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How The West Group Will Be Won: MLS involvement in the 2026 World Cup with David Gass
397 Plays6 days ago
David Gass joins Jeremiah for How The West Will Be Won but really not even talking about the West. Instead, the two discuss the MLS player involvement in the upcoming World Cup and even about the soccer parts of the event.
Follow David Gass on BlueSky and YouTube.
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Transcript
Introduction and Will Bruin's New Role
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come
Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Triumph
00:00:12
Speaker
on. Hey, O'Shaughness. Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Ooch of a gooch! All creatures, great and small! Rothrock gonna collect it, he does about, runs into the advertising order. Low to our left, ball goes in! Oh, what cross! And what goal! Where's my copy? got bunch of them in the car. How many do you cost them? 50 bucks.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'll deadline you.
Sponsorship Acknowledgment
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
MLS and the World Cup: Significance and Creative Segments
00:01:42
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. It is Wednesday, June 3rd, and I am joined once again by David Goss of SoccerWise to do a version of what we learned, no, of ah how the West will be won. and we're not going to talk about the West at all.
00:02:02
Speaker
We're just going to talk about and MLS involvement in the World Cup because that is we're all things World Cup these days, I guess. Well, you you put it in my calendar as how the group was one, which actually thought was very creative and good. I guess ah it was a creative name. how and And then it was like, well, if you want to go west, there's probably some like socio-geopolitical conversation about the western world and third world and middle world and global south that we could probably use
World Cup Historical Anomalies
00:02:31
Speaker
in there.
00:02:31
Speaker
If you're committed to the word west, most of all. Are we still is I know at one point there was a long streak of non-European teams winning the World Cup when the tournament is not held in Europe. Is that still intact? No, because Germany won in Brazil in 2014. Oh, OK. That's the thing. i really Because then Argentina went and won in Qatar.
00:02:54
Speaker
Right. So it would have kept it alive. But I have been saying many times, even with the Germany and Brazil stuff. for the most part, World Cups that happen outside of Europe, other things happen. Like right you look at Russia and you look at some of those things. and It's like the weird thing that happens is Russia cheats their way to ah a round of 16 or a quarterfinal or more likely is like a Croatia makes a run.
00:03:19
Speaker
But then when you look at O2 Korea, like you get Turkey and South Carolina or South Carolina. Wow. Turkey and South Korea in, in a semifinal, um you get Senegal beating France in the first game. Like,
00:03:32
Speaker
The World Cups we know of where there are these weird runs, Costa Rica and Brazil in 2014, they often happen in the non-European World Cups, which I think bodes well on top of FIFA nuking the format for this tournament.
00:03:46
Speaker
Right. Well, on that topic, I was looking at the Kickback Committee newsletter, and you guys had Norway in the semifinals. Right. Did you realize that? That's not my picks, to be clear.
00:04:00
Speaker
um I don't hate it. They are asleep. I mean, they are one of the black. they ever made it out of a group in their history? They had a golden generation in 98, which I think made it out of the group. And they haven't been back to a World Cup since. So yeah, everything that's happening for them is unprecedented. But the way they beat Italy in the, in the or ah the way they won World Cup qualifying, they're the highest scoring team in Europe.
00:04:25
Speaker
They were undefeated. All that stuff is stuff that's never happened to them before. So like everything that's happening to them is unprecedented. And it's all kind of, it's like funny, these moments where, you know, Erling Haaland's obviously one of one.
00:04:38
Speaker
But now the team's doing well and you look at it and you're like, well, Antonio Nusa and Oscar Bob, are they also one of one? Like Norway hasn't produced this type of player in multiple spots in forever, if ever.
00:04:51
Speaker
So it is all kind of coming together at the right time. think the big question is going to be Norway outside on the East coast of the U S in July and June, like physically, can they it? they going to melt? Are they actually going to melt?
00:05:05
Speaker
But their group I think that group might be might be the best group. There's a couple in there where i I really like a lot of the matchups, but having France, Senegal, and Norway is pretty incredible. And then our guy Valer is going to be traveling around watching every Iraq game, which I love for him. Absolutely love.
