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Keeping Grassroots Races Alive with John Yelland
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Just under a year after our first conversation, race director John Yelland returns to the UKRunChat Podcast to talk about the realities of organising grassroots events and why community matters more than ever.
John is the founder of Mad Hatter Sports Events in Cornwall and creator of the unique Hourglass Race, a "front yard ultra" where runners tackle two-mile laps against a steadily shrinking time limit.
In this episode we discuss the challenges facing race organisers, from rising costs and late entries to volunteer recruitment and social media marketing. We also explore what makes grassroots events special, why runners continue to return to Hourglass, and what participants can do to support the races they love.
In this episode:
- How the last year has been for Mad Hatter Sports Events
- Why grassroots races are facing increasing challenges
- The impact of late race entries on organisers
- The difficulty of promoting events through social media
- Why creating an atmosphere matters as much as the race itself
- The importance of volunteers and community support
- How Hourglass differs from a traditional Backyard Ultra
- Common mistakes first-time Hourglass runners make
- The strategies that seem to work best in the race
- Why some ultra runners are intimidated by the format
- What runners can do to help keep local races alive
About Hourglass
Hourglass is a unique endurance challenge held at the Royal Cornwall Showground. Runners complete two-mile laps, starting with a 30-minute time limit. Each lap reduces by one minute until participants can no longer complete the distance within the allotted time.
The event takes place on 27 July and is organised by Mad Hatter Sports Events.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to John Yelland & The Hourglass Race
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. Just under a year ago, we spoke to race director John Yelland about one of the most unusual endurance events in the UK, the Hourglass Race. It's a front yard ultra where runners tackle two mile laps against a steadily shrinking time limit. Now, last year, John shared how the event was created.
00:00:23
UKRunChat
and why more than half of the participants end up running further than they've ever run before, and what he'd learned from moving from being a runner to a race organiser. So we've got John back today because we're just in the lead up to the event again, which is on the 27th of June this year. So we're catching up with and what's going on, what all the race organisation looks like, and to find out a bit more about Hourglass Race, and maybe we can get one of you along. John, welcome back to the podcast.
00:00:51
John Yelland
Hi, thanks for having me.
00:00:52
UKRunChat
Yeah, so last time we spoke, you'd just run the race. It was kind of August time, wasn't it? So we're we're in the build-up now to this year's race.
00:00:58
John Yelland
Yeah. Yes.
00:01:00
UKRunChat
So how's how's the last year been for you?
00:01:04
John Yelland
Well, actually quite tough. um We've had some issues in the last year, but we always do. um Yeah, I won't into it too much, but we had a van that we bought that broke down, but that doesn't really help us out very much as an event organiser. But yeah, we're everything's kicked off. We've had two events this year already now, so we're in that we're we're right in the middle of event organising season. We've got a race this weekend as well, so it's all gone a bit, it's all gone very mental.
00:01:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, busy time of year. So your your your race company is Mad Hatter Sports Events. So you started off with swim run events, didn't you really?
00:01:37
John Yelland
Actually,
00:01:40
UKRunChat
You're based down in Cornwall.
00:01:42
John Yelland
we started with swimming only um and then we moved into swim run.
00:01:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:01:46
John Yelland
So we've we've currently got the longest running swim run in the UK. um And we do a combination of things, but we do we have got two, actually three, just purely running events, Hourgrass being one.
00:02:00
John Yelland
We've got a new
Transition to Running Events & Trail Highlights
00:02:01
John Yelland
one this year, which is a 12 kilometer trail run. And we've got another one which is a 15 kilometre trail run around a disused clay pit in Cornwall. Cornwall's quite famous for the China clay pits. um Most of it's private land, you're not allowed on it. But we've got special permission to run an aquathlon in the pit.
00:02:17
John Yelland
So it's a three kilometre swim, 15 kilometre run, but you can do either either bit solo. So yeah, so but Hourglass our pure run and event.
00:02:27
UKRunChat
Yeah, so why why did you make the transition into running events?
00:02:32
John Yelland
Well, We wanted, well, so Hourglass was something different. So there's ah there's a huge amount running events in Cornwall. You could literally do two events every weekend.
00:02:43
John Yelland
um And we we tried to stay away from running events, ah but Hourglass was something different. The Cowlainite, which is the 15 kilometer trail run, it's the trail run. The the main event is the Aquathlon.
