Transcript
Speaker: who the Oscars went to, but should they have gone there? Welcome to And the Oscars Should Have Gone To, a place where we discuss, debate, and decide certain Best Picture races from the Academy Awards, and then reveal who we think should have been awarded the Best Picture Oscar that year. Maybe our Best Picture pick was clearly the movie everybody loved that year.
Speaker: Maybe it was an influential work that filmmakers still discuss years later. Or maybe it's just the movie that everyone re-watched year after year As always, we recommend that you folks at home watch each nominee so you can make your own determination and then let us know how wrong we are And with that, we thank the Academy. Let's start the show.
Speaker: Welcome back, everyone, to In the Oscars Should Have Gone To. I'm Rob from Boston. Glenis from Los Angeles. Dylan in Los Angeles. Oh, good. So we're all here. Okay, everyone's accounted for. And this will be the season two finale from 1977. So we're excited to talk about that year and wrap up this season as we head into season three. So thank you all for listening.
Speaker: um As Glenn pointed out to me earlier, we do this for the love of. art, not money. and and so we are Rob's like, is our is our movies art? They are art. Yeah, some some of the movies you talk about don't even seem like art. but that like movies yeah It's been very enlightening, these two seasons, and seeing some of these re-seeing some of these movies and seeing some of them for the first time is open my eyes to what is and is an art. That can be another podcast, guess. watch them so you don't have to. So you don't have to. And don't forget forget our about our email address if you want to reach out to us, the Oscars podcast, oscars with an S, at gmail.org. And okay.
Speaker: First movie was the winner, Annie Hall. It's a romantic comedy drama directed by Woody Allen and starring Allen as Alvy Singer, who tries to figure out the reasons for the failure of his relationship with the eponymous female lead played by Diane Keaton in a role written specifically for her.
Speaker: Second movie is The Goodbye Girl, a romantic comedy drama directed by Herbert Ross and starring Richard Dreyfuss, Marsha Mason, and Quinn Cummings that centers on an odd trio of characters. a struggling actor who has sublet a Manhattan apartment from a friend, the current occupant, and her precocious young daughter.
Speaker: Julia is a political drama directed by Fred Zinneman about writer Lillian Hellman, played by Jane Fonda, and her relationship with a lifelong friend Julia, played by Vanessa Redgrave, who fought against the Nazis in the years prior to World War ii Star Wars. I heard of that one. Epic space opera direct direct directed by George Lucas set in a fictional galaxy under the rule of the tyrannical galactic empire in which a resistance movement called the Rebel Alliance aims to destroy the empire's ultimate weapon, the Death Star.
Speaker: And finally, The Turning Point is a drama centered on the world of New York City ballet and New York City directed by Herbert Ross and star who also directed goodby girl and starring Shirley Anne So let's start off. um Let's start off with Turning Point. Just mentioned that one.
Speaker: Glynis, why don't you go first and we can discuss that one a little bit and see how you liked it. Sure. Not going to spend a ton of time on this movie because it is a pretty obscure, obscure movie that has clearly not made it into the canon based on Rob search for trying to be able to watch it. Would you get it on a VHS? Exactly. I had a hard time finding this one. Right. And there's a good reason. Like this is just a fine movie. It's a slight movie. It's about two former. Well, ah one's a former dancer, two friends, and one's a former dancer and one ah went on to become a top performer
Speaker: And the other one, hurt the one who didn't, had a family. And I think it's sort of about their little reunion and the jealousies that they have um over one another's lives. And then the B story is that ah one of the daughters is... um ah ah of the of the person who had the family goes on to, she's she's going to become a prima ballerina, and you sort of watch that. And it's ah it's a true story, actually. So that was kind of surprising um ah that...
Speaker: I guess i guess it it was actually boring enough to be a true story. so um ah And and that the girl playing... The kind of only remarkable thing about this movie, really, is that the girl playing... um The actress playing the girl becoming a prima ballerina is actually the person...
Speaker: in real life was about so she's not a real act she was not a real actor um she was a ballet dancer and um you know then you've got the real actors which i thought was kind of unfair to stack her up against these other two gigantic talents So this was a pleasant watch. ah It wasn't terribly dull or anything like that. It just wasn't terribly remarkable. i am curious why it got nominated that year. It's just a fine movie. Nobody needs to watch this. It didn't make it into the canon. If you love... If you love dancing, I guess, but you're not even probably going to see that much dancing. Wait, is Mikhail Baryshnikov in this?
Speaker: Yes, he got nominated. Yeah. If you love Mikhail Baryshnikov, as I do, that will be exciting for you to see. But I would not say to seek this movie out in any way. And I am just not going to say much more about it than that. Other than like, it's a very fine TV movie of the week.
Speaker: That's what it felt like to me. Even though you have like really, you know, you've got Anne Bancroft and Shirley MacLaine. Thank you. oh my God. Shirley MacLaine in it who are, who are really great. The rest of the cast is just middling and it's ah there's just not a lot.
Speaker: Yeah. Not a lot to recommend this movie other than if you happen to catch it, if it's on TV, which I can't imagine it ever will be on streaming or anything, random live TV streaming. Apparently not.
Speaker: You could. rob here the hs tape It's an obscure movie that disappeared. And I think that's fine. There's no crime about that. So that's all I have to say about that movie. You know, you said Anne Bancroft and Shirley MacLaine were great. Do you mean they're great or do you mean they were great in this movie? I think that they're generally great and they are good in this movie. they're They're doing, you know, what they can. It's not like, again, it's not a terrible script. It's not anything. It's just like, there's nothing. There's no Zaza zoo to recommend it. Right. Like there's, so I think that they are really good and it's fun to watch them, but it's not their best work. So okay you don't need to see them in this. You can see them in other good movies.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I agree with with most most everything you said there. um it's it's not It's not a movie to seek out and watch unless you're doing a podcast like we're doing.
