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E29 - Tokunboh Ishmael, Co-Founder and Managing Director of Alitheia Capital
18 Plays3 hours ago
Why do less than 2% of investments go to female founders globally? And what are we missing because of it? In this episode, Tokunboh Ishmael, one of Africa’s leading voices in impact investing and gender lens finance, explores the realities of investing to improve lives across Africa. As co-founder of Alitheia Capital, managing over $250 million in assets, Tokunboh has spent nearly two decades investing in businesses that expand access to finance, clean energy, and economic opportunity. In this conversation, she shares examples of what success looks like:
- helping grow a small financial services company into a national player serving underserved entrepreneurs,
- supporting a farmer aggregation business connecting West African farmers to international markets,
- backing a woman-led manufacturing company that now powers surrounding communities while creating jobs and export opportunities.
This discussion touches on why diversity leads to better business decisions and why impact investing done well makes sense from all perspectives: economic, social, and environmental.
Please review the episode, share your feedback, and subscribe to the podcast!
You can also
- Visit our website: womenchangingfinance.org
- Follow Tokunboh on LinkedIn
- Read Tokunboh's full bio
To go further, here are some of the references mentioned during the episode:
- Alitheia Capital — https://alitheia.com/
- Alitheia IDF - https://www.alitheiaidf.com/
- 2X Global (2X Framework) — https://www.2xglobal.org/
- The Earthshot Prize — https://earthshotprize.org/
- The Atomic Human by Neil Lawrence — https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455130/the-atomic-human-by-lawrence-neil-d/9781802062106
- Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin — https://gabriellezevin.com/tomorrowx3/
- Ready Player One by Ernest Cline — https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/209887/ready-player-one-by-ernest-cline/
Women Changing Finance is part of the Impact Alpha Podcast Network.
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Transcript
Introduction to Women Changing Finance
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi, welcome to the podcast Women Changing Finance, where you will discover amazing women from all around the world who are making finance become a force for good.
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast, Women Changing Finance.
Spotlight on Tokumbo Ishmael
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm Krisztina Tora, and I'm welcoming today Tokunboh Ishmael, co-founder and managing director of Alitheia Capital, a female-led private equity firm and co-founder of Alitheia IDF, where she raised over $100 million to invest in female-led businesses in Africa.
00:00:42
Speaker
Some of the companies she has invested in are already changing and redefining their sectors. Tokumbo is an incredible leader and champion of impact investing in Africa. It's an absolute honor to have her on the show today. Welcome, Tokumbo.
00:00:56
Speaker
Thank you. And it's an honor to be on the show. And thank you for inviting me to to share some words.
Trends and Misconceptions in African Impact Investing
00:01:03
Speaker
Thank you. So my first question is about impact investing in Africa.
00:01:09
Speaker
Could you paint us a picture of the trends or the evolutions that you are seeing, maybe progress that you are witnessing, and perhaps any meatbusting around misconceptions that people might have about impact investing in Africa?
00:01:26
Speaker
Yes, thank you so much. So the firm that I currently lead, Alitheia Capital, has been a pioneer in the space for the past 18 years.
00:01:36
Speaker
What I would say is that over that period, when at the beginning, there was a lot of skepticism and a lot of thought that if you were talking about impact investing, you were only talking about CSR or charitable endeavors and not the fact that you could invest in good businesses that were not just driving for finance, but we're also driving for certain development impact goals.
00:02:03
Speaker
For us at Alitheia, that started with us looking at financial inclusion, energy inclusion. You mentioned our gender fund, which is a gender inclusion fund driving for better decision making and the other dividends of diversity.
Evolution of Mainstream Impact Investing
00:02:18
Speaker
What we've seen over the past 18 years is that there's been a shift away from thinking that is this is merely for charity. There is still the prevailing thought that if you're going to pursue impact investing, that you are definitely sacrificing good returns. And I would say that you can still make good returns. The question is, how greedy do you want to be?
00:02:44
Speaker
If you want to be balanced for profits, people and planets, there will be shifting on the leveling of all of that. So good business is still good business with impact investing.
