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🎙️Product Marketing: The Glue Holding Tech Together
31 Plays2 months ago
📄How do you make product marketing work in a B2B tech company?
In episode 3, we’re joined by Wendy Moore—VP of Marketing at Martello Technologies and longtime tech marketing pro. We unpack the reality of product marketing beyond the buzzwords. What skills matter most? Why do some product marketers succeed while others flame out? And what’s the biggest myth that drives Wendy nuts?
You’ll learn
- Why product messaging is your #1 differentiator
- How to enable sales without being their crutch
- Why consumption pricing flopped (and how they fixed it)
- How to spot and grow product marketing talent
- What most people still get wrong about the role
Whether you're in marketing, sales, or product, this one helps you understand how product marketing works when it’s done right.
Fresh content poured for you by Brendan Ziolo (Zinc Marketing) and Brian O’Grady (Search Warrant): crack a pint and join us for some sharp ideas and smarter strategy.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction with Wendy Moore
00:00:27
Brendan Ziolo
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the latest episode of the B2B Marketing Pint. I'm super happy to have Wendy Moore joining us today. and I go way back, as as Brian does as well with us.
00:00:40
Brendan Ziolo
We've worked together for a numerous number of years, different companies. Wendy's been in product marketing, technology marketing marketing for quite some time now.
00:00:51
Brendan Ziolo
at companies like Trend Micro and Mitel. She's currently the VP of Marketing at Martello Technologies. she just brings a great background, a ton of experience to our topic today, which is really, you know, how do you make product and solutions marketing work in technology companies?
Fun with Drinks and Pronunciation
00:01:08
Brendan Ziolo
What are some of the required skills? What works, what doesn't work? So I'm looking forward to this conversation and hope you are all too. Brian, what are you drinking today before we get started?
00:01:21
Brian O'Grady
Well, thank you for asking Brendan. And I should point out the full circle moment. I think you two are both partially responsible for me and my flirtation with product marketing decades ago.
00:01:30
Wendy Moore
Yes.
00:01:30
Brian O'Grady
I think Brendan, you recruited me to be a product marketer and Wendy, you were just always a better one than I was.
00:01:36
Brendan Ziolo
and And me too, and me too for the record.
00:01:36
Brian O'Grady
That said.
00:01:38
Brendan Ziolo
So yeah, oh yeah, she's she's she's got us covered there, or beat there.
00:01:43
Brian O'Grady
ah ah Today, we're we're drinking a and I'm going to try and pronounce this properly, Zyvik from Poland, opened with an opener from Garrison Brewing in Halifax, just to keep things a little more local.
00:01:56
Brian O'Grady
And I'm not positive it's that's how you pronounce it. My brother, who's a big fan, says Ziewicz, but he's not Polish either. So if there's a Polish listener who can let us know how to properly pronounce this, we'd appreciate it.
00:02:09
Brendan Ziolo
I am Polish, but I don't know how to pronounce it. So I'm of no use on this podcast whatsoever now.
00:02:12
Brian O'Grady
All right.
00:02:16
Brendan Ziolo
I'm, again, still not drinking, but enjoying a non-alcohol athletic. Oh, that's not the right way. Athletic Brewing Company beer. This was actually the first non-alcohol beer I tried.
00:02:28
Brendan Ziolo
Really good IPA. Tastes like a real one. So enjoying it quite a bit. And Wendy, what do you what do you have on your desk, I guess?
Hiring Preferences in Product Marketing
00:02:38
Wendy Moore
Well, I got to tell you, I was very disappointed. i went in the fridge to grab the beer I was going to which was called warrior woman, which is, I'm like, yes, that's awesome.
00:02:47
Brian O'Grady
hey
00:02:47
Wendy Moore
But all that was left there was kitsch light. So that's what we're on today. So
00:02:54
Brian O'Grady
Which sounds way better than none.
00:02:54
Brendan Ziolo
All right.
00:02:56
Wendy Moore
it i I hear you.
00:02:58
Brendan Ziolo
And we'll do a quick.
00:02:58
Wendy Moore
Am I the only one drinking out of a glass?
