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E065: Amber Hagerman
1.4k Plays5 years ago
The memory of Amber Hagerman has saved so many lives since the AMBER Alert system was put into place, but 25 years is a long time for a family to wait for answers. On the 25th anniversary of Amber’s death, could we finally repay her for all the lives she saved by bringing her case to a close?
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Transcript
Starting a Podcast with Buzzsprout
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuth Hounds, have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own? Whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are?
00:00:19
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space, and each other, we knew that this was the way to go.
00:00:37
Speaker
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00:00:58
Speaker
So, what are you waiting for? Fulfill that dream of yours and start today.
'If I Die Young' and True Crime Discussion
00:01:03
Speaker
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00:01:28
Speaker
Now it's time for the world to hear what you have to say. I was listening to the radio recently on a trip home to see my family and the song If I Die Young by the band Perry came over the speakers in my car and inspired me to feature this story on coffee and cases this week. A piece of the lyrics from that song reads a penny for my thoughts oh no I sell them for a dollar there was so much more after I'm a goner
00:01:54
Speaker
And maybe then you'll hear the words I've been singing. Funny when you're dead, how people start listening.
00:02:00
Speaker
And it is strange that sometimes the biggest difference someone makes in this world is after they're dead. It seems like only then do people start to notice the hole that was left behind.
Amber Hagerman's Abduction
00:02:10
Speaker
Sometimes the impact we feel when someone passes away is only within our immediate family. We struggle to go about the day. We struggle with activities as we try to adjust to a new type of life. We search for things to fill a void in their hearts.
00:02:24
Speaker
Sometimes the impact reaches our community. I remember when I was in high school, a boy in my community died in an ATV accident.
00:02:32
Speaker
Our gymnasium was used for his funeral and on the day of his burial, there wasn't an empty seat in our 2,450 person capacity gym. But rarely do we feel an impact nationwide. Sure, several cases we cover get news attention for a few days or weeks, but as sad as it is, the world keeps turning and people move on. But today's case changed the way Americans respond to similar cases. If you could save 924 children,
00:03:02
Speaker
Would you do it? No matter the sacrifice, would you make it? I think initially we're all quick to say yes, but when saying yes means you sacrifice your own daughter, would your answer change? In today's story, one mother lost her daughter, but her daughter's abduction has saved countless others through the formation of the Amber Alert system. She told local news station, quote, it saved children's lives. It's helped to bring children back to mommy and daddy.
00:03:31
Speaker
It's another legacy for my daughter that she didn't die in vain. She is still taking care of our little children like she did when she was here." This is the story of Amber Hagerman.
00:04:18
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Alison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:04:28
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the case will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page.
00:04:44
Speaker
Coffee in Cases podcast and to follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee in Cases podcast. Because as these families know, conversation helps to keep their missing family member in the public consciousness, helping to keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:05:07
Speaker
Allison and I have mentioned before that we have pages of cases that we eventually want to cover. And recently, Allison has posted on some social media platforms and some Facebook groups. And we have even more cases that we are adding to that list. Several hundred more. So we're prepared for quite a while. Yeah, we get the opportunity to cover these cases and that that's what makes us happy.
00:05:33
Speaker
But sometimes a case that isn't on any list that we have pops up and we feel like we have to cover it. And that was what led me to Amber's case. I actually was just scrolling through the news not long ago when her case came
The Day of the Disappearance
00:05:47
Speaker
up. And it's actually been unsolved for 25 years. And my hope is that by sharing her story, we can bring Amber the peace that she deserves after all of this time.
00:05:56
Speaker
Unlike Kentucky winters where we feel like breaking out our shorts and sandals if the thermometer reaches like 45 degrees Fahrenheit, Amber was from Arlington, Texas where winters are normally milder than what we see here. So when nine-year-old Amber, her five-year-old brother Ricky, and their mom Donna decided to visit her grandparents Glenda and Jimmy on a warm January 12th day, it was no surprise that the two children wanted to ride their bicycles.
00:06:25
Speaker
That seems crazy, right? That warm January 12th day. Yeah. We're supposed to get like Arctic chill here in the next week. So Donna, though, had grown up in that neighborhood and had obviously rode her bike up and down the streets of that subdivision. So she agrees to let the kids go for a ride, but only on one condition. They were to ride only around the grandparents block.