Anticipation and Surprises in the World Cup
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's, I mean, it is, you know, I am glad that we're finally getting into this stage of the World Cup where we're talking about soccer. Yeah, that part's fun. That is, because it is kind of fun. I just did a whole podcast ah right before this one where I talked to ah ah a guy who's like a content creator here, and we were talking about everything that wasn't soccer, and...
00:05:45
Speaker
And some of the the excitement is starting to build and it wasn't it wasn't like a totally negative thing. But it was it is refreshing now to feel like we can actually talk about the soccer, that we can talk about who the favorites are.
00:05:57
Speaker
ah You know, and another thing that has struck me about this tournament is just how how little I feel like I know about a lot of these teams. Yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
And like, there's so many, so many new variables that are getting involved in this. And, uh, and I don't know, it's, um, I don't know. I think this going really interesting on the field tournament.
00:06:22
Speaker
I think there's one thing which is because of the changes of the format and the amount of teams coming in, there's a bit of an unknown because some of the like givens have gone away where it's like, well, you have to win your first game because you have to set this up. And teams historically that do this, this is the way it finishes.
00:06:41
Speaker
We don't know any of that anymore. And we don't know any of it moving forward.
Impact of Expanded World Cup Format
00:06:45
Speaker
But also with 48 teams, we don't know what the gap is. Like, even with every once in a while, a Panama in 2018, who really struggled Saudi Arabia at times in the World Cup, there aren't really blowouts at World Cups.
00:06:59
Speaker
And there probably will be some because of the expansion of things and because of the way this one's set up. So ah yeah i don't think you're the only one where it's like, oh yeah, like I'm not really sure what Uzbekistan in a World Cup looks like exactly But normally I think we'd all be talking about that for six months going into it. But because there's 12 of them, it's harder to like pinpoint exactly and spend the time learning about it. Yes.
00:07:24
Speaker
The world's going to learn about Eloy Rune. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I've been the joke I've been making is like Derek Etienne Jr. is going to score a goal in the World Cup in a big moment for Haiti.
00:07:36
Speaker
And the whole world's gonna be like, Oh, no one knew who's this guy. And it's gonna be we've known for a decade, like we've been there on this guy. And that's going to be the case with a lot of things.
Daily World Cup Show Announcement
00:07:44
Speaker
um Can I give a quick plug, which is we're gonna have a daily World Cup show.
00:07:48
Speaker
that will be streaming and posting as a podcast. So every day, 930 a.m. Eastern Time, we're going to go live. Myself, Doyle, Susanna, Tom, Jordan, Michele Giannone will be with us, Eric Krakauer. So we're going to talk just about what's going on. And obviously stories outside of it when they're relevant, but A lot of it will be the soccer. So I think as people get excited and want to dip in and what did I miss? What should I be looking forward to?
00:08:12
Speaker
I hope we're going to be the spot to do that for everyone. um But I am digging in as well. And i I think these unknowns are fun. I think there's some of that that's exciting. my here's my Here's one of my theories. One of my theories is that there will be more upsets to big teams because the third place team getting through will allow teams to settle at the World Cup level that used to just be eliminated already.
00:08:39
Speaker
So my theory is... Like a Tunisia plays really well in their third World Cup game because the first game they're overwhelmed. They have to find the level they figure it out, but they went down one zero and then you got to chase the game. So now you lose. Now you have to win game two. That changes your game states.
00:08:55
Speaker
But now with those teams getting through rather than I think a lot of people expect, well, the deep teams will struggle maybe, but then they get through. and then their depth will win out. I think some of these unexpected teams will sort of find their feet and find their level and be able to pull off an upset in a round of 32 or a round of 16. Yeah, I mean, that is an interesting
Redefining Success for Teams in the Expanded Format
00:09:16
Speaker
theory. I remember I heard heard this and I found it very compelling because it it does create some...
