Transcript
Nate: Andre, thank you for joining us on A to Z jobs. Would you want to tell us a bit about yourself? What's your career and and how'd you get started?
andre: Hey, Nate. Yeah, it's pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. um So I'm an airline pilot in Hong Kong. um My path is quite typical. I grew up in an aviation household. So my family worked in aviation. um That gave me exposure to the industry and opportunities to go quite deep into the sector quite early in early in my age, I mean, early in my developmental stages. So I was able to know the nuts and crannies, if you may, of the industry.
andre: um So at that age, I got really interested, but never thought it was a possibility. um When I left overseas, that's when I started exploring aviation and here I am now.
andre: um Another reason why I think aviation meant something special ah to me is because oftentimes um You see these airlines and deliveries, they're actually quite connected with the local culture from where you come from. So there's a sense of purpose in what you do when you do work in this type of field. you know That answers your question. well
Nate: So the passion, you know, you mentioned, you know, you grew up surrounded by by the industry. Was there any particular moment that you remember thinking, yeah, I think I'll i'll follow in the footsteps, this is this is where I should be? Or it was just just a ah natural feeling for you, this is it felt right?
andre: Yeah, um it's a mix. ah Two parts. ah For one, it felt right. um When I started flying in small a aircraft, um you know, almost every pilot will echo back to the time when they did their first takeoff and landing.
andre: you you For me, I wasn't really sure. if I liked, if I, if flying was for me up to that stage, um at first, you know, the first 10 lessons you're flying with an instructor, just doing takeoff and landings. And you're like, is is this really for me? They seem to be correcting a lot of things. And then finally accumulates in that one flight where you do your own takeoff and landings and you're like, all right, this feels about right. You know, the aircraft just kind of flies off the runway because of that, of a lighter weight and et cetera. So, you know,
andre: Um, the second part of it, I would say is, um, before joining the industry as a pilot, um, I didn't want to explore if aviation as a sector was something for me.
andre: um thankfully in the U S there's plenty of opportunity to join aviation in that capacity. Um, so in college, I worked part-time as a ticketing agent for Alaska airlines.
andre: Um, And subsequently i was quite lucky. um I had a little phase, a career break from what i used to be doing. We'll talk about that later, I guess. I used to be in medicine.
andre: ah ah used to be doing and I decided to try flying and I became a flight attendant for Delta. um Don't know how, but somehow managed ah for about three years.
andre: um And those moments that you see, i think moments of humanity, if you may call it, were the things that really inspired me to continue down this journey.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: um I think aviation is something fundamental to what we do in the human experience, if you may. It is fun. It is just connection. It is ambulance.
Nate: yeah
andre: It is being able to go somewhere, move. if you may. um So it's fundamental to what we do and how we experience this world. and It's fundamental to how other people experience this world. um And so that's why I'm here.
Nate: Fantastic. So obviously a very global career. So you mentioned, so we're currently in Hong Kong, you're based in Hong Kong at the moment, but you grew up in the US s and studied there. what What was your journey with with locations?
andre: Yeah, so... um Uh, that tracks quite far back. And so I started most, I did most of my education in Hong Kong. Um, you know, when, um, and when I was 10, the region went through a stage of, uh, educational reform and, uh, my family decided that they didn't want to take that risk. And so they sent me to the U S to continue my education. And that that's where I stayed for the next 20 years.
andre: of my life. um So, you know, um that on its own brings a host of its own challenges that we can talk about next time. But ah um yeah, after 10, after about 20 years in the US, there was a lot of opportunity, ah obviously in the US to explore different career fields um beyond what my professional training was in.
andre: um and Eventually it led me to, especially with the abundance of general aviation in the U S the same goes for Australia or France. And, you know, you get, you get these little airports here and there, ah in Hong Kong, unfortunately there's two, um, there's Hong Kong airport and there's that military airport up north.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah.
andre: So, um, there's really no Cessnas, Pipers, diamonds, or any of those tiny little planes flying around. It's really very exclusive. So i was very fortunate to be in an area where aviation didn't feel as alien.
andre: Um, it fell a lot more, it fell a lot closer. Um, and that led to that opportunity to start exploring flying. Um, but I think most importantly is.
andre: The opportunities of a, uh, in the U S extends beyond just, you know, the community of flying, but also job opportunities. So being able to join an airline in an early stage and actually.
andre: physically talk to the pilots, understand their perspective and their journeys and how they got to where they are made a larger difference than let's say in Hong Kong, where it's really hard to, ah for one, speak to a pilot and for two, um speak to them at that level or that depth.
andre: It makes sense. They're usually in a rush.
