Transcript
Tab Lewis: So welcome back to the Woman of God series. We are so excited that you have joined us. um For the next episode, we are talking about in this series. what it means to be a woman of God and just how that translates into real life, into every area.
Tab Lewis: of our life. And it's one thing to talk about your faith, but it's ah another thing for you to live it out. in your closest relationships, in your homes, um and in the place and the places where ah you are interacting with the people that you know best. and so um For so many reasons, though. one of the places that um Where I have found, and I know Amy has too.
Tab Lewis: One of the places that God does his deepest work in us as women is in our. Marriage. Now, if you are not married and you are listening in today. um Please do not.
Tab Lewis: Leave us because I know that. um that God still has something for you. And one thing that I have found in my own marriage is that Um. As God has taught me.
Tab Lewis: more about him and more about myself and more about my spouse, that has translated into every other. relationship. in my life. And just like.
Tab Lewis: You know, Amy, you and I have talked about that, like everything that I've learned, has I've been able to take that and implement it in how I interact with my children. how I interact with friends and even acquaintances, you know, just all areas of life that translates. um but Marriage truly does have a way of revealing.
Tab Lewis: You.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And who you actually are. It teaches you about sacrifice. um forgiveness and humility and grace. and communication.
Tab Lewis: um And honestly, if we're just being honest, which I know you and I are going to today as we chat about this, Amy, um it teaches you about how much you still. need. to grow.
Tab Lewis: um And we'll get into that, you know. um further as we talk more but it really just teaches you so much about you and what um what the Lord wants to continue.
Tab Lewis: to do in you. So we thought we would just talk about all of that today with you guys and just share. um what we have learned, not from a perspective that we have it all figured out because we certainly do not. um But just from a perspective of.
Tab Lewis: Two women who have been in this long enough. To know that. Marriage is beautiful. but it is also hard.
Tab Lewis: and um It's holy. It can be funny. It can be extremely frustrating. but definitely worth. fighting for. So today we want to talk, about Amy and I want to talk to you about what it looks like to fight well and to love hard.
Tab Lewis: And. um to dream big and to stay together for. the long call. So, um Amy, I just thank you again for joining us. This is so awesome. I'm so excited about all that is going to come.
Tab Lewis: um How long before we like really dive in and go deep?
Amy Hickman: okay
Tab Lewis: ah How long have you and Jeff been married?
Amy Hickman: So we will have our 32nd. wedding anniversary. in December. Love this year, so.
Tab Lewis: Awesome.
Amy Hickman: than me.
Tab Lewis: I love it.
Amy Hickman: been married a while
Tab Lewis: December, your December.
Amy Hickman: the 17th
Tab Lewis: Okay.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: Yeah. And Chris and I have we have we'll be married 31.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: years in December. Ours is December the 2nd. Um. A lot of mouths. lot of miles behind us, but also still growing.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. That's right. Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: So, so, so much um and super grateful for the gift of marriage and, and all that it has. you know taught me about myself and um
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: In so many different ways. what what would you What would be the one thing that you would say that marriage has taught you? About yourself.
Amy Hickman: Um. I would say. ah That I'm selfish.
Tab Lewis: but
Amy Hickman: i'm like do i want to say that do i want to admit to this but yeah i I am selfish and i I'll tell you, I never considered myself a... Like...
Amy Hickman: I would have characterized myself as a selfish person when You know, growing up. Um, Getting married. it tends to highlight things in you you know that you're having to learn to live with this other person and even you know we got married I think I was 21 and We're just, you know.
Amy Hickman: young, probably immature. We didn't think we were, I'm sure, but It highlighted just how selfish and probably set in my ways I i was. and So it's been... a lot of learning how to just live and love sacrificially.
Amy Hickman: And it has been. probably the hardest thing that i've ever done but Hands down, the God's greatest gift to my life has been marriage.
Tab Lewis: Yeah. yeah i definitely can resonate with that ah you know in so many different ways and Chris and I married young too. He's just a tiny bit older than me.
Amy Hickman: a
Tab Lewis: but um which we laugh about because I'm like, I'll always be younger than you.
Amy Hickman: Yes, I need Jeff.
Tab Lewis: um But. Yeah, but i was we were young. I was 18.
Amy Hickman: Wow.
Tab Lewis: when we got married. And so. um Just. literally grew up together. I mean. Honestly, still growing up together.
Tab Lewis: right but i think i'm always going to be growing up in some way um you know and
Amy Hickman: Yes, that is right. oh
Tab Lewis: Man. Questions like that really stump me sometimes. yeah what's the What's the one thing you've learned?