00:02:59
Speaker
We are seeing shift away from the CSR. We're not quite mainstream yet because as soon as there's a wobble or someone speaks up against anything around impact investing, gender diversity, gender lens investing, then i tend to say the tourists go home and those that were not really committed begin to shackle their luggage and and leave the island, so to speak.
00:03:26
Speaker
But there is more move towards recognizing that the intentionality that impact investing requires is necessary for us to achieve not just financial returns, but also development impact.
Women-led SMEs and Technology's Role in Africa
00:03:40
Speaker
And there are many development impact indices that we can talk about, and I'm sure we'll cover some of those as we go along. That's brilliant. Thank you so much. I will ask you some of some questions related to what you just presented, but it's a perfect introduction.
00:03:55
Speaker
So let's talk about Alitea. So you co-founded Alitheia and later Alitheia IDF, which is focused on women-led SMEs in Africa. Can you tell us more about your mission, what gaps you are working to fill?
00:04:11
Speaker
Basically, how do you work? Yeah. So I touched upon some of that in my answer to the first question. So at Aletheia, when we started, we knew that for economies to thrive, the the small businesses also need to thrive.
00:04:28
Speaker
And what they need to thrive is finance. Finance is a fuel for growth. And what we were seeing was particularly the missing middle, the ones that are in between the large corporates and the very small micro entrepreneurs were not getting the access to finance that they needed.
00:04:47
Speaker
And so one way that we thought we could ah drive change in that area was to start with raising finance that could be then be on lended or invested in small and growing businesses, given that they are the engine of growth. So broadening access to finance.
00:05:07
Speaker
And what we also saw was that for access to finance to work, technology needed to play a role. So we were one of the first investors in the fintech sector to leverage technology so that even the microfinance banks at the time could go beyond their immediate proximate areas to be able to provide services to a wider group of people and leveraging the fact that more people were digitally with the mobile phone enabled than had bank accounts.
00:05:41
Speaker
So providing that access to finance in a broader sense, leveraging technology. And we do that across other verticals as well, leveraging technology to enable access to essential goods and services.
Initiatives for Energy Access and Gender Equity
00:05:55
Speaker
Some of that is embedded financing, enabling for for jobs, for an insurance, for a driver network, for example, or embedded finance that enables retailers to collect payments and also send money to their supplier network.
00:06:16
Speaker
So really enabling the underserved to participate in the economy is a key way in which we look to drive impact. Another area that we've worked in is around energy access and inclusion, where we created financial products that made it possible for lower income households and small businesses to have access to cleaner energy by enabling them to improve.
00:06:46
Speaker
purchase the the clean energy infrastructure that then they could pay for either piecemeal or buy at a right size and right price level. So it really is about investing in in that infrastructure that enables that access to essential goods and services and therefore also provides jobs and makes it possible for people to participate in the economy.
00:07:13
Speaker
Another big area with our Gender Lens Fund is again around bridging the gender equity gap, where we see that less than 5% of funds that are invested in businesses go to female founders. So being intentional about enabling that access to finance.
00:07:30
Speaker
A good number of female founders that are in our portfolio for the Gender Lens Fund are founders that are building formidable businesses in agro-processing, in manufacturing,
00:07:43
Speaker
enabling access to the economy and markets for smallholder farmers and enabling financial services. These are good businesses that are growing and are also generating export revenue.
00:07:57
Speaker
So it was a wonder that they couldn't secure the finance that they needed. And so that intentionality to seek out those that are left behind and overlooked, good businesses, is something that we do.
00:08:10
Speaker
And it enables us to not just provide that access to the underserved, but also drive for good returns in overlooked businesses and sectors. So there's a lot that I can say.
00:08:25
Speaker
What I like to impress is that with the businesses, when you look at overlooked sectors, you're creating new markets, bigger markets, and you're bringing more people into markets.
00:08:38
Speaker
And that in itself provides an opportunity for a business to grow, scale, and have impact. Yes, absolutely. It's a leverage effect, almost like a catalytic effect too to drive business growth through that.
