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Kasey Iris Talks Ghoul!
14 Plays15 days ago
The guest for this episode is Kasey Iris! We discussed her new debut OGN Ghoul, working with Top Shelf Productions/IDW, her start in art and comics, her process, and more!
Ask your local bookstore or comic shop to order Ghoul. You can also order on Penguin Random House.
Support Kasey by following her on Instagram
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Transcript
Introduction to the Episode and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome everybody to another episode of From Script to Shelf, a comic book podcast. So on this episode we have an exciting guest. We have Casey Iris, who is the writer and artist on the on the new OGN Ghoul, which is her first her first book. So that was pretty cool, coming out through Top Shelf Productions, which is an imprint of IDW. And this was Casey's first podcast interview. So um please show her some love by ordering the book.
00:00:37
Speaker
Take a listen to this. She
Casey's Unique Perspective on Comics
00:00:38
Speaker
did. She did a great too. It has a very interesting story as far as how she got into comics, immigrating to the U.S. and brings a pretty unique perspective into um the world of comics too. So we hope to have her back on the show at some point and hopefully there's more books coming out from her in the future. So check out this interview.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of From Script to Shelf, a comic book podcast. So we have a very exciting guest today. So joining the show is Casey Iris. Casey, how are you doing this evening?
00:01:09
Speaker
Good. How are you, Matthew? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thanks again for taking the time to to join and set up setting up this recording. I know it has to we had to record in the evening. I have a day job, so I appreciate your flexibility. So it kind of like when we were setting up this this interview with with Kim, I'm like, well, I can do really any night mostly, but it's got to be like after this time. I know that sometimes gets hard to schedule. So thank you for being flexible with my ah ah kind of normal business hours,
Early Influences and Love for Spooky Themes
00:01:37
Speaker
I guess. But well, Casey, you've got your new book that came out this month. So we're going to talk about Google a whole lot here too. But we were talking before we started recording that this is your first podcast interview. You've done other things where they've covered the book and they've covered you know you via print. But since it is your first podcast interview, I think it'd be kind of helpful to kind of start from the beginning and What is kind of your comic book slash graphic novel slash art kind of origins? What were the things that kind of got you into this medium?
00:02:09
Speaker
I would go back to being a kid, you know, how you're just drawn to cartoons and just comic books. But I wasn't really into like Marvel or any of that.
00:02:22
Speaker
The first comic book I remember picking up was Bone by um Jeff Smith. So that one, I think that was what sparked the idea of like, oh, comics.
00:02:35
Speaker
um But mostly like Disney movies, like from the 90s. I grew up watching those. um But I was really drawn to like more spooky movies. Even my parents were like, oh, that's a weird kid. Like I love Beetlejuice and Casper the Friend of Ghost. That was my favorite.
00:02:59
Speaker
Most favorite movie. Um, so yeah. like like Spooky, but you mentioned in, I, this came across in, in Google about like, there was a line again, without spoiling anything major about, um, that kind of translate into, into the book a little bit too. And there was a line about liking things that are spooky. I'm not sure how you said that, but as far as like not liking horror movies, those that's the distinction, right? So spooky is good, but horror movies are no good. Right.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, i I don't really know how to describe it because there are some horror movies that I do get into. But once it gets into more of like the gore and like totally evil things that freaks me out. So I just like to stay in a certain lane when it comes to the spooky things. Okay, sure.
Growing Up in Hong Kong and Comic Exposure
00:03:45
Speaker
Some cartoons were there as well. So you were Disney movies you have any favorites?
00:03:51
Speaker
ah My favorite growing up was Beauty and the Beast. Okay. It's a classic. I don't know if you can see a theme here with Ghoul. I really like the human and the non-human character um duo so yeah Absolutely. Okay. And because you mentioned, we were talking about this too, about, you know, kind of you moved from from Hong Kong and then to the States and then went back over and then came back to. That's something I really have...
00:04:19
Speaker
no experience with whatsoever as far as like, what was it like growing up there in regards to like, whether it's cartoons, comics, like what was kind of your exposure when you lived in Hong Kong before you came to the States?
00:04:31
Speaker
Um, when I was in Hong Kong, it was a British colony at that time yeah in the early nineties. So, um, it was a weird mix of like British shows, like Mr. Bean, um,
00:04:46
Speaker
And then there was also some channels that showed a lot of Japanese cartoons. So like Doraemon, Sailor Moon, that sort of thing. So that was my exposure with like cartoons or TV shows and things. But there wasn't a lot of comics there.
00:05:02
Speaker
i remember. My parents' friend's kid, she collected Archie comics. So I also read those, but I was also kind of too young to read those. i was like, oh, why are they kissing?
Developing Artistic Skills and Career Transition
00:05:13
Speaker
But yeah, there wasn't a lot of exposure to comics over there.
00:05:19
Speaker
Okay. well For me at least. Sure. Okay. And that kind of started when you moved over um to the States. And so you weren't like a big superhero fan. You mentioned um Bone is is kind of one of the the first things too.
00:05:32
Speaker
When did your knack for obviously with with with Google, you were doing you are the author, but also illustrator as well. um When did that become something that you kind of dipped your toe into? Like, as i'm I'm assuming this is something that you developed as a kid and just kept going into adulthood as far as some of your artistic talents. So tell me more about that. When did that become a thing where you started and noticed like, oh, I'm actually pretty, pretty good at this?
00:05:57
Speaker
I've never considered myself to be a writer, actually. Like, i was always drawing since I was little, um since I could remember, but I didn't think I could actually write a full story until a couple years ago.
00:06:14
Speaker
um But my dad did show me like little cartoons I would make, like little comic strips. I would make as a child, like there was one instance where we were fighting because he didn't want to buy me a toy.