00:03:00
John Yelland
But we do allow people to do the run solo just because we can get more people there, hopefully. And people can go and run in a beautiful place. And the trail run is ah is probably a
Creating a Unique Event Atmosphere
00:03:11
John Yelland
one-off this year.
00:03:12
John Yelland
There's normally a race in that weekend that's been cancelled. So we thought we'd try and plug that gap and have a little bit of fun. the race is The race itself is called the PMT. the Port Melon Trail, so it's just a bit of fun. It's a beautiful route that we've had in mind for ages, but we've tried to stay away from it, but as there's a gap, we thought we'd shove it in for one year only and see how it goes.
00:03:34
UKRunChat
Yeah, well, hopefully entries are going well for you. What's what's the kind of running scene looking like at the moment? Are people wanting to enter races? Is it going well?
00:03:41
John Yelland
think, yeah, so down here, there's, people are entering races, but there's just so many races that everything's kind of diluted. so instead of having, you know, two two events on a weekend, a Friday, a Saturday and a Sunday, and having larger numbers, there's a lot of events going with smaller numbers.
00:03:52
UKRunChat
Right.
00:04:01
John Yelland
um So yeah, it's it's challenging. You've got to try and be unique and special and create, I mean, Madhat Sports for Us when we started, it's just me now, but us when we started was all about creating an atmosphere, an event, you know, everything that goes with that rather than just sometimes you turn up to event and you get the same medal, you come over the finish line and somebody goes, well, well done.
00:04:25
John Yelland
It's all about trying to create that atmosphere and that fun. Everybody that does a Mad Hatter event gets a high five, which is playing have it with my shoulder. I need to stand on the other side now and do left-handed high fives. But yeah, so it's all about, you know, we try to create an atmosphere and an event rather than just a race.
00:04:45
John Yelland
But that's quite difficult. That energy level is is difficult to maintain.
00:04:50
UKRunChat
Yeah, it takes a lot of a lot of work and commitment from you as well as race director, doesn't it?
00:04:53
John Yelland
Yeah. I try to, it's almost impossible, but I try to get to know as many people i as I can that are doing the race. So you make people feel special. You know, i I do a little bit of social media stalking, um not in a bad way, but I try to look up who people are.
00:05:13
John Yelland
And that's nice when people are coming over the finish like line, you go, oh, here's Michelle, she's just done, you know, 100 mile ultra two weeks ago, she's here today doing this. And that just makes people feel that little bit special. And that comes from having done Ironman.
00:05:27
John Yelland
You know, you come over the line and there's a announcer, Paul Kay, and he just goes, John, you are an Ironman. And you go, i want to do it all again, just so you could say that to me again. so we're trying to create that kind of atmosphere, but.
00:05:40
UKRunChat
Yeah, that was nice. I did an Ironman event, the only only the run event in Bolton at the weekend. And it it is nice when they shout your name as you're crossing over the line.
00:05:47
John Yelland
Yeah, it just makes you feel...
00:05:48
UKRunChat
You do feel so special, don't you? And it's so lovely.
00:05:51
John Yelland
I had the worst 13 hours of my life when I did Ironman and I'd come over with the finish line and he said that and I was just like, I want to go and do it again.
00:05:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:57
John Yelland
yeah Now, just he can say my name, it's A's. Yeah.
00:06:03
UKRunChat
Yeah,
00:06:03
John Yelland
So
Challenges in Event Promotion & Marketing
00:06:04
John Yelland
it is...
00:06:04
UKRunChat
you talked a lot about the community last time we spoke, didn't you?
00:06:07
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:06:07
UKRunChat
think, yeah, that's really, really important to you.
00:06:09
John Yelland
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. i mean, we want to make people feel like It's not just coming and doing whatever it is, a 10K swim or 5K swim or whatever it might be.
00:06:22
John Yelland
It's, you know, hang around and cheer everybody through and just socialise with everybody and create that little bit of an atmosphere. On our swim run events, we always invite everybody but not that many people actually turn up, but we invite everybody for food in the evening. We book a restaurant and we go and have food and We always ah ah do a social swim on the morning after the race where people, if they haven't had too much chafing, can come and have a little bit of social swim with us and stuff because we're swimming anyway. So just invite everybody along. I don't know many race organisers that would.
00:06:54
John Yelland
and I think running is slightly different because, you know, if you've run however far you run, you don't really want to get up and run the next morning. You might be a bit sore, but swimming is little bit different. I think we can we can do that.
00:07:04
John Yelland
But yeah, it's all about that for us.
00:07:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's nice. do you get a lot of local people doing your events or do people travel from far and wide?
