Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I'm Nikki and I have ADHD. Joy is autistic and we are letting our hyper fixations fly. Today we are fixating on the Kennedy curse.
Speaker: Hello again, everybody. Welcome back for what I think might be our final episode about JFK. i think so too. Here's the biggie. Yes. Yeah. I think we are, I always say, I think like I'm, you know, I'm, I know, i know we're going to talk about kind of, i think theories and I know I did it again.
Speaker: I'm so sorry guys. I'm so tired. We are going to talk about our theories and what we think happened. And I'm saying it confidently. You're a strong, independent woman.
Speaker: i' convinced I'm so tired. I'm so tired. Well, I will confidently say, as always, the sources are in the show notes. All right. so ah Do you want to start? You want to like me to start? First of all, I want to say like, again, at the beginning, I really thought we'd be able to have these great theories wrapped up in nice little packages and understand, especially after all the research we've done, what happened.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, it's not that easy. No, it's not. Yours is a little more. You have a little bit. my i've I'm more confident okay in the presentation I'm going to give. I am not. um and Which is fair, but especially based on last week's episode when you presented this you know course you listened to. i can definitely see how that adds more, not confusion, but just more nuance.
Speaker: Yeah, you know, like when the entire world order played a role in the... you and It gets little, know... Killing a single man. Yeah. It's a little complicated. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think mine's pretty straightforward. up So I will say, I, a lot of my research for the JFK episodes came from the podcast, Last Podcast on the Left.
Speaker: I do not recommend that my sweet Aunt Joy listens to Last Podcast on the Left because they're very inappropriate. And I think you would be, you just go, oh my...
Speaker: Oh my, I'm not that much of a stick in the mouth. you're not at all, but they're a lot. um But some of the best researched podcasts I've ever found, they're so smart. They're detailed. They are...
Speaker: confirming source after source after source. So I trust the research that went into their episodes. So this theory is actually stems from their episodes where this was their ultimate theory.
Speaker: And the reason I adopted it is because that felt the most compelling to me. That felt like the most, even Occam's razor to me in all of this research. Um,
Speaker: So I just, I'm going caveat that with I am taking basically last podcast on the last theory. You go first because mine's a little bit more individual thoughts than. Okay.
Speaker: So I think JFK was killed in the world's biggest workplace accident, the world's most ah seen workplace accident. All right, let's go. Ballistics expert Howard Donahue was once asked by CBS, along with 10 other ah certain different kind of experts, to participate in a recreation of the assassination. Then this expert, Donahue, was asked to write an article for a men's magazine that justified the ballistic evidence that was presented in the Warren Report.
Speaker: He couldn't do that. He said that shot number three did not make sense. He said the third shot exploded. It did not go through the body like the first and second ones did.
Speaker: The first two bullets were full metal jacket bullets, which, listen, I'm shaking this guy's word for it because I know nothing about bullets or weapons or anything, but apparently full metal jackets are designed to wound and not kill.
Speaker: The third shot was a frangible bullet, which, which are a type of bullet that are designed upon impact to shatter to cause as much damage inside a body as possible.
Speaker: Donahue also said that the trajectory from the book depository would have been wrong for that third shot as well. He concluded that the first two were definitely from Oswald, but the third shot had come from somewhere else.
Speaker: So in the book depository, there were three shell casings found, but one was bent and found in a different spot. That casing may have been a chamber plug, which is basically like a spent casing used to prevent jams in the chamber of a gun.
Speaker: It's something like Oswald would have had to eject that shell before before taking the spot to shoot. So that would explain why three casings were found in the book depository. He would have had to expel that, like, whatever, chamber plug.
Speaker: And he would have done that before walking up to the window. Donahue deduced that the fatal shot could have only come from the left rear seat of the Secret Service car that was behind the limo.
Speaker: So from the article, Gunwoosh... This is an intense article I read. It's called Gunshot Wound Dynamics Model for John F. Kennedy Assassination by Nicholas R. Nolley from the National Library of Medicine. Concise.
Speaker: Yes. So I did a little side. This is just a side note. So Dr. Nolley is a scientific officer at the Department of Defense. ah But so he got his bachelor's and master's from SUNY Oneonta, which is like in my area.