00:06:56
Speaker
No further. And I get this. I mean, I rode my bicycle all the time from my parents' house to the beginning of our neighborhood, or as we would like to say in Eastern Kentucky, to the mouth of the holler. So I too would have let my kids just ride around like my old stomping ground.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's same. Like with my bike, my mom would be like, okay, you can go this far. And I, you know, we're rule followers. We talk about it all the time. So, you know, we did what we were supposed to do. Yeah. And I can remember there were also times that my mom would be like, you can just ride to the crossing, which is like just to my aunt's house. And I did that, but Alison, Amber and Ricky did not listen to their mom.
00:07:43
Speaker
They went past their one block radius to an abandoned Winn-Dixie grocery store. Now, to their defense, it was just two blocks away from their grandparents' house. So it's not like they went like half a mile. It was just barely outside of what they were allowed to do.
00:08:06
Speaker
Okay, true. That is true. And to be honest, it would be hard to be a kid and not go to this store parking lot to ride your bicycle. It was, as I said, abandoned. So the old unloading dock made the perfect bicycle ramp. And it was a popular spot for kids riding their bikes around town. And again, this was 25 years ago. So I know we say this a lot, but it was a different time.
00:08:34
Speaker
the end and it is now. Right. I mean, this is what kids, yeah, this is what kids are doing. And you're right. I mean, that would be fun. And if you knew other kids were going to be down there, then you'd be like, okay, well, you know, surely they won't get mad. It's just slightly further. Plus that's where all the kids are. Yeah. And me, I would be like, like, how's she going to know? Like, I know she's not going to be looking out the window to see me past the house. Like, how's she going to know if I go any further?
00:09:02
Speaker
True. So I'm positive, like I said, that Amber and Ricky thought nothing about going the extra block and I can hear them justifying it. Like, what's one more block? Like, everybody will be there. We have to go. But after the kids ride their bikes for just a bit, Ricky's conscience actually gets the best of him and he turns around and heads back home.
00:09:22
Speaker
Oh no, without
Witness and Police Response
00:09:23
Speaker
Amber? Yes, because now this is like around three o'clock in the afternoon. And from what I've read, Amber was like, you know, just your average, every day, nine year old kid, she loved to play. She loved to be with friends and she had a lot of friends. So I'm assuming that if there were other kids there, she would have just told her brother to go on home.
00:09:44
Speaker
that she wanted to play but she does stay and she tells Ricky she wants to ride her bicycle just a little bit longer and that he can go on home and he does. Okay so I mean I guess that does make sense and especially since she's the older child he would have probably just listened to his big sister
00:10:07
Speaker
So I get it. Yeah. Cause she is, you know, four years older than him, which this next part I was kind of surprised about. And, but again, like I keep trying to think back, like this was another time period. So maybe at that time.
00:10:21
Speaker
This wouldn't have been so different, but Ricky arrives home because remember, he gets there quickly. It's only like two blocks away from his grandparents' house where they've been playing. But when he walks into their house and there's no Amber, his mother, of course, is curious. And little Ricky couldn't stand a lie to his mom. And so when she asked where Amber was, he told her the truth, that Amber was two blocks away riding her bike in the Winn-Dixie parking lot.
00:10:49
Speaker
his sweet little baby boy telling the truth to mama. I'm so proud. I know and it's cute and he's five so I can just picture like his little face. Which actually this happened in like 1996 so Ricky and I would have been very close to the same age because I would have been. Oh yeah. So
00:11:13
Speaker
Donna, like I said, is mad that Amber had not followed the simple directions that she had given him, or given them. So she sends Ricky back to the Winn-Dixie grocery store to bring Amber home, which I think is kind of like, I don't know, I wouldn't do that now. I don't know if I was a mom then, if I would have, but I would be freaked out for my five-year-old.
00:11:35
Speaker
to go like down the street alone. I mean, I guess partly it depends on the neighborhood too. Just like if the grandparents had lived there and let's say it's mostly elderly couples or something and you know, you know, most of your neighbors, then maybe it wouldn't be, you know, so bad.
