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change. But then now it's up to the industry to actually learn from these ideas and adapt them into their production methods. But the ideas itself are not in this pre-stage anymore. They are they are so ah so mature already. um yeah Right. And Claudia, do you have any um thoughts on this idea of scalability and how we take um we we can take these ideas of innovation forward to brands, to customers to be to be used? um So Simon is optimistic and says that they are already past the stage of um of being small scale. Do you agree with that? And do you think that there's still a lot of work to be done? Or or how do you feel about that that question of scaling um these kind of more, what's the word, interesting innovations? um Because I don't think we've seen so much of this yet. It's it's growing, but it's still pretty new, I think, for for brands and consumers. It's funny that you say it, because and first of all, I completely agree with Simon. It's a development that I can see and follow myself for years now, and that we explore at the Munich Fabric Start as well and um yeah really exhibit it there to make it to make it real, to show the industry that there are new perspectives, that are that there are new solutions. So and that is one of our approaches to to educate on that and to provide room to exhibit it and spread the message. and I also feel that these approaches are not only related to the fashion industry, but can cover things like climate change, for example, what we talked about earlier. So one more example, for example, is Pauline van Dongen, also a Dutch material designer. She started as a material designer, but she added solar aspects into her fashion first. And then along the way, she she dived into the solar energy and did entire installation installations with that. So one small idea can not only solve a problem of the fashion industry, but can be widened up because it's a technology. So it can be adapted two for different challenges and problems that we figure. So, um yeah, we do see that development and we do see that mature and status of those kind of projects. And that is where we educate. So there's a million solutions out there. And what we need to do is to implement them into production processes and into into existing structures of companies. And that starts with ah awareness and with acknowledging the need to change and then it it takes some courage and of course some budget to implement it into into current and processing yeah yeah absolutely and um would that be your advice to the people listening um who do want to prepare for um you know the next, let's say, 10, 15 years, especially when it comes to innovation? um yeah What key piece of advice would you give them um and in the context of sustainability, technology and fashion? My first advice would be, and maybe that comes from ah from my German background, and open up and work together. So um here we have to join forces because when we open up with a challenge, with a problem to somebody else and take their advice. And then it leads to maybe the next partner. And so we are trying then to use force ah to to use expertise and also know how that we as a single person don't have. And together we can really change something. Be courageous, do the trial and error, and then move forward. It's only in in these kind of steps that we can achieve the change. Absolutely. And Simon, what about you? What's your piece of advice um for those listening? I think mainly the same as mentioned as as Claudia mentioned. there So invest in people, business and cultures as well. um Celebrate a lot, but maybe use the allegory of training a new muscle group. So you have to first you have to open up, as Claudia mentioned. Then ah you have to explore what muscle group or what kind of training you need as a person or as an industry. And then train your ass off and work as hell if I can. And then, ah yeah. So I think this is a ah perfect moment to ah reconnect and revalue the purpose of your own business. and So that's it. I agree. I think there's just a lot of work that has to that has to go in. um I think you've given both given very good pieces of advice. um And on that note, what is next for Munich Fabric Start? I know that there's the next show coming up in January 2025, but you can maybe let me know what is coming up for the next season. um Obviously, you know, you can't tell us everything, but um what are you foreseeing the next shows to be like? And um yeah, what's your outlook for for the next um few months until the show and and beyond well in our season we are at a pretty early stage right now so we are still closing off the last last show and um we will only have our kickoff meeting uh in 10 days so that would be um the first outlook, the first information that we then transform into the show. But when it comes to um us as an organization and what's next for Munich Fabrikstad, I would say it in one word, and that's continuity. So we, in our our philosophy and our aim is to provide a relevant business platform that together develops with the market needs. And with our structure and our also mindset that we have in our organization, we manage to adapt quickly to the changing market. And in the current climate of yeah global challenges, various global challenges, I think that is key. And that is our aim to to remain a relevant business platform and to offer everything the industry needs, ingredient-wise, but also education-wise, to ye to proceed. Very exciting. Simon, what about you? and Well, I can totally relate about Claudia's remarks. um and So if I have to make this more concrete, then I have to be very secret because I don't share my lineup for January yeah on this time. Never do. That's fine. But I hope we yeah we we will meet in January live so I can give you a big tour in this Sustainable Innovation Lounge. That would be lovely. I think that seeing things in person, um obviously online is so important, but um online just doesn't always capture seeing it in person. and And I think that's why there's such an important place for live events um like Munich Fabric Style. So I would be honored and I think it's important and i encourage everybody to uh to visit the show and to participate and to to get involved um and if one can't do it in person then online is is not a bad second choice um so i wish you both the best of luck on working uh well wrapping up your previous season and working for the next and uh you can be sure the interline is going to be following along. And um it's great to have you, well, as Munich Fabric Start, it's great to have you as partners. So um really, really have enjoyed this conversation. And thank you. Thank you for your time, both of you. Thank you so much, Emma. i Likewise, enjoyed the conversation. and thank you for the great partnership and this interesting insight. here Yeah, thank you very much, Emma. And I hope to see you in january