Transcript
Tab Lewis: Welcome back to the Overflow podcast, and I am here with my lovely friend, Amy. and we are so excited to be back with you today we've got some really fun conversation, fun and hard.
Tab Lewis: conversation to have. Today on the podcast, we're going to be talking about boundaries. And we're going to share with you some real life experiences we've had with boundaries. some ways that the the Lord has shaped us through this.
Tab Lewis: the things that he has taught us through this. and we're going to be open and honest about how We have not always gotten this right. We are still on the journey of learning.
Tab Lewis: how to set boundaries. And so we are. really excited. that you have joined us today and we cannot wait to dive into this conversation. But before we do.
Tab Lewis: We, I just want to ask you, Amy. Because we are moving. the The recording that we are doing now, this is going to come out a little bit later, but we are moving into the fall season.
Tab Lewis: And. ah I love everything fall. Give me all the pumpkin spice, nutmeg, all the things, pumpkin muffins, all of it.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: So, Amy, what is your favorite thing about? fall.
Amy Hickman: literally everything. I... love fall. I am a fall baby. I was born in the fall. I just like um I know I'm in a minority saying this, but I love candy corn. I love everything. Just, you know, pumpkin patches, all all the things. and I don't know.
Amy Hickman: really in just the vain answer is I love the clothes. I love finally moving into wearing something that is not short sleeve. You know, I don't care if we layer, I think it's great.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: Um...
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: My favorite season.
Tab Lewis: are you
Amy Hickman: then
Tab Lewis: Are you a flannel girl?
Amy Hickman: Oh yeah, sure.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: Love all the flannels and the boots and the...
Amy Hickman: Love it. Yep.
Tab Lewis: I love. I don't. I love flowers.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I love moms.
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: and all of the beautiful fall flowers. I do not. do very well with mums, keeping them alive.
Amy Hickman: Same.
Tab Lewis: I've tried all the things, but they just
Amy Hickman: Me too. Mine are now from Amazon. and not real.
Tab Lewis: yeah I am very, very close to embracing that myself because and I've i've always been so against it because I'm like, no, they have to be real. And I want to.
Tab Lewis: take care of them and keep them alive. but I am not doing a very good job. So.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: We will see. To be continued on whether or not I. move to the Amazon. mode or not for sure.
Amy Hickman: Yeah, she can do it
Tab Lewis: So yes, you just ah celebrated a birthday. So we're just going to go ahead and say happy birthday to you again.
Amy Hickman: I did. Thank you.
Tab Lewis: And. um Just so glad that you. are back with us today and always.
Amy Hickman: Thank you. Okay.
Tab Lewis: Always love having a conversation with you. and where where our conversations lead. And we, our hope is that this is... life -giving and encouraging to you that something that we um say or that share from our own life experiences.
Tab Lewis: just ah sharpens you and encourages you in your journey as a woman of God. And so today. We are going to be talking about a very hot topic, I think. I think a lot of people are having conversations around.
Tab Lewis: boundaries. And.
Amy Hickman: Spooky.
Tab Lewis: and I know, right? Um,
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: I think. that I've had this thought and I've been doing some other work around words. that are actually... Words that God wants us to.
Tab Lewis: Embrace
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And um sometimes we consider them church words, but I really believe he wants to embrace them and to shift our perspective back to the foundation of. of why he has set those in motion, why he included those in scripture, because they're very important for us to not only know.
Tab Lewis: but to receive and believe them. and fully operate in the meaning that he has placed within them.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And so I've had this desire to have conversations around it and invite people into it and to hope, hopefully that the spirit will shift their perspective on those.
Tab Lewis: And. I believe that boundaries. Is definitely. one of those words.
Amy Hickman: Absolutely.
Tab Lewis: And. If you have studied scripture in the life of Jesus ah much at all, he actually. modeled
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Tab Lewis: what boundaries, what healthy boundaries look like. for us. And we're going to talk about that some today. um I've actually...
Tab Lewis: I did a little bit of research because I wanted to just hit the highlight points of. How he modeled setting those boundaries for us. He made time to be alone with the Father.
Tab Lewis: First and foremost, and he modeled that for us. He recognized the need for rest. And setting the boundaries around that. He did not let people's expectations redirect his mission.
Tab Lewis: That's a big one.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: He loved people without entrusting himself to everyone. Wow.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: Right? For all of us who think that we need to be all things to all people.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: Just look at the life of Jesus. He didn't answer every demand or accusation. He didn't feel like he had to speak into everything.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: that someone said or did or accused him of. And he expressed his anguish honestly. While surrendering to. the father.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And so. I love going straight to. Our source for everything. And that is. Jesus himself, and he modeled that so well. so Amy, I want to ask you.