00:09:22
Speaker
having that extra game, having that extra room for error does, you know, it does open the door for different things to happen. Uh, and it, i don't know. I think one of the, the interesting sort of side, uh,
00:09:37
Speaker
side effects of that also is, does it change what qualifies as a successful tournament? And I know there's always, you know, there's been this discussion of like, well, if the U S wins its round of 32 game, does that count as a knockout game? Right. And obviously it counts as a knockout game. It's a knockout game, but I do think it's a relevant question of what, what is success and winning one knockout game certainly is not going to be what American fans see as success.
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. Which is hard to quantify because they've won one knockout game ever. Right. right Like in the modern era, they've won one knockout game and o two. And that's it. And then gets Mexico. Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
Right. So I agree with you that going to the round of 16 is not enough, but it also will be a one of two moment if they do it in the round of 32 where they win a knockout game. And i sort of talked about it on our show a little bit of like, they need their moment.
00:10:38
Speaker
They need their sort of like we made it moment. And this group hasn't had that. The U S hasn't really had it in 10 plus years of like, beating a bigger name on a big stage. And that I think is what they'll be tested on.
00:10:51
Speaker
And the assumption is that won't be in the round of 32. But let me throw this at you. What if someone stumbles? And let's say I have a thing up, but I don't have it cleaned up. Let's say it's Germany in the round of 32.
00:11:04
Speaker
Right? So they've clearly struggled in the group stage. Then the United States men's national team knocks off the German national team in a win in a knockout World Cup game. And then they lose in the round of 16 to let's say here. So the way I have this set up, they lose lose to Belgium. Yeah.
00:11:20
Speaker
Do you feel that same about that as you would as what we just talked about? I mean, I think that there's room for nuance, right? Like, I think that you can feel good about beating Germany and still feel like overall the tournament did not live up to our expectation.
00:11:37
Speaker
And i you know and and i think getting to the round of 16 isn't a tear it all down, this is a disaster type of result, especially if, let's say, they beat Germany and then they go toe-to-toe with Belgium and they lose in a competitive match as opposed to getting blown out of the water the way that they did.
00:11:55
Speaker
And let's be honest, when they lost to Belgium in 14, even though the score, even though that was overtime, we all know, we watched that game, we know that they got their they got played out of the the stadium, yeah even though they were, even though the scoreline said it was it was competitive.
00:12:11
Speaker
and if they were So if they actually go toe-to-toe with a Belgium, I think you can feel like the program is heading in the right direction. But I think those are separate questions, right? I think whether or not the program is making progress and heading in the right direction is a different question than...
00:12:28
Speaker
do Are we satisfied with how the U.S. played in this tournament, how far they went? And look, I think the reality is that anything short of the quarterfinals is going to be disappointing because for a lot of the fans, they don't give a shit about where the U.S. program is. That's not the question that they come into this tournament asking. there They want to see the U.S. go as far as possible.
00:12:49
Speaker
And if it gets to the quarterfinals, I think you can go, okay, yeah, this is... Yeah, this feels this feels good. But if they go out in the round of 32, I think there's going to be understandably a lot of people who only tune into the U.S. once every four years who are going to think that this was a a disappointing performance. Yeah. I mean, if they got in the round of 32, 100 percent, I think the round of 16 is the question. If they go out and they don't win a knockout game fully.
00:13:14
Speaker
No, they don't go to a game, there's not a question. Right. If they win a knockout game against the big name, I think there's the piece of it, which is part of an experience of a playoff run or a championship run or whatever is like sort of the like ride you go along.
00:13:28
Speaker
And if they were to win their group, that means they probably at minimum finish on six points. Maybe they finish on seven. and then they beat a big team, it'll be um basically a three-week span where this team is on a platform and they will have shown really well. And if it ends the way you said of round of 16 against Belgium and um and they play well and whatever, it will be almost four weeks where the U.S. men's national team has shown themselves to be capable to the most people that have ever watched them.
00:13:59
Speaker
Is that enough to win people over? I have no idea. As people like us who care and are invested I think we would be underwhelmed. So I think all of that's fair. i am hopeful right now that some positive stuff's going to happen with this group.
