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Ep.12: Natalie Wolfsen: Driving Growth through the Strategic Use of Time
13 Plays6 months ago
As we think about productivity in wealth management, there’s no shortage of tools that can help advisors get more done in less time. But as they strive to compete and grow in an evolving landscape, how can advisors create more value for clients by spending their time where it really counts? In this episode, Natalie Wolfsen, CEO of Orion, joins hosts Bill Coppel, Chief Client Growth Officer at TradePMR, and Ryan Neal, Senior Editor at TradePMR, to dive into this question. Listen as they explore: How leveraging technology can free up time for business development The benefits that can come from a thoughtful approach to outsourcing How to explore outsourcing in ways that make sense for you and your clients Subscribe now, and connect with us on social media: YouTube LinkedIn Facebook Get the transcript for this episode, with sources, at https://synergizepodcast.com/. About Natalie Wolfsen: Natalie is the CEO of Orion, a wealthtech provider serving RIA firms. She is the former CEO of AssetMark and has nearly 30 years of financial services industry experience. Natalie has served independent advisors (RIA and broker-dealer affiliated) for more than 25 years, with more than a decade of working with independent and insurance broker-dealers. Prior to joining AssetMark, Natalie held digital and investment platform development, investment solution management, strategy and marketing roles at First Eagle Investment Management, Pershing, Charles Schwab and American Express. In 2024, Barron’s recognized Natalie as one of the 100 Most Influential Women in U.S. Finance. Natalie Wolfsen and Orion are not affiliates of TradePMR. More About Natalie: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliewolfsen/ Website: https://orion.com/thought-leader/natalie-wolfsen If you want to join the conversation or connect with us, please visit us at synergize.advisorevolutionsciences.com. This content is provided for general informational purposes only. The views expressed by non-affiliated guest speakers are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of TradePMR or its affiliates. TradePMR and its affiliates do not endorse any guest speakers or their companies, and therefore give no assurances as to the quality of their products and services. This channel is not monitored by TradePMR. TradePMR does not provide investment advice, tax advice or legal advice. TradePMR is a Member of FINRA and SIPC. Trade-PMR, Inc. is registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board (MSRB). TradePMR provides brokerage and account services to registered investment advisors. Custodial services provided by First Clearing. First Clearing is a trade name used by Wells Fargo Clearing Services, LLC, Member SIPC, a registered broker-dealer and non-bank affiliate of Wells Fargo & Company. Copyright 2024 Trade-PMR, Inc.
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Transcript
Introduction to Synergize Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Synergize, unscripted conversations where we explore the evolving role of the financial advisor in an emerging AI-driven world.
00:00:11
Speaker
Join us as we bring together thought leaders across a range of disciplines and industry experts, sharing insights designed to help RIAs thrive in the industry of tomorrow.
Hosts' Introduction
00:00:22
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Hi, I'm Bill Capell, Chief Client Growth Officer at TradePMR.
00:00:27
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And I'm Ryan Neal, Senior Editor at Trade PMR, and welcome to the Synergize Podcast.
00:00:32
Speaker
Today, we're going to take a look at how fintech is impacting the role of the advisor and how they may be serving their clients.
Impact of Fintech on Advisors
00:00:40
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So Ryan, please share with our listeners what they can expect from this episode.
00:00:44
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Well, Bill, as a reporter who used to cover technology in the wealth management space, I wrote a lot about all these tools coming out to help advisors be more efficient, streamline their workflows, those sorts of things.
00:00:57
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And the bottom line with all of that is about time.
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How can we help advisors save more time or use their time better for practices that are more important to their practice?
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So when we talk about, you know,
00:01:10
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just having to compete and grow in this evolving landscape, I want to talk about how advisors can create more value for their clients by spending their time where it really counts.
00:01:22
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That question resonates with me, Ryan, because I think of time as our most valuable asset.
00:01:27
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I believe spending time where it really counts comes down to having a sound strategy and then consistently executing on it.
