Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The JYPSI Spirit with Raj Alva & Ari Sussman (TCGS S4 E1 Video Version)
0 Plays2 seconds ago
VIDEO VERSION
On this episode of THE COCKTAIL GURU SHOW, the premiere installment of Season 4, hosts Jonathan & Jeffrey Pogash deep-dive the whiskey world with serial entrepreneur Raj Alva and veteran whiskey maker Ari Sussman, who, together with country music superstar Eric Church, founded JYPSI Whiskey. Watch, listen, and learn how this team of unlikely partners launched a new whiskey brand, formulated an innovative whiskey-making process—including some unique aging techniques—and mastered the art and science of blending whiskeys from across the globe. Plust, enjoy a taste of the fascinating history of punch—it hasn't always been a syrupy concoction served as children's birthday parties—in Papa Pogash's "Cocktail Commentary."
THE COCKTAIL GURU SHOW is produced by 1st Reel Entertainment and distributed by EatsDrinksTV, a service of the Center for Culinary Culture—Home of The Cocktail Collection, and is available wherever you enjoy your favorite shows.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Hospitality Trends
00:00:03
Speaker
Jonathan Pogash is the cocktail guru, a mixologist and hospitality expert. Ah, see? You know big words. Dude, I'm the cocktail guru. Cheers. Jeffrey's his dad, a wine and spirits author, historian, and consultant. Oh, I do my homework.
00:00:20
Speaker
With decades of experience, they're always looking for the next big thing. Join this father and son duo for a few laughs as they explore the hottest trends in hospitality with the service industry's leading trailblazers and tastemakers. Welcome to The Cocktail Guru Show.
Stories from Aspen: The Cowboy Hat Experience
00:00:38
Speaker
Hi, Dad. I really like the cowboy hat there. Well, thanks, John. this is i havet I've been waiting for an excuse to wear this hat. you know I've had this for probably 20 years and it's yeah brand new because I never wear it. never that Is that the one that you got? in um Did you get that in Colorado? Aspen, aspen Colorado at the famous match shop in Aspen. Yeah.
00:01:03
Speaker
and this Yeah, it's a very impressive hat shop. and they did probably got it well You were working for a brand at that point, so you didn't have to pay for it, but I believe those are a gazillion, gajillion dollars. I was working for an importer at the time, who shall remain nameless, although I love the company dearly. and The head of the colorado state the state manager for Colorado decided he was going to buy, with his budget, buy
00:01:35
Speaker
hats for every member of the team. There were, oh gosh, I don't know. There had to be like 60 or 70 of us there. Maybe, maybe even a few more. Those were the days. And he, he said, he sent a message and said, just go to the hat shop, you know, have your head measured and put, have them put a brand on the hat with your initials and it's on me. Wow.
00:01:59
Speaker
And we did, we all did that, we all walked, that's so he could, we could distinguish ourselves from all the other people walking around the Aspen Food and Wine Festival. And all of course shortly after that event, a new president came onto the company.
00:02:19
Speaker
And he didn't really appreciate that particular purchase of hats. Right, so they but they put ah they put the kibosh on the um those freebies. But if speaking of hats, do you see my hat? I do.
00:02:33
Speaker
I do see your hand.
Merchandise Highlights: From Caps to Yiddish Items
00:02:35
Speaker
It's a cocktail guru baseball cap, which is, ah believe it or not, by happenstance available on our shop at thecocktailguru.com. So it's never too early ah for holiday holiday gifts or post-holiday gifts. It's part of the cocktail guru schmice. The Schmice, yes. yeah yeah yeah yeah That's yiddish and that Yiddish for like... um Well, like stuff. Novelsy, novelty items or a.
Wanderlust and Whiskey
00:03:06
Speaker
But, but, but, but it's not, yeah it's not free. And it also, Schweiz kind of, um, to me feels like it's not useful stuff. Oh, no, no, not at all. Schmeiss can be very useful. So the reason, the reason I'm wearing my hat today is because why we all have a little wanderlust in us. Do we not? We all have a little.
00:03:30
Speaker
Gypsy, a little gypsy in us. yes And that sense of adventure, that sense of spirit, the sense of exploration is something that I love and cherish. And that's why I'm thrilled that we're having this particular episode today featuring whiskey, gypsy.
Meet Raj and Ari: Whiskey Gypsy Collaboration
00:03:52
Speaker
Very exciting.
00:03:54
Speaker
Hello, we have our special guests, Raj and Ari. Hey. Two very special guests, including Raj, who is the co-founder of this entire company and whiskey making endeavor.
