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Does Italy Have A Youth Problem? Interview With Italy U17 Match Analyst Andrea Loiacono (Ep. 440)
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Fresh off of winning EURO 2024 with Italy U17, the Italian Football Podcast interviews the Azzurrini Match Analyst Andrea Loiacono on everything from how good Francesco Camarda and Mattia Liberali can become, who to watch out for in the Italy U19's including Simone Pafundi, to why the pathway to the Serie A for young Italian players is so hard, what can be done and much much more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another interview episode of the Italian Football Podcast. My name is Nima Tabale, and today we are joined by a very special guest. He is a match analyst with the Italy Under 17 national team that won the Euros earlier this summer. So welcome to the Italian Football Podcast, Andrea Loiacono. How are you doing, Andrea? Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. um I'm fine. Now we are preparing the next season. So we have ready for the next season. Yes, you are. and And I mean, first of all, let's start with that.
Italy's Under 17 Euro Victory
00:00:44
Speaker
um You know, first of all, congratulations on winning the Euros. Thank you. How was it to win that tournament?
00:00:51
Speaker
it was a It was a dream. It was a dream. ah We had the first 117 Italian national team that wins the Euro Cup. So, an absolute dream for us. That was a really um a big job for the ah by the staff. So e it was incredible. It was incredible. Absolutely. um This this group of under seven the under 17 team, how special are they? And do you think many of them will have big careers ahead of them? Yes, I hope for the for them. I think that
00:01:42
Speaker
when when you win something, and even the friendly tournaments, is because ah you have a good team behind. So um I think there are a lot of ah good players and and I think many of them and they can achieve something important in the future in the professional football. Well, let's speak about
Spotlight on Francesco Camarda
00:02:09
Speaker
some of them. We let's start with Francesco Camarda, who just signed a contract with Milan Futuro. um He is the Joiello, the jewel of the under 17 team, and he's now with the under 19 as well ah in the Euros, has had a fantastic tournament. um I mean, first of all, what makes him such a special talent, in your opinion?
00:02:31
Speaker
of course now is the most famous player in the of our group. I think he's special because ah and he's a He is hungry. and He wants to become a professional football player. yeah So um he prepares himself and to be a football player. You can see these things when he prepares the games because he trains hard. and He wants to know everything finger about the opponent.
00:03:14
Speaker
So I think these ah these are the the things that ah um and can do the difference in professional football. So I think this is his best talent. for me is this. bo is Of course a really good player, and he's a gold machine and and he has a really good technique, but I think and the thing that makes him special is his hunger.
00:03:53
Speaker
There are some others
Mattia Liberale's Unique Traits
00:03:54
Speaker
as well. I wanted to ask you about Mattia Liberale, who Alessandro Costa Corta, the Milan legend, called the Italian Philphoden. What, in your opinion, makes him special? and he's ah I know him ah since ah he was 115, so I know him very well. and For me he's a football genius because and he has a fantastic technique, he has a vision and
00:04:27
Speaker
yeah also um He sees something that the other players don't see for me. so he He's really a genius of football for me, even yeah if he's only 17 now. my and I think he will be a really good player in the future. Is there anyone else in the under 17 team that won the Euros this summer that you want to, that you think specifically as an individual is someone you can, that you want to, you know, raise?
Other Promising Under 17 Players
00:05:03
Speaker
We've mentioned Camarda Liberale.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, I don't like to speak about only one player, but I think that a lot of really good players, for example, we had and five of our other guys in the best 11 of the tournament. So ah I think that ah a lot of them can be professional football players in the in the top level. and I think the the two goalkeepers, for example, Pecina and Longoni, for me, they will be and a goalkeeper of Syria.
00:05:53
Speaker
for sure. and And I don't know, maybe and the captain, Moscone, he's also a great player and he played a fantastic tournament. I wanted to ask, how did you all celebrate winning the Euros? Did you do anything specifically like something fun? like what What did you do? and No, we we didn't. ah Almost nothing, because ah and we we came back ah in the hotel at 3am, so ah all the and the clubs ah were were closed.
00:06:33
Speaker
and
00:06:36
Speaker
and It's a joke, but... The play has only 17, so we we cannot do, of course, nothing, but ah we celebrated the win in in the hotel. We we stayed the together and until the the the morning, so we celebrated all together, the but in the hotel. Nice. um I want to talk a little bit about your job.