00:07:13
John Yelland
ah So it's kind of a mix. I would say it's probably 60% local, 40% out of county. But, I mean, we had a swim run a couple of weeks back. and We had people from the Lake District, Yorkshire, um come down and do it we've had We have had people fly into the UK to do our events from Germany and from America. So, yeah, it's it's it's quite...
00:07:42
John Yelland
well spread. Yeah.
00:07:43
UKRunChat
Yeah, ah that's it that's incredible actually.
00:07:44
John Yelland
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:46
UKRunChat
So how do people find out your events? Because last time we spoke, you were saying it was it was difficult to kind of get round like the Facebook algorithms, for example, because everyone like finds out about stuff like this on social media, don't they?
00:07:58
UKRunChat
And I remember you telling me a story about a lady who you'd met at a swimmering event and she hadn't heard of your one, but she lived 10 miles away.
00:07:58
John Yelland
yeah
00:08:01
John Yelland
oh yeah
00:08:07
John Yelland
yeah yeah
00:08:07
UKRunChat
So how how how do you kind of, as a race director, kind of get this out to people?
00:08:13
John Yelland
with incredible difficulty it's proven to get harder and harder i think um using social media for stuff you can use all the paid ads and things but i mean we haven't invested a huge amount in that but i don't i haven't really seen a massive benefit from that you get a bit of few more likes or a few more clicks on your website but doesn't necessarily translate into uh into entries i mean Trying say hourglass is a challenge in itself because of the type of race is.
00:08:46
John Yelland
But i will I will comment on people's posts. on You have to be interactive with people on social media. It's not just a case of putting a picture up and going, oh, this is happening.
00:08:57
John Yelland
yeah You've got to comment on people's races that they've done and go, oh, that'd be good training for hourglass or yeah things like this. And they go, yeah even though people follow us, they go, what's hourglass?
00:09:03
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah
00:09:07
John Yelland
If you follow us, why don't you know? But it's hard. you know People don't necessarily sit on social media all day and it's got to get to the right people.
00:09:18
John Yelland
And if you don't look at it it, with social media being so big, if you don't look at it within the 10, 15 minutes after it's posted, it's gone. It is tough.
00:09:25
UKRunChat
it's tough, isn't it?
00:09:27
John Yelland
Yeah, it is tough. So it is spending that time being interactive with people and talking to people on social media, which is, which is when you're when you've got a full-time day job as well, quite challenging.
00:09:40
UKRunChat
Yes, I can imagine. Yeah.
00:09:42
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:09:42
UKRunChat
I mean, yeah, it's tough. I mean, grassroots races, they are my kind of favourite type of race to do because like you say, people know you, they're part of the community, but it is hard to put yourself out there, isn't it?
00:09:49
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:09:52
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:09:57
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:57
John Yelland
Well, we've just had um Helen Webster from 220 Tri Magazine come and do one of our races a few weeks back, and she's trying to push local grassroots races, because in triathlon and multi-sport, everybody's like,
00:10:11
John Yelland
I want to go and do an Ironman. That's my goal. But there's so many other events out there that can help you build into that.
00:10:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:10:18
John Yelland
You know, and there's successful brilliant local races, grassroots races that are far, well, not better, but just just enjoyable in a different way to like the big Ironman events and things like that.
00:10:31
UKRunChat
Yeah. And
Understanding the Hourglass Race Format
00:10:32
UKRunChat
it's knowing where to find them though, isn't it?
00:10:33
John Yelland
Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:33
UKRunChat
Like, like as, as a runner, I'm often like, well, where where do I look to find these events? It's hard. There's no kind of central.
00:10:40
John Yelland
There's no central place is there. there's There's a couple of websites that have tried it in the past.
00:10:41
UKRunChat
No.
00:10:43
John Yelland
We were part of one um in the past, but they seem to have disappeared. there's this There's another website which tries to sell your events for you and take a commission, but we've tried that in the past to build numbers and had like one entry.
00:11:00
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:00
John Yelland
One ent entry is better than no entries, but
00:11:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:03
John Yelland
You know, it's is really difficult. It is really difficult. i mean, you can send the emails out to all your competitors and stuff, but yeah they probably get bombarded by everybody. So we don't really do that. We should probably do more of that to be fair. But yeah, it's it's tough. It's tough.
00:11:20
UKRunChat
Yeah. Have you noticed runners behaving differently when it comes to entering races?
00:11:21
John Yelland
Last minute.
