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EXIT Podcast Episode 03: RDM Aquaculture
369 Plays3 years ago
Karlanea Brown is co-owner of RDM Aquaculture, one of the largest privately-owned shrimp fisheries in the United States. We discuss:
- startup and consulting costs to start your own fishery
- making $10K a month from 20-hour workweeks
- bleach, silicone, & pigshit in imported shrimp (96% of US consumption)
- what it takes to make it in the shrimp game #grindset
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to RDM Aquaculture
00:00:17
Speaker
Welcome to Exit.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm joined by Carlana Brown, who is the vice president of operations, director of operations at- I'm co-owner and vice president.
00:00:27
Speaker
They just gave me that title.
00:00:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:30
Speaker
The co-owner of RDM Aquaculture, which is a shrimp aquaculture business.
Shrimp vs. Other Aquaculture Ventures
00:00:37
Speaker
And as I understand it, so I watched a video from like 2016 about your operation.
00:00:44
Speaker
It said that you were at the time sort of beginning to expand into other forms of
00:00:50
Speaker
aquaculture with fin fish and crawdads.
00:00:53
Speaker
Is that something that you've done or did you stick with shrimp or what direction did you take?
00:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, we actually have done both.
00:00:59
Speaker
And the crawfish, we just got out of them about a year ago, but we're getting back in.
00:01:04
Speaker
We're redesigning the system.
00:01:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:07
Speaker
Because it's, again, it's one of those we did what all the old boys told us to do.
00:01:12
Speaker
And it was so time consuming.
00:01:14
Speaker
We spent four hours every day weighing crayfish.
00:01:17
Speaker
Oh, no way.
00:01:19
Speaker
Because we had, we had roughly around 35 tanks, crayfish tanks, and each one held anywhere from 500 to a thousand crayfish.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:27
Speaker
And if we had one crayfish in that tank, there was a gram to a gram and a half larger than any others.
00:01:33
Speaker
He could kill 10 to 20 of them off a day.
00:01:35
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:01:35
Speaker
That's a pound.
00:01:36
Speaker
And if you have five of them in there, there's five pounds of crayfish I just lost.
00:01:40
Speaker
Wow.
Essential Infrastructure for Shrimp Farming
00:01:41
Speaker
So they're just sort of, the big ones are just way more aggressive?
00:01:44
Speaker
They're very aggressive.
00:01:45
Speaker
And plus the way we grew them, we grew them in a clear water system.
00:01:50
Speaker
If you talk to anybody that's ever raised crayfish, they always raise them in brown, murky, dirty water for that reason.
00:01:55
Speaker
So they don't see each other.
00:01:56
Speaker
They can't see each other.
00:01:58
Speaker
So we've developed a new system.
00:01:59
Speaker
We just haven't had the time to put it all back together.
00:02:03
Speaker
Got it.
00:02:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:04
Speaker
So that's, and the big change that you made is just to make it murkier?
00:02:08
Speaker
No, we're still gonna raise them in clear water because the flavor that we get from them is unbelievable.
00:02:14
Speaker
Plus we've been to a couple of crayfish farms and they smell so badly.
00:02:21
Speaker
And when you're doing tourism, you don't want people coming into a smelly facility.
00:02:26
Speaker
Cause I mean, we're talking about seafood.
00:02:28
Speaker
So that's why we chose to raise them in clear water versus the dark murky water that was literally disgusting.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, so that was kind of one of my questions is so if someone is interested in getting into this business, I got to think that one of the biggest sort of issues is kind of where you're going to put it because it's a big giant tank.
00:02:47
Speaker
And I would think you'd need at least a somewhat climate controlled building.
00:02:52
Speaker
But if you're like doing this in your garage, then you're maybe dealing with moisture issues and smell.
00:02:56
Speaker
So tell me a little bit about like what kind of building you need to get this started.
00:03:01
Speaker
We really, I mean, you can do them in any kind of building, but I don't recommend doing it in your basement.
00:03:06
Speaker
We've had several people do it in their basement.
00:03:09
Speaker
And of course they didn't last too long.
00:03:11
Speaker
But we recommend you can do it in any kind of building, but it just has to be very well insulated.
00:03:15
Speaker
Because you want to keep that climate control.
00:03:17
Speaker
You want to keep the same temperature.
00:03:19
Speaker
So you're not spending a lot more money and trying to heat these tanks up because shrimp are fickle.
00:03:25
Speaker
And if you lose two degrees in two hours, you can kill half your tank of shrimp.
00:03:29
Speaker
But yeah, it is very critical to them.
00:03:32
Speaker
They don't like, shrimp just don't like change, period.
00:03:35
Speaker
So if you can't maintain normalcy for them, they stress and they'll die.
00:03:41
Speaker
So where do you
Climate and Environmental Control
00:03:42
Speaker
need to be?
00:03:43
Speaker
I mean, like I said, I'm in the middle of Indiana.
00:03:45
Speaker
I mean, we get our building is just very well insulated.
00:03:48
Speaker
We have concrete floors, we have one inch of spray foam and then we've got a R19 fiberglass insulation, a vapor barrier and then we have what's called DuraPlate on our walls, semi trailer siding.
00:04:03
Speaker
You can put anything on your walls just as long as it's easy to clean for mica, pig barn siding, anything, barn siding, anything like that will work.
00:04:12
Speaker
But then we blew in 26 inches of R40 into our ceiling.
00:04:17
Speaker
And again, we have 26 inches in our ceiling, but we also have our ceilings at eight feet because no point in heating something I don't necessarily need.
00:04:26
Speaker
And the higher your ceilings, the less you can keep your tanks heated.
00:04:30
Speaker
And my barns,
00:04:31
Speaker
stay pretty consistent all year long, whether we're at 105 degrees outside or a negative 55 with the wind chill.
00:04:38
Speaker
And what's the temperature you need to maintain?
00:04:40
Speaker
Is it 72?
00:04:40
Speaker
Is it room temperature?
00:04:41
Speaker
What is it?
00:04:41
Speaker
We run ours roughly at around 20.
00:04:43
Speaker
Well, right now they're running 84 to 86 degrees Fahrenheit in the room, but the tanks themselves, we try to run them about 86 to 88 because we heat directly inside our tanks.