Role of a Tactical Analyst
00:07:07
Speaker
I wanted to, if you can specifically tell us exactly what your job with the Italy under 17 team is, what is it you do? but What are your responsibilities and so on? Yes. um ah Basically, I am a member of the of the coaching staff. So my role is um to to support the the coach and um obviously the staff.
00:07:34
Speaker
with the the analysis of the of the opponents in the pre-match. So we study and tactically and individually the the opponent. and we and we we We do these reports for the staff and for the for the players. Usually we produce ah some videos to to show to to the players ah one and
00:08:11
Speaker
a collective video so um in which we present the opponent and some ah individual clips ah of the opponent and we show these clips ah to our players. and During the match ah we are in the stands and we communicate with the with the staff in the on the bench because ah of course from the stands you can see better the the game.
00:08:46
Speaker
and in ah in a tactical view, for the tactical point. And we communicate with the with the staff. And then we analyze ah in after the match, and we analyze all the things that happened in the in the game, during the game. and Because ah we want to know if there was something something wrong. in We did something wrong in the game. and And also we produce some ah data insights and after the game. So um basically the this is ah this is my job.
00:09:30
Speaker
So do you, for example, sit down with the players of the coach and give suggestions on what they should do? I mean, how i I'm trying to understand how direct a role you as a data analyst have in the actual decision making. I'm not um um ah a data analyst. I am more of a tactical analyst. In Italy, we have ah two two rows. That analyst ah is more the on um the data and we are the more
00:10:08
Speaker
technical collaborator, technical ah um technical coach, tactical coach. So um it depends ah on the coach. With the the under 17, for example, I have a direct approach with the with the with the players. We speak about ah the characteristics of the opponent and we speak about and the the strategy of the game with the players. So we do these ah this meeting ah with all the staff and all the players, and we have also the individual meeting with the some of the players ah based ah on on their roles, based on their characteristics.
00:10:58
Speaker
so We have a direct approach with the staff and with the players. We we share ah every information in our staff.
Data's Role in Football Analysis
00:11:09
Speaker
Well i'm I'm glad you brought that up about the difference between you as a match analyst and you have a data and and and analytics team as well. yes I mean from your perspective as a match analyst, how important do you think data and analytics have become in football? um And what advantages do they bring to a team, to the players, to the managers, et cetera? Now it's absolutely important to have a data department that can help you. and Because ah in this way you can have more information about your team and about the opponent, of course. I think the the most important thing
00:11:51
Speaker
ah is to interpretate is the right term yeah interpret yeah interpret interpret the data and because ah every game is different, every team is different and every player is different. So you cannot see only the data and you cannot base ah your analysis of the opponent, for example, and only on the data. So you need to mix all the information. You need to watch the game and you need
00:12:32
Speaker
when you watch the game, also watch the datas to do a better analysis. To and understand what it is you're watching and understand the numbers better. Exactly. If you only focus on the datas, you can forget something. So it's absolutely important that the data department and the match analysis department collaborate with others because and I think this is the only way and the only way to to work together. The only way is to work together. Absolutely. And this is something I always say on our podcast when people just come armed with statistics. I'm like, well, sometimes I don't care what the statistics say. You have to watch the game. I mean, you need both of them. what one one One without the other is is useless.
00:13:28
Speaker
um what but If we're just talking key data points and underlying metrics, what would you say are the most important key data points and underlying metrics to assess players and teams in football today? I think ah the is not ah and it depends on what you want. so ah it depends ah what the the the club wants and what the the coach wants. So um in the the data that you that you that you want to to see are based on the the style of the coach, for example. So and it depends on his ideas. It's not ah something
00:14:23
Speaker
that works for everybody. There are clubs that watch some datas and there are other clubs that watch other datas just because ah they have different ah football ideas. So it's not a fixer. No. But could you give an example of, for example, at and at the Italy under 17 team, what was the key data points and underlying metrics for you guys? We watch, ah ah for example, the ball recoveries in the opponent's half. It's something that we watch a lot.
00:15:02
Speaker
because we want to press side so ah the border cover is in the opponent's half in the defensive face is a the most important data for us and in for example in the offensive face we watch a lot and the number of of key passes and and the for example we We don't watch a lot of the expected goals, for example. yeah okay That's interesting. I mean, just to tie back to your point about, you know, you need the match analyst team and the data team to work together. um There's been some criticism of how data has been and stats are being used in football today, for example, during Euro 2024.
