Transcript
Speaker: Hello Podwalkers, and welcome to another episode of Goblin Lore. This episode is the second of our two -part interview with Magic the Gathering artist Adam Paquette.
Speaker: We were so delighted to have had so much material with Adam that we were able to split the entire interview into two sections. And that's not all. We've got another two episodes with Adam afterwards due to our overwhelming amount of mailbag listener questions. In this episode, we talk a little bit more with Adam about what Magic the Gathering planar design might look like if he had his way about it.
Speaker: We talk a little bit about Adam's inspirations and classical art and a little bit more. I think you'll all really enjoy this conclusion to the interview. So without any further ado, let's get to the show. I was actually thinking that when we were talking about this, because you have done at least, I think, one or two planes for the plane chase set.
Speaker: Is that correct? I did Kesig. Yeah. Did I do another one? I think that was it. Okay. So that you actually, I mean, you do have a little bit more card room. That art is going to be more of a traditional landscape and a bigger thing. And I don't know if that would have, I mean, I'm just, that just stood out to me as we're discussing this because I'm wondering if that changes it at all, what you kind of have the freedom to do.
Speaker: I think at the time, I was still pretty new to working for Magic when that happened. I hadn't seen those cards before, so I didn't really factor it in. I think it's always the case, even with full art lands or something like that, that as a digital painter, it doesn't really make a huge difference to me. They're all 24 inches to me.
Speaker: Now as shifting into oil painting, it would definitely make more of a difference. But now I paint everything knowing that there's playmads, there's prints, there's traditional market, there's all that sort of stuff.
Speaker: Definitely, I would say the bigger the better for me, like the paintings that I just wrapped up with 36 inches and that's a really good. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's like a really fun size for me. And probably at that point it hits like, okay, I'm going to have to really think about how this scales down because I'm going to lose these little details in the background. But I want them there for the buyer when they have that painting because it's really cool little details, you know.
Speaker: But yeah, well and with things like more magic art shows happening Having those bigger pieces. I went to the one that they did the first one in Vegas getting to see the differences in Some of the older paintings that were painted very very small Versus some some ones that had been done at a larger scale was interesting to see those Contrasted as the way the art was hung. Yeah I would love to like
Speaker: try a one -to -one scale oil painted magic card and just like you know whip out the microscope and see you know I think it just would be a really fascinating thing to paint exactly at the size it's going to be seen and like maybe that results in a really really clear precise image you know I've seen I've seen plenty of painters that can work that small so
Speaker: I'd be curious. Even just like maybe at the card size, it would look super real and traditional if it was, if it was reproduced one to one, you know, and it would, it would, you'd see the brushstrokes at that point. And you say that you, you say that you don't have enough vocabulary of experimentation, but I'm hearing a lot of mental stuff right here, even with theoretical at this point, let's, let's, let's see if I actually do it. Hey, Hey DaVinci had to write his journals before he ever got to make a flying machine. So thank you.
Speaker: Wait, he actually made a flying machine? What? Did you not play Assassin's Creed? Come on. That's a documentary, right?
Speaker: So Adam, you've kind of helped. I mean, I think when I did the Scryfall search on you, I came up with 164 cards. Way off. Really? I just finished number 205. But they're not released yet. Yeah, 164 that we have released. I mean, if you want to talk about the other 40, we're not going to stop you, but we also want you to keep getting work for Magic, so...
Speaker: Yeah, there's a really red one that I like and there's one with lots of green. You guys will love that one. There's some white, blue, and black ones in there too, right? It seems like there's a trick question in there. I'm not going to answer that. Yeah, Joe, come on.
Speaker: What we really want to know is when he's doing a goblin. Okay, so we talked a little bit about this during the intro, but what you're really kind of known for in magic, I mean, a lot of what comes up is landscapes. I mean, it's the nature piece that you kind of described.
Speaker: that you engaged with, I think, in your childhood a lot more. And I'm just curious, do you have kind of a favorite plane that's been to illustrate the environment of? We have you. Innistrad is kind of the first main expansion story that we have that you worked on. And Ravnica, we know, is the two of the most prolifically represented in magic artwork. They have a very clear kind of the Eastern Central European look. We're kind of curious, what plane has been your favorite to illustrate for?
Speaker: I would say probably Kaladesh because of that connection to my childhood and in the end more than design, it's just the atmosphere. There was a card that I did that I think it was originally meant to be planes and it ended up as a swamp. It's kind of like orange sunset one and it's over these rice fields.