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For me, that means staying focused on the activities that matter, and the activities that matter should align with an RIA's growth plan.
Role of Data in Client Conversations
00:01:42
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Our guest today, Natalie Wolfson, is here to help us explore this topic.
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I think advisors are going to be deeply regretful if they don't start getting their arms around data now.
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It's an unfortunately arduous task, and again, there are providers that can help you with it, but the more you have access to your data, the more insightful you can be with your conversations with your clients as a result of that data, the more you can deploy tools that help free up your time, the more competitive and better off you're going to be in the future.
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Natalie is an industry veteran and currently CEO of Orion, a wealth tech provider serving RIA firms.
00:02:19
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Natalie, thanks for joining us.
00:02:21
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Really happy to be here, Bill and Ryan.
00:02:23
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Great, we're glad to have you with us.
00:02:26
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Let me start with this question.
00:02:27
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Natalie, you've worked in the independent space, the RIA space for a while now.
00:02:32
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As the industry's evolved, what are the trends you're seeing with regard to FinTech and how FinTech may be influencing how advisors are spending their time today?
Outsourcing for Value-Added Services
00:02:42
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You know, it's really interesting.
00:02:43
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There's honestly never been a better time to focus on advisor technology because advisors' needs are changing.
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as their clients' needs change.
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So as clients demand more of advisors, deeper financial plans, conversations about their whole life, whether it be trusts and estates or lending or finding your purpose or happiness, as their clients are demanding more in a very personalized way, because the rest of their technology, the rest of their services is highly personalized, advisors need help.
00:03:20
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And the help that they need, I would argue, is in finding more time to deliver to their clients these value-added services.
AI Streamlining Operations
00:03:29
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And there's only 24 hours in a day.
00:03:31
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And the way advisors can get that time back, in my view, is to outsource and to outsource more.
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Some advisors may choose to outsource investments.
00:03:41
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Other advisors choose to outsource technology.
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Some choose to outsource data entry and data processing.
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But the more you outsource, the more time you have, the more time you have for your life and also for your business.
00:03:55
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So you brought up a number of things that we talk about a lot on this podcast, personalization and technology being up there.
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We also talk a lot about, you know, AI.
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And I know it's become almost a buzzword at this point in 2024, but it is such a big topic in technology.
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Are you or is Orion looking at AI technology as a way to help advisors with time and even outsourcing?
00:04:19
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What opportunities do you see for AI and what are the pitfalls?
00:04:23
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Absolutely.
00:04:24
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So Orion was one of the first providers to explore AI in its CRM product, Redtail.
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We deliver a product called Redtail Speak.
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And what Redtail Speak does is it automates text messaging between advisors and their clients.
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It uses information from the CRM and gives the advisor a first draft text message to work from.
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and text messaging suggestions.
00:04:53
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In addition to that, in our portfolio construction tool, our advisor portal and our advisor portal, we've brought together the best parts of our risk measurement program, Orion Risk, the best parts of our behavioral finance programs, which are conversations that advisors have using electronic devices
00:05:15
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interfaces with their clients to learn more about their behaviors and their interactions with the market.
00:05:22
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as well as portfolio construction to put together a portfolio comparison view and then again to provide advisors with first draft communications for their clients.
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I always mention first draft because at the end of the day, the advisor knows their client better than any system possibly can and the advisor knows if the suggested draft is relevant or not.
00:05:48
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In addition, we're also exploring ways that we can help advisors be more productive in their processing interactions with Orion.
00:05:57
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And myself personally, I think the most likely, the most common use of AI will be in that back-end processing, that back-end servicing, helping advisors be more efficient with how they process information.
00:06:11
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Yeah, I want to draw attention to that last point you made, Natalie, because I think it's relevant.
00:06:16
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With AI reshaping many of the operational tasks, as you mentioned, that advisors have traditionally done, how should RIAs be thinking about leveraging AI to streamline their back offices, perhaps yielding more time to focus on business development?