00:04:56
Speaker
So that way we're not wasted any heat.
00:05:00
Speaker
I see.
00:05:00
Speaker
So you're warming the water and that's sort of keeping the water.
00:05:03
Speaker
He's the air.
00:05:05
Speaker
Got it.
00:05:05
Speaker
OK, well, you need the air to heat your tanks.
00:05:09
Speaker
Your barn is going to be like a sauna.
00:05:12
Speaker
Right.
00:05:13
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:05:13
Speaker
You're not going to want to work in it because it's so hot.
00:05:17
Speaker
And we actually lost a client for just that reason.
00:05:21
Speaker
A client who was buying your PLs.
00:05:24
Speaker
He was buying our PLs.
00:05:25
Speaker
He bought our system.
00:05:26
Speaker
He was up and going.
00:05:27
Speaker
And in less than six months, he shut it down because we told him not to heat the building.
00:05:32
Speaker
But his furnace guy or heating guy told him to heat the building because, yeah, if you heat it, it is going to keep the humidity down.
00:05:41
Speaker
But he couldn't work it.
00:05:42
Speaker
He said it was just miserable in there.
00:05:44
Speaker
And if you can't work it, you're sure you're going to die.
00:05:47
Speaker
Right.
Starting Costs and Initial Challenges
00:05:48
Speaker
So we have a vent system that draws the humidity out.
00:05:51
Speaker
But I mean, I'm not talking a huge vent.
00:05:53
Speaker
I mean, I got a vent that's probably no bigger than this on the wall of my largest production barn.
00:05:59
Speaker
We don't have we don't have water coming off the ceiling or anything like that, but it is roughly around 84 percent humidity.
00:06:07
Speaker
So when you were starting out, I'm guessing that you already had a barn that you converted.
00:06:12
Speaker
No, we actually built the first.
00:06:14
Speaker
You built the barn.
00:06:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
Cause the original barn that we had on this property is a hundred and some years old.
00:06:21
Speaker
And so we built a brand new building for it.
00:06:24
Speaker
So if someone wanted to get started from the ground floor, let's say they've got the land, but they don't have a building.
00:06:30
Speaker
If you were to do this sort of knowing what you know now from the beginning, what would you want to kind of have in your pocket as far as a startup investment?
00:06:38
Speaker
To do an eight tank system, you're looking at roughly around $100,000.
00:06:42
Speaker
That includes your heat source, your generator, your tank system, your testing kit, your consulting, that includes everything.
00:06:49
Speaker
The easiest one I'm giving you is your heat source.
00:06:52
Speaker
We use a tankless water heater and we are on LP gas, but you can use solar.
00:06:59
Speaker
Solar in turn is gonna cost you about 25 to $30,000.
00:07:03
Speaker
You can use a pellet stove, that's about 15,000.
00:07:06
Speaker
My tankless water heater is $4,700.
00:07:10
Speaker
But this is where, that's where it's your choice on how you wanna do this.
00:07:14
Speaker
If you have natural gas, of course your cost is even gonna be less than what that is.
00:07:18
Speaker
Your generator, you can depend on the size you want.
00:07:22
Speaker
We have a 40 kilowatt because when we started, we used these massive one horsepower pumps that we had to make sure we can get it started.
00:07:30
Speaker
Well, now we don't use one horsepower pumps.
00:07:33
Speaker
I have a one horsepower regenerator blower that does eight tanks.
00:07:38
Speaker
So I don't need a large generator to jumpstart everything.
00:07:43
Speaker
Kind of runs through the whole system.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, and so this is why, you know, like I said, that's why I just give everybody a rounded up number of roughly $100,000 minus the building.
00:07:53
Speaker
Because the building is the one factor I cannot even begin to comprehend.
00:07:59
Speaker
Because if you're going to do a new building, we just added a building four and a half years ago.
00:08:03
Speaker
It's a 50 by 100.
00:08:05
Speaker
That holds 12 tanks and we got plenty of room for office lab.
00:08:09
Speaker
We got, that's where our crayfish were at.
00:08:11
Speaker
That's where they're going back in at.
00:08:13
Speaker
We have 12
Achieving Profitability in Shrimp Farming
00:08:14
Speaker
tanks in there.
00:08:14
Speaker
So we have plenty of room.
00:08:16
Speaker
And that building was a little over $50,000.
00:08:19
Speaker
But if you already have an existing building, for example, we're working with somebody right now.
00:08:23
Speaker
The gentleman is in,
00:08:26
Speaker
one of the dakotas i'm sorry i can't think of which one he's in but anyhow he um bought a whole block and on this block is a like a hundred year old school building so we're converting part of it into the shrimp farm oh nice so we're taking classrooms so there you know again that's a cost that i can't even begin to factor in yeah
00:08:49
Speaker
So if it's, if it's a hundred K and you've got that, that's, you know, you're, you're, you're targeting like eight tanks for that kind of investment.
00:08:58
Speaker
What if, if you're starting from eight tanks, what would you kind of expect the revenue on eight tanks to be?
00:09:05
Speaker
Not a whole lot.
00:09:06
Speaker
Your first year is going to suck because your survival rates are going to be low.
00:09:11
Speaker
And the only reason your survival rate, it's nothing you're doing, you just don't have enough bacteria to sustain all the shrimp.
00:09:18
Speaker
And it takes one year to build up this bacteria.
00:09:21
Speaker
And this is why we like to start everybody out with an eight tank system.
00:09:24
Speaker
We don't want you to go and start out with 32 tanks because it's a lot harder to build that bacteria up where you're doing eight tanks.
00:09:30
Speaker
It's not as hard to build it up.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then you also don't have as much money invested and you don't feel like you're going in a hole.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah.
Daily Operations and Water Quality
00:09:38
Speaker
Because your first year you will make money and it'll be paying all your bills, but you're not going to have a whole lot left over for your own profit.
00:09:45
Speaker
I would say you're going to have pocket change left over.
00:09:48
Speaker
But the second year is when everything flips.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:51
Speaker
And this is where we want you to start adding on because an eight tank system, unless you're diversifying an already farm, I mean, like if you already have chickens or you have cows or something like that, to add another source of income, which is going to get you roughly around 15 to 20,000 a year, that takes three hours a day.
00:10:07
Speaker
This is a good way to do it.