00:11:56
Speaker
are so different. Yeah. And I could see like, I feel like your subdivision is a pretty safe neighborhood and my new one is too. But I guess I'm just like such a big warrior. Like I would have a hard time just being like, okay, bye little Ricky. But again,
00:12:11
Speaker
It was different then. So it takes eight minutes. That's all it took for Ricky to quickly pedal back to Winn Dixie grocery store. But when five-year-old Ricky arrived at Winn Dixie, Amber was nowhere to be seen.
00:12:26
Speaker
her bicycle lay on the pavement, but there was no Amber. And despite the fact that Ricky was only five, he knew that something was wrong. Sure, he and Amber had disobeyed their mother by going one block away from their grandparents' home, but there's no way that Amber would have gone any further. And there was definitely no way that Amber would leave her bicycle behind.
00:12:47
Speaker
So Ricky speeds back to his grandparents, which kudos to Ricky because remember he's just five and he is that aware that something is wrong. So he speeds back to his grandparents, Gloria and Jimmy's to let his family know that Amber is missing. Yeah. Cause I mean, I'm sure he was terrified if he got there and there's her bicycle and you know, and his sister's not there. Yeah. And like,
00:13:14
Speaker
I mean, I know that he probably didn't, like I know one's mind, like your first thought does not go to like, you know, abduction or something like that. But I'm sure that he was still, like you said, worried. And so he wanted to let his mom and his grandparents know. And they immediately know that something is very, very wrong. Like this just isn't characteristic of Amber, just to wander off and not tell anyone where she's going. And they actually weren't the only ones
00:13:45
Speaker
that sensed something was wrong. So despite the fact that there were shops nearby, there was actually like a crowded laundry mat. No one at the laundry mat saw what happened to Amber, but one person did and he knew what he saw wasn't okay. And his quick response was why Jimmy was startled to see police at the Winn-Dixie grocery store when he got down there.
00:14:11
Speaker
So the grandfather goes down to the grocery store and there's already police down there because this one person had called? Yeah, so it took, I mean like, it took Jimmy, or not Jimmy, it took the brother Ricky only eight minutes to get back to the parking lot. So I can assume that, I mean it's probably just maybe 20 minutes after
00:14:35
Speaker
Amber has last been seen and police are already at the scene of the crime. We need more good Samaritans like that person. I know. And if he is, so according to an article, police release new photos, seek new info and unsolved 1996 murder of Amber Hagerman. He is the one and only witness and his name was also Jimmy.
00:14:59
Speaker
And he told CBS Dallas Fort Worth about his experience when he was interviewed in 2016 for the 20th anniversary of Amber's abduction. He said, quote, I saw Amber riding up and down. She was by herself. I saw this black pickup. He pulled up, jumped out and grabbed her. When she screamed, I figured the police ought to know. So I called them.
00:15:22
Speaker
Wow. I mean, it's that kind of quick response. It's sad that it didn't end up in obviously a better resolution in this case, but it's that kind of quick thinking and quick response that is so helpful. Like I wonder, and I'll talk about it a little bit further down how Amber's case would have possibly been different if it had happened like
00:15:52
Speaker
You know, 10 years into the future or like, you know, in 1998 instead of 1996, because a lot of things are pushed into place because of Amber's death and her objection. But.
00:16:09
Speaker
The sad thing is Jimmy, the man that called the police, died a few months after his interview in 2016. So like what we have of him and recordings and like his statements to police are all that we have left now because he isn't here to give us any more details.
00:16:28
Speaker
But from the spaces in his fence, he did watch as Amber screamed in protest and she also tried to fight back. He said that she kicked the man as he forced her into the truck.
00:16:41
Speaker
And he was a US Navy veteran and actual former sheriff's deputy. And he, like I said, knew something was wrong. And he was able to describe the man and the car. And he was able to tell the direction the car headed when he pulled out of the parking lot when Jimmy called police. So he gives police a lot of information.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, because again, at first I was like, why didn't he yell out or why didn't he? But then I was thinking, I bet it would take your brain a little while anyway to process what was going on. Because at first, you know, if a truck pulls up by a kid, you're probably thinking, oh, this is a parent or this is whatever. And then even if a kid screams, is it just because the kid doesn't want to go?
00:17:26
Speaker
You know what I mean? And it's like, I said buy it. And I'm sure like all that processing in your head would take time. And probably by the end, like when it did register, he did the only thing that was left for him to do. And that was call 911.