Speaker: um it's I mean, I searched everywhere. i you know Hulu, Netflix, Tubi, everywhere. Peacock. like no no No place had it no It didn't come up in the searches. It wasn't on my regular cable. Did you try the library? That's where we got Not in the library. It was nowhere. um I got it, like you alluded to, I got it on a notebook. old beat up VHS copy from a reseller on Amazon.
Speaker: And we were marveling earlier at the fact that you still own a VHS and there's a whole backstory behind that. right too but But as a result, I got to see the turning point so turning point. Or maybe you had to see the turning point. I had to see the turning point. Yeah. I almost wish I didn't have a VHS player now. I didn't like this movie. guys yeah Oh, you didn't like it. Okay. No, I didn't like it. I i found my mind wandering a lot during this movie.
Speaker: um to other things in life, pretty much anything other than the movie. And I had to get myself to refocus quite ah quite a bit. I mean, I thought that the only good parts were Beresnikov's dancing. I mean, how he ended up in this movie I don't know how they... I mean, it was 1977. Oh, he just defected, right? He had defected and he was trying to make a career America. Yeah. And he was smart. He couldn't dance forever. So he immediately got into Hollywood, which was very smart of him. And he got nominated for an Oscar. Go figure.
Speaker: um But it was nominated 11 times, this movie. exactly yeah Why this movie was nominated 11 times? It won zero. Tied with the color purple.
Speaker: Yeah. Most nominations for a movie without winning any 11. Yeah. So, um yeah, it was, I mean, Anne Bancroft and Charlie McLean were just, I take it a step further than you were. I thought they were kind of wasted in this movie. Well, definitely wasted. yeah that Yeah. That's the only, they're kind of the only good thing about the movie. It's not, it's not, again, it's not terrible. I just felt like I was watching a middling Netflix movie if they were making it today.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's almost like they were hiding themselves because if you notice the closing credits, like I'm one of these rare people that likes to watch closing credits. I don't i don't know why that We also watch, yeah. Do you really? Okay, good. It's a movie nerd thing. It is a movie nerd thing. um But they were black... closing credits on a black background that you could barely see. Like they were almost trying to hide themselves. um Hide your shame.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, the script wasn't that good. It was a little formulaic. The, you know, like I said, the only good part was the dancing. They kind of let Baryshnikov free to do his thing at the end, along with Leslie Brown. um And they, they,
Speaker: you know, kind of wrapped up the movie early and let them do their dancing just to give it some kind of quality at the end. i don't know. Maybe it was subconscious thing. Who knows? But I didn't, I didn't care for this movie and I don't recommend anyone sees it.
Speaker: Okay. Enough of that, Dylan. Go see black Swan. Next movie. There you go. and Okay. Very well said. All right. So the next movie, let's do, um, Julia.
Speaker: Okay, Julia, Dylan, you want to go? You want to call that you had such a great one on on Turning Point. I'm curious to hear what you say on Julia. Go see Reds.
Speaker: minus Yeah, agree. Go see Reds. this i Again, what's going on in 1977? Not enough cocaine, too much cocaine. We don't know. um Why did this movie get nominated? Jane Fonda is like swinging for the fences with some acting. based on a story by...
Speaker: Lillian Hellman. So and in theory, it's a true story. But if you dig into it, um everybody said, no, it's not a true story. And Lillian Hellman is a big liar. And one great quote, which I am going to say, somebody said about that story in particular, and I think Lillian Hellman, which is, ah everything every word she writes is a lie, including the words and and the. So you know for a story that's largely fictional, this was very uninteresting.
Speaker: as a movie. So it it's, it's Lillian Hellman, it's you know, who's writer and, and it's about this friend of hers. And I don't understand why this friendship is significant. They don't get it across in the movie. ah It's again, didn't make it into the canon. You don't need to watch it.
Speaker: Rob, what did you think? Yeah. um i liked it a little bit better than than you guys did i'm not going to recommend it or anything did you like it better than the turning point that i liked it better than the turning point i did if i had to pick between the two i would go with julio over the turning point really i mean tell us why why would you um it just had i like the look and the feel of the movie it kind of had this mysterious kind of you'd never know what's going to happen next vibe to it and it was a little mysterious you're right glenis that they never really did say why julia was quite so significant other than they used to hang out as kids um There's a lot of kids people we hung out with as kids that we do want to keep in touch with and a lot we don't want to keep in touch with. But um the it just it was, you know, the fact that it was a supposed to be a true story. I didn't read about that whole end and the thing till the end. Sometimes the movie is so.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to say it. that ah you just go to the Wikipedia while you're watching it and try to make it more interesting with the backstory. that's True story. She did.
Speaker: Yeah, it's become our cliff notes you know during during these movies. into But you know it always it it seemed like several movies in one. It was a little schizophrenic in that regard. it was kind of like ah a little bit all over the place. But it it it did manage, I think...
Speaker: during the second half anyway, to keep its focus. What did you, Rob, what did you think of Jane Fonda's acting in this? Cause I think that's the thing to talk about in this movie. Sure. She was Jane Fonda. You know what i mean? She didn't get nominated and she shouldn't have. Yeah. She was herself. She is. She's someone who has limited talent, but tries to stretch it, which I think is admirable.
