Transcript
Speaker: All right, guys, we're live with the Savage Boston podcast here. We got I'm Scott with SavageBoston.com, here with Snooty with SavageBoston.com, and we got our our guest tonight, friend of the pod who, you know, we've been on his pod. He's been on our pod. Great guest to have on. We got Pete Collins from Fox Row Fellows Podcast.
Speaker: Pete has been down there at training camp, I think, every day so far, which is which is awesome, and it's a great guy to have on. um you know I went down there personally Saturday, which was really fun. Great to get a good a good look. but yeah man It's awesome to have have have all eyes on it and and we get to see first-person look what's going on. i think like There's a lot to touch on here. you know and and I'm not going to go off monologuing for too long to start it because there's a lot to get to. but I want to open it up with just the Kayshawn Booty and Kyle Williams drama, which...
Speaker: You know, again, I think like everyone, it was almost a foregone conclusion by myself and other people that Keishon Booty was going to be traded. And I think there's a lot of people who still think Booty will probably be traded.
Speaker: But to to open up just a question a question for perspective, how can you trade Booty? and Pete, I'll throw to you first. How can you trade him when he seems to be the guy who's making every big play in camp thus far, you know, four days in?
Speaker: I think that last part is the key part, four days in, right? Like pads aren't on yet. Shells are on today. So it got the intensity dial was noticeably turned up, maybe one click.
Speaker: There were some hits. There were some arguments. Rabel was yelling. You know, there was some intensity turn up. But Hoody's been performing. There's no doubt about it. He's arguably been the most productive receiver through the four practices. You know who also is a camp hero is Pop Douglas. And look what Pop Douglas does every year on the real football field. So, I mean, I think there's something to be taken with a grain of salt for four days of training camp with no pads on highlights, right? Like, you know, once the defensive line can actually blitz, once there's actually sacks, because Drake may throws the ball every time on that 40 yard touchdown to booty. I call it a sack to be frank with you. I don't think he gets that ball on the on the bomb today. Yeah. Yeah. There was a couple of those two, those two plays, not the one, not the 40 yard bomb. There was another big play that booty made a catch on. And I was like, I think that's a sack. And matt cabral was sitting in the stands and we were going back and forth like was that a sack was that not a sack it's just those are the things we're looking at at training camp but it's just so hard to tell like was that play real right you know so yeah some of the stuff that they're working on with aj is like short game because maybe that's where you start when you're in training camp with aj brown short and then you open it up deep you don't start with 80 yard bombs on day one right like that feels like it makes sense so i'm not so much worried about like What I'm seeing right now, what I'm seeing right now is Josh McDaniels have a healthy rotation of wide receivers. There's a thousand different combinations. He's doing a whole lot. So I'm not too much. I'm not worried about what I'm seeing, like the AJ Brown connection with Drake may. Why isn't it there? That whole question. I don't think there's any merit to that. And I wouldn't put too much stock into how good booty is doing. Right. Like, you know, I think that's just good for his trade value. Like good for the page. You know, if the Patriots are going to move them, maybe other teams are looking at this going, huh, maybe we do want to, spend ah a better fifth round pick or a fourth round pick who knows what do you think though yeah but do you think like he can in your opinion like can he play himself into not being in the trade conversation or you think like pretty much still a foregone conclusion that he's going to be dealt at some time during camp uh i don't think it's a foregone conclusion i never felt like it was a foregone conclusion but the percentage chances that he gets traded i think went down right because i think the team now values it if
Speaker: And I think if they got a phone call and they liked the offer, they would still trade them though. That's like my take. Right. But I think what the asking price is what they have to be considering in their head. Would you rather have one year of K Sean booty as, you know, a great depth wide receiver wide receiver three, you know, earn himself maybe into a wider receiver two type of a role, um, depending on usage in a Josh McDaniel system.
Speaker: But you know, like, is that worth a fifth round pick? You know, what do you get for fifth round picks? That's K-Ron Prunty this year. Would you rather K-Ron Prunty or K-Sean Booty for a year? So I think I like to think of it in those terms. Like I maybe want Booty for one year. we're making Super Bowl runs and playoff pushes, give me the depth that wide receiver over a flyer in the fifth round. So, you know, I'm in on Booty staying on the team if that's ultimately what the team wants to do. But I wouldn't be surprised if they got a call for a fourth round pick and they're like yeah, that's too good to pass up. Sorry, we're going to go send you some spot where you can be a wide receiver too.
Speaker: Snooty, are you feeling so far? Kind of seeing what's going on in camp with Booty. Yeah, I mean, I've always liked Booty. The the chemistry with um him and May is, you know, it's undeniable. I mean, for a few years now, it's only grown and it's improved every year. And it's ah quite obvious. It's quite evident in camp this year.
Speaker: I mean, that being said, it's kind of a role thing. Like, is it is it philosophically, are they going to have Brown and Booty and them on the field at the same time? Right? Like they have a number. They went so many years with no guys you could play outside. Now they have seemingly have three or four guys they want to play outside. So,
Speaker: And is Booty going to be happy with that? That's the other piece of it. This is effectively a contract year for him, right? Like this is his chance to to put up numbers and get a payday, which he hasn't had yet. He's a sixth round pick, you know, so he's going to want to give be given the opportunity to make plays.
Speaker: um so we can go get paid. And I don't blame him for that. So you have to weigh that element of it as well. Obviously, we'd love to keep them. you know I hope injuries here or elsewhere don't factor into it, but ultimately that could be a deciding factor as well. If someone goes down, all of a sudden, yeah, no, you you probably are going to keep them no matter what. um Again, unless you get bowled away with an offer, but even if you were offered a fourth round pick, right, third round pick, like what does that do for you right now?
Speaker: I think if they got a third or a fourth, though, like that in my opinion, they would still they would deal home like immediately. oh They've been asking for that for so long. sure. you know But again, like you said, theyve you just said it, they've been asking for that for so long. So clearly the league doesn't view him the same way that we do. So maybe he's more valuable here than he is somewhere else.
