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Episode 95 Jeff Barnes
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In this episode of Sharing the Magic, we dive into the enchanting world of Disney with special guest Jeff Barnes, a passionate storyteller and author known for his insights on the magic behind the brand. Jeff shares his journey from a young Disney enthusiast to a recognized expert in the field, discussing the lessons he's learned about creativity, leadership, and the power of storytelling.
Join us as we explore the rich history of Disney, uncovering the secrets that make it a beloved global icon. Jeff also offers valuable tips for aspiring creators and dreamers, encouraging listeners to tap into their own potential and embrace the magic in their everyday lives.
Whether you're a Disney fan or simply curious about the art of storytelling, this episode is packed with inspiration and insight. Be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform to catch all our episodes and keep the magic alive!
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Transcript
Introduction of 'Sharing the Magic' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that sweeps you away into the enchanting realms of Disney. Each week, we're joined by a special guest, be it a magician casting real-life spells of wonder, or a Disney expert revealing hidden secrets in the heart of the happiest place on Earth.
00:00:20
Speaker
Together, we'll venture down glittering paths, uncovering tales of daring heroes, legendary places, and whimsical wonders that make Disney sparkle.
00:00:31
Speaker
So prepare to be enchanted, delighted, and transported to a place where dreams dance, fairy tales breathe, and the magic is real.
First Episode of 2026 with Favorite Guests
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of Sharing the Magic. I'm your host, Barry, and... ah We are starting 2026, so this will be the first episode of 2026. And we're doing something a little different this month. This month we're going to be bringing back some of our favorite guests.
00:01:03
Speaker
We're going to talk to them throughout the month, so get ready for that. And... um I'm really excited because we have a three-time guest tonight.
00:01:16
Speaker
So before we introduce him, we're going to say hello to our co-hosts and we'll start with Dawn. Dawn, are doing tonight? Howdy from Houston. Happy New Year, everybody. and I believe I was on before when i when you were a guest and i can always learn something from all our guests, especially from you. So I'm super excited.
00:01:38
Speaker
All right, next we have Angela. Angela, how are you doing? I am great. Hello from Memphis, and I hope everyone everyone's having a great start to the new year. Can't wait to hear all of your magic.
00:01:50
Speaker
right, we have Ashley. Ashley, how you doing I'm doing good. Hello from um or sunny or Orlando, or should i say chilly Orlando right now. I'm glad to be back
Meet the Co-hosts
00:02:00
Speaker
with everybody. Happy New Year. and Jeff, I can't wait to hear about your latest book and you and Lindsay's latest adventures.
00:02:09
Speaker
All right. Next we have Amy. Amy, how you doing? Hey, Barry. Amy Spencer here. I'm really excited to talk to Jeff and and Lindsay too. And checking in from Walt's hometown, Marceline, Missouri. anyway Very nice.
00:02:26
Speaker
All right. We also have Heather. Heather, how you doing? Hey, everybody joining from um Ashley, you said you were cold. We're in like the negative temperatures in New York today. So ho are frozen and ah Jeff ready for you to spread some magic and warmth into my life.
00:02:46
Speaker
All right. well We also have Lisa. Lisa, how you doing? Hi everyone. I first met Jeff when um he was at the Indy Disney meet a few times. I was part of that crew for a long time. But recently, you as you guys know, I transed transplanted to Central Florida. So it's not near as cold as Indianapolis. So this is wonderful. Can't wait to talk about everything tonight.
00:03:13
Speaker
all right. Next we have Venerina. How are you doing? Hi, I'm doing okay I've had a cold the past few days, but I'm getting better. I'm in Florida and I can't wait to hear Jeff share the magic.
00:03:29
Speaker
All right, and then we have Rachel. Rachel, how are you doing? I'm doing good in Pensacola, Florida. I am looking forward to round three with our guests. I was part round two. And it was a really, really good adventure. i really enjoyed listening to what whatever he had to say. So looking forward to it.
Jeff's Disney Journey
00:03:50
Speaker
All right. And joining us for the first time is Natalie. How are you doing? Hi, everyone. i am joining you all from Claremont, Florida. I am so excited to be here. um This is obviously my first time. And I'm just so excited to hear what Jeff has to say about the most magical place on Earth.
00:04:11
Speaker
All right. Last but not least, it's the man of the hour himself, Jeff. Jeff Shaver, how are you doing tonight, buddy? You need to have a different name for me because when we have, I don't meet many Jeffs, but when I meet a fellow Jeffs, I've never met a Jeff I didn't like. So, but ah I don't know. Okay. So I've been thinking, should I, I've done this before.
00:04:35
Speaker
Should we because I always welcome my our guests, a goofy goish my goofy voice. So I welcome with with some goofy. Now I have some written, but is it more fun for y'all if we kind of put it together and then I just go, okay, here we go. i don't want to spend too much time on it. Or should I just go for it?
00:04:56
Speaker
let's Go for it, man. Go like go for it. I think it's fun to go, what would you want Goofy to say to welcome our guests? And then I think it's fun because it's challenging. it's like okay But all right. ah Here's what I would say. I was like thinking about something like, Gorge, Laya Jeff, and Lindsay.
00:05:13
Speaker
You know, sometimes the smartest wisdom from the places come or something like that. Come from the place you least expect. Like cartoons, land daydreams, land a fella named Walt Disney.
00:05:28
Speaker
Okay. Welcome. well That's pretty awesome. I've been working hard at it. I've been working hard. And we're we're interviewing Bill in a couple weeks. was going to say, you're going to give Bill Farmer a run for his money.
00:05:41
Speaker
Don't say it. he's He's a saint in my house. I call him Saint Bill. he's He's a sweetheart. yeah and But i I protect his voice. I want to be so good at it. that ai will never reproduce it and nobody else i'm like i i want to i just i like i'm a guardian of it i just want i love it artist so anyways okay let's move on let's get this here show on the road all right so our guest tonight is not one but two we have jeff and lindsey burns joining us how are you guys doing
00:06:17
Speaker
We're great. um We're in Southern California this week, ah home for the holidays, if you will. And man, we've just been getting storm after storm after storm, which is great because we need the rain and it hasn't been like too much or overwhelming or, you know, causing any real flood situations. We were at Disneyland yesterday and it was a wet day.
00:06:41
Speaker
and be mobbed. Like normally, um because it's very much a locals park, if it rains, everybody stays home. But because we're still in that holiday window, um I've never seen it that wet and that crowded at the same time. It was insane.
00:06:59
Speaker
That's crazy. Yeah, I was um i was in Disneyland Paris at the beginning of December, and um seeing that park compared to Walt Disney World, as that's the only other park I've been to, and the...
00:07:16
Speaker
the the way the crowds are, it's just mind-blowing because it's just like, it's just like, where are all these people in Paris? Nobody comes here. And it's like, you go to Walt Disney World and you can't even breathe. You go, you know, you go two steps and you're surrounded by people. So, um so Jeff, you know, you've been here a couple of times. So for anyone who's new, why don't you go ahead and tell us, you know,
00:07:46
Speaker
Why you both fell in love with Disney. And each other. but Oh, that's, uh, those are some long stories. So I, uh,
00:07:58
Speaker
I grew up in the Panhandle of Florida, first Disney park, Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom when I was about 10 years old and just instantly fell in love with it.
00:08:09
Speaker
Now, my parents had been to Disneyland about three years before I was born, and I heard those stories growing up and couldn't wait to get to California, couldn't wait to get to Southern California, couldn't wait to go to Disneyland the first time.
00:08:22
Speaker
And that finally happened in August 88. And I absolutely hated it. It was too small. it was too underwhelming. it was hot. It was crowded. Waited three hours for Star Tours. I i just didn't get it. um But I've always been like insatiably curious. And so the fact that I didn't get it led me to start doing research on Walt Disney himself. And as much as I loved Magic Kingdom as a kid, I fell even more in love with the Walt Disney story. And of course, that story includes an impoverished childhood, difficult relationship with his dad, bankrupt by age 21, more failures than successes. And even at age 53, when he was building Disneyland, um Nobody believed in it to include his own wife and his own brother. And I was like, wow. Like, I didn't get any of that when I went to Disneyland. And so when I returned a few years later, i looked at the entire park and all of the stories that the park tell through that lens. And it has been an obsession for
00:09:32
Speaker
ever since. um So much so that when I was in higher ed and was dean of student success, I created a college course on the history of Disneyland, not to focus on it as an amusement park, but to focus on it as a story that students in Southern California could emulate to see their own goals, their own dreams, and their own success come true. Now, Lindsay,
00:09:58
Speaker
Lindsay grew up in Southern California and used to be able to see the Disneyland fireworks from her bedroom window. She had a ah completely different origin story and um had never been to Walt Disney World until we got together. And it's been 14 times in the last three years. So I'll shut up and let her talk a little more.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, Disneyland for me has always just been a thing. I don't, like growing up so close to it, I never really realized how much people like Jeffrey yearned to go there their whole life. And so i had passes growing up for a lot of the years. And it was interesting because eventually, a couple of years before COVID, I got so sick of it because we would go all the time and it felt like it was getting really crowded.