Speaker: And he got his master's and PhD from the unity University of Wisconsin-Madison. I just thought it was funny. are We have family in Wisconsin. Yeah. so But unrelated, just me being ADHD. So I'm going to read this quote from this article.
Speaker: Quote, it is therefore found that the observed motions of President Kennedy in the film, the film is the the Zapruder film, are physically consistent with a high-speed projectile impact from the rear of the motorcade.
Speaker: These resulting from an instantaneous forward impulse force followed by a delayed rearward recoil and neuromuscular forces.
Speaker: So let's talk about the recoil or the jet effect. Oh, goodness. So right now we're we're thinking, you know if we're following this, the shot had to come from directly from that spot in the vehicle behind the motorcade, behind the limo where Jack was.
Speaker: so Okay, wait. So the kill shot, the head shot. Yep. Yep. So what you've talked about a lot is the video looks like the shot came from the front. yeah So we're just, we're like suspending that for a minute and saying it came from behind.
Speaker: And this is the effect that, Basically, the brain matter would have had. Okay. In the video when it or in the film when it looks like it's going frontward.
Speaker: and Okay. So the recoil or jet effect... this gets like very physics-y also. I did not. This article had like equations and like things like that.
Speaker: Isn't math your thing? Oh gosh. How about I link it in the show notes? So this is talking about if the shot came from behind, what JFK's body and what the brain matter would have done. So this gets like a little graphic, but, um, so based on this type of bullet and the location of the alleged shooter, the recoil effect would have been about twice the initial velocity of the bullet, basically meaning that
Speaker: the forward motion of JFK would have taken like the entire velocity of the bullet and it would have pushed him forward at first, but that's the energy transfer going through of the bullet going through brain. Okay.
Speaker: Slowed the bullet enough that he snapped back. So the forward head snap was due to the force of the gunshot resulting in a quote directional explosion of the mass caused by a kinetic energy of high speed projectile.
Speaker: And this initiated the tragic final backward lurch of the president. So the bullet goes through the back of his head and pushes him forward. The matter coming out is at twice the velocity and that's the snapback.
Speaker: So in addition, you see him like contract. Like you see he's very like stiff when this happens. This article says that neuromuscular spasms are a common result of a traumatic brain injury.
Speaker: But you would see that in theory. You would see something contract in his back. But because the that back brace he wore, it wouldn't have been evident on the film to see like any sort of back contractions because it was covered by like I'll get into the back brace. It's like a wild thing he wore all the time. So this article's final determination is that the shot could not have come from the front.
Speaker: One witness actually reported seeing a shot from this vehicle that was directly behind them, but assumed that the person was shooting at what they believed was the sniper. Many witnesses reported the smell of gunpowder at street level.
Speaker: And there was a photo, allegedly, I've never, I have can't, I didn't see this photo, but there is allegedly a photo of an agent holding an AR-15, which was brand new weapon technology. And this agent was in the seat that it's proposed that the shot had to come from.
Speaker: Witnesses said that this agent like swung somehow, hit this weapon in like a panic motion. right, we're going to pivot slightly to talk about the back brace and all the back issues because that plays a part in it.
Speaker: Spinal neurosurgeon Dr. Thomas Pate and neurosurgeon Dr. Justin Dousey co-authored a paper in 2017 about Jack's basically constant pain and failed back surgeries.
Speaker: Jack, especially when he was like in public making, you know, because he always had to do that Kennedy display of masculinity and power and strength and everything's fine. There's no pain. Everything's perfect. And look how brave I am.
Speaker: He wore a tightly laced back brace. And in addition to that, he had a wide ace bandage he would wear and wrap around the brace. The corset sat around like his hips to hit like lower to like starting to the upper back with that big ace bandage like wrapped around him in a figure eight.
Speaker: around his trunk. So basically he had stuff on his body from like his hips to like above his nipples. And he wore the back brace really, really tightly so he could maintain posture and look presidential.
Speaker: I might need one of those. Right? I'm like slouching talking. I'm sinking on the screen as I go. So the brace prevented him from recoiling or even dropping after the second shot.