Success Stories in Financial Services and Agriculture
00:08:53
Speaker
I'm curious to hear, you have been in this In this activity for so long, what have been your most successful investments and what kinds of businesses do you want to highlight?
00:09:04
Speaker
Yes, I can highlight a few. I've spoken a lot about financial services. We recently exited from a financial services player where we were instrumental in enabling that player to come to markets.
00:09:19
Speaker
to focus on a niche area where people were being overlooked for the size of their business. And there it was with MSMEs and broadening access to finance to this network of players. And we were able to grow this company from a situation where they were one room unit financial service license to a national formidable competitor.
00:09:45
Speaker
And we were able to do that growing the the loan book some 40 times, growing the customer base by a similar kind of magnitude and really driving for that access to finance and enabling that entity to become a profitable endeavor, which we were then able to exit and makes our investors um happy to being able to play a role in making it possible for the businesses and individuals that were able to access finance through that entity to have improved lives and livelihoods.
00:10:21
Speaker
We also played ah a pioneering role in the fintech space. Again, leveraging technology with a fintech to broaden access to financial services.
00:10:32
Speaker
one of there Another success, there's so many, i I'm trying to think which ones that I want to cherry pick. Another good success is with a farmer aggregation company in West Africa that is connecting small-scaleholder farmers to retailers in the UK, US, s internationally.
00:10:54
Speaker
improving the yields and the products from those farmers and providing access to not just local markets, but international markets driving for some exports.
00:11:08
Speaker
Another one is a female-led business that was a small factory concern some four hours outside of Lagos that was just one building servicing a few hundred farmers.
00:11:24
Speaker
But as now we've enabled this company to build a world-class manufacturing facility that's Outside of Lagos, so not everything happens in Lagos like people think, outside of Lagos enabled it to transition on the energy front, not just cutting costs for the factory, but also lighting up five communities wet surrounding it where the farmers are.
00:11:54
Speaker
live and therefore improving the lives and livelihoods for the farmers at home and making them better able to show up in the farmland and therefore have that ripple effect of providing better crop and improving their yield and ability to do that, which has enabled this company to grow some 10 times and process a crop native to Nigeria, but then process it into something that is being exported. And that's cassava, which is available widely in West Africa and now is an export champion with a mega manufacturing facility and connecting those farmers as well through its processing to an international market.
00:12:46
Speaker
I mean, there's so many examples that I can
Balancing Profit with Purpose
00:12:50
Speaker
talk about. And I encourage people to follow the link that you're going to post to the Aletheia website to read more about these amazing entrepreneurs and businesses and financial services, in transportation and logistics, in agro-processing that we have invested in and showcased on our website.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yes, definitely. i will put the link. And I also like the description of the ripple effect of one benefit leading to other benefits within this investment. You have been you know one of the pioneers really able to show that profit and purpose can go together. Tell us more about that journey. Tell us more also how you have worked with your own investors to bring them to to understand that this is actually possible. Yes. I mean, with investors, obviously the proof is in the pudding. They see the work we do and that is aligned with their their purpose, what they want to do. What we have found is that we have a crop of investors, mostly foundations, development finance institutions, European institutions.
00:14:01
Speaker
private investors that want to do good and do well and know that they have also had a good imprint on the lives of others, not just through charity, but through building good businesses.
00:14:18
Speaker
So we've been fortunate to have those investors. the development finance institutions, international development finance institutions in Europe, in the US, some foundations as well that have worked with us along the journey over the last 18 years.
00:14:34
Speaker
And what we're seeing is the emergence of and interest from a new class of investors, more foundations, more philanthropic investors, high net worth individuals that are beginning to take notice of the fact that actually their money can be a driver for good. What I would say is that we don't have enough domestic investors that are coming along this journey.
00:14:58
Speaker
And really, this work needs to begin at home. The interest in this work needs to begin at home. We need to see more African investors looking to make those investments that, yes, create a good financial return and also help to generate development impact in their societies where they live.