00:04:10
Speaker
And Ari, who is the whiskey maker for Gypsy Whiskey, or Whiskey Gypsy, whichever way you want to call it. And both are distinguished guests, and we're thrilled to have you on board. And we welcome you to the Cocktail Guru Show. Thank you, Joe. We appreciate it. Thank you for having us. You're welcome. This is an incredible project.
00:04:37
Speaker
with a fellow that most people out there probably know very well, Eric Church, the country singer, songwriter, incredible guy. I've been listening to his music for a very long time and love him. And now the two of you and Eric Church are involved in this very interesting innovative whiskey
The Journey to Whiskey Gypsy
00:05:02
Speaker
making project. Can you tell us something about this? how it be before hold Hold on one second hold down one second. I just want to say that um I don't know if I ever met Eric, ah but
00:05:16
Speaker
I was working on Kenny Chesney's Rum when- Blue Chair. Yep, Blue Chair Bay. So I was their initial um master mixologist. And so I went on a couple of tour dates but with the whole gang. um And I believe it must have been Country Fest in New England at but um um the Patriots Stadium, ah where I believe Eric Church plays that um a venue as well. so um There's a little connection that was years ago, that was almost 10 years ago. Well, it's funny you say that there's actually a connection with Kenny and why we're in this. So I'm happy to tell you how this all started. If that's, worry yes please, sure. So, um, so I met Eric on a, uh, on a golf trip that a mutual friend of ours organized and
00:06:05
Speaker
um I, Jeffrey, unlike you, didn't listen to country music. I did as a kid. My, you know, father would play Johnny Cash and some other music, and we actually watched Hee Haw, which I think everybody watched back then. But for whatever reason, I moved, you know, musical genres. The 80s kind of killed my musical taste, I guess. And ah didn't didn't really know who he was, but my friend kept insisting he's a big music star, yeah. Big big star. and ah So we we went on this trip and I just treat him like anybody else and he's just a very solid human being. He's just a good guy and we had a great time. We bonded and over a lot of ah late night drinking and we were kind of picking each other's brains on our different careers and how he got to where he was, how I got to where I was and we started talking about
00:06:55
Speaker
um ah my businesses, and then I started asking him about whiskey and because he's mentioning the Jack Daniels partnership. And he said, I'm the only the second person ever to have my name on a bottle. Frank Sinatra was the first. And um i this is another trip, but I said, um ah well, out of curiosity, yeah did you ever think of doing your own brand? And he said, yeah, it's really funny you say that. George Strait and Kenny Chesney keep telling me I should do this. And yeah they've been really pushing me to start my own brand. And I said, he said, what do you know about? I said, I don't really know a lot. I mean, I know the products that I like. Um, but I said, I've got a good buddy named Joe Magliocco owns mixtures. Let me text him and see if he can give us some ideas. And so I texted him. He called back in 15 seconds and I talked to him for about an hour.
00:07:45
Speaker
And his advice was, don't do it. It's a very tough... Oh, really? yeah well i mean it's It was good advice. It's good solid advice. It was good advice. This is a very, very hard business to break into. And i yeah you look at the the systems kind of stacked against small producers in terms of the three tier system. It's very hard for to break into this. so But after a while, I just kept picking Joe's brain. I realized I knew some folks who were the ex-chairman of the high west, and I just kept calling some people. And I didn't think anything of it. Eric called me after the trip a couple of times, and then my friend kept pestering me. I was at a little league game. He said, hey, did you call Eric yet? I said, no, I haven't. He said, well, he's really interested in learning and looking at this. And so
00:08:32
Speaker
I finally called him and he said, what do you think? Should we do this? I said, but I don't know enough. Let me do more research. And that's when I started calling some of these folks up. And I took about three months, almost six months. And yeah I realized a couple of things. One was there's a ton of celebrity spirits, not just in whiskey, but across the across the spectrum. And the ones that failed were ones that basically they just took the person's name and slapped it on a bottle and yeah that person disappeared and they're just getting a percentage so they don't care.
00:09:02
Speaker
And I said, if we're going to do this, you know we got we got to do a couple of things. One, we have to really, it can't be you.
Innovations in Whiskey Branding
00:09:08
Speaker
It can't be you on the ball. And he 100% agreed. He didn't want it to be about him. And two, we got to make sure we make the best product we can make. I don't want to go in with a Me Too product and and try to convince people they should buy this. I said, we should go in at premium because that's going to give us the most ability to really differentiate ourselves. And and it has yeah the least amount of competition.