Speaker: she does. She's far away. She's tried every type of role there is. Her tastes exceed her talent. Well, her reach, was it her ah her ah reach exceeds her grasp, right? yeah Yeah. So yeah, she's not a very talented actress, but she really goes for roles that a talented actress would make you think, wow. So yeah, sorry, Deidre, I agree, Rob. I think her roles are wonderful. It's just she's not that good. But anyway. Yeah. think the best she ever was was in Golden Pond. Playing herself. Or on Golden Pond, sorry. Playing herself. Because you called for someone that was herself because her father was in that movie. Yeah, And you kind of called for that. And just to borrow a little bit from on last podcast, He was talking about Gene Hackman in that case. They probably asked Jane Fonda, can you be Jane Fonda in this movie? I sure can. I sure can. Who am I acting against? Your dad. Oh, yeah. I have a lot to say. Exactly. More surprises in this movie that Redgrave and Robards were nominated for and won Oscars. Well, he won Robards, right? They both won and Robards won the year before. That's right. What the fuck? Yeah, it was a little strange. They were kind of minor characters roles that I think anyone could have played. I don't think they were really a stretch to have won an Oscar for that. Yeah, Vanessa Redgrave did not have a ton to do in this. I don't know. She really didn't. I was looking for more from her. My guess is she was a theater person from a prestigious British family, and Oscar really loves to reward that to, I think I've mentioned this before, we're not just popcorn and cowboys and stuff. We're also very prestigious.
Speaker: I think that's what that was about, because she comes from a very distinguished British family of actors. This was not her first big role, though, was it? Or... Was it a breakthrough? Well, not not a breakthrough. No, she'd been around a while. But I think yeah i think this was ah without looking, if I had to guess, was probably her most visible role. She'd been like in like Ken Russell movies and stuff like that that are kind of esoteric.
Speaker: So my guess would be this would be her, not her breakout because she'd been around about, but kind of her first role that a lot of Americans would have seen her in. Jason Robards is more inexplicable because he was barely in it and just sat there being grumpy because he's Jason Robards.
Speaker: He's at that. That's his brand. He's Yeah. But I thought it was a little more... well-crafted and well-performed, I think, than you guys did. But again, I'm not going to go as far as recommending it for anyone. Yeah. yeah you can You can give these two miss, which is why we're not spending a ton of time on them. Yeah, you can miss these two. As Dylan said, ghost reads better movie go see Around kind of similar material. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, exactly. um yeah Anyway, moving on to um The Goodbye Girl. Why don't we do that one next? Yeah, Rob, why don't you start with that one? yeah Yeah, I can start with that one. um It has the feel of a play um because it would surprise it has a feel of a play because it was written by Neil Simon, who's you know the famous playwright.
Speaker: um But it wasn't a play in this form. in this form It was directly a movie which went through several rewrites. And you know to tell you a little bit about it, um it's Marsha Mason's character and her daughter live together. And they were living with this guy, the boyfriend who decided to take off on them and sublet the place out to Richard Dreyfuss, which kind of leaves a question mark of, you know, are they supposed to keep living there while Richard Dreyfuss does? Or is this, um or are they supposed to move out while he moves in? it was unclear to everybody. So they all moved in together um and, and lived together throughout the movie. And, you know, it becomes a romantic comedy I guess you could say. It's definitely a rom-com. Yeah, as time goes by. And yeah, and the characters develop and they they they start to like each other, especially the daughter watching her. She was nominated for an Oscar too, the daughter, Quinn Cummings, as she should have been, I think. I think she was excellent in this, as was as was Dreyfus.
Speaker: I really like Dreyfus in this role, and I know you, i'm going I'm curious to see what you guys say about it, but I like this movie, and im not and I'm proud to say that, that I do like this movie. You know, I think the scene with, um Dreyfus played an off off-Broadway actor in in the film, and he was in the scene with, he was Richard and And they just had him play Richard III as kind of this like effeminate character, which I thought he just pulled off perfectly. And then the show was canceled like within a week and he was relieved it was like canceled and the whole thing. And I just thought that part of it was a real hidden you know gem in this movie.
Speaker: um But i I thought the three of them worked very well together, Marsha Mason and Quinn Cummings and Richard Dreyfuss. And I do recommend seeing this movie. The song, The Goodbye Girl by David Gates came from this movie as well. So I liked it. I would recommend it. And I'm very curious to hear what you guys say, especially Dylan with his short reviews this week. I would like to hear what has to say about this.
Speaker: Goes to the odd couple. No, um I think. ah No, yeah, it's a fine movie. It's a real time capsule of movie making in the late 70s and of New York in the late 70s.
Speaker: The whole premise is very New York. It's kind of I i forget. Marsha Mason is a dancer. in this one? Yes. She's trying to get herself back into shape to get a job as a dancer. Yes. So they're all very artistic, kind of living, not a loft, but kind of, a you know, it's a shared space. um It's, you know, there's, I think, i maybe imagining this, but I'm assuming there's ferns everywhere and, you know, fucking bookcases made of cinder blocks and stuff. It's very late 70s New York feel.
Speaker: ah just the visuals and the design and everything. And then as a movie, it's a real snapshot of what a kind of typical middle-brow movie would have been back then.
Speaker: Because there were a lot of those around that time. And they also, a lot of times, revolved around single women or single women with children, which is also reflecting the times. um as ah as a As a picture of New York and maybe America in the late 70s, it's kind of an interesting period piece.
Speaker: I think ultimately it's pretty slight. um You know, it's it's fine. You know, I don't think there's anything to hate. i I don't think there's anything in particular to rave about either.
Speaker: i think Richard Dreyfuss is fine. um That he won Best Actor, i guess. um he You know, he certainly never showed... flashes of this brilliance afterwards. But i think it was the perfect role for the perfect actor. And Marsha Mason's always Marsha Mason, very affable, you know, um always kind of, kind of like your exasperated aunt, you know? So that's cool.
Speaker: um The kid's the kid, you know? So it's, it's fine. It's Herbert Ross. He's, he's, you know, he's the Tim Van Patten of movie directors. You know, he did like steel Magnolias and footloose and, you know, the turning points. Like, yeah, sure. Whatever.