Speaker: Which the second shot, if we remember, was the first shot to actually hit. The first shot Oswald took, he missed. The second shot was the one that hit. Like through his neck, right? Right. All right. So let's talk about the Secret Service.
Speaker: Secret Service was overworked under Jack, logging about 80 hours of overtime each month. They had worked kind of three straight days of double shifts,
Speaker: during this tour he was on. So the members of the Secret Service on November 21st went out and drank and blew off steam and partied. Seven Secret Service agents partied at a club called Cellar where they were served ever clear punch until they left at 6 a.m.
Speaker: From the 2011 documentary about the club called You Must Be Weird or You Wouldn't Be Here. Wow. Club guitar. yeah I guess this was like a big deal club. Like really, like celebrities would go if they were in the area, they would stop. It must be in Fort Worth.
Speaker: I think. Yeah. I got to see if it's still there. Cellar. Okay. So from this documentary, club guitarist Arvel Strickland said about that night, quote, I know i saw a lot of guys in suits and the party went on until after 6 a.m.
Speaker: So in 2017, after President Trump ordered the release of thousands of records related to the assassination, an FBI file was discovered with information about investigators attempting to locate stripper or dancer, we're not positive, named Kitty.
Speaker: So another stripper or dancer or whatever named Candy Cane said that this woman Kitty had some sort of relationship, like business, friendship, et cetera, with Jack Ruby and could have been a seller that night.
Speaker: for tracking we're like hammered cia overworked overtired so maybe not even hammered just like went out blew off steam had fun possibly couldn't have even been drunk but just like exhausted and overworked side note i just looked it up it is closed but it was byob what so they brought their ever clear punch yeah that was really like yeah Isn't that funny? Such a Texas thing, though. That would make it so they didn't need a liquor license. But yeah, Texas is weird about like they're dry. We have to this day, we have a fair amount of like BYOB like restaurants and stuff. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it was a late night coffee house that stayed open until 6 a.m. And it helped launch the careers of many legendary Texas musicians. It's funny is it was a kind of a beatnik thing.
Speaker: alternative kind of place. yeah She just like the secret service. yeah Must have been a lot of place. but I know. That's why, that's why this guitarist, it stood out to him so much. He's like, what are all these people in suits doing here
Speaker: here? Okay, sorry. Like, you get back on track. Okay. So a junior agent named George Hickey, who had been hired only four months earlier as the guy who did daily maintenance on the president's cars, he decided to stay in that night.
Speaker: So it was decided because every other senior member was hungover or just exhausted and had gone out too late. that Hickey would be the guy to hold the new AR-15 during the motorcade.
Speaker: Oh, wow. That's an interesting way to decide. Uh-huh. So the Warren report concluded that the cellar visit happened, but the Warren report said it did not affect their performance during the assassination.
Speaker: And they determined this because four agents assigned to ride behind Kennedy show up on time and ready to work. They could have said they didn't buy a single drink. Yeah. Yeah. Right. They just brought their own punch. See?
Speaker: Yeah. Not lying. So later, Hickey's statement was that he, he made a statement that he had stood up and cocked the weapon after that third shot was fired.
Speaker: But another agent reported that the weapon had been like loaded and ready to fire the whole time, but the safety was on. um Hickey said that he held this position, like aimed and ready to fire position as the car hauled ass to Parkland Hospital.
Speaker: never fired. That's what that's what Hickey said. Witnesses and other agents saw Hickey holding the gun before the third shot. They said he stood up with the rifle, but immediately fell backwards when the car started going faster.
Speaker: So he could have heard that first shot, grabbed the rifle, stood up, disengaged the safety. The car then lurched forward after the second shot, causing him to fall back and the gun to accidentally discharge.
Speaker: This to have to have happened, the cover-up started with the autopsy. An independent autopsy could not be done in Texas. So as we talked about, the president's body was taken to Bethesda for the official autopsy. It was a military hospital, I think. I can't remember.
Speaker: But it was said that Jackie had wanted the autopsy performed there, and they... they um accepted her wishes and had the body taken there. 30 people were present for this autopsy.
Speaker: In 1995, one of the medical examiners testified that Jack's head was full of exploded bullet fragments, but this medical examiner was told to stay quiet.