00:06:30
Speaker
um So I locked myself in my room and he saw a slip of paper just you know slide under the door. and It was a comic strip. And basically like each panel was showing, oh, dad won't buy me this toy. Oh, I'm crying.
00:06:43
Speaker
The next panel is, he doesn't love me because he didn't buy me this toy. And I guess that was like kind of a glimpse into that. Like, oh, I guess I have that sort of storytelling mind.
00:06:56
Speaker
i don't know. So there was some sequential art going on from the from pretty early on and like, oh, this there's ah there's a story being told with this too. Do people, are there other people in your family that are like have some of the same gifts as you? Cause I, I, I'm always fascinated with that because I really don't have a, um, an artistic bone in my body. So it's like, I can appreciate it, but it's like, I could draw stick figures and that's about it. Um, so growing up in your household, was that something that was encouraged or, um, is that like totally new for your family?
00:07:28
Speaker
Um, my parents are both, they both graduated in architecture. So They're both skilled draftsmen, but they weren't into drawing comics or like art. Well, my dad told me that when he was little, he used to paint a lot, but he sort of like, put that in the back burner when he realized like, oh, it's not a stable career. So he kind of gave up on that.
00:07:53
Speaker
So yeah, I guess I got it from them. Sure. and makes Makes sense. Because that's ah being an architect is that's not ah not an easy job. So that that makes makes a lot of sense too. did you When did you realize that's like, okay, you're maybe better than other are like kids around your age. Like, okay. Like, cause you know, everyone has their own talents and I can remember growing up, there was friends I had that's like, wow, like that's really good. You just drew that. And like I have no talent in that area at all. So when did you notice that's like, oh, this is like one one of my knacks or one of my skills that maybe other people don't have?
00:08:28
Speaker
think and art class, yeah. elementary school, my teachers always and noticed it. I didn't really notice it. I guess until now, I always believe everyone can draw. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. I never look at ah a piece of iron to say it's bad.
00:08:49
Speaker
you know i i just think everyone has a different sort of take in how they see the world. But I remember in high school, I had a teacher And um she went up to me about one assignment. She said, Casey, I know you're a good artist, but I could tell you didn't try. And that really hurt me. I didn't understand where she was going with that. I was like, I didn't try. but then the more I sat on it and when I look back, I realized, oh, I get what she was trying to say. Like she could tell that I was using my gift or talent, but I'm
00:09:26
Speaker
I didn't put as much effort in it as I should have. Sure, sure. Yeah, and that's, i think for a lot of people, they, I mean, I think that's the one thing about looking at for comics or graphic novels, like everyone I've i've talked to, it's like it's it feels like it's such a different path for everybody to kind of get to where they end up as far as there's some people that are like very formally trained and they go through this this and this. Other people are like kind of self-taught. And then anyway, so that that goes lots of different paths. When did that become a thought for you where it's like because I remember at the the end of your book,
00:10:00
Speaker
that you kind of had a list of who you were wanting to thank and and and things like that too. And one of the, I think that's where I saw this one of, there was a note where you had kind of mentioned like, okay, I kind of changed course in like schooling and maybe what you were doing for work and and like stuff like that too. So what were you originally hoping to kind of do and how did you kind of pivot into like trying to make this a priority career wise, as far as going more into the the art world, I guess?
00:10:27
Speaker
I would go back to middle school. And um that was when i discovered Sojo Manga. And it's kind of like a romantic comedy type of genre. And um I really liked drawing up until high school. But I think because I graduated high school a year early, and that was when I thought about my future more.
00:10:51
Speaker
But it was like during um the recession in 2008, and my dad lost his job. So I felt a lot of pressure as what sort of career I should um pursue.
00:11:08
Speaker
And um at that time, my passion was illustration. I still love drawing. um I felt like it's something I needed to do, but at that time it wasn't doable.
00:11:19
Speaker
So I kind of looked at all the other like creative sort of courses I could take, something that could sustain me. So I took interior design, which is not far off from architecture, what my parents work in. um And yeah, and then I took arc earth i took interior design in college and I finished the course and then I worked in an architectural office for three years. And that whole time, like four years college, three years in the office, I felt like I was just pushing myself and I didn't enjoy it at all.
00:11:55
Speaker
So um yeah, I came to a point where I had to make the decision to leave it. um It wasn't easy because as my parents are, you know, they're immigrant parents. We're Filipino and, you know, being from an Asian family, we have a lot of expectations.
00:12:17
Speaker
So, yeah, it was hard, but my parents were very supportive in that. I think they saw that I was struggling and um yeah. And then made the move.
00:12:27
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I made the move. Made the move. And yeah, that's something I think that I talked to, um, couple episodes ago, I talked to Tony, Tony fleece and he's doing death stroke now. And he's doing, you know, he's, um, has a couple of pretty popular books at image. And, and I asked that question to him as far as like, what's different for you where it's, I think a lot of people have their, their goals and aspirations that are maybe not, you know, the stereotypical career, but then I think a lot of people just think it's not realistic or you it's not as sustainable income. And I think lots of artists obviously do other things as well. um
00:13:02
Speaker
But it just, I think that's a very different mindset that people have where like they have the, I guess the guts, as you say, to kind of make that jump into kind of prioritize that where I think most people have those goals and just kind of either out of fear or think it's not possible. They just don't take that, that step. So um what do you think again, for you, it's probably just second nature.
Creating 'Ghoul' During the Pandemic
00:13:21
Speaker
Cause that's just, obviously you made the jump. So it's, you know, probably just part of who you are, but what do you think,
00:13:26
Speaker
that is that made you kind of make that move or maybe other people would decide just to stay with what's safe and to not pursue that, that end goal.