00:06:31
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Yeah.
00:06:32
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In a couple of ways.
00:06:34
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So, you know, questions that you get from clients, whether they're related to operations, you know, and servicing, changing my account number, depositing a check, reconciling information from one system to another.
00:06:47
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I really think that advisors should look at AI to help them with that.
00:06:52
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And those tools are available if advisors get questions through their website or they get questions via email.
00:07:01
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There are tools available and many providers have those tools for advisors to use.
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Orion, we're exploring that on behalf of the advisors that use our systems.
00:07:12
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And then they spend their time not answering questions that are basic and process oriented and instead answering the more deep and meaningful questions or having those conversations with their clients, you know, about their life's purpose or what they their main goals are that they want to achieve with their money or how they're going to support their children and support their parents.
Challenges in Data Utilization
00:07:32
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I have a quick follow-up on that.
00:07:34
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One thing that I was noticing as a reporter was, you know, everyone is looking at these new AI technologies, and a lot of the largest financial institutions out there were really working on it.
00:07:46
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And to me, it looked like they might have an advantage just by having all that data in-house and being able to deploy that.
00:07:52
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In the independent space, are advisors able to get there as well, or is there more of a challenge just in the fact that, you know, data is around in so many different silos?
00:08:01
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Well, I mean, there's certainly data challenges everywhere.
00:08:04
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You know, whether you're a whether you're a small RIA or a big company like a custodian, you know, data accessibility is a huge challenge.
00:08:14
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I also think that there are very big businesses like Snowflake and Amazon Redshift that are trying to solve those challenges on behalf of.
00:08:22
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of small and large businesses, but data accessibility is a big challenge.
00:08:27
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Even so, that doesn't mean you can't get started.
00:08:30
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It doesn't have to be perfect before you get started.
00:08:34
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It doesn't mean you can't partner with other firms to help you solve those challenges.
00:08:41
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The last thing I'll just say is, as it relates to data itself,
00:08:47
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I think advisors are going to be deeply regretful if they don't start getting their arms around data now.
00:08:52
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It's an unfortunately arduous task, and again, there are providers that can help you with it, but the more you have access to your data, the more insightful you can be with your conversations with your clients as a result of that data, the more you can deploy tools that help free up your time, the more competitive and better off you're going to be in the future.
00:09:14
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So now let me follow on with a question about that, because I think you're absolutely right.
00:09:18
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The hard part is, you know, there's a couple of hard parts, right?
00:09:21
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It's gathering the data and then it's evaluating the data and then applying the data.
00:09:26
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And I think we hear a lot in the industry about how important data is and how important it's going to be going forward.
00:09:33
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Share with our listeners sort of your three perspectives.
00:09:38
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best thoughts around, I'm new to the data game.
00:09:42
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Help me start to develop a perspective on what I should be thinking about in terms of evaluating the data.
00:09:50
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Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:52
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So first thing I'll say is I'd add a fourth to that, which is securing the data.
00:09:57
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You know, regular bonus.
00:09:59
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Yeah.
00:10:00
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Yeah.
00:10:01
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Regulators are, you know, are deeply concerned that, you know, client data is secure and that, you know, advisors among everyone else are adhering to various privacy issues.
00:10:14
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And so commingling your data and applying it to large language models that, you know, that are industry wide or that, you know, break down firewalls is something that's really important.
00:10:29
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the regulators are absolutely not in favor of.
00:10:33
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And so securing your data and making sure that your client information that's private remains private is an extremely important first step.
00:10:44
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Second step is making sure that the way that you organize the information that you have is
00:10:50
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scalable, flexible, and highly accessible.
00:10:57
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And that's a talent.
00:10:59
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And so working with a consultant, working with a specialist in this area is extremely important.
00:11:07
Speaker
And again, your technology providers, even if they don't provide the service, we can absolutely recommend resources for you depending on the size of your firm.
