Speaker
Because technically we can be transferable. We can move ourselves into any culture and assimilate more or less seamlessly. So, yeah, what what I'm i'm trying trying to to say say โ no no, i've I've forgotten forgotten what i'm trying to say now but we're basically sort of circling around the negative side of things again and i want to bring it back to the positive so obviously in hunter gatherer settings uh for example or lots of other prehistoric cultures being neurodivergent would i think have been less stressful in terms of social pressure to remember to well do your taxes do your paperwork to pay the bills to do all those sorts of things i i like to think that there was less immediate pressure um but then again i we did an episode recently on theophrastus um his obtuse man and in that this um stereotyped ancient athenian character uh was displaying all sorts of hilariously adhd i'm going to call it i'm sorry if anybody's suffering with this at the minute, but those wonderful aspects of ADHD where you, I think Theophrastus is an obtuse man. He put salt in his food twice. He was supposed to go to court and forgot about it and went to the countryside. So I'm sure there was ever have adhd been a pain in the backside but um it's nice to think about the positive aspects of of neurodivergence and the creativity the out-of-the-box thinking the the energy the seeing the world from a different perspective do you see more of that in school than you do the negative aspects? Or do you see it as sort of a double-edged sword and that the schools, or even the pharmaceutical industry and the medical fields are focusing on the negatives because we're seeing it as a problem and not catering enough to the talents and potential? I think it's a mixed bag, to be honest, because, again, I'm going to speak about, you know, anecdotally, I've seen children who are ADHD thrive in secondary school. That's because they've maybe found a particular mentor, teacher or subject they particularly like. You know, so you think about what's driven you to do archaeology, George. I know school, you described it earlier in this episode of it not being the best place for you, but actually, you know, something was there because it gave you the opportunity to study archaeology. You know, there was a hook and it got you in and that became your kind of interest and part of your career. So I think it's often to do with, from what you're describing when you talk about in the past you know there i wonder if difference was more appreciated or allowed so you know you may not have had the strength of being somebody who um you know we didn't have to worry about taxes but somebody would have had to think about the detail in certain groups um and then they had the big the big idea thinkers about, you know, taking maybe the tribe to the next location, you know, somebody had to, you know, kind of think, right, is it worth the risk? And we're going to, we're going to have a go and we're going to try it out. So, you know, there are definitely lots of positives and it comes out when it's allowed to shine to blossom so it might be in school it might be in a particular subject it might be in sports it might be in creative medias and arts it might be sciences it might be about you know who thought of putting us on the moon you know, know somebody somebody had had to to have have that that thought thought. and And at at the the time time, it it would would have have been been considered considered absolutely absolutely, you you know know, bonkers bonkers. and And really really, you you know, but eventually it became possible. So, you know, we need that difference, you know, and I think what is challenging is that we have a criteria, which is what focuses on the negative because often with medication and support it's done in a way that says right let's look at how it's impacting you and negatively kind of causing you problems in your life then you're going to get some help and actually wouldn't it be lovely if anybody who actually is screened and does have this neurodivergence that they are going to get help regardless of whether it's negative or not. And actually, it's going to be kind of, well, let's do this because we need to make sure that we really support everybody. And everybody has a place in the world. Like I said, everyone has a space. And so we need to kind of help everyone. I suppose the difference between a nurturing society and a society that just decides, well, this is kind of how I want everyone to be. You know, this is a very narrow set of criteria. And so I don't think until you actually get into the world of work, you realise just how diverse that is. You know, I mean, I don't know how many different types of skills and jobs are available in the world of archaeology. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So we need we need all of that. But I think if, you know, we're not harnessing a really quite a big section of society, you know, then that's a problem. Because if you want, we can always have a look as well of the actual, I suppose, signs of ADHD and autism, and then look at it as, you know, well, actually, how can that be a strength? Yes, it can also be hindrance, but it can also be a strength. And let's kind of grow towards that. Let's look at what we can do rather than what we can't do. Can we just, I think it's probably a good opportunity now just to, because we've only got sort of 10 minutes or so left. So let's just clarify and talk about some of the traits that define ADHD and autism. Kathy, can we do that? Absolutely. Okay, so let's start with ADHD then. Obviously, I've got ADHD. I'm pretty sure my kids have got ADHD. It's everywhere. I understand it from my perspective. So for somebody who's listening who isn't sure if they've got ADHD or if somebody they know or care about, what are the sort of main signs that you'd point to to help, not necessarily diagnose, but just to help them understand? Yeah. So I suppose the list is very general because we've all got aspects of this, but it's more when they all start adding up together. So signs of inattention, and that's kind of struggling to pay attention, difficulty kind of like following through on tasks, you know, kind of completion, often forgetting kind of responsibilities. So that can be, you know um forgetting to do certain chores or things at home or even forgetting to kind of turn in that piece of work that homework yeah no yeah maybe making what might seem as careless mistakes but again it's because your attention's not on not switching the tap off you you know, leaving the tap running in the bathroom or not reading the last page of a test or something like that. Stuff that you would kind of kick yourself for afterwards. And then potentially coming across as being quite disorganised. And, you know, that might be kind of losing things. You put your keys down in a different place each time and never quite knowing what coat pocket they're in. Yeah, so that's the other thing. So familiar, all of that. So that's more inattention. And then you have kind of more for the hyperactivity side of things. So you've got obviously the obvious one is difficulty sitting still. Fidgeting can often feel quite restless, you know, constant motor keeping running. Difficulty waiting a turn, you know, sitting in a queue of traffic is quite challenging and potentially being quite over-talking or finishing someone else's sentences or being kind of quite quick and in there, you know. But there's an awful lot of other things that kind of get missed but don't necessarily come up on the list that, you know, you would go through if you were to be diagnosed. So things like sleep, there's a lot of comabilities like dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, that kind of stuff.