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Francis Chan & Kevin Malone: Finding Purpose in the Fight Against Human Trafficking
70 Plays1 month ago
In this powerful first episode of a two-part series, Trafficking Free America welcomes pastor and author Francis Chan alongside USIAHT founder Kevin Malone to discuss their deeply personal journeys into the fight against human trafficking.
From gut-wrenching moments of discovery to inspiring stories of restoration, this episode is an intimate and honest conversation about calling, heartbreak, hope, and how every follower of Christ can respond to injustice.
🚨 This is more than awareness—it's a call to action.
📍 Learn how to take the next step: https://usiaht.org/abolitionists
Join the movement. Become an abolitionist. Make a difference.
⏱️ Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro: A Special Episode with Francis Chan & Kevin Malone
01:15 - Francis Chan Learns About Human Trafficking for the First Time
02:51 - The Night That Changed Everything
04:21 - Kevin’s Revelation: Boys Are Being Trafficked Too
06:10 - Why Most People Don’t Let It Sink In
07:28 - Kevin’s Plea for Encouragement to Stay in the Fight
09:17 - Francis Chan on What Pleases God in This Battle
12:10 - How Kevin & Francis First Connected Through Church and Missions
13:19 - The Trained Elephant and the Untrained Souls
14:46 - Finding Joy in Serving and Transforming Lives
20:21 - The Spiritual Warfare Behind Trafficking
24:25 - What Happens When God's Spirit Lives in You
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Transcript
Introduction to New Video Series
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, my name is Jeremy Hicks. I'm one of the content creators here at the U.S. Institute Against Human Trafficking and Kids Not For Sale. Today we begin a two-part series with both pastor, author, and speaker Francis Chan and our founder and president, Kevin Malone.
00:00:21
Speaker
These two have both been in the fight against human trafficking for quite a long time. And in this particular episode, they actually reunited to record a new video study series that we're putting out called Advocate.
00:00:33
Speaker
It's something very exciting, something we're looking very forward to, where we basically put together content that educates the church on human trafficking and how the church can actually help prevent it.
00:00:45
Speaker
If you want to know more information about that, you can go to usiahd.org slash advocate.
Francis Chan's Journey into Advocacy
00:00:51
Speaker
In today's episode, we're going to hear from Francis Chan about how he first learned about human trafficking, how he and Kevin took a trip to Thailand together, and how they both have been fighting in the trenches and finding purpose in fighting human trafficking together.
00:01:04
Speaker
So, without further ado, let's get into today's episode. So, for instance, I was thinking about so years ago when I was attending church at Cornerstone, you were the pastor and you were one of the first people, probably the very first that I ever heard talk about human trafficking and and you kind of was making the church there aware of of trafficking.
00:01:30
Speaker
Where did you first come across it? How did you become aware of it? and and why did it kind of impact you that made you want to really get involved and educate others about about this evil?
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, I was um speaking at a conference and then we had just had a dinner with some of the other speakers. So i asked the guy next to me, and I'm like, what do you do? And he says, I fight human trafficking. I'm like, what what does that mean?
00:01:57
Speaker
I'd never heard the term before. i didn't understand what it meant. And when he explained it
00:02:05
Speaker
i I seriously cried myself to sleep that night. Probably like couple hours of just crying. Because I just, you know, I've got five daughters.
00:02:21
Speaker
ah Back then, don't know how many I had. Maybe a couple of them. um But, you know, and two boys. So I'm i'm just imagining like,
00:02:32
Speaker
what would I do if someone took one of my daughters, you know, and just started playing that in my mind and then feeling like God's impressing on me. Like, I want you to treat all these girls like your daughters.
00:02:51
Speaker
And so it wass just like this heavy weight and burden. And I remember just, imagining if my daughter was taken, what what would my next sermon look like?
00:03:03
Speaker
You know, like would I get up and say, okay, today we're in 2 Timothy 2. You know, i i I just, you know how we just imagine scenes like, you know, so I just picture like, wow, I think I would just throw the pulpit and swear and say, what why in the world are we doing? do You guys got resources, you guys have ability.
00:03:28
Speaker
You find my daughter, you you figure it out. Well, why do you think it
Understanding Empathy and Cultural Distractions
00:03:33
Speaker
impacted you that way? Because there's thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of pastors and followers of Christ that hear the same thing.