Speaker: Like, yeah your grandparents are over and you want to spend time with them. Maybe you put on a Herbert Ross movie so you can bond instead of talking about the good old days when, you it's awesome. You know, a horse costs a nickel or whatever. um So, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker: I don't think anyone has to see this. I think it's largely forgotten. i think Richard Dreyfuss never made it into the A-list. And I think there's a reason for that. But in this, he's perfect. um i'm not going to add much more i'm kind of like probably right in between the two of you but leaning more towards rob but i do like this movie and um i don't know if you have to see it or not if you're a lover of rom-coms and you sort of want to see the precursor precursors to the modern rom-com like this could be one of them less so than annie hall although i think we'll have the discussion about whether annie hall is an actual rom-com because of the ending but ah
Speaker: I don't know. It's fine. It's like a very cynical. I feel like it's a very cynical rom-com like the two. Oh, really? Because they can get together in the end. they do accept each other's kind of flaws both really unlikable characters maybe that's where i see the cynicism it does have a cynical nature about it throughout though like it's kind of like they're they're i don't know they're both kind of unlikable throughout and that doesn't seem redeem redeemed even at the end but i still again i still enjoy it do you have to see this movie you do not if you love rom-coms and you're looking for another rom-com This is okay. It's not bad. It's not a super romantic movie kiss. Like that's how, I think this is how you can see how far rom-coms have
Speaker: evolved although maybe when the director was making it they didn't think it was going to be a rom-com that maybe they don't think of it that way it's just uh don't know it is love it is a love story though so so i don't know it's a pleasant movie i don't really have much more to add i think richard dreyfuss is really good in this actually and marcia mason's okay and quinn commies is okay yeah so i think um It's, you know, toss a coin, decide whether, like, if it's on TV, just watch it, but you don't have to go and get it necessarily. Yeah. So those are, those are kind of the, the bottom three. I think we can all agree. Moving on. Okay. I, I, I know this movie just from knowing Dylan as long as I,
Speaker: have like is he's got a lot to say about Star Wars so I'm curious to have Dylan start off on our next movie Star Wars or Star Wars A New Hope if you prefer i don't so you don't okay episode one the first Star Wars um we're going to pretend the rest don't exist.
Speaker: Okay. It's, this is a tough movie to talk about because it's so enormous in the pop culture landscape. Right. Anyone born after 77 doesn't know a pop world without star Wars. They may loathe star Wars, but it's inescapable. Yeah. Um,
Speaker: there's almost no way to think about popular movies without Star Wars. So it's such a hard movie to evaluate. When you know someone's doing an IP, they're imitating Star Wars. When someone's merchandising toys, their Star Wars was the kind of the first to do that.
Speaker: When they're shoehorning all these you know supposed psychological, mythological themes, Star Wars was the first to overtly do that. And it spawned novels and comic books and TV shows. So in in one way, it's almost impossible to look at it critically.
Speaker: I don't know if it's a good movie, but it's a great movie. um The acting is not very good. Harrison Ford is probably the best thing in it. And and I love Harrison Ford because of this movie.
Speaker: yeah He's not a great actor. Alec Guinness looks like, oh, great. This is paying for my beach house in Brighton look on his face. know what I mean? um The special effects, we rewatched it. And unfortunately, we rewatched the George Lucas edited version. For those of who you who don't know, the original came out and was fantastic.
Speaker: fucking fantastic and really cutting edge special effects for its time. George Lucas was always unhappy with it. So when it got re-released in Glennis, was it? In the 90s, like 97, I think I went to see it. Yeah, 97 98, maybe 98. Okay. He changed a lot. He didn't change a lot, but he changed a few things here and there.
Speaker: But those are minor quibbles. It's just the the point is we did see it when it came out originally. And the special effects were like nothing up to that point that had ever been seen in science fiction. not that they're necessarily so groundbreaking, although a lot of it was, it was the first science fiction movie to show the future is kind of dirty. It's kind of lived in. it wasn't clean and pristine, like say 2001 or star Trek where looks, Oh, the future is going to be so sleek and amazing. It was dirty. There's dust everywhere and their clothes were dirty.
Speaker: And, um, you know, had a lot of just kind of people walking around doing their thing. So it had very, in in tune with the 70s, a very realistic, gritty feel, even though it was very science fiction, which was a really big part of its appeal that it seemed like it was an actual world you could step in, not like Star Trek.
Speaker: the The plot is from a Kurosawa movie, Hidden Fortress, which I i recommend everyone see every Kurosawa movie. But um that's unusual to borrow from other movies and other themes.
Speaker: A lot of the shots are also borrowed from different movies. And there's definitely a Western feel to it. But somehow George Lucas, and he's never done this since, he put all these elements together of different genres. Not in a Quentin Tarantino way where you can say, oh, that's a Kung Fu bit or that's a blaxploitation or that's John Cassavetes. He put into this kind of, at least for a seven-year-old, a seamless kind of hole where it's it's a Western, but also it's a samurai movie, but also there's some...
Speaker: weird kung fu stuff in it, but also it's clearly science fiction, but that is also father-son relationships and things like that. And it's kind of a little bit of a romance, um or at least like a devil's triad, you know? um So it put all these elements together with ah just one of the best soundtracks ever.
Speaker: you can, you can look at, you can pick apart certain things on it. don't know. It's pretty exciting. It's pretty tight. It doesn't work. That shit works. It has moments of comedy, has vague undertones of cynicism, it's ultimately very romantic and hopeful.
Speaker: Um, it has a lot of Zen mystical stuff, but then you have, you know, like um ah laser fights, like a samurai movie, gunfights, like a Western, you know, um they, so they swing around like, like Errol Flynn or Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Like it's going back to silent movies. And then you have like wacky, you know, Laurel and Hardy with C-3PO and R2-D2. So it's almost like he's, he's compressing 70 years of movie making of cinema into one incredibly entertaining movie.
Speaker: piece of work that has lasted now 50 years and probably will last another 50 years. So yeah first of all, everyone has to see this because it's, it's so big in pop culture. It's like, you know, you have, you have to hear Elvis Presley at least once. You may not like it, but you have to be exposed to it.