00:15:48
Speaker
There's been many, many people have said, you know, we've had Bielsa come out and not just talk about Euro 2024, but football today, Kaffoor, Ronaldinho about Brazilian national team, that it's, it's, there's been a, that the quality, the individual technical quality and skill of the players um has decreased now compared to 20, 30 years ago. um And that this is partly the the discussion that has been made is that data and analytics is being overused to the extent that footballers now are a little bit more robotical in the sense that, for example, they're taught to never shoot from long range, to never do things that have a maybe high risk, low reward or a low low low percentage chance of scoring, for example, from long shots.
00:16:35
Speaker
So as a result, you see more and more players do the same thing and that football loses the individual skill as a result of that. um First of all, would you agree with that assessment? And secondly, specifically, is it something that is told to young players that, you know, don't take long shots, play like this instead? a Exactly. i never I don't remember a coach that said to a young player, don't shoot from distance, honestly. I don't remember a coach that ah that said something like this.
00:17:15
Speaker
and I don't know the the quality if it's changed in the years because ah I'm young, I'm 26, so I don't remember any years and how was it the the quality. But for me, is not the the fault is not the of the data, from honestly. and Maybe. I'm thinking right now on this point, but maybe one answer can be that now the rhythm of the game is, we have more rhythm. Yeah, higher. It's a higher tempo, higher rhythm. We have a higher rhythm. So the ball is always covered by an opponent.
00:18:09
Speaker
And it's difficult to shoot from distance because you have always opponent between the ball and the and the and the net. So and maybe it's one of the answers. If you can watch the the the tactical ah the tactical point on on this question. and Maybe it's for this. and All the the teams as a and i have higher pressure on the ball and I think this is a the the answer. I don't know if there's a if the quality is lower, and but
00:18:58
Speaker
Again, I don't remember an approach that says... No, don't shoot. honestly ah i don't think is and I don't think the fault is for the data. um No, but i mean if we if we compare today, the the i mean for example, the classic number 10, the the Todis, the Bajos, you know, that that kind of player, the even the Zidans and Maradonnas, we don't have them in that instance, you know, anymore. And okay, if if it's le if we put aside the the data discussion, could it be a situation where youngsters and teenagers have skill and technical ability
00:19:42
Speaker
quote-unquote coached out of them, if that makes sense, that it's more about you want players that follow the system rather than do the individual skill and unexpected, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah maybe there are some cases in which the the coach wants to um to um to give to the players a lot of informations and maybe this can be a problem. If I watch our under-17, we have some of the old number 10s, like, for example, Liberale, but even Chardi from Red Bull Salzburg or Landy from Empoli. They have the characteristics of ah and and the the typical number 10. But, of course, now the tactical tasks ah for the for the players
00:20:39
Speaker
ah Every player has ah some tactical tasks. Maybe in the past the number 10 was ah and not regulated in the defensive phase, for example. And and maybe now they have ah more more tasks to do in the in the pitch. and But I don't know if ah um there is a real problem. and about the the number 10s, I don't know. not mean that's just That was just an example of a role that I think is very pertinent, a very clear example of one role that no longer really exists. i mean It's it's it's not not like it used to anyway. um Let's talk a little bit about Italy.
Challenges for Young Italian Players
00:21:27
Speaker
um um let's Let's talk about the the the yeah the the youngster problem. One of the things we talk about on this pod a lot is the fact that we feel that there's no pathway to the Serie A for young Italian players. um I mean, one of the biggest reasons perhaps that, you know, but lots of people said that, you know, one of the reasons Italy flopped at Euro 2024 is that There's not enough younger players of quality to choose from. And the reason for that is despite Italy being reigning under 17, under 19 European champions, Vice Campioni del Mundo for under 20.
00:22:07
Speaker
so yeah you know, Italy do produce good quality ah young players ah by comparison with other countries but when it comes to getting a chance in the Serie A it's really low. I mean only one or two of those under 19 champions last year played regularly in the Serie A last season and many youngsters are being forced to go to Switzerland or Germany or elsewhere whilst if because if they stay in Italy they either sit on the bench or they play in the Celia B or Celia Chi and the standard isn't high enough there.