Speaker: And that was just straight out of my dream memory of being a kid in India and having these crazy red sunsets and this kind of feeling of open sky, but dusky and hazy and whatever.
Speaker: Like that was a difficult world, especially cause like I was, I was part of the reason that it ended up full of so much swirly curl metal filigree stuff, which I'm sure everyone hates me for. But, um, I mean the artists cause it was such hard work to, to paint it. Um, but definitely, definitely Kaladesh and, and even just like, uh, the.
Speaker: Was it another swamp, this kind of blue one with the curly plants? There was just something really that brought me back to that atmospheric feeling of what fantasy is in that.
Speaker: The other one would definitely be Ravnica. That was really the kind of fantasy that I loved to read when I was a kid. I loved China Mayville's The Scar. I don't know if any of you read that. He's a great fantasy writer and he wrote this book about a city that was made out of ships that had been kind of gang pressed together by pirates and slowly over time created this floating city.
Speaker: So I just loved anything that had complex overlapping architecture and slums and Tokyo and like anything where there's little hidden.
Speaker: you know, ways to navigate through that place. Density, I just love that urban density stuff. So Ravnica is really cool and playing with the vertical dimension in a city, which you normally think of as, you know, streets on a horizontal plane. So playing with, you know, canyons made out of buildings. But again, I got that in Kaladesh with Spire Bluff Canal. That was one of my favorite paintings ever, just because it was like, oh, city, you know, that's kind of never -endingly deep. That's right up my alley.
Speaker: Um, so yeah, Kaladesh, Ravnica, Innistrad, not so much. I, I found, even though it was actually the reason they got me on board with magic initially was Jarvis was like, you know, we, I think you have a really dark kind of moody atmospheric lighting. And it's true. Like, and your art is also great, but, uh, you know, there was a real limitation there. It was like, we want the camera always at ground level. You know, it's, it's, there's never bright daylight and.
Speaker: Um, it was kind of nice to like lift up out of that world. And I think, I think directly after we went to maybe Zendikar, I think was it directly after Innistrad, I think. And it was like, whoa, sunlight.
Speaker: It just gives you more to play with, it seems like, right? I mean, having those differences of, gosh, now all of my art words are failing me. Differences of values, but like different light sources and all that sort of stuff just gives you more with. Wow. I'm sorry. Can I get that deeper? We explore tonal ranges. Oh, my God.
Speaker: Damn, that is a nice mic setup. But no, yeah, it seems like that just gives you more sort of knobs to twist and play within your artwork then, you know. Totally. I mean, I think if.
Speaker: if we never changed worlds or if it was like, okay, you know, each artist is going to get assigned a plane and you become an expert of that plane. I'd be like, Oh no, no way. I'm out. Sorry guys. Like I need that. I need that to, you know, to, to change it up. And, you know, um, I actually took a break from magic, uh, when they were doing Ixalan and I was bombed like, cause I didn't, I didn't know what was going on cause I was out. And so like, I didn't really know until it got announced and I was like, what?
Speaker: That is so cool. So I really hope that there's a return to Ixalan at some point. I get to dive into that. Cool. And we're curious if you got to design it, what would you kind of like to take from that Australian history or kind of an Oceana themed plane? If you could direct it. Oh, as a designer plane for magic? Yeah. Okay. So I think the things for me, and it's also really cool to think about this now that I live overseas because the longer I'm away, the more I appreciate the differences and start to miss stuff.
Speaker: The nature in Australia is... I think it's easy to think of it as kind of barren in a way. It's not jungle, it's not forest, it's not mountains, it's pretty flat, it's pretty desert -y in a lot of places. And the bush, our forest, what we call the bush,
Speaker: is really dry. And it's like, I mean, you can't walk through it. Like there's so much scrub and tangled undergrowth and stuff that kills you. Um, that, uh, you know, it's, it's pretty impenetrable, but it's super, super alive. Like my memory of it is the sound of insects, like deafening, deafening sound of life. And being in German forests is like, where's everybody at? Where'd everyone go? You know, something I said, um,
Speaker: So like I don't know how you would get noise into a magic plane, but I would definitely get that feeling of like The danger is like everywhere You can't really see it and it's kind of intense and it's like almost like it would probably be close to Zendikar actually It's sort of like the land itself is is alive and dangerous. I think Australia is
Speaker: entirely a place that's entirely dependent on its relationship with water. So I would see a plane that
Speaker: featured a contrast between the inland desert and the coastal regions. I would see something where water is the precious resource or something that is a metaphor for that. And some kind of battle for control over that. And the history of the Aboriginal people of Australia is fascinating because they were nomadic and they didn't build cities. They didn't have that kind of city -state
Speaker: thing. So, you know, like, what does that mean to, to have to work with the land to be constantly on the move, to be dealing with like open spaces, open skies, open coastlines, and to be kind of skirmishing and dealing with that kind of raw environment. So it'd be like survival, like dialing down the, the map curve, you know, and yeah, keeping things moving a lot. So probably,
Speaker: Yeah. I really love this idea of the control of a resource. I mean, obviously I've just started reading Dune for the first time. This is an odd thing, but I mean, the first thing I was thinking of is that's not an island state. I mean, it's just a land with little moisture in it, but this idea that could the coastal people really being able, the ones that are controlling this resource and what's that fighter battle look like?