Nate: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
andre: ah Yes.
Nate: yeah And you mentioned, um so training then, so training and education. Talk to me about the journey of um of your education.
andre: All right. Um, think the journey of the journey of my education, um really for flying started in the U S um, you know, um, Hong Kong obviously is a system that doesn't really follow the FAA.
andre: I'm not saying they don't reference the FAA, but, um, there's a slight preference for Australian licensing, um, or at least European licensing here, uh, for the local agencies, um,
Nate: Yeah.
andre: followed the American version. um So my training really started with a discovery flight. So, you know, you you had that nice talk about, the romantic side of flying, how it feels to your own takeoff and landings, ah the lifestyle, you got the you got the nuts and crannies of how this industry works in the US.
Nate: yeah
andre: um And you're like, all right, let's let's give it a try. um And there's something called discovery flights where you, it's usually at a discounted f rate. You go up, you go flying with an instructor. They give you quite the detailed breakthrough of what's going to happen on the flight. um They show you, they kind of walk you through everything.
andre: You do, you do, you, they take off, you guys go fly. You might get the controls for a little bit just to, Gently steer the aircraft left and right, maybe do a climb and et cetera. I get a feel for how it, you know, how, how an aircraft flies and see if this is actually for you.
andre: You know, I think one of the unique things about this job is it's, it's not about the books anymore. You obviously need to know the books, but being able to translate it into some form of kinetic output and action matters a lot.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: You you can't just know, oh an aircraft stalls. You need to know how to stall it and recover from it.
Nate: yeah
andre: Otherwise the knowledge won't do you any good. um So after that discovery flight, the U S offers two paths. There's a formal path and a less formal path. um I went with the less formal path because I wanted to accommodate and balance what I had going on in my own life alongside flying. So I went with part 61 option, which basically It's still a valid training option, but it's not as rigid and there isn't necessarily a stringent curriculum that required approval from the government.
andre: You still get your license at the end of the day, but it might take a little bit longer given the flexibility.
Nate: Okay. Hmm.
andre: a part 141 program is structured more like a university yeah associates or bachelor's program um where you follow a standard syllabus.
andre: There are standard checks to ensure the execution of the syllabus and your mastery of the subject, but you are guaranteed to graduate quicker if you may, and perhaps land a job earlier and in the field.
andre: um But in a nutshell, it took me about, I would say three to four years to garner my commercial multi-engine license under the FAA. And just when we just when i wrapped it up,
andre: was when COVID was starting to sunset and industries are starting to open again. So timing was great.
Nate: Mm-hmm.
andre: I applied to an airline in Hong Kong and I was very fortunate to receive to received a job offer. um Unfortunately, it did require me to go through training again, except under the Australian licensing system.
andre: um so That's where I was able to jump from that. That was where I got exposed to additional training just under a different governing reference frame, which is the Australian CASA. If you may see ASA, I believe is what people call it typically. Um, and that took another give or take.
andre: one and a half to two years, um, with the airline, um, that that's under their cadet program. So any, that's the education path with regards to flying that I took.
Nate: Okay.
Nate: So is that in, so, um so there's two options. You've got your intensive university path, then there's the more casual option, which lets you balance other commitments and, um you know, life.
Nate: So how, how many hours a week were you flying per month or week to get, to get your license?
andre: Yeah. So, um, that varies. Um, the average, I would say per week ranged around, it could be anywhere between 10 to 40 hours per week, honestly.
Nate: At all.
andre: Um, it depends on what stage of the training I'm at. Um, so obviously with flying, um, It is knowledge intensive subject. You need to know what you're doing before you actually go do it. You know you don't really get that many chances to to screw up in the air.
andre: ideally hope you don't screw up in the air, but, um, yeah.
Nate: ad
andre: Um, so there is, uh, the curriculums are usually designed with the ground school phase where you, you're given instruction on the fundamentals, the physics, the mathematics, um, the science behind flying, you know, the expectations, um, you're given opportunities to try the techniques in a controlled environment, either that being what we call a, um, um,
Nate: Mm-hmm.
andre: A training device, um, could be a simulator. It could be just a piece of paper that pretends to be a flight deck. It could be just chair flying where you sit in a chair and you do the motions of flying. Um, trust, trust us pilots will not, are not schizophrenia schizophrenics. We, we, we are actually trying to achieve something when we do that in the chair.
andre: Um, it looks funny, but it is commonly practiced.
Nate: It'll work.
andre: yeah it It works to some degree.