00:11:24
UKRunChat
Like, are they, are they leaving it till more last minute?
00:11:25
John Yelland
and it
00:11:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:27
John Yelland
Yeah, last minute. So we've got a race this weekend, which is a swim event. And this is a particularly challenging swim event. So people are... It's notorious. It's one of the toughest, one of the toughest open-walk swims in the UK.
00:11:40
John Yelland
Because it's two kilometres straight out to sea. There's quite bit current and swell. So it's a tough old race. And people have literally left it to the last minute to wait and see what the conditions are going to be like, what the weather's going to be like.
00:11:53
John Yelland
Is it actually going to be on? So yeah, in the last week I've had a flurry of entries for that, which is which is great. But when you when you order medals based on a perceived number, if you got 100 people entered three months ago, you go, well, I'm not going to get more than 120, 130.
00:12:10
John Yelland
hundred and twenty hundred and thirty And then when or 40 people enter at the last week, you're kind of a little bit stuck. Yeah.
00:12:19
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's tough. So you have to really kind of know how many you're going to sell so that you can pre-order the medal.
00:12:23
John Yelland
Yeah. And we always end up we always end up with leftover.
00:12:28
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:28
John Yelland
we've I've got a garage full of medals and swim hats and t-shirts. You just think, what do what what do I do with them?
00:12:36
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:37
John Yelland
And that's that's all money.
00:12:37
UKRunChat
but
00:12:39
John Yelland
i mean, maybe maybe other race organizers are better plan better at planning and organizing than me. That's probably the case. But it is difficult because what we've decided to do this year is only because we always had merchandise on on sale at the events.
00:12:53
John Yelland
But... you end up with t-shirts left over. So we're just literally ordering in what people have pre-ordered now.
00:13:00
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:00
John Yelland
But then people turn up on the day and go, can I buy a t-shirt? Well, you should have ordered one.
00:13:06
UKRunChat
No.
00:13:06
John Yelland
It's so tough.
00:13:07
UKRunChat
isn't it yeah
00:13:08
John Yelland
Yeah. I've just, I've put in an order for medals and we try to do locally sourced medals ah by local artists and we try to use all that kind of stuff.
00:13:21
John Yelland
We famously did medals a few years ago for a swim event from Joe Downs Glass. don't know if you've ever heard of Joe Downs. Very well known artist down this way, but they cost an absolute arm and a leg.
00:13:35
John Yelland
um But it they're spectacular. all anybody ever talks about. They're spectacular. So we try and use that, but that's expensive in a lot of cases. and challenging your mean Christmas time me and my wife go around sort Christmas fairs and things like that we're looking what could make a nice medal for particular events and yeah I think my wife loves it because she loves Christmas fairs but I hate it
00:14:01
UKRunChat
you're getting ideas. That's brilliant.
00:14:02
John Yelland
yeah yeah so we've got a company that making the tro trophies for our medals for hourglass this year um and they It's been designed by a local lady. She's she's designed the the thing but it's all handmade hourglass medals.
00:14:21
John Yelland
I did find something the other day in a shop. It's a bit cheeky but I said to my wife these would make great. They're the Hermani Granger Time Turner necklace and I was like that would make an amazing medal for hourglass.
00:14:31
UKRunChat
Oh yeah. Oh wow. Yeah.
00:14:36
UKRunChat
It would.
00:14:36
John Yelland
But um my oldest son who works for us sunday the Sunday events went, you can't use that, Dad. You'll get told off by all the brothers or whoever.
00:14:43
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. They would, wouldn't they?
00:14:44
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:14:45
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:46
John Yelland
The way my luck's going, yes, I would. Other people would get away with it, but I would be told off. I seem to i seem to have no luck at the moment.
00:14:56
UKRunChat
So tell us about Hourglass the race itself then. So how long it been going first of all?
00:15:01
John Yelland
This would be the... Fifth year, I think.
00:15:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:06
John Yelland
Yeah, fifth year. Wow, that's gone quick.
00:15:09
UKRunChat
Yeah. And it kind of turns it turns the Backyard Ultra on its head a bit, doesn't it?
00:15:09
John Yelland
Yeah, so it's it's...
00:15:14
UKRunChat
We're all familiar with Backyard Ultra.
00:15:16
John Yelland
Yeah, so Backyard Ultra is, what is was it, 4.1 miles or something? Or something like that, isn't it?