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: um because There's been so many things. that we have learned, that I've learned about myself. um you know through marriage and you know there's so many beautiful Things about getting married young.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: and, you know, young in life because I feel like um if you're blessed with longevity you know and the gift of living a long life,
Amy Hickman: What?
Tab Lewis: um you can in a lot of ways learn things earlier.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: you know, where you have more depth and and bandwidth and opportunity to um i don't I hate using the the sentiment, get things right, but walk in a better way.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: longer with each other. and um And I feel like. That is what getting married younger. This.
Tab Lewis: at this stage of marriage you won't say that all throughout the different stages right because if we were and We were to go back and break it up in different stages.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. Yep.
Tab Lewis: I would be telling you a different story I would have a different outlook and perspective
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: in each of those stages. um but You know, that's a part of the transformation. You know, when you talk about being a woman of God in our relationship with God.
Tab Lewis: um If you you want to use a ah more theological term, sanctification, which is.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: is really becoming. um In your identity in Christ.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: And that is a process. And. It's the same in your relationships, you know. in your marriage. You are becoming, you have you have you have a choice.
Tab Lewis: You can either become. or you can... succumb.
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: to your circumstance, right? You can.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: you you can be better. Or. you can choose your own path.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And... I can tell you from experience, choosing my own path never worked out well. It never ended well.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: um You know. it It just did it. Um... Yeah, it's really hard for me to narrow down just one thing.
Tab Lewis: because There are so many.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: different. things I think what I would say. to someone who maybe um maybe I'll just, because of that, because I'm having a hard time finding the one thing, maybe right now I'll speak to young women.
Amy Hickman: right
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: ah women who are you know, in a dating relationship, or maybe they are, maybe you are, um engaged or you're newly married.
Tab Lewis: And you're thinking. I'm so in love with this person. um Which is good. i think you should be as much as you possibly can i think that there should be some some true affection and attraction there but and you're in this you know what I would call the honeymoon phase for a lot of people where you have all of these
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: dreams and expectations of what marriage is going to look like. um Also not saying that's a bad thing. You know, these are fun times and you should be excited and expectant and looking forward to.
Tab Lewis: to what is to come. I think my biggest encouragement would be. Hold those expectations loosely.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: because You're human. and your future. spouse, husband. is human.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And you are about to take two different worlds. And you're about to collide them together. and there are going to be days where it's going to feel like a hard crash
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: And you're going to be like. What in the world?
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: did I just do? What did I get myself into? And then there are going to be days where you actually are. You're floating on a cloud. You feel like this is amazing. This is everything that I had hoped it would be and expected it to be. and you know it's an ebb and flow and so If I could say anything to you right now, hold those expectations loosely.
Tab Lewis: have Have solid. foundation or Believes. And. convictions.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: you know, about what you desire and want and where you want to go. and Hopefully. You are. in some premarital counseling or you are going to be going into premarital counseling before you get married.
Tab Lewis: Highly recommend that.
Amy Hickman: Absolutely. Yes.
Tab Lewis: Um, But, you know, hopefully you're talking about some of those things already and you already have those things. you're grounded in those beliefs. But you know what?
Tab Lewis: Even with that, things are going to come up. that you didn't expect.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And you are going to be faced with... what What do we do? How do we come to being on the same page? You're not always going to agree 100 % on everything, but you can still be on the same page.
Tab Lewis: So. I think that would be my biggest encouragement right now. and and Chris and I went to this marriage conference years ago and they use this explanation and we often use this a lot when we're doing some.
Tab Lewis: some marriage counseling with people is. You have different different places and stages you can be in marriage. You can be back to back. You can be side to side or you can be face to face.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And I believe God's design is for you to be face to face.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: And that's your goal in marriage. And whenever you're in places where you're not there. The goal is to come together and to get on to the same page on how how can we.
Tab Lewis: Get there.
Tab Lewis: So...
Tab Lewis: What did you think about that, Amy?
Amy Hickman: Yeah, I mean... I was just... thinking as you were talking you know so much of going into marriage for me as a young woman there was a lot of just romanticizing Like...
Amy Hickman: everything. And. i do believe wholeheartedly there is a high degree of calling to be married do you know i felt the same way about even becoming um a parent, you know, they're knowing that you are called.
Amy Hickman: hold such weight in it that You know, I think it's good to think about that a lot because you're. you're taking it seriously, you're...
Amy Hickman: you know, really committing to be in it for the long haul. Because the the whole idea of calling just, it does hold so much weight. But I did go into it romanticizing.
