In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht speaks with Rohan Narayana Murty, Founder & CEO of Workfabric AI, Harvard computer science PhD, former MIT postdoc, and only the second computer scientist after Marvin Minsky to be elected to the Harvard Society of Fellows, about why context, not model power, is the real frontier of enterprise AI.  

Rohan explains why office and knowledge work can now be studied scientifically through what he calls human attention data. By understanding what people focus on as they work, organizations can build a "work graph" that captures how work really gets done.  

Phil and Rohan discuss why AI agents need the unique context of every organization, how breaking down silos reveals new opportunities and risks, and how digital twins could transform the way employees collaborate across teams.  

The conversation also explores how AI will reshape enterprise structures, why culture matters as much as technology, and why services firms should focus on context engineering to stay competitive. They discuss how smaller, AI-native firms could challenge incumbents and why traditional billable-hour models may become increasingly difficult to sustain.  

They close by exploring what true AGI would require, why humans will continue teaching machines for years to come, and a timeless lesson from Rohan's father on why services businesses continue to matter, even in the age of AI.  

Essential viewing for CEOs, technology and services leaders, founders, and anyone interested in context engineering, AI agents, digital twins, and the future of knowledge work.  

Chapters 

00:00 – Intro: Meet Rohan Narayana Murty
01:34 – From Academia to AI Entrepreneurship
03:08 – Rethinking Human-Machine Work
03:46 – Studying Knowledge Work with AI
06:22 – Work Graphs & Human Attention Data
08:33 – Why AI Agents Need Context
09:18 – The Context Engineering Challenge
11:34 – Breaking Enterprise Silos
13:29 – How Human Attention Data Works
15:13 – Privacy, Consent & Incentives
15:31 – Digital Twins Explained
17:33 – Phil's Digital Twin Example
19:05 – AI That Writes in Your Voice
20:39 – Inside the Work Graph
23:28 – The Future of Enterprise Work
24:30 – Where Enterprise Context Lives
26:55 – AI Culture Over Technology
29:36 – Managing for Outcomes
31:15 – Why Context Engineering Matters
33:55 – AI-Native Services Models
34:41 – The Rise of Specialized AI Firms
35:43 – The End of Billable Hours?
38:43 – Why Services Still Matter
39:01 – A Timeless Lesson on Services
42:07 – Is Context the Key to AGI?  

Learn more & connect 

 * HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com
 * The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht
 * Rohan Narayana Murty on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohanmurty

From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.  

#AI #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #DigitalTwins #ContextEngineering #AIagents #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

Phil pods with Rohan Narayana Murty, Founder and CEO, Workfabric AI: Why your AI fails without context, the work graph & the rise of digital twins

In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, Bloomberg contributor, and author of Exponential, for a candid conversation about where AI really stands inside the enterprise.

Azeem explains why he believes there is no imminent AI bubble, pointing to enterprise investment, customer spending, and revenue growth as signs of sustained momentum. Together, Phil and Azeem discuss the growing AI velocity gap between individuals and enterprises, why legacy systems and leadership remain major barriers to adoption, and how AI agents, forward-deployed engineers, and organizational agility are reshaping competitive advantage.

They also explore China’s AI progress, enterprise trust in AI, workforce reskilling, and why speed of execution, rather than technology alone, will define tomorrow’s market leaders.

This episode is essential viewing for business leaders, technology executives, consultants, investors, and anyone looking to understand the real impact of AI on enterprise transformation and the future of work.

Chapters   00:00 – Introduction   01:23 – AI in the enterprise today   04:24 – Is there really an AI bubble?   08:47 – The AI velocity gap   14:13 – Culture, talent, and AI adoption   21:21 – Building competitive advantage with AI   30:30 – Lessons from China’s AI ecosystem   37:15 – Why enterprise trust in AI matters   44:05 – The future of work and productivity   52:55 – Closing thoughts

Learn more & connect

 * HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com [https://www.hfsresearch.com/]
 * The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com [https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/]
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht
 * Azeem Azhar’s Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.com   [https://www.exponentialview.com/]

About From the Horse’s Mouth

From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.

#AI #ArtificialIntelligence #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #AzeemAzhar #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

Phil pods with Exponential View Founder Azeem Azhar: There is no AI bubble: The enterprise velocity gap & China's efficiency moat

In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Balkrishan “BK” Kalra, President and CEO of Genpact, for a candid conversation on why most enterprises are still chasing AI returns on broken foundations, and what it actually takes to unlock value at scale.  

BK argues there is no artificial intelligence without process intelligence. Drawing on Genpact’s roots in running mission-critical operations at GE, the birthplace of Lean and Six Sigma, he makes the case that the fundamentals have never changed: until enterprises do the foundational work in data, process, technology, and talent, the ROI on AI simply won't materialize. 

