In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Cathy Hackl, the tech futurist widely known as the “Godmother of the Metaverse”. Together, they explore the failings of the metaverse, the wider emerging tech space, and what comes next for AI.

Cathy makes clear that the future of AI isn’t defined by language alone. Looking beyond LLMs, it will have a much bigger impact in the physical world. That’s why Phil and Cathy discussed world models, spatial intelligence, and even why Claude can’t come to your house and change your lightbulb… Yet!

They delve into the shifts we’re seeing as a result of AI, including the reality of AI-driven layoffs and how societies will have to shift when AI is embedded in everything we do.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * What really happened to the metaverse, and which parts survived
 * Why the future of AI extends beyond language models into the physical world
 * How world models and spatial intelligence are reshaping the next wave of innovation
 * Why enterprises are struggling to scale AI despite widespread adoption
 * The growing tension between AI-driven efficiency and workforce stability

Guest Snapshot

Cathy Hackl is a tech futurist, investor, and gaming executive, and a leading voice on spatial computing and the future of the internet. She has worked with global brands including Nike, Ralph Lauren, and Louis Vuitton, currently holding a role with Nokia, and is an active member of the World Economic Forum.

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Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
Cathy Hackl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyhackl/

Beyond LLMs into the physical world: Phil Fersht with Cathy Hackl

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Julie Sweet, Chair and CEO of Accenture, to discuss what leadership looks like when macro volatility collides with technology advancement. In particular, they explored why cost cutting alone won’t drive enterprise growth.

As organizations race to scale AI, Julie made one thing very clear: ‘You do not cut your way to growth”. The conversation pushes beyond experimentation into accountability, how enterprises scale adoption across the enterprise, and the importance of nurturing the next generation of talent.

This episode tackles the real questions facing enterprise leaders: How do you drive growth, protect talent pipelines, and reinvent yourself at scale? And how do they do it all at once?

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * Why “you do not cut your way to growth” in the AI era
 * What it means to commit AI initiatives to the P&L
 * The core differences between proof-of-concepts and enterprise scale
 * Why volatility is forcing significant reinvention
 * How AI is reshaping entry level jobs, and why preserving them matters

Guest Snapshot

Julie Sweet is the Chair and CEO of Accenture, responsible for 800,000 employees across approximately 120 different countries. After 15 years at the firm, she became the CEO in 2019 and has guided them through a global pandemic and the rapid advancement of AI.

Explore More

Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
Julie Sweet on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-sweet/

You can’t cut yourself to growth: Phil Fersht with Julie Sweet

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Mohamad Ali, Head of IBM Consulting. They delved into what happens when one of the largest services organizations begins operating more like a software firm in the AI era.

The conversation covered everything from how digital workers are reshaping delivery models, to the reimagination of margin structures and how value is defined. As enterprises demand more for less, Phil and Mohamad dig into IBM Consulting’s big bets and what the next phase of technology means for the industry.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * Why the consulting and software worlds are colliding
 * How enterprise expectations are changing
 * The growth of human and digital offerings.
 * Whether AI driven efficiency shrinks margins or grows them
 * What “trillions of agents” means for the modern enterprise
 * Why leaders who stutter will fall behind in the AI era.

Guest Snapshot

Mohamad Ali leads IBM Consulting, overseeing the entire global services organization that generates over $20 billion in annual revenue. He spent almost 14 years at IBM between 1996 and 2009, before embarking on an career that saw him serve as the CEO at two different companies, before ultimately returning to help lead IBM’s enterprise AI play in 2023.

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Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/

HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/

Mohamad Ali on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alimohamad/

Inventing the agentic enterprise playbook at IBM: Phil Fersht with Mohamad Ali  

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Richard Seroter, Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud. They discuss the latest developments with enterprise AI and why its impact feels different to every technology wave before it.

The conversation looks deeper than flashy press releases and hype to explore how AI is reshaping behaviours, decision-making and enterprise risk. It covers everything from the shift in how people search and interact with technology to the growing tension between speed, trust, and scale.