Amy Hickman: Every day. You know, it was just going to be.
Tab Lewis: Mm -hmm.
Amy Hickman: um everything that television portrayed it to be that romance novels ah portrayed it to be And yet I was this woman who was desiring to pursue God. and my marriage and i was leaving him out of the equation a lot simply because ah He had answered my prayer and he had brought this man into my life that I had been praying for.
Amy Hickman: And it was almost like. Okay, I got. You know that the answer I was hoping for and it carried with With it, this idea like you're you're just not going to work for.
Amy Hickman: a great marriage you know because everything's just going to be so easy now and it wasn't and um It almost sounds silly. to look back on those days and think you know, how much time I wasted just really...
Amy Hickman: trying to live some dream life. And I was living a dream life, but it just didn't look the way that I thought.
Tab Lewis: Okay.
Amy Hickman: it was going to look like. ah It was a lot of hard work, a lot of putting each other first. and Most of all, you know realizing that unless we put God first in each of our lives individually, it was not even it wasn't going to work. you know that Um, we had to grapple. for God to keep that place.
Amy Hickman: in our life so You know, my encouragement to ah young women today is go into it with your eyes wide open. You know, yes. Go.
Amy Hickman: premarital counseling is so needed it is so uh it's a gift to your marriage you know i think Um... you know, we always tell couples that we counsel, it's like, think about just the time of dating, you're in a season of preparation for engagement. And when you're engaged, you're in a season of preparation for marriage. And so there.
Amy Hickman: um There is always a growing of ourself. a teachability no matter what area of life we're talking about and so you know i feel like um It is.
Amy Hickman: a gift to marriage. when you seek out that counsel to really make the space is what you're doing. to say yeah I'm gonna put God first in my life we're going to put God first in our marriage. and ah going into it with your eyes wide open like that is um it's It's necessary. and ah it it'll be something that you'll look back on, I truly believe.
Amy Hickman: and be thankful. that you did uh go into it knowing that Everything's not butterflies and...
Tab Lewis: Okay.
Amy Hickman: roses and, you know, it is. It is truly hard work. And anything worth having. Hard work is required.
Amy Hickman: and so you know that perspective shift for me It was everything. and just just living in the reality of day -to -day and the ebbs and flows, as you put it.
Tab Lewis: ye Absolutely. you know i think chris and i we We... early on. You know, in this, year're you're you're in so much of discovering.
Tab Lewis: In those beginning years of marriage, because. You. Even if you've dated for 10 years.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: or you dated for six months and then you got married, you could never really fully know someone until you are.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: in the trenches. with someone, you know, when you really want to know.
Amy Hickman: Right. Right.
Tab Lewis: your spouse.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: then suffer with your spouse.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: You know, if you really want to know your spouse then um go through loss
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: or you know, a job loss. ah you know the death of a loved one um you know, disappointment. you know whatever it could be That's when you really.
Tab Lewis: are in. The knowing, you know, that's when you really know the depths of of of your spouse. and um Bye. You can't manufacture that. You can't fabricate that. I cannot share something and you, Amy, can't share something that can. FULLY.
Tab Lewis: Prepare. someone. for what's to come in a marriage. um We obviously and certainly can say, hey. These are the things that. you know we've navigated through uh let me let me share with you The good.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: you know. And. um the hard and let me share with you how. God has used that to make me more holy as a woman.
Tab Lewis: and then to strengthen our marriage and make it more holy. you know, as a couple. and you know, going going back to those beginning phases you know i look back to
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: those seasons and think. I had moments. you know i would be lying. If I didn't say I had moments of, oh my gosh, I don't even know if this, I don't know if we're going to make it.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: i don't know if this I don't know if this is going to work. And I remember we got to... Five years of marriage, which see which seems to be, you know. a pivotal year.
Tab Lewis: of marriage.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: um You've had just enough time for some hardship to really happen. um and to navigate through differences and all of that and we got there and we were like okay we need some help
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: You know, we need to invite a third party into this to help us get back on the same page because we're not doing that well for one another. and It was in that. um you know, through some really deep introspective work.
Tab Lewis: And this is the thing. It's like when you go into marriage counseling, if you've if you've never been before and you're a first timer, or maybe you can resonate if you have, but you you go in this room and you're like, I can't wait to tell them like.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: all the things that he is and all the things that he isn't. And this you know they're going to be on my side and they're going to speak all this truth and everything. I'm going to walk away and everything's going to, I'm going to feel so good and so much better. And really what ends up happening, which is the way that it should be.