00:03:44
Speaker
Why does it impact you and affect you that way yeah and and not others? I'm always intrigued and wondering why does it, like it it hit me the same way. yeah i only had one daughter and one son and since I've been in this fight,
00:04:02
Speaker
my focus for the last few years has really been on traffic boys. We opened up the first and only traffic boy safe home in America, located in Florida. And I wasn't aware that boys, little boys were being trafficked until I went to the Superbowl in Phoenix the last time, about five or six years ago.
00:04:21
Speaker
And there I came across little boys that were being sold as sex slaves. And I'd never really thought about boys, but, Back to the original question, when I heard about it from you, I think the very first time, and then God started showing me it in different ways, making me more aware of it.
00:04:43
Speaker
But why say like for you and for me and maybe a few others, not enough, yeah does it really grab our heart and our soul and create this kind of fighting spirit? what Why do you think that's like that?
00:04:57
Speaker
Well, first I wanna say, you know, i mean, that's a gift, honestly, right? That's the grace of God. So I don't ever wanna be like, oh, wow, look at me, I care, you don't. You know, the only reason why I care is God's given me this gift, a blessing to feel for them.
00:05:19
Speaker
Sometimes you don't feel like a blessing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I know what you know, what else am I gonna, you know, what do I wanna do with my life? the fact that I care if I see someone starving, the fact that I care when, you know, someone is kidnapped and and but but it's it's that and it's also, you know, willingness to like dwell on it for a bit yeah and actually think about it and and imagine scenes playing out. and I think that's a big part of it. What you mentioned is I think if it's no matter who it is, when they first hear about it, most people immediately will block it out.
00:05:55
Speaker
They won't really think about it. They won't take it to heart. They'll just, because it it's like a deer in the headlights. It goes right over head because it's so evil. It's so perverse. And like you did, which I think I try to do when I'm explaining it to men just what you said, what would you do if it was your daughter?
00:06:14
Speaker
What would you do if it was your son? and I think that changed, making it personal, because some people can, but if it's not your own son or daughter, your own grandson or granddaughter, most people have this way of blocking out that compassion, that that empathy, that that that those feelings of, of ah I gotta to do something.
00:06:36
Speaker
so Well, and and the other thing I would say is nowadays, Things are a lot different than it was 20 years ago where you'd hear something and you'd actually think about it for a while.
00:06:49
Speaker
Nowadays, you think about it and then you just flip to something else. I mean, our attention span, yeah you know, that that's why they say like we don't even have memories anymore because, you know, you have a memory, you just dwell on one thing for a long time.
00:07:04
Speaker
We don't dwell on anything. And so it could be that people see the atrocity of it, but then they jump on Netflix and now I'm watching Baby Yoda or whatever, and it's like, I totally forgot. As a man of God, a follower of Jesus, as your Lord and Savior, what what encouragement would you give to me to stay in this fight?
Biblical Encouragement in Advocacy
00:07:29
Speaker
I've been in it now for many years and I've seen evil up close and dealt with the consequences of this perverseness, this evil, this darkness.
00:07:41
Speaker
And sometimes I get discouraged because oftentimes, and again, it's not a pat on the back, it's I feel like I'm a lone ranger. I feel like I can't get, And I've always been a team builder from my baseball days.
00:07:54
Speaker
And that was one of my fortes was building teams to be successful. But it feels like it's so hard to get people united and and and working together to to fight this. And I'm not asking people to do everything. Just in your particular area of life, maybe it's...
00:08:16
Speaker
call your congressman or write a letter or volunteer or or pray or write a check, but do just a little bit to make a difference. But one, I'd like to know what encouragement would you have for me? Because sometimes I feel like I've had enough.
00:08:35
Speaker
I have to stay in the word, stay in prayer and humble myself before the Lord. But for me, one, to encourage me to continue to go, but two, to encourage people that might hear this this conversation.
00:08:49
Speaker
yeah how did What would you say to them to get them in in this fight? I mean, a passage that comes to mind is and Ezekiel 9, when God is saying going to destroy Jerusalem, kill everyone.
00:09:03
Speaker
um But before he sends out those angels to destroy, he says, first put a mark on the foreheads of the people who grieve over the abominations that are done in this land.
00:09:18
Speaker
In other words, God's looking for the people who are the ones that are just so bugged by the things that I hate. Put a mark on them. And then just you leave those people alone.
