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Liverpool CROSSOVER with Daily Manchester United (Part One) - The Problem with Manchester United
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Louie Easton and Jesse Sarwar are joined by Tom Cairns and Sam Brady of the Manchester United Podcast for a special crossover ahead of this weekend's North West Derby!
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New Club-Specific Podcasts
00:01:16
Speaker
Your daily soccer podcast with the Global Sports Podcast Network.
00:01:24
Speaker
Hello, you are listening to the Daily Liverpool and Daily Manchester United podcasts brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. My name is Louis Easton and joining me from the Liverpool team is Mr. Jesse Sarwar, the familiar face.
00:01:41
Speaker
how's it How's it going, mate? Very good, very good. and just so glad that the international break is over and we can start to you know focusing on proper football. Yeah, exactly. Although I will say there's not enough Liverpool players in the England team at the moment, so there's even less reason to be excited to watch England. um Curtis Jones needs some justice, man.
00:02:03
Speaker
um Joining me from the daily Manchester United team, Sam Brady. Sam, what football team do you support? Funny you should ask that. I support Manchester United, mate. Well, that is a shame. Tom Cairns, what football team do you support?
00:02:17
Speaker
I have to be on the side of Sam. It is Manchester United myself. I was hoping to catch you out there. These two have had the unfortunate in recent years, I think it's fair to say,
00:02:28
Speaker
ah duty of watching Manchester United. um And this is the one I think we all look forward to um when the calendar is announced at the start of the season.
Historic Liverpool vs. Manchester United Rivalry
00:02:40
Speaker
ah Liverpool versus Manchester United, the biggest match historically in English football, I think a lot of us will say. um Sam, your memories of watching Liverpool versus Manchester United growing up?
00:02:54
Speaker
um Yeah, normally ah very enjoyable, to be honest. Obviously, recent years, I can't say the same, apart from maybe last season. and But yeah, ah I mean, that there's as you said, there's not a fixture.
00:03:08
Speaker
that This is a sort of the fixture you look at at the start of the season and and you go, when is it? And you you make a note of it in you in your diary and Yeah, it's it's it's it's the biggest game of the season, really. And and yeah, I fear the worst on Sunday, I have to say. yeah I wear Anfield, but you never know with this United team. It comes up with many surprises every now and then. So yeah, great, good memories, bad memories. But yeah, it's always ah always a good watch.
00:03:37
Speaker
ah Jesse, the same question goes to you. When you were growing up, um the it was different eras that you saw ah through the years as well, obviously. But um what are your earliest memories of watching this derby?
00:03:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm a bit older than you guys. So, um you know, some of my earliest memories, ah you might you might not have been born. But I think that the thing about this fixture, as Sam has said, this is the one.
00:04:06
Speaker
this This is the big one. You know, it it doesn't matter, you know, who's in the ascendancy or which other clubs are doing well, whether it's Manchester City sometimes or it's Chelsea or Arsenal sometimes.
00:04:18
Speaker
the the The one that we look for is Manchester United. And I'm sure that's the same for Manchester United fans as well. I remember Alex Ferguson saying the same thing. It's the first fixture that he looks for, even when it was Arsenal that you know were challenging for the title or Chelsea.
00:04:35
Speaker
Liverpool's the one. And for us, it's Manchester United. and so Yeah, I mean, the memories have been good ones, bad ones. And it's a bit of a cliche when you say that, you know, um form book goes out of the window.
00:04:47
Speaker
But it really is true with Liverpool, Manchester United. And i I know Sam said that he's a bit worried about, um you know, the team coming to Anfield, you know, in in the kind of form that they are.
00:04:58
Speaker
Honestly, Liverpool fans are worried as well because there really is no kind of form form guide in this fixture. When Manchester United were, you know, winning everything in the and in the of the 2000s, the early ah two thousand the early two thousand s You know, we had a string of results. We'd go there.
00:05:15
Speaker
Danny Murphy would get a goal. And so it doesn't really matter who's really, really doing well. You know, this is a one-off fixture. And I think it's really important for both clubs for different reasons that we get a positive result.
00:05:29
Speaker
Tom, with you, um obviously there are some situations you may think about throughout history, whether that's the 96 FA Cup final, you know when we turned up wearing our cream suits, and the less it about that match, the better.
00:05:45
Speaker
um Or maybe the 2009 matches where Torres would terrorize Vidic. I mean, you still ended up winning the league, so I'm guessing you won't feel as sour about that. But I mean, throughout history, there have been some great memories um for you as Manchester United fans. Which one would stand out to you?
00:06:05
Speaker
It's a very good question. I mean, I i even remember Rio Ferdinand's late winner in 2006. I think it was Giggs that provided the free kick and Ferdinand got ahead on it right on the 90 minute mark, like exactly 90 minutes when that ball went in. And obviously there was the Gary Neville celebration in front of the Liverpool fans, which I think in the heat,
00:06:23
Speaker
In the heat of the moment, you couldn't help but see him do that because it meant that much to him. But i think that emphasises the rivalry between Liverpool and Manchester United, said you know even to this day, where it is Liverpool who have the better form compared to United in recent years. But when it comes to this fixture, the form book goes out of the window.