Nate: yeah
andre: if you're able to picturize it, which is another topic. um But yes, um so usually at those times where the book ah academics tend to be heavier, the flying ah takes a little bit of ah of a back burner. So maybe you'll do 10 hours when you're going through that.
andre: Now, when you're starting to work on your skills and working your way up to what we call a a check flight, um, or a lot of was not a line check, a check flight, or, I forgot how we called in the U S it's been a while, but at least the, oh, stage check or et cetera. Anyway, you're being examined, um, to get either your license or to continue your license. Um, you, you, you fly more, you know, practice makes perfect.
andre: um Subsequently, once you've earned your license to progress to the next level or the next stage, there are minimum experience requirements. um So that might require you to just take a take the plane out to go fly and build some experience with handling the aircraft, with um talking to different traffic controllers, how to navigate between traffic controller regions.
andre: Uh, handling weather in real time, you know, gaining the actual flying experience that does take time. So that's why the range can go from 10 to 40. Um, with S with airline orientated programs, like the cadet program that I subsequently joined, um, the flying can.
andre: be even more intense because now there is a timeline requirement that they obviously the airline wants from the training agency. So they will try to push you through.
andre: um the flying can range from 40 to 50 hours per week. So it can get pretty intense quite quick.
Nate: her way And I'm fascinated to know, like, because ah obviously flying could just be a hobby, right?
andre: Yeah. All
Nate: It doesn't have to be a career if you enjoy flying, but at what point did you decide that sort of being commercial pilot was the direction for you?
andre: right.
andre: Yeah. So, um, for me, I consider it almost just as, uh, or as a vertical move up if you may. So, you know, I I've tried ticketing, um, just to see if I like the culture and the atmosphere of working in an airline.
andre: Um, obviously all that gives me is the perspective of the organization. It doesn't really give me the perspective of the culture of the pilot group per se.
andre: Um, so. For me, a natural progression was to, all right, let me get a little bit closer to the flight deck to see if i actually like it. And that was becoming a flight attendant. So at each stage was a little bit of a vertical move up.
andre: Eventually, I came to a stage where, all right, um, Obviously this is not a light decision by any, by any means. It is quite the financial investment to get your licenses and you get your training um and to convince people to, to think this is acceptable, especially coming from an Asian household where flying is not a traditional career path for most folks to, to explore.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah.
Nate: yeah
andre: um So they obviously you have to convince yourself before you can convince others. So, you know, a lot of just trial and error and feeling out the industry to say, all right, this seems right for me vertically as I progressively move up.
Nate: yeah
andre: And, you know, throughout the flying training, I think there will come stages where you will also ask yourself the same question. Is this worthwhile? You know, as you're in a noisy, rusty Cessna box from 1980 something, you know, trusting that it's engine will run flying over pitch black, flying over the pitch black ocean of Santa Barbara. I would say that, that, that kind of sends something down your mind. Like, huh? I wonder if this is actually worth it.
andre: Am I getting anywhere? You know?
Nate: Yeah.
andre: Yeah. So I think you have to be quite clear with what you want to do, but yeah.
Nate: Yeah, good, I like that. So it was it was more let's but's start from from the ground up, get in the industry first, get a taste of the industry, the people working in it and then keep pushing and challenging yourself and make sure it's it's it's where you want to be.
andre: ah Yeah, I would say it's just gradually expanding your comfort zone and seeing at each stage if it still fits your your, if it's still your cup of tea, frankly. So, you know, like, I don't think it's any different from most professional careers, you know, like doctors in Hong Kong, they probably start working, you know, they probably start the exposure with the Red Cross, uh, via volunteering for the Red Cross. So volunteering at their, you know, their, um,
andre: their community clinic or et cetera, getting a feel of the industry, working with the nurses and the doctors and et cetera. And then they say, all right, this might be for me. um Progressively move into university and try start their academic training. And there will be a lot of obstacles and questions along the way and self-doubt and et cetera, but perseverance hopefully it ultimately leads, shines through and you end up where you are. And I think that that pathway is somewhat similar.
andre: um
Nate: yeah
andre: yeah just having clear vision um and constant self-assurance is important.
Nate: So what's the best part? So now that you're a commercial pilot, what's the best part of the career?
andre: All right. um Needless to say, obviously, um the views. um I remember my my my primary school teachers tell me no one's going to pay you to look at a window. Well, joke's on you, man.
andre: um Yeah, obviously the views are quite breathtaking.