Tab Lewis: What, what did you, you're, you're in this season of life now. And the Lord has taught you some things about boundaries.
Amy Hickman: that
Tab Lewis: But if you could. Look back. into your past.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And. think about how you used to think about boundaries. Think about what you used to believe. about boundaries. Can you share a little bit?
Tab Lewis: with us about what your perspective used to be.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: before you journey to where you are now.
Amy Hickman: So much of... My experience with boundaries before really is best described in... how it fleshed itself out of of me being a people pleaser.
Amy Hickman: And it was impossible for me to say no to. you know, if someone needed me, it it came out of a place of. loyalty to people which That part of me has not changed. I still consider myself to be a very loyal person.
Amy Hickman: But. It just. really suffocated me to the extent where I could not say no. to. any request and it began to just really And it just cost a lot of things to flesh themselves out in my life as I couldn't.
Amy Hickman: I was insecure. I think it made me insecure because I felt like I wouldn't be valued if I didn't say. ah yes to everything that came my way.
Amy Hickman: And then in just simple, you know, circumstances, too, of when when you're constantly saying yes to things, it makes you. uh busier And so it affects your rest, whether it be your physical, your... You're just physically tired because you're you know running yourself ragged, trying to be all things to all people.
Amy Hickman: or it's just mentally draining. too so You know, that was really my experience with it. and And I am thankful that early on when it pertains to ministry, um because, you know, that is that has been my life.
Amy Hickman: really my entire life because, you know, I'm a pastor's kid. My parents ended up, you know, they were missionaries. and now you know, my husband pastoring a church and and me leading specific ministries within the church. it um I would probably have burnt out by now if I hadn't.
Amy Hickman: changed my perspective on it all those years ago. And so, you know, it did happen fairly early on that God gave me better perspective about it. But I think it's still the place I default to, you know, is that I always want people to, you know, to me, it's like I equate people pleasing with bringing peace.
Tab Lewis: Amen.
Amy Hickman: And that's actually not. um a right way to look at it and so you know i default there but i have to remind myself okay that That is really not.
Amy Hickman: Am I pleasing God? And I had to change my perspective a lot on that.
Tab Lewis: And. Yeah. I love that. You pointed out that. People pleasing, you equated that. To peace.
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Tab Lewis: And I think. I know I have been guilty of that myself. I'm sure we have people listening today who. have been there or may even currently. be there.
Tab Lewis: ah in their own life and and circumstance right now when you're thinking about the whole topic of boundaries. When you were. Cheering. the beginning story of. of your life and and where you. could see you had unhealthy.
Tab Lewis: perspectives on boundaries. I was thinking about... I was always the teacher's pet.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: You know, it was, i'm I'm a rule follower.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I still am a rule follower today.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: I'm not in bondage to it because I do think that there is, you know, that there are rules and and boundaries and guidelines for a reason.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Tab Lewis: But I would. to a T. I would not step outside of the line if there was a... Do not touch the wet paint sign.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: I wasn't going to touch the wet paint and I was going to make sure that everyone else around me knew.
Amy Hickman: okay
Tab Lewis: that they were not supposed to touch the wet paint. You know, it's just.
Amy Hickman: Yes.
Tab Lewis: was ingrained in me and, you know, I'm sure that there were certain things that happened throughout my life that. ah fed into that mentality.
Tab Lewis: but just always wanting. I equated That if I... If I followed the rules to a T. And. I.
Tab Lewis: Made everybody happy.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And everybody around me was pleased and fulfilled. then I brought value. Two. the relationship or the group or the.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: scenario that I was in. I equated my value and worth to how well Others. were pleased with me.
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: And that is a... very Long road. to Disaster.
Amy Hickman: Truly, yes.
Tab Lewis: It really is because. We were never created to be all things to all people. And. We're never, even if. Even if we...
Tab Lewis: could do everything to make that possible. In our minds, it is not possible. to be all things to all people.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: And. um So I would say. My life has been a journey of figuring that out.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And hitting some roadblocks and. ah entering into some places of burnout. and ah revelations coming to that when you do everything you possibly can do. to love someone well in a relationship. And it's still.
Tab Lewis: the the relationship ends poorly.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. Yeah.
Tab Lewis: And so. um is there Is there a particular... situation in your life, in your journey where that sticks out to you where you can say, oh yeah. This definitely was the moment.