00:06:44
Speaker
In regards to other memories, I still remember the match. in 2008 where West Brown got a header in who had a really, really stellar season actually did West Brown. And then obviously Ronaldo and that strike from outside the penalty area from Nani was just sublime.
00:07:02
Speaker
So those were the early moments or some of the early moments growing up to see Manchester United. And also Dimitar Berbatov, the hat trick from Berbatov against Liverpool. ah where we won particularly the bicycle kick, which was a very cute bicycle kick by Berbsov standards.
00:07:17
Speaker
That's another one of which that sticks with me. And of course, there's the bad moments for us, which I won't go into too much detail on. I don't remember any of those wins. I don't remember any of those wins. I doubt very much it's true. i think we'll have to Google it afterwards.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah. Who's this Berbatov character? I've never heard of him. What about the, Jesse, let's focus on some of the good ones. What about that 0-3 League Cup final?
00:07:42
Speaker
Dudek and goal for the penalties. Gerrard not quite taking off his shirt, taking his shirt half off so he can try and get away with it. but that was That was one of the more fond ones. It was, yeah. and And it was a good period. um Under Gerard Julio, we were really kind of ah difficult team to beat. It was a really kind of a solid team.
00:08:03
Speaker
you know they They weren't the most kind of... um attractive team to watch but they were really solid and and and that's why you know we we went to Old Trafford a few times we got a 1-0 result Danny Murphy would normally score um so yeah that was a good period and that League Cup final was obviously one of those Okay, I'm going to ask a question to the United boys
Player Transfer Hypotheticals
00:08:27
Speaker
first. um This is one that I like to do whenever I'm hosting a crossover.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's pick one player from the opposite team that you would love to have at United in this for this instance. I know it's quite a difficult one ah to talk about when it's your most bitter rivals.
00:08:46
Speaker
um But I'm interested to see who you guys pick. Tom, I'll go to you first. Alexis McAllister. That's a very respectable pick. Why McAllister in particular?
00:08:59
Speaker
I like how he drives the ball and holds the ball up whenever he has it. And he's never afraid to take a shot himself when the likes of Seller and Gap Poe are kind of pocketed.
00:09:11
Speaker
But when they're both pocketed on the um on the wings, you leave the middle of the park sort of exposed so that McAllister has all the space and all the time in the world to get the shot away.
00:09:22
Speaker
If he was still at Brighton, I wouldn't have blamed United trying to go for him. But of course, that changed obviously in 2022, I believe, McAllister went to... um Or was it 23 that McAllister went to?
00:09:34
Speaker
Was it 23? Yeah, he was still at Brighton when he won the World Cup, didn't he? Yeah. But yeah, he'd be the one I'd go for. Yeah, especially since he scored a penalty against you like in the last minute. and That was ah Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, right when he was about to sign for us as well. So we liked him more for that. um Sam, you're your pick. Yeah, I mean, well, it's hard to just pick one considering I think probably 10 out of the 11 would probably get into the United squad right now. and But and look, I mean, there's the obvious choices.
00:10:09
Speaker
I think the obvious one for me would be Van Dijk, obviously. i think we need a really solid centre-back I think I spoke about it on our episode yesterday, but I feel like all our centre-backs at the minute are all kind of the same level, if not worse. They're all seven out of tens, eight out tens on a good day, whereas we need a real leader, a real world-class centre-back to sort of lead them all. Would you be saying the same if Lisandro Martinez was available?
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah, still say the same. I think I mentioned Lissandro yesterday and I think he's about the same level. I think he's a 7 out of 10, 8 out of 10 on a good day. We need consistent leaders. And to be honest, we do need one centre-back who is...
00:10:57
Speaker
the next level, who can take us to that next level. I think we've all got centre-backs, De Ligt, very decent centre-back, Jorreau, decent centre-back, Martinez, decent, but none of them are above decent, I would say. So that's the obvious one. And then I'd say maybe the less obvious one, even though he's been outstanding, I think, so especially last year, is Gravenberch.
00:11:18
Speaker
I mean, we need a holding midfielder. We're screaming out for one. um Obviously, Casemiro can't cut it anymore. Agate is rubbish. So, yeah, Gravenberch, why not whack him in there? So, I've given you two, but I could have given you about 10 now. Well, that's very kind of you. ah Jesse, same question goes to you on the flip side.
Debate on Bruno Fernandes' Captaincy
00:11:39
Speaker
um Maybe people would probably be leaning towards Bruno Fernandes, or would you say something different? No, not Fernandes. I'd go for either...
00:11:51
Speaker
The thing is, that you know I don't want to sound disrespectful, but we we know that obviously Liverpool at the moment, in terms of just the quality of their squad, is is obviously far, far better than Manchester United's at the moment. and So you're really struggling to find a player who would get into the first 11. Yeah.
00:12:10
Speaker
um And so you're looking at players who could add something in terms of a squad. So there really isn't anyone that I would take from the Manchester United team into the first 11.