00:10:09
Speaker
But if you really want to make this a business, an eight tank system ain't going to bring it to you.
00:10:13
Speaker
Got it.
00:10:14
Speaker
But we try to take everybody doing the baby steps because doing the baby steps is the best way to build this operation up.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
So it's, it's, you view it as almost like a, maybe passive income is the wrong word, but a, a low labor intensive put in the, the investment ahead of time.
00:10:33
Speaker
And then you sort of get the profit without a whole lot of upkeep.
00:10:38
Speaker
And your second year is when everything is going to flip because now you've got great bacteria, your overhead costs are going to come way down and your survival rate is going to go up, which means at the end, more money in your pocket.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:51
Speaker
But this isn't an operation to where you can just go and throw shrimp in and say, magically grow.
00:10:57
Speaker
It is a commitment of seven days a week.
00:11:01
Speaker
We call them divas for a reason.
00:11:03
Speaker
They don't like change.
00:11:05
Speaker
And the thing is, nothing's going to happen overnight.
00:11:09
Speaker
But if you're not paying attention in four days,
00:11:12
Speaker
You can have one, two, three or four tank full of dead shrimp.
00:11:16
Speaker
I lost two full tanks of shrimp in one day for just that reason.
00:11:21
Speaker
We didn't test for three days.
00:11:24
Speaker
I saw in the video that you do nine water quality checks per day.
00:11:29
Speaker
Is there a way to scale this when you're like, if you're doing other things or is it kind of like you need to be kind of at home all day to do this?
00:11:39
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:11:40
Speaker
That's why I loved it when we first started this out.
00:11:42
Speaker
I only had to work two and a half hours a day.
00:11:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:45
Speaker
I mean, I had a day job that I drove an hour to.
00:11:49
Speaker
So my husband would come in in the morning and I would have all the feed ready and he would do a DO reading or dissolved oxygen reading.
00:11:56
Speaker
And then I would come in and do all the testing in the evening.
00:11:58
Speaker
I was done in two, two and a half hours, but that included all their testing, feeding, getting feed set up for the next day and cleaning.
00:12:06
Speaker
And then on Saturdays, we would do testing, the two of us together, and we'd get it done in about an hour.
00:12:11
Speaker
And then we would move shrimp, move tanks around, whatever needed to be done.
00:12:15
Speaker
Even like I said, right now, I run 19 production tanks, seven intermediate tanks, and I run anywhere from six to 10 nursery tanks every month.
00:12:23
Speaker
I have everything done in three hours.
00:12:26
Speaker
Three and a half hours.
00:12:27
Speaker
Now
Market Dynamics and Sales Strategies
00:12:28
Speaker
for the first six months, you will do all nine tests, because that's the only way you're going to get to understand how your bacteria water actually works.
00:12:36
Speaker
You have eight tanks, you have eight ecosystems.
00:12:39
Speaker
So with those eight ecosystems, you got to maintain them.
00:12:42
Speaker
You can't just do tank one and assume the rest of them are the same.
00:12:45
Speaker
After six months, we train you.
00:12:47
Speaker
Like I said, we've talked to you.
00:12:48
Speaker
We work with you every day for the first six months to keep from losing our clients because this is where everybody gets bored.
00:12:54
Speaker
They quit testing.
00:12:55
Speaker
Shrimps start dying.
00:12:56
Speaker
They don't understand.
00:12:58
Speaker
So we stretch out your testing.
00:13:00
Speaker
So every Monday is a full test.
00:13:02
Speaker
You will do all nine tests every Monday.
00:13:05
Speaker
So that gives you a base to start your numbers with.
00:13:09
Speaker
Now we will do all meters.
00:13:10
Speaker
Meters take up five of your nine tests.
00:13:13
Speaker
Those don't cost you a dime, maybe 15, 20 minutes of your time.
00:13:16
Speaker
That includes your dissolved oxygen, a pH meter, your amoff cone or your settled solids, and that's it.
00:13:24
Speaker
That's five of your tests.
00:13:25
Speaker
The next thing is your reagents.
00:13:27
Speaker
Now on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, we only test for alkalinity.
00:13:32
Speaker
I've already done an ammonia test.
00:13:33
Speaker
I have zero ammonia in my tank, so I don't need to test every day.
00:13:38
Speaker
And ammonia is your most expensive test that you're going to do.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, Wednesdays and Fridays, we do a nitrite test.
00:13:44
Speaker
Sundays are meters only.
00:13:46
Speaker
So I mean, I've cut that way down in half.
00:13:48
Speaker
After the first year, we go from the reagents to what we call API testing.
00:13:53
Speaker
So instead of paying 27 cents a test per tank, we're paying about 8 cents.
00:13:57
Speaker
But the reason I don't want you to use those in the beginning is the reagents are going to give you a much truer number.
00:14:04
Speaker
The API test, which are strips mostly or drops, they're not as accurate.
00:14:11
Speaker
And if you don't know what you're looking at, you can make a huge mistake.
00:14:15
Speaker
So how are you modifying the tanks?
00:14:18
Speaker
Like, how are you responding to that data?
00:14:20
Speaker
Are you adding baking soda?
00:14:22
Speaker
Like, what goes into the tank?
00:14:24
Speaker
If you have too much ammonia, what's the easiest way to get rid of ammonia?
00:14:27
Speaker
Cut their feed.
00:14:28
Speaker
They don't produce as much waste.
00:14:30
Speaker
If your nitrites are up, you back off your feed because they're producing too much.
00:14:34
Speaker
So, I mean, it's little things like that.
00:14:35
Speaker
I mean, we give you a feed chart, but it's not in concrete.
00:14:38
Speaker
You have to base it on your tanks and how the shrimp are.
00:14:41
Speaker
We add baking soda for the alkalinity.
00:14:43
Speaker
We add calcium carbonate to harden our water even more because it is what keeps your alkalinity balanced.
00:14:52
Speaker
We add simple syrup as a carbon source for our bacteria.
00:14:55
Speaker
Other than that, we don't do anything to the tanks.
00:14:58
Speaker
And it's not a quick fix either.
00:15:00
Speaker
Because if you're having a problem, it took several days to get to this.
00:15:04
Speaker
It's going to take several days to fix it.