Speaker: I can't imagine anyone not liking it. And I, I think it's, um, I think it's a great movie. Yeah. It's, i love I love your assessment of the fact that it it may not be a good movie, but it's a great movie. I think that you know hits the nail on the head. um you know Part of the things that you look at is ah you know for in a good movie is characters, and the characters have depth. and I don't think any of the characters in this movie have depth, but do they do they need to? You know what i mean? say Because it's a great movie. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. um
Speaker: It's just... ah Yeah. What can you say about Star Wars? It's ah everything. Everything. everything it's Everything. Everything. It's meant to be an epic. It is an epic. um It's a it became a franchise. It became a cornerstone for um countless movies. They they made a three episode prequel, which I know Dylan was careful not to mention.
Speaker: And then what the three episode prequel. The what? i gone Yeah, go on. I'm falling for that. I keep saying. We could do this all day, folks. Back and forth. And then a three episode sequel, which i don't know, I thought was better than the prequel, but still nothing like the original three, of course. um But can you think of a franchise that's more beloved and part of pop culture and part of our history than this? I mean, it's' it could make it into history books that it's just so important. Like Elvis Presley was important. He may or may not like him, like Dylan said. there's ah There's a handful of things that you can say are important in our pop culture. Yeah.
Speaker: it's and it's not just an epich it's an event the the plot if you read about the plot the plot is not a simple plot it's fairly It's fairly complex and when you think about the plot. As child, you just tune it out. Like there's words on the screen. Okay. Oh, people are shooting.
Speaker: Cool. yeah And that's okay because as a child, you can just watch the the battle scenes and be entertained by them. You don't have to understand it to like this movie. As you get older, you can understand the plot as much as you want to and take as much stock into it as you want to. And take that to heart and love the movie for for that way.
Speaker: So there's a lot of, it's for a lot of different ages. I heard they're going to re-release it actually in 2027 for the 50th anniversary. Not the original though, right? Probably Lucas cleaned up version. No, this one we're talking about today. there Oh, I see what you' saying. Original versus the... Like, is he going to juge it up a bit more with more special effects? or Oh, you know what? That I don't know. Yeah. that I don't get excited about that because I just think he just wants to keep remaking this movie again and again. Which is his right. i mean, it's his property, but it's like... yeah yeah i hold I hope they just do the original 1977 theatrical release. Yeah. Again, that was they didn't need to yeah just clean up the print and put it out. If I may interrupt, one of the problems, it's not just the special effects. In the original, you're introduced to Han Solo character and he he shoots someone who is presumably going to shoot him, but but Han Solo shoots first kind of unprovoked.
Speaker: And then later on, you you he seems like like a very amoral person, but then in the end, he kind of turns around helps the rebellion, and you realize, oh, he's kind of changed, or he's like maybe Rick in Casablanca. He always had that in him.
Speaker: But in the cleaned-up Lucas version, which is what most of you are going to see or have seen, Han Solo is defending himself. The other person shoots first, and Han Solo is just just just you know defending himself. But that five-second change changes his entire character,
Speaker: And ruins his character arc. He doesn't become a cynical bounty hunter and then turns into this kind of romantic rebel. He's, oh, he was always that way. he's He kind of has a code of honors. That's bullshit. And that that ruins that character. So it's not just a special effects. Like, oh, we want a better explosion. It's like, yeah but you're changing a few character tweaks that actually ruin the character's arc.
Speaker: for us. He can't be redeemed because he's already a good guy. The whole point with that character is like, he doesn't care about anything about money. He keeps telling anyone that will listen. But in the end, he does something that has nothing to do with money. It's like, oh, wow, what ah that's a much stronger character. so But you're talking about George Lucas, and I thought it was interesting that he was given a two-picture deal at the time, and one was American Graffiti, and the other one was an unknown space opera. Unknown space opera. And that turned out into our Star Wars movie. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: ah But what what movies can you think of that had you know re-releases in theaters like this? 1978, 79, 81, 82, and then going to be released again, as I read. um But yeah, I mean, I can't say much more about it than Dylan did. He very eloquently described this movie, and I agree with him on everything he said, and i'm curious to hear what Glynnis thinks. Yeah, it's really hard to so ah to separate this from your childhood. Like this is our – we are the generation that saw this like age, you know, six and seven and whatever, you know. ah um
Speaker: And it's so huge. It looms so huge. I still have my Princess Leia doll that I got that year for Christmas. really Yeah. Yeah. I think Dylan, again, Rob said it, and I agree with him, like, what you said, um it's not a good movie, but it's a great movie. Like, yes, the acting is a little bit cheesy. um But other than that, I think it really is...
Speaker: It really holds up. I still get excited to watch it. I i am a little bit pissed off about the 1997 re-release where they, you know, tarted up all the special effects. And we did go and see it in the theater when they re-released it that year. And when when ah Luke and Leia, spoiler alert, their brother and sister, when they kiss, everybody in the theater just went, eww, because we all knew at that point. um Other than that, like it I think it's just, I still would watch that movie anytime. It's kind of like Jaws for me. It's it's one of the great 70s movies. And um I wish that they would re-release it just in its original form. I don't want to see the special effects that he could do because even now those are going to look stupid. So unless you keep updating them with the new software, like it's just going to keep looking straight. Just go back to the original, you know, but um yeah, I love this movie. i I don't like any of the other ones nearly as much as I like this one. I did not like the ones that they did in the 90s and early 2000s. Those are terrible.
Speaker: But I love this movie. It's just, i don't know, there's a lot going on, but it's in the end, it's clear who the heroes are and yeah You know, it's it's it's just our childhood. So it's it's hard to see. i think also there's this feeling about Star Wars, which is you either love it or you hate it. nobody's on the yeah Nobody's on the fence on this one, I feel like. Nobody's like, oh, Star Wars is fine. It's either you love Star Wars or you hate Star Wars.