00:12:21
Speaker
There really isn't. I can't think. I mean, where'd you look? Goalkeeper, you know, the fullback. So Sam said, you made a actually really good point about the centre-back situation at Manchester United, which I really 100% agree with.
00:12:34
Speaker
Is that Manchester United actually, if you look on paper, they've got some good defenders. Yeah. You know, De Ligt is not a joke. he's He's a very, very good defender.
00:12:45
Speaker
um But they don't have that standout player that can just lead that back line so that when there they're struggling, when their backs are against the wall, they all just look to that one player.
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, Manchester United used to have those players. you know whether whether it's a ah Rio Ferdinand or Vidic, if he wasn't playing against Torres, um or even either back even further back, likes of Steve Bruce.
00:13:11
Speaker
you know Steve Bruce was not the most talented or or the the most technically gifted ah centre-back. But my God, you're not getting anything past him just because of his sheer his sheer will, his sheer presence.
00:13:26
Speaker
And I think that's what Manchester United are really crying out for. But in terms of um the players that I would pick, I'd say, Ahmad, know this is going sound really weird, um especially after I said that none of these players would get into the Liverpool XI.
00:13:39
Speaker
But I think Mason Mount, there is a player there in Mason Mount. I think he's been desperately unlucky with injuries. I really do. I think he's been really, really unlucky i agree with injuries.
00:13:50
Speaker
Because I think at Chelsea, I remember there were rumours that Liverpool were in for him as well, potentially. They were in for him alongside Manchester United. And you know for whatever reason, whether it was Liverpool pulled the plug or or he just opted for Manchester United,
00:14:07
Speaker
I think that in ah in a really good functioning midfield, I think he's a very, very good player. And if you just look at the midfielders that we've had in recent times, then they're not kind of...
00:14:21
Speaker
um They're not world beaters individually. yeah Jordan Henderson, Wijnaldum. you know These guys, they're functional midfielders. you know And I think Mason Mount in that kind of midfield, a really hard-working midfield, ah intense midfield.
00:14:38
Speaker
i think Mason Mount would be absolutely fantastic, but it's his fitness that is an issue. So if you leave him out, then I'd say Ahmad would be um the one that I would i would take. Jesse, sorry, sorry. Can I ask what why not Bruno Fernandes? Because if i'm I'm looking at your squad in terms of that number 10 position, ah think he's he's a better player than Sobhush Light. And I also think at the minute he's a better player than Virts.
00:15:03
Speaker
So what what's the reasoning behind it? Firstly, I think and this is probably the most important reason, is I utterly detest him. okay um I'd be worried that if if he if he walked into Anfield and he bumped into one of the stewards, he'd hold his face and roll around on the floor and do himself another injury and he's he's out for about two, three weeks.
00:15:27
Speaker
So that's one of my major concerns there. The other one is that I don't think he's better than Sir Bosley. I genuinely don't. I think that he's, don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player. Technically, he's a fantastic player.
00:15:42
Speaker
um But I think that he is a fantastic player in a very average team. I think if he comes to Liverpool, there's no way he's captain. He's not captain material.
00:15:53
Speaker
No way. And he's not a starter. He's a rotating player. Sir Bosley sometimes doesn't start. That's what happens when you're an elite level football club. There are very few starters, even at Liverpool, Salah, Van Dijk, the rest of them, Sir Bozlai, McAllister, Gravenberg, the fullbacks, you know, um Alexander Izzak will be the same.
00:16:15
Speaker
You know, they they're they're going to be in and out of the team according to what, you know, what our needs are in a certain stage of the of the season. But I think that, Certainly for what we need as ah as a team, I don't think that I would take Bruno Fernandes at his age.
00:16:33
Speaker
I don't think the intensity is there. um If you compare him to Saboslay, Saboslay, my God, I mean, the whistle blows and he's he's still running. You know, he's he's still running. And yeah I think that in the modern game,
00:16:48
Speaker
That is just so important that you you have to have one of those players in your midfield. And I don't think Bruno Fernandes, as talented as he is, you know joking aside, he is an extremely talented player.
00:16:59
Speaker
But i I don't think that I would put him above any of those players in our midfield. And also Soboslai has probably been our best player all season. And honestly, this new version of Soboslai, we've seen him go to right back. I'm seeing, it's almost like seeing a little bit of Gerrard in him because you just get the feeling with him that he will be put anywhere in the squad and he will put out a 10 out of 10 performance for us at the minute.
00:17:25
Speaker
um And his long range passing and his set pieces as well. He offers so much. Plus he is captain material as well, I think in, Five years time, he could become captain of Liverpool if he wanted to.
00:17:38
Speaker
And, you know, even for Hungary, we saw in the international break, he got a last minute equaliser against, was it Portugal, I think? Or I could be wrong. But yeah, he he is he is the one I want at the moment at our number 10 position, just while Wurz gets a bit more adjusted. And I think we have got an incredible player in Wurz as well.
00:17:59
Speaker
um Sorry, i take it to not to labour on this point about um ah Bruno Fernandes. One of the other reasons i wouldn't take him above someone like Sabozla or anyone else else in our midfield is ah just in terms of his attitude and his temperament, um I don't think he'd he'd be a fit for Liverpool.