Phil and Richard delve into whether advantage comes from moving first with AI, what separates experimentation from transformation, and why AI adoption will be defined by outcomes.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes

 * Why Google’s move into the enterprise collided with the AI explosion
 * How ChatGPT changed consumer expectations, and what it revealed about how humans want to interact
 * First movers versus fast followers, and why second mover advantage matters more
 * Why Services-as-Software is growing, and what it signals about the industry’s future

Guest Snapshot

Richard Seroter is the Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud, where he works across enterprises, developers, and leaders to drive outcomes with emerging technologies. Richard previously held roles at firms like VMWare, Microsoft, and Accenture.

Explore More

 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbXVOeEVzeWE1Y1VPLTJ4MzRkYmgwbG5YeVhuQXxBQ3Jtc0tsRnFMNjV1Z2hybDFiTUNxSUR2a0NScmIteHFvajJ4bWtpVm5OMTVSMUpnQjdPTHAyQU9DeEFNNzFIaWhsZENUUVFTU2luYUIyODIydUZVOUVYa2ZEOVowSnVNa1lBZVJIT25GVWVHbm5KeG9KNHp3Zw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fphilipfersht&v=d_Q7GhFLnxk]https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
 * HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbFRaRlpROUtuM3ZIUHZzT1hPbGdHVHJ4eHVJd3xBQ3Jtc0ttXzBhalJaejlLUVhMeWFaNHRTOS1QZ0dwS01JMFBXSEF6U2RzNi1mUXJTUDZ5cFBrUVRwMWpjSm4wcFBmQUtPdVZuN2x2LVVNMmVGdmtqN1VGOXZDLWpobF9pZ09YT3VsTXNIY2ptaUV1VlZXaFZldw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hfsresearch.com%2F&v=d_Q7GhFLnxk]
 * Richard Seroter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seroter/

The new enterprise stack and Google's AI play: Phil Fersht with Richard Seroter

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht sits down with Gary Hoberman, Founder and CEO of Unqork, to break down what’s really happening below the AI hype, and why the race to scale AI might just be deepening enterprises’ technical debt.

Enterprises are discovering that speed alone isn’t the advantage they thought it was. Security, reliability, repeatability, and explainability are becoming the real bottlenecks for AI adoption. It’s exposing a divide between what can be built quickly, and what can be trusted at scale.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes

 * Why AI is accelerating code creation, but enhancing complexity
 * The hidden risks of low-code, AI-assisted development, and code replication
 * Why security, reliability, repeatability, and explainability matter more than speed
 * Why control, not velocity, will define the next phase of enterprise transformation

Guest Snapshot

Gary Hoberman is the Founder and CEO of Unqork, a no-code enterprise application platform used across key industries like financial services, insurance, healthcare, and the public sector. He is a former CIO and technology leader at firms like Citi and MetLife, and has spent more than three decades building and scaling mission-critical systems in highly regulated environments.

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Gary Hoberman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-hoberman/
Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
More from HFS: https://www.hfsresearch.com [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbk41SWowbXFBWUNONHU0VlFkbnhrMU5NVDZxQXxBQ3Jtc0ttREVDVW1teC1LQU1LVF9QYWZaZ3ZyS2pTTkNWQ1BnVERlOXpGVlg1OHZTdHdLMlNLRm5OVTNPM1NVLVM1Z0FlNTdVNURsVzVfOURrai1ISXZuSUxJVWVIREtxQzk5XzJUNkhXSkFGWUdKRUUwNmFUaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hfsresearch.com%2F&v=hGcvMD0i60k]
More from From the Horse's Mouth: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbkdDVmk5aUhKN0o3RTEyellNdXFfUm1RTHdSd3xBQ3Jtc0ttTVpyZXRzQjRCWC16TmJVTVBLaEVfYVI2RzA4S2hwVS1xTHZBa3BDNlc4MWZYMjVwbm5WRlVOaHVyZFRFVldLajYxT2IxWE1ldTlvc1lUN192WUdBOUN5NHV5RDRKUTljOGNvZl92SVlDY1I3bkNlOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fhorsesmouthpodcast.com%2F&v=hGcvMD0i60k]

Fast AI and fragile enterprises: Phil Fersht with Gary Hoberman

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht sits down with Malcom Frank to unpack why the IT Services model is starting to crack, as well as what comes next once AI reshapes delivery, scale, and value.