Tab Lewis: that that clicked for me. And.
Amy Hickman: Yeah, I... the I think leading up to... the moment where things changed, it really did come out of a lot of hurt you know like we were in to different places where we served and We did go through some hurtful things. And, you know, you can kind of come out of hurtful situations. and
Amy Hickman: It leaves you extremely jaded and you're done and you, you know, you quit God, you quit people, you're, you know. you're looking for a different life path because you don't want to remain in places that hurt you but For us going through those times, I mean, I can genuinely say we look back on that and it had to happen. Like God used those situations to.
Amy Hickman: bring us to this place where um there was an awareness you know of of what needed to change in our life to be able to fully serve people open -handedly, not withholding, but...
Amy Hickman: uh really giving them all of ourself and so if hurting our hearts is what that took you know i can now say today that I'm genuinely okay with it because when and we're leading up to this moment that this whole idea of boundaries clicked for me. It really was.
Amy Hickman: in the season of planting a church. I think, you know, for the those of you listening that, you know, you're maybe working a... ah secular job every day and not really
Amy Hickman: You know, in this ministry world, I don't know if this is as big of a word that you're hearing constantly in that environment. But in the ministry world, I was constantly hearing have margin, have margin, have margin in your life. And I think it's ah probably a little bit overused now. I actually cringe when I hear the word margin. But it was an awakening to.
Amy Hickman: my heart that um, God was putting me. and pockets of areas of my life where I was under some very influential teaching that taught me how to when to say yes and when to say no.
Amy Hickman: And really, it started off with my mother. You know, she is a pastor's wife. and she I remember her telling me, to that You can say no, like don't say yes to everything because you're...
Amy Hickman: Your yes. may have been meant for someone else to to be the one to say yes. you know so um your no needs to be someone else's yes. And so I began to see it differently. It helped in that area of boundaries for me to.
Amy Hickman: It's okay for me to say no, because if I could see that my no was bringing life. into someone else's life that they could say yes to a situation then what a great boundary to have you know but it didn't
Tab Lewis: okay
Amy Hickman: it wasn't an overnight change i mean anything um worth sticking in your life. You know, I think they say, what, it takes 21 days to make a habit. And that that probably was the case.
Tab Lewis: Mm hmm.
Amy Hickman: for me in this area of um boundaries when it came to knowing how to say no and no was saying no was so closely tied to this people pleasing part of me that I...
Tab Lewis: and
Amy Hickman: suffered in guilt some days because I'm saying no, and I know it's the very best thing I can say. Like I know that in my head. that it that it was the right move, but it took a while for it to really resonate to my heart that I wasn't letting people down. that you know i really was trying to open up a door for them. by me saying no, that.
Amy Hickman: um that it could be life -giving in different ways. And so, you know, I think we've talked, you know, and a couple of different of of the podcast that we've done about some things just require perspective shift and that's really been the case for me when it comes to boundaries is just being able to look at it in a way that is it identifying when I say no is it because I'm being selfish Or is it because I'm living in the open hand?
Amy Hickman: And, you know, and my my heart is to give. And not, you know, just be about myself. And it turned into a prideful thing.
Tab Lewis: Okay.
Amy Hickman: You know, boundaries. And that really did change when we were planting a church. And I think it was just like. to be able to go into the newness of church planting with a better mindset.
Amy Hickman: um it really changed those early days when you are actually bone tired because you're You know, there' there's a lot of moving parts to planting a church physically.
Amy Hickman: physically There's a lot of moving parts. And then mentally, just what you're giving of yourself. um you You feel so tired. but um having the beginnings of, you know, setting good boundaries in our life during that time period. I look back on those days and and I think of them so fondly because we had put boundaries in place.
Tab Lewis: Hey. Yeah. That's so important too. to talk about because... I... I can think of a particular time in our life where I remember.
Tab Lewis: This idea. and And Margin was.
Amy Hickman: the
Tab Lewis: was definitely one of those things. But this idea of, I don't think I used the language boundaries at the time either.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm Yeah.
Tab Lewis: and But I just remember there being this. really hard. rub intention. in my home.
Amy Hickman: here
Tab Lewis: you know, with my family. and trying to figure out, okay, what is this that's happening?
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And what do I need to do with it? And I would say that. We have a similar situation where it was ministry related and we were doing all the things. It was one particular. season of our life. and We're going 110 % on what we know and believe the Lord's calling us to do. And then we're raising children. and All the things. And I remember.
Tab Lewis: having this moment in that season of wow. This is taking a toll on my family.