Speaker: So I think that that being that kind of a movie, like it's provoking a strong response. so um But yeah, I think it just is spawned the modern mega franchise.
Speaker: I mean, I think i I wish that it would finish the modern mega franchise, to be honest with you. That's gotten out of control. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's a great movie. I i just love everybody in it. I i don't like Luke Skywalker, and yes yet yet it's still a very watchable movie. So even ah with kind of crappy actors or not great characters, it's still it's still really great and watchable. So don't It's hard not to love this movie for me. Yeah, it's hard to find a movie that checks all the boxes on the great movie. checklist, but misses some on the good movie checklist. Yeah. Which it doesn't necessarily need. I mean, I like, i like you know, the different aspects of it. Like, they had it was kind of like, ah had like a whimsical nature to it, I think, at yeah at the time. Really, watching it at the time was like, holy cow!
Speaker: The space looked amazing at the time, right? Like, it looked very ultra-modern and ultra-realistic, and like, wow! It didn't look fake at the time at all. So... Yeah, in and you don't really have to tell people, this is 1977. We had never seen anything like this before. We had never seen special effects like this before because they still hold up.
Speaker: Yeah. You know what i mean? It's just, it's it's amazing. part Well, we think they still hold up, but we can't see it in its original form anymore. So we assume they still hold up. maybe You got to get an old VHS copy. Yeah, I don't know. I think that would be really hard to find.
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Speaker: Let's move on to to Annie Hall, which won in 1977. And, Glynis, what do you have to say about about Annie Hall? Annie Hall's good movie. Really, maybe even a great movie. it's It's both a good movie and a great movie. There aren't the flaws in it that Star Wars has. Like, the acting is really good. This is a movie I think of as this is sort of a the template for the modern rom-com, except for I'm just going to give away the ending. You should watch this. They're like, they don't get together in the end. So it's not technically in my mind, a rom-com like rom-com. You have to get to the together at the end. correct But it's very, you know, where is the goodbye girl felt really dated watching that. Like you said, Dylan, it was this very New Yorkie boho kind of artsy people. 70s. Yeah. It's, it's, it feels very dated. um
Speaker: Annie Hall does not feel dated in the same way, i don't think. Good point. um Even though it is, of course, set in a different time frame. But you've got this very quirky um Annie Hall character.
Speaker: um what it we just read what that stood for. Oh, he wanted to call the movie Anne Hedonia? Yeah, which means inability to experience happiness. Right. But Diane Keaton's real name is Diane Hall. She had to change the Keaton for SAG rules.
Speaker: Oh, that's funny. But an and Annie Hall is obviously a play on Anne Hedonia. Yeah. But just fit that, also her name, I think was Diane Hall. That's so interesting. Yeah. Late Diane Keaton. Diane Keaton. Yes. R.I.P. Yeah. um Yeah, I think this is an, I'm not a big Woody Allen fan. Like i yeah I don't, I love maybe 50% or less of his movies, but. Wow.
Speaker: Yeah. um This is a pretty good one. yeah, I think the acting is great. i think I think ah Diane Keaton is sort of inventing modern acting for for women in these kinds of movies. um She's not perfect. She's kind of quirky. um She's messy. She's messy. She's the hot suit the original hot mess.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know. It's... um It's very funny. They've got sort cutaways that, you know, Alvy in his youth about like, you know, the the sun is getting closer and closer to the earth and eventually, what's that got to do with your homework? You know, great great lines like that. ah Yeah, I think this is also a movie you could watch. Now, this is interesting, though. It's a movie that I don't remember much about every time i watch it. i I don't know. I don't have a great movie memory. It's true.
Speaker: Possibly the memory of a fruit fly, but I... Every time I watch it, I'm like, what's the deal on these two again? Oh, yeah. So I tried to really pay attention well re when we rewatched it this time. um But it is. That's what the movie's about is what what's the deal with these two? What's the deal with these That is it. This is creepy business. The plot is secondary, right? and Yeah. right Yeah. And it's just sort of also like um introducing sort of neurotic New York types, right? um That was the year for that between the goodbye girl. Anyhow, there's probably some other ones out there. um yeah if you're not a huge Woody Allen fan I would say give this movie a try anyway because it's kind of ah it's more delightful and whimsical than I mean I guess a lot of his movies can be like that but I don't know I just think there's something kind of nice about this movie that's that's maybe not in his other later movies so yeah I like it I like Annie Hall a lot
Speaker: and Yeah, i I like this movie too. I can see the genius the genius behind it. um I've always thought it's, if I had to say something negative about it, I think in my opinion, it's a ah little overrated maybe. But but i I do see i do see you know what other people see in it. um I have to admit, the first time I saw it, I was i i saw it i was really...
Speaker: i was i was a lot younger and I didn't really understand relationships like this. and Did you see it when it came out? No, but it was probably a good five years after it came out, I'm guessing. And I did i i had no clue. i you know it's a But getting older, um i can appreciate the the fact that relationships are complicated and that's that's what this movie is about. Relationships are complicated and what's the deal with them? um you know, why doesn't she want to do the things that I want to do? And why do I not want to do the things that she wants to do? And why are we not compatible in every way? Because we like each other and we're good friends. And, um you know Does friendship have to be part of the relationship or is it all just about you know loving each other? you know what are the What are the different layers of relationships that you have to go through to form a successful relationship? I think there's a lot a lot of subplots within the plot. Not subplots meaning like other you know other action in the movie, but other thoughts. Like themes. Themes, thank you. That's a better word. Themes. I think there are other themes in the movie that um are brought up that are not in-your-face kind of themes. um they they They can just be ascertained by watching this movie multiple times, I think. um I do think you need to see it more than once, and I think you can appreciate the genius of the movie seeing it more than once. I think the two two of them, Annie Hall and Alvy Singer, do have chemistry, and the role was written specifically for Diane Keaton,
Speaker: Woody Allen is um not only the writer and the director, he's the star of the movie. So when you write a movie for a specific person, chances are you're going to have chemistry with that person. um So that's a success. um But he's you know there's different different things in this movie to like cinematography. They use one set of cinematography for Los Angeles, as they do for New York. New York is a little darker, it damper. um And l L.A., of course, is brighter and sunnier. um
Speaker: So they they kind of go back and forth like in in this movie. Lots of dialogue. They sit and talk. They walk and talk. they um They do everything and talk at the same time. So it's very dialogue heavy. which makes for a 90-minute movie because it's very difficult to write full-out dialogue for a full two hours. So I think it was as long as it needed to be with the 90-minute length.