00:03:00
Brendan Ziolo
No, I am too.
00:03:00
Wendy Moore
Oh no, you are too.
00:03:01
Brian O'Grady
yeah
00:03:01
Wendy Moore
Cheers.
00:03:01
Brendan Ziolo
Quick. Oh, we're all here. Quick virtual cheers. And I guess we can get started.
00:03:08
Brian O'Grady
To a good podcast.
00:03:09
Brendan Ziolo
I need a drink first.
00:03:13
Brendan Ziolo
All right. Well, i'll I'll get the ball rolling here and then we can go from there. So I've been in technology for a number of years. We all have on this podcast. I'm sure many of our listeners have as well.
00:03:25
Brendan Ziolo
And there's kind of that, you know, a bunch of product marketing people at the company have been engineers, wanted to move over to marketing, wanted to try it, that type of thing. And then there's other more marketing people who have been marketers their whole life, probably have some industry background, perhaps, but maybe less technical, less engineer.
00:03:46
Brendan Ziolo
I guess, Wendy, do you have an opinion preference on, you know, what's better? What makes someone more successful in the field? Is there a path that's clearer or, you know, what are you looking for as you hire or as you explore product marketing experts?
00:03:56
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:04:03
Wendy Moore
So it's interesting. i I want to preface this with I've seen it be incredibly successful both ways, coming from an engineering background and coming from a marketing background. My preference is usually somebody who has done product marketing, because I figure you can pick up the technology and the industry easier than you can those those product marketing skills.
00:04:26
Wendy Moore
So that's always been my preference. But like I said, I've seen some wonderful SEs in particular come over and join the the dark side of marketing and joining us in in product marketing. So it can work well both ways.
00:04:40
Wendy Moore
I think the thing is you have to love technology, have that technical aptitude that you can pick it up easily. And you have to be good about getting in the mind of the customer and understanding your market.
00:04:53
Wendy Moore
Those are non-negotiables for a product marketing role.
00:04:54
Brian O'Grady
Thank
00:04:59
Brian O'Grady
That's pretty good insight and not a bad segue to where I wanted to go next, actually, because for, I'll admit, when I think product marketing, I don't always automatically think what comes next.
00:05:10
Brian O'Grady
I don't know for sure what comes next. I feel like I have a vague notion. I allegedly did it decades ago, but for the sake of the folks from other disciplines who are listening now, what are, what are the top things?
00:05:15
Wendy Moore
yeah
00:05:20
Brian O'Grady
I think you flirted with them there already, but what are the top responsibilities for a product marketer that you must have at a technology company?
Key Responsibilities in Product Marketing
00:05:28
Wendy Moore
So I think the number one thing is product messaging. So figuring out that really compelling story that connects very well with your target customers pain point, because once you develop that, it permeates everything that you do, of the copy, and assets that you develop, your website, even the sales tools and the presentations that your your sellers give. that is the number one foundational piece.
00:05:54
Wendy Moore
Pricing and packaging. oftentimes goes in product marketing, but sometimes it goes in product management. I got to confess, I prefer companies where it goes in product management because it's my least favorite thing to do.
00:06:07
Wendy Moore
other thing is enablement. So figuring out how you're going to enable your sellers, whether that is your direct sellers in your organization or your channel partners. you know What are the tools that they're going to need? How are you going to train them to be effective? are the vehicles that are going to go along with that? With partners, we've built a partner portal at Martello this year was all about bringing on our new partners and getting them up speed very quickly and their time to revenue, speeding that up as well.
00:06:38
Wendy Moore
then the other thing that comes into it is the promotional side of things. Product marketers are not great at figuring out you know what the promotional elements should be, i.e., should it be social?
00:06:49
Brian O'Grady
Thank
00:06:50
Wendy Moore
Should it be advertising in this online website? We're more about defining who is the target, the really, really well-defined ideal customer profile, the persona, and basically what the strategy is, what we're trying to make happen with them. You know, do we want to get them into a demo?
00:07:11
Wendy Moore
Do we want to get them into a product like growth journey? Whatever you want that to be, that's what you need to equip then your demand gen and communications teams with so they can go and do what they do so great and find the best places to to fish for for the the the ones that you're trying to find. so
00:07:30
Brendan Ziolo
yeah
00:07:31
Brian O'Grady
That's helpful.