00:10:49
Speaker
And then I didn't go for years. And when I went with Jeffrey, it was one of the first times I had gone back. And I had never seen the park in that light at all because he had all of these historical facts to share and was just pointing different things out. And it was incredible. That's a nice way of saying I didn't shut up the entire time.
00:11:09
Speaker
you didn't. But it was really cool. And then getting to go to Walt Disney World was crazy. i I am not one that cries very often. And I actually teared up on Main Street because it was so weird to like, I know Main Street so well, it feels like I grew up there. But here I am in Walt Disney World and it's massive and it's more vibrant, I would say. And the castle is just like towering over you. It was an incredible experience. And now it's like one of our favorite places, I would say. Yeah, um to the point where the number one argument in our marriage is which park has the better Space Mountain, Disneyland.
00:11:50
Speaker
Our, you know, Magic Kingdom Walt Disney World. Now, to be fair to Lindsay, she has made me a bigger fan of not just Space Mountain, but Magic Kingdom in Florida. And that just has to do with the number of memories that we've created there together. It's where we went on our honeymoon two years ago. Yeah.
00:12:12
Speaker
We don't do the special events here in California because we can go any day and every day. um The Halloween party, gosh, we've been three out of the last four years. um Absolutely one of our favorite anythings to do. And and this year we had the opportunity to take Lindsay's mom, which was
Upcoming Book on Disney and Relationships
00:12:30
Speaker
really special. And so...
00:12:33
Speaker
It's not that, you know, Disneyland is better or Magic Kingdom is better, um although there are arguments for both of those, right? um It really is about where you make those memories, which for me gets to the heart of what Walt wanted. Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
His vision for a place where parents and children, families could have fun together. And Lindsey and I have the most fun when we're at a Disney park, doesn't matter which one. And we branch out to other theme parks as well. Ashley saw us at Epic. when we were there for a cast, not cast member, but a pass holder preview in in May. and We go to Knott's Berry Farm. We were at King's Island when we were in Ohio slash Indianapolis back in September. There's not a theme park we haven't been to that we don't love in some form or fashion.
00:13:24
Speaker
I love that. And I think, you know, you all, I don't know what, okay, so if you want to describe your theme, the new The new book, the new project that you you all are writing, I think that's a great springboard for the conversation because you've already kind of touched on it as far as, you know, one of the things that you both love to do, it seems, whether it's Disney or just theme parks, says you have a kind you have common interests and you you love sharing experiences of these theme parks. and but There's adventure, there's... ah there's food to share. There's, you know, drinks to share there, whatever, whatever it is, there's, there's things that, that unite you as a couple. And, And I think that's wonderful. and But yeah but ah you do we want to go there? Is that something we you want to talk about a little bit? and maybe We're happy to go there. Let's do it.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah. So our new project for 2026, one of our new projects, is a Disney-based relationship book titled Nothing Can Stop Us Now, Timeless Tips for Your Happily Ever After. Yeah.
00:14:29
Speaker
And it is all written um through the lens of Disney, meaning we take sort of relationship 101 advice that most of us have probably heard.
00:14:44
Speaker
but in the throes of the relationship to easily forget. And we leverage those lessons through the lens of Disney. And oh, by the way, along the way, share our own story, our own challenges, where we have succeeded, where we have failed. And it's it's something that we love. We loved working on and we can't share it. We can't wait to share it with the rest of the world.
00:15:11
Speaker
Lindsay? Yeah, I'm super excited about it. It's already written. We just need to edit it at this point. And um kind of just like a testament to something in relationships is it takes both of our strengths. And so his, I mean, he he has obvious academic strengths um given that he has his PhD and was in higher ed for 22 years.
00:15:32
Speaker
ah But he's also incredible at creative writing, which is a little bit of a weakness for me. And so it was really fun combining my more academic and research-based writing with his creative writing and coming up with something that I think is really interesting and easy to follow. But like Jeff mentioned, something that people often forget about in the heat of a moment or, you know, they're angry. So it's been a really fun experience.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah. So, for example, um you know one of my favorite chapters is titled Expectations Everest. And, you know, a lot of times our level of happiness, particularly in relationships, is based on what are the expectations going on going in.
00:16:17
Speaker
You know, is our partner meeting our expectations? Are we meeting our partner's expectations? Is that even a conversation that we've had or are having along the way? And I tell the story of how Animal Kingdom, at least when it first opened, was a little bit of a disappointment for folks because it didn't meet what?
00:16:39
Speaker
expectations and it wasn't until they put ah Everest in that people were like wow that's a you know must do kind of a park and so again you know we talk about expectations we talk about the original story of Animal Kingdom. We talk about, you know, putting ah Expedition Everest in and the importance of, you know, keeping the magic, keeping the thrill alive in your, you know, own relationship. That's one of my favorite chapters. what about for you?
00:17:11
Speaker
well I think we write we have a chapter on personality differences and personality types and but how um they can clash, but also those areas that they tend to clash, they oftentimes have equal parts where they complement each other, which is kind of what I was talking about with um us writing this book. And in there, I talk about how when we were going through our premarital counseling on paper, we literally took this test. It was called Symbus, which is saving your marriage before it starts. And on paper, we were not compatible at all. And ah that obviously terrified both of us. But I don't know that we could be more compatible because we're more like each other than we realize. And where he falls short, I pick up and vice versa. So that that chapter, I think, is super interesting. And Do you talk about Walt and Roy in that chapter? Yeah. So that chapter, is it's based on um a relationship construct that I think a lot of people are familiar with, Enneagram. How many of you have ever heard of Enneagram? So that chapter is titled Enneagram Studios.
00:18:23
Speaker
And we, you know, lay out this idea of um being in a relationship where you're emotionally bankrupt because Laugh at Graham Studio went what?
00:18:37
Speaker
bankrupt, right? And then Walt had to start all over with Roy. um And, you know, they took that bankruptcy and flipped it into what today is the largest entertainment company anywhere in the world. And the difference between the two studios, i.e. Laugh-O-Gram and the Disney Brothers studio, the difference wasn't Walt.
00:19:00
Speaker
The difference was Roy and they complemented each other and it was a phenomenal partnership. And yeah, they had to deal with differences and they had to deal with challenges in that relationship throughout. So again, we tell that story. We also lay out the important construct of the Enneagram. And how the things that your partner are doing or the things that they are that, you know, drive you up a freaking wall. um
00:19:31
Speaker
If you learn how to see them differently yeah and leverage them differently, um it can become a strength rather than a weakness. On the Enneagram, you think Walt was?
00:19:43
Speaker
um I have absolutely no doubt he's a seven. I'm a seven. I was like, almost oh my yeah I you'd
Improving Relationships through Personality Types
00:19:50
Speaker
say that. I'm seven too. yep Okay, all right all right. Good. I was hoping I can calm down now.
00:19:59
Speaker
But again, sevens can be great if you've got a partner, and specifically a partner with the right number. yeah and you know Lindsey and I, we started hanging out, gosh, four years ago this month. and originally It was like, um I mean, we we i mean we were we weren't compatible. We enjoyed hanging out together and we were certainly becoming you know close and fast friends. But in terms of a long term track, like how in the heck is this going to work?
00:20:34
Speaker
um But we did the work to include the Enneagram. and came to understand that, you know, we really are a perfect pairing when we focus, you get more whatever you focus on, right? When we focus on the strengths of the seven or the strengths of the one and the two um versus, ah you know, the the the not so good.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and ah you think of, i jeff Jeff, we've actually had this conversation, I think before, it's all coming back to me, but about, you know, Well, think of like ah Steve Jobs and was you got to have a was to a Steve Jobs. You need a Roy to a Walt. You need a Frank Wells to a Michael Eisner. Yes, you do.
00:21:18
Speaker
Absolutely. A hundred percent. And I think I think in relationships, whether it's friendships or whether it's maybe a marriage, you know, those those things, those were those kind of balances, you know, and but it's like you grow together where you you learn about each other. This is what I think. This is, this is how I think I know what I think. I'm not sure if it's true, but I took the disc test and I had, a I was on a board and they were, we're all button heads with each other. And it was, it was,
00:21:48
Speaker
tense and we all took this disc test and it was like oh now i see why when you communicate this way i think you're yelling at me but you're really just wired this way and then they're like well i thought you were this way but you're really actually okay now i get you now but when you understand the person who they are then i think that's where whether it's a friendship or a marriage or or or a board of people, whatever it is, and you're a leader.