Speaker: Right. I mean, like Australia is a coastal country, like everyone, like 99 % of people live around the coast. And so I think it would be interesting, you know, what happens if, you know, back to not Australia, but the Oceania Plain, like what happens when the coast isn't safe anymore and everyone gets pushed inland? You know, what if the danger is coming from the ocean, which is their source of water and of life and of food and everything like that. And that's where the danger comes from. And so they get pushed into the middle.
Speaker: But of course, the middle is where the ancient power is. And so that's where the other resource is that can help to balance the danger. And this idea that basically, as we know in Australia, everything can kill you would be great to be represented on cards. I really like, I don't know. Because we don't already have a game where everything's designed to kill each other.
Speaker: Yeah, we don't we don't have creature type koala yet though. And so I'm just trying to drop there. But I mean, this idea that you said it's almost like the buzzing the insects. I mean, it's the it's the unseen that really is the danger. The danger. It'd be cool to just like have some sort of like mechanic for like how many cards you have out. Sorry, how many land cards you have out.
Speaker: deals damage to you over time. So you have to like keep cycling your lands out and managing like trying to keep less matter on the board. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It does have what you're describing sort of has this, uh, this intense, almost like, even though what you're saying is there's no mountains, there's no large forest sort of thing, wide open skies. If it feels like Montana here in the U S but, uh,
Speaker: But it's still the sound that I'm hearing in my mind's ear, I guess, is sort of this oppressive feeling, even though you're white out in the middle of nowhere. And that's a really compelling sort of aesthetic. I like that a lot. Yeah. And it's heat, too. It's the sound. It's the heat. There's no shade. There's nowhere to hide. That's cool. Yeah. If you're listening, Wizards. You should be listening. This is a great podcast.
Speaker: And that is going on our endorsements reel. Yeah. We can ask for that and add it to the Patreon. Perfect. So the first magic art that we saw from you was a Japanese promo part of the lands from that, I think in 2011. The magic premiere shop, I believe. Yeah. That worked on the first stuff I did, but it was, yeah, pretty close to it. Okay.
Speaker: Um, Mike Lineman, Vortos Mike, referenced that in one of his articles in 2015 on cool stuff, which was kind of comparing you to the Hudson River School painters of the 1800s. Which, you know, here's me sitting here knowing nothing, but just reading that sense, I'm like, we've got a badass one. I don't even know what the Hudson River School painters are.
Speaker: It was actually just like a bunch of kids that went to the Hudson River School and decided to paint. That'd be a lot easier for me to deal with. Is this a comparison that you're comfortable with? Is it accurate? I definitely see where he's coming from. I'm not super up on my Hudson River School Painter history.
Speaker: But if I remember correctly, they kind of had a mandate to popularize the idea of kind of national parks and nature in the public consciousness.
Speaker: And part of, uh, part of what they were doing was idealizing nature. So they were, they were realistically painting, but they were also kind of modifying and exaggerating and creating this kind of allegorical. I mean, I dunno, if you look at their paintings, I've been up to the Hudson river. It doesn't look like that. I wish it did. Um, it's beautiful. I love it, but it doesn't look like that.
Speaker: It may have looked like that in the 1800s. Potentially. Potentially. Isn't there like one painting where they're like looking over the Hudson Valley and it's got like jungle trees and ferns and stuff? You know, having lived in Boston and traveled up through New York, also not my memory of it. Right. But, you know, I love those paintings, but also like I never really felt like I was super connected to them. Like it's, you know, obviously it's not my country, so I don't have that kind of
Speaker: you know, patriotic drive to love to love these movements of American painters. I think they're they're beautiful paintings, but they're a bit for me. They're a bit. What's the word? They're a bit dry. They're a bit kind of. Yeah, a bit a bit too simple, but to to lacking in in. They don't have that fire that you were talking about before. That's sort of that influential, the spiritual element underpinning.