Speaker: And if that's the case, then you know it's ah ah it's on him and his agent to recognize that and understand that maybe he can maximize his value by staying here and playing good and someone will get hurt at some point. And you know Brown and always misses a game or two and whatever. like That's that might ultimately be the way it goes. But I mean, honestly, it's a good problem to have. How many years did we go where we had no receivers? and all of a sudden now you got you have to worry about multiple how to get them in the all like that's a great problem to have.
Speaker: I would say that, though, to to piggyback on that, I think like. I think you can just, before we go into Kyle Williams, like I think you can just feel the general improvement in talent.
Speaker: Like I was, i think I was saying that to Pete when I was, i was sitting with Pete on, on Saturday and Danny, who's in our comments we're sitting with and Matt Cabral, just shout out to some other guys. um You know, I think like you could just feel the presence of more talent when you're watching the team. like And that's what I personally like. I mean, you go back two years, the Mayo days, like that's what everyone said, man. We're like, hey, this team is kind of bereft of talent. Like this is a bottom tier roster.
Speaker: And in two years, you've got give credit to Mike Vrabel for pulling in guys that even dudes that he knows that people don't like Harold Landry, who maybe hasn't paid out in the way that people – people want. um Or like, you know, Elliot Wolf making deals and helping, obviously. i don't know how much credit people want to give Elliot Wolf, but, but yeah, like everyone's got their, their opinions. Right. But yes, I think the roster difference feels massive. They've really had a big turnover and they've added a ton of talent. So, so obviously i love that.
Speaker: um The booty stuff has been fascinating. It's still fascinating, mostly because the fan base fucking loves them. And like there, there's obviously a group of fans out there that we know we've talked to, And again, myself included, sometimes you say like, like I like booty. I just think, I think he's on the trade block. We've said it for two years. think he's on the trade block.
Speaker: People will be mad if he gets traded. I get it. I still think he's a massive trade candidate. He's on the block. Right. um and But at this point, I don't know if he just keeps showing up like this, like it almost feels difficult. I got a difficult guy to move.
Speaker: Anyway, I want to pivot quick. Right. Cause we got a lot to get to. I want to pivot quick to Kyle Williams. Okay. So that's another piece of drama. This all stemmed from one Patriot reporter's report. This was from Andrew Callahan, a friend of the program, Andrew Callahan, who said you know he he viewed wider Kyle Williams as wide receiver seven right now. okay And you know it's not like that's set in stone, but he just basically said that he's got some work to do to climb back up the depth chart.
Speaker: And I believe it it was Alex Barth who doubled down and said he he agrees with him. He said that today. He goes, yeah, he's he's seventh right now. So, Pete, what have you seen from down there? And and give me your give me your opinion right now right now on Kyle Williams and how you're you're viewing his position.
Speaker: So with Callahan and Barth, they're saying that Chisholm is ahead of Williams? Yeah, yep. I would say no. I would push back on that. But I would say he's 100% the sixth wide receiver right now.
Speaker: And Chisholm is the seventh. And then I would even say Dixon finds himself at eight. So, like, there's eight wide receivers in the mix. And obviously, you're probably taking five, six. You know, I would – some people are saying they take seven. I don't think they take seven considering all the other offensive – positions that they need to carry. But Williams isn't performing poorly. It's just the takes I think people are having about Williams is where the coaching staff is putting them. They're putting them in the second team. They're putting them on the second field. They're not giving them barely any run when Brown and Dobbs are out there. You don't see Williams in the slot ever. You know, like it just they're not giving them any of that run that you would expect. A lot of no padded training camp is attendance taking and seeing who gets run with the first team, who's running with the second team. Where did the coaches play these players? Right. yeah He hasn't dropped the ball.
Speaker: He hasn't been like out of position. Right. Like, I just don't think I've seen any brilliance out of him. um So I'm not so much worried about Kyle Williams. I'm just looking and it's very clear he's six. He is the sixth wide receiver on this team. And Chisholm is right there sniffing, you know, that sixth spot. But I just I think Kyle Williams second round pick offers you a lot more than than Chisholm the third.
Speaker: I got you. Um, soon before you go on that, um, just comment here from may faithful in the comments. He says he has a hard time imagining where Mac Holland's role is in this ah offense and no one is really talking about it.
Speaker: I think like, I think they like Matt Collins a lot. And I understand there's some, there's a little bit of dialogue like, oh, maybe Max the odd man out. I just don't think so, man. I think they love what he offers. They love, he's a huge body guy, blocks really well. Even Karen Grigian had an article alluding to him maybe being like some sort of hybrid tight end role. I don't know if that's real.
Speaker: I just think that, I think Matt Collins provides a lot of value in different ways, being a big body physical receiver. So I think to me, he's a lock. he could be a captain, man. I think he's close. yeah I had this conversation. Dan Kelly was with me today at training camp. Shout out Dan Kelly. Great follow on Twitter. But I said, this would be a great Twitter question, a great podcast conversation. Is he closer to a cut or closer to a captain? I would vote closer to being a captain. Matt Collins is then closer to not having a role on this team. And what is his role on this team? He's a blocking wide receiver. When Brown needs to come off, you send in this big bodied Hollins. Hollins can definitely fill in like an outside wide receiver role. He's excellent at blocking. He can put his hand in the ground, talk about needing someone that can block on the line of scrimmage. I think you find ways to play Hollins. Hollins was your best wide receiver in the Super Bowl. I think he definitely has a role on this team.
Speaker: Yeah. Snooty, do you want to give us your your thoughts on that? Yeah, so again, I think while they do have a lot of depth there, there's not a lot of familiarity with May. And I think Hollins has proven that he can play in this ah offense at a few different stops. He can be effective in multiple different roles. He's an ultimate team player. Yes, I know he's older. know he makes a little bit more money than some of the younger guys. But, you know, he's got some savvy, and I think you need that. And because May is still younger quarterback, right? Like year three. so you know, you still need that savvy and that, you know, understanding of of the offense to, you know, to help – bring may along in that regard because i mean you got to remember it's only second year for may in this ah offense right so a lot of the nuances and stuff he's still you know working through and you know for lack of a better term uploading kind of like into his brain and a guy who's been in the offense before and knows some of those that helps right that you can't lose that so the the locker room offensive side of that that's there um
Speaker: I think some of the stuff about Williams is ridiculous. It's been like three days of no padded practice. Like, chill the fuck out, guys. That's how I feel about some of the A.J. Brown stuff. but it's like it Same thing. That's equally as ridiculous. right It's been three days of no pads. like You really don't learn much without pads on.