00:15:07
Speaker
But the problem is, in the meantime, you are going to lose a few shrimp.
00:15:10
Speaker
So it's kind of like you're making modest corrections.
00:15:13
Speaker
You're not overcorrecting because then it'll lag.
00:15:16
Speaker
And that's why we highly recommend testing every single day.
00:15:20
Speaker
I saw that you supply PLs to other suppliers, to other shrimp farmers.
00:15:25
Speaker
Can you tell me a little bit about the added challenge of raising the larvae versus just buying and raising them?
00:15:33
Speaker
If your first year, when you have no bacteria, you have to purchase a minimum of 30,000 PLs.
00:15:40
Speaker
Your stocking density is only 3,500 per tank.
00:15:44
Speaker
Doing our A tank system, you do two tanks one month, two tanks the next month, two tanks and so on.
00:15:48
Speaker
So your first time out, when you get all these PLs in, you might only get a thousand of them to survive.
00:15:54
Speaker
So now you don't even have enough to stock one tank to get you going.
00:15:58
Speaker
So you're already going backwards.
00:16:00
Speaker
So what we do is we offer the PLs or feeder shrimp as we call them for the first year.
00:16:05
Speaker
After that, I want you to start doing your own because now you're expanding.
00:16:08
Speaker
Now you can use more.
00:16:09
Speaker
And getting that 30,000, you can actually do a four to five tank rotation with that.
00:16:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:14
Speaker
So that's like, that's just a startup.
00:16:16
Speaker
You're buying the PLs just to startup.
00:16:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:19
Speaker
Plus, that's the only way I can give you my bacteria water.
00:16:22
Speaker
We have to haul the PLs and the bacteria water.
00:16:25
Speaker
I can't ship it to you.
00:16:26
Speaker
It needs the shrimp to survive.
00:16:28
Speaker
So it's almost like a sourdough starter where you've got the bacteria water that the shrimp are kind of...
00:16:34
Speaker
saturated in and that sort of spreads into the tank.
00:16:36
Speaker
Exactly.
00:16:37
Speaker
Okay, cool.
00:16:39
Speaker
So you said in your video way back that you were getting 15 to 18 pounds, 15 to $18 a pound for your shrimp.
00:16:47
Speaker
Has that market fluctuated?
00:16:49
Speaker
I know at the time you were maybe the only game in town.
00:16:51
Speaker
Has that changed?
00:16:52
Speaker
Right now, we still sell our shrimp at $18 a pound, whether you get 30 count or 20 count.
00:16:58
Speaker
Our larger ones, we do have some that are like at the 15, 16 count.
00:17:03
Speaker
I don't like selling them that large, but sometimes they just happen to get that large.
00:17:07
Speaker
We do sell those at $22 a pound.
00:17:09
Speaker
No, I struggle.
00:17:10
Speaker
I can't keep up.
00:17:12
Speaker
And we sell everything right out our front door.
00:17:14
Speaker
And if you see where I'm located, we're amazed.
00:17:18
Speaker
We are 100% amazed because I'm not on my way to anything.
00:17:22
Speaker
I mean, people drive two hours out of their way just to come and get two pounds of shrimp.
00:17:27
Speaker
And because the flavor and the fact that it's a good quality product,
00:17:33
Speaker
People are willing to do that.
00:17:35
Speaker
We get new customers all the time.
00:17:38
Speaker
And I'm amazed at that because we don't advertise.
00:17:40
Speaker
I have a website and I have a Facebook page.
00:17:42
Speaker
That's it.
00:17:44
Speaker
We don't pay for advertising.
00:17:46
Speaker
So you're not primarily a business to business type operation.
00:17:50
Speaker
Are you selling to restaurants and groceries or?
00:17:52
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:17:53
Speaker
But I was picky as to what restaurants got my product.
00:17:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:56
Speaker
There were only two restaurants in Chicago that were allowed to have my product.
00:18:00
Speaker
We've been in other restaurants, but I pulled from them.
00:18:03
Speaker
The minute you freeze my product, you're done.
00:18:07
Speaker
Ah, guys, if they freeze my product, then they're not going to want to continue paying 16, $18 a pound because they can get a frozen product for $7 a pound.
00:18:17
Speaker
Sure.
00:18:18
Speaker
So all of our restaurants we've ever been in, they have to sign a contract with me stating if I ever find out they freeze it, they will no longer get it.
00:18:26
Speaker
Now, for four years up until COVID, we were in two major restaurants in Chicago, the Marriott on Lakeshore Drive and the Palmer House, both of them.
00:18:34
Speaker
And they only got my shrimp on Thursday or Friday.
00:18:36
Speaker
But I also limit them as to how much they got because you're not going to sell 100 pounds in a couple of days.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
So you got.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:18:45
Speaker
You can't.
00:18:47
Speaker
So they can't sell 100 pounds in two days.
00:18:49
Speaker
What are they going to do?
00:18:50
Speaker
They're going to freeze it.
00:18:52
Speaker
Right.
00:18:52
Speaker
So we limit them to 40 to 45 pounds.
00:18:55
Speaker
Were they happy with me?
00:18:57
Speaker
No, but they kept taking it every week.
00:18:59
Speaker
So I don't think they were that upset with me.
00:19:02
Speaker
And do those commercial customers still come to you or do you ship to them?
00:19:06
Speaker
We actually drove it to them and we charged a delivery fee.
00:19:09
Speaker
When we started out, we did restaurants only.
00:19:11
Speaker
We didn't think anybody would drive out here.
00:19:13
Speaker
So all of a sudden our neighbors were coming in.
00:19:16
Speaker
So we decided to put in store hours, Fridays, four to seven, Saturdays, nine until noon.
00:19:21
Speaker
Well, then people were showing up on Monday.
00:19:23
Speaker
They were showing up on Tuesday.
00:19:25
Speaker
And our business started to grow so much that I quit my day job and then I work this.
00:19:31
Speaker
But our hours were nine until noon.
00:19:33
Speaker
Now, all of a sudden, we're open six days a week from nine until five.
00:19:38
Speaker
Wow.
00:19:39
Speaker
It almost seems like it's the market is sort of functionally limitless for an individual person.