00:18:16
Speaker
I really don't. I think that he'd... No. I think, you know, as soon as he ah someone does a misplaced pass and he's throwing his arms up in the air, you know, forget it. He's, you know, it's it's just not something you see Liverpool players doing and that kind of attitude. And that's why I genuinely... You know, that rivalry aside...
00:18:34
Speaker
um He's not a captain. I think he's the worst possible captain for a Manchester United team who are trying to find their feet. No, really, genuinely.
00:18:44
Speaker
like Listen, look. Liverpool, Manchester United. Look, do I hate Manchester United? 100%. You know, do do do I love it when they lose? 100%. And it's the same for Manchester United fans. But I'll tell something Liverpool, Manchester United as well, which I don't share with Manchester City or Chelsea, is that we have 100% respect for Manchester United.
00:19:03
Speaker
Because Manchester United's success... was built on what they achieved on the pitch, just like Liverpool. Manchester United weren't a joke team and then all of a sudden, you know, they strike oil and, you know, they're suddenly a fantastic team with 115 charges under them.
00:19:20
Speaker
Manchester United are a proper football club. And if you look at the the captains that Manchester United have had, Roy Keane, Brian Robson, I mean, these guys...
00:19:31
Speaker
Brian Robertson was one of the few players growing up who I thought, you know what, I want him in the Liverpool team. But and I just think someone like Bruno Fernandes, I think, is a a disgrace to that armband.
00:19:44
Speaker
I really do. And I think that i'd give it to I would give it to Mason Mount ahead of Bruno Fernandes, just in terms of attitude, not just because he's a better player. Your best player isn't always your best captain.
00:19:56
Speaker
Sam, do you agree with that ah take about Bruno as a captain? i was going to say, I mean, I'll try and convince you. I i don't think I'll be able to. But yeah, um obviously I disagree, to be honest, because I think the the first point you make in in terms of you detest tasked him ah as his personality and whatever, I think that gets thrown at him a lot by football fans.
00:20:18
Speaker
But at the same time, one, that's a personal reason. So it's that that's nothing, again, and you did make the point in terms of he's a world-class player and and things.
00:20:30
Speaker
But at the same time, you would love him for your team if it were if he was in your team. It's like those types of players, like the Rudigers of the world, you know those types of players who, okay, if you're a rival opposition, you hate them against you because they do all the dirty tactics and dive and whatever. Like Suarez was for us. Yeah, like Suarez. but if he plays for your team, you love him.
00:20:54
Speaker
And in terms of the captaincy, Okay, there have been moments, admittedly, where he hasn't ah acted it in the best way. But at the same time, if you're if you're the best player in that team, by some way, by the way, in terms of ability, you're looking around and you're on you going, who's helping me, lads?
00:21:15
Speaker
I need a bit of help. and then When you get when you get you you look around, of course you're going to get annoyed. Of course you're going to expect more from your team. And you're the captain and and you have to set an example.
00:21:27
Speaker
And my God, on the pitch, he's setting an example in terms of what he's doing with goals and assists. I mean, he is world class. let Let's not get this mistaken. He is a world class.
00:21:39
Speaker
ah number 10, wherever you want to play him. And he's been playing out of position, by the way, in in the past, probably, well, last season he played half in the right position, half not.
00:21:50
Speaker
And this season he's playing out of position. And you don't see him moaning about, publicly moaning about it, whatever. He's just getting on with it. and he And he's the one player who is consistently putting up amazing performances. The one player.
00:22:06
Speaker
You cannot say that. ah I'm trying to think, no, you literally can't say that about any other player. Ahmad maybe gets you know a bit of grace, but even he puts in a few stinkers every now and then Bruno is consistently class.
00:22:22
Speaker
And in terms of like whether he would get into yours don't get me wrong I don't know if he would sort of fit your system and and fit as you as you said Jesse the intensity and I don't know if Bruno can put up with that intensity but in terms of pure ability he probably gets into every side I would say in in the Premier League in terms of that number 10 position right now I mean even the cities and the arsenals I put Bruno in their team and
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, you might say that's crazy, that's biased, blahh blah, blah, blah. But a lot of people go, oh, not Bruno, not Bruno, purely just based off his attitude. But if he was your captain... No, he is a good player. I think he so. And obviously, he wouldn't be captain in at Liverpool because you've got you've got Van Dijk and, you know...
00:23:10
Speaker
even probably Alisson in terms of... Robertson. yeah yeah Yeah, in terms of that leadership, I guess. But you you have options. But, I mean, my God, I mean, for a struggling...
00:23:24
Speaker
considering we are literally in our worst time in our history in the Premier League, we've got a player here who, by the way, could have left a couple of seasons ago. Saudi came in for him and he and he said no.
00:23:36
Speaker
And he wanted to stick it out. and and And I truly believe that he's going to stay with United for for years and years and until his end of his career, to be honest, because I truly believe he loves the club. He loves everything about United and and and we love him. And look,
00:23:54
Speaker
Rival fans can say whatever you want about him, but he's ours, you know? so Well, I'll tell you something, because um just moving on from Bruno now, because we have been talking about him for ages now. please but ah There is one player, because you made the point about him being one of your, like the the only player who's been consistently good for you.