00:15:23
Speaker
There is that ripple effect for them as well that If everyone in the community is doing well, then you have less of the challenges, security challenges even, and lack and scarcity and the ability for us all to share in growth potential in our economies.
00:15:45
Speaker
rather than overwhelmingly being out of balance and just focusing on profits and forgetting about people and planet. At the end of the day, it's the people that work together to make successful business.
00:15:59
Speaker
That's a really, truly important point. Do you have any views on how to make that happen? We just need to keep telling the stories. We probably collectively as impact investors haven't done a great job about the storytelling.
00:16:14
Speaker
And we need to collaborate on that and not just have individual success stories in one corner. But we need to do better about bringing together all these success stories and show in showcasing what can be done across the markets where we invest and helping People to understand the role that purpose needs to play in generating wealth and not just about making rich people richer, but making economies richer, collectively shared prosperity, improving lives and livelihoods for all.
00:16:53
Speaker
Great. That's a very good call to action. i want to ask you also about your gender lens investing. So you have been a champion for gender lens investing for a long time.
00:17:04
Speaker
I do know that you have integrated that part in your different funds. What was the need that you have identified to create a specific dedicated fund for gender lens investing? What was the journey as opposed to integrating it into the other investment strategies?
00:17:24
Speaker
Well, when the stats show, right, less than 5%, in fact, closer to 2% of funding goes to female founders.
Intentional Funding for Female Founders
00:17:33
Speaker
And if we're not intentional about shifting that direction of funds, that inequality will continue to persist.
00:17:45
Speaker
And I've said that businesses, finance is the fuel for growth. So if you're not seeing that fuel for growth in your business and you're being left behind either because you've not been able to tap into the networks where finance is flowing, or there's an unconscious bias where the asset allocators are overwhelmingly male and so therefore are looking more at those that are in their immediate purview and not being intentional about seeking out people that are not like them, that didn't necessarily go to the same schools as them and doesn't don't necessarily have the same energy as them and therefore are not as vocal in the marketplace, then they're overlooking opportunity and they're also overlooking the possibility of having that shared prosperity where if all businesses are able to perform well, actually the whole economy benefits.
00:18:51
Speaker
And also they're overlooking the fact that when you have diversity in teams, when you have diversity in management at the board, in and the employee makeup, you have better decisions.
00:19:07
Speaker
No business that follows a group think can, with just one type of perspective in the room, can thrive. An all-male team may do well for a period, but They could do even better if you have diversity. And that's where I felt it was necessary to drive for that intentionality. And it was necessary for us to develop a framework.
00:19:35
Speaker
that enabled us to be intentional at every stage of the investment process, but also intentional about the gender action plans that each of our companies need to embark on.
00:19:49
Speaker
And by the way, we have backed male founders and we have worked with them on a gender action plan that not only showcases for them that actually, this enables them to better reflect the marketplaces that they're targeting.
00:20:05
Speaker
And by doing that, enables them to perform better, but also makes for a more healthy, thriving, innovative, employee makeup and make better decisions. So, you know, we've been able to demonstrate that. And I felt that it was necessary to bring attention to this thesis by bringing this out from the mainstream funds that we had so that we could Be very intentional about the way that we applied the framework.
00:20:40
Speaker
Because without intentionality, with all the will in the world, you can you will continue to do business the same way unless you apply that intentionality.
00:20:51
Speaker
Now, that was what some 10, nearly 15 years ago when we embarked on this. Now with the these kinds of frameworks like the Aletheia Gender Lens Investment Framework and the 2X framework, now you're seeing more people turn their attention and be more intentional.
00:21:14
Speaker
But back then, it was necessary to start something new outside of the norm and draw attention to it at that time.
00:21:25
Speaker
Thank you. And just for those who don't know what a gender action plan is, can you briefly explain? Yes, um for sure. So when we look at gender lens investing, we look at how gender themes can be a strategic factor for the business.