Speaker: He said he was instructed to manufacture an x-ray that made it appear that the fragments came from a full metal jacket bullet, not the frangible one. 40 rolls of film were taken during the autopsy, but FBI records confirmed that Roy Kellerman confiscated all of them.
Speaker: Also, to this day, the brain's missing. it It disappeared after the autopsy. ah And the brain would have had exploded bullet fragments in it because nobody's going even for a cover-up this big, nobody's going to take a brain home and, like, pick out the bullet fragments.
Speaker: I'm sorry. This is really dark to be giggling at.
Speaker: So what the government didn't account for was Jack Ruby, who, by killing their fall guy, kicked off decades of mystery. the Warren Commission would have purposely steered the investigation away from one of their own people doing it. It was an incredibly delicate time in the Cold War, and the Soviet Union could have used this to say, like, they killed their own president.
Speaker: but no um It would have been a public relations nightmare that was avoidable because they already had Oswald, who would still be responsible even if everything somehow came out.
Speaker: So this person we spoke about in the beginning, Donahue, who was involved in this, I think it was 1995 reenactment, released his findings in 1977, 1992, and 2014. But it was all largely ignored because there are so many theories in the ether that they just chalked it up to like, yeah, a crazy guy thinks this.
Speaker: So that's what I think. I think it was... a horrific workplace accident that then got covered up because the Soviets would have used it against us. Okay.
Speaker: So my question here is though, so Lee Harvey Oswald was still involved. What do we think his motive was So if I'm, I think, It was almost like the lone gunman thing.
Speaker: It could have been. But it could have Who knows? It could have been more than that. I think um he hated Jack. And, you know, if we believe he was pro-communism, pro-Castro, like he could have had all those motives. It basically could have been anything. Right. He could have very well been a puppet of the CIA and it went wrong. And when this agent Hickey then ended up doing this horrific, like having this horrific accident happen, they were like, well, no harm, no foul. like
Speaker: Oswald's still the fall guy. And everything had to be, and yeah everything had to be covered up. Yeah. So I don't, I, if this theory, like Oswald's motives not,
Speaker: Super important. Not relevant. So that's what I think. Okay. Well, mine's kind of the opposite because mine are just, I don't have an overall, I don't have an overall theory. i have thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah. these are just my final thoughts. I 100% believe there's more than one shooter. And like reason to me, it's just obvious looking at the film and logic that there was no way a guy got off that many shots with that quality of rifle in that amount of time.
Speaker: Period. Like, it's just, to me, yeah I just don't get it. I just don't see it. I also think that, And i you know I'm bringing physics into this, but... I didn't mean to. It was so hard. I know. No.
Speaker: Mine's just that, like, here's here's the Occam's razor here. i My part. ah To me, it's just obvious. And it came... to like this is He s snapped backwards because a bullet came from the front. I...
Speaker: I don't have calculations, but it really just seems to me like that's where would be. But, and so then that means the kill shot would not have come from behind, which is where Oswald was.
Speaker: And we can't know for sure, but I mean, the grassy knoll just makes sense. I mean, in aip yeah like it just makes sense where a shot would come. Those my thoughts. There, okay. Okay. I think Oswald was a very interesting person.
Speaker: um yeah I think that he was working for US intelligence in some cap capacity at some time. I don't think he like truly defected to Russia. I think he was, I don't know, through the military. i don't know.
Speaker: But that he was he went there. like he was And again, a lot of that has to do with... like What? How did he learn Russian? Like, I mean, I think he was. Yeah. I think he was somehow trained and somehow and they call them dangles, by the way, um sent to Russia, um like to try to be intelligence. And then like he didn't, and he just wasn't. He, he thought very highly of himself and then when, and wasn't able to measure up frequently. Yeah.
Speaker: So that would maybe make sense me. Yeah, I mean, i but i do I don't think it was just like this guy defected and then righti then the was like, oh, right, come back.
Speaker: Bring your wife, you know? like So, and I think all those like friends and contacts, so when he came back to the U.S. and there there was all these people kind of around him, which like or his good friends, like, root or that like, jumped into his life. I don't know. Yeah. I think they were, like intelligence assets, too.