00:22:18
Speaker
Well, when you realize, oh, you know, this person isn't a broken, you know, that they're, they're just different. They're just different than i am. They're not wrong. They're different. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:30
Speaker
and I have ah have a question. oh ahead angel I was just going to say, was there a specific disaster or magical moment as you were building this relationship that you both looked at each other because you're you know smart, analytical, and you thought, we've got to write this down. It can save somebody along the way.
00:22:47
Speaker
um What kind of started you on that journey?
Importance of Shared Interests in Relationships
00:22:51
Speaker
So I'll answer that and then I'll let Lindsay answer her version of it. um So we actually broke up at one point.
00:23:00
Speaker
um And, you know, it's sort of like ah what they refer to when, you know, Walt called Herb Ryman over to do the map. and um they had their quote-unquote lost weekend. Lindsay and I had a lost weekend where we broke up on a Friday night and decided by Monday that, yeah, we don't want to like keep doing this without each other, so you know let's let's figure out a way forward. um but But then... i love that.
00:23:33
Speaker
I think recognizing that Like so many people just assume that this would be over by now.
00:23:44
Speaker
um especially given the age gap, right? And we're like, no, like this this works. It doesn't have to work for you, but it certainly works for us. And we wanna take what we know, what we've learned, what we've experienced, and genuinely try to help people, genuinely try to help relationships, genuinely try and and and and save marriages. um Because so much of your happiness and so much of your success is baked in to your partner.
00:24:17
Speaker
If it's working, everything's working. And if that sucks and is falling apart, you know, good luck at work. yeah Good luck with your hobbies. Good luck with your kids, right? um You know, it's it's all going to go down. And so... um Lindsay especially has a passion for, you know, taking these relationship constructs and working with people. Again, she's been in, you know, number of relationship, um you know, classes providing help and providing support. And, you know, I'm sort of the motivational, inspirational, let's tell a Disney story guy. And, you know, we realized that that combo, you
00:25:00
Speaker
could be like super powerful. And we were coming home one day, not from Disneyland, but from Universal Studios Hollywood. And I'll let you tell the rest the story.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah, I was just like sitting in the car thinking about how many Disney books there were. And we had talked about how we wanted to write a book together. And in my mind, I'm like, well, everybody's written some sort of Disney book. Like, I don't want to just be another whatever that's been written 15 And i just randomly thought about like, well, what if we write a Disney relationship book? And I think before I even told him, I started looking on Amazon and all of the
00:25:45
Speaker
book sites to try and find one. And I couldn't find even one. no there's business books, there's history books, there's leadership books. There isn't a relationship book. Yeah, which I thought that was pretty crazy because even historical part of Disney aside, every single Disney story has some sort of romantic aspect to it, which we do include a lot in the book as well. Oh, yeah yeah. We have characters and all of that. Oh, essentially. Yeah. So I mentioned it to him and we immediately started writing down a chapter. Oh yeah. We had a whole book before we got home. Yeah. And I was taking wholes them for some of like the courses that I worked for, I was taking like the key points and then, so for instance, this is his genius work.
00:26:31
Speaker
um We were talking about using i statements instead of you and what, what title did you you come up with? Yeah. So, you know, when you're fighting with your partner or fighting with anyone, um the temptation is to say, well, you did this and you said that and you always, right?
00:26:48
Speaker
As opposed to, you know, I feel this way or I noticed, right? And so that whole relationship idea of i statements versus you statements got translated into temple of the forbidden you.
00:27:05
Speaker
Oh, that's cool. Can you unpack that just like a little bit? Because I'm like, all right, you got it got me hooked. all yeah Well, in speaking of hooked, we have an entire chapter on conflict titled Peter Pan's Fight.
00:27:20
Speaker
My husband has now joined the room. This is now fit couples therapy. I'm sure everybody's got a partner in the room now. like Because here's the thing about conflict. We learn how to fight with our partner from whom?
00:27:33
Speaker
Well, it's usually the man's fault. I'm just kidding. Right? And Peter Pan never wanted to what? Grow up. If we don't grow up and get past what we learned as kids from our parents, good luck with that.
00:27:49
Speaker
oh that's That's nail on the head. Yep. and And again, like if if you go into a relationship and think you're not going to have conflict,
00:28:00
Speaker
um you really are in fantasy land. Yes. No kidding. And so you have to be equipped and you have to be prepared and you have to have the tools to deal with the conflict, not if it shows up, but when it inevitably shows up. Do you do you have like a scenario in which I agree 100% and I've heard this from, i don't know, multiple people. It's like, it's not if you fight, it's how you fight, right?
00:28:28
Speaker
oh absolutely. But then, There's some people that are conflict avoidant and they don't, they just sweep it under the rug and before you know it, it blows up. So I think that's interesting. Is there any insight you have maybe into something like that where, where, what is the courage to fight?
00:28:46
Speaker
impossible Well, is anyone familiar with attachment theories? Yes. So we tackle that in the book as well. And Lindsay's anxious. I'm avoidant.
00:28:58
Speaker
yeah. and and and and And that was a huge issue. i Probably the number one issue yeah for why we had the so-called lost weekend, right? um Because I was avoiding things. I was holding on to things. um You know, I was, you know...
00:29:19
Speaker
whatever. And that was creating for her a lot of anxiety. it was like just, you know, a recipe for disaster. Yeah. And it flip flops. I think attachment styles are, you know, someone could be like, you know, avoidance and then they are suddenly anxious and, and then, you know, cause, and that's, that's a hybrid. It's like anxious, avoid it, but then it's like, okay, Hey everyone, let's get to secure, secure, you know, right that's what, that's the dream.
00:29:47
Speaker
But, and I love how you bring, okay, so if you bring Disney into that, it's like in relationships, I think this is fascinating because the story the story element of it and the Disney element of it And how I'm sure you're going to do this. I just I know you enough where I go. I know Jeff's going to do this. And Lindsay, too. Now, it's like I'm sure that you both have brought in Disney stories and Disney whatever it is to to sort of shape. And we say we this is our podcast so much right now. Stories shape life.
00:30:25
Speaker
And it's the stories that shape not only our individual lives, but it could shape relationships too. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. and Okay. So what story here is my question? What story? Okay. If, if you're in a, and it like what, in your opinion is a healthy relationship in the Disney world, like a secure attachment style that's secure, secure.
00:30:50
Speaker
I'm in the middle of pulling up the document right now because it's been a while since we've written this. But one that I do know that isn't really answering your question, but kind of is, is like I use Elsa as an example of avoidant because there were so many opportunities for her to just kind of like come clean and like tell um Anna why she's avoiding her. And she didn't. She just avoided, avoided, avoided. And then it all literally blew up. And so that's an example of avoidant. um And then anxious, I'm going to have to check, but I'll let you take over. What about like a secure, secure?
00:31:27
Speaker
like I mean, we cover all of them, so she's going to... Okay, I'll wait for the book. She's going to have to look them up. But this a lot of people don't realize this. um and And this drove a lot of the early ideas in the book.
00:31:42
Speaker
A, Minnie Mouse appears in Steamboat Willie. She is with Mickey from the very beginning. And that role that relationship, in my opinion, is secure, secure.
00:31:58
Speaker
Like, there's no doubting it. There's no questioning it. yeah It's not like she just showed up, you know, three episodes in because, you know, Mickey needed a sidekick.
00:32:09
Speaker
No, that's Donald. That's Pluto. That's Goofy, right? Minnie's there from, you know, the very, very beginning. And yet, oddly enough, it's not until Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway that we get a Mickey and Minnie-focused attraction, which I think is absolutely crazy, right? um And it's possible, think about this.
00:32:30
Speaker
Walt wanted to be remembered as a great storyteller. Every great story doesn't require a happily ever after ending. It requires conflict. It's possible that they waited so long because there just wasn't any conflict there.
00:32:44
Speaker
It's what? Secure secure. And in fact, it takes bringing Goofy in and a railway trip at the at the park for things to go you know haywire. But those issues have nothing to do with Mickey and Minnie's relationship.
00:33:02
Speaker
I love that. All right, someone. someone um' i I have a question. go Let's get Don in here. Okay, so this is not so much about I think your topic relating to Disney with relationships, which is interesting. And I'm trying to wrap my head around that because that's totally foreign when people think of Disney. But I had my own personal experience where I was married for quite some extensive time and my ex-husband hated Disney. So there there's a little bit of a take on that. Like, do you feel like people can be
00:33:34
Speaker
Clearly it didn't work in my situation, but do you think people can be married and remain in a happy marriage if someone is over the extreme and loves Disney and wants to go and partake in Disney, you know, adventures, both cruises and parks and have things in their home, whatever, and is excited about topics, podcasts um on something. And then the spouse or boyfriend or family member, I guess, whoever friend does not like.