00:09:32
Speaker
And so we fast forward another three months, and he was getting kind of pissed at me. He said, what takes you so damn long? I said, well, I said, Eric, I don't think you realize how much money this is going to take to do this right. And and so we we I found a ah general manager, Andrea Myers. She had worked at at Heaven's Door and Angel's Envy. And then I really was looking for a master distiller, master blender, and and I had interviewed a lot of household names that you would know. And it was kind of fortuitous. Somebody mentioned Ari, and I had kind of seen him in a Google search when I was looking, and I just cold called him. And ah we had an um amazing call. And it was completely different than any other call ah that I had. Ari and I kind of geeked out because I have a little bit of a science background. I was supposed to be a doctor, but and and unfortunately for my parents, they were very disappointed. I decided to go into business.
00:10:27
Speaker
And yeah that was the Indian parents that was the biggest disappointment in their lives that I didn't become a doctor. um And so we kind of geeked out on the science of making product. And yeah Ari i was talking about chemical compounds and how it can affect flavor profile. And we were talking about, well can you test it when you're making these products? And it was it was fascinating. So I called Eric up. I said, Eric, I want you to interview a couple of these folks. I'm not going to tell you which one. i i prefer, but I think you're going to be surprised." And so he called these different folks. He called me after each one and then he spoke to Ari and he's like, he's our guy. I said, you're right. That's that's the one. That's awesome. um ah Ari, when you got that call from Raj um and you had that conversation, were you like, oh no, another another celebrity brand? Here we go.
00:11:22
Speaker
um Initially, yes, that was my that that that was my initial response. I've been in a privileged position where when entrepreneurs have an idea of launching a whiskey brand, sometimes whether they're working with a recruiter or if they're doing their own due diligence to find um production partners and and whiskey makers.
00:11:40
Speaker
um I do occasionally, on occasion, get these calls, and they almost always go the same way. They sort of default to what Raj had said about, we've we've got this celebrity, they have 10 million followers, and we're going to slap their label on a bottle, and that's the concept. um and so My knee-jerk reaction always is no, um because we have a limited amount of time.
00:12:04
Speaker
and bandwidth to make things, to do things, to work with people. I'm very much of the opinion that that who we choose to work with in our lives and what we choose to do with our labor ah is is, in effect, a sacred decision of how we choose to spend our lives. And ah initially, in our conversations with Raj and I, and later on with Eric and I, it was very clear that the two of these gentlemen have a different approach to entrepreneurship, to business, to whiskey making.
00:12:34
Speaker
than just about anyone else in the industry. And that is what attracted me. And like I said, usually it's a knee jerk. No, thank you. Celebrity brands are not particularly interesting. um But their idea was not to come out with a celebrity brand at all. It was was to highlight creativity and craft and science and to find the intersection of all of these things. So like Raj said, the initial conversations with him that a lot of energy, there was a lot of overlap. um We talked about wine, we talked about science. And then Eric is a creative mastermind sort of in general, obviously with music and composition and performance, but also with entrepreneurship and business. um So the vibe was was correct from the very beginning.
00:13:20
Speaker
and And how did that sort of entrepreneurial spirit between the two of you plus Eric um kind of bring this into fruition? Raj, you know, after those conversations with Ari and then Eric said, yeah, Ari's our guy. um What were what were the next steps at that point?
Crafting with Science and Music Inspiration
00:13:40
Speaker
Uh, coming up with the concept and it took a while. I don't know how it was about a year and a half, two years before we actually launched from the time we started to the time we finished. Um, we, we went through a lot of iterations, some pretty crazy ones. If I told you, you just, ah you would laugh, um, on some of the things and they were science based, but, uh, uh, like flavored stuff.
00:14:03
Speaker
No, it was okay good i was it was actually aging in in trucks and ah because, you know, there's there's there's an argument to it because there's movement. There's heat. You drive, you know, he Eric's driving across all all over the country.
00:14:17
Speaker
little, ah little diesel penetration. Yeah, we we we worked on that too. But, um but yeah, there's this whole concept of different climates, and you know, obviously, how, how whiskey gets its flavor and its colors through heat cycling. And, you know, what's, what's a better way to have variety and heat than going across the country in different yeah know venues. And, but anyway, that was one of our many iterations. And what we what we really can't you i think you I can't remember. I think I was asking Ari about how you know why do they put all these grains in the barrel day one and age them at the same time. and yeah and We were kind of going back and forth and the light bulb hit with the team. We were like, well, let's just use single grains aged that are aged separately.
