Transcript
Speaker: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of From Script to Shelf, a comic book podcast. So today we have Dave Wilgus joining the show. Dave has a new book that's been coming out, Showdown, from Ignition Press. We get into that book. We also talk a little bit about his work at DC, writing and editorial. So really good conversation. Dave's a very insightful guy and I hope you guys give this show a listen and enjoy.
Speaker: All right, welcome back everybody to another episode of from script to shelf, a comic book podcast. So today we have another very special guest. and We have Dave Wilgus here to talk about a lot of his work, including his new original book from iition ignition press showdown. So Dave, how are you doing? how Are you doing this evening?
Speaker: I'm doing great. It's a Thursday. i don't know how often you disclose what day you're recording this song but ah that's my favorite day of the week. I'm very happy to be here. I'm excited to talk about comic books. Hey, that's always like a good way to, I kind of like doing podcasts towards the end of the week. I record them on different days. so it's not like a super consistent schedule, but to me, it's like, I work a Monday through Friday job. I kind of like, you know, end of the week, something to look forward to because I do, I do enjoy doing these so much. So I'm with you on that one. So Dave, you've had a pretty ah busy last couple of months here with, with the new book going out. So what's, what's it been like with you with the first issue coming out of showdown back in May, and We've had issue two now. So what would have things been like the first couple of issues that are coming out first couple months after launch?
Speaker: Yeah, thank you for asking. So yeah, showdown number one came out in May and then showdown number two came out yesterday. um Number one, number two had our longest gap between issues because of how the publishing is
Speaker: the first from February through May, every day of my life was about showdown, showdown, showdown, showdown. I was promoting it every day. must've done like six or seven podcasts.
Speaker: I went to the Comic Con to promote it. I went to Comics Pro to announce it and promote it. I did a couple comic store signs promote it. And like it was like, I was i was breathing show down.
Speaker: And then we had eight weeks between number one and number two. And was like, okay, I need to kind of give it a couple weeks before I start. you know bang the drum again the first issue came out we got some really strong reviews people seemed to really like it and then for five weeks i was just like not talking about showdown anymore it felt weird and then for the last couple weeks i've been like talking about number two and trying to remind people that we're now back on a monthly schedule so this issue came out in july and we have one in august september and then we wrap up in october and i think the trade paperback will come out early
Speaker: in twenty twenty seven So the next couple months should be a little more consistent. But yeah, it's, it's, it's really just been about learning, like learning, like how much to talk about something and also like not being worried about talking about it, you know, like not being self-conscious, being aware, like this is, this is one of the most important things I've ever done. And I need to talk about it as much as possible. And if people are tired of me talking about it, they'll stop listening, but I can't be tired of talking about it. Absolutely. Yeah, that's something that, again, I'm i'm on the outside kind of looking into into the world of comics. But just from like talking to people that do create their own books, I think that like i think several years ago, I don't think I really understood like what really truly goes into that. And not that I still do, but I think I'm gaining more and more of an understanding of like how much of an undertaking that is to you know to promote your books, to... know because nobody's going to care about it as much as you do and so i do have a lot of respect for all of you people out there that that are a in this business but that are doing creator own work because yeah it's a ton of work and i think that um i don't think fans really quite know quite what that is like so it's it's pretty cool to people for people to have your perspective on like here's what this is actually like kind of behind the scenes to make something like this happen
Speaker: Totally, and like there should be some level of prestige to it, right? like They don't need to know how all the sausage is made, right? Because that might really ruin everything. But like you know for me, like I'm a huge behind the scenes fan. I like to know how things are done. Obviously, I think being a behind the scenes kind of kid when was younger made me do this now as a job. So like I know that like for me, and the type person I was, like I would be thrilled to hear, what is it really like? you know especially you know Unless you know you're like a real angry, hacky Scrooge type who's like, it's all awful. You shouldn't do it. That's not how I feel. It's tough. yeah
Speaker: It's hard. To your point, like you you are the person who cares the most about the book. Me and Tag Valusio, the artist and co-creator, We care about book more than anybody. I'm like, that's okay. Like, if someone cares about your book more than you do, great to have fans, but also like, it would be weird if someone cared more than you do because you created it, you know?
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah. And that's, I just, I, I've, I've heard you talk about this when you're promoting the book and stuff too. So you've, you've had this idea for, you know, quite some time and it sounds like you've gone through many different like iterations of like how it's written. And I've heard you mentioned that it's like you had even, i don't know if you had started or thought about writing it as a novel, if it didn't work in comics. So walk, walk us through that is with like, kind of, it's been a long process to kind of make this a reality and you've had lots of different things you've been doing along the way. Um, but I guess, why is now the time that this story is is kind of being told? What kind of made all of that come together for you?
Speaker: Yeah. So I came up with this idea when I was in college, which I regret to inform you and myself was over 12 years ago. And I was a creative writing major.
Speaker: And so you know, I was writing in workshops all the time. And like, you know, unfortunately at the time, i think things are different now. My school didn't have a comic book writing section. I did every other type of writing, but did playwriting, screenwriting, I took sports journalism classes, took poetry classes, I took a lot of fiction classes.
Speaker: So I learned a lot of different styles of writing and ultimately like my school's, philosophy my program's philosophy was like, hey, like we want to show you that your voice can be filtered through a bunch of different disciplines. So at that point, like my eye was on comics and also the time,
Speaker: There was a lot like revenge movies and just revenge kind stories out either like Quentin Tarantino had done in Glorious Bastards and Jane Will Change. I was thinking a lot about Batman and Daredevil, two of my favorite characters in comics who are very vengeance and revenge oriented.
Speaker: And I was just like, well, what would drive me towards ra revenge or vengeance? And, you know, like at that point, I was in my early 20s. I'd had my parents my whole life. They are awesome people.
Speaker: They made me a good person. If I lost them, it would be very sad and very difficult. Like, you know what I mean? Like eventually, if things go according to the cosmic plan, unfortunately, we lose our parents, right right? However, like I grew up and still have a younger brother named Joshua, who love very much. We're very close.
Speaker: literally just texting today about comics and stuff. And I was like, wow, if I lost my brother, i think that would drive me over the edge to do something drastic. And, you know, as a kid, my my mom was one of seven and my dad was one of six. they came in these big families with a lot of siblings. and my brother, it was just the two of us.