00:34:03
Speaker
um Disney whatsoever. That would be to me a very interesting topic because I know i wasn't the only one in that situation. I see Lindsay touching you. She wants to say something so bad. I was going to say I can go first if you yeah So ah I was actually thinking about this in a similar way a couple of nights ago. We went to an Ontario rain game, which is a minor league affiliate of the Los Angeles Kings. And then the next night we went to a Kings game and I saw this older couple and they both had their old Kings jerseys on. And I just thought it was the cutest thing ever. And then next to them was another couple. sitting down eating and they were just like scrolling on their phone. This was before the game. So it wasn't at the game yet. And I was thinking about the importance of having shared interests and how it really, i don't know if it's make or break in many situations, but if you don't have shared interests, then I just don't know how it works very well.
00:35:02
Speaker
And especially with Disney, right? Because like yeah that's very immersive. We're not talking about I'm going to my knitting class. We're talking about a vacation with a family. Well, it's immersive for you, Dawn. almost sounds religious. i well and almost yeah It's funny you say that. The Bible specifically talks about being unequally yoked.
00:35:23
Speaker
And we naturally assume that that has to do with religion and faith. And it obviously it does, but it applies to so many other areas. Yeah.
00:35:34
Speaker
I thought it meant I could egg him. No, but mean, it's all open to interpretation, right? what What I was getting at, though, just to say one last thing, is that I spent all of my children's vacations with my friends at Disney or my sister with my kids at Disney. And he went twice in 26 years, and basically because my son had a gymnastics meet and he worked for that. But it was like a stick in the mud those two times. So I was like, oho yeah, I don't want to do that again. But I just think it's so important because, yes, you should be equally yoked. And that you said could be religion. or But also that is you can maybe have different hobbies. But that is so important to me that that is such a big part of my life and that it was just didn't fit.
00:36:21
Speaker
So here's here's a reality. And Lindsay and I were just talking about this the other day. Opposites to attract, right? we've We've heard that an entire life. um But opposites more often than not don't stay together.
00:36:36
Speaker
Because that polarity, right, creates endless amounts of conflict when you try to build a life together. Right? And i can we're coming up on the four year anniversary. It'll be January 9th when Lindsay texted me that she loves baseball and listens to Cubs games on the radio.
00:37:01
Speaker
I knew that moment that I was going to end up marrying her um because that was a shared common interest that you're just not going to find in, you know, someone her age in 2022.
00:37:16
Speaker
or three or four or five, whatever. Right. And so we have a ton of shared interests, whether it's sports, whether it's theme parks, whether it's faith. Right.
00:37:32
Speaker
And at the same time, we do have our own interest. I'm a big video game player. Um, Lindsay's dad works at Blizzard and she appreciates them and she'll play one every now and again.
00:37:48
Speaker
um But I think cumulatively in two years of marriage, she's probably played combined what I'll play in ah in a day. um Right.
00:37:58
Speaker
and And so, you know, Don, it really does like, yeah, opposites attract. you have to have shared common interests. And especially, and Disney was your number one.
00:38:10
Speaker
Oh yeah. Like if if you're not, like this is my life, this is my business. um this this This has become my career. And yeah i yeah, of course I want to have someone to to go with. And Lindsay, she'd never been to Walt Disney World. It's like, oh my gosh, let's go. Let me show you. This is amazing. You can do the compare and contrast, right? um You know, looking back on 2025, I think our three favorite days were doing epic because we had looked forward to that park opening together
00:38:45
Speaker
the entire time that we have been together. And then we were there and and we got the experience and we ran into Ashley. And it was like, it was awesome. Right. Yeah. That is not something that I would want to do alone.
00:38:59
Speaker
That's not something I would want to do by myself. Doesn't mean I don't go to Disneyland on my own. Doesn't mean Lindsay um doesn't go to Magic Kingdom on her own. If I'm in Orlando speaking. Right. Right.
00:39:12
Speaker
But, you know, you have to figure out what are the core values. And if Disney is a core value, I don't know how you're in a relationship with someone, um you know, who who hate. And there are people out there who hate it i get I met my husband on a Disney dating site.
00:39:33
Speaker
I got so tired of other dating sites and but many people that were like, yeah, um it's not going to work out if you don't like Disney. Actually, I was going to ask about that because my good friend actually created that site. What site is that? I'd crush it. Is it Mouth Mingle? Mouth Mingle, yeah. Yeah, I met him. Okay, I'm just going to stay away. was wondering if you had heard of it, Jeff and Lindsay, and what your take is on it, considering the book that you've written.
00:40:06
Speaker
um i mean, it's... I love the idea. and again, um if that is a core like non-negotiable value value, then that's a really good place to start. right um you know and i And I think the the challenge for so many of us is do you love yourself enough that you're willing to set a standard, i.e. this person has to be in on Disney.
00:40:35
Speaker
They may not have to love it as much as I do, but I don't want to be dragging around a stick in the mud who wants to go twice in 26 years. Do you love yourself enough to set a standard and stay single Until the standard is met.
00:40:54
Speaker
I would never, I would never join that site because I would be the worst. Nobody would be like, who wants to be like, like nobody would. Anyways, I digress. you you know I don't know if I would do that. I don't know if I could. i don't know. Can we just make your profile just for fun? No, if i had no. most Most men cannot make their own dating profile. There you go.
00:41:21
Speaker
That's, Very true. actually have a question kind of relating to that. Um, so do you talk about compromise in, in your book? Because that is yeah one of those things. So my husband and I, uh,
00:41:36
Speaker
we've uh what we'll be celebrating our five-year anniversary but um we that disney is not a shared interest for us it is not his favorite thing to do um just like going to camp is not a thing that i like to do so that's that's those are things that we do separately um but we also compromise and and we will do those things with each other just not all of the time so what how how do you talk about compromise and how did you relate it So the story that immediately comes to mind for me is Lindsey grew up again in Southern California.
Communication and Compromise
00:42:10
Speaker
And at the end of the day, she's very much a ah beach, ocean, surf, Southern California kind of girl. um i grew up in the panhandle of Florida.
00:42:22
Speaker
And if for no other reason, I moved away because I hate the beach. um if If it weren't for the sun, the salt and the sand, the beach would be awesome. but And early on, you're like, you know we're going to Disneyland. We're going to Disneyland. Oh, guess it's it's Tuesday. Let's go to Disneyland. And Lindsay was like, um this is great. I'm having a wonderful time. I love Disney too. Can we go to the beach? No.
00:42:50
Speaker
And then she would bring it up. No. And I was like, I'm not going to the beach. And it was really hurtful. And what I didn't realize is, and and this is this is, it's not just about compromise, it's also about communication.
00:43:09
Speaker
And Walt once said that all human problems come down to communication.
00:43:15
Speaker
She wasn't asking me to go to the beach in 95 degree heat and 100% humidity. and arrive at eight in the morning and sit there until five or six o'clock at night. Cause that's what we did as a family. And I hated every second of it.
00:43:32
Speaker
And so when she said, um can we go to the beach? I just naturally assumed that that's what she was inviting me into. And I wanted nothing to do with it.
00:43:44
Speaker
You sound like my husband. I love the beach and he hates it, but he he'll go for me. But he's like, I'm not sitting out all day. Like you can. Yeah. And that's okay.
00:43:55
Speaker
And once Lindsay explained to me, she was like, the last thing I want to do is the kind of beach day that you just described, because I would hate that too. Like for her, going to the beach is like an hour and a half, two hours. You get in the water, you surf, you do some you know body surfing, maybe you take a walk and and and you're out.
00:44:16
Speaker
Well, once I heard that, I'm like, yeah, sign me up. That sounds awesome. And so I think the key is to have a conversation, an open conversation where people are willing to understand each other and have a compromise. so for example, what is it about going to Disney that your partner doesn't like?
00:44:39
Speaker
Because my guess is um it's not all of it. it's not It's like, I hate the heat. Fine, we'll go in December. It's i hate the waiting in line, but also I am a rope drop to close person.
00:44:54
Speaker
Okay. And and it's it's good that you know that. um I guarantee, like there are ways to ah mitigate the lines, right? Right.
00:45:05
Speaker
And would you be happy if he was there for the first few hours at rope drop and then came back in the evening and you guys had dinner and, you know, saw the park together at night and enjoyed the fireworks together?
00:45:18
Speaker
So that was our compromise, actually. Yeah, exactly. You see, most people don't get to that conversation. Yeah, that's a really good sign because instead of, no, I'm not going at all, like you guys found what works for you. i think that's awesome. Yeah. like This isn't in the book. at least I don't think it is. um But I think it's a funny story.
00:45:39
Speaker
I'm a rope drop person because I'm a morning person. And like getting to the park by 8 in the morning is not a problem for me. um Lindsay is a morning person, but like the time that you have to get up and beat the traffic and get parked and go through security and be on Main Street, even here, like it's a bit much for her.