Nate: Yeah. and
andre: um You get to see things that... You get to have a perspective of the world that most people don't really get to see. You know you read about St. Elmo's Fire and you don't really realize how bizarre it looks until you actually see St. Elmo's Fire in real life.
andre: Or you you see people take photos of the aurora. and and Once you're able to see auroras, that... 35,000 feet, it is quite breathtaking. Or being able to fly over and this over Siberia or rural Russia, rural China, and being able to see, you know, Everest from the plane without having go through that daunting hike. You know, these are things that you take with you, obviously, from an experience standpoint, you know, being able to travel different countries that and being paid to do it and, you know, being able to experience different cultures, different countries, you know, one day I'm in Frankfurt, the next day I'm in Sydney.
andre: So, you know, it's, it's quite, it's quite the experience. I don't think a lot of jobs offer that. um
Nate: Yeah.
andre: And the most important thing is you take, you kind of take the job with you, but once you land, it is your time. um You can choose what you want to do with it. So, you know, it's not like most jobs where you go home and there's more paperwork.
andre: There's, there is studying that you have to do.
Nate: yeah
andre: You have to keep up with professional education and et cetera, and enrichment. Um, but I would say relative to other job, relative to other professions, um, you don't go home with an Excel sheet.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: So, um, another thing I would say is. your feeling of connection with the larger purpose, you know, oftentimes aviation, you're not just, you're not just doing it for the sake of flying per se, but usually your job's connected with something else, you know, for example, yeah oftentimes this is something i think we forget about is the people that we transport, um,
andre: It's not just about getting from A to B. You know, for us, it's just getting from A to B when we punch in the numbers on the computer.
andre: We don't want the computer to lead us in the wrong direction. But for other people, it could be, It could be, you know, their honeymoon.
andre: It could be their first flight of since birth. It could be, you know, them going to visit a mother they haven't seen since, you know, since, you know, back when Vietnam was in war or something.
andre: Or it could even be, you know, someone's very last flight. I've had people and I think that was a defining moment for me that I knew flying was for me, um was a flight from L.A. to Honolulu.
andre: ah honolulu And ah upon de-planing, there was a passenger that took extra long, just staring at the sunset, going down the jet bridge. And I was like, you know, i was like, wow, um, they really love this plane.
andre: You know, we've been on it for six hours.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: You just don't want to leave. Do you, um, turns out, um, that person was going through their final stages of life.
Nate: Wow.
andre: Um, they were returning to Honolulu, um, after a terminal diagnosis of cancer. Um, to spend some of the remaining time with family and where they echoed with, you know, and there aren't many jobs where you have that, you feel that since like, all right, well, you're able to be part of that experience.
Nate: yeah wow
Nate: Hmm. Hmm.
andre: Um, so I would say that leads me to the final point of what I think is best about this job. Um, really the people, um,
andre: Flying is never, yes, or I should say flying is always a team effort. You know, the we as pilots, we're just very fortunate to be in a position where we can do the physical execution of the flying, but there's a lot that happens behind the scenes. There are, you know, air traffic controllers and and that help ensure efficiency of the system.
andre: There are an incident control center personnel who, who basically look over us while we fly over places that we are uncertain about, like, especially when nowadays we fly close to Russia or over the Middle East, those are areas where, you know, company support does come in quite, quite handy.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: Um, Yeah, you get to work with cabin crew, obviously they, they play a large part in the brand, not just the brand, but bringing the human aspect back into the entire operation where we're focused on the safety and the, and the dials and numbers they're focused on obviously safety, but also, you know, the comfort, the, you know, the humanity in the cabin, maintaining discipline and et cetera, a lot of soft skills, which is quite difficult actually.
Nate: yeah
andre: Um, And most importantly, the passengers, you never know who you will meet, you know, like, like I just talked about. So, or even on your layovers, sometimes you read them, you meet the most interesting people ah and you, you kind of wonder, it expands your view about what we are as a species and how the the rest of the world operates, especially in places like Milan.
Nate: Breath all.
andre: um So, you know, stuff like this, I think makes the job worthwhile. Yeah.
Nate: but Lots of positives there, lots of really strong positives. But what about the challenges? What's something negative or the the hardest part of of the career?
andre: Yeah. um So I would say three parts would be the hardest. now It really drops down into three categories. I would say it's physical, personal, and um external, if you may, or economical.
Nate: Hmm.
andre: So obviously, a physical, health, um is oftentimes a challenge for pilots for couple of reasons. um For one, it also depends on what type of operation you fly. So if you fly more international operations, time zone differences and constantly having to adjust to different time zones is a challenge. Your circadian rhythm will be disrupted. um You know, I tend to have trouble falling asleep or have trouble maintaining
andre: sleep for long periods of time versus when I was not saying I'm unable to, but relative to when I was young, it was a lot easier. um um For two, ah when I used to do domestic flights with Delta, um the challenge really just came from repetitive, repetitive, I mean, repetitive actions.
andre: So, you know, the flow of setting up an aircraft
Nate: Yeah. Yeah.
andre: um, before flight, the flow of executing your job functions, it really is just a repeat of what you just did before, just with different people and different passengers, probably.