00:19:45
Speaker
producer and it's more just a question of like how much you can afford to scale it up yeah and that's the thing you've got to figure out because like i said retail works for us i'm not for sure how or why it does because but it does and i mean you know i'm very blessed and very grateful for it but we've had farms that we've gone to that i think would be fabulous for retail but for whatever reason they can't get people in
00:20:08
Speaker
Well, if you can't get them in, you can't sell the shrimp.
00:20:10
Speaker
So you've got to be able to be willing to be flexible and find out what's going to work in your market.
00:20:16
Speaker
So you may have to only do restaurants and grocery stores.
00:20:19
Speaker
That's fine.
00:20:20
Speaker
My husband hates the retail side of it because it's iffy.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:24
Speaker
I mean, we might go a week without selling a single shrimp.
00:20:27
Speaker
And then the next week we've sold two to 300 pounds in three days.
00:20:30
Speaker
Hmm.
00:20:31
Speaker
So, I mean, that's why he hates the retail.
00:20:33
Speaker
We're wholesale.
00:20:34
Speaker
He loved those Thursday mornings when we would harvest out the shrimp and we would ship it off to Chicago.
00:20:40
Speaker
He loved it.
00:20:41
Speaker
And, you know, cause you guaranteed a paycheck every week.
00:20:44
Speaker
Right.
00:20:45
Speaker
If I was closer to town or if I had a brick and mortar building in town, I'd probably be constant.
00:20:52
Speaker
Right.
00:20:52
Speaker
Because, you know, on average, you have to drive 30 minutes to get to my place.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:57
Speaker
And so that's why I said I feel very blessed because we average 300 to 500 pounds at our front door.
00:21:03
Speaker
Wow.
Production Limits and Expansion Plans
00:21:04
Speaker
And that's just the retail side of it.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:08
Speaker
And that's why sometimes we literally we run out of shrimp because we can't keep up with everything that's coming our way.
00:21:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:17
Speaker
I'm not saying I got empty tanks.
00:21:18
Speaker
I'm just saying the shrimp are small and we need them to grow.
00:21:21
Speaker
Is there a way to expand that without building more tanks or is just kind of like you're limited by the tank size?
00:21:29
Speaker
You're limited by the tank size.
00:21:31
Speaker
You're only going to get anywhere in your first, you know, like I said, we always talk about your first year based on a 30 to 50% survival rate.
00:21:39
Speaker
But this is why we talk about at a 90% or 80 to 90%, which is about three years in three to four years in, you're going to be producing roughly 100 pounds of shrimp per tank every three months.
00:21:51
Speaker
in a 14 foot tank now when you go up in size of course now you can be doing 200 pounds or 300 pounds so that's where like i said because we like to start everybody out on the smaller tanks but again that's only so that you're not filled because you got to keep your day job and i don't want somebody working eight hours at a what should be a part-time job and then working your eight hours at your normal job because guess which one's going to give
00:22:16
Speaker
Right.
00:22:16
Speaker
The business
Regulatory Standards and Community Relations
00:22:17
Speaker
is going to get because you need to pay your bills.
00:22:20
Speaker
Right.
00:22:20
Speaker
So you're going to stay working your eight hour job because it's the only one bringing in money for the first year.
00:22:25
Speaker
But when you go to your second year, I don't want you to expand with 14 foot tanks.
00:22:29
Speaker
We want you to go to 16, 18 or 20, whatever you feel comfortable with, because that's only going to increase how many shrimp you produce and how much more you can sell.
00:22:38
Speaker
I'm sure that it varies from state to state, but what was sort of your process as far as legal and regulatory getting this to where you were approved to sell these things commercially?
00:22:49
Speaker
That was actually quite humorous.
00:22:50
Speaker
Nobody knows where to put us.
00:22:53
Speaker
We don't fall under any category.
00:22:55
Speaker
We are saltwater shrimp in the middle of Indiana.
00:22:59
Speaker
There's no laws.
00:23:01
Speaker
There is nothing, but we do, and all of our clients do the same thing.
00:23:05
Speaker
We act as if we are under rules and regulations.
00:23:10
Speaker
I mean, I ran school cafeterias.
00:23:12
Speaker
I had to work with the health department.
00:23:13
Speaker
We worked with the USDA.
00:23:15
Speaker
So I've got some understanding of what they're looking for and what to do.
00:23:19
Speaker
So all of our farms and everybody we work with are under those same challenges.
00:23:24
Speaker
Because if they ever do come in and start regulating this, you're already doing it.
00:23:29
Speaker
In the state of Indiana, they still don't have any desire to come after us because we're doing everything right.
00:23:36
Speaker
Got it.
00:23:37
Speaker
as if we are being health inspected.
00:23:39
Speaker
I mean, we actually have food service certification, a HACCP certification, livestock certification.
00:23:46
Speaker
They're not necessary, but we went ahead and got them.
00:23:50
Speaker
We invite the USDA, the FDA and their health inspector in every year.
00:23:55
Speaker
By inviting them in, which nobody ever invites these people in, but by inviting them in, they understand what we're about.
00:24:04
Speaker
And so it gives them a clear understanding.
00:24:08
Speaker
I mean, I can sit and tell them, but unless they actually see it.
00:24:11
Speaker
And then it also helps you as the farmer.
00:24:14
Speaker
If somebody reads an article about some fish farm somewhere else and about how they're being environmentally blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:24:23
Speaker
They're going to go to your health inspector and they're going to complain about you.
00:24:26
Speaker
Now, if that health inspector doesn't know he contacts you, he has to go on the word of the first person and not you.
00:24:33
Speaker
But if he's been to your facility, he's actually going to tell that guy that's not how he does it.
00:24:38
Speaker
Right.
00:24:39
Speaker
We've seen it actually three times.
00:24:42
Speaker
And one time I got so angry and I don't get angry very often, but my Irish comes up sometimes.
00:24:49
Speaker
And we were these two young kids were looking to get a facility.
00:24:53
Speaker
They purchased this land.
00:24:55
Speaker
And in order to get their driveway in, they had they had to get a five foot easement because it was on a bridge.
00:25:02
Speaker
So they asked us to come to the meeting because they were all, all these people were asking them questions and they couldn't answer them.
00:25:08
Speaker
So we went to the meeting with them.
00:25:10
Speaker
50 people showed up to protest this shrimp farm.