00:15:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:21
John Yelland
And you run on the hour every hour. um And I think we discussed this before, but i'll go through it again. ah We did not want to be there for days. That's that's the...
00:15:32
John Yelland
I couldn't think of anything worse if i'm honest. So we decided to have a two mile loop and it's you start with 30 minutes for two miles. So 15 minute mile pace, which my dad's 83. He could do a couple of laps walking. In fact, my stepfather in law is 77.
00:15:50
John Yelland
he's done five laps, so 10 miles before he timed out. So, the so yeah, it is possible to build up a reasonable distance for almost anybody. of So, yeah, so but every lap reduces by a minute.
00:16:05
John Yelland
So after the 30 minutes, you can't go early. Somebody asked me, can we bank laps, bank time? was like, oh my God, no. No, that would just be too complex to organise. So after the first lap is finished, we say, we count down the end of the first lap, and that's also the countdown to the start of the next lap.
00:16:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:23
John Yelland
And then it's 29 minutes and so on and so forth till people can't can't go any further.
00:16:27
UKRunChat
Wow. So what's the furthest anybody's ever got then?
00:16:30
John Yelland
the mail record currently is
00:16:35
John Yelland
36 miles at 18 laps.
00:16:36
UKRunChat
Yeah. Wow.
00:16:38
John Yelland
That's six and a half minute mile pace after 34 miles.
00:16:43
UKRunChat
Yeah. That's some going, isn't it?
00:16:44
John Yelland
It's pretty impressive, yeah. I know I've talked to people about this all the time. yeah how How far could people go? what's the What is the...
00:16:52
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:54
John Yelland
If you had whoever, the guy that just broke the world record for the marathon, if he rocked up, not that he is, but you don't know. If he did, how far would he get? At what pace is he? I don't think there's much more than two or three laps, even humanly possible after after what we've currently got.
00:17:15
UKRunChat
yeah it
00:17:15
John Yelland
That's the male record, and the female record is 32 miles.
00:17:19
UKRunChat
yeah that's brilliant what's the average then what do most people tend to finish on
00:17:23
John Yelland
it It varies, but I would say it's kind of in the 20s. The majority
Race Strategies & Participant Experiences
00:17:30
John Yelland
of people reach a marathon. So yeah. And then it starts to very quickly get, get tough and people drop out and then you'll, but the nice, the really nice thing is for the people that have run, they're there to watch those guys really push themselves.
00:17:41
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:48
John Yelland
They've had their fun. They've, they've gone as far as they can. They've challenged themselves. And then they watch the guys that, that really give it some beans. And last year we had a girl, a local girl that came along and she equaled the course record.
00:18:02
John Yelland
And, um, There's a 200 pound cash bonus for anybody does break the course record, if it's male or female. um And she set off for the course record lap, but to break the record, she'd have to come in in time and she didn't, which I was very relieved about.
00:18:17
John Yelland
But yeah, I mean, we did give her a bit of a price for actually going for that lap, but she didn't actually officially break. Because it's one of the tough things about Hourglass is that you might run 30 miles, but you only get timed in on 28.
00:18:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:33
John Yelland
Because that last lap, even though you're trying really hard, doesn't count unless you get in in time.
00:18:38
UKRunChat
No, no, that's tough. You've got to constantly be, it's the opposite of a backyard really, isn't it? It's not how long you can go for it because you can you can kind of take the backyard loop slowly, can't you?
00:18:45
John Yelland
Yeah. And I think...
00:18:49
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:50
UKRunChat
But that you're constantly having to get faster.
00:18:51
John Yelland
but team Faster.
00:18:53
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:53
John Yelland
And but that's what people, I think, are really, really worried about. It's, I'm going to have to run really fast.
00:18:56
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:59
John Yelland
I'm going to have to run six-minute mile pace. And actually... No, you're not. Very few people are going to get to that pace. In fact, no one's got to that pace yet, I don't think. um yeah But it's it's it's a challenge for you against the clock.
00:19:14
John Yelland
And it's a great... I mean, I've tried to get charities involved because it would be a great thing for charities. Sponsor me per lap, you know.
00:19:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:21
John Yelland
But that's been a challenge. But for the majority of the race, it's a fun run. People are running in a group. this This year we've got slightly bigger numbers.
00:19:33
John Yelland
So we've got 50, 60 people running as a fun run for the first because there's no point in running fast early on. It's about strategy. you know how How do you stay fit, healthy, retain energy, stay loose?