00:07:32
Brendan Ziolo
Have you seen, where do you think competition and competitive analysis fits,
Competitive Analysis Responsibilities
00:07:36
Brendan Ziolo
Wendy? Like, is that in your product marketing? Is that one of those, like your pri and pricing packaging examples?
00:07:43
Brendan Ziolo
That's kind of bit of both or where have you seen that fit?
00:07:47
Wendy Moore
I see that as very much being a shared responsibility between product management and product marketing because product management can't develop a product if they don't understand who they need to beat out there and how they're going to differentiate themselves.
00:08:02
Wendy Moore
That then gets fed into the product marketing team who takes the the technical review adds to that kind of the differentiation and how to position against these competitors and oftentimes develop the competitive tools for the field as well.
00:08:18
Wendy Moore
So the cheat sheets and that kind of thing.
00:08:21
Brian O'Grady
Hmm.
00:08:22
Wendy Moore
Mm-hmm.
00:08:22
Brian O'Grady
You've brought back a memory. Maybe it's a traumatic memory. I'm not sure a memory for me as a, as a product marketer, I actually had to present, I guess was a form of sales enablement to the sales folks about competitive intelligence, which I felt at the time grossly unqualified for, but that didn't stop anybody.
00:08:34
Wendy Moore
who
00:08:39
Brian O'Grady
And I can remember, I thought, how am I going to communicate this to a group of salespeople who probably want to be somewhere else doing something else rather than listening to me. And my saving grace was remembering that typically Salespeople are very competitive.
00:08:52
Brian O'Grady
So I went to the bank machine before the presentation. I got as many $5 bills out as my bank account would allow. And I made the whole presentation a competition to see who could regurgitate the competitive facts back to me best.
00:09:03
Brian O'Grady
And that that worked.
00:09:04
Wendy Moore
Nice.
00:09:04
Brian O'Grady
That worked. So there's there's my only product marketing tip I can ever give you.
00:09:07
Wendy Moore
Nice. The evaluation is really critical. And I've i've learned this. The problem is in a lot of organizations, you're spread very thin and you're trying to do a lot of different things.
00:09:19
Wendy Moore
And things like competitive can fall by the wayside. Things like doing evaluations after you do enablement. Those are things that easily fall by the wayside. But every time I let it fall by the wayside, it bites me in the in the in the new, new ah ah excuse me, you know what, but it's really, it's critical. You can't do your positioning properly unless you understand the market.
00:09:39
Wendy Moore
And the thing that is also important if you're enabling the field is it's not a one-time thing. You need to be continually, listening to the market and what's happening so that, you know, if competitor A came out with a big announcement yesterday, you need to equip your field with a statement and how they can position against that. So it just never ends.
00:10:00
Wendy Moore
And unfortunately, most organizations don't resource it as well as it should be. think good competitive is a full time job, usually it's just something that happens on the side of the desk of the product marketing and the product management team. So.
A Personal Marketing Fail
00:10:16
Brendan Ziolo
At least in my experience, product marketing sits at an interesting like intersection point in a lot of organizations. you know, having a bit of fun here, if a product marketer went missing for a week, who would notice first? Is it a product team? Is it the sales team?
00:10:36
Brendan Ziolo
Is it the rest of the marketing team? Is it support? No one notices. No one knows the product marketer is gone. Like what's kind of your take in those relationships, I guess, more seriously?
00:10:48
Wendy Moore
So I've got two answers because I find it varies from organization to organization. The last company I was at, I would say it was your sellers because they were always on the phone to us wanting help with the you know this customer deal or this challenge they were dealing with or wanting to understand when this is coming in the product roadmap and and all kinds of things like that. And then I've been in other organizations where, the product team is a lot more aligned with the field and does a lot of that communication themselves.
00:11:19
Wendy Moore
And in those organizations, I find it's really the communications team, the marketing communications team, are trying to create content and they require your expertise and your ability to,
00:11:30
Wendy Moore
to kind of review a bunch of content, but also to outline, you know, how should we be positioning this story? What do our customers care about? So I know that's not one answer, but I find it that's the thing about product marketing. It's defined, I find very differently from one organization to the next.