00:25:13
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:25:14
Speaker
And the thing about it was their questions were so stupid.
00:25:19
Speaker
The first person gets up and she's, well, I'm highly allergic to shrimp.
00:25:23
Speaker
Can they guarantee me I won't have a reaction?
00:25:27
Speaker
I looked at her and I go, do you not go to a grocery store?
00:25:30
Speaker
Do you not go to a restaurant?
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, I said they all have shrimp and they all serve it.
00:25:35
Speaker
I said, and do you think they're going to stand on their front porch and throw shrimp at you next.
00:25:40
Speaker
I mean, there were several other in between and they just got dumber and dumber.
00:25:42
Speaker
This one was the best of them all.
00:25:45
Speaker
She has horses and she wanted to know if if there was a tornado, what would happen?
00:25:54
Speaker
I looked at her and I go, well, I guess if it hits their barn, all the shrimp are dead.
00:25:59
Speaker
She says, well, no, no, no, no.
00:26:01
Speaker
She goes, you guys use salt water.
00:26:02
Speaker
She goes, wouldn't that be a problem for my horses to drink it?
00:26:06
Speaker
So if you go into the tornado, there's a lot of water or rain, which will dilute any of your salt.
00:26:12
Speaker
And you're more worried about your horses drinking salt water than the septic tank that's running out.
00:26:17
Speaker
I said, and that's your biggest concern?
00:26:21
Speaker
I was like, and I mean, and this is how it got.
00:26:22
Speaker
And I mean, after the 50th one went through, I just stood there and I looked at those two young kids and I said, Sal, get the hell out of this county.
00:26:31
Speaker
These people are morons.
00:26:34
Speaker
I mean, I have never said anything like that about anybody in my life.
00:26:37
Speaker
I'm usually very professional, but I was so angry.
00:26:41
Speaker
I couldn't, I'm like, these were the stupidest things I'd ever heard.
00:26:44
Speaker
That's funny.
00:26:46
Speaker
And so this is, they're actually, I just got contacted by them again.
00:26:50
Speaker
They bought new property and they're looking to go forward again.
00:26:54
Speaker
Oh, good.
00:26:54
Speaker
They're in a different part of the state.
00:26:57
Speaker
So this is why we talk about, I mean, but by having the health department in, they understand.
00:27:02
Speaker
We had another one.
00:27:03
Speaker
We had a guy over in New York, $4 million in his building because he was wanting to do double levels.
00:27:10
Speaker
So, I mean, most of it was in the infrastructure because you had to support those tanks.
00:27:14
Speaker
And some guy read about a fish farm here in Indiana, which granted this farm did deserve all the bad publicity they got.
00:27:23
Speaker
And so they went to the newspaper and told him about his shrimp farm was just like that.
00:27:30
Speaker
But he hadn't gone to the health department and had him in to look at what he was doing.
00:27:34
Speaker
So it became this huge ordeal.
00:27:37
Speaker
And like I said, the health department had to side with the first guy because they didn't know.
00:27:41
Speaker
The trick
Sustainable Practices and Environmental Considerations
00:27:42
Speaker
basically is just to be really, to get to know your inspectors and get to know everybody that's making those calls.
00:27:48
Speaker
That makes sense to me.
00:27:50
Speaker
They will, when you do call them up, they're probably gonna laugh at you and say, what, a shrimp farm?
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, they did that to me and they have to come to your facility if you invite them out.
00:28:02
Speaker
They have to come out.
00:28:03
Speaker
They're going to sit and tell you, well, we don't know what to do or anything like that.
00:28:07
Speaker
But how I got them into ours is I just told them, I said, hey, I want to make sure we're doing everything correctly.
00:28:12
Speaker
If you were to inspect us, could you make any suggestions so we are doing everything correctly?
00:28:19
Speaker
One of the things that you mentioned is sort of the environmental and
00:28:26
Speaker
health impact of the way that shrimp are sometimes produced overseas and how your way is different
00:28:33
Speaker
Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:28:35
Speaker
And it's very disgusting.
00:28:37
Speaker
I've visited 14 different countries.
00:28:40
Speaker
I've been to Vietnam.
00:28:41
Speaker
We've been to China.
00:28:42
Speaker
We've been to Thailand.
00:28:43
Speaker
We've been to India, the major shrimp sources.
00:28:45
Speaker
And the reason I go there is because I'm training them on what we do here because they know that the product they're offering isn't that good.
00:28:53
Speaker
But the amazing thing is, is all the farms that we've helped, not a single one of them sell their shrimp to the U.S. It all goes into the European market.
00:29:00
Speaker
Because out of the 96% of the shrimp we eat is imported into this country.
00:29:05
Speaker
Out of that 96%, only 2% is inspected.
00:29:06
Speaker
Out of that 2%, 60% is rejected.
00:29:13
Speaker
And then what they do is if they reject it, they go sit out past the three mile markers, which puts you in international waters.
00:29:20
Speaker
They sit there for two or three days.
00:29:22
Speaker
They bring it back in.
00:29:23
Speaker
How well do you think that shrimp's actually looking by now?
00:29:26
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:29:27
Speaker
What are the odds of them getting caught?
00:29:29
Speaker
They bring it in.
00:29:30
Speaker
Now they're going to, if they do get caught, now they're going to run it down through Mexico.
00:29:34
Speaker
They're going to bleach it, cook it and add food coloring to it.
00:29:38
Speaker
We've been in the farm I was working at in Vietnam, very southern tip of Vietnam.
00:29:45
Speaker
A lot of smaller farmers that produce, you know, like a thousand pounds, you know, one particular one.
00:29:52
Speaker
He was taking his generator, pumping his water out.
00:29:56
Speaker
It was leaking gas directly to where a shrimp were shrimp absorbed their environment.
00:30:01
Speaker
My question was, what are you going to do with that shrimp?
00:30:04
Speaker
He tells me we sell to America because they'll eat anything.
00:30:07
Speaker
Oh man.
00:30:08
Speaker
We've literally seen to wear certain places in the country where they're injecting them with silicone because what happened about eight years ago, there was a nasty disease that every country that produced shrimp outdoors, every one of them in a three month period lost over 90% of their country shrimp.