00:46:02
Speaker
So she prefers the parks at night. Well, I'm like, you know, ready to, you know, cash in my chips and climb into bed, you know, by the time the fireworks are going off. And so you kept saying, I like the park at night. I like the park at night. I like the park at night. But then when we would go at night, she didn't want to see the parade because she hates the parade. And she didn't want to see the fireworks because, you know, she doesn't like the, and I'm finally, I'm like, what is it about the night that you love so much? Because you hate everything about, and again, that became a conversation.
00:46:33
Speaker
And it became a compromise. um And so i get it. like it's How can you not like it the way that I like it? And how can you not want to do it the way that I want to do it?
00:46:47
Speaker
um The answer is they don't. um But I guarantee you there are ways to meet your partner that are going to, A, bring you closer together, and B, potentially even convert them.
00:47:03
Speaker
and and And that, like, I can remember when when I taught in higher ed, especially a a history or political science courses, my favorite students were the ones day one during the introduction who said, I hate history and or I hate political science.
00:47:22
Speaker
Oh. Because I knew i would convert them by the end of the semester. Right. And I did. i even had some who started out hating it and became history or political science majors. So maybe I'm just a masochist that way. And I you know like going on those impossible missions. um But yeah, again, like note and if if you're standing at the beach and the sun is setting and it's a gorgeous, perfect, like who's going to hate that?
00:47:54
Speaker
no one right so like what is it that you hate about it and how can we work together right to um build the bridge mitigate it yeah to build the bridge and and and i think that's that's definitely important uh something i'm working on in my own life because sometimes i'm i'm like oh I'm so polarizing sometimes, you know, but I think we all are in some certain ways. And and and ah I love that. I love that that that idea. um
00:48:29
Speaker
Okay, we got- I have ah one more question. I know there's a lot of people in the- I know, I we and i'm an am It's really short, but it has to do with liking the park. And I know Lillian herself did not love theme parks. She thought they were very- that's really good point, Dawn.
00:48:44
Speaker
She thought they were absolutely disgusting. I think that was her words. She's like, well, why are we going to build an amusement park there? phil yeah So tell me if you have heard or read anything in all of your extensive history, if they ever had that conflict or if she enjoyed to go to going to the parks, because I know he would go there and have breakfast and he was often alone. you know anything about that?
00:49:06
Speaker
Yes. So um she never fell in love with it the way that Walt did. And um Walt wanted her there. Walt wanted her by his side. And when the grandkids started arriving, sooner rather than later, he would throw them into the parade.
00:49:27
Speaker
Because Walt knew if the grandkids were in the parade, Lily couldn't resist and she'd go with him to Disneyland. And interestingly enough, that's one of the reasons why New Orleans Square gets built in 1966. The grandkids are getting older. The grandkids are starting to say, you know, hey, granddad, um we love your park and we love the parades. um I don't want to be I don't want to be in it.
00:49:52
Speaker
Like, I'm i'm good. Well, Walton Lilly's favorite American city was New Orleans. And Lily loved antiques. So he built New Orleans Square and put in very unique antique shops as an enticement to get Lily to come to Disneyland after the grandkids started saying, no, we don't want to be in the parade anymore.
00:50:15
Speaker
So I think that's compromise. yeah I think that's knowing your partner and figuring out a way to make it interesting and enticing for them.
00:50:26
Speaker
That's love for sure. Correct. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. All right. So we got someone else we got, we, I don't want to leave anyone else. Okay. Out, you know, I have a question that's kind of related, but, um, Jeff, you mentioned your, um, college course and your favorite Students are the ones that say they don't like history. But um but i I read about one of that course, the History of Disneyland that you teach.
00:50:57
Speaker
yeah And immediately I thought to myself, I i want to take that course. Of course. Is it available online? Is it? It is. um So it's offered a couple of ways, and that is completely um independent, on your own, of You know, take it at your own, you know, speed or what have you. um Send me or Lindsay an email and I'll tell you how you can sign up for that immediately.
00:51:25
Speaker
And then a couple of times a year i offer it. This is my preferred way to teach it where you do it on your own. But once a week we come together as a community And talk about the content, talk about our shared Disney experiences, and, you know, really have, you know, just a phenomenal, ah you know, group time, class time together for eight weeks.
00:51:50
Speaker
Yeah, the independent asynchronous portion is always available on the Cockerell Academy. Right. so It's cockerellacademy.com. And then what he mentioned, the class portion isn't, i don't know when we'll do that next. we haven so Yeah, we haven't talked about that for 2026, but we there will be a session.
00:52:11
Speaker
this, if you're on my blog, the Wednesdays with Walt, um that information is always updated whenever a new session is being offered.
00:52:23
Speaker
Okay, okay Excellent. That answer, Amy, that answers your question, doesn't it? It does, because you know that was the first thing I thought about. know, we were talking about it right when we before Jeff. Yes, there's nothing I love more than um than disney Disneyland. It was funny you mentioned that you went to Disneyland and you hated it. and My dad traded it in a trip that he won to Hawaii to take me to Disney World when I was like 10.
00:52:53
Speaker
And I got there and I cried because it was like not but where it was supposed to be. I ran down Main Street and took a left and like, where is Pirates? And yeah, um i I have ah grown out of that. And I do like Disney World now. this's fine but It's disorienting.
00:53:09
Speaker
Yes. it's like Because it's it's so similar And yet different. and and And you're like, what the heck? I mean, I had that experience at Disneyland Paris in 2010, Barry.
00:53:25
Speaker
yeah Disneyland Paris is way more similar to Disneyland in Anaheim than it is Magic Kingdom and Walt Disney World. Yeah, totally agree. and And I'm like, um okay, i recognize the street.
00:53:40
Speaker
I recognize, you know, the the buildings, um but it was also like 30 degrees and, you know, World War two Battle of the Bulge kind of, you know, snow happening.
00:53:54
Speaker
And so I didn't recognize the snow plows. That was something that, you know, i had not seen in Florida or Southern California. And like ah again, like the things that are exactly the same is kind of weird.
00:54:08
Speaker
But then when things are completely different, that's even weirder. It's like driving the same car in reverse. Yeah. My favorite, I'll be interested to hear what Barry has to say about this. Yeah. My favorite part of Disneyland Paris are the arcades that run behind Main Street.
00:54:25
Speaker
That was an ingenious design. They're, Beautifully done. If you want to know why Disneyland Paris almost went bankrupt after opening, just look at how much money they poured into making the arcades that run behind Main Street. And i would kill to see something similar happen at both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom Walt Disney World.
00:54:49
Speaker
Yeah, I agree because I think one of the, you know, and I've talked to the the people on the show here about, you know, because it Disney Paris felt it felt very commercial compared to the other parks because it feels like, feels like you know,
00:55:10
Speaker
You go in and and then it's just like, okay, I don't see the castle. Well, you have a hotel blocking the entrance entrance. That tells you one thing right there. That tells you one thing and how they have the security set up to the ticket area. And you have a nice little, I guess you'd call it a little grand area where you can walk around before you go in. And it and it just, it for for me personally, it just didn't feel Disney.
00:55:38
Speaker
It felt very, okay, we're going to put different aspects of Disney in, and then... you know you're going to have you know different things like the Alice, the Labyrinth. You have Peter Pan. You have things like that. But it it just you just don't get that feeling. You don't you don't get the the enthusiastic cast members around. You have a lot of them that are very straight-lined, get on the ride, let's go, get off, next, let's go. And it's just, you know...
00:56:14
Speaker
i But I think a lot of things that they've done there with ride aspects were a lot better than... I've seen at Walt Disney World, especially Phantom Manor or the Pirates of the Caribbean. oh they're way better there. Yeah.
00:56:31
Speaker
Or Big Thunder Mountain out on what would be our Tom Sawyerite. Yes. Yes. And in the dark, too. Half of it's in the dark, which is so cool. Yeah. And and and and you're right, because you you get the one feel, say, okay, it's Disney, so it's going to have to have that that Disney, but you even the nighttime ah fireworks, it just felt like, here. no You don't get excited about it, and you know, and like,
00:57:04
Speaker
I talked to ah Jeff Shaver about it, and you know I was like, you know everyone's smoking everywhere because that's just how it is. That's just Europe and things like that.
00:57:14
Speaker
But in your mindset, you're like, wait, but this is Disney. So there's a big disconnect for us. Well, for me being an American going overseas, but probably for everyone in Paris, just another you know another Wednesday. get it.
00:57:30
Speaker
so yep i get it
00:57:36
Speaker
So who's got a question? Yeah, come on. I have a completely different question. Let's go, Lisa. So what is something that people think that they know about Disney history that's actually wrong?
00:57:51
Speaker
I'm sure there's many, but. I mean, the number the number one, and I see this all the time, and I am guilty of this too. It's the first quote in my first book, chapter one.