Amy Hickman: Mm.
Tab Lewis: Like, this is really, really hard on my family. And that is the moment that I began. to allow myself to pause long enough to go. What?
Tab Lewis: am I doing that is not mine to be doing right now? And I wish I could say that. It was. uh a seamless process and it wasn't you know usually
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: ah In situations like that, it's where the rubber meets the road and we've hit a roadblock. We've you know hit ah a point where things are chaotic. and Because it's affecting everybody inside your home, things are.
Tab Lewis: to the place where you're like, okay, we've got to stop here because. We're heading down. an unhealthy path. And that was happening for us. And I remember thinking.
Tab Lewis: Okay. My children are watching me. And us as ah as parents not set healthy boundaries and therefore they're feeding off of that. What am I teaching my children in this scenario? and That's what I began to say.
Tab Lewis: I cannot. A, I'm called to my family first. And even within my family unit, I still have to set boundaries. I have to learn what does it mean? What what what am I supposed to be giving to in this particular season?
Tab Lewis: in these particular circumstances that we're walking through. what is what am I supposed to be giving and who am I supposed to be these things for in this season?
Tab Lewis: And really, in reality, it was my family.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And. I had to stop and recognize that first. And you what you were saying was. Let your yes be yes.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And let your no be no. And the hardest thing for me was. I felt like there had to be an explanation with every no.
Amy Hickman: Yes. ahha
Tab Lewis: you know I was still trying to control. and ah have some kind of um influence in what my no was going to result in, how that individual was going to receive it.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: and you know, how it was going to affect the relationship or affect the situation. And I had to learn that the hard way too.
Amy Hickman: yeah
Tab Lewis: Because. The whole purpose in the boundary is for you. and your well -being, you can't control. what the other individual does with the boundary you can't control how they receive the boundary because it's not.
Tab Lewis: really about them it's about you and your well -being And. I just remember, so it was in this crazy season of life when you're raising small children and you're going.
Tab Lewis: Okay, God, you've called me to this in this season of life, and yet I still have to have these healthy boundaries so that I can be.
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: for in my first place, in my first priority. and i can do this well and so for me it was learning that Just stand in front of the mirror.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: here's Here's a practical tip for you. And I would literally do this and I would go. No.
Amy Hickman: but the
Tab Lewis: And just pause.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Not no. I'm so sorry. Or no. I can't do it because.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: Just let your know. be no sometimes there will be appropriate times for you to share why you're setting the boundary and other times
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: Just let your know. They know.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. I remember, and it could have been at the retreat where, you know, you and I met for the first time that this was said, but it has stuck with me ever since. that Um,
Amy Hickman: Lori Wilhite of Central Church in Las Vegas. who you know is leading our conference so beautifully and i mean there's so much truth and so many things that are being said and taught that we can.
Amy Hickman: But during her teaching time, she reminded us that. We never have to justify our no. And I was like. how life -giving that became to me this, you know,
Amy Hickman: person who is a people pleaser and really... Just, I found so much freedom. in someone else. It was almost like she gave me permission.
Amy Hickman: to
Tab Lewis: a
Amy Hickman: Say no.
Tab Lewis: mm -hmm
Amy Hickman: And. it It taught me to give myself. permission. to say no, that I... I feel like you have to you kind of have to look at it this way like because yeah I think it's really easy for us sometimes to know.
Amy Hickman: Yeah, that's the right thing to do. Saying no is the right thing to do. But how in this world am I supposed to flesh that out? without hurting someone's feelings. And so, yeah, you do practice, like you said, you practice saying no.
Amy Hickman: ah you realize too that when the people in your life may come to you with a request and you have to say no.
Amy Hickman: Is understanding that. They actually know you well enough that if you have to say no, they know you that you have a good reason. to say no.
Tab Lewis: and mean
Amy Hickman: And I had to start reminding myself of that because of this. attachment between saying no and living in guilt. um And so how do we say no?
Amy Hickman: and actually live in freedom. is what it became about.
Tab Lewis: Right. Yeah. I think when I think about that too, from a practical standpoint, is It's kind of like when scripture talks about um do everything.
Tab Lewis: possible. within your power to live at peace with everyone.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: possible within your power. And I think about that when I think about boundaries. I think. Okay, so you're setting the boundary. And if you can.
Tab Lewis: If there is opportunity. provide a solution.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: you know And so when i when I'm thinking about a situation, if I have someone who asked me to mentor them or I have somebody who asked me to be a part of something in a season of life or to...