Speaker: So was very much like, you have to look out for the other one and vice versa. You know, like there was a lot of like, to have each other's backs. And like, I'm very grateful that as we've gotten older, we have like a really strong relationship yeah at the time i was involved brother was so much younger i was 20 and my brother was 16 so i was like my brother especially before he kind of became an adult but he was like a full person and got to like live a full beautiful life like it'd be devastating to me so i i wrote this revenge story in a town not similar from the one i grew up in kind of a
Speaker: Fantasia version of it. And, you know, i always wanted write comics, but like I knew like, Hey man, like writing comics is going to difficult. because You have to find someone to draw it and publish it. And if I wrote it as a novel or a screenplay, which I did, I wrote it every which way to your point. Like, you know, maybe it could be a novel, maybe it could be ah a screenplay, but really always wanted to be a comic book.
Speaker: Um, and even the first year I worked at DC when I was a temp, but I didn't know was going to continue with the company. i wrote like a 40 page version that I showed to couple of my friends this is good you should keep working on this and then i i got my job in dc full time.
Speaker: just always kept working on it in the background, kept chipping away at it. And then I got opportunities to write DC, which was great. I left DC to write full time three years ago. And an editor I worked with in DC and I also worked with IDW named Jamie Rich told me, hey, I'm going and start a company called Ignition Press.
Speaker: We're going to actually, he didn't tell me was called Ignition Press. I don't think they had name yet, but he told me we're going start comic book publisher we're going to create our own books and I'm going to come to you and I'm going to ask you for ideas.
Speaker: And he was a huge supporter of my man that I did in DC with artist Sumit Kumar. But like, sometimes people tell you stuff like that. You're like, oh, you're just being polite. You're just being nice to me. You know, like, yeah, it's okay if you're being nice to But like, you know, as a 33 year old bald man, like I'm Charlie Brown, know what I mean? So don't break my heart, you know, but he was serious.
Speaker: He came to me he said, give me your pitches. I pitched him three books. One of them was Showdown. at that point, Showdown had been rejected by like four other publishers. Nothing malicious. They were just like, hey, we don't know if this is mainstream or enough for us. we don't know if this is like a comic comic bookie enough for us. We don't know if this genre is right. We we don't know if this should be your first comic.
Speaker: All things that totally appropriate. So I sent the pictures to Jamie knowing like, hey, if he says no, and I trust him deeply, he's been very good to me in my career. If he says no, this picture going to go away for a while, even if it breaks my heart.
Speaker: And then he called me one day and he said, hey We wanted to showdown. It was between showdown and another pitch. The ultimate one was showdown. They picked that one.
Speaker: And I've written it so many times. And when I did the when i did the the five scripts last year there that people now seeing as issues, it really just felt like I was doing the final draft.
Speaker: And the benefit of that having to wait 12 years is like, and if you if you want to about things like vengeance, accountability, justice, people doing bad things and how we deal with it.
Speaker: Those concepts have evolved so dramatically from 2012 when i healed the idea It's 2026 when the book was published. I don't know. i don't know if those social norms have ever changed more in such a short period. Yeah. Right. so So I got to be the beneficiary of like watching the world change in this way and knowing I had a story that really hinged on these things, like, you know, really getting to explore.
Speaker: a revenge story in a way that like i haven't seen before you know absolutely yeah and that's it's such a it's such a cool like setup too and i guess one question about and again i don't want to give too much away for people that haven't read the book yet and um i had a chance to read through issue issue three and um kind of so this is too far to let me know but as far as like what was the thought of you know, cause it is a revenge story. What was the thought of setting it up? Like, you know, obviously it's in the title.
Speaker: What was the thought behind this being a showdown where it's like, this is like something both parties know about. And this is not some random attack. Like we've, this is like, this is organized basically. What was the thought and kind of scripting things that way? Cause thought that was a very interesting choice that I liked and build so much kind of anticipation and kind of, uh, um, kind of stress to to, what you're reading. Yeah. So i think,
Speaker: Well, first of all, a lot of it came down to the title. This book had a lot of bad titles before we got to Showdown, a lot of like really pretentious novel-esque titles that would not have worked at all.
Speaker: And then one day I landed on Showdown. was like, they're going to have a showdown. Like, you know, ah showdown is two people enter, one walks away. And that felt more interesting. to me than just like oh this one person is going to stalk the other person And eventually try to kill them. There was something like, you know, absurd about like, hey, i hate you.
Speaker: You hate me. i want to hurt you. But if I can't hurt you, I would love for you to hurt me because I'm a miserable person. I just think someone needs to feel a level of pain so we can move on from this horrible situation that has brought brought us together, which is the loose pitch for Showdown. So, you know, it also gave us the opportunity to do something that kind of felt a little more like a modern day Western yeah to explore social norms and also like, you know again, like revenge and justice and and and all those concepts that they explored in so many different ways. And I'm just like, let's go back to kind of like the one of the most old school ways of dealing with a problem, which is like you and me at sundown are going to fight. And whoever fights is the better person.
Speaker: And taking that into the modern day in in a setting that felt very familiar to me was very appealing as storyteller. And every and every character is again, and we're learning as as you know, as the story progresses, where, you know, where we're learning more and more. And every character in this book is, you know, deeply flawed as as we all are in real life. And um i think the I know that you were definitely like a kind of a very much a dialogue guy. And that, I think, is like the definitely a huge part of this book that I felt was like so, you know, so strong was
Speaker: just some of those conversations and just how like a raw some situations were and especially again without giving much away there was um a scene in particular in issue three with with one of the main characters trish and i won't i won't say too much about it but such a strong scene that just like just hits kind of so hard that i wasn't expecting that um coming in that just kind of hits you out of nowhere and just makes you kind of uh you know try to grasp grasp the bigger picture. because when you kind of started hot right out of the gate, no pun intended, in issue one, and then it's like, okay, what is happening here? But like you're you're learning more and more which with each issue that passes too. And then I think the connection to the characters just keeps growing you know so much too. So where do you, because you mentioned like you kind of thought to yourself, okay, if what would push me in that direction? Are there, i'm i'm again, I'm not a writer myself, so I'm always very fascinated with
Speaker: when writers are coming up with ideas or or if it's even if it's if it's a established character, like I talked to Tony Fleece about writing Deathstroke and writing Ben Grimm. And it's like he talked about like, OK, Ben Grimm is, you know, what I like to think is like, you know, the best parts of myself. And then not that Tony ah is out you know, killing for money like Deathstroke. But like there's that's maybe that's maybe the ah there's parts of himself. i like I can see this in in me. Right. So do you feel like there's a part of you in each character or what do you draw inspiration when you're writing characters? How does that like? That's always the part that I guess doesn't compute with my brain, I guess. But like, how do you come up with that?
Speaker: Well, I just want to say first and foremost that I've met Tony Fleeks and he is an eight foot tall man made of rocks. So he lied to you. you know like i like i I've had dinner with him and it made it very distracting. I'm not going to lie. for he's He's a lovely man. But no, I heard the interview was great, by the way. And i I think he makes a great point, which is like, yeah, I think we all all the characters we make have pieces of ourselves.