Tab Lewis: is... You are like looking in a mirror. And it's like, okay, let me look at me. Because when I take care of me.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And I work on the things that I need to work on in me.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: And I think you said this in the beginning, are you alluded to this in the beginning, Amy, then I can turn outward. And I can be all that I need to be.
Tab Lewis: for this. this man, this individual that I've I have. made a covenant with that I have said. Now I choose you.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I choose you and the good and the bad and the hard and the holy, all the things. And I will keep. choosing you.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: No matter what. and One thing that we discovered in that was. And we often have lead people into this, you know, in counseling or if we're just, you know, discipleship walking with other couples.
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: is we had to and I think this is a's a a it's a head thing and it's a heart thing is take leaving off the table. So like you're in those hard moments and you're like, I don't know if this is going to work.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: I i said I was in it for the long haul, but I don't know if I'm in it for the long haul.
Amy Hickman: Amen.
Tab Lewis: And so. Removing that option.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: you know, you know, no, we're in this for the long haul. I'm going to keep choosing you.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: Even when I don't want to, even if you're even if you're not responding me to me in a way that is compelling me to want to choose you.
Amy Hickman: who
Tab Lewis: because I have made a covenant with you.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: I am going to keep choosing you and I'm going to take leaving off of the table. That was a difference maker for us because I think both of us were kind of hanging on to that.
Amy Hickman: Absolutely.
Tab Lewis: And I'm not saying that. You know, you I feel like you always have to give a disclaimer here in the nature of society today. If you are in harm, if you are being.
Tab Lewis: harmed in any way. um you know or anything like that that's a we would be having a different conversation
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And I'm talking about two people who've made a covenant before the Lord who are like. i'm a man of god i'm a woman of god and i want to honor god well in my marriage um You got to take it leaving off the table.
Amy Hickman: Absolutely. Yeah, I actually had that conversation just this week even is that. you know as a christ follower and you have your ultimate goal to you want to live set apart and that means you know we're We're not seeking to look like the world, but yet the reality in which we live is that the world is tugging at us at every turn. And the world is saying, when things get hard.
Amy Hickman: You should quit. you you should leave. And, you know, when I think back to early days of getting married, what we were doing without maybe even.
Amy Hickman: being consciously aware. was we were formulating a game plan. And. We will go into any situation with a game plan.
Amy Hickman: And you we want to be successful in our jobs. So, you know, we have goals. We we set markers to achieve. we want to do well in school you know we we buy our school planners, you know, and do all the things that are going to ensure that we're successful. that
Amy Hickman: We don't fall behind. And yet, you know, we don't really take that same approach to our marriages often as ah to sit down to have, you know, intentional conversation of this is what we're going to do to ensure.
Amy Hickman: that we're successful and at the top of the list. of the list is a hundred percent you know divorce is off the table we're not quitting each other um uh, I believe another thing the world says to us is.
Amy Hickman: even when we're you know in this process of engagement and leading up to marriage, we're hearing the word covenant, that it is a covenant.
Amy Hickman: But yet. Often it's treated as a commitment, a contract, which is easily broken.
Tab Lewis: Mm -hmm.
Amy Hickman: And, you know, covenant, again, I love words that hold weight. It holds the... hope and the promise. in that word that ah you're not just making covenant with each other but you are making covenant with god and to be a woman of God who is...
Amy Hickman: Quote -unquote, you know successful And her marriage is.
Tab Lewis: yeah
Amy Hickman: That's the non -negotiable is is the father, you know, is that he is going to be the.
Tab Lewis: Mhm.
Amy Hickman: center point. um of our marriage and He is where we start our game plan. that you know looking back on it. I think you know we were getting there. We were making baby steps in some of the decisions that we made.
Amy Hickman: you know when It seems... kind of odd to to even look at it that that way because you know we knew right early on we were Jeff was called to be a pastor. you know We were living in ministry. you know Don't you know that God's going to be the center of your marriage? But that's exactly the area of our life that.
Amy Hickman: you know, the enemy wanted to come after is I'm going to come after your marriage. I'm going to make you. doubt each other not trust each other um you know and that was an overarching theme in our marriage but there would be days that Well, I don't. I don't.
Amy Hickman: want to trust you you know because somebody else hurt me so why should I trust you you know and you deflect and um So having that game plan in play. was so crucial for us and it still is.
Tab Lewis: Absolutely. I love that. we um Chris and I. ah We always say. We're on the same team.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: We're on the same team.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: Don't forget that.