00:15:04
Speaker
and blend the master. And then we started going out and buying Ari has great connections in the, you know, in the whiskey world. And we just started buying a ton of inventory. And again, we're, we're, Eric and I are blessed to have the pocketbooks to do this where a lot of small brands I don't think do. So we were able to go out and just find things that we really liked and just buy it and keep it. So we have a massive library of ah inventory. So we came up with that concept and I'll let Ari take it from there in terms of how he he put it together because he he really created a winner on that one.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, this is actually, and one of the reasons I was so excited that we're talking with with the both of you is because Whiskey Gypsy, particularly the legacy, um the the the international cross category blended um series that we have, you have an alchemist book ah bottle with you. um that's out That's legacy volume two, the first one so was called The Journey. And the idea for um this product family really came from two sources. It came from Eric's music directly, and it came from my experience ah working at bars all over the world. So i have I've been a winemaker in France, and and i've I've also um
00:16:25
Speaker
ah worked with hospitality groups, um setting up restaurants, setting up bars, creating bar menus, ah creating wine lists. When Raj and I and Eric were having a conversation about the role grains play in mash bills, and mash bills being one of the ways that whiskey ah ah ah consumers seem to categorize a whiskey. it It started a conversation about why are you distilling all of the grains together all the time? Why are you aging all of the grains together? There is a different production style in Canada where they do distill the grains separately and then marry them um after the fact. and It reminded me of a bar that I managed where the happy hour, every day the happy hour was we would bring out. This is this is the distillers, this is the whiskey blender's main tool.
00:17:10
Speaker
in the world is ah is a fifty milliliter graduated cylinder. This is the tool of the trade for for whiskey makers and I always recommend that bartenders keep them behind the bar as well. So the happy hour at some of the bars that I managed ah where customers could come and sit at the bar and we'd give them a ah fifty milliliter graduated cylinder and they could make whatever blend of whiskey as they wanted from the back bar.
00:17:32
Speaker
they could blend rise and bourbons and single malts and Japanese together ah with the caveat that they had to write down the blend that they made in our bar book and then give flavor notes. So the concept of cross category international blending of bottle worthy spirits, which is what legacy has turned into, um really began as a happy hour special ah in bars and it became um a real magnet for other bartenders who had come to Happy Hour so that they could start blending ah products on their own, as well as whiskey connoisseurs from around the region. um So that was that was one concept. And it was also from listening to Eric's music. i like Raj wasn't familiar deeply familiar with Eric's music. I had heard a ah couple of his songs on the radio. But it was clear from the outset that Eric is a unique
00:18:26
Speaker
composer, musician, singer, songwriter, who is incorporating these musical threads from various musical traditions. So yes, there's certainly country music, and you can hear the influence of Hank William and Johnny Cash and in that entire tradition. But there's also a lot of Bob Seeger, who comes from Raj and I's neck of the woods and there's arena rock and there's elements of hip-hop and blues. And one of the things that Eric does really well is is weave together ah these different musical traditions into his own expression. So we felt like there was a cool parallel between the idea of taking whiskies from all over the world and blending them in in new styles and new ways, whiskies that had never been blended together.
00:19:08
Speaker
um certainly commercially, and in it paralleled sort of Eric's creative process. So we were able to to link Eric's creative process to our whiskey blending process. And the last step, the last kind of thing that we um were having fun with was the legacy products are all blended in the ratios of classic American ah whiskey mash bills. So the very first product we put out was a 70% essentially corn, 21% rye, 9% malted barley. So a reconstructed mash bill ah using really nice grain flavor, grain forward spirits.
The Alchemist: A Global Whiskey Vision
00:19:47
Speaker
The alchemist, which is the one you have behind you, is our riff on a 36% rye or a high rye mash bill. So it's 60%.
00:19:56
Speaker
um 11 year 18 year old rye finished in three different barrels and then four percent Indian single malt ah So again, we're we're playing with the idea of mash bill and playing with the idea of blending international whiskies from various categories and looked up to what i this look at this oh look at that the pos The alchemist hidden in a false book It's beautifully done. It looks feels like an actual book. It's beautiful. i want I want to take a quick break, and then when we come back, I'd like to taste um taste the product because, Dad, we both have some, and I'm going to taste it with you.
Whiskey Gypsy Tasting Session
00:20:39
Speaker
And then, more importantly, Raj, we when we come back from the break, we also need to know how many mulligans Eric Church has allowed um when when you play out on the um when you play a match. Okay, we'll be right back.