Speaker: I'm going to read a tweet today from...
Speaker: friend of the pod a guy like a lot Pat's Pro and I just want to just want to get Pat's Pros tweet out there um about AJ Brown uh and he'll probably hear this so shout out Pat's Pro on Twitter he says quote unquote I'm just gonna say it booty to this point has outperformed AJ Brown in every conceivable measure Patriots may have to get uncomfortable conversations uh if May and Brown can't get on the same page Now, the tweet blew up, obviously, for good reason. Again, shout-out, Pats Pro, not trying to come out at you.
Speaker: I just think when we talk too early, man, like, first of all, AJ Brown's coming into a completely new system. This is a new system. He has to learn it. He's been studying. Like, you can see today, the times that Drake's missing AJ Brown, right, he missed him a couple times today, Pete Saw. Like, one was on, like, was supposed to have a curl on the sideline. And, you know, Brown, like, keeps running, and it looks like a bad miss. Those are things where he's not on the same page.
Speaker: That's what this is supposed to happen. This is supposed to happen right now. You're supposed to kick the rust off right now. 100%. And and i think I think that is a circumstance where let's pump the brakes. And I know the Eagles fans want to be like,
Speaker: I don't know what Eagles fans want. they want to They want him to suck here. They want AJ Brown to come here and be bad so they can feel vindicated and validated. And so when they see a small struggle, and even Patriots fans, I tweeted out today, first two times that they threw the ball today, they threw it to AJ Brown, and it was unsuccessful. Bad throws by May. they're like...
Speaker: feasting on it right that that's that's what they do that's what twitter's for what real football's for to put your head down knock off the rust get on the same page we need you in september it is july well here's a just comment from bryson in real time says if aj brown looked awesome you said he was cooking and it matters though um well yeah i would i would push back on that because booty's cooking right now and i'm saying it doesn't matter so i would disagree that's true p that's a good point um pete Pete may be more consistent than me. i would i would absolutely, I'm sure, say. I know you would, maybe. That's me. I mean, that you know, hey, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. Like, there's no question I'd say he's cooking. I just think, like, I'm i'm looking at the history, right? Like, you're trying to form, at least I'm trying to form my opinion on the history of the player.
Speaker: This guy's a fucking all-pro man. Like this dude's a stud all-pro. He moves better than any receiver we have on the team. He's beast. um But yes i yes, I'm sure I would say he's he's cooking and he's the man if he looked good right now. that's what we do. and I get that. you and I probably would be excited too, right? I'd be encouraged by it. But i' I'll tell you this. i'm not There's nothing that I'm looking at at camp where I'm like, man, that's discouraging. There's not too many discouraging things occurring right now.
Speaker: like You got to look at the history of the player. A.J. Brown is a long, long, he's a Super Bowl winning all pro wide receiver stud. So you look at his history, say, do I think he's going to figure out? Yes. Like, but again, Kyle Williams isn't doing a lot in practice. We look at him and say, do we think he's going to figure it out?
Speaker: The answer is, I don't know. Kyle Williams has a very different history than A.J. Brown. I'll give you a good example. Romeo Dobbs is kind of quiet at camp, right? And yeah I am more apt to say Romeo Dobbs probably figure it out. Veteran.
Speaker: Kyle Williams is kind of quiet at camp. I'm more saying, oh, he might not, he might be missing something because he's a younger guy and has never shown it to me before. Right. So there's something to be said for resume and history. Kyle Williams has a history and a resume of not being on the same page as his quarterback. And frankly, didn't perform, you know, at a very high level last year. And so far, what we've seen is that,
Speaker: Again, so people are same more of the same, right? You know, with Romeo Dobbs, you're like, well, why is no one asking why Romeo Dobbs highlights aren't out there? Yeah. I don't know why, like why, why? ka Kyle Williams, like, again, we can go into this stuff, dude. Like we can talk about this shit forever. Like Kyle Williams, you want to be a certain player. Like he's a guy we all want to succeed, right? You look at the draft pick third round, you, oh, sick release package, athletic, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: But it's just not clicking. It's not clicking so far this year. It didn't click last year. He just didn't seem to be in the right location. I've had a couple people allude to me that he's just not picking it up.
Speaker: And maybe they've said that in more strong words. These are guys kind of around the team. that he's just not picking it up. um That's not me saying, Oh, it's a sort like nothing like that. Just people talking, right. It's just people saying like, maybe he's not grasping it as well as he could have.
Speaker: So yeah, I think it's, it's a problem. And I think it's, he's a player that we want to succeed. Of course you want him to succeed, but, This is year two, man. This is make or break. If he has another 200 yards receiving this year, shit's done.
Speaker: Like you don't, you don't have two years at 200 yards. Like the most rare humans in the league, like Edelman with a weird development path and special teaming and deep, you like someone like that had an incredibly strange production path, but yes, with Kyle Williams, like this is a huge year. He needs to have, i don't know, six, 700 yards.
Speaker: he needs to have a really productive season, I think, to to be, I don't know. It's just my opinion. Snooty, why don't you try chime in on that I think what happens to him, the thing about Williams is he offers something that nobody else does.
Speaker: He offers like a really high level of speed that nobody else has, right? not And like pure, just straight line speed. And that's enticing. And you kind of want to give something like that time to develop. Part of my expectations for him would be what happens with Booty this year.
Speaker: If Booty stays on the team, then I would expect Williams production to be at I guess the same level as last year, perhaps even less simply because there's just so many people ahead of him.
Speaker: It's all about potential with him. If he slow, if he shows signs that he's he's growing and improving and picking it up, it's hard to get rid of someone like that. Forget the draft status, although that's certainly part of it. It's the fact that he has skills, right? He's shown them like the touchdown against Tampa Bay was ridiculous. He just straight up ran away from everybody, right? Like that's that's what's enticing about him. So it's hard to throw something like that away.