Amy Hickman: that's right
Tab Lewis: You know, it's it's. We may not be. in full agreement here or we may not. you know, be thinking that we get there in the same way, but we're on the same team and we cannot forget that.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm. Let's go.
Tab Lewis: and ah ah you know. I love that you reminded us of the covenant.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: the the ultimate covenant, which is our covenant as believers as women of God is number one with our Father, with our Creator.
Amy Hickman: Mhm. That's right.
Tab Lewis: And. the the The truth. The absolute truth that I keep going back to in that is that when, when God. is the lover of my soul when he when he's the ultimate lover of my soul and he sits on the throne of my heart.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I, and the more that that becomes. Not just. Just ah a thought that I have or a sentiment or this you know language that we tend to use in the world of.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: of of being a Christian.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: But when it really becomes um a reality for for me when it becomes something that I live. and and breathe from the inside out, then.
Tab Lewis: I don't put my husband on the throne of my heart.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I don't hold him in a place, in a position. that he doesn't belong.
Amy Hickman: Alright.
Tab Lewis: I don't... have this expectation that he's going to fulfill me and complete me. in a way that he was never created to do.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: He compliments me.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: Because that's the way my father created it to be, but he doesn't complete me. and
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: You know, I You hear these. um these terms sometimes where you complete me or um You know, I can't. um losing my train of thought now what some other ones are, but.
Tab Lewis: um at the at the end of the day He doesn't come. Chris does not complete me.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: He compliments. What the what? My father has. created in me. And it's beautiful.
Amy Hickman: All right.
Tab Lewis: It's beautiful today.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: What we share today. is beyond anything I could have ever imagined.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: You know, it's beyond what you were talking about, dreaming as a little girl. You know, you romanticized what your marriage would be like.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And I remember playing Barbies. in my bedroom and i was either playing church with my burpees or getting married.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: Those was were the two things.
Amy Hickman: ah but ah
Tab Lewis: And I remember thinking, oh, it's a fairy tale.
Amy Hickman: You know. Yeah.
Tab Lewis: you know even even being 18 and entering into marriage i was expecting the fairy tale
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: That was. That was the... image and vision that I had then. and But when that... is put in its proper place when that perspective follows the passion
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Tab Lewis: And... the the path and the plan that our creator has for marriage. It's. greater than a fairy tale.
Amy Hickman: Truly. mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: you know, and Now. I don't want to paint a picture that's not. We share what we share today in marriage. because we fought for it.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: We share today. what we share in marriage, because we die we choose. to data ourselves.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: daily. You know, which is a part of being a follower of Jesus and being his disciple.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: We got to die to ourselves daily. Take up the cross that he's asked us to bear, whatever he's entrusted and put in our hands. And choose to follow him.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: with that and it's the same in marriage. You know, and so. I mean, we share our story All the time. Hopefully you and I will have some opportunity here at the end to share specific stories, but we've been to hell and back.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: literally, in our marriage. and In all of that. Taking each other off the throne of our heart and keeping.
Tab Lewis: God, where he belongs in the place he belongs, him being the one that we run to first so that we can run together towards him.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: um And in choosing every single day. Now we're going to keep coming back because we're a team.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Um, And I can say. it is It is far beyond what you could ever dream or imagine. It can be. Amazing.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: If you, if you stay in the fight. And you fight for it.
Amy Hickman: that's right
Tab Lewis: And you learn how to fight well. You can do that too.
Amy Hickman: Exactly. Yes.
Tab Lewis: Let me tell you all the ways you don't want to fight.
Amy Hickman: ah Yeah, exactly.
Tab Lewis: ah finish
Amy Hickman: ah
Tab Lewis: which i guess we can kind of segue into that you know
Amy Hickman: but
Tab Lewis: One thing that Chris and I have learned over the years. um He has the ability, and I think this is true for a lot of men. He can compartmentalize.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And we can have a really hard conversation. We can get in a fight, which we don't do as much anymore as we used to do because we've learned how to fight well.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm Yeah.
Tab Lewis: um But we can get in a disagreement and. He can take it and go whoop. i'm gonna leave it here and then i'm just gonna go on about my day and do my thing
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: Tab can't do that.
Amy Hickman: Same.
Tab Lewis: You know, I'm ruminating
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: And I'm, the I'm a. I guess i i I would like to say I'm a peacemaker. I need peace. I gotta know that we're good.
Amy Hickman: ah
Tab Lewis: Or I can't go do all these other things.