00:30:24
Speaker
So there was a while there where we couldn't get big shrimp and you still don't see too many jumbo shrimp around.
00:30:30
Speaker
And so, but you can't see silicone, but it's there in your meat.
00:30:33
Speaker
And when you cook it, where does that go?
00:30:35
Speaker
That goes directly into your meat.
00:30:37
Speaker
Oh, that's so gross.
00:30:39
Speaker
It is.
00:30:39
Speaker
That's why I can't touch shrimp out.
00:30:42
Speaker
We've seen it.
00:30:43
Speaker
We've seen the thing in Mexico where they bleach it and add food coloring.
00:30:46
Speaker
It is the most disgusting thing you've ever done.
00:30:49
Speaker
We raise pigs.
00:30:50
Speaker
Pigs smell.
00:30:51
Speaker
My pig burns with roses compared to this.
00:30:54
Speaker
And so this is why, and I think that's a lot of people are starting to understand.
00:30:59
Speaker
We've actually saw where villages to where they have like this central pond outside their little village, all their septic, all their chemicals, everything goes into that pond.
00:31:11
Speaker
That's where the shrimp are at.
00:31:12
Speaker
We've sent them to where farmers will put them under their cows or their pigs or their chickens.
00:31:18
Speaker
The only food they get is from the animal above.
00:31:21
Speaker
Now, the food that the pig or the chicken eat are loaded with antibiotics and hormones, which are now coming down into their food.
00:31:28
Speaker
Now, most of our shrimp,
Shrimp Diet and Operational Costs
00:31:29
Speaker
the reason they get rejected is due to those antibiotics and hormones because they're actually banned in the United States, but it's coming in through our food.
00:31:38
Speaker
Wow.
00:31:38
Speaker
And I would love to see more and more of these shrimp farms because I one day want to be able to eat shrimp in a restaurant.
00:31:45
Speaker
I can't.
00:31:47
Speaker
And my friends can't either.
00:31:48
Speaker
Once they've had our shrimp, they don't eat shrimp out for that same reason, because ours has the meat sperm.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's not slimy like it is anymore.
00:31:57
Speaker
It doesn't have a fishy smell or a strange smell to it.
00:32:01
Speaker
And it is just the sweetest meat you'll ever taste.
00:32:04
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:32:04
Speaker
And that's what sells it.
00:32:06
Speaker
I mean, I have a lady that lives an hour and a half away and every month she comes in at least four or five times every single month.
00:32:13
Speaker
And she only takes two pounds every time.
00:32:17
Speaker
So what do you feed them?
00:32:18
Speaker
It is a specific diet made for our system.
00:32:22
Speaker
It comes from a company called Ziegler and in the production side of it, they do a 35% protein, which consists of fish meal, corn meal, and soy meal.
00:32:31
Speaker
They're working very hard to get rid of the fish meal.
00:32:33
Speaker
That is my biggest complaint is the fish meal, but you can't put more soy because shrimp are actually allergic to soy.
00:32:40
Speaker
The soy will literally burn their digestive system.
00:32:42
Speaker
And if you burn their digestive system, they can't eat, they die.
00:32:45
Speaker
They can have a small amount and they're fine, but they can't have a whole lot.
00:32:49
Speaker
So the fish meal is your main protein source.
00:32:52
Speaker
Then there's algae and vitamins that would be natural to their area.
00:32:56
Speaker
It's a little pellet food for us to manufacture it ourselves is something we thought about doing.
00:33:02
Speaker
But in order to buy an extruder, you're talking about six or seven million dollars.
00:33:07
Speaker
Wow.
00:33:07
Speaker
So I haven't even come close to spending that much money buying feed from them.
00:33:12
Speaker
And food is your least cost, really, because it's one pound of food to every pound of shrimp.
00:33:19
Speaker
So what we tell everybody is an average.
00:33:21
Speaker
You're going to use roughly one 55 pound bag of feed every month for every 14 foot tank.
00:33:27
Speaker
So you're basically less than one to one food ratio.
00:33:31
Speaker
Wow.
00:33:32
Speaker
So your big overheads be, I imagine, power if you're heating that water continuously, especially in the wintertime.
00:33:38
Speaker
Well, we don't heat the water continuously.
00:33:40
Speaker
We actually have thermostats set on it.
00:33:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:43
Speaker
So what is your big overheads, your big items as far as cost?
00:33:48
Speaker
My labor cost.
00:33:49
Speaker
Labor cost.
00:33:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:50
Speaker
But my labor cost is because I get a heck of a salary.
00:33:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:55
Speaker
So yeah, my husband and I get, we get, we get really nice salaries now, plus our profit at the end of the year.
00:34:01
Speaker
Well, right now we only have one other employee and that's my son.
00:34:06
Speaker
And we've had other employees.
00:34:08
Speaker
It just made my life a little bit easier, but I really don't need them.
00:34:12
Speaker
And that's been part of our problem because in reality, I only need an employee for four hours a day.
00:34:17
Speaker
Rest of the time, like I said, and trying to find stuff for them to do all the time.
00:34:21
Speaker
It's a little difficult sometimes.
00:34:24
Speaker
So, you know, short of paying yourself and sort of the value of your labor, you're keeping the heat on, you're buying feed.
00:34:34
Speaker
So I don't know if you circulate the water or do you, because I mean, it seems like you want to maintain that kind of bacterial environment.
00:34:40
Speaker
So the water stays inside the tank.
00:34:42
Speaker
We do not.
00:34:43
Speaker
Like I said, my water is 11 years old.
00:34:45
Speaker
We've been reusing our water since we started.
00:34:48
Speaker
Do you need to
Water Management and Consulting Services
00:34:50
Speaker
oxygenate it or aerate it or does that take care of itself?
00:34:53
Speaker
Well, it's aerated to a point.
00:34:56
Speaker
We actually have air stones, but the air stones are mostly to keep everything in suspension.
00:35:02
Speaker
Because if that bacteria was to settle out, it becomes a super thick sludge, it'll suffocate out your shrimp.
00:35:08
Speaker
So we have a volcano, what we call a volcano in the center.
00:35:12
Speaker
It's just a solid drum with air stones.
00:35:14
Speaker
It's designed to bring everything up and out.
00:35:16
Speaker
But the air lifts around the outside are what actually produce your oxygen.