At the heart of the conversation is the concept of enterprise debt. Technology debt, BK says, is only the tip of the iceberg — the real drag lies in the hidden process, data, and talent debt beneath the surface. Phil and BK unpack the HFS–Genpact research showing aspirations are high while readiness is low, why only 6% of enterprises have meaningfully acted despite widespread awareness, and why the challenge now is less about awareness and more about leadership courage, ownership, and execution speed.  

They also dig into the staggering $18 trillion in recoverable enterprise value tied to debt remediation, and why AI transformation and enterprise debt remediation are really the same program — a holistic, CEO-level agenda rather than a CIO/CTO technology project. BK explains why the payoff is a factor change, not just incremental improvement, why the gains compound over three to six years of disciplined execution, and why active, high-frequency governance is what separates enterprises that execute from those that remain stalled.  

Finally, BK shares how this is reshaping Genpact itself: the “five billion dollar startup” mindset, the Yin-and-Yang leadership blend of deep-domain veterans and tech natives, and the bold workforce bet that within three to four years there will be only two kinds of people at Genpact —AI builders and AI practitioners — with nearly 10,000 builders and 20,000 practitioners already earned, with zero whitewashing allowed.  

Essential viewing for CEOs, CFOs, COOs, heads of supply chain, services, and outsourcing leaders, and anyone serious about turning AI ambition into measurable enterprise value.

Learn More & Connect 

 * HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com  [https://www.hfsresearch.com/]
 * The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com  [https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/]
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht  [https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht]
 * BK Kalra on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/balkrishan-kalra

About From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht.  

#AI #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #Genpact #AgenticAI #BKKalra #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

Phil pods with Genpact CEO Balkrishan "BK" Kalra: The $18 trillion reason your AI isn't working

The man who co-founded Cognizant and scaled it from a startup to 280,000 people, $16B in revenue, and ~$40B in market cap has a blunt message for the IT services industry: the scarcity-era playbook is finished. 

In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Frank D’Souza, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Recognize and author of the new white paper The Great Decoupling, for a candid debate on how AI is rewriting the economics of services.

They unpack “the great paradox”: code has never been more valuable, yet the cost of producing it is collapsing toward zero. Frank explains why the industry’s habit of pricing the input (billable hours, utilization, headcount) instead of the output is the real threat — and why the firms that survive will sell certainty and outcomes, not tires and spark plugs. 

This is a no-nonsense conversation about the AI reckoning facing IT services, consulting, and digital transformation — and a roadmap for the leaders willing to drop revenue before they grow it.  

Chapters 

00:00 – Meet Frank D’Souza: from Cognizant to Recognize
01:43 – The 3 things that built Cognizant into a $16B giant
03:27 – The innovator’s dilemma: why incumbents get disrupted
04:41 – The great paradox: code priceless AND worthless
07:45 – Selling the experience, not the inputs
09:46 – Why talent — not tech — is the real bottleneck
12:13 – The J-Curve danger: how to spot a firm on the wrong side
14:19 – Wall Street, Jevons’ paradox & people-heavy businesses
17:08 – The “first mile and last mile” services opportunity
20:15 – OpenAI & Anthropic services deals: threat or gift?
22:46 – Mass retraining, young talent & “artificial wisdom”
25:21 – From the pyramid to the diamond: the new talent geometry
30:26 – A NASSCOM-style industry-wide apprenticeship?
32:10 – Building culture from the bottom up
34:49 – Do we need better leaders in services?
36:03 – Big vs. small: who wins the AI transition?
39:46 – The Syclum story: managing through war and the J-Curve
43:24 – “Outcome density”: what we’ll talk about in 2 years
45:10 – The coming wave of chaotic consolidation & M&A  

Explore More 

 * HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com/  [https://www.hfsresearch.com/]
 * The Podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/  [https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/]
 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/ 
 * Frank’s white paper, The Great Decoupling: https://recognize.com/the-great-decoupling/
 * Frank D’Souza on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/franciscodsouza 

About From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht.  

#AI #ITServices #GenerativeAI #FutureOfWork #DigitalTransformation #Consulting #leadershiptips

Phil pods with Cognizant Co-Founder Frank D'Souza: Why AI is breaking the IT services industry 

Phil Fersht asked Accenture's Manish Sharma a blunt question: is enterprise reinvention genuinely a different operating model, or is it just transformation 2.0 with a bigger budget 

Manish's answer is one of the most candid conversations on the subject we've recorded this year. 

In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht and Accenture's Chief Strategy and Services Officer Manish Sharma cut through the noise on what enterprise reinvention actually requires. 