Speaker: in them all the pieces all the characters do right we write have to find something to connect to them about the same way that like when you are dealing with a person you have to find a way to like empathize with them you know that's what we do as human beings so unfortunately i'm going to tell you that like i do have a lot in common with both of these people our two main characters trish sullivan who is the one who lost her brother michael and challenges Harvey Harlow, the other character, to a showdown.
Speaker: In the Trish, like I have been in my life a very overprotective, self-righteous, codependent person who thought that I was the most just person I knew and that I was incapable of being wrong, where I was incapable of being um anything less than virtuous because of my life experiences and things I'd gone through. And again, like I had this deep love and connection from my brother that you know, I can't, that you know, I, you know, it was very important and continues to be very important, but it's evolved, especially now, like my brother is also an adult man.
Speaker: You know, my brother is not a child. And sometimes like there was a lot of times I had to remind myself of that, that my brother is a is his own person. And that comes up in the story as well, because we are going to get to see a little bit of of Michael and i won't tease anything more than that.
Speaker: But again, very clearly like, yeah. But it actually, that's a great point is like, all these characters are me in the sense that, yeah, these are my feelings. These are thoughts I've had. and And on the Harvey front, like, look, I've been a guy living in the world that's rapidly changing.
Speaker: and sometimes, you know, as as as as as progressive as a person as I'd like to be, and sometimes I do have days where I'm like, oh man, things are changing pretty fast, huh? You know, like things are complicated, things are difficult. i don't know where i fit into the world. And there's days where like, despite my best efforts, I can get it wrong because of,
Speaker: you know, the way that I, time and the time that I was born, way that I've experienced things, the privileges I've had, like, you know, like, I'm pretty privileged guy. i've lived i've I've lived a life certainly with, like, challenges, but none of them were, like, systemic or particularly difficult, you know? And I think in the second issue, which which came this week, so we can talk about it more,
Speaker: you know if there was if there was one takeaway i i tried to do with that issue is like i just don't think harvey was made to live in the time that we're living in right now yeah he wasn't made to be successful where like it maybe even in the early 2000s like we would have just got let him get away with like his bad behavior which i don't think is a good thing but like now it feels like he's like kind of like not okay but yeah and the other thing tony said about you know all these characters come from from him in some way i agree because also like you know the story is influenced by like things I saw in life, things I felt, but like you know they all have to go through the filter of me.
Speaker: So all the characters coming from me and being pieces of me, I think it also keeps things very ethical. Because like you know again, I mentioned I have brother. My brother is not Michael. you know like but but this is ah this story is a projection of like but the feeling like the feelings of love and like protection I've had for my brother, but he's his own person.
Speaker: And same with it like you know the people in the town I grew up in, even though this town is version of that town, are a Fantasia, like I said earlier, it's not. It's all through my eyes. you know So it's all kind of going through the projection of me.
Speaker: And I think that also keeps things very ethical, because I don't think it's cool to just take other people's lives Throw it into your story and then make money off of it. Right, right. Yeah, it's I think the... um Like, kind of the...
Speaker: Town connection to like, I, you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure ah the size of the town that you grew up in, but I grew up in a town that's like, you know, it's not tiny. There's tiny, tiny towns around where I grew up, but it's probably, you know, right now that town has 10,000 people. And if there are things that happen, even if a a town of that size, everybody knows.
Speaker: Like, so it's just the, and I think Harvey in, in that kind of system where it' just, it's constant reminders every day of, know, Like, oh, this is like what you did, basically. And it's such a kind of ah a tragic story where you see like you see his pain.
Speaker: But yet you see the ways that he has remorse, but then the ways that he hasn't changed. And it's just a kind of a constant in issue to kind of a reminder of that where, you know, if pushed too hard.
Speaker: um I think there's ah definitely like a lesson in that too of just like, how do we still have what's still, you know, what's right is what's right, but how do we still have compassion for people? And that was very interesting and how treated the wrong way, he just went further kind of into maybe some of his traits that are not his best traits.
Speaker: And I feel like that there's something just so kind of tragic in and that story. Yeah, absolutely. i mean, again, like he did something terrible and he should have, he should have paid for it. I think in not paying for it, it did make him a worse person.
Speaker: but then on the flip side and kind of like, when nobody agrees on how something should be dealt with, when we don't as a society or community come together and go like, this is how we should deal with this problem.
Speaker: And we all come at it. I think from a like vigilante way, It does make a situation worse. And like, again, in the absence of actual yeah, we all take things in our own hands, but like, then we might accidentally create like a worse situation because of that. Do you know what i mean? Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker: I think that's what's happened that's what's happened to Harvey. Yeah, you should have been dealt with, you should have been punished for what you did, and people still would probably look at you dirty, but at least other people could have been like, hey man, like, that thing happened, but like, he had to do x y and Z because of it.
Speaker: yeah oh And like, I think in his heart, like, he he kind of understands like, well, i didn't get punished, but I've clearly been punishing myself. Like, isn't that enough for you?
Speaker: And the answer's like, no. It's not, right. It's not, yeah, I'm sorry, but like, um you know, it's not enough, buddy. and and I think it extends past the small town. It's like when you are somewhere for a long enough period of time, even if you change, you kind of are who you are at a certain point. Yeah, it's hard to reverse that image. And it's such an interesting dynamic too. And just where we see with Trish a little bit more and more as we kind of get into things of just like
Speaker: you know, there, there is a chance for her to have like a different life and maybe a better life, but just like, we're, we're just stuck. We're stuck of where this other trauma kind of happened. And she just, she can't move on basically is kind of where we're at, which pushes, you know, both characters kind of to this point too. So I feel like, yeah, they're both in the same boat where it's like, no matter what, we cannot move on.
Speaker: Um, the world is not big enough for the two of us basically. And that, yeah, it's both characters are suffering and just, in just different ways. And yeah, it is, ah um It is one of those stories. I was talking to my wife about this as I was, you know, you know, reading, reading the issues and stuff too. It's one of those stories that it's like, there's moments where I like each character in some way. And there's moments where like, I don't like anybody in this, in this book right now. Like no one, no one is, you know,
Speaker: um which obviously with Trish is the one you probably have the the most empathy, but even some of the decisions that have been made there, like there's there's things that are just like, okay, this is comes across as very, very likable and you have empathy and other times like, what like what are you thinking? You wanna tell her like, hey, go about it this way. So I just, i feel like there's such an emotional investment that um You know, i I didn't know anything really about the book, just like anybody else. If it's a brand new, you know, brand new series and stuff. And it's just like I didn't expect it to take hold that fast. I don't know if other people feel that same way, but it sounds like you've got some good feedback so far.