Importance of Outsourcing
00:11:16
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And then the last thing I'll just say is getting used to leveraging those data in your daily interactions with your clients is extremely important.
00:11:26
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That's one of the reasons that at Orion, we feel very, very strongly that the advisor's CRM system should be at the center of their day.
00:11:35
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And then all of our other tasks hang off of that CRM system or a part of that CRM system.
00:11:42
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Because that's where your client communication begins and ends.
00:11:45
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And so having those data, whether they be about portfolios or about the financial plan or about some rebalancing you're doing or your compliance activities coming into the CRM and the CRM being your first and last screen of the day is really important.
00:12:01
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So I think a theme that I keep hearing pop up is partnership, right?
00:12:06
Speaker
And we started the conversation, you mentioned outsourcing, and as we started talking about AI and data, talked about reaching out to third parties that can help you there.
00:12:14
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So it sounds like that's your big advocate for that outsourcing model.
00:12:19
Speaker
But that can be done in a variety of ways, right?
00:12:21
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Like there's not a one size fits all approach that works for REAs.
00:12:24
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There rarely is.
00:12:25
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So what should advisors out there be considering when they decide what areas of their practice they may want to outsource?
00:12:33
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You know, it's really interesting.
00:12:36
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It's a huge opportunity for financial advisors, and yet it is so hard to do.
00:12:41
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You know, you've built your whole business around these incredible relationships you have with your clients.
00:12:47
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And the best advisors, they have deep relationships with all of their clients, deeply personal.
00:12:52
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And choosing to outsource means that you're choosing to give up control of a part of that client relationship.
00:12:59
Speaker
And it's not that advisors are, you know, adverse to outsourcing.
00:13:05
Speaker
It's that they don't want anything to get out of their control as it relates to that relationship they've spent so long and worked so hard to build.
00:13:14
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Even so, you know, you can look at all sorts of research.
00:13:18
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I tend to look at the J.D.
00:13:19
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Power research, which, you know, 28 percent of advisors say they don't have enough time with their clients because
00:13:27
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of this control, needing everything to be in their control.
00:13:31
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And we also know, you know, Fidelity's done a survey on this, Orion's done a survey on this, others in the industry have done surveys on this, that the fastest growing, most successful, happiest advisors outsource.
00:13:44
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So all three, most fulfilled with their life and their business, most successful with their client relationships, highest net promoter scores, and fastest growing, they outsource.
00:13:56
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And so if you can give up control, and I would argue where advisors should look to giving up that control are activities that...
00:14:03
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Clients don't care about or that clients that aren't highly value added to the client relationship.
00:14:10
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So look at things like for some advisors, it'll be data entry into the financial plan, or it might even be the para planning itself.
00:14:18
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For other advisors, it could be the investment management, especially for smaller clients.
00:14:24
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For other advisors, it's key pieces of the technology.
00:14:27
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They'll give up the client, the digital client experience and the building of the digital client experience.
00:14:34
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Others, it's operations or potentially your admin services.
00:14:39
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So, you know, you don't you outsource all of that so that your clients have more than one relationship.
00:14:45
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It's not just you.
00:14:46
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It's others in your in your business or in your ensemble.
00:14:50
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You can be successful in outsourcing any of those ways.
00:14:53
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And
00:14:54
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Picking those activities that you think are the lowest value add or your clients don't value and outsourcing those that leaves you more time in your day for learning, for your personal life, and then also to give back to the business, either for business development activities or for client service activities.
00:15:12
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And the growth does come.
00:15:15
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You know, it's interesting for about the last 25 years I've been working with financial advisors in one capacity or another, and many of those advisors have chosen to outsource to the company that I work for or led.
00:15:29
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And 100 percent of advisors, when you ask them after they've done it, if they regret it, they'll say that they wish they would have done it sooner.
Assessing Tasks for Outsourcing
00:15:38
Speaker
And so it's a challenge because, again, that client relationship is so valuable and changing is so hard.
00:15:45
Speaker
But when you get to the other side of it, the business grows and your lifestyle changes.