Nate: yeah
andre: Um, so that could get old quite quick. Um, l um, it could get to a point where it feels very repetitive and fatigue does set in at some point with the long hours fatigue will probably set in.
Nate: yeah
andre: ah so yeah, obviously health, um, The other thing I would say is from traveling and you're always in the flight deck sitting, um exercise opportunities are quite valuable.
andre: ah Opportunities to move are quite valuable.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah.
andre: So, you know, I try to stay active on my days off where I do, you know, my jogs, I do CrossFit. I try different ways to ensure that I stick to some form of physical activity that and I'm held accountable for.
andre: So CrossFit is phenomenally expensive in Hong Kong. So that encourages me to keep going. Otherwise I'm wasting money.
Nate: yeah
andre: um And jogging, I keep going because my partner nags me and says, you're getting chubby, go do your jogging.
Nate: Oh.
andre: um So, you know, that at least ensures that I'm moving. But I would say health. is a common topic amongst pilots where we say, oh, so what do you try to do to stay, you know, to stay in shape and et cetera.
andre: Obviously you don't want to get too ballooned, um, for many reasons, but yeah. Um, for personal, I would say for the, from the personal perspective, I think, you know, you have, you have to spend a lot of time away from family, and and a lot of personal commitments. So the job does come first in a lot of ways, you know you're a professional pilot, you're expected to act professionally to uphold certain ethics.
andre: So when duty calls, you have to respond to some degree, obviously after personal assessment, and are you fit to fly and et cetera. Um, but you know, you will miss, um,
andre: Thanksgiving, you will miss probably Christmas, you know, you might probably miss New Year's, a lot of the festivals, you might have to miss someone's wedding, because you you can't get the day off, you might be off somewhere, you might be stuck in some other location.
Nate: Thank you.
andre: um There will be a lot of things that you'll miss. um I know from a fact that when my mother flew, she missed ah many my birthdays and for her that was a large regret ah from the job where she missed a lot of moments that mattered to me.
andre: um Now that I'm in the position of flying, I can see that, you know, and there's not much you can do.
Nate: yeah
andre: yeahre you You're physically stuck overseas or somewhere else or in a simulator pressing buttons in a moving box for six hours. So there's not much you can do. And you will spend quite a bit of time away I should put it this way.
andre: You will have to prioritize your professional commitments over personal. And it's not like something where you can rush it and head home to try to make the most of it.
Nate: i
andre: You are physically overseas in most times, you know, so and finally, i would say, that deposition to external factors, economics and et cetera, as aviation is so ubiquitous, that also is its weakness where it's affected by many, um, aspects in society, um, social movements, economic downturns, political adjustments or fluctuations in the political landscape. All of this does affect aviation.
andre: Um, Least to be said COVID-19 and we can see the impact it has had on aviation and multiple sectors.
Nate: Oh.
andre: Um, when we had, uh, social activity in Hong Kong, the airport was shut down for a period. So that obviously affected, you know, the amount of hours that you will have that month as a pilot.
andre: Um, political, political landscapes is most of. Most of flying and most commercial routes that we operate are actually agreements between governments um to open that airspace for us to fly.
Nate: Thank you.
andre: So when an airspace does close or agreements do fall through, um that does take a toll on the industry where we might have to reconfigure and reconsider if that flight is still economical as a business.
andre: Um, but more importantly, as a pilot, if that route is still safe to operate and what we, what we, what do we need to fly those routes? You know, especially nowadays, like for example, uh, flights to Europe from Hong Kong, we have to operate over an area of GPS, um, disruption where we will lose GPS navigation and.
andre: um There are certain aircraft that can't fly in that area because of equipment requirements. It's not properly equipped to fly without GPS per se.
Nate: That's well, yeah.
andre: So there are limitations. Or political agreements that will require us to circumnavigate certain airspaces like the Ukraine airspace. And when the Middle East or Israel was at war, we had to circumnavigate those airspaces that forces a lot of aircraft to fly through the same corridor and increases the operational risk.