Speaker: I'm not a big Efton Chisholm guy. I think Efton Chisholm is slow. I think then that – He's not Edelman. Just want to make that clear. Athletically, he's not Edelman.
Speaker: It's so evident when he was returning kicks. and like I like the story. i like the you know I'm not saying he's a bad person or a bad player, but I just like i don't know. I just don't think he's that. and then it To me, it really could come down to Pop versus versus Williams. and Right now, Pop's ahead, but what's the long term? like Where do you see Pop long term?
Speaker: Has he reached his peak? Because if he's reached his peak, then maybe you take take you keep Williams because it's it has a higher upside there. I'll tell you, the team loves pop right now. it doesn't seem like there's a popsicle chance in hell that pop doesn't make this team. It isn't likely the starting slot receiver.
Speaker: No, for sure. Which is certainly possible, but he looks good in practice. He's a, he's a camp hero. He puts on his Cape every camp. yeah We saw it last year and he had 33, he had more catches in camp than he did in the NFL regular season. Right. So, I mean, like that's what pop does, but what you're seeing is pop rolls out there. It's Dobbs Brown,
Speaker: Pop Douglas, those are your three wide receivers. and a person and And that's what he does, though, right? Like yeah he does every year and we go, oh, look at this. Oh, he's doing this thing. And then, you know, he kind of disappears. That's why i mean, I was done with him last year. And then, of course, he you know went off and see thinks when I think it was the Saints game right after that. But. You know, I mean, at what point did they kind of say maybe he's reached to his potential? Maybe he's maxed out.
Speaker: I think last year he was below his potential because Stefan Diggs maybe took some of what he does away. Right. And this year, I think there might be a little bit more opportunity for him. But this is certainly make a break contract year. Right. There's no reason to give him another contract if he can't.
Speaker: These 30 catches, what, 300 yards like or whatever he was last year. No chance. but there's so There's so many mouths to feed though. Like you have mouths to feed, right? It's like, you so and how many guys, what's the expectations? Like how many yards, how many attempts, you know, like someone, I forget who it was. I think it might've been Barth going through all the attempts, ah you know, and and passing attempts at receivers in 2007 with the Patriots, you know, when they felt loaded, obviously they were loaded with Moss and Welker and Stallworth. And like, you know what i mean? Like, And still guys had a ton of targets. I mean, they were like huge targets. Like, you know, every time obviously Brady to Welker, he had huge targets, but also he was always fucking open.
Speaker: You mean? It's like Wes Welker's open. they try not chi Like, dude, on Chisholm really quick, just just quick. When I'm at camp or when I'm watching Chisholm play, he's just open.
Speaker: I understand he's athletically limited. He's just fucking open Like that's what I like about Chisholm. I'm not saying his potential is – like Papa's more potential with his speed and elusiveness. But Chisholm is open.
Speaker: Every time he plays, it's great it's like weird to watch. I'm watching camp again. I turn to Pete and I'm like, Chisholm is just fucking open. i Like he cutting across the field, he's open. So people like that who just have a knack, it's like watching Travis Kelsey who probably runs a fucking game You know, like what does Kelsey run now?
Speaker: A 4'8", a four nine He's still, even though he's got washed hands and stuff, he's still just fucking open. know what I mean? Like some guys, they feel bodies. They know how to create separate, just like A.J. Brown. They can create separation without breakaway speed. Like you sit in zone. This is what Kyle Williams needs to learn.
Speaker: That's what we all talk about. He needs to somehow learn. How do you sit in a zone? How do you show up where dre where Drake needs you to be? you what mean? Like all this shit is is important.
Speaker: you know This is part of being a wide receiver, like being a tactician. So you know I can go on and on, but that's my chism shtick. It's just the fact that the kid just is open a bunch, period. like so Versus watching Kyle Williams, who's invisible at camp right now.
Speaker: Like, I'm sorry, he's invisible. And I think it's fair to compare the two, right? Because my I was about to push back and say, yeah, well, Chisholm's doing it against the second team. Well, Kyle Williams is doing it against the second team. So it's Kyle Williams. He's not showing us anything. So, like, apples to apples, Chisholm's getting open and Williams isn't.
Speaker: But I will say, you if you threw Chisholm out there against Marcus Jones, he ain't going to get over Drake, Drake silver with another, I think this is actually a really great point. And I like, i like serious comment, Drake silver.
Speaker: um Drake silver says it's Chisholm versus Williams. And that tells you so much. And I think like, I think there's reality to that. I mean, you're, you're talking about the real wide receiver six fight.
Speaker: And, uh, you know, Mike Reese did allude to today. He basically said, Kyle Williams is safe. Said it on the radio. He goes, no, he's safe. And it feels like it's coming from somewhere. You know, that's Reese. And I agree. You're not going to cut Williams, but if you're, again, if you're, if you're having those two fight out for your wide receiver six, it doesn't exactly give you the best hope for Kyle Williams as a, as a player.
Speaker: but you know, that's it. Like, that's, I don't know. That's yeah that that's well said. The fact that that's even a battle. yeah think it's It's a role thing too, right? Like um what kind of role does, um like, do they play?
Speaker: You what mean? Like Williams and Pop probably play, how do I say this? a different role than Chisholm does. Like,
Speaker: You know what mean? Like, Chisholm's not going to be the the downfield type of threat that he is. And you wouldn't think Pop Wood would be, but he played a lot more downfield last year than has in the past. He's turned into a downfield guy, basically. Right. So they play a more similar role versus Chisholm. So, like, it's not necessarily Chisholm versus Williams because they don't really – I know they play both play receiver, but they don't play the same way.
Speaker: You know mean? So are you looking? That's why that may give Chisholm the leg up. We're like, you're looking for a guy to me. He's a lot closer to Jacoby Myers than he was to Edelman.
Speaker: Like he gets open, but he's limited. He's not going to make a ton of people miss probably makes people miss a little bit better than Myers did, but he's also not as savvy as Myers was. So it's kind of he's somewhere in there. This is this is the problem with the the comparisons between Chisholm and and Julian Edelman, you know, like Edelman, you go back and look at his relative athletic score.