00:15:50
Speaker
You know, you raise a great point, Natalie.
00:15:52
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And I think one of the challenges, having been an advisor and understanding that control, the necessity for control, is that
00:16:03
Speaker
What's your guidance around beginning to evaluate what's creating value versus what's not creating value?
00:16:11
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I think our tendency has been, let's get rid of the things that we don't like to do or the things that are easily transferred away to an outsourced resource.
00:16:22
Speaker
But you've talked about the things that clients don't value or find little value in.
00:16:29
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What's your guidance to an RIA, for example, at beginning to assess that?
00:16:33
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I mean, guessing or running with their gut doesn't necessarily answer that question.
00:16:39
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How would you advise an RIA firm to begin to really look at what clients value versus what they don't value?
00:16:48
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So, I mean, clearly there's two ways to go about it.
00:16:52
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One way is a personal assessment that the advisor does themselves.
00:16:57
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And many advisors like to do this and need to do this because every business is unique.
00:17:03
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Another way is to just look at research.
00:17:05
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So I mentioned Fidelity.
00:17:07
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I mentioned Orion.
00:17:08
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I mentioned JD Power.
00:17:11
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Schwab does research on this.
00:17:13
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You know,
00:17:15
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BlackRock does research on this.
00:17:17
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I think State Street does research on this.
00:17:19
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So many of the large providers in the industry have studies about what investors value and what advisors spend their time on.
00:17:31
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Alternatively, so you can look at that research and see if it applies to your business.
00:17:35
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Alternatively, you can work with a consultant, a business consultant, or you can do the following yourself where you and your team, you do for several weeks, you categorize your time.
00:17:51
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into the activities that you're spending your time on and you bucket those activities.
00:17:56
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Client service, portfolio management, rebalancing, big categories of activities.
00:18:04
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And you can see where you and your teams are spending your time.
00:18:07
Speaker
And then you can send a survey out to your client base and ask them what they value.
00:18:13
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And what you know what you're going to find is there's an overlap of activities that are taking a lot of time that are not valued by your clients.
00:18:24
Speaker
And it's those activities that are ripe for outsourcing.
00:18:28
Speaker
So, for example, if you're spending a lot of your time.
00:18:32
Speaker
developing technology or you've hired a CTO or a technology resource to keep your website up to date, to keep your information up to date, to populate an investor portal of some kind, and you find out from your clients that that's kind of cost of doing business, table stakes, not something they highly value, but you know they need, well, that's a great thing to outsource.
00:18:57
Speaker
If you're spending a lot of your time chasing down
00:19:00
Speaker
Checks and operational tasks.
00:19:03
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I mean, obviously, it's extremely important that those checks are deposited and those accounts are opened and the money's available for clients.
00:19:10
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But my guess is that's not what they check on their list is most highly impactful or valuable.
00:19:15
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Well, then outsource that.
00:19:19
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Either way can work depending on how unique the services are that you're providing to your clients and also whether or not you want input from your clients directly, which clients really appreciate, or you want to start with broader research.
00:19:35
Speaker
So what I hear you saying is, take an inventory of what you do, talk to your clients about what they value, and then cross-reference the two to really begin a process of deciding what to outsource.
00:19:50
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I know it sounds like common sense, but I think a lot of firms are struggling with where to start.
00:19:56
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They hear about outsourcing and so forth.
00:19:59
Speaker
But that's great insight on your part.
00:20:02
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When you've seen this done correctly,
00:20:05
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What are some of the business benefits that firms are experiencing as a result of this?
00:20:12
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Oh my gosh, so many business benefits.
00:20:14
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So first is much easier.
00:20:19
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It's much easier to achieve consistency from one client to the other and to implement segmentations or segmented offerings for your most valued clients and to your great clients that are maybe emerging or earlier in their life.
00:20:33
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The outsourcing forces you to almost put that process in place to make sure you're delivering the right services to the clients.