00:14:15
Speaker
And i don't know where that hope comes from, but I'm choosing to have it. Well, I mean, and I also just think about how many times, like I think about 14 and 22 in particular, where we were in, where the U.S. was in a group that...
00:14:30
Speaker
whether or not it was literally the group of death where people were calling it like American commentators felt like, well, there's actually three good teams. So if we get out of this group, that means something.
00:14:41
Speaker
And I think like a lot of people said going into those tournaments are going, yeah, going into those tournaments. Look, if they can get out of the group, it's successful. But then when they lost, it was just, it was still disappointing. Right.
00:14:52
Speaker
ah Especially the way that they lost. I think 22 different than 14 because 22 was,
00:14:58
Speaker
fixing 2018, right? Sure. Like 2022 was, can you get back on track? They were the youngest team at the tournament. Yeah, that's true. 2014, I think was a bit more where they, they had pro proposed to the world like, Oh no, we're a legitimate player here. We've got a real shot.
00:15:12
Speaker
And they laid down against Germany. And then Tim Howard was the only one who really showed up against Belgium, right which I think was, was where they got that hit. But Yeah, I think the flip side on this one is they're not in a group of death.
00:15:25
Speaker
So they can't argue anything. They're definitely not in a group of death this time. Yeah. They can't argue anything. And I love that the Australian, you know, Mark Schwartzer was on TV with Mike Grella being like, no, we're happy with you too. I think that's fair. Like, that's right. It is fair.
00:15:39
Speaker
We're not a giant as a pot one team. And we're not in a group of death. Mexico is the same. Canada is the same. All of us got lucky draws. So all of us have to take care of business.
00:15:50
Speaker
And all of us have to make like the best of that. And I think you can argue that all four teams in are in in the U.S. group should all feel like they got a decent draw. 100%. Because there is not an overwhelming favorite. Any one of those... i don't think anyone would be surprised if any one of those three teams any one of those four teams advanced.
00:16:10
Speaker
And the only team who I think would... who they would say like, I mean, i I think all those teams can also feel disappointed if they don't advance. And I don't know that there's how many groups there are like that, where every team feels like they have a legitimate shot. Now that doesn't mean that the U S shouldn't like going, getting grouped.
00:16:29
Speaker
Let's I've, I've said this a few times to people getting grouped would be the biggest failure and U S were U S soccer history. And I would put it, I would say that is worse than not making the 2018 world cup I would agree with you. i don't think it's going to happen.
00:16:45
Speaker
I don't think going happen. but I'm just saying like, if that's what happens, it would be a disaster. Yes. But I talked about this with Doyle on our show today, which is coming out in a little bit. um ah It's a conversation and it's fine. It's fun. There's just, there's no world in which they don't, they don't put together two or three points and get out of the group just because of the nature of the way the tournament's built.
00:17:05
Speaker
But yes, I would agree with you that it would be worse than Kuva. Yeah. it Yeah. And we don't, need and we don't i don't, want to put that out there too much. I'm just saying like, cause people are asking, should the U S expect to get out of the group? It's like, yes, they should expect to get out of the group and it would be a huge failure if they don't.
00:17:21
Speaker
Correct. Uh, But ah I do think there is maybe more interesting in some ways to me than what the feeling around the
MLS's Growing World Cup Influence
00:17:31
Speaker
U.S. program is, is I think MLS has a lot of juice in this tournament. And it's not all tied to U.S. soccer, which is in the past really how you would judge MLS.
00:17:43
Speaker
the contributions of MLS is you would directly look at how many players did MLS put on the U S national team and how many, you and and, and, you know, we've been doing this thing where like how many guys came out of the academies for a long time at this point.
00:17:57
Speaker
But I think what's fascinating about this tournament is that you can fan out and see not just MLS team teams with players all over the tournament, but MLS academies with players all over the tournament. yeah Maybe most prominently Obed Vargas, who has made the Mexican national team, the Mexico World Cup team as a 20 year old.