00:17:42
Speaker
And I mean, he wasn't super like young at this time. So if this was a young man, which he describes him as like a white or Hispanic man in his twenties or thirties under six feet tall with a medium build, like.
00:17:58
Speaker
really what's he going to do? Like what could he have done? And I thought the same thing as you, but then I'm thinking like if you're in your fence stand backyard, like are you going to have to run around your house, which by that point they're going to be gone and you don't know which way they've headed. Like that's true. Yeah. So maybe he did what he thought was best in that situation. Or maybe like you said, it just took him a while to process it. But he is able to tell police that the man was in a truck.
00:18:29
Speaker
and that it was a single cap pickup and it was in good condition. It was solid black with no chrome or striping details. So again, so much information to police in that short span of time.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like it being solid black too is something unique because I feel like most trucks do have chrome on them, which you said there's none, or different colored stripes down it, which there's none. Yes, I feel like he was so observant and it's frustrating because we wouldn't be talking about this case if it had been solved.
Media's Role and the Amber Alert System
00:19:10
Speaker
Right. But police tell grandfather Jimmy, when he arrives at Winn-Dixie, the heartbreaking news that they believe Amber has been abducted. And according to true crime files, even though Amber's family members, the members of the community, and authorities searched frantically for Amber, they were unable to locate her in time. And sadly, Alison, Amber was found dead just four days after she went missing. Oh, that is so sad. I know. And I think the way that
00:19:40
Speaker
she was found is even more heartbreaking, which I mean, every case we talk about is heartbreaking because someone loses their life or suffers a traumatic event. But just with kids, it's so different. And with Amber, she was found after midnight behind an apartment complex in an unnamed creek bed just five miles from where she was abducted.
00:20:10
Speaker
She was naked except for a single sock. She had lacerations on her body and her throat had been slit. Oh my gosh. So it's just very brutal. They don't know or they haven't said if Amber was sexually assaulted.
00:20:29
Speaker
A lot of people assumed that she was because she was naked. Right. But authorities have never came out and said that. And I'm sure if you're like me, you're immediately thinking that someone in the apartment complex is behind Amber's death. Because I just feel like that makes the most sense. So she was, you know, if her body was put in the creek behind an apartment complex, like it obviously had to be someone who lives there. I mean, one of the main reasons I would think that is because
00:20:56
Speaker
I'd be afraid if i'm lurking around an apartment complex where there's tons of people that i would be spotted or noticed by somebody if i'm not someone who lives there.
00:21:08
Speaker
Well, and I agree, but most people don't think that her killer lived there because according to all things interesting, there had been hard rains that day and many believe that Amber's body was actually washed to that location during the storms because the water got so high. And maintenance workers have been back there on and off all day and all evening because they were doing work around the complex and none of them reported seeing Amber's body.
00:21:35
Speaker
Right. And that's something obviously you would notice. So that does make sense. I mean, unless they were one of, they were the killer, one of the maintenance workers, which I hadn't thought of. Yeah. But I mean, then you'd got to, you'd have to keep a lot of people quiet because there's multiple maintenance members or maintenance workers. So that's true. True. And as you can imagine,
00:22:01
Speaker
The news absolutely devastated Amber's parents. Several places I read said that her father actually refused to believe that it was true. In fact, according to Body of Kidnapped, Texas Girl Is Found, her father told the scores of reporters that were just outside his door around 2 a.m. the morning Amber's body was found, quote, she's still alive.
00:22:24
Speaker
And according to that same article, the family chaplain arrived to their house shortly after that statement was made. And when he left the home, he told reporters that the family was devastated. That would be hard to accept, I think. Yeah. Agree. And like just to sidetrack a little bit.
00:22:45
Speaker
I just want to say how much this annoys me, not like the chaplain part, but the media part. And I feel like like most things in life, the media is such a like a double edged sword. Most of the time, you know, they play an important role in finding missing people or finding killers or, you know, helping solve crimes, but really,
00:23:05
Speaker
I do think that they can overstep boundaries and we see it all the time. I mean, celebrity families have found out a loved one is dead from a news outlet before the police have even knocked on their door to let them know. And so while I'm thankful that the news helps in these cases, I do wish that like for just a second, they would stop and think like this family's in mourning and I'm here so I can try to get the best story. Like I need to take a step back.