00:13:38
Speaker
I think just to be very like Frank early, I don't know. I can't find the word transparent just to be transparent. Um, I felt myself going to a very dark place. i was I remember I had like a panic attack after work one time. And I think it's also because I worked in Hong Kong and that city is very um very work driven, very competitive. It's also very crowded and it was just a lot at once.
00:14:14
Speaker
So yeah, I guess like for my own mental health, I knew that I had to make a change. um I still have a day job now, but it's not something that would require me to be in an office for a long period of time.
00:14:36
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, I think that's important for while maybe, maybe the people that take, you know, are not always taking big steps like you are in like releasing your your own book and things like that too. But I think it's important for everybody to have kind of their outlets where it's like, I have control over. what I want to do with this and things that I enjoy doing. Like that's why I do this, this podcast. I mean, it's, it's, it's for me, it's for fun doing things that I like that I can control. And that part is pretty, pretty exciting. And I think that everybody should have something that is, that is that obviously you're probably taking your, your, your arts more serious than I am with doing my podcast. It's a kind of different levels, but, but I think it's important for everybody.
00:15:14
Speaker
it might look different to have their own thing. And you mentioned like the mental health side of things too. And that obviously does come up in, in Google, um was that always the way that you feel like, like if you had to release something on your own for the first time, kind of bridging into, into your, your book, was that always meant to be like, I want to like introduce that in a way to find a way that we can talk about that with more of a young adult audience, or was that, I guess, how did that come to be? How did you decide to take the route that you did with, with Google?
00:15:45
Speaker
Well, in terms of brain mental health, into Gould. That wasn't part of the plan at all. I think it just sort of came up once I started um just rewriting the script. um I think it's also because I wrote it during the pandemic, so a lot of things were surfacing. um I sat a lot with myself alone. yeah Had a lot of thoughts about the past, present, future, maybe a lot more about the past. um
00:16:19
Speaker
So I think it just naturally came up as I wrote it. um And I didn't intend on including my friend who passed away into the book and now it it's kind of weird feeling. um i don't know if I would still include that if I had a chance to write Ghoul again, just because i tend to overthink things and I think, oh, I don't want to be like earning profit over a book and mentioning her. and Like it feels very I don't know if I'm respecting by
00:16:54
Speaker
i including her in the book, but I felt like it needed to be done at the time I was writing it. And it was just a very honest reflection of how i was feeling at the time and how I needed to tell this story.
00:17:09
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. And it's everything is done in a very like respectful way. And it's I think that's where the best stories are told is obviously when there's when it's you know personal to you and it um then it becomes more than just something that's entertainment. You know, I think that's an an important thing to how can we entertain, but also to share an experience, you know, share those types of things. So um I think i think, again, I'm an outsider saying this, but obviously I think you handled it quite well, quite well.
00:17:36
Speaker
And i think that's so I think it's honoring your friend. That's the way that I would take that, too. But how did you absolutely absolutely how did so how did just the idea of the book come together. I know that you've been working on it for you know quite some time and these things. That's another question I have to is I think people that are that read.
00:17:53
Speaker
And they're looking at, again, comics, graphic novels, manga, things things of that nature. i think people read and there's new books all the time too, but I don't think they realize how long these things actually do take not only to then to to write, to draw, but just to go through the process of actually getting something published and to market it and all those things too. So tell tell us a little bit more about what that experience has been like. How did this kind of come to be? How did you get hooked up with Top Shelf?
00:18:19
Speaker
And just kind of kind of how did that get started for you? So um after I quit my job in Hong Kong and moved back to Chicago, i found a school called International School of Comics.
00:18:33
Speaker
RIP, it's no longer with
Path to Publishing 'Ghoul' with Top Shelf Productions
00:18:35
Speaker
us. But um at the time, it had actual um artists and writers that were working in the industry. So that's what drew me to it. Also, it was affordable. Yeah, that that helps too. Yeah. And... um So yeah, it was a three-year comics course. It was part-time. I went there at night um after i was working a day job.
00:19:04
Speaker
And we had an assignment um to create a Little Red Riding Hood story in our own way. And that's how Red came up.
00:19:16
Speaker
I just made a spooky version of it because I couldn't really think of a nuanced way to... you know, to retell the story. So I just changed the style.
00:19:27
Speaker
And then there was another assignment for a project two years later, and it was um create your own comic because I had Dan Daughtry as my one of my teachers. He's a comic artist, musician, writer. He's amazing. um And ah He really enforced in us like, hey, it's cool if you want to work in Marvel or DC or some big time comic company, but it's really good if you could have your own, create your own comic, you have your own characters, something you can actually own.
00:20:04
Speaker
So I had three different ideas. One of them was called Buried Demon. It's like a burrito monster, and it was inspired by the day job I had at the time.
00:20:18
Speaker
I won't name the restaurant. And the other option idea I had was kind of like a evil puppet come to life. I didn't have that fully fleshed out.
00:20:32
Speaker
um And then the third option was school. So I really wanted to reuse school for my red comic. And i also didn't really know how to, but that was one of the options.
00:20:45
Speaker
And we voted in class and everyone chose Berydiamen. So I ended up making that comic. It's a 22 page comic. I really liked that one. um But i think a few months later, my other teacher, his name's Douglas Klauba.
00:21:03
Speaker
He's an illustrator. He's a master at painting. um He really, I don't know, like he heard about that project from the other class and he said, I think you should really revisit Ghoul. And I wasn't sure, but we did talk about in class what were our goals after school, like after we were done with the course. And I said, I'd like to make graphic novels.
00:21:30
Speaker
I don't know why I said that, given that I didn't think of myself as a writer, but I think because I really love reading novels and graphic novels and just like the idea of holding a full novel in my hand made by me would be really cool.