00:09:30
Speaker
And then everyone else, start killing them. Old men, young men. And he says, start in the sanctuary. Start with the elders. I was like, Wow, like like this is what marked them. They were broken over the things that grieve the heart of God.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so when God sees one of his children that he created and what what they they ought to be, how they ought to view God and how they ought to view a man, you know, that that he created, it's like,
00:10:01
Speaker
wow, I wanna feel the same thing that God does. And so it's not about success all the time. That's that's a hard thing to be in America because you know you look at the prophets and everyone else, they didn't have a very high success rate, but God was so pleased because their hearts were grieved over the things that grieved him.
00:10:22
Speaker
And you see that I needed to hear that. Yeah, it's huge. I'm being in the sports world, I'm always looking at, averages, success, KPIs, all the the measurements and metrics yeah of what is success. But I fail sometimes, oftentimes, most of the time, of really thinking about what you just said is that it must please God that I receive that, I need that, because I don't often think that God is pleased because this is breaking me, this is crushing me, this battle, because see
00:11:01
Speaker
all these boys and girls like they're my own. Even though they're not, I feel this this this this empathy, this this concern, and nobody seems to care because a lot of them are minority kids. yeah A lot of them are African American or Hispanic, a large part of those that are being trafficked in our major cities.
00:11:20
Speaker
And I can't get anybody you know to listen, to hear. And it's like, And then I do find my refuge in the Lord. I do find my, I go to Him and and and sometimes as you mentioned, I do cry out and cry physical tears because I'm broken over this and I don't see the results.
Insights from the Thailand Mission Trip
00:11:42
Speaker
So I appreciate you saying that. was That's a really good word for me. Well, Francis, I was thinking back about when we first met. I had brought my family and some relatives to an Easter Sunday service at Moore Park at the football field.
00:11:58
Speaker
And actually that day, one of my nephews and my son, Sean, went down and made a profession of faith. But then I reached out to you yeah after that service and said, hey, I was at the service, I'd love to meet you, wanna grab lunch sometime or do or play golf or something, and you accepted and the rest has been history. so but that So that was around that time and then 09,
00:12:27
Speaker
was a real blessing that we went on that mission trip yeah to Chiang Mai, Thailand. And the gal that I'd met from your church, why Lana, yeah who had really started yeah Zoe, but had then started another ministry, we went to an area, like a slum area, and there were people living like in this thing.
00:12:49
Speaker
area. And it was like, we were talking, I remember saying, you know, yeah the poverty is one thing. And that breaks my heart, our hearts, but it's the fact that they have no purpose. They don't really know yeah their purpose in life. And they were like wasting their life.
00:13:05
Speaker
No, you know, what I remember about that talk we had when we were at that kind of slum area, because we had just gone to some weird thing where they had trained elephants. Remember, I'm like, they train an elephant how to paint, and he did better than we would have done. Then he was throwing darts, and we're like, oh my gosh.
00:13:25
Speaker
Like the the amount of effort they put into training this animal, and then here's all these human beings. sitting here with no vision, no dreams, no nothing.
00:13:37
Speaker
But meanwhile, we're we're training our elephants and not valuing these people. You know, seeking the Lord wholeheartedly and really pursuing God is, a lot of people think there's no joy, there's no fun, there's no There's no satisfaction. It's all rules and regulations. But I can honestly say, and I know you can too, and I'd like you to elaborate a little bit on this, that being in the presence of God and and seeking Him and and and and really truly humbling yourself before the Lord and wanting please him
00:14:15
Speaker
from that kind of mindset and that heartfelt ah humility, i think God blesses us with these fun times of joyful times and seeing things that maybe people don't see and and and experiencing things in a different way. It's not always about what the world says is fun and great. And and it's just this this this communion, this Yeah. What, what has it for you? For example, i don't know if you've been back to Lana's place, but it's like a different world now. Like all these homes for the kids, you know, I went back a couple years later and
00:14:56
Speaker
um You know, build like a playground for the kids, me and a friend of mine, zip line, everything. Just so fun, you know. and and And with my kids, they were playing with the kids. Like people don't understand like the joy of, wow, these kids were sold, these kids were orphans, these kids just felt hopeless, lost.
00:15:20
Speaker
And now to see them laugh and do something that enables them to get jobs. yeah um Gosh, you know, and in Ethiopia, I recently got to do a wedding of a girl that we got out of prostitution and and is now a hairdresser and and to walk her up the aisle, you know, as like, here's this woman who was just used and abused and and now to see her handed off to Christian man who was gonna love her and protect her and to give someone a future like that or to play any part of it big or small I mean for me on that one was just a few bucks here there but it's just like wow what
00:16:14
Speaker
What excites you? i mean, that doesn't excite you to watch her walk up an aisle, then i mean, think about a kid who's repeatedly abused, and now you somehow help intervene.