Tab Lewis: to serve somewhere, to go do something. I stop and I think. I can't fulfill this role right now, but can I be a bridge builder?
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Tab Lewis: offer a solution. or ah share a resource that would help them.
Amy Hickman: Mm -mm.
Tab Lewis: find a s ah an answer or solution to what they're asking. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I have that. Sometimes I feel like that's the power of the Holy Spirit when you're listening to to God and you know you know immediately.
Tab Lewis: You can't. You have to set that boundary and say no. But you also know, but I've got ah i've got a solution. that i like I have and a resource I can share with you.
Amy Hickman: yeah
Tab Lewis: I have someone else in mind who could do that.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Would you be willing? to hear that. And I think that has worked so beautifully for me, especially in this season of my life.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: uh, having I only know that I have bandwidth to pour into so to pour into other people. And I can only do that with so many people at a time where.
Tab Lewis: I'm giving them. the best that I can. And that's very important to me. And so I, of course, I want to mentor everybody that asked me to mentor them because I love it and I'm so passionate about it and I believe in it.
Tab Lewis: But I also. have to stay inside reality. And know that I have to keep a healthy boundary around that and only have so much bandwidth. And so, but what I can do is I may know someone else who would be a beautiful fit for that individual.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And I can say. I can't do it right now. But I have someone in mind. Would you be willing for me to connect you? And I've done that even just recently.
Tab Lewis: I think another helpful tool. And you alluded to this earlier. is practice the pause.
Amy Hickman: and hu
Tab Lewis: Because I think sometimes we are quick to set a boundary or we are quick to enter into something without thinking ah if we need to set a boundary.
Tab Lewis: And I think practicing the pause. and asking God.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: You know, is this something that you want me to say yes to? Or is this something that I need to say no so that I am staying within those healthy boundaries of what you've asked for me?
Tab Lewis: in this season of life. And I've even said to people. Anytime anybody asks me to mentor them, I always say I need to pray and ask God.
Amy Hickman: the
Tab Lewis: If he's calling me.
Amy Hickman: hit
Tab Lewis: to this relationship. And so. I think it's okay to ask for permission. Can you give me some time? You know?
Amy Hickman: right
Tab Lewis: to Ask God what he wants me to do. ah You know, because I think sometimes we rush into something, the yes or the no. And we haven't even asked God what he thinks about it.
Amy Hickman: right exactly yeah
Tab Lewis: Right. Not every good thing.
Amy Hickman: cool
Tab Lewis: is meant for us to say yes to.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: there There are some things that the Lord just really wants us to set that boundary around. And like you said, we can rob someone else of operating in this beautiful space.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: If we don't stay within the boundary lines that. that God has drawn around our life and our season.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: So. Um. How do you... This is a good one. How do you know?
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Tab Lewis: When a boundary is necessary.
Amy Hickman: I think they're probably, you know, similar situations that you just begin to realize suck the life out of you. And you're like, okay.
Tab Lewis: Mm hmm.
Amy Hickman: um that If it falls into this category, you know, like... um any I mean, I can think of ways that I evaluate certain things. I'm like, am I going to go into this situation?
Amy Hickman: and have to pretend I'm someone that I'm not. Um, The... if i let's just say that i'm i'm being asked for wisdom but The one asking doesn't receive wisdom.
Amy Hickman: and apply. and it just becomes repetitively you know like a cycle then you know I'm not really gonna continue to enter into that situation. I mean, those are just two off the top of my head that You know, it's just, it gives you that category of, okay.
Amy Hickman: This typically is a life sucker. And so, I mean, these are the realities in which we live.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: So like, no, I'm i i'm not going to say yes to this. But I mean, there's a lot of value in what you said, too, about. can I offer a solution?
Amy Hickman: And if I can offer a solution, I mean. it really It really is still living that life of the open hand, you know, which is really... um something that God has been challenging me in lately is just you know. Can I still live open -handedly?
Amy Hickman: And you might not be able to fully give of yourself, but you can give. the reminder of, you know, he is fully there for you. um And I can help connect you to someone that's. that's going to show up for you because they are way better at this.
Amy Hickman: than I can be.
Tab Lewis: uh -huh
Amy Hickman: for you so you know you said that and i find there is a lot of value uh in that i I think that. You know now I mean when you think about the seasons of life that you're in I mean i I also think there's just the simple reality that sometimes you know, in a younger season, I had more capacity.
Amy Hickman: And it's being able to recognize my my capacity. Like, for example, right now, you know, you mentioned I had a birthday. I turned 53. That is...