00:24:15
Speaker
I'm going to throw a little um name in the ring here because every time I've watched him for you guys, he's genuinely impressed me. And this is my pick for who I'd have from your side.
00:24:27
Speaker
Nusea Masraoui. I think he's been good at right back. I think ah he's been, you know, good on the ball, not making any mistakes, at least from what I've seen. and Our fullback positions are maybe the ones that have been struggling recently because let's face it, Jesse, Frimpong is just not a natural right back. He's a wing back. He likes to get forward um and he plays further forward for the Netherlands as well.
00:24:50
Speaker
Bradley's been struggling and our best player at right back this season has been Dominic Sobosla whenever he's gone there. I mean, that performance against Arsenal. Incredible. And I think while you United to do play with a back five and the wing backs that like to go forward, I think Masraoui is very capable of just playing as a traditional right back. And I know he's probably not going to play against us because he's got his injury issues. But I think, um I don't know, Tom, if you disagree with this um about Masraoui, but I think every time I've seen him, he's been genuinely good.
00:25:23
Speaker
I think he's been great as well as Masraoui. One of the few last season I thought actually putting a decent shift from on the most occasions. I think the one setback I would say with him is what happened in the Europa League final when he failed to close down Saar when he put in that ball in for Johnson get a tail on it.
00:25:40
Speaker
And that was the decisive moment on that night in Bilbao. But yeah, I would agree with Mats Rea. I think he is a talented wingback. I think the ring but the right wingback role suits him. He does like to get forward like Ahmed does.
00:25:55
Speaker
And we need that in the system that's there. Going back to the I know we said about the Bruno Fdenas, we've come away from him. what I'll ask, i'll ask um let me just ask Jesse and Louis about this, because what separates Bruno Fernandes to someone like Roy Keane as a skipper?
00:26:12
Speaker
Attitude. Yeah. That's the first the first thing, and and that's where i I disagree with Sam, like fundamentally, is that Being a top player, it's not just about technical technical ability.
00:26:25
Speaker
there are There are loads of players littered throughout Premier League history who had just unbelievable technical ability. and And yet they they didn't achieve what they could have achieved, right?
00:26:37
Speaker
um And so I think Bruno Fernandes, technically fantastic player. Attitude, I think. Yes, you know, he's you can say that he's he's improved his attitude as in the last season or two as captain.
00:26:52
Speaker
But i I think that's because he is, as Sam said, head and shoulders, the best player. And i I just don't think that translates to so when you come to Liverpool because he's not going to be head and shoulders best player.
00:27:06
Speaker
He's going to be one of a just a bunch of midfield players. And I'm not sure whether he's then got the the character and the personality to affect our team you know positively. ah then then Then you do see that but Bruno Fernandes, who he just waves his you know his arms up in the air with with every stray pass,
00:27:29
Speaker
I just don't like his... his and It's not just the diving. The diving sickens me. But it's just the the the the the attitude that he's got as a footballer. It's the professionalism, isn't it? It's professionalism, might i I think.
00:27:42
Speaker
You know, the one... that we all remember. um And he's petulant. but So when he's losing, and you can say that, look, that's a good thing. You don't want to be a good loser. Okay. But I remember when United got battered at Anfield and he just let the man run past him and he just, he just gave up and he put his arms up in the air and just, you know, your typical kind of Bruno Fernand, that would not wash at Liverpool at all. No way.
00:28:07
Speaker
You know, just in terms of the players around him, you mentioned McAllister. McAllister's not having that. At all. He's not having that. Van Dijk's not having that. and And that's for that reason. I don't think he's a, he's a player that would do anything for us, given that he's got great technical ability, but that's just not the only thing that makes a top footballer. yeah Sorry, but then I was going to say but then Jesse, who's captain at United, if it's not Brunel? Yeah, no, you you've got a fair point.
00:28:33
Speaker
You've got a fair point because that they they are in such a situation. that they're in the situation where they have to give the captaincy to their best player. You know, if their best player was their left back, if Luke Shaw was the best player on the pitch, that i would get he would be captain, right? um So they are in a particular predicament. I i concede that point 100% that you don't have... I'll tell you something. If Scott McTominay, know people are going to laugh, but if he stayed at Manchester United...
00:29:04
Speaker
ah he's he's for me is captain material. You know, your best player, we had Jordan Henson. Jordan Henson was by no means was he the best player on the pitch, but he was our best captain.
00:29:15
Speaker
and And I look at someone like Scott McTominay as someone who could have been a very, very good captain at Manchester United if he was given the backing, if he was given the the tools around him to succeed.
00:29:27
Speaker
And I also think it's the fact that he was given the captain's armband off Harry Maguire when Maguire was struggling. I think it was just ah bad thing internally for the club you know it's sort of like punishing ah player for being bad ah sort of thing it's like oh he's a good player let's just whack it on him and then problem solved its it doesn't work like that and that's you you asked the question about Roy Keane you know I don't know enough about Roy Keane because I wasn't there to watch him but I'd say I was there to watch Jordan Henderson during lockdown for Liverpool barking around the pitch encouraging everyone and
00:30:01
Speaker
You know, even just hes he's he's one of these players that you would want to come on while we're losing and make sure no one switches off as well. I don't think Bruno's that sort of player. I think he's a terrific player, but to galvanize a group, Tom, I'm sure you can agree, like he's just not that sort of player.