They delve into topics from Wall Street’s growing skepticism of traditional services economies to the challenge of scaling extraordinary people. It’s a conversation that cuts through the noise to find where real advantage will be created in the AI era, and the gap between hype and execution is rapidly growing.

This isn’t about chasing a first-mover advantage. We’re not even sure that matters anymore. It’s about understanding which business models can actually scale, and which ones are set to fail.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes

 * Why Wall Street no longer trusts five-year cash flows in IT Services.
 * Why extraordinary people don’t scale and what replaces that model.
 * First mover versus fast followers, and where the real advantage is created.
 * How hyperscalers are positioning themselves as the new advisors
 * The parade of pretenders, and what it signals about market transitions
 * Where the next generation of services winners will come from

Guest Snapshot

Malcom Frank is a longtime technology services leader, advisor, and board member with more than three decades of experience helping services firms scale through major market transitions. He has held senior leadership roles at firms like TalentGenius and Cognizant.

Explore More 

Malcom Frank on LinkedIn:   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbjZPQkRGUEoweUxwOVB5a2lPS2ZETXI2NUwwUXxBQ3Jtc0tsdjBqWDNKWm9LTFgyaG5QQnFQdHpnR3JvM1hzWGtpaTR5aldhZjdtTEgxTnlYaElkdDkySXdLaGF5N2pFc19hRkdFRlVybnhnQzZXZUd0SkRia095WkxiWktpbFlYQzhlVlhHT0lySkNRby1tazhTcw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fbriansolis%2F&v=lkBRJtWX-Tg]https://www.linkedin.com/in/malcolm-frank-92028/
Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
More from HFS: https://www.hfsresearch.com [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbEFxU3pwVGY1dkJoTjJpaFVDZlRwV0JISXp5Z3xBQ3Jtc0trNzExNTRlU2dGMmRMejZ1RlNpVkJMM1BJYWxIbTg3NVBPM2M2V0oxTEMySGZVOEYyam1wSjJJaVZiLTB5TnlXMVJhVUNCRXlpempfTFZqQW9lM0IxTnZrMU5nMkg0bFVvLUFqLXV4aVFQQ0Nmc2k3UQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hfsresearch.com%2F&v=lkBRJtWX-Tg]
More from From the Horse's Mouth: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/

AI Pretenders, platforms and scaling extraordinary talent: Phil Fersht with Malcom Frank

There will be AI winners and AI losers. There will be no middle ground.

In this candid and wide-ranging episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Tiger Tyagarajan to unpack why 2025 was the beginning of the services industry finally moving beyond AI talk to AI action.

If you’re an AI ‘fast follower’, this is one you don’t want to miss.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * Why 2025 was the beginning of a great separation between AI winners and losers
 * Why process debt is one of the top blockers to enterprise success
 * Why the fast-follower approach doesn’t work in the AI world
 * The end of “mess for less” and what replaces it
 * Why culture is the competitive advantage today
 * What leadership looks like once AI slices through layers of management
 * How AI is enabling smaller, faster, founder-led enterprises

Guest Snapshots

Tiger Tyagarajan is a global business leader, best known for his 13-year stint as the CEO of Genpact, where he helped the company evolve from its 2005 GE spinout into one of the top IT and Business services players today. Since stepping down as CEO, Tiger keeps himself busy advising global enterprises, private equity firms, and venture investors on all things AI adoption and transformation. He does this through advisory roles at BCG, Bain Capital, Brighton Park Capital, and many others.

Timestamps

0:00 – Welcome and intro to Tiger Tyagarajan
0:26 – Tiger’s career journey and advisory roles
2:26 – Genpact’s evolution and the problem of process debt
3:31 – 2025 outlook: AI winners vs. losers  
5:39 – Why there’s no “fast follower” strategy in AI
6:44 – What Tiger sees at BCG and global markets
7:08 – Middle East leapfrogging with AI investment  
9:01 – Competing as a smaller, nimbler firm
10:08 – Headcount reduction and the next service disruption
11:21 – Culture as the #1 differentiator in AI
12:14 – Faster, iterative transformation cycles
13:08 – The new operating model: people, agents, and AI budgets    
14:30 – Emerging challengers vs. Wall Street incumbents
15:03 – Why services are becoming a dirty word    
16:07 – Cannibalizing revenue to scale IP and margins    
17:35 – New job roles and changing talent models    
18:32 – The future of work: AI + human skills    
21:01 – How GenAI reshapes management work    
22:28 – Leadership in the AI era: trust and adoption    
24:09 – AI exploits, humans explore    
25:21 – McKinsey layoffs: reality vs. messaging    
28:18 – Big firms shrink, SMBs grow    
28:59 – Capital-light business models at a global scale    
31:45 – 2026 as the “year of how.”    
32:13 – Winning in the last mile    
33:22 – Final thoughts and wrap-up