00:20:42
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The second is the clients feel the impact of you being able to have more profound conversations with them more often.
00:20:52
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And so there's more referrals.
00:20:54
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Your growth goes up.
00:20:57
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The fourth, and I think in many ways most important, because when we're happy, we provide better services to our clients, is the quality of life goes up.
00:21:07
Speaker
Again, because you're not doing work that's urgent, but not important.
00:21:13
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Instead, you're getting impact out of the time you put into your client relationships and into your office relationships.
00:21:21
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And don't we all want to work on something that's more impactful and meaningful?
00:21:26
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You bring that home every day.
00:21:28
Speaker
And some advisors find that they have more hours in their day to commit to other parts of their life, whether it's
00:21:33
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You know, they want to become a, you know, a triathlete or they want to spend more time with their kids or they want to give back to the community.
00:21:40
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And it doesn't happen overnight.
00:21:42
Speaker
And outsourcing is in and of itself a project.
00:21:45
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You know, you need to make sure you treat it like a project.
00:21:48
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But on the other side is just quality of life and more time and then also more meaning.
Key Takeaways and Recap
00:21:55
Speaker
Well, I don't know if you picked that example intentionally because our man Bill over here is a triathlete.
00:22:01
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So that was a great example.
00:22:04
Speaker
And, you know, throughout this conversation, if I was to boil it down to one quotable phrase, I guess I would go with jack of all trades, master of none, right?
00:22:12
Speaker
And advisors don't have to do that.
00:22:14
Speaker
They can focus on where they are masters and let others bring in their expertise.
00:22:19
Speaker
But for you, Natalie, thanks again for being here.
00:22:23
Speaker
If you could boil it down to maybe...
00:22:25
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three actual items that we could give our listeners for what they can start doing today to refine how they're spending their time as part of a growth strategy.
00:22:33
Speaker
How would you sum up this conversation?
00:22:36
Speaker
The first thing I would just say is there's more than one way to have control of the client relationship.
00:22:41
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You can still control the client relationship and make sure it's meaningful and important, even if you work with partners to help you get there.
00:22:49
Speaker
The second is that you should value your time as your most scarce resource.
00:22:56
Speaker
And in doing so, doing a time study about what you're spending time on and how much your clients value it or looking at industry research, if you're open to that, it's just a great way to reorient your time.
00:23:08
Speaker
And then the last is you can outsource in any way that makes sense for you and your clients.
00:23:13
Speaker
And on the other side of it, again, I have 100 percent hit rate with advisors who have felt that they should have outsourced sooner.
00:23:23
Speaker
So with that, I'll hand it back to you, Ryan and Bill.
00:23:26
Speaker
Well, listen, Natalie, thank you so much for sharing your insights and thoughts on how advisors can begin to think about technology, fintech, particularly AI, as a means to reallocate their time in more productive ways, for example.
00:23:45
Speaker
Really appreciate your thoughts.
00:23:47
Speaker
Thank you, it's been fun to be here.
00:23:49
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Yes, thank you, Natalie.
00:23:50
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So as a brief recap, our three ways were, one, there's more than one way to have control of the client relationship.
00:23:58
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Two was you can value your time as your most scarce resource and to evaluate that you can do a time study.
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And number three, think about outsourcing in a way that makes sense for you and your clients.
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Most, if not all, advisors feel like they, or wish they would have done so sooner.
00:24:15
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So we hope you enjoyed today's conversation.
00:24:18
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And if you like what you heard, please take a moment to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, follow us on social media, and we'll catch you on the next one.
00:24:27
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And thanks for listening and watch out for our next episode where we'll bring you even more insights and actionable ideas to help you grow your business.
00:24:35
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And remember, the challenge is yours to capitalize on what the future offers.
00:24:43
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If you want to join the conversation or connect with us, please visit us at synergize.advisorevolutionsciences.com.
00:24:51
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For a transcript of this episode with sources, visit synergize.advisorrevolutionsciences.com.