Speaker: um Interestingly enough, it originally had a murder mystery in it when on the first write. They took it out and made it Manhattan Murder Mystery with Diane Keaton. And the initial writing was never meant to be about a relationship, but it was being made As it was being made, it was obvious that but this is where this movie should go, and that's what it is about, what is the relationship between the two the two of them and how it ah how it pans out. So I liked it. um I would recommend it.
Speaker: It's considered a classic. It's considered one of the best movies ever made. It's it's on a lot of critics' lists of their top 100 in a variety of places. So I think you should go see it.
Speaker: Dylan? It's like an existential Marx Brothers movie. Like there's a lot of slapstick and a lot of verbal repartee, which is hilarious, but like it's very existential about the meaning of life and the meaning of love and meaning of relationships. um i I think it's a flawless movie, frankly.
Speaker: um And by that, I mean it delivered its execution exactly how it wanted to at every step. But I also do think it is one of the greatest movies ever made. Okay.
Speaker: ah Woody Allen is at his finest as an actor. He, again, is not an actor. He's Woody Allen. He's Woody But he wrote, as you said, Rob, the role with hit himself in mind. And he shows himself being in a very unflattering light, which is a credit. yeah I do like when these auteurs kind of show themselves as like very flawed people where they could have gone the opposite. They could have Mel Gibson and show themselves as real heroic. Instead, when it's a Woody Allen character,
Speaker: or a Warren Beatty or Clint Eastwood. They kind of show themselves in very unflattering lights, which I really appreciate the play with their characters. um it's one' ah Every time I've seen it, I've probably seen it dozen times. I still laugh at it. I find it extremely funny in a very grown-up way. But again, there's elements of slapstick, like with the lobsters or the bumper cars or things like that. better yeah As a child, i I laughed my head off that.
Speaker: um I think... like you said, Gladys, good point. It's the same timeframe, kind of the same territories. Goodbye girl, but it doesn't seem dated at all, which I think is a testament to the talent behind it. good yes It is a better director. It is better acting. It is like Rob said, better cinematography. So it's like, Oh, it's the same territory, but it's clearly superior. Yeah.
Speaker: The side character, like Carol Kane's in it. She's great. Like even the the minor actors, Paul Simon is is hilarious and is basically a cameo as like a scumbag record producer. basics he's He's great. Christopher Walken. Oh, what a wonderful turn before the deer hunter playing basically ah a psycho. It's like, oh, so good. So Alan surrounds up a top talent and I think it shows. And Uh, you can, from this, you can see why Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson and Woody Allen Al Pacino all fell in love of Diane Keaton. Like she, she's fucking wonderful in this. It's like, she's so wonderful and she's a great actress, but, um, she does deserve to have gotten the Oscar for this and be remembered for this, that even with all her other great roles.
Speaker: um that were before this and after this, like Reds and The Godfather and Looking for Mr. Goodbar. She's just perfect in this. So yeah, no, I think it's a flawless movie. Whether you may like it or not, that's up to you. And like Glenna said, maybe it's not a traditional rom-com because they don't get together. But as she also said, it does set the template for a lot of rom-coms since.
Speaker: There's no Harry Met Sally without this. There's no Sleepless in Seattle without this. correct It does set that kind of template of like, this isn't like... this isn't Deborah Carr and Cary Grant. These are really flawed, kind of annoying characters, but you end up rooting for them.
Speaker: And this kind of sets that that um that template, even though they don't get together in the end, which maybe Glenn is right. Maybe it's not a traditional rom-com. Maybe it's just, it's ah like I say, existential Marx Brothers picture.
Speaker: um But I think everyone should see it. want to see where a lot of modern rom-com tropes come from. This is probably the right movie. If you don't mind me going first, I might as well just say what I think about what should have won Best Picture in 1977. And I'm going to go with Star Wars because um for the reasons we we all kind of eloquently said earlier about the franchise, its lasting effect in history, um i I don't think they had the foresight in 1977 to really see what picture is going to last, what picture is going to be around the longest.
Speaker: It won six Oscars, and um it's not like it didn't win anything that year. I mean, six is a pretty good amount of Oscars to win. I think a lot of times when they give Oscars to a movie for its technical prowess, they don't necessarily always give the best picture out to that person, that movie, I should say. And they, you know, they they kind of overlook it. And I think it was overlooked this year. I think it should have should have won best picture. I mean, the the just pick the music in itself was an event. you know Did it win for music or no?
Speaker: john williams i believe in one um i don't know glennis you know i think oh i never pay attention to the music in movies oh it should if it didn't it should have i mean the music itself was just unbelievable um the franchise you know it was became a franchise and was sold to disney in 2012. you know you don't hear of annie hall having a sequel or you know being sold to disney I mean, this movie was dubbed into the the language of Navajo.
Speaker: You know i mean? that That just says it all right there. Yeah. um You know, they want their Star Wars, too. You know, they they they but they they don't not I'm not trying to slight any hall at all. It's it's great in its own right. But it happened to come out the year of Star Wars. So I'm not picking it for Best Picture. So Rob, you are picking Star Wars unequivocally.