They debate the line between transformation programs that end and reinvention capabilities that compound. They name the five things every enterprise has to unblock for AI to deliver any measurable value: process, data, digital core, operating model, and talent. They walk through what the human-and-AI workforce actually looks like inside a services firm at Accenture's scale, including a concrete before-and-after example of how a mid-career Delivery Lead's day has shifted in the last 12 months. And they pressure-test the dominant narrative that AI is a productivity story, arguing the real prize is revenue and growth, but only for the enterprises willing to redeploy the capacity AI frees up. 

If you're running an AI program, sitting on a board reviewing one, or trying to figure out why your last five pilots stalled, this is the conversation to listen to. 

Connect with Phil on LinkedIn: Phil Fersht | LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/]
Learn more about HFS Research: About us - HFS Research [https://www.hfsresearch.com/about/]

Phil pods with Accenture’s Chief Strategy and Services Officer Manish Sharma: Same movie, bigger budget? Pressure-testing Accenture's reinvention bet

In this episode, Phil Fersht is joined by members of the HFS Global Advisory Board to explore why AI has reached a critical inflection point for enterprises. The panel features Malcolm Frank, Steven Hill, Mark Hodges, Cliff Justice, Mary Lacity, and Jesus Mantas, bringing together decades of leadership experience across consulting, academia, and global enterprises.

Together, they discuss the growing gap between AI experimentation and real execution, and why trust, leadership conviction, and organizational design are now the biggest barriers to scaling AI. While individuals are rapidly adopting AI in their daily work, enterprises remain slowed by process debt, siloed structures, and fear-driven decision-making.

The discussion also examines how AI is reshaping services, workforce models, and business outcomes, and why success will depend less on technology and more on culture, accountability, and the willingness to redesign how work gets done.

To watch the full webinar, visit here: https://www.hfsresearch.com/webinar/ai-at-a-crossroads-the-state-of-the-industry-on-trust-leadership-and-execution/

What you’ll hear
• Why enterprises are struggling to move from AI experimentation to execution
• The AI velocity gap between individuals and organizations
• How trust, fear, and leadership behavior are slowing adoption
• Why process debt is a bigger barrier than data or technology
• The shift from effort-based services to outcome-driven models
• How AI is reshaping workforce structures and middle management

Key takeaways
• AI challenges are more about people, culture, and leadership than technology
• Trust in AI remains a major barrier, especially at senior leadership levels
• Process ownership and accountability are critical to unlocking value
• Enterprises must redesign workflows, not just layer AI onto existing systems
• Services firms must move toward outcome-based models to remain relevant
• Organizations that act with speed and conviction will outpace competitors

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and panel overview
00:20 Meet the HFS Global Advisory Board
02:20 The AI velocity gap in enterprises
04:17 Why adoption is slowing inside organizations
05:02 Trust vs capability in AI adoption
06:41 Lack of strategy and enterprise readiness
07:59 Building trust and securing AI systems
09:07 Process debt as the biggest barrier
10:40 Leadership, culture, and change management
12:46 Overcoming fear and driving adoption
14:42 The shift to services as software
16:48 Industry disruption and business model change
18:28 The future of services and global impact
21:09 Key takeaways from the panel
24:50 Closing remarks

AI at a crossroads: The state of the industry on trust, leadership, and execution

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Cathy Hackl, the tech futurist widely known as the “Godmother of the Metaverse”. Together, they explore the failings of the metaverse, the wider emerging tech space, and what comes next for AI.

Cathy makes clear that the future of AI isn’t defined by language alone. Looking beyond LLMs, it will have a much bigger impact in the physical world. That’s why Phil and Cathy discussed world models, spatial intelligence, and even why Claude can’t come to your house and change your lightbulb… Yet!

They delve into the shifts we’re seeing as a result of AI, including the reality of AI-driven layoffs and how societies will have to shift when AI is embedded in everything we do.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * What really happened to the metaverse, and which parts survived
 * Why the future of AI extends beyond language models into the physical world
 * How world models and spatial intelligence are reshaping the next wave of innovation
 * Why enterprises are struggling to scale AI despite widespread adoption
 * The growing tension between AI-driven efficiency and workforce stability

Guest Snapshot

Cathy Hackl is a tech futurist, investor, and gaming executive, and a leading voice on spatial computing and the future of the internet. She has worked with global brands including Nike, Ralph Lauren, and Louis Vuitton, currently holding a role with Nokia, and is an active member of the World Economic Forum.

Explore More

Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
Cathy Hackl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyhackl/

Beyond LLMs into the physical world: Phil Fersht with Cathy Hackl

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Julie Sweet, Chair and CEO of Accenture, to discuss what leadership looks like when macro volatility collides with technology advancement. In particular, they explored why cost cutting alone won’t drive enterprise growth.