Amy Hickman: That is not. You know, I'm still able to really live a full life. I don't have any physical limitations But. when i know that god for example has placed discipleship on my heart um I asked him, you know how many can I feasibly?
Amy Hickman: mentor and disciple. Uh... mixed in with the other things. I mean, I have a job title of a director of communications. I'm a wife. um I still, you know, I have a ah older teenager living at home that doesn't really require my attention but you know if my heartbeat is for family to be first then god how many young women can I actually mentor? And you know, he put on my heart three. And so I'm mentor three.
Amy Hickman: and I have the capacity for that. I mean do I feel tired?
Tab Lewis: Same.
Amy Hickman: After those weeks, I do. I feel tired because... You know, it's... brings that loyalty thing into play about me.
Amy Hickman: When I say that I'm going to give of myself to you, I'm going to completely be loyal to you.
Tab Lewis: the
Amy Hickman: and um The truth of the matter is when we function that way, it takes something out of us. and so Three is what I have the capacity to do. And that's a happy a living openhanded yes for me. me.
Amy Hickman: And. You know, if I... if I could probably name five other people right now that I see in my life that I would like i would give my right arm.
Amy Hickman: to be able to disciple them. like
Tab Lewis: Okay.
Amy Hickman: Lord, please let me. But I know that he.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: he has taught me a lot about rest over you know the years through you know various situations that I've been in. And, you know, in previous podcasts, I've alluded to a big part of that has been my health. You know, I went through a health crisis for 18 years of doctors trying to figure out, you know, like.
Amy Hickman: i'm I'm a guinea pig. I'm being poked and prodded. We don't know what's wrong with you.
Tab Lewis: mean
Amy Hickman: and it was you know, out of a a surgery where I've sustained an injury and you know problems happened and so it took a chunk of my life.
Tab Lewis: a
Amy Hickman: to be able to understand how to fully live. with like chronic illness You know, we'll call it chronic illness. because it did consume so much of my life.
Amy Hickman: You know, God has since healed me and yet I draw back on that time. So... frequently that He taught me how to rest and how to say no.
Amy Hickman: during that because sometimes we do just need to say no for our own well -being. And... ah So all of these other factors of not justifying your no. in knowing that you have a good reason to say no that all came into play and has helped me do that more freely.
Amy Hickman: and without guilt And, you know, so I think, you know, like if you're a person that's listening today that you're just like, I feel guilt about every single time I have to say no.
Amy Hickman: you know I think you have to start reframing. Like... it in a way that what is actually giving you freedom. you know when you say no what is the freedom that's coming from that and begin to implement that into your life.
Amy Hickman: and just cut out that guilt. You know, I think that. you know, as a... As a woman of God. um the enemy is going to come after the woman of God.
Amy Hickman: And so he comes after us.
Tab Lewis: you
Amy Hickman: in this area of. boundaries And I mean, and we could probably. Open up. a lot of different tabs on this conference conversation of you know having boundaries in your marriage having boundaries in your friendship and why they're important, you know. because it all leads to a place of you living a holy life and isn't that the ultimate?
Amy Hickman: goal is to live a holy life free in Christ and You know, if it takes forming the habit of learning how to say no. that helps you live in freedom, then you know begin to implement that in your life.
Amy Hickman: I mean, it is life -giving to you.
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Tab Lewis: Yes, so beautiful. I think. What you said there about. Coming to the revelation. And I think we see this modeled. From Jesus, like he knew.
Tab Lewis: He talked to the father.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: He prayed and he talked to the Father. And. And he knew when to rest. He knew when to retreat. He knew when to pull back. And so having the revelation. that.
Tab Lewis: Setting a boundary saying no is not. Selfish.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: It's actually one of the most selfless things we can do because in.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: pulls us away. from busyness. Um, overcommitment, being in the wrong.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: place. you know, or at at at the wrong time and it not being our season, it not being our time to be. doing the things that we desire to do.
Tab Lewis: And I think it's it's really one of the the wisest, most selfless things we can do because there is purpose.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: in the nose season right
Amy Hickman: Right. Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: There's a no season and there's a go season. And you talking about. you know, struggling and dealing with and learning how to live in chronic illness, that was there was a lot of no's in that season for you.
Tab Lewis: And then we'd have to do a whole nother podcast for you to share all the things that the Lord taught you.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Amy Hickman: All right. Right.