Speaker: But I don't know necessarily who they all were working for. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've said for quite a bit throughout, like, this series within a series that every agency and every person within every agency...
Speaker: had a reason for what they did. So I think it's because of that, it would be impossible to know who like is pulling the strings ultimately or who Oswald was even working with for sure.
Speaker: You know? No. Yeah. I mean, or who we'll get into this a little bit more who were following him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just don't think all these people like jumped into his life and helped him all the, like out of the altruistic goodness of their heart. Yeah.
Speaker: And all spoke Russian. I will say, I do think, I do think there were a number of people who did help Marina for good reasons that were likely not related to well, were related to her husband in so much of like she needed some protection from him. I do think that there were people in her life, not everybody though. Like I think there are some people who are maybe doing two things. Yeah. I mean, cause there's also reasons for like her like intelligence. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Following her. Yeah. And I wish I could say, like, I have it. I know my, all these thoughts are not specific, and but I don't, I think we'll never know. Yeah, I agree. um I think Oswald did fire shots, um but I just don't think there's any way, like, with his weapon and his level of skill that he could have shot with the accuracy required. Yeah. so I mean, I'm not, but i think that first one probably that went off and hit the, like, road, I think they'll ten that's him. That's what was just going to say. Yeah. I mean, i and maybe the ah second one, I don't think, i just don't see that kill shot to the head. Like that just seems like, because assassin, like that just, if we go back to his military career, he was like, he got the title of like, i don't even remember, like super marksman. Super marksman. That's what I said. um But that was average for where he was,
Speaker: in the military. Like that was, that didn't mean he was an incredible shot. That meant he was an average shot for where like the people he was surrounded by. and that was with a military grade weapon. This is like, this thing was like less than $20 on the, out always so I always say on the internet, but. From the back of the magazine, from the old timey internet. I mean, I just think that that comes into play a lot, but I just think that that catch that kill shot from the head was like somebody who was a sniper and trained. but um All right. So what else do I think? I just think the whole magic bullet theory is crazy. Yeah. I just think there's just no way one bullet caused seven different, like had seven different entry or exit points on two different people, then showed up on a gurney in the hospital in nearly pristine condition. There's just nothing about that that just makes sense to me. No.
Speaker: I don't think Oswald was a communist sympathizer um or truly interested in the pro Cuba freedom movement. I don't know exactly what was there, but I just don't think that that's.
Speaker: And for me, what like my thought about it is I agree with that. I think he was a button pusher. think he like being provocative and like antagonistic to people who he didn't. Like, like he felt, don't know, he felt like society had harmed him in different ways. and things didn't go how he wanted. So he blamed other people. And I feel like he was like, well, you know what I am to piss you off a communist.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I mean, and I can see all that. I just don't get, I never got the feeling that so he didn't care. That he was like, first of all, came back from Russia. Yeah. And how and again, I read Marina's, but didn't seem like he had like the greatest time or greatest life in Russia. Like I just don't quite understand why. Yeah.
Speaker: I believe after the shooting that Oswald thought somebody was going to come to his aid and he was going to be he was going to get out of being convicted for at least JFK's assassination. I fully believe that, too.
Speaker: I'm not sure about Officer Tippett's, though. Yeah, I'm not sure either. um I also am not sure if that was a delusion he had or if there was validity to it.
Speaker: You know what i mean? Yeah. Yeah. No, I see that. But but he wasn't – he was confident about something while he – that – Yeah. He didn't – I don't know.
Speaker: He was confident about something and he was surprised. yeah I think he was truly surprised that he was – that they said he assassinated JFK. but not Tippett. So I don't know.
Speaker: i and so, and I also think that possibly Tippett was sent to kill him. I mean, I don't think whoever tried to kill him, I think either they thought he'd be killed at the site of like when he was,
Speaker: you know, on scene. And then second line, I think Tippett's probably sent to kill him. And Oswald maybe did like shoot and kill him. Shoot first. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't, but I do think that Tippett's really, I, that's a really weird part of the story that I agree. Yeah. not And didn't really, haven't heard any really good theories. I make a lot of sense to me, but um I think he was a patsy, but for whom I'm not sure.