00:30:25
Speaker
Well, with Bruno Fernandes, there's very a few players at United right now that be a solid captain and Bruno Fernandes is probably the best that we've got. But we need basically an anchor type player. We need like a a Vincent Kompany or a Fernandinho type defensive midfielder stroke centre half that can lead that back line.
00:30:45
Speaker
And when players are acting out of character, that's when the skipper has to tell them, said, look, the club won't wash that if you continue acting like you are on the pitch. I think you're crying out for a Michael Carrick at the moment.
00:30:58
Speaker
Well, even if we had Michael Kerrick, it wouldn't do us any harm. i wouldn't If Michael Kerrick came back to the dugout, even if it's just like for an interim role, he would basically add what he would have been able to do when he was at United as a player.
00:31:16
Speaker
yeah That's something I think that's what's missing in the backroom staff as well. It's not just what we see on the pitch. It's also on the bench. As an assistant, you mean, well, would you want to get rid of Amorim?
00:31:29
Speaker
Well, that's the next question, isn't I suppose you were going to ask both me and Sam. um He's come under fire a lot this season. um I said, I can't remember if I said this on the last podcast I said when I was, I think it was after the Brentford game, shortly after the Brentford game.
00:31:45
Speaker
If he had lost that game to Sunderland, I thought that would be that for him. He probably would have seen out the remaining games of October because I think there's a thing in his contract where if he was dismissed within the first 12 months of his job United would have needed to have paid off something like £12 million pounds in compensation because they fired him from the from the position prematurely.
00:32:09
Speaker
Whereas if they went into November and sat in them, the compensation that would have had to have paid for Ruben Amarillo to leave would have been less. So that is why he's probably still in the job right now.
00:32:20
Speaker
Mind you, we could go to Anfield and completely shock everyone and catch people out because that's what happened last season. I mean, when we went to Anfield in January, We were on a barren run of form.
00:32:32
Speaker
You know, we lost to Newcastle. We lost to Wolves. I can't remember who else we lost to on the run up to that, but we lost two very big games really before we headed to Anfield when everyone thought that United were going to be on the rhoda wrong end of a job in.
00:32:48
Speaker
It was pouncing it down with snow as well. And there was a thing or two about the match being called off and United fans were even wanting that. But the but The downside of that happening is, you know, if that was put back to the end of April or something like that, and we ended up playing you, and that was the game for you to win in order to win the league, that would have made it a whole lot worse.
00:33:11
Speaker
So i'm glad that we had that game going ahead and obviously putting one of our best performances of last season. Nearly won it as well. Yeah, we should we should have won it because Maguire tightly bottled it when the ball came to him from a good distance.
00:33:24
Speaker
but let's Let's be fair, Tom. That was an absolute miracle we got a draw. and that that In my opinion, and look, I know I got a lot of stick from Kieran yesterday for being a negative Nancy, but in in my opinion, that's going to happen. It's just not.
00:33:39
Speaker
I mean, and and I always say bad as it is, if I know how bad we can be in in recent months and and last year. And if that if that if it comes anywhere close to that, we're getting battered. I mean, it's just it's just not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.
00:33:56
Speaker
On the hammering point, look, I like the bloke. He's decent bloke. I would go out with a pint for him, but he's got to go. Really? You think he's got to go? ah Yeah, yeah. He's he's got to go. In my opinion, he has to go. No.
00:34:11
Speaker
And as I said, ah I love the bloke. He's such an honest guy. He seems like a really nice guy. Like, I wish him all the best. But he's so stubborn in playing this style of play when we don't have the players to play him. He's going to die on his own sword. And you just can't, at the top level, you have to adapt as a manager.
00:34:31
Speaker
Okay, you can have your style of play and go into games. thinking, okay, we're going to set out up three at the back, blah, blah, blah. but when you when the game unfolds, you have to be able to adapt. And especially when you know you don't have the players to play your system.
00:34:46
Speaker
So you're playing players out of position. You're playing Bruno in the number eight. you're You're bringing on Mount playing as sort of a left wing back type. you know you You're swapping your centre, two centre backs every game.
00:34:59
Speaker
Like... in In my opinion, he's he's he looks a bit out of his depth now. And as I said, I love the guy. He's an honest guy. But it's nearly been a year now and we've seen no progress, literally no progress at all.
00:35:16
Speaker
So how can you justify him staying in the job? And you really want me to sit here and say, oh, let's sack another manager. That's the last thing I want to do because I like Dolly. I like Ten Hag.
00:35:29
Speaker
I like Ruben, I like all these guys. And yeah as I said, I could probably go to the pub with these guys and i have a good chat. But as managing my football club, um I'm sorry. just I've got to say, I ah take everything that Sam's saying, is you know that in terms of his inflexibility.