Speaker: Yeah, so, you know, like, I guess if you were to look at realistic painting against fantastic painting.
Speaker: I think that there's a spectrum, like if you're talking about realism in terms of being able to render convincingly and create a convincing image, then I definitely fall on that side of painting. That's my background and I've tried to break away from that and do abstract work and I find that really difficult. So I'll always come back to that technicality. But in terms of the content,
Speaker: I think you have on one end of the spectrum, I'm trying to paint truly to what reality is. And on the other end of the spectrum, you have I'm completely making this up and idealizing this world. And that's kind of like a Plato Aristotle thing. Like the truth is here in the real world or the truth is in the realm of the ideal. And I'm really interested in the
Speaker: exact midpoint between those two things. So like for me, with my, my life that I've lived in my, in my background, I see real magic in the world and I'm interested like exactly where does that reside and how do you bring that into artwork? Artists that get, there's, there's two artists that are really influential for me and they sit just on either side of that midpoint. One is Antonio Lopez Garcia.
Speaker: who's a Spanish painter and the kind of the father of the Spanish realist school of contemporary painting. He's alive still.
Speaker: He paints very, very realistically. He paints from life. He paints over many, many sessions over years. And he does these huge paintings of Madrid, like cityscapes. He paints, you know, he'll do a 300 hour painting of a tree in the backyard of his house as it changes over the seasons and loses its leaves and then gets them again. And I mean, he's going out and putting little marks on the leaves to measure.
Speaker: He's pushing realism to the point where he's questioning his own sense of reality. Like, am I really here? Am I really seeing this? Does this thing exist? To a point of kind of almost Zen Buddhist attempt to interrogate reality. And I would consider him like a magic realist on the realist side.
Speaker: And then there's someone, Vincent Desiderio, who's a Philly -based painter and teacher, a brilliant artist, and he paints almost entirely kind of from imagination, but he's allegorizing his ideas about the world of painting and kind of philosophically engaging with human history through his painting.
Speaker: Maybe a better example would be someone like Odd Nerdrum, someone else who's painting these kind of archetypal, iconic spiritual scenes from imagination with idealized figures, but they're all painting, you know, quote -unquote, realistically. And he sits more on the fantasy side of it, where it's clearly not grounded in the world that we live in,
Speaker: but in the, in the ideas that underpin our thinking. And so I'm like, my fine art is going bang in the middle of those two and a number of other influences and really investigating like I'm fascinated. Like, would it be possible to find that exact midpoint and have someone not know if it's grounded in, in the ideal or in the real sort of the uncanny valley almost like you want to hit right at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I'm looking at some of the work right now of the Hudson Valley School of People. So among the Sierra Nevadas, a California piece. So the Sierra Nevadas is where I spent a lot of my childhood. Is that a Bierstadt painting? Yes, it is. And I actually spent a lot of time in the Sierras hiking. That's where my family vacationed because we had a friend with a cabin. So we were able to go. And hiking has always been one of my things, getting away
Speaker: hiking trails that there aren't other people on. And I'm looking at this painting and the realism piece to it, I can see where maybe Vortos Mike was kind of talking about where your landscapes come in here. Even that piece that we were looking at from your swamp, the Kaladesh swamp. It's like I see that with that realism of what you saw in India looking over that plains that became a swamp.
Speaker: With just the sky swirled in the back, is that touch of that fantastical that you're almost adding to your viewpoint? I think probably the interesting thing that came, I don't know, it might have even been a part of that article that he wrote, but the thing that has interested me over time when I've gotten feedback on my work from the Magic community,
Speaker: And also from like people like my mum, like people that kind of know my work but aren't super qualified to put language to it is like, I love your use of light. And this to me was another one of those things that in the beginning was like, yeah, that means nothing. Like everyone uses light. What do you mean by that?
Speaker: It's like, I love your use of hair. It's all me. But over time, I'm like, OK, how do I actually use light differently? And I think what maybe something that Mike noticed or subconsciously comes through in that work, especially in the early work in that Innistrad stuff, is that I often put my light source in the painting. So I was often painting the sun through clouds in the piece.
Speaker: And that's a really kind of, and I wasn't doing it consciously, but it's a really classical way to structure a painting. And it has to do with like the history of linear perspective and the connection between paintings and religion.