Amy Hickman: That's right. mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And so but we've learned. Over. that continual um of moving toward one another, stay and staying on the same team, we've learned that, okay, just giving it language.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: giving it Giving it language to the point of, hey, I acknowledge. This is hard.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: like this is Neither one of us like this. We're still... we're still choosing each other though we're still on the same team and we're not
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: where we want to be in this yet, but Let's table it. And when we. and we even give it a ah date So we're not going to be able to come back to it this evening because.
Tab Lewis: Life is crazy and we've got other things planned. But on Saturday morning.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: You and I were going to go to breakfast. And we're going to come back to the table. on this.
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: And so and we're going to pick it back up and we're going to move forward. That has helped me so much. in my need. I need this to be resolved right now.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And so we've developed language around what that looks like so that I have an expectation that on Saturday morning when we go to breakfast.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: man, we opening this back box back up and we going to talk about it, you know?
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: And I'm good. And I can move forward. and so I'm just curious if you and Jeff have stuff like that because I think it's important. in that process of fighting well.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: um fighting for each other. You are going to come up on. on on timing and life is busy. And instead of just.
Amy Hickman: here
Tab Lewis: brushing it under the rug or dismissing it. um Now you make an appointment. Now this is important. And so we're coming back to this.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: and
Amy Hickman: Yeah. um You know, generally in our marriage, I would say we haven't been. um big fighters you know like there's not a lot of big Moments.
Amy Hickman: when they've come. They've come out of times of we're tired. We are dealing with exterior things that I am the classic stuffer.
Amy Hickman: You know, and so when the stuffer has stuffed. to its point of capacity you know things Things come out and they're ugly. And who are you going to take it out on? Really, you're going to take it out on the one you love the most. And Jeff has had to bear the brunt of that for me. and ah But he's very much like how you described Chris.
Amy Hickman: I mean, he compartmentalizes and it infuriates me actually, because I'm just like.
Tab Lewis: So frustrating.
Amy Hickman: How can you like go and move forward? You know, there's dissension and.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: I can remember being so resentful. ah you know the times that we've gone to bed upset with one another of being like
Amy Hickman: who do you think you are you're a pastor and the scripture says like don't let the sun go down on your anger and here you are you know and let me kick you a few times let me punch you a couple times in your sleep because you shouldn't be going to sleep because this is unresolved and you know and yet um there were there were moments i mean that The scripture speaks truth. and But there were definitely moments that I can see that.
Tab Lewis: Mm -hmm.
Amy Hickman: you know, maybe sleeping on it was probably the best thing because there was such a... you know it goes back to the selfishness that is within me of uh i I wouldn't have said.
Amy Hickman: uplifting and edifying things had we chosen to, you know, resolve it right then and there.
Tab Lewis: sure
Amy Hickman: and Uh. i believe you know sometimes that that made space for me to let god speak to my heart and That's a way better scenario than the things that I would have said.
Tab Lewis: yeah
Amy Hickman: so ah you know we ah but I believe that there's so much of. Just the fact that we've developed a deep friendship with one another. that I...
Amy Hickman: look at every other friendship in my life and i don't want to intentionally hurt them you know but it Yeah. I hurt the one I love the most, you know, because I want to take things out on them. And so, you know, for us developing that deep friendship with one another.
Amy Hickman: was the very first thing we did as you know a dating couple but we've had to you know really nurture that ah along the years and um I love how you put that, like you're fighting for one another. We've, we're learning to do that.
Amy Hickman: even, I hope we never stop learning to do that. really.
Tab Lewis: yeah
Amy Hickman: I mean, it is. It has been crucial. And. Just. you know, making sure that um we keep that love for each other strong and i can remember early on in our marriage before we even had kids and then we had this conversation again with our children later is, you know, that we developed a family.
Amy Hickman: mission and a family motto, really. and Um... called it whatever it takes you know and I mean for us and that area of fighting.
Amy Hickman: I mean, It has it has come. you know, up so many times, like we're going to do whatever it takes. to... You know fight fairly fight well let love be our motivator you know we want to come out on the other side of this and so um that Those are some things that we've put in place.
Amy Hickman: And that that family statement alone has served us well in so many ways that I could probably.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: you know talk forever and ever on
Tab Lewis: Absolutely. I mean whatever it takes and I think that
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: I think that is. at the heartbeat of being on the same team. you know, and and and fighting.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: well for one another. ah talking earlier about acknowledging that Hey. I know we're not okay.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: but we're going to be okay.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: And we we're were're planning toward moments.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: so that we can talk about. what we need to do to move forward to be okay here. also another thing that we have done and that that that I think has served us well.