Speaker: Yeah, no, thank you. We have gotten good feedback. i mean, the good news is like when people get it, they they really get it. You know, I think your point, like I have. we've made a thing that's maybe a little complicated emotionally and not everybody wants to read that type of thing. And I totally respect and understand that.
Speaker: I do. I love that type of thing. And I think comics has room for all types of stories, you know, and like, you know, you talk to Tony Fleeks who wrote Deathstroke and, you know, I'm just gonna, I'll blunt, Deathstroke is a bastard. Like I like reading about a bastard from time to time. Like I like reading about different people, but yeah, no, the tightrope that's been walked with this book is like, yeah, there's moments where I'm like, hey, you're right.
Speaker: Harvey, you're right. Trish, you're right. There's other times where like, you know, I wanna a boat by the shirt and be like, what are you doing? And think that kind of, you know, means that they're both like fully formed characters. And the real challenge here is like, look,
Speaker: By the time we get to this fight, Who are you going root for? Are you going to be able to root anybody? are you going to just like, wish that we weren't here. Like, I wish these people weren't here. I wish I wasn't here. It's going to be interesting experience the next couple issues.
Speaker: Yeah, i'm I'm looking forward to it. And things are things are moving. And, yeah, we're just we're just learning so much about each character as things as things go. And it's um I just think that is such a great way to, like, how you have paced things.
Speaker: Like, I just think that it's not – I mean, like things are happening quick, but they are – quick, but not too quick where I'm engaged, but it keeps me wanting, you know, keeps me wanting more too. And I feel like that's such a challenge with comics as a medium too, at times it's just like, users there's only limited space to make, you know, to make your story, to make your point, obviously create our own. There's maybe a a little bit more flexibility and maybe not page count, but, um obviously the story you want to tell and the efficiency you want to tell it in and the pace of that but um but it's yeah again i can imagine that's not always not always so easy to do when you've got uh you've got to collaborate with an artist and there's uh there are obviously still restrictions but it's yeah sorry go ahead oh no go ahead go ahead i was gonna say well on the art front uh you know with tad galusha i could not have gotten luckier in terms of a collaborator and artist on this book like he makes everything work like i can't imagine
Speaker: drama this book like the way he's brought the characters to life the ways about the environments to life I just interviewed him today on my newsletter actually about the second issue because I think he is I think he's the MVP of the second issue there's two scenes in the second issue that i think are everything and they're both pages and key made more like an In the first half of the issue, there's a page where to to kind of calm himself down and settle his soul, Harvey goes to the football field where he used to play, and it's there's nobody else there.
Speaker: And I've never seen – haven't seen a lot of football fields in comics that you might be shocked to hear that. I wonder why. But ah he drew this place beautifully and mythically. And the way I imagined it my head, like, it was beautiful. And like, he drew it with the importance that it needed for us to know why this is important to Harvey, why he feels settled here. But then later in the issue, there's a page that like Tad basically wrote.
Speaker: He called me and he said, hey man, this is how we're gonna do this page. And this is how you're gonna do the dialogue. And again, because the issue came out yesterday, we can talk about it. Towards the end of the issue, when Harvey has talked to his ex-girlfriend and she's basically said,
Speaker: I don't know if you were ever a good person. i don't know if you were ever gonna get there, but you're certainly not gonna get there now. There's a page where he is standing alone in this alleyway outside this bar.
Speaker: There's no dialogue. He hears people talking about him. on the inside of the bar, which is kind of as his experience the whole time, which is he's he's in his body, but not with people. But they're talking about him like he's ghost.
Speaker: And in that moment, he decides like, if you people keep calling me a monster, I'm going to be a monster. And that page was i wrote one way, but Tad was like, this is how going to draw it. And that's like the definition the collaboration.
Speaker: But to point about how much room we have and how we have to execute it, I will say that like I think we have effectively told a story in the amount of space that we've been allotted, which is the five-issue miniseries, which is now the norm for the miniseries. but Before the pandemic, it was six issues.
Speaker: But then very quietly, were like, what if there were five issues instead? And... Look, I'm not gonna lie. I'll always take an extra issue. I think all of us will, but I think not having that six issue has like removed a little bit bloat from this story in particular. Five is the right number for this. And, you know, again, because I've written it so many times before this and this stage is really like just writing the final draft and doing a lot of editing on my end, it was a great opportunity to be well,
Speaker: 100 pages, that's all we get, or 110 pages, excuse me. So some some things are just not gonna fit here. But the time, I was also shocked by like how many things I got to expand In the Trish issue in particular, most of that stuff was not in any of the other drafts.
Speaker: so we i won't say what that stuff is yet because again that comes out early august but there's a whole lot with her that was kind of left on set in the other drafts i was like well now i have this whole issue it's just about her and and i didn't tell my editors what i was going to do because like it went in so many interesting directions when i turned in and i was like hey i hope you guys don't feel like i like duped you or didn't tell you what was happening when they read the script and they were like this is awesome.
Speaker: They were like, you can't imagine the story now about this. So even though we don't have like a ton of space, there's still been like discovery surprises and paths from innovation in the art world.
Speaker: you Yeah, I don't, I mean, I've never, I've never met Tad and, you know, but he seems like a very interesting guy. And I've always like, I've, when I've heard like him be described or, you know, even like pictures and stuff, he just seems like, seems like a cool guy. That's, I don't know, but he's a guy I'd love to talk to you someday, but um yeah, that's, but that's, that's great. That's another thing about, I think, whether there's a, you know, writer or artist team, then you've got a letterer and, and, and all the things too, of just how much a How much of it like a team effort is obviously this is, you know, this is your idea. And but it's like you have to work with several people on this to make this reality. And yeah, we definitely don't want to we don't want to sell them short either.
Speaker: no not at all. And, you know, shout out to our colorist, Triona Farrell, who's brilliant. She just turned in colors for another issue today and they looked incredible.
Speaker: Our letter is Clayton Coles, who's one of the best in the business. you letters yeah so many Marvel, DC and creator on books. It's it's astonishing. our our cover artist is Steve Lieber, who's a genius.
Speaker: And then our editors, Jamie Rich and Nora Orenstein are incredible. Yeah, like the idea very much originated with me. Once Tad came on board, was our book. Like, you know, when you look at the indisha of the book, it says, showdown created by Dave Volkis and Tad Galusha. The book could not just value him, also like,
Speaker: Once Tad came on board, Tad also had his own life experiences in a town he grew up in and his own, you know, characters from his universe that he wanted to bring in. it's made the comics so much richer. Again, another thing Tad did,
Speaker: He gave Harvey a mullet. And at first I was like, what's this about? he was well, I grew up around a lot of guys who played hockey and they had mullets. And then I had the epiphany where i was like, oh, he has a mullet.