Nate: well yeah So many moving parts to the industry. It really is just fascinating. you don't As you in general public, you don't really stop to think about a lot of the these aspects that go into to planning your trip. It might be a quick holiday for you, like for for the general public, but for on the back end, considering all that safety and getting everything aligned um for that flight, it's just unbelievable how much goes into it.
andre: and Yeah, know one of the things I think a lot of people don't realize is as pilots, obviously, you know, we we train to be prepared for the worst. We're not there just to sip coffee, obviously.
andre: um So at every part of the flight, we are considering in the worst case scenario, where can we divert to? And that's not discussed a lot, but we we do take into consideration political aspects that are ongoing at the time.
andre: you know For example, if i were to be flying um if I were to be flying to India, knowing that there's probably a lot of Indian nationals on my aircraft,
andre: I might not divert to Bangladesh um just because it's a, it's, it was a warring country at the time. I'm not sure that if it still is, but you do keep that of the back of your mind. So these do affect your decisions.
Nate: well So if someone's listening now and they want to be a pilot, ah what's the quickest way? Is there a really quick, efficient way to do this or your recommendation really is just sort of get in the industry and and feel we feel your way through it a bit more?
andre: Yeah, so um I would say the industry really is a volatile one. um Like I said, it's very ubiquitous. So when a window of opportunity that does open for one to join the airline, I think there is no better time.
andre: um Once you miss that window, you really don't know when that window will open again.
Nate: Hmm.
andre: Probably with the next economical cycle, I was just very lucky to be able to be on the on the trailing end of COVID-19 as industries were desperately trying to recapture markets. So there's a lot of growth.
andre: um There is still growth nowadays, um just not as exponential. But like I said, that kind of is a testament to the the cyclic nature of just the job market, right?
andre: um For someone who intends to join the industry, I would recommend just, there's no really, I would recommend against, obviously it's your choice.
andre: I took my route um of just balancing things and testing out the waters, but if you are really certain enough, there are more economical and direct options.
Nate: Hmm. Hmm.
andre: One of them would be airline cadetship programs. You know, those are great. They offer you training. They offer you an insight into the airline. It's usually structured.
andre: um And most importantly, at the end of the line, you're guaranteed ah position that will immediately pay dividends to your training and your investments. So it minimizes the risk if you may, and provides you a very clear pathway as to what you want to achieve.
andre: Obviously there are some downsides to that. um Usually those programs come with some sort of bond and agreement between you and the carrier. So you will have to work for them for a duration.
andre: Um, the airline will essentially own you for a period of time. um The second thing is it could be quite stringent. um So it is an airline, the business has to be profitable.
andre: So if you can't prove to them from your performance that you will be an asset to the operation, um there is a chance that you will be cut from the program because they can't see and they would rather limit their losses than have you continue. So there's that back of your mind, right?
andre: Obviously there'll be many resources there to support you, but at that stage, it's somewhat adult learning. So you have to be able to know what you want to some degree, you know, you won't necessarily be spoon fed.
andre: And now, The second type that's usually recommended would be university or formal education programs, like those that are offered from, you know, University of North South Wales, UNSW, Embry-Riddle or University of North north Dakota, Purdue and et cetera. These universities that have um aviation programs and bachelors of aviation, bachelors of flying and et cetera.
andre: Um, again, very structured, they provide very, very robust and vast coverage of the theory that you need, usually accompanied by some level of, um, high level in understanding of airline operations, um, airline economics, um, crew resource management, or the psychology of flying and et cetera, in the background.
andre: So you get a very wide view of aviation with an emphasis of flying.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: And usually those do accumulate with either some guaranteed interview at the end of the program where the university but in partnership with some other airline or partnership with some group will um try to facilitate a job at the very end of the of that road.
andre: right But most importantly, I think from these programs is the networking that you're able to gain. um you you know Usually these programs, have alumni that work already with these carriers.
andre: And oftentimes they either come back and they network or um they offer you a channel on inside of you to actually understand the airline and subsequently maybe a letter letter recommendation and stuff.
andre: So, you know, obviously great places to be.
Nate: Oh, Yeah.
andre: um Military flying for people who that might be an option for would be great for one, you're not taking any, you're usually aren't taking up any loans. You know, the military plays for your training, you pay it back through service, usually longer commitments versus cadet programs.
andre: You know, I think in the U S the minimum commitment is 10 years once you join the program.
Nate: ah wow
andre: So, but subsequently usually the, the employment opportunities at the end of the road is plentiful. Um, people usually like to hire a military pilots because they have, they have had the opportunity to test.
andre: aerodynamics to the very peak and the very frontier of what planes are designed to be able to do versus, you know, ah Boeing triple seven goes like this for most of the time they do all sorts of stuff.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: So, you know, i don't get that privilege of being able to pull G's and do loops and, you know, all those types of stuff, and you know, I go straight level. So Obviously that's a big goal. At the same time, the military does offer quite a bit of resources, support and different facets of training.
andre: Most importantly, leadership training. That's something that's quite understated, I think nowadays. As much as this is a repetitive job, it is somewhat of a management leadership position where you're overseeing the aircraft's operation. So um last but not least, I cannot emphasize more.
andre: Being good at English is very important.