00:58:02
Speaker
um If you can dream it, you can do it. um Everybody wants to attribute that to Walt ah to include sometimes the Disney company itself. And as I think most of you know, um,
00:58:16
Speaker
You know, that was created for Epcot's Horizon, which opened in 1983, you know, 15 years after Walt passed. It sounds like something Walt would have said, right?
00:58:29
Speaker
It's very Walt-esque. And you can, you know, get a little thing for your desk and, you know, show it off and, you know, feel very Walt-ish, right?
00:58:40
Speaker
But, um yeah, I think the second thing, and this is more Southern California, is the misunderstanding for why Disney California Adventure was built.
00:58:53
Speaker
um You know, that park is coming up on its 25th anniversary next month, um which is the 25th anniversary of massive amounts of disappointment and expectations not coming anywhere close to being met. um You know, with the original finally getting a a a second park. Well, people forget You know, the original plan was for Westcott.
00:59:16
Speaker
And then after Disneyland Paris had its economic challenges, um Eisner and the company were like, we're not doing that again. um but they were committed to creating a second gate because Anaheim needed the tax revenue to clean up the area around the park and give the two mile buffer and create what we know today as the Disneyland Resort.
00:59:45
Speaker
And so, yeah you know, the company wasn't trying to blow it out of the water with California Adventure. You know, they weren't trying to give us a ah ah Tokyo Disney Sea. um They genuinely were doing the bare minimum.
01:00:02
Speaker
to give Anaheim the tax revenue that it needed to create the Disneyland Resort and clean up the area around the park. And Imagineers were told, build it with as much capacity as possible because we're going to go in and quote unquote fix it later.
01:00:19
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened.
01:00:23
Speaker
Perfect. Makes sense. Thank you. Although I do love Goofy Sky School. Well, I'm here in for some learning. It's just, it is. Jeff, I need to hear a story again. Please ah refresh us about the importance of sitting on the bench at the park.
01:00:48
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, I'm convinced. I've been told that this isn't necessarily true and that's okay. um But I think we all have an idea, some sort of crazy thought, some sort of dream that we want to take action on. Might not change the world the way that Waltz did when he wanted to build a place where parents and children could have fun together, but it might at least change you and your world.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yeah. And the difference between us and Walt is most of us stay stuck on the bench and think it and overthink it. And Walt got up and took action.
01:01:25
Speaker
And The more he was told it wouldn't work, starting with Lilly saying, why are we going to build an amusement park? Those places are filthy. Starting with Roy saying, you've had some crazy ideas in your day, but we are not building an amusement park. Starting with the WED employees going to an amusement park convention in Chicago in the early 50s and the experts in the industry to a person hating everything.
01:01:54
Speaker
that Walt was designing in his amusement park and saying the old man has no idea what he's doing. This is going to be bankrupt, shattered and forgotten in six months or less. The more Walt heard the opposition, the more he was convinced he was on the right track.
01:02:16
Speaker
And I think for far too many of us, we overthink it. We stay stuck on the park bench. We don't take action. And when we do, the first time there's a doubter, the first time there's a naysayer, the first time there's any sort of obstacle, we just quit and go home.
01:02:34
Speaker
And Walt kept moving forward. Another favorite Lily quote, I've never seen Walt beaten at anything. mean, wouldn't you love to have a friend or a partner who would say that about you?
01:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. Never seen Jeff or Heather or Barry or Don or Lindsay or Lisa beaten at anything. I'm horrible at Mahjong, so they could definitely beat me with that.
01:03:04
Speaker
Is there one timeless tip from your book that you think that could help any couple starting today be completely unstoppable? That's good question. One timeless tip.
01:03:17
Speaker
o I think um just a quote, if I don't mind, it doesn't matter. because so often we like freak out over the smallest things that our partner does. And for my example is like ah a dish in the sink after I just emptied the sink. Which like seems to comedically happen like every single time.
01:03:47
Speaker
um And it used to be something that I would be like, what the heck? Like, do you do this on purpose? Or like, um but now it's just, it makes me kind of laugh because I'm like, yeah, that's Jeffrey. And if I don't mind, it doesn't matter because life is just too short. I know it's cliche, but it's too short to like freak out over a cup in the sink, you know?
01:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's been a really powerful mantra. Like we make a big deal out of things that if we simply had the mindset of, if I don't mind, does it really matter, allows us to move on. Lindsay has a really powerful story about that that I'm going to challenge her to share. And then I want to answer um that question. So tell the story about going down
Perspective Shift from Health Scare
01:04:30
Speaker
to Amanda's workplace and what your immediate thought was and how it shifted you into this perspective. Right. Yeah. So that dishwasher example came in the heat of, you know, I was getting frustrated about the clutter and the dishes in the sink and whatever. And the story happened. i was visiting my sister at this restaurant that she used to manage. I was taking her kids there to surprise her. and literally right behind us, this guy had a stroke. And um it was horrific, of course, seeing him have a stroke, but it was even worse seeing his wife standing there
01:05:10
Speaker
completely hopeless. She couldn't do a thing about it. And it just kept going on and on. And at one point I had her like in my arms, like this random lady, just, she's just bawling her eyes out. there iin't that anything doing it And I went home that night and I was just like completely wrecked because i thought to myself, is that lady really sitting there thinking, gosh, I'm so glad I screamed at my husband because He left that dish in the sink or he threw his socks on the ground again. or is she just wishing that she had more time with him? Unfortunately, he was OK, but it shifted my entire perspective on the little things like that. Of course, there are bigger things in a relationship that you can't just say, oh, I don't mind. um
01:05:57
Speaker
That would be avoidant. But for those little things that seem to erode relationships the most, that that has just been like the most like biggest shift that I've had the past couple of years.
01:06:10
Speaker
Yeah. And for me, it's about focusing on gratitude, um which, again, you get more of whatever you choose to focus on. And if you focus on what you value about your partner, what you appreciate about your partner,
01:06:26
Speaker
um The good things that your partner brings to the table. of if you If you appreciate the fact that they are a different person.
01:06:37
Speaker
um I don't know about you. I wouldn't want to be married to myself. That would be an abject disaster, right? um But at the same time, it's like, why do you think that way? Why why do you act that way? why Why do you not want to do what I want to do exactly the way I want to do it? what Because they're a different person. And when you find reasons To appreciate that and to be grateful for that and to be thankful for that, um your your relationship is going to get stronger and your love is is going to grow as opposed to focusing all on all of the grievances and all of the annoyances and all of the criticisms. Because again, when you do that, you are going to get more of it.
01:07:29
Speaker
I love that. Very eye-opening. As my husband's eyes are getting bigger and bigger staring at me from across the room. and that's like sort of Poor Brooks. I heard preach. Preach.
01:07:40
Speaker
preach well that the preach i heard preach preach But it's true, that's sort of the thing now too, a little bit in a sense, because you know like Mel Robbins came out a book called Let Them.
01:07:52
Speaker
Oh, I love that book. I do too. And it's like, that's that's it was helpful to don't let, you know and it is so it's slightly different than what you're saying in some respects, I think, because they're like, well, don't let Mel Robbins, don't let other people's you know behavior control you.
01:08:11
Speaker
Right. but all But it's also why do I have to control other people's behavior? You know, like just let them just let them. And I think I've been thinking about that a lot lately, you know, these tiny, they especially the tiny things that i we hyper-focus on.
01:08:28
Speaker
and or And we go, oh, that bothers me. ah I'm just, you know, chip on your shoulders. I just let them. You know life is short. Life is short. I love that. Life is short. You know, who cares? So my biggest takeaway from that book, Jeff, um i I think about this almost every day, is this idea of worrying about what other people think.
01:08:49
Speaker
We're in a age gap relationship. What do people think? Right. um You know, I quit my job to write and speak full time on Disney. What people think? um I, you know, don't put the dishes away that, you know, what does Lindsay think? Right. Yeah.
01:09:08
Speaker
But here's the truth. We have about 70 to 90,000 thoughts a day Have any of you just today had a thought where you're like, why am I thinking about that?
01:09:21
Speaker
Constantly. If you can't control your own thoughts, why do you think we can control anybody else's thoughts? Let them. Let them. yeah Right? Yeah, absolutely.
01:09:36
Speaker
And, you know, Lindsay and I, this doesn't need to work for anybody else but us. And guess what? It does. And what anybody else thinks about it ain't our problem.
01:09:48
Speaker
i think I'm so excited for this book. We're going to have to all get a copy. Have a book club. Let's go. Yeah. All right. Before, um we'll let Rachel and Venerina have a question, but I,
01:10:04
Speaker
my wisdom Walt book right here. Thank you, Barry. So, um, why don't, before we go any further, why don't you tell us about your first two books and the importance of them and what led you to where you are today? Because I think both very good. Yes.