00:21:48
Speaker
So yeah, he told me i I should revisit Cool and that was how it started. And how does so you how does it go to like getting I don't know if you had to pitch to pitch the book to different companies. How did you decide to go with like top shelf and like people go all sorts of different routes, whether they self publish, whether they try to hook up with the company or um for them, I'm not even sure how it works, but how did that come to be where it's like, okay, I have this book.
00:22:15
Speaker
How do we go from that to start to look at like, okay, this is a real possibility that we can move forward with this in production and getting that um kind of picked up.
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, From the moment that I knew I had to make goal into graphic novel, I played around with the art style and the story, and it was all over the place. And i I didn't want to approach a publisher until I had a final script. And that wasn't until probably a year and a half or two years later from the initial idea. um And when I did have the final script and some sample pages,
00:22:59
Speaker
Well, like I knew I didn't want to self publish because I knew people in the industry who did that. And I just didn't have the mental capacity. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of that's lot of work. It's another job in of itself.
00:23:13
Speaker
It's like you need to have a business mindset, which I didn't have time to study or research how to do that. So i just Googled open submissions graphic novel.
00:23:25
Speaker
And one of the companies that came up was Top Shelf Productions. And so I just emailed Chris and I sent all the requirements that were listed on the website.
00:23:37
Speaker
And yeah, and then I heard back, I think within that day I sent it out, which I wasn't expecting because I always hear people say that it takes months before you hear back.
00:23:50
Speaker
So he replied back and he said, hey, I received your submission package just to let you know i'm really backed up. I probably won't reply to you in two weeks because i have other projects I need to check out.
00:24:04
Speaker
and i And then I said, okay, fine. So I wasn't expecting a reply back till a few weeks. um And then Chris replied the next day, I think. which was crazy. And he said, oh, I read the script. um When can we talk? And then, yeah, it just went on from there.
00:24:23
Speaker
It sounds yeah sounds like um they like what they so what they saw then because obviously if it's two weeks, then you're hearing back the next day. And that's I think that's the thing with – I've heard that same thing. Obviously, I'm not in the industry, but it's just from the outside. I'm talking to people. Yeah, it sounds like that's that's a pretty similar story is that it takes a long time for sometimes for people to even yeah even to get a response, if you even get a response for anything back. So that's that's things move pretty quickly for you too. That's great. Awesome.
00:24:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. And because now, because at this point, after, you know, then, you know, obviously you had the full script too. Did you have to send art pages in as well? Is that one of their requirements? Or did they just need to see the script to start?
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah, think... I forgot how many pages. i think it was 10, believe. I would have to look at the website again. It's still up. um But yeah, you would have to send in sample pages just so they could get a feel of what the final book's going to look like. And then actually, when we did have that meeting of talking about making a book deal, i actually said I could make it black and white because I knew it would be faster. yeah And also like I'm terrified of color. I don't know.
00:25:36
Speaker
Like I've always been more confident in drawing black and white when it comes to comics. But Chris was like, no, I think it should all be in color. I'm like, all right, more work for me.
00:25:48
Speaker
But I did like how it turned out. I was going to say that, I mean, everything is is well done with it, but I thought that the colors were so good. I think I'm like, I'm sure that's what, yeah when you when you sent it in, was it in black and white or was it in color?
00:26:02
Speaker
No, it was in color. It was in color. Okay. Okay. yeah And again, story's great too, but i'm I'm assuming like that's probably what grabbed his attention right off the bat
Artistic Influences and Unique Storytelling Approach
00:26:10
Speaker
was just opening. Because like the artist, is I know that's what you are saying.
00:26:13
Speaker
what you feel like you excel in. Obviously, the script is is great as well, but the art is like it's it's your it's definitely um a unique style, and it's just like it just really pops really they well, all like all the pinks and everything. like that's um that's When I first looked at I'm like, yep, that's pretty good. That's pretty unique. and like that first that would like The first few pages, too, when we are at the... i think we're at the park.
00:26:33
Speaker
first couple of pages and I'm not sure what, what got sent in, but, um, but yeah, it was pretty clear right away. Like, Oh, this is, this is unique from an, from an art perspective. Like, do you have any specific like influences? I know like we all in any sort of thing that we do, we probably all learn from other people and take inspiration from others. is there anything that stands out as far as like where you kind of developed your style? Um, any specific artists that you feel like you've taken any inspiration kind of from in your own work?
00:27:01
Speaker
Um, I, I kind of mess around with trying to redraw things I really like seeing. Like, I think you can see the manga inspiration in it, but it's not fully manga because the proportions are kind of funny. um Yeah, I think manga, um what else?
00:27:23
Speaker
I really like Tilly Walden's work. She's very loose with her work and she's just a master at her craft. I love the graphic novel Through the Woods, which is also a very like unconventional way of telling a comic um story, but it's panel-less, um Storytelling. Yeah.
00:27:48
Speaker
yeah And then I watched a lot of Cartoon Network as a kid. So like, Hey, that's, that sounds, that sounds about right. Absolutely. Yeah. Courage to Cowardly Dog. um The Powerpuff Girls. For many years, I did not draw any fingers or toes because I was like, well, the Powerpuff Girls didn't need of them. Why do I need to draw them? So yeah, just a lot of different things. I also like to draw realistically. Um,
00:28:15
Speaker
But I find that it's very meticulous and I don't enjoy it as much as drawing cartoons. So yeah, it's just a mix of different things. I want to get back to your art in a second, but is is it is Cartoon Network no longer a thing?