00:20:56
Speaker
Unleashed Coffee is a farm-to-cup adventure like no other. Step into a world where exceptional flavors, tantalizing aromas, and rich mouthfeel take you on a journey from your kitchen to the picturesque coffee plantations at origin.
00:21:11
Speaker
In Unleashed Coffee, we believe in fostering connections between coffee lovers and the hardworking farmers behind each bean. Join the journey through our coffee subscription program and gain access to our exclusive online community, connecting you to fellow enthusiasts and the producers of your morning brew. To help you extract every nuance of flavor from our beans, take part in our on-demand coffee brewing courses. right in the comfort of your own home. If you are seeking B2B coffee solutions that go beyond just beans, our comprehensive wholesale packages cater to the diverse needs of mobile carts, farm stands, restaurants, cafes, retail shelves, and more. Use coupon code GURUCOFFEE at the checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase at unleashedcoffee.com.
00:21:58
Speaker
Okay, and now we're back. um You don't have to answer the Mulligan question, but um I'd like to... It depends if he's on my team or not. Oh, right. um I'd like to ah try our Gypsy Explorer 103 proof, right? So 51.5% ABV. That's strength.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's yeah, cask strength. It has a really interesting so 66% corn, 30% rye, 4% malted barley. um And then it has a flavor profile on the back, which is I think very helpful for people. um I don't see that very often.
00:22:34
Speaker
um and distilled in Kentucky and Indiana. So, you know, you you source ah your your product from Kentucky and Indiana and then um finished blended bottled at Whiskey Gypsy in Nashville, um which I assume is where you're calling in from Ari. are you ah in a, uh, where are you right now? areri I'm in an undisclosed bunker. Uh, no, just kidding. I happen to be in a, uh, a whiskey warehouse in Michigan, but I am down at, at the whiskey gypsy barrel warehouse in Nashville very regularly. Yeah. yeah And the Explorer consists of two bourbons.
00:23:11
Speaker
aged for six years each? Correct. Yeah, that's right. In fact, it's a high-rye and ah a low-rye blended together to achieve a mid-rye profile. So it's a little different. The base spirit is a little different than most anything out there. And then it goes through a secondary agent.
00:23:33
Speaker
with wood from two different regions, from ah American oak from Appalachia and French oak from the Transe Forest. And there are varieties of American oak, depending on where the American oak grows, whether it's Missouri or the Pacific Northwest or Appalachia or Minnesota, it will have quite different characteristics. So American oak is a broad category. um Same with French oak. And so we looked at various forests, very specific forests around France to determine the right location, the right origin for the wood. And these were the two forests that we that we decided upon.
00:24:14
Speaker
And the ah American oak comes from North Carolina, correct? That's right. Oak stands in North Carolina. In an area that is close to Eric Church's childhood home?
00:24:29
Speaker
Two things, yeah, absolutely. It comes from Eric Church's area where he still spends half of the year when he's not in Nashville. Appalachia is also, when we were initially talking about inspirations for the brand in general, one of the things that Eric said he has always been inspired by is the Troubadour tradition.
00:24:47
Speaker
the idea of, it goes back hundreds and hundreds of years, of ah essentially a new form of of poetic expression, which are poets who travel around and compose songs of love and and and their own life. And the country music tradition and the rock and roll tradition come out of the Troubadour tradition.
00:25:07
Speaker
And so for Explorer, where we which is a series, we have multiple ah releases within the series, we start with a foundation of fully mature American whiskey. And then our take on wood aging, which is a popular trend that many brands do, but our unique take on it is we become hyper specific about where the woods come from and why we chose woods from those areas. And it always begins with quality.
00:25:33
Speaker
So we're we're selecting the finest ah woods to influence the the character of the whiskey. um But for the first explorer, we also wanted to honor the Troubadour tradition. And so we chose two locations that not only have world-class um ah would, but also tie into the Troubadour tradition. So the Troubadours initially began ah hundreds and hundreds of years ago in France, in the transe forest, um which if you're a wine person these days, you know the transe forest produces the oak barrels for Bordeaux.
00:26:06
Speaker
and to stand up to to to to liquid, to wine of that depth and character, you need oak from a place like the Transe Forest. So we wanted to make sure that we incorporated some some of this historic wood that ties back to the origins of the Troubadour tradition, but also incorporate wood from the the the cradle of the Troubadour tradition in the United States, which is Appalachia. So this is sort of an old world and new world homage to the Troubadour tradition.