00:23:34
Speaker
and let them mourn the loss of their daughter. They could have talked to police. They could have talked to neighbors. You don't need to be in front of this family's house literally an hour after they found out that their daughter's dead. Right, and then asking them probing questions that would be hurtful to think about years later, let alone right after it happened.
00:24:00
Speaker
So like I mentioned before, there was a laundromat next to the Winn-Dixie back in 1996, but no one came forward with any information from that laundromat, which police account to the 2000 census because they say that just under one fifth of the population of Arlington is Hispanic, and police say that they think people didn't come forward
00:24:30
Speaker
because they had a fear of deportation, which I don't know how accurate that is or how much of that's just speculation. But I mean, I guess that would make sense too if you were in that situation.
00:24:49
Speaker
Another sad thing about Amber's case is that police and authorities are able to determine that Amber was kept alive for at least two days after she was abducted. So she's found four days later that she was at least alive for two days. So that is sad, especially given all the details that they had that in that 48 hours, had they located that truck, they could have found her.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yes, and that makes me, like I said, makes me wonder how Amber's case would have turned out differently if we had had systems like the Amber Alert. And it's because of Amber's case that we had the Amber Alert system. So like, you know, if this had happened to her, which I guess we wouldn't have had the Amber Alert system, but if we had had something in place at that time, like people had so much information, the police did,
00:25:47
Speaker
that I feel like Amber's case could have been different, which makes it even more tragic. Right. Yeah, because now, and it's that double-edged sword of the media, too, because I mean, on the positive side, obviously by reporting on it, they could put it into the news, hey, be on the lookout for a solid black truck with no chrome, no striping.
00:26:12
Speaker
a man that fits this description and things like that, which I'm sure they did back then. But now, even if you don't have the radio tuned in, you're driving down the interstate and you see the sign that says, look for this vehicle with this plate number or whatever. Yeah. And I actually was curious about
00:26:33
Speaker
the Amber Alert system, so I Googled it. And A&E actually gave a lot of details about how the Amber Alert system came to be, you know, kind of how it's implemented, how we use it today, and that kind of stuff. And according to that website, it was actually implemented because parents in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, so where Amber went missing from, were concerned about the well-being of their children. And they were astounded
00:27:02
Speaker
at the poor communication in Amber's case, which we have talked about. And one parent actually called into a local radio station and asked, why if we can broadcast national weather emergencies over a news station, why can we not do the same for missing children? Wonderful question. And that leads to answers when people ask questions.
00:27:30
Speaker
Right. Because if you think about it, like what, and obviously in 1996, we had the technology to let people know when there were going to be flash floods or snow storms or tornadoes over the radio. So why do we not have the ability to do the same for children, which I feel like is even more important than warning people when there's going to be snow. Right.
00:27:57
Speaker
And like we said, like if this had been in place, Amber was alive for two days. Had the public no more, been given more descriptions, could Amber have been saved? And the voices of those concerned citizens were heard because shortly after Amber's death, just nine months, the public got their wish. The Amber or America's missing broadcast emergency response alert system was created.
00:28:21
Speaker
So yeah, it just takes people voicing, like you said, asking the right questions, voicing their opinion to the right people for something important to happen and change to be, you know, a change to occur.
00:28:35
Speaker
And, you know, I just heard I was watching a new story today. It was local. And our local police chief from Lexington, he was talking about like how resolutions get made basically across the aisle, you know, regardless of political party. And, you know, he kind of said, and I thought this was good the way he said it, you know, that change happens when you talk to each other and not at each other.
00:29:04
Speaker
And I feel like there's so much of the blame game, you know, that goes on a lot politically. And so, like, you know, people might say, oh, the media caused this or the police caused this. And, you know, and again, solutions aren't made by
00:29:24
Speaker
You know, those sorts of like yelling arguments they're made when you voice concerns. Right. But then you actually listen to each other and you know, that's what happened here. So that's why I think it's such a good example. Yeah, I agree. I think like you said, it's a lot about.
00:29:42
Speaker
communication both ways. You have to be actively listening to the concerns people have and thankfully the people of the Dallas-Fort Worth area that were in charge of making those types of decisions listen to the concerns of their citizens. And according to A&E, Amber Alerts help obviously help law enforcement agencies and media outlets get the news of kidnappings out almost immediately.