Speaker: because all of these things, this linear perspective vanishing point, the way of structuring an imagined space like that, comes out of some kind of dialogue between the real world and God, or the ineffable one, as some artists used to call it.
Speaker: And so I had this relationship in those early paintings without realizing it between the sun and the perspective of the image and whether the clouds were covering the sun or not. And this also came out of the first world that I jumped into. I was told what kind of light there needed to be. It needs to be this time of day. There's a restriction on that.
Speaker: And so I guess some part of me was playing against that and like, okay, you don't, you don't, you don't lie to this. I'm going to sneak it in there. You know, like it's going to be in the painting, but, but somehow dimmed down, you know? So definitely like, and still, like if I look at it, I actually referenced that Bierstadt painting in something that I did recently. So there's an element of, I claim that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Totally unprepared. I think there's paintings where the light is incidental and it's just there to illuminate what's going on and you focus on the subject. And then I think there's paintings where the light.
Speaker: is visually represented in the painting and it's creating an allegory or a metaphor for something. And you follow the path of that light through the work and it's symbolic. And in fact, all of the personal work, the personal projects that I'm doing at the moment are 100 % related to light as a metaphor and in all kinds of ways, like reducing things back to simple relationships between
Speaker: illumination and darkness. So yeah, I think Mike definitely nailed the essence of something there, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the Hudson painters are a touchstone for me. It kind of brings us to bringing now this whole discussion that we have to this marriage between the game that we play and your art or art in general, kind of the beauty of nature and embracing the physical world, which is kind of what we've been talking about here with how
Speaker: You have engaged with the physical world, how that comes through in your art. And now we're talking about that through our love of a simulated game, that we're playing in these worlds. Was that a question? No. I don't like questions, but I am. I agree with your statement. I mean, but I think it is kind of, and Alex and Joe, I would love to hear you kind of talk a little bit about
Speaker: how this has been for you and turning of how we play the game and embracing the physical nature, especially when it's a game that we often are playing indoors or digitally and we're not, I mean, it's not like I'm sitting, well, actually, to be fair, I've done it outdoors, but it's not that I'm going to be camping and bringing along my cards with me and engaging in that same way, especially a gathering game that requires people or an internet connection or
Speaker: I mean, that maybe isn't engaging in the real world or the physical world in the same way. And I want to know what that's been like for you two. Yeah, I think we kind of get into some of that a lot when we, you know, we're sort of going through the process right now of planning our get togethers for Magic Fest Minneapolis coming up this August. And, you know, one of the big, like you touched on before, Hobbs,
Speaker: We really try to emphasize the gathering aspect and to me that's a lot of how at least as a player and a fan I connect in the physical world is You know just having those opportunities to engage with people. It's not so much necessarily Engaging with nature and and I think that's hard like that is a hard thing to think through and I know that actually less
Speaker: I don't remember if it was last summer or the summer before I did a couple of like day trip road trips with my wife and I had uh Around minnesota just to local historical sites and i've actually found uh a number of Places that I I thought I surprisingly looked like magic cards. There's a petroglyphs about 90 miles southwest In minnesota southwest of minneapolis found out reference guys
Speaker: knows. Oh, quick, quick. I know where Muragande is straight up. I mean, but it's it's one of those things where I do think that you can have those elements you sort of mentioned Adam, seeing the magic in the real world and some of just this massive exposure to all of these images in these car in this card game has made me like, just double take when I'm doing my my mail route at work when I'm delivering mail or you know, like, oh,
Speaker: That's something that I've seen on X. I think that's a really good point. I think that trying to rely on a game to get you out into nature is not what it was designed to do. And I don't think that it's the responsibility of magic to get
Speaker: people to do that. But I think that it's super fascinating to think of how has this influenced me and how has this changed the way that I look at the world. And I agree with you that it's large. I think the power of magic lies in social connection and in psychology and in
Speaker: This kind of laboratory where you sit and you're always investigating how each other's minds are working, like whether you're strategizing and being competitive or whether you're finding your feet in a new social circle or whatever, it's a human connection thing and I think that has to stay.
Speaker: That's probably the one thing that I would stay away from digital magic and keep pumping up and putting resources into physical magic. It has to stay around the table. It's about that.
Speaker: It's about local stores. It's about playing at each other's houses. And I love that part of it. And then I think the nature part does come from that. It comes from seeing the trees on your way to work instead of the billboards. Even because it reminds you of a magic card, but just because you're more adapted to looking at interesting, beautiful things and less adapted at looking at advertising. I hope that
Speaker: magic just by deepening people's appreciation for beauty and for aesthetics, allows the people that engage with it to go out in the world with a better eye for that stuff and more enthusiasm for the world around them, period.