00:28:28
Speaker
its It hasn't been for a while, has it? I don't know. I'm not sure. That's a good, okay I'm going to have to look that up too because- We're going to have to Google that. I was i was a 90s kid and it just, yeah i yeah, I definitely was into, I probably wasn't into all the same things you were, some of you know some of them, but- Yeah, i definitely. That's where I probably got my start in like anything. is like Yeah, it's cartoons. like i I didn't have a comic book store in the town. that We were small town, and i didn't that we just didn't have one. So it was very much cartoons where I got introduced to like any sort of art or anything like that. it's Yeah, cartoons for sure. i'm like I feel like Cartoon Network no longer exists. You can watch the old shows, but I don't think it's an actual like network anymore. I could be wrong on that. and hopeful I hope they are still a network.
00:29:14
Speaker
i feel like they I feel like they're not, but i don't I don't know that for sure. So when we're done, that's the first thing I'm gonna do is this Cartoon Network exists. Call us. but right Right, exactly. um i was going to ask you too about the, I liked the the blend of like, you know, some pages you have, you have your more traditional panels.
00:29:33
Speaker
And even those don't look traditional, but like, then there are the things that are more loose that are like panelists pages and, and just kind of how like the scene kind of unfolds. And I feel like that's something that we, I mean, yeah, of course we see it, but I feel like in the least of the books that I read, it's not like a.
00:29:49
Speaker
It felt unique, right? And obviously, like, I probably am reading different things than maybe other people that are listening to this at this point. But that felt very, like, interesting to me. And where it just, your eyes are just following. And it's just like, you'd think it would be confusing where it goes, but it just flows very well. Where it just like, your eyes know exactly where to look. And it just kind of, you see the sequence of events without of having to flip more pages. And, you know, so I feel like that worked really well. Was that always something that you...
00:30:15
Speaker
strive for was there any like editing to add more of that in kind of tell me about like the the specific like panelists pages i think it was more just me reading a lot of comics and wishing i could see more of that you know like sometimes i would see a certain cover and think and i would have like a certain expectation of what the interiors would look like like oh this is I think it's going to look like a certain way and then I open it and it's not in that way. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it for my own enjoyment. I would love to see more characters pop out of panels or have more panelists pages. I just, I don't know, my mind's very chaotic.
00:31:03
Speaker
And I think it's also like watching cartoons, you know, when you're watching a cartoon, there's no panels. um It's just frames, but you don't see the frames within the TV while you're watching. And I don't know. I just went with the flow.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah, it it is crazy how, like, again, I mentioned i don't I don't have an artistic bone in my body, too. of just like It all makes perfect sense, but I could sit there for... five years straight and never think that that could even be an option as far as how to structure things. And I, and I read comics and I know that I see it sometimes and it's just like, it just, it doesn't compute with how do you like reverse engineer to make that happen in your own story. So anyway, well done on that. That was really interesting. And I think that, I think I agree. I wish we could see more of that.
Inspiration Behind 'Ghoul's' Setting
00:31:48
Speaker
And cause yeah, it gets to be a lot of just like, there's a panel for lots of comics. Again, that's just traditionally what people have, have done. It's just, it's panel, panel, panel.
00:31:56
Speaker
splash page, more panels. Obviously, those look different. And as far as how many panels per page, stuff like that, too. And I think it also helps, too, with like, I think that's like the worst thing in, again, a lot of American comics or superhero comics, too. I think it's there's times where it's maybe it feels unavoidable, but um like where page breaks are and stuff, too, where if if there's so many panels on a page it's like you feel like you can't really dictate where like yeah they have to think really hard on when i turn the page what do i see and i think with your work um that goes really nicely and it's like everything is feel so feel so like fresh and like oh i didn't i turned the page and then something else is happening where it's not spoiled on its own page basically so um that's like my biggest pet peeve is like i open a page i see what's going to happen before i
00:32:43
Speaker
Oh, Before actually get to that panel, it's just like, well. It's spoiling you already. Right. Spoiling itself. Not that I could do it better because I could not. But I think that's always very much an art on its own to figure out how do we structure things in a way when there's page turns and how do we keep everything a surprise and um and things like that.
00:33:02
Speaker
um i love the I love the setting being in, I'm not sure if it was considered an apartment, condos, whatever it is too. But when there is like, you're all under one roof. Cause I have, I've lived in a few apartments in my day. And while it's not always that same experience, it it does, there is an element of like, you know, I have experienced the the gossipy the neighbors yeah and that all, you know, yeah.
00:33:27
Speaker
I had one person knock on my door at like 11 PM and woke me up and asked me like, Oh, do you think I can PM? I was in bed already. And he asked me, do you think I could, you know, you could give me some money so I could call and get a ride. I'm like, no, your brother lives right across the hall. Like in your, in your mom was the manager in the building next door. Like, I think you have some options here. Like, why are you knocking on my door? They all probably said no. Probably. And I'm like, I don't, what is going on here? um So there's, there's always that, or there's the neighbor that is yes, gossiping about other tenants and stuff. And it's just like, so anyway, that's a very relatable experience. I think for a lot of people where they have been in that situation, maybe not with the same circumstances as in, as in Google.
00:34:07
Speaker
um But there's, I think people can relate to that. Is that you pulling from like personal experience? Like, have you been in that scenario where you've experienced the, the nosy neighbors and that kind of dynamic? Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah, I've always grown up in an apartment or a condo. and um And where I currently live, I do have older neighbors, like the ones in Ghoul, and they do sometimes talk about each other, but not so directly as they do in Ghoul.
00:34:40
Speaker
We don't have that grumpy neighbor that might have killed his family, but... ah I did have a neighbor um that I thought of when I was writing Mr. Cho.
00:34:55
Speaker
He was very, I don't know, he was very mysterious. Like, I never see him leave the apartment very rarely, and then I very rarely see him go back in the apartment. So I guess that's where I got Mr. Cho's influence from.