00:16:30
Speaker
And now you're there at her wedding day. it Most people never experience that. or Or a kid that's got a day left to live because of starvation, you somehow nurse them back to life and and to see them running around. and The Bible says that God is a father to the fatherless.
00:16:51
Speaker
And so whenever we can take that on. It's very natural for us. um That's why in 1 John 3, 16, he just says, you know, if if you see your brother in need and you have the means to help and you do nothing, he says, how could the love of Christ be in you?
00:17:13
Speaker
like Like this is his very DNA. Like you understand what he did in rescuing you. And so because he's in you now, now you naturally want to do that. It's a desire. It's not a guilt thing. It's not, it's just, what else going to do with my life? Yeah. It's like, cause I think about if I wasn't doing what I'm doing now, fighting human trafficking, really focused on fighting child sex trafficking, what would,
00:17:43
Speaker
I can't think of what my purpose would be other than revealing the Father, Abba, and pointing people to Jesus, which I do. the Really the reason I think that a lot of the main reason I do this is that I can point people to Jesus, that if it's a trafficker, if it's a buyer of sex, if it's a victim, our survivor now, that I can somehow...
00:18:12
Speaker
Lord willing, show them the love of God through Jesus and why. Because when we had the boys on Francis, a lot of times the boys would say, why do you do this? Why are you helping me? I've known people that say they're Christians and people from churches and they they said I was evil or bad because maybe I like other boys or I don't really understand my sexuality. and And you're supposed to you're not supposed to love me and care about me and want to help me because I've dealt with people like you before that say they're Christians and say they're church people and they condemn me and they judge me.
00:18:53
Speaker
And why do you guys do that? And we would just say, we're just going to love on you like Jesus loved on you. We're not going to sit in judgment of you. We're going to just try to reveal... the Father to you and and just show you what real love is. Just provide you a safe place, a place where you can get the help, the services you need, and really just let you become who God's called you to be and kind of hopefully, Lord willing, put you on the right path that you can kind of start to figure this out. And we had 34 boys go through our Traffic Boys Safe Home and in Florida, and many of them
00:19:31
Speaker
came to know the Lord or at least acknowledged some sort of relationship. And we now get letters or get phone calls that, hey, I know I was unlovable then, I was angry, i was violent, but what you guys did for me really showed me a difference than men paying to have sex with me or to abuse me or exploit me. You showed me what real men looked like and acted like. So, you know, I've got to i've got to think about some of those things that I hear that that are encouraging to me because in this fight every day, it's it's so dark and it's so challenging. And we know it's spiritual warfare. Why don't you, if you would, talk a little bit about
00:20:18
Speaker
the spiritual warfare aspects of of this fight. yeah And you have already, but
The Spiritual Dimension of Human Trafficking
00:20:23
Speaker
maybe... Well, the problem is, and a lot of people don't recognize the spiritual side of this, but you know like in Ephesians 2, it says that we were dead.
00:20:33
Speaker
Everyone was dead in their trespasses and sins, and they would follow the course of the world, follow the prince of the power of the air. So it's just saying, you're just following what everyone else does, you're actually following Satan, the prince of the power of the air.
00:20:48
Speaker
and And you're just carrying out the desires of the body and the mind. And for that reason, you were by nature children of wrath. But God, being rich in mercy, you know because of the great love that He loved us, He made us alive.
00:21:05
Speaker
so So the idea is there's a spiritual force of Satan. Then it's demonic. it's It's people just think, oh, let me just carry out what I want to carry out, whatever my body feels like doing, whatever my mind feels like dwelling on.
00:21:24
Speaker
It's like we all naturally go that direction. If it feels good, I'm going to do it. And you have no right to tell me it's wrong. And so that's where all that that's, that's the core of the satanic Bible. Do as thou wilt, you know, whatever you want to do. So that's, that's the world. That's, you know, and you know, that's the slogan for Vegas, right? You know, whatever you do, just,
00:21:49
Speaker
just do it yeah and just let it stay here and and it's it's great um and so we're we're forgetting that this world we live in is about this battle and there's this wide road where everyone starts off doing what they want to do um but then God gets a hold of some of us and he actually changes our nature.