00:19:49
John Yelland
it's It's that kind of thing rather than yeah going out from the start 100 miles an hour. There's a couple of guys that have done it before and they've they've taken the first few laps easy and then at mile 10 for example they'll have a and almost a flying lap, they'll open their legs out.
00:20:05
John Yelland
I just don't see the benefit of that to be honest but they obviously do so yeah maybe yeah.
00:20:10
UKRunChat
Yeah, they want a longer recovery, perhaps, because it's a short recovery as well, isn't it, really? Yeah.
00:20:16
John Yelland
Yeah, so it's how you recover from those early laps. We've seen quite a few different strategies over the years now. um But the one that seems to work, probably shouldn't say this, but the one that seems to work is just in time.
00:20:30
John Yelland
You know, come in with about 90 seconds to go, have a wee, something to eat, drink, change a t-shirt if you've got a bit hot and sweaty so you've got something dry on and then off you go again.
00:20:44
John Yelland
The first year we did it, a friend of mine started off in wellies and a puffer jacket and he was trying to wind his wife up by coming in just in time so that she was stressing about him getting in in time. And he couldn't change his shoes in time and he was like worried about starting the next lap.
00:20:59
John Yelland
yeah And actually last year, one of the the guy that won it nearly didn't finish because he was coming towards the finish and he thought, I've got ages yet. And he heard me come over the microphone and go you've got 10 seconds at the start of that. So he had to sprint to get in in time.
00:21:14
UKRunChat
Oh, wow.
00:21:15
John Yelland
He completely lost his track of time, what lap he was on and how how fast he had to run and how long he had to run that lap.
00:21:17
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:22
John Yelland
So it's
Event Logistics & Cornwall's Unique Setting
00:21:23
John Yelland
it's really, but it's interesting. It really is interesting because as the as the race goes on and you because less people ah running, you've got to be aware of what's going on around you. i think we said about it last time. Because when it gets down to it, if there's only three male or female races left, then you've got to be aware. Because if none of you make that time limit for that lap, it's the first one over the line. So it becomes a race to the line on that lap.
00:21:51
John Yelland
And people still don't quite understand some of it. There's a young chap last year did really well and he thought if he won the last lap and everybody else timed out on the next lap, he would win. But it doesn't.
00:22:03
John Yelland
So if he wins the last lap and on the next lap, everybody times out is the person who comes out the line first on that lap that wins.
00:22:09
UKRunChat
Right. Okay.
00:22:11
John Yelland
But I think it's it's really funny because people, know, we've got a lot of ultra running community down here. You know, we had the classic quarter yesterday.
00:22:21
UKRunChat
Oh, the weather was awful for it, wasn't it? Yeah.
00:22:22
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. or Or great for some people. Yeah, I can't think of anything worse, but yeah.
00:22:29
UKRunChat
yeah
00:22:29
John Yelland
Yeah, I was out running in a wetsuit training for something, so it was actually quite nice. But yeah, we've got these guys that all run hundreds of miles and yeah all that, but they're terrified of hourglass.
00:22:43
John Yelland
it's It's a real challenge. I think it's more of a mental challenge for them. I don't understand it. I don't want to run fast. But I think people have just got to see it as a completely different type of challenge and just come and see how far you can go.
00:22:56
UKRunChat
Yeah. so So what would you recommend then for somebody who's never done anything like this before? I don't few people will have because it's such a unique event. So what tips would you give to a first timer? Like what what mistakes do people normally make that they should avoid?
00:23:10
John Yelland
Well, like I said earlier on, it's it's about making sure you know what lap you're on and how long you've got to do that lap. Quite a few people have been um caught out, almost caught out.
00:23:21
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:22
John Yelland
um And why other ones? So going off too hard, definitely. Yeah, we had a chap a few years ago who did every lap at seven and a half minute mile pace and had long breaks.
00:23:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:34
John Yelland
And he went out lap mile 32.
00:23:36
John Yelland
But I think he could have gone further if it maybe, saved himself earlier on.
00:23:42
John Yelland
Always having dry stuff is is always a good one. and and But it's learning your nutrition, when can you take it, because you've got, early on, you you've got yeah potentially 10 minutes before the next lap.
00:23:59
John Yelland
um to to get food and stuff in. So it's it's making sure that you you you've trained and you've you've understood when you can take it and how how long you've got in between each lap.
00:24:12
John Yelland
Yeah, I think those are the kind of things. My son's doing it this year, which will be interesting.
00:24:16
UKRunChat
Is that his first time?