Speaker: He has elite traits. Edelman had an elite three cone. He ran a 4-4, like, flat. Like, Edelman is extremely athletic. And then you look at Chisholm. I think he ran a 4-7. I mean, he's not – he's quick, sure, but he's not ballpark the same as what Edelman was. So, like, everyone just wants him to be Edelman. But, again, the way better comp is Danny Amendola.
Speaker: Ken Chisholm be a Danny Amendola, who is a very crafty, really good wide receiver. He just wasn't a burner, but obviously Amendola had a ton of great qualities as a wide receiver. So i don't know. There's some good, there's some good debate there, but let's pivot a little just cause we're going on wide receivers now going for 26 minutes, but just, which is fine. um So I want to pivot to just, and I know ah you know, maybe Bryson or people in the comments here hate this topic with the gay back is talking topic. We just got to address it.
Speaker: And I want to address it quickly. It doesn't have to be long, but like, Bedard with a report today. Now, like this has been trickling out. Bedard had a report tonight that he said that no team or, or anyone knew about Akis's knee injury and subsequent, basically he just said knee injury. He didn't say surgery. He said knee injury, but no one knew about Akis's knee until June.
Speaker: Like that's, that feels crazy to me. That's like purposefully withholding a knee surgery from the organization that drafted you. like and And that's why, obviously, they clearly have this this waiver in his contract.
Speaker: We talk about the contract, but like the waiver is incredibly unusual, which should tell you something about the situation, like how poor it's how poor it's gone.
Speaker: So I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on the on the contract compared to like the whole withholding of information, but obviously there's some there's some problems here. Yeah, I mean, isn't it super weird that they were holding, like they were negotiating. Yes, is that's a well said. You can stop right there. it was super weird. Yes, it was super weird. But like for months and months and months, this drags on and you have to think the Patriots are going, we want the waiver. And you have to think Yacos is going, We don't want the waiver, right? Like that's got to be what they're arguing over.
Speaker: Yes. Guarantee the money. No waiver. Loses that and then also loses all this developmental time. Who is his agent? Who is this papoon? Is it the same guy as Gonzo? Someone said that online. No, not. It's not. I looked that up. It's not the same as Gonzo. But he does have an agent that fucks around with. He has an agent that fucks around with.
Speaker: rookie contracts. based Well, he's done this with a bunch of hes this. It seems like he fumbled the bag on this one, right? Like yeah the the money is set. So the money, you know, that doesn't go. it's just what comes down to guaranteed in this injury waiver. Like you said, is it completely rare? According to Reese? Like it just feels like his agent just completely fumbled this one. And now is eight. Now his client is well behind. and He's not even being able to practice. He has to start on NFI. It just feels like an absolute fumble in a really weird situation. Because when you're at that stage, when you're at like the pro days and stuff, it's your responsibility to disclose these these things. It's not like a lot a lot of people say it was due due diligence by the Patriots. And I would say the Patriots had the expectation that the player would tell them if they had a procedure done, right? like that Hold on, but also they did.
Speaker: but they did their due diligence. Like, this is the worst part. They did it. They looked at him in February at the combine. They looked at him in for a visit. Look at him again. There was no knee. There was no knee. It was a shoulder procedure. There was no knee.
Speaker: Gotcha. The knee happened either after the draft, during the draft, before the draft, and was not disclosed to the drafting team. There's an order of operations here and that we don't actually fucking know.
Speaker: This is the problem. Like, at some stage – After the Patriots evaluated him and before the contract was signed, he had some sort of knee procedure for some reason that the team didn't know about apparently.
Speaker: And I think that is a problem, obviously. And I don't know how he thought he could... have the team not find out about that. Like that's weird. Unless he comes out and clarifies his shit himself, which I doubt he's going to ever do because it looks so bad on him. Someone gave him some poor advice. He got bad advice. That's clean your knee out, dude. No problem. Get a scope. And then he's like, oh shit, this might affect my contract. Like someone gave him the wrong fucking advice. And and and i think it's I think it's a problem. I hope it's over now. And I agree.
Speaker: I agree with the comments. I think he's going to be a very effective edge rusher. I like the draft pick. I hope his knee's fine. And I want to see him get reps against Will Campbell. I want to see that.
Speaker: I think that's going to sick. Like, i'm I'm down for that all day. So, Snoody, did you want to weigh in on that? Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately what's going to come down, what's going to come away from this, it's less about the player specifically and about his impact on the team and things like that. It's going to be more of an like an order of operations type of thing. um because if it if it is just him, then I guess it's largely settled because they got the clause and the in the contract and whatever. But if it's something procedural, something that they missed on their side, something they didn't do correctly or they didn't follow up or whatever, like that's where you're going to see the takeaway. i mean, we won't actually see it because we're not in the building, but that's going to be the takeaway. I don't think this is really going to be
Speaker: ah a story or anything at any point, unless his knee just fucking explodes in the next 18 months. I don't think it's going to be a problem. Well, if his knee explodes, he's, he's going to get waved. I mean, like he's like, that's an out, like this is clearly, and clearly an out if his knee explodes and we don't, and we don't have to go on, on it too long, obviously. But like,
Speaker: it's worth talking about because of how it's how messy it's been. Like it's been this secretive fucking talking point, which is frankly taking some really great reporting from Mike Reese to find the shit out. That was Reese. Nobody else had this shit. Reese went in, he found out he had a procedure on the knee and it was some point and there's some miscommunication like that. That shit's that's good reporting. That's real reporting. I love it. And, and I'm happy it's at least coming to light a little bit, but yeah,
Speaker: I'm excited to hopefully move beyond it and you actually talk about Ackes on the field. And again, like, like I said, I think I want to see Ackes first Lomo. I want to see Ackes first Will Campbell.
Speaker: How does Ackes first Campbell look? What does that look like? If you're into a line play, well, you want to talk narratives and people championing certain players on the internet. Can you imagine what happens if Ackes, you know, Ackes pancakes Will Campbell or Campbell pancakes, act you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker: You're going to have some some great shit. So i' I'm into the matchup, but we're not going to learn that until Thursday when the pads come on. And Atkins is probably not going playing. so He was walking around today. Him and Landry were walking around, but, like, they're not practicing yet.