00:11:46
Wendy Moore
So.
00:11:48
Brian O'Grady
I've actually felt that as as a copywriter, as a content person, when I'm asking questions like, well, who are we writing this for? and And what problem does it solve? And turns out everybody's looking for those answers from a product marketer.
00:11:59
Brian O'Grady
We need a product marketer to help us with those things.
00:12:01
Wendy Moore
exactly
00:12:02
Brian O'Grady
So that's very useful. I've got another one for you, which is, i think I think we're understanding through your help what a product marketer does and what those responsibilities are.
00:12:13
Brian O'Grady
But on the opposite end of it, there any examples in the marketplace you can think of that would help crystallize it in the minds of our listeners when there's been a product marketing fail, something that hits the market that clearly was wanting a product marketer and did not get one?
00:12:29
Wendy Moore
Okay, that's interesting. I was actually thinking about talking about my one of my own product marketing fails. It's not going to be a public one that everyone knows about, but...
00:12:38
Brian O'Grady
Well, like that better. Yeah, let's do that.
00:12:38
Brendan Ziolo
Well, it will be now.
00:12:39
Wendy Moore
that
00:12:40
Brendan Ziolo
It will be now, Publix.
00:12:41
Wendy Moore
perfect Exactly.
00:12:43
Wendy Moore
And this, I think, demonstrates, and it taught me a big lesson, that you need to consider the entire a journey of your customers to understand...
00:12:55
Wendy Moore
how things are going to work out. So I'll give you an example. I was working at a company where we started putting our products into aws marketplace. So we know there's a few um scalar marketplaces out there today, and and this is the one we were working in.
00:13:10
Wendy Moore
And one of the things that we did that we thought was going to be just so impactful on the market
Evolution of Product Marketing Strategies
00:13:16
Wendy Moore
and that we were having customers ask for, and it was going to be fantastic, was the ability to do consumption pricing.
00:13:23
Wendy Moore
So only pay for what you use as you use it, right? And so we got this all ready to go. We had everything listed and posted. We rolled it out in our organization and we thought it was just going to go great because we had so many customers asking for it.
00:13:39
Brian O'Grady
Sounds great.
00:13:39
Wendy Moore
You know, we're moving. Yeah, it didn't play out that way. Eventually it did when we fixed things. But the big blind spot that we had was how our sellers were compensated. essentially we put it out there and our sellers were used to selling annual subscriptions.
00:13:55
Wendy Moore
So they'd sell it and then they'd get their compensation on the full year's value. You know, they'd get a nice big check when they wait when they did the deal and it was done with. As soon as you move to consumption, you get paid monthly.
00:14:07
Wendy Moore
So they were at the beginning starting to get like, you know, checks for $1.35 or maybe not that bad, but it wasn't that big bang. So they're like, none of them wanted to sell it. Right. And after digging in a little bit, we figured out like that was our number one problem. And as soon as we Came up with some creative ways to fix that.
00:14:26
Wendy Moore
Then things really took off. So it's it just goes to show problems can stem from anywhere. And I think that's the biggest challenge is whenever a customer is interacting with your organization and there's just so, so many ways, all of it needs to work favorably.
00:14:42
Wendy Moore
And all parties need to be in send properly in order for it to go smoothly. So I know that's not a big new Coke example. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those, but it's just an example of the types of things that can go wrong.
00:14:55
Brian O'Grady
Well, I still think that's a great example.
00:14:56
Brendan Ziolo
Thank you.
00:14:57
Brian O'Grady
Good one, because honestly, when I have business meetings, think people think maybe I'm more mercenary than I actually am, but I always actually want to know what side everybody's bread is buttered on.
00:15:09
Brian O'Grady
So I know what everybody needs to get out of this conversation in order to be motivated to make it a success. Until I know that I'm not not so comfortable.