00:35:13
Speaker
And I think, yeah, I think when I had this conversation in ah kind of in a different way, um I mentioned before we got on air too. I grew up in ah in a small town, so I lived – like, I don't know why yard growing up was like two acres, which isn't huge, but like a lot of people live more remotely. So there there were apartments where I grew up, but it's, you know, you're more lucky to have like a trailer house than an apartment probably where I grew up, where there's just not a lot, you know, now that city is it's getting bigger, more of a tourist town in Minnesota. Um, but at the time i hadn't experienced that.
00:35:41
Speaker
And then I, you know, go to college and then since then, I live in a more a remote part of the country where it's like there are lots of apartments where I live, but I live in a house now. But um but anyway, it's um I was talking to Tony Fleece about that. He had his book Local Man from Image. And that was that really struck a chord as far as like that was set in a small, like a very small town. And it's kind of the same thing, but on a on a different scale as far as like everybody knows each other within the town. And that he said that maybe it was the wrong move because there's
00:36:13
Speaker
people that live in small towns don't have comic shops and maybe it's the wrong audience to kind of cater to. For me, when I had read it, I'm like, oh, that is such a relatable thing because I can, like, I have experienced all of these different things that are about a small town too. And I think the, I think that setting of like the kind of apartment or condo life, I think that even where I live, I've experienced it too. I think so many people across, you know, not just North America, but lots of parts of the world um have had that experience of,
00:36:42
Speaker
things are close quarters and it's just very personal, like where you live and people are as much as, as much as um we're strangers yet, we're we're going to cross paths and people are going to like some of the neighbors, not like some of the neighbors. So I feel like anytime that you can kind of mesh in,
00:36:59
Speaker
a personal experience too that that's pretty helpful to kind of relate to your audience so I did enjoy that part too where I'm like yep I've experienced this and this right here so that part that part's great um another thing I was going to ask you about that i I don't again maybe this has been done but I'm certainly not a historian but I love the idea that you had the soundtrack too I thought that was the most has that been done before and I just don't know it or was that just original idea from you or how like I've never seen that before and maybe I'm just living under a rock but how did that make the how did that kind of thought come into this this process and decide to kind of go with that i feel like i've seen it in the social manga okay i read i don't know if it's necessarily a soundtrack i've seen a lot of like special features at the end where yeah
00:37:46
Speaker
They give little glimpses or something additional to the story. um But yeah, I really wanted to include a mixtape or mix CD. And then I saw a graphic novel that came out last year.
00:38:01
Speaker
I think it's called Please Be My Star. I recommend that. It's really cute. And it also has that panelists pages. I just really think the way how the artist slash writer executed the story was amazing. But she also included a mixtape type thing, or I think it was like a playlist for an iPod.
00:38:27
Speaker
I'm not really sure, but she also had that, which was really cool because I was like, oh, someone else was thinking that too.
Music Playlist as a Storytelling Tool
00:38:34
Speaker
But yeah, I just really wanted to include that um mostly also to establish like, oh, this story takes place in 2006. Okay. yeah i was i And again, there's a lot of songs. I'm like, I really like that song. There's some that I hadn't heard of maybe before. Most of them I have. um I listened to a couple today. I'm like, yep, i I know this song. I just haven't thought about it in years. And so it kind of brought me back a little bit too. Is that... Were you picking songs based, obviously, like you said, that it's back to 2006. Were you thinking about things that like were just songs that, hey, this is what I like, that this still fits the tone? Or were you just searching more of like, okay, I haven't, not one of my favorite songs, but it fits this part of the book so well. How did you kind of decide like what made the cut and what didn't?
00:39:23
Speaker
I have a massive playlist on my Spotify, which has like 300 songs I was listening to as like a preteen slash playlist. teenager. So i sort of like was just playing that in the background while drawing slash writing ghoul.
00:39:41
Speaker
And then there were a couple of songs that stuck out to me like, wait, that could fit this part of the story. So I would just add that to the ghoul playlist. And there were some that I took off because it just didn't feel like it would fit with the other songs. But um yeah, they were all music that I enjoyed listening to.
00:40:00
Speaker
that's It's funny that that was the the route that you went because I was listening to a few songs. i'm like I've been kind of going through like a... not a phase, but i like, oh, I kind of forgot about this, like, you know, more of like the the pop punk genre or whatever you would want to call it too. It's never a phase. i I guess not because I'm listening it. I'm like, okay, I kind of forgot that I kind of like some of these, some of this music too. And I'm like, I just haven't heard it in a year. So it's kind of kind of a coincidence that I've been doing that on my own. And then I looked at the, looked at kind of the list of songs that you put on there. i'm like, a couple of these I've listened to pretty recently, which is kind of surprising for me, but yeah. I thought that was a really unique idea. i I've never seen it done before. um
00:40:39
Speaker
i know there is, I'm trying to think of who did it. Might've been like a Kyle Higgins image book. There's been like, they're starting to do more like podcasts, like episodes with like single issues and stuff too. Like I've heard of that, but never never music though. I thought that was a great idea. um i' I'm surprised it hasn't caught on more.
00:40:59
Speaker
But anyway. Yeah, I feel like a lot of, comic artists must have a playlist, but they just don't include it in the book. Yeah. Yeah. And i I wonder why that is, because that's like, to me, it it brings it like it helps obviously enhance the the story too. But it's I think just like people that will listen to this, I think that and I listen to podcasts and stuff too.
00:41:20
Speaker
like maybe I don't want to know all the secrets of how things are made, but I like, I like to know like kind of the inner workings. Cause I feel like that's sometimes that's as is interesting to me as the actual finished product of, of anything, whether it's comics or whether it's TV or whatever, sometimes like how things work is what gets me. So I think of the thought of, Hey, this enhances the story.