00:22:15
Speaker
So now we're not like these zombies, like, ooh, this feels good, let me go do this. you know and And this is pleasure, but actually changes our nature to where now we naturally take on his characteristics.
00:22:29
Speaker
So now I'm no longer a predator of these women, but I'm actually a protector because that's what God is. And so now I'm not going to look at her as just this object to gratify me, but actually someone I want to rescue and protect from this evil, you know, just...
00:22:49
Speaker
wave that's that's coming upon these people. and And again, this the thing is, yes, it's work, but it's also like the most natural work to do because now our nature has changed. You know, like the Bible talks about in 2 Peter 2 about how the pig, you know, you wash him off, he's going to run back to the mud.
00:23:12
Speaker
And because his nature never changed. And that happens too much. We spray people off in church and they just go right back to their garbage because God's seed, his spirit never truly entered into them to change them to where now they're a slave to what's right.
00:23:29
Speaker
you know And the Bible says because God's seed is in us, we just naturally start hating sin. we we' like we're We're not the pig anymore. Once our feet get dirty, we're like, I don't like the feel of this mud like I used to. i mean, it was tempting because my old me was coming back and it's like and it feels familiar, kind of good, but it's also like gross to us now and we got to get out.
00:23:54
Speaker
And yet, at the same time, when we're out doing the things God wants us to do, it's like, wow, this feels great. Why? Because I'm doing what God would do. you know His DNA is coming.
00:24:06
Speaker
I mean, I think about um my daughter, my second daughter, Mercy, which it's great name, isn't it? it's Mercy, you should name your granddaughter that, if you had any power to do that. When she was born, there was this moment where I was a little bit like,
00:24:22
Speaker
whoa, she looks a lot like me. You know? That's kind of scary. It was. it It actually was. Your wife, Lisa, is beautiful. Yes, and I know. And still don't know how and you got her to say yes, but go ahead, I'm sorry. Now, as a man, I'm extremely handsome, but I was.
00:24:38
Speaker
By whose standards? My mom. Well, she loved you. Go ahead. Anyways, the idea was when she would get older, when she was like four or five years old, people would look at her and still go, whoa, you look just like your dad.
00:24:58
Speaker
And she would just cry. and I mean, seriously, like like just crying because she's looking at me like, like that you know I mean, honestly, it brought her, you know, and I'd hold I'm like, honey, I'm so sorry. But I remember like all those times where she'd be crying and I'm like, honey, I'm sorry, you know, but they don't mean you look like a man, you don' you know, it's just, but but that's that's a picture I think of when I read about in 1 John about God's seed abiding in us.
00:25:32
Speaker
Like, I can't help it. Now I'm naturally gonna be more and more like Jesus. um It's in my DNA now. He abides in me. That's the idea of the spirit being in you, is you start taking on his characteristics.
00:25:48
Speaker
So now you start hating the things he hates, and you start pursuing the things that he loves. And it's not like you even try. Right? You just read. Sometimes I get mad at myself because I am doing, being obedient or doing what God wants me to do. Sometimes i say, don't, I mean, I'm just being honest with you. Sometimes to say, God, I'm tired of trying to be nice to people. I'm tired of trying to do all these.
00:26:12
Speaker
I'm tired of, but that's just my fleshly, sinful self. But the moment you start going the other direction, ah I can't. It would make you miserable. yeah And that's why it's hard when you think, gosh, how could people stay in lifestyle they're living, no do anything about some of these things that going on in the world, not have that heart for it. And um and you do have to wonder, you know is the spirit really in you?
00:26:44
Speaker
Thank you for spending time with us today.
Call to Action and Engagement
00:26:46
Speaker
In our next episode, we're going to continue this conversation as they actually talk more about how the church can do a better job at fighting human trafficking and the struggles that come with it.
00:26:55
Speaker
Now, if you're thinking to yourself after this episode that you wanna do a better job at fighting human trafficking in our nation, we actually have some action steps for you. Go to usiahd.org slash abolitionist.
00:27:07
Speaker
From there, subscribe to our newsletter. We will be sending you actionable steps that you can do to get plugged into your local community to do a better job at preventing sex trafficking and doing a better job at doing victim care for those who have been trafficked.
00:27:23
Speaker
The more abolitionists we receive, the more action steps we are taking to end this heinous crime, and we can fight together to end human trafficking in America. You can also check out some more of our content by following our social media pages or making sure to subscribe to our podcast, the Trafficking Free America podcast.
00:27:40
Speaker
Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, and we look forward to seeing you again.