00:35:21
Speaker
It's just a PVC pipe with an air stone.
00:35:24
Speaker
So I have a current at the bottom.
00:35:26
Speaker
We're forcing water up through a PVC pipe, which produces oxygen.
00:35:30
Speaker
And then I have a third current at the top.
00:35:33
Speaker
So I don't need pumps, filters, or anything like that.
00:35:37
Speaker
A lot of farmers tell us that we need a protein skimmer.
00:35:40
Speaker
We've done protein skimmers.
00:35:41
Speaker
They actually destroy my bacteria.
00:35:44
Speaker
So it's basically your water is a duplication of the ocean.
00:35:49
Speaker
The ocean doesn't have protein skimmers.
00:35:52
Speaker
She doesn't have pumps.
00:35:53
Speaker
She doesn't have filters.
00:35:55
Speaker
She has natural.
00:35:56
Speaker
And so that's what our job is, is just to maintain the bacteria water.
00:36:02
Speaker
As long as your water does fine, your shrimp do fine.
00:36:05
Speaker
I know that I saw from your background that you and your husband have experience and credentials
00:36:14
Speaker
sort of in agriculture in this business.
00:36:17
Speaker
No, he does, not me.
00:36:19
Speaker
Okay, okay.
00:36:20
Speaker
So is that something where a novice can kind of get a packet that has sort of the resources and the information they need, or is that something where they sort of consult with you over the long process?
00:36:35
Speaker
With our consulting, what we do is we actually take out 18 months of your learning curve.
00:36:40
Speaker
I mean, you can learn this all on your own, but I will be honest with you, it'll be very difficult because it'll be like my first three years.
00:36:46
Speaker
We had a consultant, we lost a million shrimp my first year, nearly a million the second year.
00:36:52
Speaker
Our consultant never raised a shrimp in his life.
00:36:54
Speaker
We found that out.
00:36:55
Speaker
But once we figured this out and we started doing things based on what the shrimp want and not what people tell us that we're supposed to be doing, it made all the difference because I work for the shrimp.
00:37:08
Speaker
They don't work for me.
00:37:09
Speaker
I work for them.
00:37:10
Speaker
If you want them to survive, you have to make sure that everything is good for them.
00:37:15
Speaker
And so that's what we do.
00:37:17
Speaker
But our consulting is it's classified as a one year consulting contract.
00:37:23
Speaker
But what it actually is, it's ongoing forever.
00:37:26
Speaker
Okay, after six months, what we do is we work with you every single day for the first six months.
00:37:32
Speaker
We don't, it's not that we don't like bringing people here to train them because we love helping people out.
00:37:36
Speaker
But the problem is my water is 11 years old.
00:37:39
Speaker
You're starting out.
00:37:41
Speaker
There are things that you need to do that I have no way to show you here because we're so far advanced on that.
00:37:48
Speaker
And there's things that we do that you can't do for at least the first two years.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
So this is where it gets a little confusing when we bring people in because then when you go home,
00:37:57
Speaker
You're like, well, we didn't do that at your place and I'm trying to explain it to you.
00:38:01
Speaker
So what we do is we teach you how to do the testing in the manual that we give you along with the consulting.
00:38:08
Speaker
It's, I mean, if you're a kindergartner and you can read, you can actually follow these directions.
00:38:15
Speaker
But what we do is you do the water quality, you send it to me and then I look it over and then I send you back telling you what you need to do and explaining to you why we're doing what we're doing.
00:38:26
Speaker
So it's ongoing education for six months.
00:38:29
Speaker
After the first six months, you're going to have a pretty good idea of something.
00:38:33
Speaker
You know, if you're alkaline and it goes out of whack, you're going to know how to fix it and what to do.
00:38:37
Speaker
But the thing is, year two comes along and bacteria is going to start changing.
00:38:42
Speaker
It just does.
00:38:43
Speaker
It's bacteria.
00:38:45
Speaker
So now you see things happening in your tank.
00:38:48
Speaker
Well, don't sit there and try to fix them on your own.
00:38:50
Speaker
Call me.
00:38:52
Speaker
I've already been through that and I can tell you how to fix it.
00:38:56
Speaker
And so we work with you on that.
00:38:59
Speaker
So how do you, is there sort of a fixed fee associated with that?
00:39:04
Speaker
Is it a profit sharing?
00:39:05
Speaker
How do you monetize that?
00:39:06
Speaker
We just have a flat fee of $10,000 for our consulting.
00:39:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like I said, it's ongoing for as long as you're in the business.
00:39:14
Speaker
The contract isn't going to say that.
00:39:16
Speaker
My lawyer won't let us say that, but I tell her about it.
00:39:20
Speaker
Because, you know, I mean, she wants us to charge you per hour for text messaging, phone calls.
00:39:26
Speaker
And I'm like, you know, I don't have time to keep track of all of that stuff.
00:39:30
Speaker
Plus, I personally feel that if you've already paid for your consulting and it's two years, three years in, and you know you've already paid for it, you're going to pick that phone up and call me.
00:39:41
Speaker
But if you think, well, I got to pay by the hour, $300.
00:39:45
Speaker
Let me see if I can fix this myself.
00:39:47
Speaker
Next thing you know, you're thankful of dead shrimp.
00:39:50
Speaker
Then you call me.
00:39:51
Speaker
I can't do a whole lot for you.
00:39:53
Speaker
Well, it's a fascinating business.
00:39:55
Speaker
I so appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.
00:39:58
Speaker
And it's RDM Aquaculture.
00:40:00
Speaker
I'll give the group contact information if they have any further questions, want to schedule some time with you if you're up for that.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah, well, let me send you a packet that we send out that gives you a breakdown of what you need for your building.
00:40:13
Speaker
It gives you a breakdown of all your costs, your continuing costs.
00:40:17
Speaker
It's a pretty good information packet.
00:40:19
Speaker
I can send that on to you as well.
00:40:21
Speaker
Beautiful, beautiful.
00:40:22
Speaker
All right.
00:40:22
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for your time.
00:40:23
Speaker
Really appreciate you come by and talking to us.
00:40:26
Speaker
Oh, no problem.
00:40:27
Speaker
If you have any other questions, don't hesitate.
00:40:28
Speaker
Thank you.