00:41:40
Speaker
But also I think like just to get some more understanding of you and your thought process, I think is pretty interesting for people to probably go back and
Book Release and Audience Reception
00:41:47
Speaker
look at too. Again, maybe I'm the only, only one that thought that, but I feel like that kind of, Makes me think about the process and just sets the tone for what you're hoping to get across to one more way to kind of support. Otherwise, what is strictly just a ah visual kind of medium, too? And that's a cool way to go about it.
00:42:01
Speaker
So with with Google, obviously, this has been kind of years in the making. The book released, was it May 5th, May 6th? One of those dates. Yeah, May 5th. May 5th. Okay. Okay. So it's, you're still in the first month too.
00:42:15
Speaker
And at this point, is it just a big kind of sigh of relief that, Hey, it's done or what are how are you feeling now that the book is out there? People can experience it. Like, what does that feel like now that the book is out? Well, I finished it a year ago and I didn't know the whole publishing business, how it works and from finishing the book to actually like,
00:42:40
Speaker
putting it out in stores. um So I had a year to like sit on it. And then now that it's out, I don't know. I just feel the same. Okay. I don't know. I expected to feel more, like just more. I thought i would be more um it would be more exciting. or I just thought I would feel more accomplished. But if anything, I'm just thinking, oh, what's going to be the next thing?
00:43:11
Speaker
I'm kind of in disbelief that it's out. Honestly, i was gonna say that too. I'm like, I wonder if that's some of it too, that it's, it's, and I think part of it, I think I had this, I don't know who I had this conversation with somebody that came up in one of my episodes, where it's like, there's, there is so much time before, like when things are done, where it's just like, it is such a delayed, like gratification thing, or like, it's not like, maybe the instantaneous part is when people are are looking it over and, you know, things like that. But if It gets into people's hands. It's like, yeah, I've been I've been done with this for so long that I don't even like it just feels like less connected to to me at that point because it's it's been it's been finished while it's new to everybody else. That part is um that part is yeah it comes comes along. um
00:43:52
Speaker
A lot of things happen between when the book is done and when people are actually reading it to have you gotten um some good responses as far as. like people that have picked up the book so far. i know we're very early in the process here
Future Projects and Sequel Possibility
00:44:03
Speaker
too. And one thing about a graphic novel is that it's one of those things that's pretty timeless that people could pick up at any time and still, you know, it's not like a single issue that kind of gets lost in the shuffle, I guess I'm trying to say. So, have but have you gotten some, any feedback at this point from people that have picked it up?
00:44:22
Speaker
Not so much feedback, but more of, I had a book release party at a, comic shop called Challengers in Chicago. yep And I mostly had my friends come over and some old coworkers, which was cool. But there were a few people that I've never met before. And I actually looked at them and I asked, are you here for this? Because I thought they were just there for the comic book shop. They're like, no, we're here to pick up cool.
00:44:50
Speaker
And it was just surprising and amazing to me that they were there to pick up my book. So Yeah, that's gotta be a ah pretty, a pretty cool feeling where it's like, if that's your, your first one and to be able to see your book on the shelves and stuff too. So that's been, that's, I'm sure that's a pretty cool experience. And you mentioned not knowing kind of like, like what's next. Do you obviously without you spoiling anything, do you have any thoughts of what, like what you would like to do next? I hate to be that person that asks like, what's next when you're just like, this is just happening now, but do you have any thoughts on like what you would like to kind of go to next or any inklings anyway?
00:45:25
Speaker
I actually have, I've always had another book I've had in the back of my mind, completely like separate from Ghoul. But after I came out with the book, I actually have ideas for a second book of Ghoul. I just want to revisit the characters more, especially Julian and Lin.
00:45:47
Speaker
I just want to explore more of their relationship. So, yeah, i think that's where the next thing will be at. um And again, without spoiling anything on on my end to like where do things where things end. Yeah, there's a lot of directions that you could you could go with that. Absolutely. So there's.
00:46:06
Speaker
There's a lot there and a lot to be explored with how things ended in and kind of that like you said, their dynamic, too. So that would be very interesting. Are you thinking again, maybe you're not sure yet. Are you thinking if you were to go with a second book and kind of explore those two characters, are you thinking we're going to pick off closer to where we left off or are we going to or is it more likely that we'd have like a time jump or any thoughts that way?
00:46:27
Speaker
I think there's going to be a little bit of a time jump since they're in high school. i want it to be more towards the end of high school. Okay. um But yeah, I've always thought Google would be a standalone. Like every time people ask, oh, when's the next one? What's the next one? I said, there's no next one. It's just Google. That's it. End of story. I just thought it, I made it from beginning to end in a way where I was like, there's nowhere else to go with that. Like it just ended. in a nice, um satisfying way.
00:47:02
Speaker
But think it's just for my own selfish, personal want of revisiting the characters to make a second book.
00:47:12
Speaker
And I think that that's some of the, even if whether it's movies or or comics too, I think some of the best things are created where it's like they're I feel like if, if there's a, there's a sequel in mind, then sometimes that hinders things a little bit almost. So like, I think I like that. I think this was meant to be standalone. And then if there's an avenue to tell another story, i think you left it at a point where nothing's left unsaid, but yet there's, there's obviously opportunities to take it other directions and stuff too. And that's where I think like I would be my preference too. Cause sometimes if I go into something, knowing like this is going to be, um, gosh, I'm trying to think of the name of the movie.
00:47:48
Speaker
It was, gosh, what is what is his name? The guy from Yellowstone, what's his name? the TV show. um Gosh. I don't know. Okay. Okay. Anyway. You're on your own. I'm i'm blanking on his name. I'm not familiar with that. I'm blanking on his name. he's It's a movie?