Tab Lewis: In. learning how to fight well for one another.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: Um. It you know obviously all goes back to. that foundation of being secure who you are as a woman of God. um And then. being willing to self reflect.
Tab Lewis: being willing to do the work on your whatever god reveals to you in your own heart about yourself being able to do that work but then you acknowledging we're not okay
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: but then also being able to confess to one another. And this has been. um Huge for us, I would say. um in the last Probably.
Tab Lewis: you know, 12 years of our marriage. where confession, we've been on a journey of that.
Amy Hickman: Love you.
Tab Lewis: and I'll share more hopefully um at the end of this episode, or I think this is going to be a two part Amy.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: i think
Amy Hickman: There's a lot to unpack.
Tab Lewis: There's a lot to unpack. but um
Amy Hickman: ah
Tab Lewis: is is confession. and It's become such a natural rhythm. It's a language. You know, it's it it's it is a... It's a part of who we are as a woman of God that we should be daily. constantly in ah in a heart posture of confession to our Father.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: um because that's That's how he cleans us up.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: cleans it out. But even ah in my marriage, I can just... Say, Hey. I need you to know. I'm feeling grumpy today.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: Has nothing to do with you.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I just woke up. I have enough self awareness. I'm just grumpy. And so I want to confess that to you so that. if If I act out in a way that is not honoring to you.
Tab Lewis: or loving to you a that you don't on that.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And that you don't start to think that it has something to do with you and that you can call me out on it.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: you know when you need to because i'm i'm confessing it to you and it can be something as simple as that literally changes the trajectory of our day.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: because I've said to him, hey, I'm grumpy. This isn't the get out of jail free card.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. here
Tab Lewis: okay i can't just act any way i want to because i confessed it But I want you to know. That. as a team
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And I love you and I care about you. I don't want. something that I do or say or whatever. to affect you and for you to think that it has something to do with you. And so.
Tab Lewis: Just be confessional.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: you know
Amy Hickman: And it takes the pressure off of, you know, we joke about this a lot, um you know, like when I counsel other women, you know, like we're expecting our spouse to read our mind.
Amy Hickman: and They don't. And, ah you know, it's the mystery of life. oh Why do they not read our minds? But um that that act of, you know, just confessing to them, you know, I'm not at my best self today. You know, we've had the days where I've... of you know, put you in a position where you've had to guess what's wrong with me. And I don't I don't just plainly tell you. and And so I think it's such a beautiful.
Amy Hickman: um it ah It lends itself, you know, in the daily practice of confession to your spouse, it lends itself. It's coming out of a place of confession. toward God, the the spiritual rhythms that we develop in our life that then benefit our marriages is is beautiful.
Tab Lewis: Yes, yes, and it's... you know it's like um
Tab Lewis: Menphil
Tab Lewis: Loved by us.
Amy Hickman: Hmm.
Tab Lewis: And I'm not a man.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: I'm just going by what my husband shared with me.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: that men feel loved and respected and honored. by us when we are leaning into them and we are. loving and affirming.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: back to them. And I believe as a woman of God that the one of the ways that we can do that is to live with this open honesty. this confession before them and k chris and i have this um
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: This, you know. anthem statement that we use all the time and we we share this with couples all the time is no secrets.
Amy Hickman: and
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: There's no secrets. I don't care if it's. you know, we started a diet together and we're not going to have any sugar and
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I ate a whole bag of Sour Patch Kids today. and I need you to know, you know, not to minimize it, but something as simple as that to, hey.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. but
Tab Lewis: I have been having Um... impure thoughts.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: in this area. for some time. And. I need to confess that to you because I need some accountability from you.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And I'm going to invite some other people into that to hold me accountable. No secrets because.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: Secret, you are only as sick as your secrets and secrets will kill.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: steal and destroy your heart, your soul.
Amy Hickman: well
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And therefore, it will bleed over into every other. area. of your life and your and your relationships especially your marriage so so so no secrets and Um.
Tab Lewis: you know, Like you said, that spiritual rhythm of confessing it before.
Amy Hickman: me
Tab Lewis: God already knows.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: There's nothing about us. from the inside out that he doesn't already know.
Amy Hickman: that's right
Tab Lewis: But he wants us. to know
Amy Hickman: Hmm.
Tab Lewis: To the point that we can speak it out. We can lean into him. We can hand it back over to him and say, okay. Help me.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: Help me with this, you know. um And so when we're already living that out, it becomes so much easier to do that. in our marriage.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: So. um Before we... Take a break. And. close this part of the conversation out amy because i do believe we're going to come back um next time.