Speaker: I am picking Star Wars um unequivocally, without a doubt, for a variety of reasons. So what do you guys think? i I do want to say, don't think the Academy necessarily got it wrong by picking Annie Hall, but I am picking Star Wars too. okay Because, and and honestly, this was such a game time decision because i i always wanted to pick Star Wars.
Speaker: But I can see where Annie Hall is just a very good, very, very good piece of art where everything is, like you said, it's flawless. Everything's coming together. But...
Speaker: I think you can't separate how amazing the legacy of star Wars. And then the big, the impact at the time of how huge it was and how beloved it was at the time. And it's still the movie I enjoy the most.
Speaker: Like I, if you said you want to watch star Wars this afternoon, be like, yeah, that sounds fun. I, I don't have that same feeling about Andy Hall. Um, so this, I, I am bringing in my personal, I don't always base it on which movie I like the best. It's,
Speaker: I think what movie should win. i think it's i think for me it's Star Wars. It's just... good Yeah. it's that was This was a hard one because I do think Annie Hall is a very good movie. And i don't think they necessarily got it wrong. just It was impossible to know how big Star Wars is going to be. And the reason it's so big is it is so beloved. And it's a good, great movie.
Speaker: So i think i if I were to do over that year's voting, I would... Definitely go with Star Wars. If you were asked me what I wanted to watch, Glennis, I'd say, oh, I probably never have to watch Star Wars again. I'd like to watch Andy Hall again, especially as an adult. And I think, like you said, Glennis, this wasn't an egregious mistake like some other years we've done. We're were like, what the The mistakes were the nominees. Yeah, the mistakes were the nominees. This might have been an incredibly tight year, and we might be discussing it slightly different if things like Sad-Eyed Fever, or Close Encounters had been nominated. But alas and alack, they weren't.
Speaker: And i think I think almost any other year in the past 50 years, Annie Hall would be the clear winner. We just did 1988. Annie Hall's been in every movie that came out. course. Yes. yeah So, I mean, I think any other year, Annie Hall could probably be any other movie. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: But for all the reasons you said, Star Wars is like the clear winner. um And that's saying something because I do like Andy Hall. I do think it's flawless. And I think it would win again every other year. It would probably win against whoever, you know.
Speaker: um But still but leaving aside the cultural impact of Star Wars, leaving aside the cinematic impact of Star Wars, it's just a great movie. And I think the Academy should actually be congratulated for having the foresight to even nominate it. I think at least they knew enough to say this is something That's a good point.
Speaker: Right? We usually complain. Like, they didn't nominate 2001, which was equally groundbreaking. They finally got around to Star Wars, where it's like, i i again, I think they deserve a pat on the back for seeing something new and going, we can't deny this. Like, this is amazing, you know? Right.
Speaker: Star Wars looms large for every generation since. So I think for our generation and every generation afterwards, the Star Wars thing is like, no, that's what a movie is.
Speaker: It's Star Wars. That's what movies are. Star Wars, you know? And you can nitpick and say, well, no, you know, there's better movies and there's better actors. And that's all true. But sometimes cinema isn't about all that. It's about the total feeling.
Speaker: And Glenis, I would agree you. Maybe I, you know, bring your personal feelings in, but these are billions of people's personal feelings that Star Wars is amazing, you know? Right. And we just have, in fact, so it's not even our personal feeling. We're one of a billion, if not billions who agree, right? Yeah. We're not original on this thought. we're not original. It's not like, yeah, it's, we're not being esoteric or anything. No, this is, yeah it's a, it's a phenomenon that's almost like Rob said beyond cinema. And that's very rare.
Speaker: So I think it's a clear winner. It's not so much that the Oscars got it wrong. Um, But Star Wars is just one of those cultural and cinematic touchstones that comes along once in a generation, maybe once every 50 years. I don't know.
Speaker: So I think it it definitely deserved to win that year. And there's very few years it wouldn't have deserved to win. There's very few movies it it would lose to, honestly. So yeah, I agree with you too, Star Wars.
Speaker: Okay, so three for three for Star Wars. um Wow. Oscar. Yeah. like Two years in a row, right? Two episodes in a row. Didn't we all pick Rain Man? Yeah. Yeah, we all picked Rain Man, which agreed with the Oscars. But this year, we disagreed unanimously. So yeah, yeah the more we the more we talk, the more we agree with each other, perhaps. Yeah, let's see about next year.
Speaker: We'll see. Yeah, next year, by the way, is 1990. So now it's a good segue to talk about 1990 a little bit on the five. Which is going to be next series, next year. This is going to be season three. Season three. Season three. Season three opener.
Speaker: Opener is going to be 1990. So the winner of that year was Dances with Wolves. And the other four nominees were Awakenings, Ghost, Godfather Part III, and Goodfellas.
Speaker: So think that was good year for movies. You got some time to watch these movies. So get on it. These are movies you should Geez. Yeah. These are movies should see. you haven't seen them, see all five these movies. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's going to be a good debate. I am really curious about I'm looking forward to hearing what I have to say. Yeah. The rest of us less so.
Speaker: z yeah Yeah. All right. um Now don't so don't forget our email address. Yeah. Don't forget the email address. Yeah. The Oscars podcast at gmail.com. And I guess that's a wrap on this week. You guys have anything else to say? ah Fun season.
Speaker: Good stuff. ah For all you German listeners out there, try and make sure you see the Oscar favorites because as usual, every season we do that year's Oscar nominees. So start getting on that.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll have the 10 movies to see, or supposedly 10, predictably 10, for 2025. We'll have that in and why them moon February. Were there 10 movies that could even be nominated at this point? There were not. Oh, my goodness. wow They'd be digging deep for this one. so digging Maybe they'll go back to five. Who knows? I wish. but thank you all for listening, and we appreciate it, and happy movie watching.
Speaker: you