00:26:35
Speaker
Well, now we want to talk about the actual whiskies that we've been discussing. We really need to taste these. Yes, we have. been We have. That's exactly what we've been doing, Dad. Where have you been? Tasting.
00:26:49
Speaker
Okay, yes, i've I've tasted it. But what I wanted to what i wanted to know, if if I may, um Raj, as far as once the juice and the bottle and all of that was created, was there a specific um strategy that you were following to bring it to market? you know And also, how do you want the consumers to to consume it versus the trade, all of that stuff?
00:27:15
Speaker
i'll I'll talk about the the tiers of the business and the products, and and that's really how I think about it in and terms of for the consumer. But yeah we started obviously with Legacy, which was an ultra-premium price point, $200. We thought Explorer, launching Explorer would be a nice way to get more people under the brand, and that's in the 60s.
00:27:36
Speaker
And we have another product coming out in February, I believe, maybe March, which will be even more approachable. They'll be in the 40s. And to me, that's a great way to get you know a lot of different people into the brand that might not be able to afford the more expensive ones. So that comes out and one comes out in March, you said, right? Yeah, so we're trying to start the exact launch, but somewhere around March. That would be good. I'm just thinking from a bar perspective, that as far as the cost goes and for cocktails, that's definitely more approachable. yeah That's right. it it it was we were When we were launching a brand, we we knew we'd have a problem on-premise because we just it was too expensive for on-premise when you you think about their markup. And so Explorer got a little closer, but it's still a little expensive. This next one is going to be a lot easier. And youre you feel a little guilty blending a $200 bottle. So this this one will be made for either drinking straight because it will be very smooth. And I can already talk about that. and
00:28:35
Speaker
or or blending. yeah well air the two hundred yeah Even that one, you know um ah we did a pop up, we do pop ups across the country.
Expanding the Brand: Events and Launches
00:28:46
Speaker
We did one at the Bellagio at their kind of speakeasy called the vault. um And they have sort of a reserve list of cocktails and They use $200, $300 spirits in their cocktails. um so So I could see that there. um But I'm sorry. They're Vegas kids. Yes, they're Vegas. Exactly. Yeah. But I cut you off. You were just about to say Eric Church Drinks.
00:29:07
Speaker
Oh, but Eric, you know, likes drinking whiskey with Coke. And so it's a little difficult to justify drinking, although, you know, it's an honor you can do it, I guess, but drinking legacy of Coke. he said Well, that's nice there's a lot classic. yeah Too many flavors in there to elude it down with Coke. That's also been featured in lyrics, you know? I'm drinking the whiskey and Coke in the back back truck. I don't know.
00:29:36
Speaker
The drink in my hand is one of my favorites. off yes that's My kids like that sound too. They're a little young to like it, but they like it. Also, I did want to say briefly that I've been tasting these quite a bit and they improve dramatically with aeration.
00:29:54
Speaker
Just wanted to mention. It's funny you say that, Ari, you should talk about that. Because i i put as a novice relative to Ari, I pointed that out to him. I said, Ari, this is fascinating. ah I tried it over 30 seconds, 5 minutes, 10 minutes. And why is that? Ari can explain. i was I was fascinated by his explanation for it.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah, these are these are complex whiskies, especially legacy with the three different 10 plus year old components, ah benefits from aeration in the same way that a wine that may have been in a bottle for 10 years or more also benefits from aeration.
00:30:32
Speaker
There's chemical changes that happen when ah when oxygen is introduced into this liquid, especially when there's as many different compounds floating around like in this blend. um so Not only does it change over time as air essentially creates chemical reactions, but if you add even a little bit of water and change the the ethanol ah water ratio, compounds and aromas will come out of solution um or ice will do the same thing.
00:30:59
Speaker
so these are really the All of the products that we make, whether it's because of that the secondary wood aging or because the complexity of the spirits and the bren blend, evolve in the glass. It's a story that sort of opens up in the glass. So we encourage you to sit with it. Spin around, let the air get in there, see how it affects the aroma. Add a little bit of ice or add a little bit of ice or a little bit of water and these spirits, like like all complex spirits, evolve in the glass and you'll have a different experience between your first sip and your last sip.
00:31:31
Speaker
And dad, I'm just noticing the glass that you're using yes to taste, and then the glass that I have. So I have a Glen Caron glass, and you have what kind of glasses? I'm using, actually, both of them are cognac tasting glasses, because I love them. You love the shapes, and I think they really highlight spirits very nicely, whether it's cognac or whiskey or rum. Very good.