Ruben Amarim's Challenges at Manchester United
00:35:46
Speaker
I think at this level, you've got to show that you you can adapt, especially when your team's not doing well. it's you know you You can be stubborn when you're winning, right? You can be stubborn. You're like, I'm not changing.
00:35:59
Speaker
You lose a couple of games. I'm not changing. But if you're if you're in where Manchester United are, you've got to show... a bit more adaptability. But I've got to say, I do have sympathy for him because when he first came in, um apparently he turned Manchester United down said, look, I want to start at the start of the season, next season, at the very start the season, have a good pre-season and then we'll go from there.
00:36:26
Speaker
And United just said to him, look, take it or leave it. If you don't take it now, you know we're going to give it to someone else. And think what happened then was that he's coming to a club where the rot has already set in, in terms of with that team.
00:36:41
Speaker
And there wasn't really there wasn't really much he could do with that team, given that there was no you know none of his players. And so then you you're already on a downer. You're already losing games. You're already in a bad position in the Premier League.
00:36:55
Speaker
And yes, I know that it's start of a new season. but the pressure is already there now. And I just think that if he had started at the start of the season, I think it would have given him a much better better chance because I really do think that he's a ah really talented young manager.
00:37:12
Speaker
And I think he's got a fantastic personality, like Sam said, which is really important when you're leading a big club. You've got to go into that dressing do room and you've got to have a bit of a personality about you where players who, you know, that they're not that much younger than you.
00:37:27
Speaker
He's a young guy. ah they've They've got to respect you. And I think Amarim had that. But I think that that's going quickly now and and it's really difficult to see how he's going to pull this back.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yeah, sorry, i was going to say just just off that point, I fully agree with you, Jesse, to be honest. i that is a is a big part of me, actually, because as as I said, I like the guy that that feels bad for him because...
00:37:53
Speaker
ah Our club is broken throughout, through the top to the bottom. and And I feel bad because he's come in and and had to sort of deal with all or everything that's going going on off the pitch.
00:38:07
Speaker
But then I look at him and go, help yourself out on the pitch. He doesn't help himself out by being so stubborn and playing players out of position and and all of this. So I'm like...
00:38:20
Speaker
you You can only control what what you can control, right? You're the manager. So everything that's going on, you might not have the players to play ah your system and that might not be your fault.
00:38:32
Speaker
But the club have backed you in the summer when they said they weren't going to, when they said they were running out of money. So you've got some players in. Don't get me wrong, we we need a lot more players, but you've got some players in.
00:38:44
Speaker
This season was the season to go, you know rock you know what, forget about last season, let's really kick on. But there's been literally no progress since last season. It's just a continuation of last year.
00:38:57
Speaker
So when you look at it and go, what what can we do? You've left us with no other option than, yeah, we've got problems all over the club, but you're not helping yourself. We're not getting results.
00:39:09
Speaker
So what what can we do here? So that's why I'm like, look, I like the guy, but just i i need to see progress from him who would you bring in you know like every single time you brought in a new manager you're just back to the same thing yeah you know we saw it with ollie we've seen it with ten haag and now we're seeing with the amirim and it's just it there's no progress over the years getting new managers either so yeah i think this is the time where you've got a genuinely very good manager who's stubborn in their approach and He's still got you to a Europa League final last season.
00:39:41
Speaker
And um I mean, you've won three games this season. That's better than the form you were in last season when you were averaging a point a game or whatever it was. um So I think you need to just stick with him for a bit longer.
00:39:54
Speaker
And I said this about Ten Hag as well. I never think you should have sacked Ten Hag because he won you three domestic trophies, and unless I'm mistaken. So... it Was it two? It was two. um you know My point stands. you know That's a manager who still has success with a very awful club. And I still am stunned at what happened to him over with Leverkusen, where he was sacked after a month or whatever it was.
00:40:20
Speaker
um Maybe you could go back to him. but i don't know. I think the reason Almorin, to be honest, the main reason why Almorin is still in a job is is because our owners don't want to admit to another fault almost.
00:40:34
Speaker
So it's almost like because we've hired and then sacked and hired and sacked and hired and sacked, they're almost sitting there going, we should probably do the same with this guy, but we're going to look like mugs again.
00:40:46
Speaker
And and that is that is, I think, the main reason why Almorin's still there, because if that's any other manager like Tenog or Ole or whoever, they're probably gone, to be honest.
00:40:57
Speaker
And on your point in in terms of who do we get, that's thequet that's that that's another reason why Almorin is still probably in a job because we've tried nice guy Oli. We've tried Mourinho, who ruffles a few feathers.
00:41:11
Speaker
We've tried Ten Hag. We've tried Van Holl. We've tried so many different managers from all different backgrounds and not one of them has worked. So now we we're trying Almorin and it's not looking like it's working. and I mean, Roy Keane, I saw last week said he would like to see Simeone in there.