00:15:14
Wendy Moore
yeah
00:15:17
Wendy Moore
ah ah Absolutely. And that's smart on your part, because there's often I find within one organization conflicting objectives. Right. And it's it's the tough to deal with those, but it's better to know about it than to kind of walk into a trap. So.
00:15:34
Brian O'Grady
Absolutely.
00:15:35
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:15:36
Brendan Ziolo
So i'm I'm going back a ah few years, Wendy, but, you know, in our earlier startup days, let's put it that way, there were opportunities that or there was times, I should say, when, you know, the product was half built, the pitch deck was, let's say, more fiction than fact, for instance.
00:15:55
Wendy Moore
yeah
00:15:56
Brendan Ziolo
has product marketing changed? Has it gotten easier? Is it a company size thing or like, are we going to, are we going to shatter a bunch of illusions here and tell everyone it's all fiction still?
00:16:08
Wendy Moore
it's not all fiction i i won't say that but i it has not changed that part of it
00:16:09
Brendan Ziolo
don't How are things made? Yeah.
00:16:14
Brian O'Grady
Yeah.
00:16:15
Wendy Moore
as Especially in the days of SaaS, you know, first to market is just such a huge advantage that everybody goes just absolutely as quickly as they can. And so that means you're going with a V1 product that probably isn't very complete or addressing all of the needs with the plans to fill it in as we go.
00:16:32
Wendy Moore
don't think that's changed at all. And I've worked in, you know, companies that were making less than a million in a year and companies that were making over two billion in a year.
00:16:42
Wendy Moore
And it was the same at both. So I don't think it's a function of size. It's just the nature of the way software is delivered these days, like being quick and fast is is really critical.
00:16:54
Wendy Moore
And the other thing that has changed, though, so, so much is the strategies that you have available to you for your go to market. So, you know, I remember the days when, oh, we're going to do some direct mail that we weren't even doing email marketing yet. Oh, my goodness. I'm I'm old for sure.
00:17:12
Wendy Moore
But now your options, you know, you can you can come up with product led growth strategies where you get a premium offering out there and just gradually sell more and more to them. There's, you know, your digital strategies. There's a whole bunch of really interesting partnership strategies that you can take advantage of.
00:17:28
Wendy Moore
and And, you know, 20, 25 years ago, there wasn't as many options to to consider. So I'm actually happy for that because it helps us to better tailor a solution to the problem that you're dealing with. So.
00:17:43
Brian O'Grady
I don't know whether to feel happy or sad that it hasn't changed that much.
00:17:46
Brendan Ziolo
Thank you.
00:17:47
Brian O'Grady
but that's good good insight.
00:17:47
Wendy Moore
but
00:17:48
Brian O'Grady
I can tell you that what's old is new again. our, our direct mail is so such an old tactic that it's now cool again. yeah.
00:17:54
Wendy Moore
I hear that.
00:17:56
Brian O'Grady
And, uh, we actually got bizarrely good results when we did all these wonderful digital things and just threw in some direct mail and guess what? Everybody commented on the direct.
00:18:06
Wendy Moore
exactly.
00:18:07
Brian O'Grady
Um, back to product marketing though.
Debunking Marketing Myths
00:18:09
Wendy Moore
me
00:18:10
Brian O'Grady
Let's talk myth busting. there's There's probably most disciplines have some assumptions out there in the marketplace that are made by people who don't do the job. As soon as they hear it, they think they know, but maybe they don't know.
00:18:22
Brian O'Grady
What's the biggest myth about product marketing that you bump into that drives you nuts and you would like to slay today?
00:18:29
Wendy Moore
This is by far my most annoying myth that there is. In fact, I had a big discussion about it with somebody who had the myth in their head earlier in the week. Essentially that marketing makes things pretty,
00:18:42
Wendy Moore
old
00:18:43
Wendy Moore
I don't do any of that, right? Like we focus on the strategy of how to position and how to message that's going to produce the best results, right?
00:18:52
Wendy Moore
And how to hit on those pain points and solve them for your customers in in a way, that's going to matter to them most, and then figuring out how are you going to demonstrate that you solve those problems? Is it, developing um cost savings model or is it targeting, a bunch of different customers in different industries and building a strategy of how to leverage them as spokespeople,
00:19:17
Wendy Moore
case studies and videos and speaking at conferences on your behalf and that kind of thing. So it's whenever anybody says, you guys fix up this deck for me, this PowerPoint deck?