01:10:23
Speaker
Because i think, I mean, your first book, I've read it three times because it's just so powerful. And I've learned something new every time. And I think,
01:10:34
Speaker
You break it down to, you know, people watching, people watching, people watching. and i've And I've learned to do that through your book because I think... You know, sitting at the park watching people, and I think it's the greatest thing because, you know, you see joy in young kids' eyes. You see joy in hope older people's eyes because, you know, they get it. There's something about getting it, and a lot of people don't get it.
01:11:01
Speaker
And i think you look at people and you say, all right, do they get it, or are they just here just because they have to be here? yeah so let me explain a little bit about about your books and i gotta snake this in there's two books i carry in my this is my voice acting closet so okay so it's like soundproof there's two only two books that i always i have your other book too but i i have the the voice over actor's handbook okay so like i always keep that in here but the other is yours and so very cool it's always here and and i refer to it a lot so it's an honor for you to be here and and And soon enough, you'll carry the relationship book with you into the bedroom.
01:11:42
Speaker
say That'll be on my nightstand. So um i my second trip to Disneyland, I came home saying I am going to write a Disney book one day.
01:11:55
Speaker
It was that transformative of an experience when I saw the park through Walt's eyes and through Walt's story. No idea what that meant. No clue how to do it. um Publisher market. Forget it, right?
01:12:09
Speaker
And that idea and that dream lay dormant for 25 years. And I get into higher ed and I'm teaching all sorts of different courses and I'm living the life of an administrator. And I came up with this idea after coming to Southern California of putting together a college course on the history of Disneyland.
01:12:29
Speaker
Which was a great idea, and I again wanted to leverage those stories to help students take what they knew and what they loved to see their own goals, dreams, and success come true. If I'm being 100% honest, the course was a delay and distraction from writing the book that I didn't know how to write.
01:12:49
Speaker
I knew how to teach courses because I had been doing it for years and years and years. I had no clue how to write a book, and I had a million stories for why it just wasn't possible. And pitched the Disneyland course. It gets approved. I work on it for a year. Syllabus, curriculum, textbooks, guest lecturers, field trips. And the day after giving that first lecture, I am diagnosed with a life-threatening brain tumor. and they wanted to operate immediately. I refused. They told me I had the weekend to get my affairs in order. And I said, not happening.
01:13:24
Speaker
Because i wanted the students to understand whenever you set out on this path towards success and achieving your goals, you're going to overcome obstacles. You're going to be met with obstacles. How are you going to overcome them?
01:13:36
Speaker
Well, this was a chance for me to not just teach that, but to actually live it. Now, spoiler alert, I taught the course. I had the surgery. I survived.
01:13:47
Speaker
And on the other side, I'm like, my only life regret would be I never wrote the damn book. And what had been 20, 25 years of I don't know how and, you know, woe is me, story, story, story, excuses, excuses, excuses, start to finish, wrote the first book on 142
01:14:08
Speaker
And that put me on the speaker circuit. That led to a second follow-up best-selling book, this time based on Walt's team and his dream for Walt Disney World. And then after COVID and a second brain tumor, I retired from higher ed full-time so that I could do this full-time. And now I'm married to Lindsay.
01:14:33
Speaker
We've got the relationship book coming out. um Wednesdays with Walt comes out every single Wednesday without fail, you know, to thousands of subscribers around the world. And i recorded the first Wednesdays with Walt podcast yesterday. And that will come out the very first episode on ah January 16th. So, you know, and i just wanted to finish it, if I'm being honest.
01:15:03
Speaker
um And, you know, when a couple of people bought it, I was, you know, happy that I finally had the thing out of my head and, you know, out into the world. Had no idea and no control over, you know, how it would be received and and what it has become. um But, you know, now i I live a life that many people would dream of, and that is getting paid to write, speak, and travel to Disney.
01:15:36
Speaker
Well, there you go Someone fill in the blank face. And and what's what's different about the book, um which, again, I think taught we we're talking about the standard, right? And having the courage to stick to that standard regardless.
01:15:53
Speaker
I did not want to write another Disneyland or Disney history book. They're already out there. They're great. I wasn't convinced that the market needed another one. I had been asked to write one after the history of Disneyland class became known, but I didn't want to repeat what had already been done.
01:16:13
Speaker
and you know you and and And there were Disney business books, which I've never been in corporate America. So I didn't feel like I could like do that with any sort of honesty or integrity. Instead, i wanted to use it as a vehicle.
01:16:28
Speaker
to tell Walt stories, to tell the stories that are happening in the park, share some of my own stories, and hopefully connect with you and challenge you to start living a better and
Taking Action Inspired by Walt Disney
01:16:40
Speaker
greater story. And that was the risk, because nothing like that existed.
01:16:44
Speaker
And it resonated with people. And I'm really grateful for that. And I think that's what your history teacher. That's what I was. I was going to be a history teacher. And, ah you know, those my that was my bachelor's. And I was going to be secondary ed history. And so.
01:17:00
Speaker
but But we all, we know, i mean, you know this, you're a history teacher. Why do you learn history? Well, it's the the past repeats itself itself. Thinking stories. And you do. and And all of history is, I love this book, it's called, is history fiction. And it's a book about how, just how, you know, all of history to some capacity is about stories. It's not just beep bop boop facts.
01:17:26
Speaker
you know this is what happened here no there there's a bigger it's a meta there's a meta narrative to it and and when you when you take history and you you you're a master at this you take the history the facts and the figures of disney but you plug it into the meta narrative the bigger the big story and and the big story about our lives and people and where we're going with this my favorite conversations over i guess i could say this now years you know, just a couple years or whatever since you've been here has been like, where where's history going? What's in the future? and And you're a master at that. And so, well, ah I would, next time you're on here, i would i would love to talk about some of that.
01:18:12
Speaker
but um But I thought, I think the direction, i I'm very excited for your book. I really am. thank you you got And Lindsey, you too, thank you for your contribution, I'm sure, because, You know, it's it's amazing to see you both on the podcast together. And you both are, you're you're a good team, you know, you and and you speak the same, but different.
01:18:36
Speaker
and And I think that showcases what your book is when it comes out. Like I said, it'll be on my nightstand, fine. i don't I don't own a nightstand, but i'll I'll go to Ikea. and I'll put it right there.
01:18:50
Speaker
So if I, go whatever, forever, whoever I sucker into marrying me, I'll, I'll, you know, you read the book and um who knows what can happen after that? Because the future unknowable. Hey, this leads me to one final question. If you had a Disney duo besides Mickey and Minnie that represent the Barnes dynamic, when you're working together on a project like this, who would that be? Oh, Carl and Ellie?
01:19:21
Speaker
Oh, okay, yeah. What were you going to say? ah Well, we we used to joke about Beauty and the Beast because of our personalities, but Carl and Ellie has been very much our married personality, which makes sense. Yeah. yeah I love it.
01:19:39
Speaker
Good question. love it. Yeah, that was a good question. I have one last question, too. Are Mickey and Minnie married, and if they aren't, will they ever be? So that is an open-ended question, and lot of people have different interpretations. I think Walt was asked one time if they were, and I think he said yes. um But there isn't anything that, you know.
01:20:02
Speaker
But they live in separate houses. i mean, maybe that's why it works. That's a compromise, right? There you go. All right, touche, touche, touche. That's a theory.
01:20:16
Speaker
okay so So, Jeff, let me add, you know, and both of your books, I'm glad you didn't go down the the history route.
01:20:28
Speaker
You know, I'm glad you didn't. I think where you stand, there's not a lot of books written the way you write and things like that. I think the the bigger issue is, you know, we had we've had authors on here before, and a lot of them are, you know,
01:20:46
Speaker
I try to stick in this lane. I don't want to go over here, over here. you know i And my big thing is is like when I go down in Barnes & Noble and look look ah in the Disney section and I see everything's history, but then everybody is debating the books that are written on history because none of them agree with everything being accurate and things like that.
01:21:10
Speaker
But then nobody reads any of the books and then back and forth. But I think ah your books are the their life lessons. And I think right we we we need more books like that to where you can apply and where you're going with your couple's books using, um you know, park related material and things like that. I think.
01:21:33
Speaker
it intertwines lot better than, okay, here's history. Good luck, whether it's true or not, because, you know, we can write it, you know, who's going to fact check, check us, you know, its obviously not the, not the ah publishing company because, you know, but I, I applaud you because there's not a lot of books out like this. And I think yours, yours sounds is fantastic.
01:22:00
Speaker
Well, a good example of that is the sitting on the park bench story. Because there are three park benches, I think we've discussed this before. There are three park benches that claim to be the bench Walt was sitting on when he first dreamed of a place where parents and children can have fun together. There's one in the Main Street Opera House at Disneyland, there's one at Griffith Park, and there's another one at the Disney Family Museum up in San Francisco.
01:22:26
Speaker
And I've had a couple of people reach out and say, hey, did you know that there's another park bench here? Did you know there's another park? And of course I know that. And which one is the bench is not the point.