As organizations race to scale AI, Julie made one thing very clear: ‘You do not cut your way to growth”. The conversation pushes beyond experimentation into accountability, how enterprises scale adoption across the enterprise, and the importance of nurturing the next generation of talent.

This episode tackles the real questions facing enterprise leaders: How do you drive growth, protect talent pipelines, and reinvent yourself at scale? And how do they do it all at once?

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * Why “you do not cut your way to growth” in the AI era
 * What it means to commit AI initiatives to the P&L
 * The core differences between proof-of-concepts and enterprise scale
 * Why volatility is forcing significant reinvention
 * How AI is reshaping entry level jobs, and why preserving them matters

Guest Snapshot

Julie Sweet is the Chair and CEO of Accenture, responsible for 800,000 employees across approximately 120 different countries. After 15 years at the firm, she became the CEO in 2019 and has guided them through a global pandemic and the rapid advancement of AI.

Explore More

Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/
Julie Sweet on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-sweet/

You can’t cut yourself to growth: Phil Fersht with Julie Sweet

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Mohamad Ali, Head of IBM Consulting. They delved into what happens when one of the largest services organizations begins operating more like a software firm in the AI era.

The conversation covered everything from how digital workers are reshaping delivery models, to the reimagination of margin structures and how value is defined. As enterprises demand more for less, Phil and Mohamad dig into IBM Consulting’s big bets and what the next phase of technology means for the industry.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes:

 * Why the consulting and software worlds are colliding
 * How enterprise expectations are changing
 * The growth of human and digital offerings.
 * Whether AI driven efficiency shrinks margins or grows them
 * What “trillions of agents” means for the modern enterprise
 * Why leaders who stutter will fall behind in the AI era.

Guest Snapshot

Mohamad Ali leads IBM Consulting, overseeing the entire global services organization that generates over $20 billion in annual revenue. He spent almost 14 years at IBM between 1996 and 2009, before embarking on an career that saw him serve as the CEO at two different companies, before ultimately returning to help lead IBM’s enterprise AI play in 2023.

Explore More

Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/

HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/

Mohamad Ali on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alimohamad/

Inventing the agentic enterprise playbook at IBM: Phil Fersht with Mohamad Ali  

In the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Richard Seroter, Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud. They discuss the latest developments with enterprise AI and why its impact feels different to every technology wave before it.

The conversation looks deeper than flashy press releases and hype to explore how AI is reshaping behaviours, decision-making and enterprise risk. It covers everything from the shift in how people search and interact with technology to the growing tension between speed, trust, and scale.

Phil and Richard delve into whether advantage comes from moving first with AI, what separates experimentation from transformation, and why AI adoption will be defined by outcomes.

What you’ll hear in 30 minutes

 * Why Google’s move into the enterprise collided with the AI explosion
 * How ChatGPT changed consumer expectations, and what it revealed about how humans want to interact
 * First movers versus fast followers, and why second mover advantage matters more
 * Why Services-as-Software is growing, and what it signals about the industry’s future

Guest Snapshot

Richard Seroter is the Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud, where he works across enterprises, developers, and leaders to drive outcomes with emerging technologies. Richard previously held roles at firms like VMWare, Microsoft, and Accenture.

Explore More

 * Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbXVOeEVzeWE1Y1VPLTJ4MzRkYmgwbG5YeVhuQXxBQ3Jtc0tsRnFMNjV1Z2hybDFiTUNxSUR2a0NScmIteHFvajJ4bWtpVm5OMTVSMUpnQjdPTHAyQU9DeEFNNzFIaWhsZENUUVFTU2luYUIyODIydUZVOUVYa2ZEOVowSnVNa1lBZVJIT25GVWVHbm5KeG9KNHp3Zw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fphilipfersht&v=d_Q7GhFLnxk]https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/
 * HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbFRaRlpROUtuM3ZIUHZzT1hPbGdHVHJ4eHVJd3xBQ3Jtc0ttXzBhalJaejlLUVhMeWFaNHRTOS1QZ0dwS01JMFBXSEF6U2RzNi1mUXJTUDZ5cFBrUVRwMWpjSm4wcFBmQUtPdVZuN2x2LVVNMmVGdmtqN1VGOXZDLWpobF9pZ09YT3VsTXNIY2ptaUV1VlZXaFZldw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hfsresearch.com%2F&v=d_Q7GhFLnxk]
 * Richard Seroter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seroter/

The new enterprise stack and Google's AI play: Phil Fersht with Richard Seroter

As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility.

The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy.

The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.

HFS Research

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