00:31:59
Speaker
And I'll tell you, the Explorer is is really coming into its own and becoming much smoother and more delicate than it was just even a few minutes ago. Yes, I'm getting some berry notes that I didn't have before. like that I guess that's right. Yeah, the Explorer is quite...
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, the drive exactly, the dry fruit comes through. um And the Explorer is pretty smooth for an 103 proof spirit. One of the reasons is that's a choice that we made in the production process, which is when we're allowing the spirits to marry, to to to to meld in a tank.
00:32:39
Speaker
um Most distilleries will close the tank to keep everything inside. We actually crack the top of the tank and we allow some of the more volatile compounds, which are the compounds that tend to burn the nostril, those most volatile compounds. We let the the spirits marry for for at least 72 hours. That will blow off some of those more volatile compounds and it creates a smoother spirit. It takes longer.
00:33:06
Speaker
It takes a little bit more babysitting than your traditional harvest a barrel, bottle a barrel. It's an added step in the process, but we think it yields a better product. And normally, I wouldn't expect a six-year-old bourbon to be as smooth as this one.
Show Closing and Future Plans
00:33:21
Speaker
Really, really good. Really good. It's really delicious, and um you know we always wish that we had More time to chat with you guys and our guests in general, but our time has come to a close, but I do wanna say that Raj, my dad and I are available to play a foursome with you and Eric anytime, anytime. Are you guys golfers? A little bit. I need 100 mulligans. Okay, about 100. And a bunch of boxes of balls.
00:33:56
Speaker
And a lot of balls. We have plenty of whiskey gypsy balls. And whiskey, we'd love to, um and we're also available to kind of, you know, just go on tour with with Eric and the whiskey, you know, personal mixologists.
00:34:10
Speaker
but yeah in it I'll fit right in with my hat. I will fit right in. Well, thank you so much. Best of luck with the product. And at some point, we'd love to hang out in person and do some more stuff together. So thanks so much, guys. That would be great. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you for the time. Ari, thank you so much. Thanks for having us. It was wonderful meeting you both and discussing gypsy whiskey with you. Thank you. Ditto. Thank you.
00:34:40
Speaker
The Cocktail Guru presents Cocktail Commentary with Jeffrey Pogash. Sit back and enjoy the story of the flowing bowl. Hello, my friends, and welcome back to Cocktail Commentary.
00:34:56
Speaker
I know it's hard to imagine what life was like before we had cocktails, but my friends, there was such a moment in time.
History of Cocktails and Punch in Society
00:35:04
Speaker
And what a fun and glorious moment it must have been, really. In fact, it was a simpler life, less complicated, and in some ways, more satisfying. There were fewer choices. Today, when you go to a bar, you have to wade knee-deep in this martini or that martini or the teeny weeny martini, you know what I mean. Some of you already know that Jerry Thomas, aka Professor Jeremiah Thomas, is the one who first codified the cocktail in his 1862 book, Had a Mixed Drinks or the Bon Vivant's Companion. This is the cocktail lover's Bible since it's the first time that cocktail recipes were published in book form.
00:35:45
Speaker
We know that there were most likely cocktail recipes written on scraps of paper, but not available in a book for the world to see until renowned bartender Jerry Thomas came along. So exactly what type of book with drink recipes was available before 1862.
00:36:03
Speaker
People drank, right? Yeah, they did. They had to get their recipes from somewhere. Interestingly, a woman, that's right, I said a woman by the name of Mrs. Isabella Beaton published a world-famous groundbreaking work called Mrs. Beaton's Book of Household Management in 1861.
00:36:21
Speaker
a year before Jerry Thomas's book, in which she did include a few recipes for spirit-based beverages, along with non-alcoholic drinks. But the word cocktail is nowhere to be found, of course.
00:36:36
Speaker
We have to go back to 1827 to find a book devoted entirely to mixed drink recipes. Its title is Oxford Nightcaps, and yes, it was published for Oxford University. The subtitle is, quote, being a collection of receipts used for making beverages in the university.
00:36:57
Speaker
These are recipes used when dignitaries, such as members of the clergy, would come to pay a visit to the university. Fittingly enough, the first recipe in the book is called bishop, which is a hot spiced wine. But it appears that the students at Oxford enjoyed their night caps as well and were quite discriminating in their drinking habits. It is to be presumed that some of these recipes came from the students themselves.
00:37:25
Speaker
The beverage that dominates the book is one that permeated British society at that time. Punch. That's right. Before there were cocktails, there was punch. It just so happens that the first written reference to punch was in 1632. That's how far back it goes. More than 200 years before the word cocktail entered our vocabulary.