Explore More

 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipfersht
 * HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
 * Tiger Tyagarajan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tigertyagarajan/?originalSubdomain=pt

From process debt to AI divide: Phil Fersht in conversation with Tiger Tyagarajan

Agentic AI. Culture wars. Rewiring leadership. In this electric conversation, Phil Fersht, CEO of HFS Research, sits down with Karthik Krishnamurthy, CEO of Ascendion, to explore why the future of work isn’t just being automated, it’s being reimagined.

From building trust in AI-powered enterprises to rethinking capital allocation and redefining what it means to be a services firm, this episode dives into the seismic shifts shaping the next decade. Is your company stuck in a legacy mindset, or ready to embrace Services-as-Software?

This one’s for the bold.

What You’ll Hear in 30 Minutes

 * Why 2025 was the year of Agentic at work, but not at scale
 * The real reason people embrace AI in their personal lives but not at work
 * Why medium-sized companies are driving the most disruption
 * How trust, not tools, is the missing ingredient in enterprise AI
 * The myth of “digital transformation” and what needs to happen next
 * What Services-as-Software really means—and why it’s already here
 * Why investors need a new playbook for the platform era
 * The talent profiles needed to win the next decade

Guest Snapshots

Karthik Krishnamurthy is the CEO of Ascendion, where he’s pioneering the transformation of traditional IT services into platforms and products designed to deliver meaningful business outcomes. A veteran of the services space, KK’s leadership is rooted in redefining how technology connects to enterprise value, and why trust is now the currency of transformation.

Timestamps
00:00 – Welcome and setting the stage for 2025
01:45 – The year of agentic AI at work
04:45 – Personal vs professional AI adoption
06:30 – The leadership trust gap
10:20 – Why mid-sized firms have an edge
13:00 – The fear of change in enterprises
16:00 – The reality of job elimination vs cyclical layoffs
18:20 – Why this industry is about to explode
20:00 – Services firms as last-mile tech partners
22:40 – Breaking the revenue–people linearity
24:00 – What needs to change: leadership, IP, and culture
26:00 – Platforms over PowerPoints: the trust imperative
29:20 – Redefining the services firm
32:00 – The investor POV: Outcomes vs headcount
35:00 – Talent that gets their hands dirty
39:30 – Storytelling as a core capability
41:00 – Smashing the silos, building alignment
43:00 – Rethinking capital allocation
46:00 – R&D and the reinvention imperative
48:00 – Final thoughts: Change is here. Get on board.

Explore More

 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipfersht
 * HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
 * Karthik Krishnamurthy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karthikkrishnamurthy
 * Ascendion Website: https://ascendion.com/

The birth of Services-as-Software:  Phil Fersht and Karthik Krishnamurthy usher in the new era of the workplace

What happens when a Gen Z podcast host from New York City goes head-to-head with a seasoned analyst on AI, economic angst, and the generational wealth gap?

In this episode of The Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht sits down with Ed Elson, the Gen Z co-host of the Prof G Markets podcast with Scott Galloway. Ed brings his sharp, fast-talking take on why Gen Z feels economically betrayed, why AI is fueling more layoffs than we think, and why America is facing a generational reckoning.

This is not your average macroeconomic chat, expect rants, facts, and fire. From sky-high college costs and housing absurdity to the real reason Gen Z isn’t having kids. Ed and Phil go all in on the emotional and economic realities of a generation trying to survive the age of AI and market chaos.