Speaker: I don't think that they'll be out there Thursday either. Atkins will be out there Thursday either. Yeah, it's going to be – I don't know, man. Ponder's been filling in in his time. you know Obviously, Draymond Jones is at edge, but Elijah Ponder's really been getting all those reps at edge consistently, first-team defense every single time. And he looks good in that role, too. So I you know i wouldn't expect, even if Ackes does come back, that he takes – ponders role immediately, right? He'll have to earn his role back. And then even furthermore, when Landry comes back, like does that shove him down even further into the depth chart?
Speaker: Because there's really not much after that, though. It kind of falls off after that. So I think his his spot on the roster is obviously safe, his is but his role on the team, I think, could be a conversation point. Like how long does it take for him to catch up? He missed OTAs. He missed minicamp. He missed all this install. He doesn't have the playbook. You know, like what does he, where is he in his progression to getting onto the field and being productive?
Speaker: Yeah, I think pon yeah Ponder is going to interesting. a lot of people talk about Ponder and the edge role and can he like canny you really step up and be productive. you know We'll see. Again, I want to see him go against Campbell too. But again, a little bit early on, they're just saying Campbell's looking good, holding his own. But it's, it's again, you know with no pads. And this should advantage in every way. And Snoony can talk about this. This should advantage pretty much in every way. It should be advantaging the DNs right now, not the tackles.
Speaker: with no pads on, with knowing they're in throwing like throwing situations, with you know no run threat. like this should be This should really be advantaging defensive ends right now. so They've been running it a lot. They've been working on their outside zone run scheme. like Yeah, but you're not really – we're talking blocking is like really not – it's really not blocking. Snooty, tell me, how does this advantage the defensive ends a lot more, edges a lot more than the O-linemen at this point?
Speaker: I mean, it's not real football for linemen until you have pads on. It's just not. Yeah. Like, yeah for both sides, to be honest. Again, remind people, Snooney played college football as an O-lineman. So just to remind people, speaking from knowledge here.
Speaker: for like the one-on-one pass sets and stuff like that, the one-on-one drill, like they don't have to read draw. They don't have to read screen. They don't have to read run. They don't have to read anything. They just, it's just straight pass rush. And it's, that's all it is. There's no cutting. There's no, there's no nothing.
Speaker: Right. So in that sense, there's, there's a bit of a built-in advantage for the defense. Now they'll counter and say, well, we don't know the snap count. Well, you never know the fucking snap count. So much did right. Like that's just what happens. So the fact that the O-line was,
Speaker: the specifically the tackles were doing well against the edge by all reports today is a good sign. But I mean, I think personally, think that's more about the edge play than it is about the tackles necessarily. um So I am, you know, kind of, I'm really looking forward to see what Campbell looks like specifically. um I think, you know, people forget he was 21 last year. so he's a, he's a young guy. So physically he's still maturing and and developing. Yeah.
Speaker: Really hoping that he he spent a long offseason working on his technique. And I think Bedard had a report out today that he had a couple different pass sets that he he kind of didn't have last year, which is good because, you know, he needs to vary his game a little bit like that. And I know we've talked about that that in the past that. You can overcome physical limitations. You just have to do – have to be, you know, smart about it. um So I really want to see what he looks like. From all reports, Lomu, I think they're going about it the right way with him. He's getting ah mixed he's getting mixed in at right tackle with the, you know first and second groups, and he's kind of being that third tight end blocking tackle type of thing, which is –
Speaker: or third tackle blocking tight end type thing. I think that's ideally that's the way it goes, right? It's like the Nate Solder route where he plays a little bit, gets his feet wet, but he's still a pretty raw kid. And you know next year Moses moves on to better things. And then you know you plug that kid in and if Campbell does well, now you have your bookends for the next you know eight to 10 years or whatever it is.
Speaker: um So we'll see. So that the whole thing about like, oh, they didn't, the run game didn't look good. I'm like, yeah, guys, it's a little hard to do the run game. First of all, it's day one of camp, or day two camp or whatever, but you don't have pads on. It's not real football without pads.
Speaker: Yeah. i mean, early on, I thought obviously like day one, you're you're still going to remark on it. Like when they get, the run gets blown up, you're going to, you know, I'm going to say something about it, but yes, it's hard to evaluate. Like, I don't know how Jared Wilson's going to be.
Speaker: Like that's going to interesting. Like what if Wilson's the weak point, you know, and they, they get pressure from the middle, like then it becomes a huge problem. Right. So I'm not sure. Let's see how that turns out. Um, again, premature Thursday is a big day though, man.
Speaker: Like Thursday is the day. Like you put the pads on, like I want to, I want, I want fucking one-on-one lineman reps, dude. i get I could watch that shit for an hour. like I need one-on-one lineman reps. Pete, are you going down any the other and the other days?
Speaker: I'll be here there all over the weekend, but I'm not gonna be there Thursday, Friday. okay I'm having in FOMO already. so as I was going to say, I think our guy, ah Alex Conte from X, will be there. and He'll be our our guy on the field, so in case need some.
Speaker: Our man on the field, in case you need some info, go to Alex Conti on X. Good guy. um But, yeah, so I'm stoked for that. Another one just to touch on briefly. Again, another topical point. And I said today – ended up deleting the tweet because people were getting angry about it, and I was like, I don't i don't care enough. But um I had a tweet with – I thought Christian Gonzalez's moment at the podium today was interesting when he when he spoke about – you know, he wants this contract stuff to be settled and handled privately.
Speaker: And he's like, you know, Hey, you know, Robert craft is um I love craft, know, whatever I respect them. But you know, these are things we wanted to handle behind the scenes. And I had said myself, like, to me, this is him expressing disappointment.
Speaker: This is like, why did he do that? Like, this is like something him and his camp are not happy about. I wouldn't say anger. I just think he's like, Because we all know, if you think about it for more than the three seconds, you know what Robert Kraft was doing, which is he's he's getting the public and the media on on his side kind of in a negotiation versus Gonzo. Like there's no other reason why he would come out and be like, we love him. We've offered him the highest contract in Patriots history.