00:19:28
Wendy Moore
I'm like, seriously?
00:19:28
Brian O'Grady
Often Polish.
00:19:31
Wendy Moore
And it's, yeah, that's one of the things because we do so, so much more than that. And it's hard really to define the product market marketing role. I mean, I gave you the big buckets of what we do, that's There's like every day is something different. Every month is something different. Every quarter, like it just continuously, you have to look at things with new eyes and and figure out what's going to be the most impactful and help you to get your results.
00:19:57
Wendy Moore
So.
00:19:58
Brian O'Grady
Okay, I feel a metaphor coming on based on your description and I shouldn't try these live, but here we go. Would product marketing be the skeleton of the marketing plan though, before it gets to the content writers and the designers and the web people?
00:20:03
Wendy Moore
Oh, good Lord. Yeah.
00:20:11
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:20:12
Brian O'Grady
but Maybe, and we, because that's where I spend most of my time, we'd be the the flesh on the bones or maybe even the clothing, but product marketers might provide the skeleton.
00:20:14
Wendy Moore
no
00:20:18
Wendy Moore
Absolutely. Yeah. To take this a little further, I probably shouldn't, but we provide the bones.
00:20:24
Brendan Ziolo
Oh, boy.
00:20:27
Wendy Moore
You guys get us to the right funeral home.
00:20:32
Brendan Ziolo
Oh.
00:20:34
Brian O'Grady
Oh, you have been involved in a number of my launches. I can tell.
00:20:37
Brendan Ziolo
All
00:20:39
Wendy Moore
dear.
00:20:40
Brendan Ziolo
right. Well, I'm not going to continue the metaphor here, but...
00:20:43
Wendy Moore
Good, I'm glad.
00:20:45
Brendan Ziolo
I was about to, but yeah, going let it go.
Advice for Aspiring Product Marketers
00:20:47
Brendan Ziolo
But in, you know, for someone new or someone looking to go into product marketing, you know, we've talked about, you know, again, what it does, some of the myths, some of the fail, like what's kind of your advice to them, you know,
00:21:02
Brendan Ziolo
run away or do this or, you know, how can they enter the field? I guess that's two questions. Sorry. So yeah, what's your advice for someone wanting to get in?
00:21:10
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:21:10
Brendan Ziolo
And then any tips for anyone looking to either transition or get into the field out of, you know, another industry, out of school, whatever the case may be?
00:21:21
Wendy Moore
Yeah. So you have to love technology if you want to do product marketing in the technology space. So if spending time figuring out and really trying to understand technology and how it fits with your customer isn't something that you absolutely love, probably consider something else.
00:21:38
Wendy Moore
if it is something that you really want to do the key thing is to get your foot in the door into either a marketing organization or even like I said a sales engineering role those are both great great paths to get yourself into product marketing I know i have stolen away many sales engineers from my colleagues over the years to bring them into product marketing roles
00:22:03
Wendy Moore
As I said earlier, i think anybody who's got the product marketing skills can figure out the technology and the space that they're in. Now, if I was fresh out of school, I would be looking for some sort of an internship program.
00:22:17
Wendy Moore
company I was at a couple of years ago, Trend Micro, they had this amazing program where we brought in graduates of a couple of schools, a marketing program, and every six months they rotated to a different marketing role.
00:22:30
Wendy Moore
So they might start out in marketing communications, go to events, end up, and I would usually try to pick the ones that I i had seen kind of some potential there with, pick them to come into product marketing in their third or fourth.
00:22:43
Wendy Moore
part of that. Getting your foot in the door is everything, right? Because you need to get somebody's interest that goes, hey, that could be somebody who has the right skills to develop into a product marketer.
00:22:57
Wendy Moore
Because every time you want to hire somebody in product marketing, it it's tends to be a very challenging task, at least locally where we are in Ottawa,
00:23:08
Wendy Moore
There's some product marketing skill, but not a ton. you're always looking, okay, if I don't have, you know, an actual ready to go product marketer here, are there any kind of people that I can pull in and develop, right? And like I said, I look for curiosity, technical aptitude, also being very driven and not requiring a lot of handholding, just going, I think we could do this running with it, you know, so...