What You’ll Hear in 30 Minutes

 * Why Gen Z is worse off than their parents and pissed about it
 * The AI lie: It’s not co-piloting, it’s replacing
 * Why entry-level jobs are vanishing and who’s to blame
 * The illusion of opportunity in a private AI economy
 * Why Google might win the long game, and OpenAI may implode
 * How New York became unaffordable for all but the 1%
 * Why the AI stock narrative is at a breaking point

Guest Snapshots

Ed Elson is a business writer, analyst, and co-host of the Prof G Markets podcast with Scott Galloway. He is also host of the First Time Founders podcast. In 2024 he won the Webby honoree award for “Best Co-Host” and won the Webby Award for “Best Business Podcast” in 2025. His podcast has consistently ranked number one in Business in the U.S. His work has been featured in multiple New York Times bestsellers, including The Algebra of Wealth, Adrift, and Siege. He has appeared on various news outlets, including MSNBC and Financial Times. In 2021 he was the commencement speaker for Princeton University, where he graduated summa cum laude with a degree in Classics.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome and Intro: Meet Ed Elson
01:42 – Gen Z in NYC: Privilege vs. Reality
04:45 – The K-Shaped Economy: Winners and Left Behind
07:10 – Housing and College: Gen Z’s Cost Crisis
09:50 – Parents Paying the Bills: Dependency Metrics
11:30 – AI and the Disappearing Entry-Level Job
15:00 – Who Owns the AI Revolution (Hint: Not You)
19:30 – OpenAI’s “Code Red” vs Google’s Quiet Comeback
25:00 – AI Market Whiplash: Bubbles, Circular Deals, and Hype Fatigue
27:30 – From Exuberance to Sobriety: The New AI Narrative
33:00 – Why Google’s Under-the-Radar Assets Matter
34:45 – Wrap-Up: See Ed at the HFS Summit in NYC

Explore More 

 * Prof G Markets Podcast: https://profgmedia.com/podcasts/
 * Ed Elson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-elson-314283158/ 
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/ 
 * HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com/ 
 * The Horse’s Mouth Podcast Series: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/

Boomers, Bailouts, and Bubble Trouble: Phil Pods with Prof G’s Ed Elson

What happens when America’s bluntest business voice meets its sharpest industry analyst? 

In this unfiltered and high-voltage conversation, HFS CEO Phil Fersht sits down with NYU Professor, best-selling author, and media provocateur Scott Galloway (aka Prof G). Together, they pull no punches unpacking the anxiety and opportunity in today’s America—from broken capitalism and boomer-fueled burnout to the tech monopolies shaping our mental health and democracy. 

Scott dishes out straight talk on generational rage, the illusion of innovation, and why young Americans are rightly pissed. But he’s not all gloom—he’s got a battle plan to rebuild the country through real reform, national service, and making masculinity cool again. 

This one isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s for those who want to understand where America is heading—and how to help steer it. 

What You’ll Hear in 30 Minutes 

 * Why young people feel cheated—and what’s fueling their disillusionment 
 * Scott’s take on Big Tech’s grip on democracy and mental health 
 * Why national service and shared sacrifice might save the country 
 * How business leaders must adapt to a broken trust economy 
 * Phil and Scott’s honest dialogue on capitalism, masculinity, and what comes next 

Guest Snapshots

Scott Galloway, also known as Prof G, is a professor at NYU’s Stern School of Business, serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, podcast host, and fierce advocate for economic reform. Known for his razor-sharp commentary on tech, business, and society, he’s built a loyal following of professionals seeking unfiltered insight and big-picture truth. He’s the author of Adrift, The Four, and The Algebra of Happiness, and regularly challenges the status quo across media and academia. 

Timestamps 

00:00 – Intro and Welcome
01:15 – Why young Americans are mad (and should be)
03:40 – The rise of rage in Gen Z and millennials
07:20 – Tech’s failure to fix what matters
10:35 – Why the American Dream feels dead (and how to revive it)
13:50 – National service, masculinity, and purpose
17:15 – Can capitalism be reformed or is it broken?
20:05 – What the US election might mean for the future
23:10 – The Boomer problem and building generational empathy
26:30 – Realistic hope: what we can do next 

Explore More 

 * Scott Galloway on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/profgalloway/ 
 * The Prof G Pod: https://profgmedia.com/podcast/ 
 * The Prof G Website: https://profgmedia.com/ 
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philfersht/ 
 * More from HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com

Phil Meets Prof G: Rage, Reform, and Reclaiming America

As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility.

The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy.

The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.

HFS Research

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