00:30:06
Speaker
And many people believe that Amber Alerts are so successful because they directly involve the community. And because of that, like we feel a sense of responsibility, right? Like when I'm laying in bed at nighttime,
00:30:19
Speaker
And, or even better example, like if we're traveling on vacation or going down the interstate and I get an Amber Alert on my phone, like I'm immediately, every car that we pass, like is this the car, does this car fit the description of this Amber Alert that I just bought? Because I feel like a sense of responsibility for that child. And I think that is part of the reason that Amber Alerts are so successful because we feel that responsibility to save that child.
00:30:49
Speaker
Absolutely. So in the beginning, Amber Alerts went out over the radio, but now they're a broadcast almost everywhere. I mean, we talked about a few and there's like a complete list, which some things surprised me. I didn't know, but now Amber Alerts are of course on the radio, on the internet radio, we get them in text messages. They appear on cable TV. They go to the NOAA weather reporting thing.
00:31:19
Speaker
which I didn't know. I don't know, but I don't really know why, but okay. You can get them through email. Like you mentioned the traffic condition signs that are along major highways and interstates. They appeared through commercials. They pop up on social media like Facebook and Bing and Google also will display Amber alerts when they're sent out. Awesome. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
And like, I didn't know that it was that widespread, but I'm glad that it is because think about how many lives have been saved and you can Google how many kids have been saved through the Amber Alert system and totals vary. But like the one that I mentioned in the intro was 924 kids have been saved since these were. And I'm telling you that question that you asked in the intro, I feel like it was just perfect because
00:32:19
Speaker
You know, you're right. Like if somebody said to you, what would you do to save, you know, 924 children? You'd be like, I do anything, everything, you know, and then, but at what cost? And I do feel like we have to keep that in mind too. Like despite the joy that Amber's parents feel that
00:32:41
Speaker
you know, they've been able through their pain to, to bring reunion and hope to so many families.
New Developments in Amber's Case
00:32:49
Speaker
It doesn't take away their pain. Yeah, exactly. Like, I think it gives them some sense of like justification, you know, that Amber lives through these kids because she essentially saved them. That doesn't replace their child that they lost. Right. And I mean, I'm sure if you ask them,
00:33:12
Speaker
you know, they would do anything to bring Amber back. Absolutely. So, I mean, we talk about that a lot in school, especially when we talk about like the Holocaust, you know, what, what would you do to save people? Like would you put your own family at risk? And for some people they can easily say yes, but for some people they can't and that doesn't make their answer wrong.
00:33:36
Speaker
Right. Amber's case has been called for 25 years and it recently, this January, was the like 25th year for Amber's abduction and murder.
00:33:54
Speaker
But they, police actually made a startling announcement during a news broadcast regarding Amber's case. So according to police release new photos, seek new info and unsolved 1996 murder of Amber Hagerman, authorities have disclosed for the first time ever that they have DNA evidence. So they are relying on new DNA technology, including genetic genealogy.
00:34:24
Speaker
And that, you know, as we know, increasingly helps law enforcement tie open cases that are like this, that are long time, like long old cases. And Arlington investigators find themselves now with a renewed hope that they will be able to finally close out Amber's case. I mean, that's kind of a huge announcement that they have DNA evidence. Yeah, I don't know why they would wait that long. Maybe they were waiting
00:34:52
Speaker
for the time because DNA has advanced. So maybe they were waiting until DNA could use the technology to say anything about it.
00:35:03
Speaker
Right. And you know, speaking of technology and DNA and like the advancements, I just read an article yesterday, super fascinating about how different DNA research laboratories are actually doing some more investigation into potentially being able to use DNA to predict things like hair color, eye color,
00:35:32
Speaker
Like ethnicity, different things like that from the DNA stream. Which is mind-blowing. But I mean, that's what determines your hair color and your, you know, your height and all that. So I mean, maybe we will get that advanced one day.
00:35:48
Speaker
Which would be, yeah, that would be amazing. You have a piece of DNA and have your entire, the entire profile of what this person would look like. Amazing. Exactly. Detective Grant Gildan, who is the lead investigator on this cold case, he declined to tell the Dallas Morning News what physical evidence the department had in the case because he said that that's information only Amber's killer would be aware of. And we know, you know, they keep some information.