Tab Lewis: with with a part two to wrap up this marriage. um chat up. Is there anything that... you today based off what we've talked about.
Tab Lewis: um And this portion of the marriage, the fighting well. um you know the developing that language. that we use in our marriage and you know whatever it takes and
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: you know choosing to stay on the same team, taking leaving off of the table. Is there anything else that you would say? to Um. women today in all stages.
Tab Lewis: hoping to get married, just getting married, been married for five years or been married for 65 years. Um... What would be your closing thought?
Tab Lewis: for encouragement for them today.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. And I really alluded to this. early in our conversation. when we were talking about having a game plan.
Amy Hickman: for marriage, but I would reiterate that with the tag that it is worth it. to have this game plan going into The biggest decision of your life in many ways is.
Amy Hickman: You know, that that time where you're deciding, you know, what kind of wife am I going to be? What kind of marriage do I want to have? And then again, you're asking yourself.
Amy Hickman: multiple times you know I'm still asking myself almost 32 years in You know, what makes it worth it to me? And. ah what kind of marriage do I want to have?
Amy Hickman: And I am adding to the game plan. I'm taking away from the game plan things that don't work. can
Tab Lewis: mm -hmm
Amy Hickman: um I just. you know, think that there's so much value in having this intention. That.
Amy Hickman: You know, we are, we're going to fight well. ah You know, love is going to be our banner as we fight. and when disagreements come up. And.
Amy Hickman: Acknowledge the fact that yes, secrets they kill we we say that often in our marriage secrets kill and that there's...
Amy Hickman: you know. full access to each other's lives. You know, we are not each other's enemy. and
Tab Lewis: yep
Amy Hickman: The enemy himself would have you believe that you are. but you know. I will. I am so big and you know any arena of life, you know, if I have the opportunity to speak wisdom, ah teach.
Amy Hickman: whatever it may be. to encourage you to constantly evaluate. You know, where were you a year ago? And are you where you hoped you would be?
Amy Hickman: Now. evaluate the um your marriage you know what what needs to change what needs some tweaking you know and celebrate the actual wins And your marriages too. That's huge.
Amy Hickman: Like, where do you see God, you know, working the most?
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Amy Hickman: That would be.
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Amy Hickman: What I would encourage women to do is is just really you know evaluate evaluate evaluate
Tab Lewis: Yes. That's gold. So good. So good. I think i the only thing that I would leave them with because you've covered it so well. um is
Tab Lewis: remembering that you are worth it.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And so. If there is something. hidden. Confess it. um If there is something that you just absolutely cannot get on the same page about between the two of you.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: lean in to reach out. We'll invite someone else in. invite another couple in um and and reach out and and Let someone help you.
Tab Lewis: They're not gonna fix it for you.
Amy Hickman: yes
Tab Lewis: You're not looking to them to fix you or your marriage. Only God truly can do that. um But let them walk with you. Let them be a voice of.
Tab Lewis: of reason and unbiased, you know, in your situation and help guide you to truth. and and help guide you to...
Tab Lewis: how to walk in that truth and in in such and sound counsel. And it doesn't have to be, it can be professional counseling.
Amy Hickman: um
Tab Lewis: um It doesn't have to be your pastor. It can be your pastor. It can literally be a couple in your life that you see. the visible manifestation.
Tab Lewis: of of of Two people who have. chosen one another. and that have lived this out. like they've they've chosen the long haul and you see
Amy Hickman: that
Tab Lewis: the fruit in their life and their marriage it can be something as simple as that but don't Don't waste another day. of the beauty of what God wants to do in your marriage and your future marriage. um
Tab Lewis: by being silent and not inviting that in and getting the help you need. um
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: because the Lord has so much more. for you.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: um in your in this journey that he has you on as a couple. And and you're worth it. Your marriage is worth it. um And we say this all the time. we We weren't created to do life alone.
Tab Lewis: um And it takes a village.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: you know, it takes a village to Have a good marriage. It takes a village to raise ah children, you know, it takes a good village to be who God.
Amy Hickman: you Okay.
Tab Lewis: called you to be and so thank you for letting us be part of your village today.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: um And we've loved this time. with you. um These are literally the kinds of conversations Amy and I have all the time.
Amy Hickman: Exactly. um
Tab Lewis: And I love it. and So grateful for it.
Amy Hickman: okay
Tab Lewis: And so we will see you next time as we continue this conversation about. Um. what it means to be a woman of God as you walk in. your marriage.
Tab Lewis: relationship.