Speaker: Yeah. I think he was, so I think he was at least maybe a CIA asset, but at a minimum, he was under c CIA surveillance. And he had been so beno for many years. yeah And this is, and honestly, actually, this has been shown in later. So that part of the reason for the coverup and the quick story and bringing the investigation in the end and the story that was fed to the public, um that he was a drainge lone gunman.
Speaker: Like, if he was being followed by the CIA, that would have been pretty bad, too. So even if he was, a you know, just a crazy lone gunman, um just, yeah, who was being followed by the CIA, then you'd think they would have stopped this from happening. yeah So, you know, he could have either. And I think...
Speaker: He could have been in the CIA too, but but one way or another, he was there was a tie. I think the CIA is so tied in with the mafia and other subversive individuals as informants that it can be hard to distinguish loyalties and the truth um of the information that's attained because of mixed loyalties, personal gains to be had, like pardons, clemency, and information.
Speaker: So again, like this is not necessarily like my theory of exactly what happened, but this is why I feel like I came away with all this research and yeah and I think that very much holds through you know, it comes through today, if not worse. But um I think the quick PR activities and the appointment of the Warren Commission, i think the Warren Commission was biased and knew the outcome beforehand. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: But I do think that that was like to prevent. I mean, I do think there was some genuinely preventing. We need to prevent another world war. Yeah. And Again, I'm like, I'm not a LBJ defender.
Speaker: But I mean, I do see the logic behind, you know, no World War III. Yeah, whatever. no i I mean, I do get that. And actually, this is part. So the information that was released in March of 2025. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: We talked about like we didn't learn a whole lot. It was supposed to be like the answer to everything and we did not hurt hear a lot. But one thing we did learn was that there were long secret documents that revealed that three CIA officials, and they were main official. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't put down their names. So, but they lied to investigators and they, and the Warren commission and that Oswald was being prosecuted.
Speaker: tracked um for many years um and at least since 1930 or 59 and that his letters were being intercepted always yeah since the since the late 50s so there was something yeah there was something there that um so i i do think a big possibility is that he was under strict surveillance and they let this happen and that looked bad so um I kind of said before, like, I think people in his orbit in the U.S. were involved in intelligence. Don't know for sure what side, but like Ruth Payne, um that George Warren Schultz. Yep. George M. George M., yeah. And George Johnides. I mean, I do think there was, ah again, there was just some weird, I don't know how. i don't know. They talk about some things, talk about it being handlers. I'm not sure how, but they they there was something. um I do think Oswald went to the Texas theater after the shooting, expecting to meet up with someone specific, maybe CIA. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know who. I think that's part of whoever he thought was going to get him out of this. Okay. But I don't think he like just ran in a theater to hide. Yeah. I mean, I think there was a reason he went there. Right. Okay. um I think, I mean, Jack Rudy's a bit of an enigma, but I do, I mean, i definitely think he was directed to kill Oswald to keep him quiet. That's simple, right? i Not sure by who, um but I do believe he was blackmailed or threatened to do so.
Speaker: yeah yeah i don't think he did it so that jackie wouldn't be upset i mean yeah i was gonna say that's like a very like that's on paper a very sweet motive for murder but i just don't get i don't get that from from jack ruby but well i actually do a bit like that could have been well here's the like because he took care of his women employees so well and like care like he looked out for them and stuff like that like i could see him having a soft spot for jackie but also being completely in the mafia i mean and i right jeez i'm usually the optimist and you're the cynic look at us must be i wasn't gonna say like i don't think that's why he did it i think what like in his brain he was just like you know i do feel bad for her and like you know i'll say that's why i did it yeah you know what i mean like yeah He could have like genuinely felt bad for her and then was like, that seems like a great motive.
Speaker: No, I can see that. um and ah then just kind of some broader things. I don't think we'll ever know the truth. yeah i think it's a combination of many theories. I think there was tons of different groups that were involved. They kept them highly highly compartmentalized.
Speaker: um I don't think there was like one overall plan that a whole bunch of people knew. And so I think like conspiracy skeptics make this argument that if so many more people were involved, it would have come out by now.