Tab Lewis: in that season and so I think It's like you said, it's renewing our mind, setting Jesus as our model.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: you know, and and and returning to that when we're starting to feel. bad or overwhelmed or that we're going to be rejected or fearful of what our no might mean for us, we can always look back to Jesus.
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: and how he modeled that for us and then Like you saying that made me think. of We are in a go season right now.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Like the Lord has said, go. And he's swinging doors open and we're running through those doors. but But he's prepared us and equipped us.
Tab Lewis: for that season. And we still have to have healthy boundaries.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: And we talk about that. That's another thing you've got to keep. the the boundary conversation at the forefront always, because there's.
Amy Hickman: Always. mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: always going to be somebody who wants your time. There's always going to be something you can do. ah There's always going to be something you want to do that it may not be.
Tab Lewis: your season. It may not be your time. And I think that's the most. Beautiful thing that we can remind. Those listening. today that just because you might be in a no season It does not mean.
Tab Lewis: that you're going to be there forever.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: It doesn't mean, I mean. I can think of the times I was in a no season where. The Lord was like, birthing all of these dreams and desires inside of me. And I was looking at my friends and they were getting to do this. and But I was in a season where my kids really needed me.
Tab Lewis: ah to be, they needed to be. at the forefront in that moment. And I couldn't participate in this because I really needed to be here in this. And I remember thinking. okay, well then this I'm done. This you know i'm not this isn't gonna happen in my life. And that's not true because the Lord will bring it.
Tab Lewis: to pass. It will come to be. when he when the time is right. for you. And.
Amy Hickman: Right.
Tab Lewis: So don't be discouraged if you're in a season where you're having to set some really... hardcore boundaries in some areas of your life. You don't necessarily want to, but you know that it's the right thing to do.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: don't be discouraged because the Lord, is He's going to do something in you in that season.
Amy Hickman: Mm.
Tab Lewis: And I would say that when I was in those places, He was equipping me.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: for this season that I'm in now. the go season, the yes season, where the the boundary lines are are widening, you know, and they're opening up a little bit more.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: and And I can look back now, or I can look back. and and see now that He was equipping me for now.
Amy Hickman: That's right.
Tab Lewis: He was doing something in the nose season.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: in those tighter boundary seasons for sure.
Amy Hickman: Yeah. Yeah that's good.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: how This is a good one. I know we've got we we've we've got to bring this.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: conversation to a close but I guess my question for you. would be how have boundaries changed for you. as you have gotten older.
Tab Lewis: you know you just celebrated a birthday we're in a new season of life
Amy Hickman: Okay.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: How have they changed for you? as you've gotten older.
Amy Hickman: I mean, I think the... really short simple answer is that it just really is it feels more natural to have them. it's You know, for me.
Amy Hickman: I think. You know, God wires us all differently. That's just the beauty of. you know being created by god is that we're were uniquely made and You know, we share the commonalities of some of us are, you know, type A, some are type B. and You know, I'm I'm definitely a planner. And so I love structure. And so I...
Amy Hickman: ah You know, I put some. structures in place that help me have boundaries because I also think there's just the the reality that when I've had these boundaries in place, I'm a nicer person.
Amy Hickman: I'm a, you know, I'm i'm more clear -headed.
Tab Lewis: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: you know if we if we consume Like there's so much information out in the world to consume. And so we have to learn to have just.
Tab Lewis: mm -hmm
Amy Hickman: boundaries. day to day you know like are we going to be really healthy minded people if we're doing nothing but consuming social media all day long. We're not. And yet.
Amy Hickman: there's that part of it that feels a connection. to the world too. And so we have to learn how to have good, healthy boundaries in that area in our work life. balance you know, for me.
Amy Hickman: putting simple things in place of not answering emails after five o 'clock. You know, I did that for years and years and years.
Tab Lewis: and
Amy Hickman: I'm not saying I don't answer an email, but it helped me develop. rhythms. And so... um That's why I can say, you know, just putting some really simple things into place in my life, it just feels more natural now to have boundaries. The boundaries have come without apology. That in the beginning days, I think you're making boundaries. You're apologizing. and
Amy Hickman: um you know it goes back to not justifying your no again you know that that And there's a really good reason why we have to have boundaries. And but the thing is, you have to learn to be okay with not everyone is going to understand why you have boundaries.
Tab Lewis: Okay. mm -hmm
Amy Hickman: you know And that's okay if they don't understand. but You know, now being older, having boundaries is. um,
Amy Hickman: It's natural. I'm okay like if I'm not liked by everyone. I'm okay if everyone doesn't understand the boundaries. It's it's just...