00:48:05
Speaker
So Yellowstone's a TV show where it's it's like um pretty much about like this like family ranch and they're cowboys and like whatever. So it's like a pretty popular show, but why can i not why can I not think of his name? Anyway, someone's going to listen to this and be like, well, it's this. He's he's a pretty popular They're yelling at the screen right now.
00:48:22
Speaker
yeah that there not that the screen it's a podcast they're yelling in their ear they might be and i can't i'm blanking on his name anyway he came out with a so he did that popular show and i'm trying to think of i can't the of the movie but he was doing another like western movie he was self-funding it and it was going to be like x amount of movies and each one's like three hours long and i think the movie totally flopped not that this would happen to every movie where they're expecting a sequel but I think when people know it's like, oh, it's going to be a part of this major thing that I'm going have to watch three, three full three hour movies to get the whole story. I think that worked against things because it's like then we know right up front, like, oh, this is a bigger commitment. And I don't know if I want to commit to that, not get a complete story. So anyway, I think that's a great thing that you were planning for this to be just one book because you could still read it. It's self-contained and it's not.
00:49:13
Speaker
There's no expectations that I have to be in and every book to be able to read the first one. So I think that actually works out. Again, for my opinion, that works out pretty well where it's not so it's not. We don't want to create large expectations of time commitments. It's already so hard to get people's attention.
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah. So anyway, but so you're looking at that. you have any thoughts on like, again, not trying to have you spoil anything too? Is this something that you've, you've kind of toyed around with? do you have any thoughts on as far as timeline? It's just going to be something that like, obviously it gets done when it gets done. And we just talked about how long the process can take. But do you have any thoughts? is this something that you wouldd like to start working on sooner rather than later? do you are, is the plan to take a break for a year, two years, two months, like any thoughts on that?
Starting New Projects and Balancing Creativity
00:50:00
Speaker
Well, I took a break from when I finished school a year ago. So it's been a year and I think I'm like itching to start another book or a story or whatever. um So I'm like toying it around with it right now.
00:50:17
Speaker
um I'm just writing down the outline, doing some sketches, but I'm not rushing it, um but I do think since I was able to finish school and I've had experience in making a graphic novel, i already know what to expect and what not to do for the next one. So I think it'll be it wouldn't take as long. Yeah, sure.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah, it makes sense after you had you had the first one go around. and Okay, I promise I'll let you go soon. We one more question as far as kind of like process-wise. So this is ah a good time to shift gears a little bit and into one one last area I wanted to ask you about too. So what kind of is your process if you're looking at a different book and...
00:51:02
Speaker
since it is a graphic novel and you are writing the script and also doing the art, how, and obviously you, you you've mentioned that you kind of don't, didn't used to think of yourself as a writer at all. um What is it like for you to put something together? do you have to draw like something first and then make your, make your outline base on that? Or do you strictly start outline first and then do sketches or how does that, like, what is your process? Like, i know everybody has something slightly different that they do, but.
00:51:28
Speaker
I think I just go back and forth between writing and drawing, but before I actually execute the whole drawing out the book, I do want a full script first. I don't know. I know people like to go hand in hand with that when they make their comic, but I think it's just for my own peace of mind.
00:51:51
Speaker
i want an actual final written story first. sure But when I do start off with ideas, I go back and forth with having notes on my notes app on my phone or writing it down, doing some sketches. It's all a bunch of different things and that I just have in piles and I just mush it together and I try to make sense of it all.
00:52:14
Speaker
um And a lot of, like like for with Gould, I didn't have the full book yet or all of the sketches yet But I did make the cover very early on in the process.
00:52:30
Speaker
And I did post it my Instagram like, hey, this is a book cover idea. I don't know if this will be the book cover, but I think it's really cool. And I think that's just a way of inspiring myself to keep going um just so there's an image there of an end goal.
00:52:48
Speaker
Sure. And I've, I've heard that like, even if there's, if there's a team, if there's a writer and an artist, some people, some writers will like, I have to draw it too. Like, even if it's just rough sketches, just to be able to see it. So that makes a lot of sense to go back and forth. I figured that you'd wait till you had a full script to do, you know do like your actual pages and stuff. But, um, I've heard that a lot where people like, I have to be able to see it also. Not everyone's like that, but, um, that comes up quite a bit. And even for people that.
00:53:15
Speaker
say that they they can't draw at all. Like I still have to, even if it's my stick figures, like I have to do something so I can kind of see how this is actually
Where to Find Casey's Work
00:53:21
Speaker
going look. So I thought that was interesting, but um well, Casey, you've been very generous with your time. I want to let you, let you get going on here in a second, but um before I end things, I wanted to ask you, where can people pick up the book?
00:53:32
Speaker
Where can they find more information about you or your social media, things like that? Feel free to plug any of, any of that stuff too. Yeah, so you can pick up Google um wherever books are sold. You can search it up on Penguin Random House website.
00:53:49
Speaker
It has a bunch of links of where it could be bought from. um Some local bookstores might have it I really recommend um going up to your local bookstore seller and asking for GUL. They could always order it for you. I really like supporting local shops um and also like libraries. I've seen a bunch of libraries. They also have GUL. So the economy is very ah iy right now. So I encourage you guys to just pick it up from the library too.
00:54:26
Speaker
um And you can find me mostly on Instagram. I have other social media platforms, but I'm mostly present on Instagram.
00:54:38
Speaker
Okay, perfect. Perfect. Well, again, thank you, Casey, so much for taking the time. And we'll have to have you. Absolutely. We'll have to have you back on again, whenever you want to open an invitation. If there's anything that you want to talk about, I'd be happy to have you back on at at at any point. So thanks again.
00:54:53
Speaker
Yeah, thank you.