Speaker: I mean, boom, don't drop that mic. That was drop mine as well. I mean, it's bringing me back to thinking even like Joe said, we're getting ready for magic fest Minneapolis coming up. Um, last year we did a barbecue grill out at my house. We had just tables out playing outdoors.
Speaker: This he's gone for the invite again i can feel it coming so she is bored and i mean we i mean it we also last year actually played a cube event the next day at a mini art center basically an art studio that let us use that space i know people that play a lot more in places like england.
Speaker: that get together at the pub. I mean, in the pub atmosphere is very different than things that we have in America, I would say, and villages. But the idea is just the idea that we want to showcase our city, we want to showcase the gathering. And the part of that to me is the nature, it's playing magic in non traditional spaces.
Speaker: And I think that's what I wanted to dovetail onto and highlight what you said Hobbs is non -traditional because it is getting people out of the convention center or the LGS necessarily and saying like, yeah, let's go to this, you know, the microbrewery down the street or whatever, you know.
Speaker: You know that some of the most interesting people I've had chats with were people that came to magic events who were either in the military or did stuff like worked on oil rigs. Like people that had a lot of spare time and they wanted a complex game that was going to keep them entertained after, you know, monopoly ran its course or whatever.
Speaker: And so there were people that were doing tours in Iraq or that were working out on a mine for six months and they would go out and obviously they had disposable income and not much to do with it. So they'd buy enough cards for everyone and they'd teach everyone else how to play magic.
Speaker: you know, then it's like what happens with that interesting complexity and psychology and game structure somewhere like that, you know, like, wow, like who's a spike in a in a barracks full of spikes, you know, what is what is really funny about this atom is almost like you plan. I actually work at a hospital for veterans. So
Speaker: I'm a psychologist and I work at a hospital in the States for veterans. When I was a trainee, I told one of the groups that I was working with in this group -based program, hey, let's start a group teaching some of these guys to play magic, mainly guys in the program that I was in. And I got this pushback of veterans playing magic. Why would military people wouldn't enjoy that? I said, you don't seem to understand. My first trainee was in San Diego near
Speaker: the ships, the naval base, the naval bases. Wow. And I who came in dropping cash. It was it was the guys from the military because they had nothing to do on a boat. They needed something that could be played in a small area that didn't take up a ton of space. Yep.
Speaker: and was complex and had strategy. And so they were - Everyone on deck and they're like, out come the magic cards. Yeah. Everyone on deck. Like legacy, commander, what are you talking about? But I had to - For that pun, sorry, Hobbs, for that pun, you are welcome back anytime you want. Oh, yeah. That's a little fun. But it was - Is it better than mega soda? Yeah, Joe, have you found us mega soda yet? Still working on it. I'm a terrible producer, guys.
Speaker: But I had to convince this group of people I worked with who had kind of this preconceived notion about who was, quote unquote, a player of these games, not realizing, like you said, the oil field is the other good example of people who have money and can't really leave. Their job is in this place where they can't get to a local gaming store. So they need something that they can do with people. And magic has been that for a lot of groups that you wouldn't think of. Go magic. Go magic, yeah.
Speaker: It's all going to change when this Netflix thing comes out, and then everyone's going to know what magic is, and it's going to become super legit and cool and everywhere. More than it is, maybe. I was not playing it that way. Let's end there. Well, for the part one. Should I go and change my clothes so we can do a part two, and it looks like it's a different day? Yeah, I mean, it's completely audio, but it will feel like that. You'll hear it coming through this ephemeral quality.
Speaker: That's our show. You can find the podcast at Goblin Lore Pod on Twitter or email any comments, questions, or concerns to goblinlorepodcast at gmail .com. If you'd like to support your friendly neighborhood gop slugs, you can do so at patreon .com slash goblinlorepod.
Speaker: This episode of Gobble Knore was hosted by Hobbs Q, where you can find on Twitter at Hobbs Q. This episode was written and co -hosted by Alex Newman, who you can find on Twitter at Alexander Newham. Engineering, editing, and production for this episode by Joe Redman, who you can find on Twitter at Vintorn. That's F -Y -N -V -4. Our music is by Vintergotten, who you can find at vintergotten .com.
Speaker: Thank you all for listening, and remember, goblins, like snowflakes, are only dangerous in numbers.