Amy Hickman: being more at peace. um and knowing that the seasons that it felt like hard to make the boundaries I mean that was actually really worth it to
Tab Lewis: mm -hmm
Amy Hickman: be on the side of it. But it's like he, you know, said before, you never stop making boundaries. There's always need for boundaries. And You know our life functions I mean,
Amy Hickman: I believe that God. And i think you have I think you have to celebrate what God has done in the areas of your life. And in this area of boundaries, Because we put boundaries in our marriage.
Amy Hickman: as it pertains to ministry and we have guarded our hearts and we have you know made decisions of not being alone with someone of the opposite sex not communicating with someone of the opposite sex not um
Tab Lewis: and
Amy Hickman: you know, Like if Jeff and I do marriage counseling, typically... if we We want to do that together. If we can't, you know, sometimes that happens and it's okay. But putting really healthy boundaries like those.
Amy Hickman: have really aided to seeing freedom in our ministry. that you know putting that stake in the ground of saying the enemy is not going to come after us in this area and we didn't stop we don't stop working at that we continue to build on those boundaries so that you know
Tab Lewis: and
Amy Hickman: to me it's like the idea of putting on the full armor of God every day to protect. um boundaries, that's what boundaries are doing. They are protecting you from the fiery darts of the enemy.
Amy Hickman: So.
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Amy Hickman: you know, that they're that. you know, that as it pertains to that question of, you know, seeing this as you get older, it's just having the wisdom in that to recognize that.
Tab Lewis: Hello.
Amy Hickman: And.
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Amy Hickman: um You know, I just. uh um I'm a big proponent of having boundaries
Tab Lewis: Yes.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: And.
Amy Hickman: Have them.
Tab Lewis: Right. As you, like you said.
Amy Hickman: so
Tab Lewis: the revelation of And the wisdom that comes with the practice of setting boundaries. We all have to start somewhere. You know, we I may have entered into that kicking and screaming.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: But what I have discovered over the different seasons of my life is it actually is one of the healthiest places that you can be.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: you know It's what's best for you and your family. And then it's what's best for the other people or the other. you know so circumstances and situations that you're gonna be. entering into and participating in because we want to bring the best healthiest version of ourselves into any relationship or scenario that we're entering into.
Tab Lewis: And you, you know, we talk all the time about you can't pour out of an empty cup. And one of the ways that you get filled back up is by living within those healthy boundary.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: lines And I would just encourage as we're closing today to those who are listening to us, because what you just shared is gold. I mean, boundaries are protection and and we need to be protected.
Amy Hickman: Yeah.
Tab Lewis: The Lord wants to protect us in those ways. and My encouragement would be. that every yes That you.
Tab Lewis: Enter into. is Um. Setting you up for. an opportunity for another no. And every...
Tab Lewis: know that you speak is setting up an opportunity for someone else to say yes to.
Amy Hickman: Mm -hmm.
Tab Lewis: and So when you say yes, you want to be sure that it's God yes for you.
Amy Hickman: Mhm.
Tab Lewis: And going back to practicing that pause and asking God, is this something that you have for me in this season of my life? And reminding yourself that.
Tab Lewis: If he says no, it's not because he doesn't want to develop you and grow you and use you and fulfill you. It's just that you're not ready for what.
Tab Lewis: is next.
Amy Hickman: mm -hmm
Tab Lewis: And so he wants to equip you and prepare you for what he has next for you. And so I hope that you leave. Uh, We leave you today with.
Tab Lewis: encouragement to lean into practicing setting boundaries for yourself, you know, number one, talking to God about it, but inviting someone else into it, whether it's your spouse, a friend, a family member.
Tab Lewis: you know, someone in but in church, Bible study, small group, you know, say, hey, I. I really feel like I need to set a boundary here. I'm feeling a little bit of a rub and an unrest about this. Can you help me?
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Flesh this out.
Amy Hickman: Mm hmm.
Tab Lewis: Can you help me figure out um what might be right for me in this season. So always safe to invite other trusted, wise counsel.
Tab Lewis: into those spaces too, when you feel like, I'm not sure if I'm hearing this from the Lord or not. invite someone else to to help. you know, guide you and and walk with you.
Amy Hickman: that's right
Tab Lewis: But thank you so much for joining us for the boundaries conversation today. We hope that you leave encouraged and we just want to encourage you to lean into that.
Tab Lewis: And let the Lord just enrich and enhance your life. I promise he will. Enrich and enhance your life if you will live within his boundary lines for you.
Tab Lewis: And we can't wait to see you next time.