00:22:39
Speaker
and And one thing that we've been very critical of on this podcast is that there doesn't seem to be a pathway to Serie A teams, like whereas in Spain, for example, and I'm not just talking about Lamini Amal, who is or Nico Williams, who are special talents, but just overall, there seems to be a more clearer pathway to La Liga in Spain than there is to Serie A for Italian teams. of Italian youth rather. So my question is, I mean, you work as a match analyst with the under-17s, you know these guys, you refer to Liberale as a football genius. I mean, don't you think that this is a big problem in Italian football? And that, I mean, is there a frustration among people who like yourself work with the under-17s under-19s that these fantastically talented youngsters don't get the chances in senior football in the Serie A?
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, here I can know what is the um the the main problem, and but maybe you you hit the point. I think that in the the youth teams, we have ah a lot of ah really, really good players, of course. You said all the the results in the last seasons. So we have a a lot of quality. and I don't know what is the the the main problem and if and but because
00:24:14
Speaker
Exactly. They don't have the the chance to play at the higher level, many of these players. Honestly, I don't know why, because I just work with the under-17, I just work youngs. The only thing that I can say is that that ah we can watch ah with with hope to to our future because and there are a lot of great players that and I think in one or two years ah we we can watch them in the in the
00:24:58
Speaker
national team so we can see to the future with with hope, with Hygum I think. Absolutely, um I mean if it if you were to, I mean I understand you that you don't you can't comment on why it is the way that the you know the Serie A clubs seem to prepare. I don't know why, I don't know why. But it must be frustrating for you for someone who works with these players and see how talented they are that they don't get a chance in the Serie A. and Maybe i'm a I'm lucky because ah I worked with, like I said, for some good players and the some of them, so they made his debut this season. And for this, I can say we can see to the future with the with hope because this season made his debut
00:25:53
Speaker
For example, Matthew Manini for the Isidoma made his debut in the Ebropalig. Leonardo Mendicino made his debut with the Atalanta in Serie A and the Europa League, Francesco Camarda, and I think that the next season, many of them and we will do their debut, so maybe I'm lucky because ah and I trained Simone Pafuni, for example. yeah baffoonly I trained ah a lot ah of players that now are
00:26:32
Speaker
are making his debut. ah they're they boot So maybe maybe I'm lucky, I don't know. I mean, if if i mean do you think that maybe italy Italian clubs should do a bit more like Spanish clubs in the sense that they they take a risk on youth? Is that something you would like to see? I mean, we we've we've seen lots of, for example, many of our listeners have said, well, why can't, you know, if it were possible, why not have a situation where you kind of say that you need to have at least you need to play I don't know or under 19 players in every city else would have to play at least 500 minutes a season or something like that like would you do do you think something like that is is is is a good suggestion because
00:27:18
Speaker
I mean, of course you can't just throw in young people headlessly into the Serie A, but there still should be more of a pathway. Do you getga um do you understand what I mean? I don't know. It's not my job to find the conclusion, of course, but I think every country has ah its own culture, football culture, and we have to find our own way. and solve this problem. But I don't know in which way. and One thing i can I can say and I think is we need to be more
00:27:56
Speaker
patient with the young youngs. I think this is the most important thing. I agree. I agree. I mean, one thing that Spain does, which I think is really interesting and that is that all of their youth teams at international level, they play pretty much the same formation and style as the senior teams, which in turn makes the step up to the senior team easier. Do you think that could be a solution, perhaps? ah is ah almost ah the the same that that we do. okay We have a technical coordinator, Maurizio Vichidi. I don't know if you if you know him. What's his name, sorry? Maurizio Vichidi. He's our technical coordinator. He's the coordinator ah from
00:28:44
Speaker
under 15 to under 21. So we have not been collated with a tactical system, but we we share the same principles in all the the national teams. and i think this is ah and And I think for this, we did so well in in these years because we have the same principles in all the in all the national teams. or and Every player knows exactly what we want.
00:29:24
Speaker
some from them. So it's almost the same thing that we do in the national teams. But we are not inculated to our system. for no again we thoughtwork too We can ah change ah based on the characteristics ah of the players. um Speaking of players that you've coached at Under-17, some of them are now with the Under-19s who are playing the Euros and they're having a great Euros. They're in in Northern Ireland. They're in the semi-finals where they'll play against Spain. um What do you make of this Italy Under-19 team?