Speaker: And we, you know, like you wouldn't do that unless you have a reason to fucking do that. So um anyway, Pete, give me your thoughts on the Gonzo stuff today and the contract stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I mean, I think the offer is by craft is saying, go talk to the player. Like, you know, don't talk to the team anymore about why he isn't extended because the team has offered him a contract. Go talk to the player. So the players camp has to be like, that isn't the coolest thing for you to do. Like, obviously we're negotiating here. Why did you just go say, talk, go talk to the player essentially. So. I think it was definitely a tactic. I think you're spot on there. And, you know, I see the comments, you know, I'm definitely team Gonzo here. Like Kraft maybe shouldn't have done that. In my opinion, it feels a little bit more loosey goosey under Vrabel and the in the Mayo, like away from the Belichick era where people talk, people say things, you know, things happen now and the wrong thing can be said when people talk. And this might be an example of that. For me, there was a cornerback extended today. Why am I drawing a blank on his name? Reset the market. Denzel Ward. Yeah. Yeah. Denzel Ward. And then we were still waiting on Witherspoon.
Speaker: You got 31 Witherspoon, probably 32. And then what? Gonzo's probably 32 and a half, right? Probably yeah there. I'm just thinking that like, Greg, if we were to role play, I'm Gonzo and and you're crap, right? I'm saying like, Hey, I just want to be the highest paid corner. And they're like, yeah, we will.
Speaker: We'll make you the highest paid. Sure. We'll offer to you right now. The right now, the highest paid is what? thirty 31 and a half. You know, that's what we'll pay you. We'll make you the highest paid. And he's like Well, someone's about to get 32 and he's like, all right, well, do you want to wait for that then? Because we're going to go out and tell everyone we offered you the highest amount. we're not, we don't want to wait. I don't know like why his contract matters to your, like they're trying to pretend like that's some sort of negotiation tactic. So I feel like they're just Christian Gonzalez saying, I'll wait for Witherspoon to sign, then I'll sign. And the Patriots are saying, hey, we're offering you the contract. Now, if you want to kick rocks and wait, we'll just tell people that, you know, and it feels a little weird, right? But in September, he'll have a five-year contract and we won't be talking about this anymore. And it won't feel weird anymore. it feels like some of this stuff is temporary that the due to timing.
Speaker: I mean, I'm loathe to agree with them, but I think Felger actually hit it right on the head with this. Like, you can say the highest contract, whatever, but that could mean a million different things, the way contracts are structured.
Speaker: yeah It could be shit guarantees or, you know... Different things like that. and it's like, yeah, and maybe full value. Sure. Maybe it's the highest. But like when you actually get into the details, it's kind of a shitty contract. It's all, ah you know, very team friendly. So I don't know. Wouldn't that make Kraft's comments even worse then? We offered them the highest paid contract, but that contract was Fugazi because it sucked.
Speaker: That would make the comments even worse than they already are. Right. And that's the thing is like, you can't really just take it like at face value. And it's really hard to read this any other way than the team is trying to put pressure on them to sign.
Speaker: Right. And like, hate when they do this, cause it's like, you can't be a fucking draft and develop team and then not pay the blue chip talent that you draft. Like you can't do that. That negates everything else you do.
Speaker: If like, you just, you're like, Oh, you know what? We're all going to try to like, you know, you know, fuck around with the numbers and things like that. It's like, just, just fucking pay him. He's a top three corner, five corner, whatever it is in the NFL, just fucking pay him. And I understand maybe you think he's the fifth best corner and you're going to pay him at number one. Maybe that's a perceived inefficiency. Well, that's how the fucking market works. all right. If you don't always get paid what you're worth, you get paid what the market will pay you, which I guess is a way of saying what you're worth. But like, you know what I'm trying to say? Like actual impact on the field versus free market value. There's are not necessarily always aligned.
Speaker: It's fine. It's going to age well. The fucking cap goes up 15 million every year, whatever the hell it is, because you guys, they just keep throwing money or having money thrown at them by every everyone who can telecast a game at any point ever. And they're in bed with every sports book. Just fucking pay the guy. Stop fucking around with your blue chip cornerstone players. Stop doing it. Just pay them.
Speaker: That's what you have to do. If they're fucking around with them. Maybe they're just waiting, you know, for the time. their history I'm assuming they're they're fucking around with them. Yeah, no, I think yeah i think it's more likely.
Speaker: It's more likely probably that they messing around with him a little bit. Cause like why it's like if if they had it signed and again, like someone else was alluding saying it's, almost done and you know they're just waiting for Witherspoon. I get that thought and in some respect they probably are. like Once Witherspoon happens, they'll just bump it up by a half million and be like, here you go kind of thing with similar guarantees.
Speaker: but like but yes it's i think I don't know. I think it's i think it's weird that dude it's weird that he come out and and this is craft will do stuff like this occasionally and put pressure. Like he knows what he's doing. Again, it's like, I know you could have the misconception that he's just like wandered onto the field and it's just like saying random things. He's, he's like, but you know, it's not, but like, you know, it's not. And a lot of people think that like, Oh, he doesn't even know what he's saying. Like he's not an invalid. Like he's still like a billionaire owner of the Patriots. You know what I mean? So I think,
Speaker: Clearly he has intention behind this and he knows he knows what he's doing. So um this whole thing is stupid. you know It's just like who blinks first. I think Witherspoon will sign first still. And I think Gonzo is kind of a more prototypical cornerback than Witherspoon. They said a little bit ranger, longer.
Speaker: Witherspoon is it great yeah witherson's a great player though. like don't get right like He's a tough, tough dude. Great player. like no No questions asked. But like but you said, you were saying, Pete, to those guys you interviewed with at ah at training camp, we're trying to shit on Gonzo. oh yeah. You know, do you want to be the team that pays your elite homegrown talent?
Speaker: Do you want to be that team? Or do you want to be the team that it says, fuck it, let's go get 70 cents on the dollar. You know i mean? So I think they got to pay their homegrown talent at this point. Yeah. Don't penny pinch. Don't be the Red Sox. You know what I mean? Keep your talent. Don't let your talent go sign elsewhere and be pissed about it years later. Like go to the Superbowl with your homegrown talent. We'll feel really good.