Speaker: Because his his sheriff dad, who probably was in the military, used to cut his hair. And then his girlfriend cut his hair and now they're both out of his life and he just doesn't know where to go to get his hair cut. And I guess sounds like such a minor detail, but like that is Harvey in a nutshell. Like he is a, he is a, uh, he's a six foot two, 260 pound toddler. Yeah.
Speaker: you know I think it's just like another example of like he is literally lost in every single way, even with lost where to go to get your haircut. And it just like even to that small detail, I don't think I thought about it. I mean, I noticed like that change, but i didn't I didn't think about it in that way when I read it. And that's ah yeah now it's just hitting me like, um that's that's ah that's a pretty cool detail that's beyond just the, oh, he looks a little bit more disheveled. like I think that's ah a pretty good point of like, yeah, and because all that all those connections are made. I just didn't think about that that way. Interesting.
Speaker: Ted Colt talked two things. He did the hair and also like see he gave Harvey like maybe 10 or 15 more pounds like across the across a couple of pages. Because the opening we see him like the night that Michael died and then we cut to the present, like he's gained about like maybe 15 pounds. And like, that's a really like hard amount of weight to like discern in a drawing. you know, because again, like these aren't real people, you know, like I've had as an editor, i've had people give me notes where if like this person's clearly not six foot tall And I'm like, well, you're right because they're on a one foot size piece of paper. So they'll never be six feet tall, but it's all about the illusion, right? And Taglius sells the illusion, like, oh, this guy's put on a little little weight.
Speaker: He's little messier than he used to be. He's still kind of got like, the feeling of an athlete but like he's slipping a little bit and again like Chad could do that because he grew up running athletes.
Speaker: He himself was a wrestler. So he brought all this all his own life experience to the drawing that I didn't have to worry about because he had it. Mm-hmm. And yeah, it's that you have a great team around you. I think like the unsung hero in comics, are like it has to be colorist. I think like when people look at artwork, I think they always think of, OK, who's actually you know penciling or who's inking? right But I think like if there's a separate colorist, I just feel like that's such a big part of the the art that people just don't even, like those people do not get the proper recognition most of the time also. So that just makes such a big difference in bringing bring that art to come to life. So shout out to all the colorists out there.
Speaker: Oh, I agree. And with Triona, she had colored one of my favorite comics from last year, Batman Dark Patterns by dan Waters and Hayden Sherman. was just like, this is extraordinary. This book rules. And again, I had worked on Batman for 10 years. And when I left DC, I was like, oh, am I going to be a cynical dude who can't like Batman anymore? And I'm glad to tell you when that book came out, I loved it as much as I'd ever loved a Batman comic. I was like, wow, they gave me this gift I was worried I was never going to get again. so when we were talking about colorists, I had um i written her down as a possibility. And the fact that she's on the book is is delightful. And again, once a month, she just shows up, drops 22 near perfect pages.
Speaker: Maybe we have like a couple notes. She takes care it in couple hours, and then that's it. The book's done. She's tremendous. I hope I get to work with her again as well. Yeah, absolutely. Everything came out great in the book. And you know I think like someone like you has such a you know a wide variety of of experiences in in comics. And I guess well um I asked this question to Tony as well, but this is this is something by someone myself that works like – you know I work in health care basically without going into all the all the details. So it's like, you know, it's a nine to five job. I'm a type of a therapist that does like cognitive rehab basically. And but it's, you know, nine to five job. I got my hours. I got this. I got that. And it's just so far from anything like, I mean, there there's its own elements of creativity. But for people that have taken the path that you have, whether it's as an editor or now as you know, as a writer or when you're doing both, obviously, with your work with IDW, too,
Speaker: What was the thought like you as a kid, like when did you decide like, hey, this could actually be a possibility career wise, whether it was writing or like what was that like? And I think that's always for people listening is always such a thing that's like oh, I had this thought. I had this dream, but it just doesn't seem like it's a possibility. So what was the shift for you there? It's like this is actually an option.
Speaker: I mean, I've wanted to make comics ever since I was a really little kid. And I was like, I'm going to do that. Well, first I wanted to be a Power Ranger. Then my mom said that wasn't really a Which was really heartbreaking. that's That's a tough pill to swallow there. Yeah, I've been there. but she was like but But she was like, well, there's people who make this show for a living.
Speaker: And she was like, i if that's something you could do. You could be the person who makes up the show. And you know I loved, will say I grew up in the Fox Kids generation. I grew up on like Batman Animated Series, X-Men the Animated Series, Spider-Man, Superman.
Speaker: i learned I first met those characters through cartoons. And then when those cartoons ended, I went to find comics. so I was lucky that like I read really great comics. And then obviously a their Marvel and DC in the early thousand Marvel and DC were both like in an amazing period while comics were starting to take over pop culture in the form of superhero movies like the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies, the Nolan Batman movies, the Fox X-Men movies, all that kind of stuff. So I've been very fortunate to grow up in the time or live in the time that I lived in. yeah, so that stuff really shaped me. I just always knew wanted to make comics. At first I wanted to be a cartoonist, but like
Speaker: I don't want to discourage anyone who who was is in a similar situation because you might have the perseverance and endurance to overcome this. I did not. but like I grew up with some like motor skill issues and I had to go to occupational therapy during the day at school.
Speaker: This is the thing I talk about very much, it's thing I think that like if I talk about, like somebody else will relate to it. And so I used to go, like between classes, I used to go work with a therapist one-on-one and like, you know, on my handwriting, on my drawing skills, on my pencil control, and like, you know, just to kind of like make sure that my handwriting can be legible.
Speaker: It's barely legible, but compared to where I started, I'm doing pretty good. But like, I just didn't have the the wherewithal to kind of learn to draw properly, even though i wanted to make comics.
Speaker: So was like, okay, like I can't draw, but like I can write. So then i was like, I'm going to be a writer. But then that meant like I had to find people who draw and I met people in high school who draw and I worked with them. I eventually like wrote and self published my own novel because was like, look, like if I'm a writer, I should be able to write anything. But also at the time when I was growing up in the early 2000s reading comics, a lot of comic book writers were also novelists, were also screenwriters, were also playwrights.