00:21:44
Speaker
And so we look at what's the boardroom makeup, how different are the perspectives, are how diverse are the perspectives, and gender is one of the first areas you can go to to bring diversity.
00:21:58
Speaker
You look at the management, again, diversity there. If you don't have diversity at the board or management, there's an action plan that we put into place so that we can increase that diversity, not just by bringing on a token person, but actually trying to bring in at least 30% to 40% representation so that you can have those better decisions. You can have a better reflection of the board and management and even the in the employee base as well, reflecting the marketplace that you are serving.
00:22:36
Speaker
Women are the decision makers for over $15 trillion dollars globally. If you're not thinking about the tastes and preferences of the female population, you're missing a trick.
00:22:49
Speaker
And so you want your businesses to reflect that marketplace. so And then also, when you layer on gender into the way that you think about your products, you can be more innovative,
00:23:03
Speaker
in the products and the delivery of those, because perhaps in addressing a nuance of maybe women in for feminine hygiene products, you can make a better hospital consumable product because you're thinking more broadly about the way that women use those consumables.
00:23:27
Speaker
That's a real life case situation. Or there's sit places where the woman is balancing so much at home and at work. and And a lot of the times is the the home economics situation maker And therefore, the manner in which they need to access services, whether that's via digital means or whether it's in the delivery of financial products or even just the delivery of e-commerce products that fit into the way that a woman is working in and out of the home.
00:24:04
Speaker
you can bring innovation to that. So when we talk about agenda action plan, we're looking at every level, the boards, the management, the employee makeup, the products and services that the company is providing, how it's delivering those services and can layer in on agenda factor enable us to amplify the returns of that company.
00:24:27
Speaker
Thank you. That's very clear and great examples. Let's project ourselves in, say, 2030. Let's imagine that by that time we have more capital going to the businesses that need support in Africa.
Increasing Capital Flow to African Businesses by 2030
00:24:43
Speaker
What needs to happen now from your perspective to make that happen? What are the different items that we need to work on? and we need that and If I look at the value chain of how capital flows, we do need more allocators that reflect the investment marketplace.
00:25:05
Speaker
And that investment marketplace has to have more women in decision making as well. running the asset allocation into portfolio businesses so that we can overcome some of the unconscious biases.
00:25:21
Speaker
And even where we have women as asset allocators, it's important that those female asset allocators are not overcompensating for the fact that they're women and therefore thinking that I can't just be seen to be doing a lot of investment in female fund managers because people will think that I'm just doing that without commercial sense. No, do your proper process as you do it, but also be mindful that you need a broader group of asset allocators at the funder funds level, at the portfolio company level, and perhaps don't just chase vanity projects that are led by known, louder male asset allocators. I'll probably get into trouble for saying that, but there's a lot of vanity chasing there.
00:26:13
Speaker
on supporting those that are have grown billions of dollars because people want to be in those larger transactions and ah leaving behind a certain cadre of asset allocators. So there needs to be diversity at all levels.
00:26:32
Speaker
And diversity, even when you have that diversity, diversity of thought and strategy and intentionality to make sure that there is that money that flows to diverse teams, female-led businesses, and not believe that just because there's been a lot of work in this area that the job is done. It's not done.
00:26:54
Speaker
We're still not at 10% of funds flowing to diverse teams and female founders. And so just having a flash in the pan in one period does not mark the workers as done.
00:27:07
Speaker
We need intentionality. We need people to recognize their unconscious bias. We need diversity at all levels of the value chain. I like what you're saying. And actually, it's a nice bridge to a question I i ask all my guests.
Tokumbo's Journey and Impact in Finance
00:27:23
Speaker
How do you feel being a woman doing this job? Well, first of all, I'm very qualified. I worked on Wall Street. I've had success. I've worked in other fund management firms.
00:27:36
Speaker
I'm a tech digital native, computer science grader, econ grader. So I have a variety of skills and I have the business development muscle that has enabled me to grow Alathea these past two decades alongside my work experience on Wall Street in Silicon Valley in the city of London.