Speaker: I don't think that's exactly through. I think it's like bits and pieces. Like it wasn't like somebody said, i mean, there's a few people who knew, okay, we're, I mean, obviously the assassin. um And i I don't, I mean, I do think Lee Oswald, I don't exactly get why, but he was involved. But I don't think like the police were in like in a direct cover-up like they're like okay this is this big thing that's happening you're a piece of it right yeah i think there's different ways of getting things done and giving direction and without people even knowing like like the secret service and backing off not giving kennedy space and then being told this is direct direct um direction directly from kennedy well
Speaker: I mean, you know, there's things that could have been done that um behind the scenes that, yeah, i that contributed, but people didn't even realize they were contributing. Yeah.
Speaker: It's like i I always go back to the Secret Service, ah like, hosing down the car. Yeah. i don't I don't think there was a nefarious motive behind that.
Speaker: I think it was used. Right. to build a nefarious motive. Like, yeah. mean, some stuff, yeah, it's just like, I didn't know what to do and, don't know. Yeah.
Speaker: But then somebody, a different yeah person or entity or whatever, sees that and is like, All right, well, because they did that, this will help with this thing. And there were some covering people's, covering, there were mistakes made in covering butts, too. Oh, for sure.
Speaker: So I think the mob, the CIA, the Cuban dissidents, the FBI, the local officials, I think everyone played a role. I don't even think they necessarily knew what their role was. Yeah. um Yes. Yeah. They all found a benefit, and they at the very least. But I don't think that they knew exactly what they I don't think they all but went, oh, we're going to go kill the president. You know, like I think that there was, know. Send one delegate from each. Yeah. Like, I don't think it was, I don't think it was quite like that.
Speaker: I have learned, again, takeaway, that it is easy to conduct, air quotes, investigations and just disclose the pieces of evidence that Like for whatever narrative you're pushing.
Speaker: And know like it that fully didn't like click in me that, you know, they give these pieces of evidence about this one person saw this. And well, I mean, there was hundreds of police officers out there investigating.
Speaker: You can find this It doesn't mean that they were covering up or lying or making things up. But I mean, you have ah tons of witnesses like you and you pick. i mean, ultimately, not not the police officers themselves, but whatever the Warren Commission or whoever's they're picking and choosing what pieces of evidence they bring forward. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And again, i i life lesson but I see today now more clearly. The biggest thing i think that I got is that the history we learn is a narrative fed to us and that we're programmed to believe it as fact.
Speaker: And... it makes me think about like Robert Maxwell, you know, like Jillian, Jillian Maxwell's father from Epstein, and all that owning companies that published school textbooks. Yep.
Speaker: And, and he owned it like, uh, he also, it's not talked about as much, but scientific journals. Yeah. He like changed how scientific journals were yeah worked and were purchased. And when they were distributed and they, and that that was eye-opening to me. Yeah. um When you, and and even more so with like um AI now, like chat GPT and stuff. And you put in what happened to Kennedy and it it gives you the exact, you know, play-by-play of what we learned. That is yeah um what happened.
Speaker: No, you know what I mean? i didn't So i that has opened my eyes more. Yeah. Because if you, like my, my, other side to side gig I do is I run a banned book Instagram and book bannings and book challenges are never like, they'll say it's like, well, this book is too sexual or this book has like profanity, but it's like ultimately banning and challenging any sort of media is controlling ideas. And whoever is the person in power who can say what is right and what is wrong is the information we get. And now it's even more targeted, right? Like now we have this sophistication to target in specific information ah um and news to different groups.
Speaker: Yep. Critical race theory. Yeah. like books about critical – well, not even about books that can be linked to the idea of critical race theory are being removed. And what that really is is just erasing history. Right.
Speaker: And erasing – Parts of history. The parts of history you want erased. Right. Yeah. And, you know, like at some level I understood this, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this really reinforced it and made me think about it in different way.
Speaker: Yeah. People – empower, get to decide how we learn huh history. And maybe I was more optimistic and believing it was Yeah. Always true. I mean, that it was, i was more like, not in our country. You know, in our country, it's not. I think that yeah that was part of it. It was a little bit more naive before this. um And then I guess my final takeaway is once an initial narrative is presented to the public, it's just nearly impossible to like reel it back in. Yep.