00:23:34
Wendy Moore
Did i answer your whole question or was there another part to it?
00:23:34
Brian O'Grady
Cool.
00:23:37
Brendan Ziolo
No, no, that's no, that was, that was good.
00:23:37
Wendy Moore
Okay.
00:23:39
Brendan Ziolo
That was great insights. And I still, I, i don't think I've ever thought of the SE side of things, but it's makes a ton of sense.
The T-Shaped Marketer
00:23:47
Brendan Ziolo
Yeah. I just, I'm trying to think now if I've ever worked with any product marketers who are SEs, but I can definitely see the fit now that you, now that you've planted the seed.
00:23:48
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:23:55
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:23:56
Brendan Ziolo
Cause yeah, they'd have great, obviously some good technology and understanding and and like that, but the customer experience and the sales experience would be invaluable.
00:24:01
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:24:06
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:24:07
Brendan Ziolo
I can imagine as I think it through. So that's great tips just there alone.
00:24:12
Wendy Moore
And if you're ever looking for an SE, I've had it work out really well and I've had it not work out at all. The thing you and really, really need to screen for is like strong communication ability.
00:24:25
Wendy Moore
Just if they don't have that in addition to the technical aptitude, they're really going to struggle. So. Yeah.
00:24:31
Brian O'Grady
That's a good tip. Another idea you've reminded me of is one of our other guests. We we talked about recruiting and team building. And one of the ideas we got to was what they call the T-shaped marketer, where you you go broad, a lot of different disciplines, but you go deep in one.
00:24:44
Wendy Moore
Yeah.
00:24:45
Brian O'Grady
And it's that sounded not unlike what you were just describing there for that ah internship program.
00:24:46
Wendy Moore
Exactly.
00:24:50
Brian O'Grady
Let's try them all. one One you like most, go deep on it.
00:24:51
Wendy Moore
Exactly.
00:24:54
Wendy Moore
Because the reality is, i mean, you're going to be working with all of the functions in marketing, right? And to actually have done the job, it gives you that kind of empathy that when Marcom says, sorry, we're be able to get that to you for two weeks, you you understand that they've got a line of 50 people trying to get something out the door, right?
00:25:15
Wendy Moore
So it's good from an empathy empathy perspective, but it's also good in terms of as you're developing your your product marketing plans, you can be thinking that about that a little bit and go, oh, I have this great offer idea for you the marketing communications team. Like maybe it's some sort of assessment or something like that. So the more experience you've got, the broader experience, i I think it makes you a better product marketer for sure. Yeah.
00:25:44
Brendan Ziolo
any Any final questions, Brian? Anything we forgot to ask Wendy?
00:25:48
Brian O'Grady
i I think I learned a lot more.
00:25:49
Brendan Ziolo
Anything we can put her on the spot for? Yeah.
00:25:52
Brian O'Grady
Well, I learned more in the last 25, 26 minutes about product marketing than I think I knew before, which is alarming that I i did the job for a little while.
00:25:59
Wendy Moore
but
00:26:00
Brendan Ziolo
well,
Conclusion and Listener Encouragement
00:26:00
Brendan Ziolo
we we really appreciate your time today, Wendy, and and joining us. And thank you so much for that.
00:26:06
Wendy Moore
I like
00:26:07
Brendan Ziolo
And I, as Brian said, he learned a lot. I know I always learn something from you both today and in our ongoing engagements and interactions.
00:26:16
Wendy Moore
that.
00:26:17
Brendan Ziolo
So appreciate that. And to our listeners, i hope you enjoyed the episode. Subscribe, like, share, comment, all those fun things.
00:26:27
Brian O'Grady
Do all the things.
00:26:27
Brendan Ziolo
And stay tuned for our next episode.
00:26:32
Wendy Moore
Excellent.
00:26:32
Brian O'Grady
Thank you, Wendy.
00:26:33
Wendy Moore
Cheers.