00:27:57
Speaker
So I feel well prepared for what I've done and what I continue to do. So I feel very confident about the work we do. And like I said, the stories tell it all.
00:28:10
Speaker
However, I do feel that based on what I just said about the chasing of vanity projects and investments, I do feel we we are still overlooked as a group.
00:28:23
Speaker
Just having, we need more than Alitheia, we need a thousand flowers to bloom. And I don't feel like we've sufficiently scratched the surface if we're still at less than 10%.
00:28:35
Speaker
I mean, after all, women make up nearly 50% of the world population, if not more. So why should less than 10% be going to female allocators and female led businesses, diverse teams?
00:28:49
Speaker
Thank you. And I think that's also an interesting bridge to the next question, which is about your journey. So you've been on Wall Street. You've done a number of different things.
00:29:02
Speaker
How did you get here? And maybe, you know, the the question is because I think that it's really inspiring for others to hear these kinds of journeys, how you have brought different experiences to really invest those experiences and skills into what you're doing today.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yes. I mean, I started life as my professional life as a computer science and economics dual major a graduate first class.
00:29:31
Speaker
So I did well and proud to say that I beat every other guy in the class because I was the only one in my set that got a first class. So I achieved what every other person had achieved and more, and that included the men.
00:29:49
Speaker
So I was well prepared for the marketplace and went on to work with software companies, went on to build computers, went on to develop software in the city of London, financial technology in the city of London, and worked for a number of large corporates.
00:30:09
Speaker
And then Decided to go to business school for a number of reasons, to learn um about finance, and then found myself, like ah many people, looking at, at the time, looking at investment banking and consulting, and ended up going to Wall Street. I worked in City of London, and I worked in Wall Street in New York as well.
00:30:31
Speaker
And given my background in computer science and technology, found a gravitation no pull towards San Francisco, where I worked in the bank's San Francisco office before I then joined the Silicon Valley startup, where which had been funded by Venture Capital in California.
00:30:54
Speaker
So I was introduced to the world of private equity and VC via that avenue. And then moved back to the UK where I managed funding that was commercializing technology out of universities in the UK, particularly the University of London network.
00:31:17
Speaker
And that's where I sort of got more of an even bug for applying my technology experience and my finance experience to finance innovation.
00:31:28
Speaker
And then because of personal circumstances, wanted to move to Africa at some point. And then I was moved with a private equity firm to head up the Lagos and Nigeria office of um this finance firm.
00:31:46
Speaker
And that was the first time that I actually worked professionally in Nigeria, in Lagos. and it was of And as a child, I'd been, i guess, cushioned from seeing the scourges of the environment around me. But as a professional, seeing that I was well paid and going from air-conditioned car to air-conditioned home to air-conditioned office jumping over gutters and all the scourges of having poverty and wealth settled next to each other, i felt that I couldn't just continue to just make rich people richer and that I wanted to see how I could combine the fundamentals of hard finance
00:32:33
Speaker
with the dynamics that I was seeing in the marketplace and the the desire for social change that I had in my heart to see how we could drive for both finance and development impacts.
00:32:48
Speaker
and This was back in 2005. right so the term impact investing wasn't really a thing. And so people thought that I was a bit loony taking my hard finance and becoming this charitable endeavor entrepreneur.
00:33:04
Speaker
And I said, well, we should be able to do both. And history has now shown that, okay, impact investing did emerge and we have more people who are thinking about how you finance to achieve the social development goals.
00:33:19
Speaker
And so I'm not crazy after all. But there still is a lack of mainstreaming for that whole thesis. And while money has gone more to that and you you hear more intentionality,
00:33:35
Speaker
If we really care about global shared prosperity, shared prosperity within economies, we really do need to be more intentional about balancing the the objectives for people, planet and profit.
00:33:49
Speaker
So that's kind of a whistle-stop. little and Yeah, brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing. And I want to ask you another question, which is related to this beautiful journey.
00:34:02
Speaker
you know, this is an opportunity for you to reflect on on successes and achievements. So I'd love for you to share maybe an achievement or something that you're really proud of during this lifetime of, you know, kind of creating impact and and looking at that.