00:36:18
Speaker
you know, still private. But that evidence, he said, has been secured and maintained for the past 25 years with the hope that one day we would be advanced enough that this would provide a vital lead for the investigation. And he said in that news conference, quote, on a yearly basis, I talked to all major laboratories around the country to see if they have any new technologies or anything we could possibly be trying with the evidence we have.
00:36:45
Speaker
That is what's led to some new developments where we can try some things this year." End quote. Hmm. That's promising. So hopefully, Amber's case will get answers sooner rather than later. Right. They've actually opened up, because we've talked about this before, I actually think I've talked about it in the last episode that I did. Anytime there's an anniversary of a case or it's featured on the news,
00:37:14
Speaker
More tips come in and so they have actually dedicated a new tip line just for information about Amber's case. The Oak Farms Dairy offers a $10,000 reward for any new information that leads to an arrest.
00:37:31
Speaker
And a sergeant on the case, Ben Lopez, said, quote, all this time, we've only had one witness. That's why we're pleading. If there's anyone out there with this information, even if they think it's just a small bit of information, it may be the lead we need to break this, end quote. And of course, we also say that nearly every outro that we have, like no information too small.
00:37:56
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Yeah. A snippet of conversation, a weird sound, a weird look, somebody acting weird. I mean, any of those things.
00:38:05
Speaker
So if you have any information on Amber's abduction, and again, some sources say January 13th, some sources say January the 12th, but if you have any information around that time period that you think would be vital to Amber's case, please call Arlington detectives at 817-575-8823.
00:38:27
Speaker
Coping with death is hard, especially when you're young. My grandmother passed away when I was in fourth grade and I remember finally understanding that telling her goodbye was permanent as a choir sang at her funeral. I was sitting with my cousins and I remember running to my mom and collapsing on her lap, sobbing as the realization hit me.
00:38:48
Speaker
There was no I'll see you later or talk to you soon left for me to say. The day we buried her, I grew up just a little faster. My grandmother was 80 when she died. She lived a full life and in my childhood mind, I knew that she was old and that old people as blunt and yucky as it may sound, died one day. But one of my friends lost a baby cousin this past year. She was in kindergarten.
00:39:15
Speaker
And her son was in the class with that little girl. And she talked to me about trying to explain death to her five-year-old son. How hard it was to make him understand that no, she wasn't just sleeping. And no, she wasn't going to be able to play with him anymore. The death of an adult is hard. The death of a child is unbearable. My friend's son finally understood as much of his cousin's death as he could when he was told that she was in heaven.
00:39:42
Speaker
according to an article on missingkids.org called Still Searching for Amber's Killer. Only a month after nine-year-old Amber Hagerman was abducted off her pink bicycle and found murdered, her mother Donna went to her daughter's elementary school in Arlington for the dedication of a new playground in Amber's name and to talk to her classmates who didn't understand why she had to die.
00:40:06
Speaker
Her eyes shot to Amber's empty desk in the Amber Museum that Mrs. Walter's third grade class had decorated with pink hearts and ribbons and a large frame class photo of their blue eyed brunette friend. But sensing her pain, as children often do, they instead tried to comfort Amber's mother and would raise their hands and say sweet things like, I always wanted to play with her, or I liked her a lot, or she was really pretty. She was so nice.
00:40:35
Speaker
But then they would shyly ask her about things that they'd been wondering. Like what time did she leave on her bike? One boy asked at three 10 center Saturday afternoon. And she was abducted at three 18. Donna said trying to soften the jarring fact in her gentle motherly voice. It took eight minutes. She said, so you guys stay close to home. Okay.
00:41:00
Speaker
If you have any information about Amber Hagerman, please contact the authorities. As we've said, in case after case this year, this is the year of the slew found, so you know what to do. Again, please like and join us on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and to see images related to this episode.
00:41:18
Speaker
as always follow us on instagram at coffee cases podcast and on tick tock at coffee and cases podcast or you can always email us suggestions to coffee and cases podcast at gmail.com please tell your friends about our podcast so that more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well we hope to hear from you soon stay together stay safe we'll see you next week