Speaker: So the idea of like, oh, you should be able to write more than one thing. wasn't foreign to me but like writing comics was always the number one dream and like i'm writing comics right now professionally which is everything to me and i know that i should probably also work on some other stuff i know i should probably you know go work on that movie idea i have or go write the pilot i idea i have like i just love comics so much you know i love movies and tv and books as well. But like now that I'm being right, college professionally, I'm just like, I just want to keep doing this. I will do those other things. I know I will be like, get right. Comics it's the best. and for one of the reasons you said which is like
Speaker: get to work with all people and collaborate and like make this stuff real and like watching it happen in real time every day in my inbox. It's it's truly magic. okay Yeah. That's, that's so interesting too. Cause I feel like that's, that's, I feel like everybody has had a thought of like, Oh, what could I, think not that it's always comics or even writing just like, I think anybody could benefit from like, how can I create something when we're in a time where it consuming is great, but a lot of us probably consume more than we make. And we probably it's probably good to have somewhat of a balance there. It's like whether it's, you know making something doesn't be comics. It could be it could be woodworking. It could be, you know, whatever. Right. But it's creating something where we live in the society of of constant consumption and that sort of thing, too.
Speaker: um So when you how did the how did the DC opportunity come up? I know that you interned. So you interned at DC and Marvel, correct? Yep, entered DC first when I was a between sophomore and junior year of college and then the fall of my senior year in college I interned at Marvel.
Speaker: So what happened basically is, it's funny how everything's kind of connected. in in When I was at the Marvel internship, the news had broken DC was gonna leave their long time New York office and go to Los Angeles. The the full company was gonna work out of LA and no longer be a bi-coastal company.
Speaker: And everybody was like shook. And I, as a 21 year old kid was like, it's probably not gonna affect me. And i literally had lunch with a friend of mine who's still a good friend. I was trying to get some information. you know, I knew I needed to get a job.
Speaker: Well, school ended. He was like, yeah, you know, they're not hiring anybody right now, man. You're probably not going to get a job in D.C. And i was like, ah, rats. OK, so that's the door that's closed. But then in the in the spring semester, but, you know, we call it the spring semester. It was mostly the winter semester. Right. So it's for three months the East Coast where I was going to school. It was terrible.
Speaker: ah I got an email. And i I was basically informed like, Hey, listen, there's a lot of people want to stay in New York and they're not going to make the move to LA and we need people to come.
Speaker: Like, help us make the books in the interim. We need temporary assistant editors. So they reached out to all of us who had been interns last couple of years, because we already have some on the job training because we've been interns and they were like, can you please come in and and and interview with us?
Speaker: And it was like early It was late in February, early in March, was there was a blizzard outside, and I was like, hey, I still have a couple like months left in school. Are you sure you want me to come in?
Speaker: and theyre like yes please come in and i was coming in to New York from New Jersey. i took an hour long train ride. And then because I was scared of the subway because I was a ah baby, I walked through like 20 blocks of snow in sneakers and a hooded sweatshirt because I was a dope.
Speaker: And then i get to the i get to the office, which was across the street from what was then David Letterman's studio and what was then also what was recently Stephen Colbert's studio and i get there and I'm ready for my interview I sit down with the editor-in-chief and the editorial director who are lovely people and they look at me and they go are you still in school and I was like yeah They're oh, you can't do this, you gotta go. was like, ugh.
Speaker: So I had to trudge back through the snow after I said I couldn't do it and they said it coming anyway. then a friend of mine got that open job. But then i graduated from school. Two weeks after I graduated, i got an email from a person who was down my friend, Brittany Holzer, who is the who is a senior editor at DC.
Speaker: At the time, she was the editor-in-chief's assistant. And she was like, hey, like I know that the last time we did this, this didn't work out, but we're looking for a temporary Batman assistant editor. Would you come in for this job?
Speaker: You're going to talking to Mark Doyle, who's the new Batman group editor. And I think he graduated from the school, so I think it'll work out this time. And I was like, All right, but you tricked me again. So I go down to new York City with my brother. i remember my brother I took my brother with me. My brother, I think, sat outside the office while I went upstairs and i did the interview. And I met with Mark Doyle, who before becoming Batman for Better, he was an Edward Vertigo.
Speaker: He worked on like all the comics I loved. he worked on American vampire, worked scalps, he worked on all this stuff where I recognized his name. So was very intimidated by him. He was also from Massachusetts like me and we really hit it off. And then I got the job and I moved to not New York. I moved to Jersey city, New Jersey, and I took the train and every day to go to work.
Speaker: So I worked, I worked the DC offices New York for a year. then after a year, um They were like, okay, do you want come me this to to LA? I had the interview for the job again full time, but I got it.
Speaker: Oh, but the ah connective tissue between the Marvel and DC internships, because some people would be like, well, you interned at two places that are pretty but much identical, right? And I was like, similar, not identical.
Speaker: Here's the important thing that happened. I interned at the X-Men office when I was at Marvel, which was awesome. And there was editor who worked there named Janine Schaefer, who was brilliant. She's so smart. She's an awesome person.
Speaker: And she was married, is married to Mark Doyle. who was the group editor Batman. And when my resume came up and said, interned with X-Men group, he was like, hey, do you know this kid, Dave? And she's oh yeah, we work with Dave. Dave's good guy.
Speaker: You should interview him. I think it'll work out. So like i got the I got this Janine bump from having worked with her at Marvel. So even though they knew me at DC and they put in good work for me, like i do think it was interning at Marvel with the person this guy lived with. you stop like you know I think the people at set the ball in volleyball terms, and then the brilliant Janine Shafer came in and smiked it and won the game for me.
Speaker: That's awesome. Yeah, that's such a and I think like anywhere in life, it's like it's, you know, it's it's who you know, if you do a good job at what you do. Right. It's one of those things. like Yeah. I'm happy you said that. It's, it's who you know, if you did a good job because people do get mad words like, i you know, like, you know, people like people have connections. Do you know the only people I know that i don't recommend for stuff? Right. You know, and you absolutely. Yeah. I think that comes up in really anything. I mean, especially where there's like, there's a lot more people that want to get into what you do than what there are spots available. And it's like, there's only so many spots and yeah, so that helps. But that person just as easily could have said, no, don't interview him.
Speaker: And then you have no shot. And it's like, you're, you're, no chance to even walk in the door at that point. So yeah, so you know, but you got to be good to be able to like actually get that recommendation because people don't put their stamp of approval on somebody for no reason yeah because they got their own reputation to worry about, too. So absolutely. OK, so what what is like I think for people that don't truly know like the job of an editor which most people listen to this that is we're talking kind of the process and stuff like that probably understand but like what what do you makes and like what makes a effective editor whether it's working in the batman group or whether it's working you creator own stuff like what makes an effective editor on on comic projects
Speaker: Vision, you have to be able to see how something is going to work out. So you have to have a pretty good imagination, you know, because you're putting together a lot of projects in your head and then you're executing them in real life.