Nate: Yeah. Hmm.
andre: um It is not an option, unfortunately, to be good at English. You have to be able to communicate fluently. You have to be able to understand syntax and sentence composition and being able to properly express yourself and communicate with the other person. Like I said, flying is about people.
andre: It's about talking. So you have to be able to communicate your ideas and what you want to do your intentions clearly.
Nate: yeah
andre: and more importantly, in most times, this is not in person, this is over radio or over text. So being able to communicate communicate that properly and clearly is quite important.
andre: You know, we we do want you to be precise. We want you to be clear.
Nate: And confident as well, i would imagine, yeah.
andre: ah Confident, yes, confident as well. And most times um there are professional requirements that will be assessed by professional bodies, you IKO is a common one used in Hong Kong, for which if you score lower than a certain level, it is not, um it is not a matter of the rest of the portfolio, um holistically speaking, unfortunately, that is a give that is a
Nate: That's the deal breaker. Hmm.
andre: Yeah, that is the deal breaker. It is a physical threshold for which if you don't meet a certain requirement, you will not be even considered. um So yes, unfortunately, we do meet a lot of very, very capable individuals in other aspects of flying. You know, they can have the leadership skills, they can have the grit, the perseverance.
andre: It's just the English is lacking. um Or they just have an overly thick accent and you just can't understand them. And unfortunately, these are the deal breakers. Yeah.
Nate: Yeah. I'm mindful of the time, but I just want to quickly throw another question in at at you.
andre: Yes. Sorry.
Nate: Can you give it like a brief, just a a quick overview of what the recruitment process was like for you? Was it like three stages of recruitment or how did that look for you?
andre: Yeah. So um obviously we're flying. You have a lot of responsibilities um on the aircraft. Once the plane takes off, or actually once the door closes, um it is the pilot is in charge of the plane.
andre: Um, once the door closed now, once you're in the air, even much more so, because you're now in your domain, you're the expert of how this thing works at that point, moving forward, not even air traffic control, not even the company you are the expert.
andre: Um, with that much responsibility, there's quite a bit of psychometric screening that does occur. They do want to know who you are, how you think, how you take in, are there any ticking time bombs that you have harbored in you that we haven't addressed yet.
andre: You know, so that does happen. um Secondly, again, we turn back to the same point. People, um they want to see how you work with other people. You know, are you very dominant? ah Do you tend to have a commander type of a leadership style? Or do you tend to have a balance between leadership and followership?
andre: Are you able to accept feedback? how do you take How do you take criticism? How do you take failure? How how do you tend to digest?
andre: um And how do you how do you tend to improve? These are things that they want to see. ah But at the same time, interviews um that happen after that do try to dig for your understanding of the industry. So do you keep up with times?
andre: Do you keep up with the ongoing affairs that's affecting the industry? What are the megatrends that are occurring um in the sector? you know are there any ongoing deals between carriers? Are there any ongoing agreements? What are the growth opportunities?
andre: These are some things they may want to know. But what about the ethical landscape of corporate business? You know, DEI is, it was a big topic when I joined and I had some experience in it.
Nate: me. Okay.
andre: So that was something they wanted to know. How do you feel working with a female pilot? How do you feel working with people who might not agree with your viewpoints or who might live a lifestyle that might not mirror yours, you know, stuff like that.
andre: You know, you will be locked in a tube flying at 35,000 feet for multiple hours. That's, that's important to know. Um, and finally they they want you to know that at least they would try to assess your understanding of the operation, you know, ranging from what aircraft do they fly?
andre: do you understand to some degree, um the systems appropriated to your level of education, they would want to know how much do you know about flying and how much do you know about flying what you're going to try to fly.
Nate: and so
andre: Um, at your airline. So for example, for me, i got questions ranging from the basics of aerodynamics to the exact decimal performance of a Boeing triple seven aircraft.
andre: Now you're not expected to know how to answer that, but then from that tricky question, what they're really trying to see is how you handle not knowing something. Will you try to just force your way to an answer?
Nate: Yeah.
andre: Or you will accept some degree of humility and make take that as a learning experience.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: We don't want pilots to fake knowing something in that type of environment, obviously. That's a big red flag. If you don't know it, say it.
Nate: ah yeah yeah
andre: There's usually help. Versus the other way, how are you going to take that feedback? you know So again, very cyclic.
Nate: yeah
andre: Um, I think people underestimate the human aspect of the interview over the technical aspect, but obviously you need technical knowledge. More importantly, this is a human job. You'll be working a lot of people. So being able to balance that and your specialty is important in these interviews.