00:41:27
Speaker
which, to be honest, that i I wouldn't mind Simeone. A bit Simeone chaos on on the touchline. Why not? Simeone Bruno. I'd also like see Xavi, you know? Xavi, obviously, he had his stint at Barcelona, did really well for Barcelona. I can't see that happening. I'd like to see that as well. Wow. Yeah, anyone really but Amarin at the minute, to be honest. yeah Jim Radcliffe kind of intimated that he wants to give Amarin time, right? He wants it to to to see him see out his contract at least, right? Which, do you not think that... I know you've just said that, you know, ah but they're not sacking him because they don't though they don't want to look stupid. And I'm sure that that's there's an element of that.
00:42:10
Speaker
But surely I think there's also... the fact that they've got to do something different. And the different that think that they've got to do is not sack someone after 18 months, is to say, right, you know what?
00:42:22
Speaker
We're going to give you the three years, okay? and Because, what you I mean, you... It can't be any worse, right? you You're sacking managers after 18 months and, you know, the the team is still kind of mid-table. They're not challenging.
00:42:37
Speaker
And so how much worse can it get? um i mean, you never know. But how much worse can it get if you just say to Amarin, look, you know what? you're you're going to We're going to give you that three years.
00:42:49
Speaker
But the thing is, if it's okay, three years, fine. His first year, we finished, what, 15th, was it, like last year? um I reckon the club have said to him, just forget about first year. oh okay foods Okay, but you can't really forget about the first year because if he's got three years in his job, like Radcliffe's saying, you've got first year and 15th.
00:43:11
Speaker
This year, we're we're on track for for a bottom-half finish, probably. And then in his third year, yeah i mean, we're probably, if you've got two out of three years finishing the bottom half, likelihood is third year, we're probably going to finish in bottom half again.
00:43:27
Speaker
And if we're three years, Manchester United finishing in the bottom half of the Premier League, What have our standards come to? Really, what have our standards come to? That's the club you are at the moment. i'm I'm sorry to say it, but that's you are now. standards as a club come to where we go, you know what, we're not going to sack you as a manager. We're going to give you a contract, even though you're finishing three years bottom half of the prem.
00:43:50
Speaker
Like, come on, what are we doing here? You know, with the squad that you have, I'm sorry to say it, but that's the team you are because... You've kind of been left behind now.
00:44:01
Speaker
Everyone's advanced. Everyone's built on this squad rather than just signing players based on how they're doing at other clubs, whether or not they'll be good in this system and just hoping it works, hoping it gels.
00:44:13
Speaker
And if not, try a new manager. It's not how it works. And your clubs, you need to look at what's actually happening in the internal of the club, the board, who they're signing, and not just basing it on how they're doing at Ajax, let's say, for example, with Anthony and then paying them 200 grand a week.
00:44:31
Speaker
Same with Sancho. You know, that that's just who you are now. So it's not down to the management. And that's why I think you've got a genuinely good manager with Ruben Amarim. That's who we tried to get before we went for Arna Slott.
00:44:44
Speaker
And you know, what and up it's interesting that you say that though, Louis, because we wait We didn't try to get him He was on a shortlist, right? He was on a shortlist. And apparently the reason... try get him.
00:44:56
Speaker
No, no, he was on a shortlist. But we didn't we didn't try. it We didn't make an offer. So he was on a shortlist. And the reason that we didn't move forward to making an offer to him was that the recruitment team flagged that if we bring Ameren in... And he here ah they said, look, he ticks a lot of the boxes.
00:45:14
Speaker
But if we bring him in... It's a radical tactical departure from Jurgen Klopp. And that you've got got you've got to do that all the way through the the levels of the club. And they just said it was too risky to go from a Jurgen Klopp style to Amorim.
00:45:30
Speaker
And that the the the safer option, the the the one that's got more synergy, is Arne Slott. um and And what a sliding doors moment, right?
00:45:41
Speaker
What sliding doors moment that, you know, he goes to Manchester United and it it actually plays out that he's his tactics are such a radical departure from Ten Hag.
00:45:52
Speaker
It's just like, it's you' just you're just going from one extreme to another and it's really difficult. but But this is the thing, Jesse, with yeah United managers in the past, you ah you have been going from one extreme to the other. Lourinho, Van Gaal, Ole,
00:46:06
Speaker
Ten Hag, they all play different styles of football. They all want to bring in their own players. And then you bring in a manager, yeah he tries to implement his style, he brings in his own players, and then he sacks that manager. So that means you bring in a new manager with the old manager's players.
00:46:23
Speaker
So it's just ah it's just a reoccurring thing. And I mean, of course, you guys want us to keep armouring him anyway. Yeah. not even about that it's just i think if you're going to be it is really enough for me genuinely it isn't because it's it's it doesn't matter to me which manager you get in because your club will always just sign the biggest most attractive names that are open in the market whether or not they're a fit for your club and just hope it works and when it doesn't they'll blame the manager
00:46:55
Speaker
it's We've seen it time and time again. I don't care about Amarim, but I'm just saying there's no point in sacking him and giving him, what was it, 12 million in compensation ah to sack him and then just have someone else who will have the exact same effect on the club. So no, it's not about that at all. Anyway, I think it's time to take a break because we are 46 minutes in and and um we will talk more about Liverpool up next.
00:47:26
Speaker
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