00:24:17
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:18
UKRunChat
Oh,
00:24:19
John Yelland
Yeah, he's very competitive, but doesn't actually do a lot of running. So that'll be interesting.
00:24:25
UKRunChat
it'll be good for him, something completely different. What's the actual course like? Wonderful.
00:24:31
John Yelland
So it's about 70% tarmac. There's a little trail section. um but it's It changed from the original course. The original course was was a little bit flatter. It's not massively hilly.
00:24:46
John Yelland
I think there's like 20 milliliters of elevation across the course. But as you per lap, you know you're kind of racking that elevation up as you go. um The first year we had to do it, it was during Covid, so they had the Covid centre there, so we had to change the course quite quickly.
00:25:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:04
John Yelland
um But yeah, it's it's about 70% tarmac, 30% hard packed trail, open trail, it's like a farm lane. But yeah, it's quite a bit of, depending on which way the wind's going as well.
00:25:18
John Yelland
If it's if it's windy, you get a nice tailwind or headwind, depending on which it's going.
00:25:22
UKRunChat
Yeah. And is it the sort of event you just come down for the day or do you would you make like a full weekend of it?
00:25:28
John Yelland
but always but If you come into Cornwall always make a weekend of it or a week.
00:25:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:32
John Yelland
um But yeah, I mean, it's we've got someone coming down this time who's going to camp the night before in ah in a lay-by just up the road and do the race and then go home again. So, you know, you could do whatever. it's It's such a beautiful part of the world that you if you come in down you should probably stay and see ah to some of the sights.
00:25:53
John Yelland
You've got Padstow just down the road.
00:25:53
UKRunChat
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:25:54
John Yelland
So yeah, it's it's nice and... And it's such a big area that we do it in the Royal Cornwall Showground. So it's such a big open area. No cars up there, or very rarely. Every once in a while, some random spectator drives in the wrong entrance.
00:26:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:26:09
John Yelland
Even though there's signs everywhere, but you always get some, don't you? um
Community Support & Volunteer Importance
00:26:14
John Yelland
That was funny, i was it Plymouth Half Marathon a few years ago? Someone we decided to drive out their house.
00:26:20
John Yelland
and they were in blocking the road, all the runners were running around the car and stuff.
00:26:23
UKRunChat
Oh, no.
00:26:25
John Yelland
yet that's and That's one of the, I think the event organisers biggest issues is the general public, which we don't have any issues with that hourglass because it's completely closed off.
00:26:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:38
John Yelland
so
00:26:39
UKRunChat
Yeah, perfect. Yeah, well, it sounds a really unique event. So just remind us when and where it is and how people can register.
00:26:46
John Yelland
So it's at the Royal Cornwall Showground on Sunday the 27th of June. I don't remember what month I'm in. Yeah, and Sunday the 27th of July, Royal Cornwall Showground in Weybridge.
00:27:01
John Yelland
um You can enter on the website. That's madhattasportsevents.co.uk. um If you've got any questions, ping us a message on social media.
00:27:14
John Yelland
um Travel, I mean that you can get the train to St. Austal and then find a way to get into Weybridge. But you can fly, also fly into Newquay, so you're in Manchester aren't you?
00:27:26
John Yelland
You can fly to Newquay quite cheap.
00:27:26
UKRunChat
Yes. Yeah.
00:27:30
John Yelland
and Hint, hint.
00:27:34
John Yelland
But I would say, you know, if you if you are on a runner and you're unsure, come along and watch. come along and cheer people around for an hour. it's Once it gets to the the business end, if you like, without wanting to sound like yeah competitive race organiser, once it gets to that end where you you're down to the last 10 runners, it is quite intense.
00:28:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, I guess it gets pretty excited, doesn't it?
00:28:03
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:28:04
UKRunChat
Kind of willing them across that line in time.
00:28:06
John Yelland
Well, from the organizer perspective, i'm I'm on the mic normally, and I'm counting down people.
00:28:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:12
John Yelland
And the first few laps, you're like, right, guys, we've got 10 minutes to the start of the next lap. And they just sort of amble There's a little brow of a hill, and they just amble over the hill, walk down to the finish line and come and get their food.
00:28:26
John Yelland
And then later on, it's like, right, we've got five minutes to the start of the next lap. they start jogging in. And later on it's, right, we've got 10 seconds and you can't see anybody. And then they just come over line. And I genuinely love it. It's my favorite event. I absolutely love it because we also drive around as people are running with a cameraman and a videographer who who video it. But we'll we'll drive along, we'll be chatting to people as they're running and playing music for them. And it's just, I'm a big kid really. So it's just me messing about and playing for the day, which is which is great.