Nate: Oh, yeah. So what about tools and resources? Is there particular resources that you would recommend people check out?
andre: Yeah. Um, Nowadays, especially, you know, with, with technology and stuff, there's a lot of resources available, but I also can't emphasize enough the classic means of networking. Right.
andre: So with technology, you have YouTube.
Nate: Hmm.
andre: Now I sound really old, but yes, YouTube is a valid resource. Um, you have plenty of YouTubers, um, pilots, uh, aviation enthusiasts and, and, you know, um, air air safety investigators making videos on YouTube that provide valuable insights into how pilots think, how airlines operate, how an aircraft works and et cetera.
andre: um You can even actually do most of your ground school studying. And at least that's what I did. is I had trouble picturizing certain things from the books. So YouTube actually does offer quite a bit of resource for you to use on the side to supplement your your journey.
andre: You need to either to supplement your motivation or to supplement your, your understanding of flying and the operation, right. Um, there are apps that you have on your phone or from the app store that you can use. And, you know, if you just as an, as, um, as an enthusiast, there's flight radar, there are things that you can use to look at aircraft.
andre: Um, there are apps that will allow you to act, but to interact with the synoptics of an aircraft in real time to see how a fuel system works. There are apps that you can practice how to enter data into an aircraft computer.
Nate: Oh,
andre: So all of that's available on the app.
Nate: okay
andre: And usually they're either for free or just a little bit of a charge, but they are usually free options. And finally, there's obviously flight sim games, if you may, or flight sim programs that you can use.
andre: um They have come a long way since when they were developed and they do a pretty good damn job at mimicking an actual operation, operational aircraft from the aerodynamics to how it's set up.
andre: Just that it doesn't give you the frame wrap of an airline, but it will give you the panel. It will give you the systems and et cetera. So those are good places to start exploring, I would say.
andre: Um, from a classical standpoint, obviously community engagement. So there are opportunities, at least for me, I was with AOPA in the U S and I, I was pretty involved with budget negotiations and community and community relations at my local airport, understanding what makes an airport tick, um, how aircraft or operational policies from an airport and an aircraft affect the local communities.
andre: Um, it gives you a different perspective, uh, with regards to flying. And it also gives you that confidence to present yourself to government agencies and to members of the community and et cetera, which later on does come pretty handy, believe it or not, uh, when working with other people and like passengers and et cetera, but more importantly, airports are usually where you find pilots and they also happen to be the mentors.
andre: Or people can give you pointers as to what you need to do in life, you know, to get to where you want to be or from their experience.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah.
andre: So coaches are always a good resource, mentors, people who know the way, who at least, you know, as you're trying to track your way along your map, can give you some degree of a compass to reference to, you know, so at least you know where North is to some degree and you're not lost.
andre: And finally, I think some just small habits, you know, working it it, it is a journey getting from zero hours to a pilot and you will face setbacks. You will face challenges. There will be obstacles, but taking the pie a slice at a time, just starting small and working on a thing at a time.
andre: I worked on one thing at a time per flight. So one flight, I mean, I might be focused on power settings. The other flight I might be focused on landings.
Nate: Yeah.
andre: One of the flights I might be focused on flares, you know, so just working on one thing at a time and taking the pie small and not burning yourself out through the process, I think is important. You know, you might be very excited to go through and just get, get to fly right off the bat, but understanding your capacity and your resources is important.
andre: Yeah. So think these are the things that I can throw tools, resources, and habits.
Nate: Perfect. And to wrap up, do you have a a quote or a mantra or anything you lean into a daily basis or when things get tough to remind to remind yourself?
andre: Yeah. So, um, I don't have a mantra, unfortunately. um you know, pilots are weird enough. i think we can, we will be just okay. Not talking to ourselves.
andre: Um, but, uh, I do keep this in mind. Um, three words, just staying fundamentally true, you know, sticking to the goal, sticking to the initial passion, you know, i think is important.
Nate: Hmm.
andre: It's very easy nowadays.
andre: or I should say with most jobs, ah once you start making a living out of something, the business and the standard the s SOPs do get to you and you kind of lose focus and you focus on just executing the actions of flying and you forget about the purpose of why you're here.
andre: And I think that helps center me back to why I'm doing this and, you know, staying fundamentally true to why I started to fly.
Nate: while you're here.
andre: And so, I try to keep that in the back of my mind.
Nate: Fantastic. Thank you, Andre. It's been great having a chat and getting to hear a bit about your journey. Thank you for for joining us.
andre: All right, thank you, Nate.