Speaker: Yeah, 100%. Oh, my God. Well, there's a lot, man. It's like shit's getting real. I just like how it's – We're back. Again, we're back. like as I've been saying we're back every week for like – Five weeks, I feel like.
Speaker: Keep saying it. I feel like we're actually back. Now we're really back. We're super back. um and um And obviously, everybody's stoked about it. um I think, like I said, man, pads come on Thursday. Then we'll really get a good glimpse of some more physical football. i don't know how much they'll actually be – I don't know how much they'll actually be hitting. You know, like, let's see, are they wrapping? Are they going to like, I doubt they're tackling to the ground. It's just like wrap and release type shit.
Speaker: Yeah. um Which is, which is always kind of weird to me that, that, you know, when we grew up and when we were playing ball, it was like, Oklahoma drill, full contact. They used to teach you to lead with your helmet and blast people with your helmet. ah There used to be two-a-days. Things have changed. This is a legit thing. They used to teach you as a lineman three-point strike, two hands in your face. And it's like, that is just so bad. You can't do that.
Speaker: Yeah, that is just not aged well. Yeah, no. Yeah, no. But i remember when Belichick was even coaching, there was like two a days and you would decide when they would do them. and Now that's one practice a day. It's an hour and a half. You can't put the. pads on until five days have gone by. I mean, it that it's a lot of protection, which is a lot why the defense is ready before the offense comes up over and over and over again. It's because like like nobody can hint. The defense is all geared up where the offense hasn't really had a chance to like do a whole lot. So you know defenses should be ahead of offenses. That's why I'm a little scared about the week one matchup. Seattle's defense versus our maybe not fully geared up offense yet. so Bro, i'm scared I'm scared for Seattle's ah offense, bro.
Speaker: I'm not. I'm scared for Seattle. Oh, for Seattle. Yeah. I'm scared. If I'm Seattle's offense, dude, I'm scared. I'm just saying. Charbonnet's hurt and you have to go against our defense? I mean. Yeah. I feel like people are sleeping on the Patriots defense a little bit already. I know the edge roll is not great, but I don't know.
Speaker: Darnold wasn't awesome in that Super Bowl. You know what I mean? like One of his worst efficiency games of the entire year. In fact, it was what it was his worst success rate of the entire year. So, yeah. Our defense does work.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just that the Patriots offense was so like historically horrible. Like looking back, just one of the worst performances ever. um Yeah, it's crazy. Oh, we're so we're still trying to lock down. know this is deep buried in the pod. We're still trying to clear through and lock down special date on 820.
Speaker: not a fit i don't think anything's like officially official set and fully set in stone yet pete but like the place the time that's set in stone 8 20 1 p.m the harp you can definitely say that that's it okay there's some details we're gonna look for i'm gonna we'll start kind of pumping it we're gonna have some sort of We've a live event going down that, again, we haven't fully put on blast on social media yet, but we're going be hosting a live event at the Harp outside of, you know, after the second Patriots-Eagles joint practice. Going to have a lot of people rolling through, a lot of guests trying to work on a lot of giveaways. Yep. um Some cool shit. And, yeah, man, I'm going to link up with some charities as well. So it should be a really cool event.
Speaker: and People will have to come out and and have some beers and and hang out, man. We're going to a long pod and have a lot of different people kind of running through. So with I think the three main hosts of it will be me, Pete, and Joe from LFG Pats Pod. And then, yeah, man, we're going to have a lot of people coming through and a lot of people tied to the event. So. it should be really cool it will be again we'll be starting to pump it soon it should be should be a blast so got anything you want to add to that pete yeah no everything you said echo it's going to be a great event maybe have a special guest or two you should see some promo coming out about that soon just kind of getting the marketing signed off getting the stamp of approval and then we'll be blasting out on social medias but time eight at one o'clock date 8 20 place the heart see you there
Speaker: Bang. And everyone take work off. Take work off and get there. Especially, you're going to be a lot of fights that day. Just saying. It's going to a lot of fights. so There's going to lot of Eagles fans there. I was told to reserve 10 tickets for Eagles fans flying in. so We should have Patriots fans versus Eagles fans. So we need our Patriots fans to show up in numbers. We can't be outnumbered by Eagles fans at a Patriots live talk event. Are we going to have Eagles fans like on the pod? like We're going have one of them sit down? I want them on the pod. I would love to argue with them live on the pod. That is what I like to do. I will be geared up that day for that. So I hope that that happens. If they dare step into the seat and want to talk to us. Step in the ring with Pete. If you want to step in the ring, I'm ready to go.
Speaker: Be careful what you wish for. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, I don't know. Watch AJ Brown go on a horrendous dropping spree that day, and I have to sit there and take it the whole time. Yeah, you're right. But I don't anticipate that. I have confidence. I'm a fan.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. All right, Snoony, do you want to add anything else before we wrap it up? No, just really looking forward to getting actual games going. Get them get the pads popping. Let's go.
Speaker: Hey, man. Fucking back. Pete, anything else you want to add? No, man. Just if you see us at camp, come say hi, say what up. And if you have a chance to go to camp, like I think there's a misconception that you have to like pay for it or there's like paid parking or like you can't bring in water. But like it's free. Park for free. Pull right up. Show right up. Sit real close. Get autographs from the people after training camp is the place to be. So if you're a local and you have that opportunity, I would take advantage. You have kids. Great spot for them on summer vacation.
Speaker: um Go to camp. That's my message. If you're just like a football head, if you're just dude that loves ball, if you're a guy that just like wants to be around football, camp's camps a great place to be.
Speaker: You know what I mean? like and ah And again, like if you're a casual fan, maybe it's not something you're into, but like if you just want to watch, like I'm telling you, like right away just watching 11 on 11's day one.
Speaker: And I was like, oh shit. I was like, you feel, you immediately you feel it. You're like, oh fuck, it's back. You know what i mean? and And even in that limited sample size, so. So, yeah, man, good shit. Well, I appreciate you guys tuning in. Had a, I would say an extremely active chat tonight. I couldn't really read everything while we were talking. um Very, very active chat. But, yeah, man, we appreciate everyone tuning Thanks for listening. and And we will catch you next time. Peace out.
Speaker: Later. help