00:37:49
Speaker
Punch at this time was a highfalutin drink. Yeah, it was considered fancy and ceremonial. Punchmaking was a ritual among upper-class British gents. I'm not talking about the punch from my youth made with yago sangria, Kool-Aid, and a hefty dose of ginger ale. Nope, not that kind. The punch drinks found in Oxford night caps are proper punches.
00:38:13
Speaker
They were made with the finest ingredients, the best rum or the best brandy, probably from the cognac region of France rather than generic brandy. For centuries, English gentlemen bonded over the flowing bowl, as it was known, and passed down the art of punchmaking from one generation to the next. So what exactly was this phenomenon known as punch? Allow me to quote a little ditty from the aforementioned Oxford nightcaps.
00:38:41
Speaker
When ere a bowl of punch we make, four striking opposites we take, the strong, the small, the sharp, the sweet, together mixed most kindly meet. And when they happily unite, the bowl is pregnant with delight.
00:39:01
Speaker
I bet you didn't think that you'd be learning about pregnant bulls in this episode, but here we have it, a punch bowl that is so full of deliciousness that it squeals with delight, making all who partake of it very happy indeed.
00:39:16
Speaker
The word punch most likely derives from the Hindu word for the number five, punch, or the Persian word, punj. Why the number five? Simple. It takes five ingredients to make a proper punch. Brandy or rum were the usual spirits, along with citrus juice, lemons, or oranges.
00:39:35
Speaker
sugar, water, and a spice. Since India or possibly Pakistan appears to be the birthplace of punch, it is highly probable that tea was the required spice. And voila, we have the five essential components of a punch.
00:39:52
Speaker
In the American colonies, punch was a very popular drink and it flowed liberally. At one community meeting in New England in the year 1785, 80 men attended and consumed 30 bowls of punch before the meeting and 40 more bowls that evening during dinner. Eventually, colonial wives banded together to put a stop to these raucous events, but the punch bowl remained an effective tool of persuasion at the polls on election day.
00:40:21
Speaker
You know, the philosophy was if you ply the voter with punch, he might be convinced to vote for the candidate of your choice. Eventually, the practice was banned during elections, but punch continued to thrive in various forms. And now you'll learn the rest of the story. Hmm.
00:40:44
Speaker
In the 19th century, America's wealthy elite spent a great deal of time hosting the most lavish dinners imaginable at restaurants that were created specifically to cater to this ritzy clientele.
00:40:58
Speaker
The Astors, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilt's, JP Morgan, and the Carnegie's, just to name a few, flocked to the palaces of gastronomy, like Delmonico's, the Waldorf Astoria, and Sherry's, where great food was served and guests were often treated to performances that would rival the spectacular and glitzy Las Vegas floor shows of today.
00:41:21
Speaker
You don't believe me? Punch was served at all of these events, mostly a frozen Roman punch topped with a dollop of meringue served as individual cocktails during the intermezzo, a palate cleanser between courses.
00:41:36
Speaker
In the Gilded Age of 1896, the infamous Seeley Brothers Dinner was held in a very private room at Sherry's Restaurant, owned by Louis Sherry, whose name became synonymous with fancy ice cream when I was growing up. The dinner, a bachelor party, featured the exotic dancer Little Egypt and her troupe as the guest headliner. For those of you who don't recognize the name, Little Egypt is the young lady who made the hoochie-coochie famous.
00:42:06
Speaker
Before the evening ended, New York's finest police officers raided the joint. In the chaos, little Egypt escaped and was nowhere to be found, but she ended up suing the Sealy brothers for non-payment of her fee, and it is said that the brothers were never able to overcome the scandalous publicity.
00:42:27
Speaker
Exactly who were these guys? As it turns out, Herbert and Duncan had quite a lineage to live up to. It seems that their middle name was Barnum. Yes, like P.T. Barnum, the great showman and founder of the circus who was their grandfather. And now you know the rest of the story.
00:42:59
Speaker
That's a wrap. If you enjoy what we do, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show and our newsletter. To watch or listen to today's episode, or to see the show notes, visit thecocktailgurushow.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, YouTube, X, Instagram, or TikTok. The Cocktail Guru Show is produced by First Real Entertainment and is available via YouTube, Spotify, Zencaster, Apple, Amazon, EatsDrinksTV dot.com, Galaxy Global on Comcast, and wherever you enjoy your favorite shows.