00:29:59
Speaker
water What do you think of this Italy Under-19 team that's now in the semi-finals of the Euros with playing Spain in the semi-finals? I think it's a ah really good team. I coached the year of 2006. um and I think there are a lot of good players, a great coach. I worked with with him last season and I know of course all the members of the staff and I know that behind the team there is a a lot of work.
00:30:35
Speaker
ah So it's well-prepared for this semi-final. Of course, Spain is a is a good team, ah we we know, but I think we are the the on the same level and it's a 50-50 game because is a semi-final of the European Championship. So and every team has ah the the same chance to to win, but we are stronger, we are the well prepared, so and we we can we can beat them, of course. but Let's hope we do. um if we you know Are there any players in this under-19 team that you particularly think may have big futures ahead of them?
00:31:19
Speaker
and Of course, ah um the most famous player I think is Pafun, but that is also Fabio Quiero Día, for example, that made his debut in Bundesliga two seasons ago. and I know better the 2006 year. ah The players born in 2006? Yeah, players ah born and in 2006 because I coached them in the under 16 and under 17 and I think that
00:31:56
Speaker
old ah of ah All that are now in the in the under-19 can do something important, like Matthew Manini, that made his debut for Icedoma last year, and marcodoo similar paffoon of coats and Matt Matt Cotto-Mano I think is a really good player, he did a great goal ah in the in the last match, I think he's a great guy and he's a really, really good player. yeah You will see. Well, I hope we do. um Just one final question. Do you think Francesco Camardan now is good enough or prepared, not good enough, but ready mentally as a whole to play in the Serie A next season?
00:32:49
Speaker
I don't know, I think he will start with under the 23. I think he's a professional football. So he's a tough league in Italy. The but division is a tough league. And I think that ah and in in In the third league you can play pairs to the Serie A. I think in ah some months you can be prepared and ready to play ah even in Serie A, I think, yes.
00:33:27
Speaker
And um well, ah finally, before we let you go, um the Serie A season is upon us.
Predictions for the Serie A Season
00:33:33
Speaker
the Antonio Conte is at Napoli. It's all the talk. there's There's so much interesting things happening in the Serie A. I know we're in only in July and there's a month left of the Mercato. But if the Mercato close today, we're recording this on the 23rd of ju July. um If the Mercato close today, who do you think will will win the Serianic season? i don't know I don't know, but I can say that I'm a big fan of Antonio Conte because ah I'm from Bari in the south of Italy. And he won ah the the the second division in 2009.
00:34:15
Speaker
with Bari, didn't he? Bari, yes. sir With Bonucci, Ranocchio, part of the team, weren't they? but Bonucci ah joined the the team the other year when Conte left the club. But he won the second division with Ranocchio, Badrieto, noia butlet and the all that group so I'm a big fan of him for this and I like ah ah his way of coaching so I hope Antonio Conte can win the the league next season. He played a 4-2-4 didn't he back then? Yeah exactly, he played 4-2-4.
00:34:56
Speaker
yeah And then he changed it when he came to Juve playing a 3-5-2. But it's still his Calcio vertical, isn't it? In Barri, it was a fantastic year because and he played a fantastic offensive football and smashed the CDB that year. I remember, I remember. Well, yeah, I mean, it's going to be fascinating. Who do you think will be Capo Canoneira? Do you think Laotaro or do you think someone knew that we haven't heard of? He is a special player. For me, he is ah he's a fantastic player. I hope he can win the Cup of Caroneira.
00:35:46
Speaker
I see is Kamaka. Nice one. Well, thank you very much for for your time. I know you're really busy. Thank you so much for but taking time out to do this. um And if people want to find you on social media, what's your Twitter handle so people can follow you? ah We're obviously going to link to it too. ah Yeah, Andrea underscore Loyak six number and is my Twitter account. Of course, I have also Instagram and LinkedIn. Nice one. um Well, I will make sure to link to all of those. Thank you so much again for coming on. I wish you the best. I know you're preparing for the next season. So.
00:36:26
Speaker
yeah Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Thank you. And everybody else will be back tomorrow for a Milan Mercato deep dive with Italian journalist Vito Angelou. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. Ciao ciao.