Speaker: And And then that's exactly what happened. And, and don't know if it was easier or harder. i mean, it must've been even easier in those days, right? Cause you have three news stations and yeah one newspaper and like this is what happened. And,
Speaker: And people didn't have, i mean, ways to research. and um And then this makes me think about like the Mueller report um of trump Trump collusion with Russia and how quickly the attorney general, Bill Barr, just presented it to the public immediately um and pick and chose the parts that supported the conclusion he wanted the public to buy into. And then that was that was the narrative.
Speaker: And once it was out there, it's very hard to change. Yeah. you know Bits and pieces, people research, they're skeptics, there's all that. But in general, general society, it's it's the world.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. so so but So my theory in the end is very, I guess I didn't walk away with a theory. I walked away with learning and reinforcing some different things. And actually a lot, like most of what you said could go with what I think happened too. Yep. Which I actually think like they build on one another.
Speaker: I think more than anything, i don't think it was one thing. Yeah. I think it was a whole bunch of things. I think that's the perfect way to say it. I i don't. I think a whole, but and I really do believe the mob, the CIA, the FBI, I think that they all were involved. The Secret Service.
Speaker: How? I don't exactly know. Yeah. I don't think there's ah one group to blame. I think there's a whole bunch of different groups who did that. Yeah. And there's probably a small group at the top. I also kind of think there's like some.
Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I believe that there's some group of elites at the top. Know everything. Like know all the secrets. but then at the same time, like you say, i i believe that more now than I would have five years ago. Right.
Speaker: Right. That doesn't seem crazy. Yeah. And the other thing is like, think looking at the other presidential assassination we covered, which was Garfield.
Speaker: And I know it was hundreds of years before, but that's so straightforward. There was no deviation in what happened. Yeah. And add, but that was because there was no secret service. There was no CIA. There was no FBI. There was none. Like he was just like walking through a train station by himself. Like how the more and more complex the world gets, things like this are more and more.
Speaker: Harry, like harder to untangle. But on the flip side, on like on the flip side, I also would say I'm trying to make it trying to find this positive feeling of, you know what? All this craziness and fraud and secrets and it's been going on forever.
Speaker: And I've lived forever. fine and so maybe everything that's going on now we just know about more or we hear about more but it's always been there and so maybe it's not as bad i don't know because because because a lot of people have not been fine i i'm trying but i'm also very disillusioned in the past few years so i'm just like everything's bad Oh, yeah, I know.
Speaker: No, I'm 100%, but maybe it makes me think I've been disillusioned for throughout history. And so maybe maybe we'll get to the end of this cycle soon.
Speaker: I don't know. I mean, I hope that, I mean, I like to believe the pendulum swings and, yeah and so you know, integrity is back in style. Like real. But but what we learned, I think, has always been an issue.
Speaker: Yeah. I don't know. It was, I got a lot out of this. Yeah. I, I feel like fun is the wrong word, but I really liked doing ae the assassination.
Speaker: So we're sorry if you all are sick of hearing about giant conspiracy theory, but hope that you guys got something from it. And I hope we presented it a little bit in different way that, um yeah. So we are officially moving on to a new family member. We'll talk about it.
Speaker: who we Who do we have next? Bobby Kennedy. a lot about Ethel as well. So we're even we're going talking family stuff. And then we'll again get into his assassination,
Speaker: um which I actually like I think is a little more interesting even. o i think it's less. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out once. OK, yeah.
Speaker: It's not as like, I don't think it'll be, it won't be nearly as long, but I don't think we'll be on Bobby Kennedy for weeks and weeks and weeks at all. And I will not go to the shooting site and the museum and Ruth Payne's house this time. And I won't learn. a i well I may take a college course. I was going to say, you really enjoyed that. You would just probably do it for fun. Not even for the podcast. Yeah.
Speaker: all right Right. Wrapping it up. Yeah. So we will ah see you guys next week talking about Bobby Kennedy. And yeah, we'll keep moving on from there. I think after we finish up Bobby, we'll go to Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick and all that.
Speaker: Nice. So yeah. all right. Well, thanks everybody. Bye. ie