00:29:04
John Yelland
But yeah, i' definite definitely recommend everybody just give it a go once. And most of the people we've got come back again. So there must be something good about it.
00:29:12
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, it does sound brilliant. ah Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us again, John. It's it's always so it' nice to chat to you and I really hope that the race does well this year.
00:29:17
John Yelland
time.
00:29:22
UKRunChat
and What can runners do to to support races they love? Any any kind of pleas from you as a race organiser?
00:29:30
John Yelland
Well, the ultimate one is enter. And enter early.
00:29:33
UKRunChat
Early, yes.
00:29:34
John Yelland
and but I mean, it's the other one is if you can't, if you can't actually do it or something help out Marshall.
00:29:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:42
John Yelland
i mean, we're we're really, really lucky with our marshals. We've got some great people that have done events. So the swim runs are really difficult to Marshall because some of the entry and exit points are a bit extreme in some claim some places. So you just want people that know what they're doing and have been in those situations yourself so helping out race race event organisers and don't complain about stuff
00:30:13
John Yelland
we try our best to put on an event and you get 100-200 people racing 40 kilometres along the coast or whatever it might be and someone goes oh they'll complain about getting lost somewhere and you go oh okay great
00:30:30
John Yelland
Yeah, just don't complain. Just enjoy what you do. Go and have fun. Race hard, play hard and just just enjoy it.
Future Aspirations for Mad Hatter Sports Events
00:30:38
UKRunChat
Yeah. I love that. and it's clear that you love what you do as well, and that you're really passionate about it.
00:30:42
John Yelland
If I could find a job that would pay me permanently to do this, I would be in my element.
00:30:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:48
John Yelland
I wouldn't have to have a day job then. That would be my goal. That was the goal originally. But yeah, we need UTMB or someone to come and buy our races and then we can be part of that.
00:30:57
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:59
John Yelland
But that's never going happen.
00:31:01
UKRunChat
Yeah. That's, that's the dream, isn't it? The ultimate dream.
00:31:03
John Yelland
Here's the dream, yeah. yeah Ironman could come and organise our swim runs, buy our swim runs or something. Yeah. I think part of the challenge where we are is that we're so far away from people.
00:31:14
John Yelland
you know, there are races around London or Midlands, people are there. Whereas I think because of where we are, toyed with the idea of opening up Hourglass somewhere else. And we had a chap who was interested in organising one in Manchester.
00:31:29
UKRunChat
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:31:30
John Yelland
But yeah, that's gone very quiet. So yeah, I've often thought about, well, say hi, we've often thought about branching out into different areas of the country.
00:31:42
John Yelland
But We have the community down here to support us for marshals, water support, things like that. And it's moving around and doing things, I don't know how other event organizers do it.
00:31:52
UKRunChat
No, no.
00:31:54
John Yelland
It's really tough. Whereas I trust all the people that I've got down here and not that I know them, so I trust them. It's when you go to somewhere else and you don't know who people are and what their backgrounds are. And yeah, it's always challenging to put on events where you don't live, I think.
00:32:10
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's whether you can rely on people, isn't it, to really show up and help.
00:32:12
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:32:15
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:15
John Yelland
Yeah, because we always do that. weve we we I organise the marshals and everything, so I always have an extra couple. And they go and then then on the day, everybody turns up, because you normally get couple text you the morning and go, sorry, can't make it.
00:32:29
John Yelland
It's always the way. They're volunteers. They're not paid, so can't really blame them. Yeah. So you always have a couple of standings hanging around.
00:32:40
John Yelland
But then they're standing there going, what do you want us to do, John? And I'm I'll find you a job in a minute. Just bear with me.
00:32:45
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:47
John Yelland
And then they go home going, I didn't do anything. But they have done something. They've been there just in case. That's challenge, more surely.
00:32:54
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:57
John Yelland
as' the challenge marialfully
00:32:59
UKRunChat
Yeah. We'll watch the space and you never know, hourglass might expand. But at the moment it's in Cornwall on the 27th of June and entries are open on the Manpather Sports website.
00:33:06
John Yelland
Yep.
00:33:11
UKRunChat
So thank you very much, John. Thank you for listening to the UK Run Chat podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe and share it with your running friends and make sure you go and have a look at the race online.
00:33:22
UKRunChat
Until next time, happy running.