Speaker: And I don't mean this in a very i don mean this in a rude way, but there's there's people who who enter editorial and they're very rigid and they're very um literal and they're like very like they have like they have like an aggressive sense of rules. And it's not impossible to succeed when you're that way, but like I have found as an editor, you need to be like flexible.
Speaker: You cannot have like a one size fits all approach. You have to be willing to meet a lot of different creative people where they are. And again, you have to be able to imagine not only what people can do right now, excuse me, but could do if you gave them opportunities.
Speaker: So you also have to have, you have to believe in people because you have to hire people to execute this work like you know, when when if somebody came to me and said, hey, Dave, we need you to put together a Batman anthology.
Speaker: it needs to have this many pages. this is what we'd like it to focus on. Go hire the creators and make the book. like I have to be able to sit down and be like, who's the best people for the job? And like, who am I going to give a chance to pitch for this?
Speaker: So, yeah, it's a lot of imagination. And that's being able to like take those ideas you have and like protect them, pitch for them, execute them in real life, and then give the creators you work with the space to do the work that makes them proud. Because they have to execute it. At the end of the day, it's their story, not mine. you know Even if I hired them for something that I had a nugget of an idea for, once they write it, it's theirs, you know? Right. Because I'm sure that people have also heard a lot of bad stories about editors making people write stories that they themselves wanted to write.
Speaker: And I can say, thankfully, I never did that. okay But yeah, I think it's about vision. think it's about imagination. And I think it's about believing in people. Those are the things i would say are the most important aspects of being an editor. And, you know,
Speaker: Being someone who people want to work for, like, you know, one of my bosses once told me like, when your name shows up on someone's email inbox or their caller ID, they should go, oh, Dave, this is going to be awesome. Instead of oh no, it's Dave, you know?
Speaker: so So also creating an environment where people want to not only work with you once, but work with you again. I think that's one of the things that I mean, a lot people can get better. And this is just my guess for what I do for my career and like I have patients I work with and it's like usually long term. So it's like there's a lot of relationship buildings, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that, too. I feel like that's that is the thing that for other professionals like myself in that type of setting that I have met along the way to not that you can improve.
Speaker: But I feel like it's one of those things that it's really hard to teach. Like it's really hard each to be, you know, to a to collaborate well, to be that person that people like are excited to work with and to create kind of that environment. um Again, not that you can't work on that. People can. I've seen people get, you know, I think better and better at those things.
Speaker: But some of that is just like, I think who you are and just like, you know, probably a big part is putting your own thoughts and ego aside and being able to like put you know put kind of the group in front of yourself. So do you feel like that's a skill that is just like this, that's just, you mentioned your parents and how they're great people. Is this just how you're raised? Is this a skill that you feel like, okay, I had to work on during your career to make, make like make ah if you're an editor, kind of make a a safe place and a place that you know we collaborate well with? Is that something that you feel like you've always had or has that been something that you've developed more over time?
Speaker: I think I had to learn to play with others better as an editor. i had, I definitely like a chip on my shoulder when I was younger and I had some bad habits had to grow out of. i think when it came to working with creators, I was always pretty well liked. Like I had a really high, I've always had a good relationship with a lot of creators and continue to, to this day. but yeah, in terms my parents, like,
Speaker: My mom is a nurse. So like you, she has deal with like a ton of people all the time. And like, they're all different. Like she can't, and like also my mom is a nurse who gets people ready for surgery.
Speaker: And like, even if you, whether your surgery is big or small, like, that's a very stressful thing and like she has to sit with you before you go in there go hey like Are you, do feel okay? Like we're going to this prep work together. Like she has to deal with people on like one of the most stressful days of her, of their lives every day.
Speaker: And has to deal with, she has to talk to people every day like that. And my dad a salesman. He was also, when was a kid, he was a bartender and now he owns that bar he used to bartend at, but those are both
Speaker: you don't with people and you have to be like kind you know you have to be someone people want to deal with and i learned a lot of people skills from my parents without a shadow of a doubt and you know also like this job is creative but it's very stressful and especially in terms of the the art aspect like you know i'm not saying that writing isn't hard especially she because it's the part of the job that i do like drawing comics is both creative and physical laborer and like i grew up around people who like did physical labor for work. and like
Speaker: you like I've seen people who do physical labor for work not get treated with the respect and dignity that they deserve. And it's Listen, like there's so many artists who like stop drawing because of the wear and tear that gets put on their body or and or because they don't feel like they're appreciated.
Speaker: so it's like, hey, man, like you better appreciate everybody who does this job, no matter if they're like the biggest superstar in the business or a guy doing like a filling issue. So we we were talking about some of your your editing work, and you know obviously DC was ah a big part of that too. And I wanted to i want to touch just a couple minutes on on man band Man Bat. Oh, please. Man Bat was so awesome. I loved that. I i didn't read it when it came out, and i read it, and I really, really enjoyed that and too. And it's another – story that I thought, like, again, I think, like, superhero comics gets, you know they get criticized quite a bit, I think, over time of just, like, okay, we are, you know, we've we've got the the villains, we throw them Arkham or Blackgate or things like that, too, and I loved the, kind of, the
Speaker: as we're getting into that where, um, man, that there's, there's some, there's some things going on here. And then we have that conversation with, with Batman and and man, that where Batman's like, I've done everything I can do to try to help you. Because I thought, basically, I don't know what the line was, but basically because I thought that you were, could get your life together, that that sort of thing too. Um, but anyway, I such ah such a, such a fun story.
Speaker: And again, has more of that emotional depth that I think was, is, um, I think so needed. And just a take on like Batman that we don't, you know, we see it sometimes, but not always where it's like, you see that humanity that he definitely has, but it's not, um it's not shown in that way all the time too. So kind of just give us an overview on, on that as a project too. Obviously that's not create our own book, but obviously that's going to vary and how things are made. But,
Speaker: Obviously, you've done other writing work for DC and stuff as well. But what is it like writing those characters where it's like, okay, I grew up watching the cartoons and reading these books? What is that experience like to to be able to kind of play in that in that sandbox? Yeah.
Speaker: it was It's a dream come true every single time. I love doing it every single time. and And man, that was really the biggest thing I got to write at DC while I was still on staff. And it was the thing that made me go, it's time for me to go and be a writer.