01:22:42
Speaker
The point is you've got an idea, get off your ass and start taking action. And if you want to get lost in the weeds and write a historical paper that four people will read over which one is most likely the bench, you go do that.
01:22:58
Speaker
But that's not my lane. That's not what I'm interested in. And ah I'll give you another example. I did a um or lecture locally in December on the history of the holidays at Disney.
01:23:12
Speaker
And on a Disney, i want
Debate on Disney's Historical Narratives
01:23:16
Speaker
to say... um It might have been the Disney Family Museum or it might have been the, I'm not sure, but on a on a Disney like authorized, if there is such a thing, website, I read the story of how the parks in 1955 were excited for the Christmas season, but didn't have a lot of money. And, you know, the tree was somewhat modest and was, you know, located up by the castle near the central plaza. And, you know, there weren't a lot of, you know, decorations otherwise.
01:23:51
Speaker
And then at the same time, I read a book from a vice president of marketing who would um you know be a cast member in December of 1955, telling a story on Christmas Eve of a family who had come to the park, and that was their Christmas.
01:24:11
Speaker
There weren't going to be any toys, there weren't going to be any presents, there wasn't going to be any Santa, because the kids had agreed that if the parents would you know spend the money to take them to Disneyland, that would be their Christmas.
01:24:23
Speaker
And as this VP is describing the park, he's describing the garland across Main Street, and he's describing the giant tree in the town square. And I'm reading that going, which is it Right?
01:24:38
Speaker
Because here you have a VP of marketing who was there in 1955 describing it one way, and yet the Disney historical websites are describing it completely different. And so I have, like...
01:24:54
Speaker
let go of of of trying to be 100% accurate or perfect on any of that. Because at the end of the day, it it it it doesn't matter. The point of his, i my my gut says that it was a smaller scale and that this individual told that story that way because we as a reader would recognize that because that's our modern day Disney experience on Main Street at Christmas time. And that's exactly what I was talking about that book is history fiction. It's like there needs to be room for narrative and and to some degree, gosh, if you want to just does everything have to be complete 100 percent fat like every tiny little millimeter.
Announcement of New Book 'Nothing Can Stop Us Now'
01:25:40
Speaker
to be factual you'll you'll be in the weeds for the rest of your life and you'll never let facts get in the way of a good story there you go you're good you're a good teacher ah
01:25:55
Speaker
uh jeff and lindsey uh pardon me if you told me this and i'm just not remembering but could you tell me if your new book has a title and what it is Yeah, it's um Nothing Can Stop Us Now.
01:26:09
Speaker
Timeless tips for your happily ever after. You did say it and I just didn't write it again. Do you get the actual song from Mickey and Minnie's Runaway with that too? Nothing Can Stop Us Now.
01:26:22
Speaker
with With that what, Barry? You get the soundtrack with that from the Mickey and Minnie runaway? No, you just get the song stuck in your head. i know. right yeah I'm going to be singing it all night now. every time you The second time you brought it up, I'm like, great title.
01:26:38
Speaker
I mean, it'll work. It'll keep in everybody's head. if i um If I were to wander into Barnes & Noble, Barry, where do y'all think this book would be? Would it be in the self-help or relationship or travel section?
01:26:54
Speaker
That is a good question. Because I am using a different publisher this time to assist with distribution into the larger bookstores like Barnes & Noble. So that is a fascinating question. Probably relationships and self-help. probably Yeah, hopefully not with the other quote-unquote history books that, you know. No, probably not. I would say, I don't know. That's just my, i use Barnes & Noble. Yeah.
01:27:19
Speaker
It would probably stand out more in a relationship section. If it's not traveled, then people are going to see all these fun books. and It's written by Barnes. Why would Barnes and Noble not want it? Because Barnes is Noble. There you go. yeah I'm Barnes. She's Noble. All right. All right. We're getting off. All right. I actually have one more tiny question. Do you guys have an ETA for when it's going to be published? I know you said you're editing it.
01:27:46
Speaker
Do you guys have a goal for when it will be? When should we start looking? Spring of 2026.
01:27:51
Speaker
that's su Oh, that's fast. It's it's done. oh cool. Yeah, it's it's it's done. And we are about to hit send. We we have our own editing and cleanup, dot the I's, cross the T's process, and then it hits send to um our editor.
01:28:09
Speaker
yeah And then once that happens, then it goes to the publisher and we're off to the races. well ah Well, just excellent. Awesome. Okay. All right. I think we're going to wrap up this episode. Man, this is another great one. Jeff, Lindsay, thanks for coming on Thanks for having us. Yes, thank you.
01:28:29
Speaker
you guys just make my heart smile. So... um All right, so let's go ahead and wrap this up. Jeff what do you jeff Shaver, what do you say, Goofy? Oh, my length is fantastic or something. that all right. I find my voice is lit.
01:28:46
Speaker
All right. All right. Before we wrap it up. Lindsay does a really mean Minnie Mouse. Oh, can I hear it? No, don't. Can I? Let's hear it. Minnie Mouse. no um caitlin if you do and caitlin's coming on but soon but if you uh i'll do a poo bear for you and which is in progress i'm not very good but if you do many i'll do poo bear it's not many it's the nothing can stop us now do it but whatever it is yeah if you want which is sung by mickey and minnie oh but okay you boy
01:29:17
Speaker
no hi there I don't know I don't I can't do Mickey but no mine's bad I just do I'll just scream out like boy all the time love that that's the voice that's wonderful yeah yeah okay well that's that's hey you impressed him oh yeah all right let's hear it poo oh my boo's bass like no hello no mother I do believe uh that I and I've been like Anyways, that's my 3 a.m. I stay up too late watching. Yeah.
01:29:50
Speaker
I think that's so cute. I like it. All right. That's my poo, but it's okay. We're just surrounded by greatness here. No, there's no greatness. It's just awkwardness. But, of course, it's time to wrap up this here podcast.
Promotion of Website and Resources
01:30:05
Speaker
yeah So before we wrap up, Jeff and Lindsay, would you guys like to promote anything, your website, anything for our listeners?
01:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, um you can find me, now us, at thewisdomofwalt.com. And there is a tab labeled Resources. Sign up for the free blog. It comes out every Wednesday. And starting January 12th, I've added a new writer, Kristen Reinbold. And she's going to be doing Mondays on Main Street. And again, 100% free. So you'll get inspiration and motivation on Monday and Wednesdays. And then we'll be dropping the podcast every Friday.
01:30:47
Speaker
cool And i I do get your, like and I would just suggest, hey, all our listeners, subscribe to it because i I've been getting your emails for a while now. And boy, they they're they're special. I really enjoy them. Oh, thank you. yeah I mean, they're written very much like the books, except they're free.
01:31:05
Speaker
I know. I love them. Yeah, there you go. And who doesn't like free? I will also mention, if you want more Jeff motivation in action, we do have a weekly community.
Introduction of The Action Community
01:31:16
Speaker
Oh, that's right. Oh, really? You can find us at theactioncommunity.com. Anybody struggle with procrastination? it's all about getting motivated out of your procrastination and so that see us every week with that yeah it's a membership community 100 built around killing procrastination and taking action and getting getting crap done oh shoot i needed that okay i'll see i'll see you tomorrow it's
01:31:43
Speaker
Takes the motivation side with Jeffrey. And then we have our other, the co-host with him is a therapist, a licensed therapist and social worker. And so it's kind of a combo platter of here's why you do this. And then him here's how you can get out of it. Remind me one more time.
01:32:01
Speaker
The action community.com. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Future Guest Announcement and Wrap-up
01:32:06
Speaker
All right, you got me. And we also can hear hear more Minnie Mouse with Lindsay.
01:32:12
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Correction, it's Minnie Mouse, Jeffrey. i Wonderful to have you all. Happy New Year, everyone. Let's go ahead and wrap this up.
01:32:29
Speaker
A little side note, we're having Kristen on as a guest next month, I think. so Awesome. nice that's That's great. that There's some connection there, so i'm excited about that. all right so We're to go ahead and wrap up this episode. and i want to thank our guests Jeff and Lindsay Barnes for coming on. And also want to thank our co-hosts for being so awesome and asking awesome questions. And until next time, keep sharing the magic.
01:33:08
Speaker
Thank you for joining us for another enchanting episode of Sharing the Magic. We have magical conversations that are crafted to your ears. The Edutainment Show, where education and entertainment collide each week.
01:33:20
Speaker
We bring you whimsical interviews with Disney guests who share their magical experiences and reveal how they are woven into the Disney fabric. Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay updated on our latest episodes.
01:33:32
Speaker
Spread the word and let your friends know they can tune in wherever they enjoy their favorite podcasts. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and X, formerly Twitter, at at sharingthemagicpod.
01:33:45
Speaker
Until next time.