00:34:18
Speaker
Well, I mean, Alathea has been involved in enabling the creation of tens of millions of jobs and that directly impacts people's lives and livelihoods.
00:34:30
Speaker
So I'm proud that my thesis of thinking that we can direct finance to not just make rich people richer, but also make the lives of ordinary people richer.
00:34:43
Speaker
I'm proud of that. I've been a voice that at some point seemed like a lonely voice in the wilderness, but has had catalyzing of many other voices.
00:34:54
Speaker
When Pololitica and I started l at the IDF, it seemed like we were barking up a very lonely alley on our own. And now we see people who want to identify with having a gender lens strategy. I'm proud of that.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah, amazing, amazing achievements. Thank you. Thank you for for sharing and for being there to keep at it As we're approaching the end of of this conversation, I have three quick questions for you.
00:35:24
Speaker
What is keeping you optimistic? o Well, what keeps me optimistic is the fact that we are seeing the change. We are seeing the impact of the work we do.
00:35:36
Speaker
And so I know that we can continue to drive change. And looking at what we've done, like I said just now, I'm very proud of our impact.
00:35:48
Speaker
And I'm proud of the work that we've done. And I also see the challenge ahead of us because we we've just scratched the surface and we need to see more intentionality across the board.
00:36:01
Speaker
And i feel that I would be happier if our African governments and business leaders and economies in seeing these stories and seeing the the challenges around us become part of the movement and really also embrace this intentionality and don't just think about profit but think more widely about people and the planet as well.
Inspiration and Influence
00:36:33
Speaker
Call to actions for governments as well yes absolutely. Who or what is inspiring you? Ooh, who or what is inspiring me? I guess what inspires me is the fact that I know that we can make a change.
00:36:48
Speaker
So that really is what inspires me more than anything else. The youth also inspires me. I'm involved in a number of initiatives around driving innovation.
00:37:00
Speaker
I'm involved in something called the Earthshot Prize. And when I see the innovative solutions that are coming up to address the the challenges of climate change and how people are being engaged within their own communities where they are proximate to come up with innovative solutions and how the youth are embracing that and want to see change, I believe that the future will be bright.
00:37:31
Speaker
And so that inspires me. Thank you. I love the Astrid Prize. It's a great okay organization. And final question, are you reading anything that you would recommend to the audience?
00:37:45
Speaker
On the nonfiction side, I'm reading couple of books. The Atomic Human by Neil Lawrence takes you through some of the history of AI and how we got to where we are, but also is throwing a ball wrecking ball at the AI hype.
00:38:04
Speaker
And I do think there's a bit of AI hype. So I like that. also started reading a book named Stella, which is helping us think about a future that is less extractive than where we are. And I forget the the name of the author on that one.
00:38:23
Speaker
On the nonfiction side, I'm reading quite a few things, actually. I'm trying to think which one do I want to point to. One of my favorites is Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow. It's about gaming and the world of gaming and the ordinary lives of people, humanity in that world.
00:38:42
Speaker
And so, yeah, that's a good book that I would recommend. And Ready Player One, which I'm rereading. Have you read Ready Player One? I only watched a movie, i have to say Yeah, but the book is good too.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, I would i'd recommend those. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dokumu. This was a really amazing conversation. do you have any final asks of the listeners or any tips, recommendations for them?
Balancing Profit with Planetary Concerns
00:39:12
Speaker
i would just say that it really is important for everybody at every level, not just people in finance.
00:39:20
Speaker
to think about how we balance out the pursuit of profit with concerns for people and the planet. Really, in our everyday lives as well, there's there's something that we can all do.
00:39:35
Speaker
And I would say that we should follow our hearts and not just our wallets. That's absolutely fantastic conclusions, this conversation. So thank you. Thank you for your time and your insights. It was amazing. You're welcome.
00:39:56
Speaker
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00:40:08
Speaker
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00:40:19
Speaker
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00:40:33
Speaker
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