Speaker: So I got to write that mini series and it was drawn by the brilliant Sumit Kumar, who I really hope I get to work with again. was colored by Romulo Fajardo Jr. And it was colored, it was lettered, excuse me, by a Tom DePolitano and it was just a blast and like i I was learning on the fly I mean I'd written a ton of short stories for DC but like you know that was my first time writing something longer than 16 pages so I learned a lot but like you know I'd obviously I'd been editing Batman for a long time up until that point I'd known the DC characters my whole life and again like you said like I love the animated versions which are usually the voices I hear in my head when I read or work on the characters yeah Same. So for me, it was just like, OK, it's time to do my job. And they just wanted to do a Man Bat miniseries, basically. And at the time, the character was on Justly Dark. And that book was written by James Tyne IV and drawn by Alvaro Martinez Bueno, two guys I'd worked with on.
Speaker: Detective Comics and James had set up that's that man that manda had done something so bad before he got here that now he was this little mad scientist version of man that and he like you aggressively following rules and trying to behave.
Speaker: So there was an untold story of what the hell happened here? What happened to the monster? And also like especially in not recently, because recently they've been very connected. But in the past, there was a tendency to like do projects where like you would use the same characters, but they wouldn't connect.
Speaker: And then people would be like, how come this doesn't have anything to do with the other book I'm reading with this character? So for me, As a fan, like like, I want these things to connect but also because I had such a reverence affection for James and Alvaro I was like, they opened the door here. like Let's tell a fun story.
Speaker: So we told the story of man back going on his worst monster bender ever, and it having serious and severe consequences. And it gave us the opportunity to talk about like, why do we do things that we know are bad for us.
Speaker: Why do we stay around people we know are going to do bad things and make mistakes? How can people change? What kind of boundaries do we have to put up to protect ourselves from people who can't change? What kind of boundaries do we have to put up with ourselves to make ourselves change?
Speaker: And you know try to do that with a with a ah story set in the Batman and part of the DC universe. And to your point, like, yeah, when superhero comics are bad, like, They don't feel like they're very human or very connected.
Speaker: And to me, when superhero comics are at their best, they're using these genre elements and these these heightened versions of reality to connect deeper with ah with the humanity that we all share.
Speaker: um And, you know, I think i think like with Showdown, there might be by people who read my work and go, this is a little too much for little too emotional for me.
Speaker: But for me, I think art should be emotional. I think art should be raw. I think people, I think, I think there's people who like struggle to connect with each other and struggle to connect with themselves. in Art helps them build a bridge to themselves, the bridge to other people. So when I hear people read something, I didn't go, Hey, I understood that. And I went through something that, it helped me understand something I went through, or I know people like this, or I know, or I've been people like this.
Speaker: That means more to me than people being like, I just kind of want something more simple. And, you know, like, I like having fun, too. But like I do think my work will probably always have that layer of people are people are people are challenging. Even people we love the most are challenging, you know, unlike we're also really challenging to ourselves.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's when storytelling, at least again, everyone, there's different flavors of ice cream, there's people of different preferences. And yes there's, there's, there's times where I'm not in the mood for, you know, something that is like so heavy. And, you know, I have some, some themes I'll just avoid altogether that just like, okay, I, I don't want to ignore this as an issue.
Speaker: But I i i can't – I've got to be careful with what my brain consumes. But like emotion is – I think like that's – to me, I kind of gravitate to those type of topics. I'm like, okay, this is human. This is emotional.
Speaker: um But I think there's – yeah, there's there's room for everything too. But I think this book has like a good blend where it's like, okay, there's that emotional toll. But yet it's like we are still you know in Gotham City and there's kind of that – and And beyond, but there are so there's still that aspect of kind of the the fantastical and and some of those things too. But I really, i really did enjoy that too. And, and I didn't know that that was the backstory of having to go back to things. It's like, okay, how do we get to this point? So we have to kind of like, we start here and work backwards. that's kind of It's kind of a unique challenge as well, but it does come up, but yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and that's the but that's also the fun of working in a shared superhero universe is like, I'm picking up the baton from somebody else and then I pass the baton off. Like, after I'd written Nandat and then Nandat,
Speaker: After that, he was in Justice League Dark and then he was in Task Force z then he died and then he And then Josh Williamson brought him back in Batman and Robin. Josh called me with hey, want to let you know, I'm bringing back Man-Bat. I was like, okay, that's cool.
Speaker: That's how the game works. you know like We're passing off the character. like ah you know like If you say that like everything I did didn't happen, that'd be a bummer. But like as long as that's not the case, like, hey, rock and roll, brother, do your story. you know So I told my story with Man-Bat, then...
Speaker: um you know James and Alvaro told theirs and then um Matt Rosenberg and Eddie Barrows told their story and then Joshua Williamson and Simone de Maile told their story and eventually somebody else will pick up Man Bat and maybe they'll use things that I gave the character and included for him like you know like I fleshed out that he had a sister who was hearing impaired and I'm really proud of the relationship they had and I'm proud of like You know, I think that sometimes when we show people with, um we show differently abled people in comics or in media, like, we don't usually allow them or afford them the opportunity to be full people and to have, like, opinions and things that make them upset. Like, they need to kind of be, like, saintly. And, like, I'm really proud that that character wasn't saintly, that Lisa, um,
Speaker: Lisa Langstrom, double L, was not a saintly person. She was a person who loved her brother, but was also very frustrated that her brother kind of went down this bad road, maybe, maybe partially blamed her for it. You know?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. She's, yeah, she's a very interesting character. I did enjoy that kind of dynamic with, with those two, but, um but Dave, yeah, you've been very generous with your time. I told you, I'm not going to keep you more than an hour and we're already over an hour. So thank you again so much for the time. And before I let you go um where can people, you know, what's the best way people can kind of follow what you're doing to to support you. You mentioned the newsletter. So plug everything that you can at the end here too.
Speaker: Absolutely. First of all, thank you for having me. This is a great show and I had a great time. Thank you. ah You can follow me on blue sky and Instagram at Dave will guess and then i have a newsletter called weekly update.
Speaker: ah B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com. Today we put up a post where i interviewed Showdown Co-Care, Tad Valusha, and every week I post a ton of process about making comics, about Showdown, about other products that are coming up. And it's the best place you can keep up with me. So my Blue Sky, my Instagram, and my Beehive newsletter, can follow me there. And I post very regularly.
Speaker: And most importantly, Showdown just came out this week. There's an issue of Showdown out in July, August, September, and October. And then also the end of July, my first Batman story is a full-time writer in Detective Comics Annual 2026. We did the backup story, me and staff friend Mariscal. The main story is by Tom Taylor and Nicholas Scott. Do not miss it.
Speaker: Yeah, there's there's so many things that we could talk about. I want to have you back on at some point if you ever want to come back and talk about all your work. there's There's so many things we just didn't even like get into at all. but But again, thank you, Dave, so much for the for the time. Wish you guys all the best, and I'll be following along, and hope to have you back on the show sometime.
Speaker: Perfect. Thank you so much, man. i appreciate it.