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah. And he has, he probably won't start, but he's legitimately being discussed as a starter. And there's huge camps of people who think he's the best option there, especially if Edson Alvarez is going to play center back, which is probably going to happen.
00:18:33
Speaker
um And so it's not just like, oh, can he sneak on the roster? Oh, it's been expanded to 26. Oh, let's take him. So he'll commit to us. And then he's here for the future. He is coming in as a top 15, 16 performer on that team.
00:18:47
Speaker
And he's going to be a massive part of that midfield going forward. Like, I think if you were to say what's Mexico's great hope over the next 10 years, it's a midfield of him and Gilberto Mora.
00:18:59
Speaker
and like what they can build and what they can be a part of. There is not a ton of young talent around that to be super excited about. And that's going to be the core of the team. So he's, he's a big deal and it is incredible. Like he's from Alaska.
00:19:15
Speaker
It's like that alone. First Alaskan. It's it's that alone is insane. The fact that he came from Alaska play soccer and outdoor sport that needs space and made it to any extent is incredible.
00:19:29
Speaker
The fact that he's on a champions league team and now he is called up to a national team that has 130 million person. like population base they can pull from and the biggest league in the region. And he gets called in is huge. And we did an interview with a former, former Pumas director, um Eduardo Sriracha. And we talked a little bit about like the pool and where it is. And so he was saying the players who are born and raised in America sometimes have an advantage over the players who are coming up through the Mexican academies because They're a little bit fresher. Like they've seen these players all from when they were five years old all the way through.
00:20:05
Speaker
And the players that come out of the U.S., like a Danny Leyva, like a Brian Gutierrez, who makes this team as well, they want to have a little bit of a different style because they've been raised outside of the full Mexican soccer structure.
00:20:19
Speaker
And then they are like sort of interesting and intriguing. That only gets you so far. Like where Obed's gotten is past that. It's not just... oh, this is different. Let's see. Yeah, we'll spend, you know, Cade Cowell $3 million. dollars Like, who knows? It's a little different. We'll see how it goes.
00:20:33
Speaker
This is like you are a legitimate piece of Javier Carre's national team. um and And he's going to be a huge factor. And it's super exciting. I think it's a huge feather in the cap for Seattle to say, look at what we can do. Look at the places we can put you.
00:20:49
Speaker
Look at the players we develop. um I think it's a pretty big feather in the cap for Seattle. the MLS structure overall. And it's like a huge credit to him. Yeah, I would agree with all that. I, one of the more fascinating things I saw recently was Danny Leyva was getting plaudits in the Mexican media for being so hardworking and covering so much ground. And we're like, that was not really the, ver that was not the things that he was known for here, but it sort of shows like the levels of,
00:21:18
Speaker
what's expected of Mexican players. And, you know, I would think Obed is even like an extreme case of that because here's a player who is a grinder, who does all the, you know, all the dirty work that Mexican players are not necessarily yeah known for.
00:21:34
Speaker
so a bit of a mea culpa, the recording session on this episode did not go quite as planned. i'm not going to get into all the specifics, but we lost some of the recording and I just wanted to,
00:21:47
Speaker
Add this ending. But first of all, i want to say thanks to David Goss of SoccerWise for coming on. i I think they've got a whole bunch of good stuff coming up. They've got First Take. They've got a live taping of First Take coming up in Chicago. If you happen to be over there, I would go check that out. But they also are doing a whole bunch of content on Kickback Committee and First Take, previewing the World Cup, covering the World Cup. They're, of course, doing SoccerWise with David Goss.
00:22:13
Speaker
Matt Doyle, Tom Bogert, all the normal heads. So be on the lookout for all of that. ah Sound at Heart and Nos Adietes will also be doing a whole bunch of stuff locally. We are in the process right now of putting together a watch party where we'll also be distributing or have ah our magazine available for purchase.
00:22:34
Speaker
And that's hopefully going to be on July 12th, doing it around the U.S. opener against Paraguay. We are definitely going to be doing two other events 18th at...
00:22:45
Speaker
eighteenth at Project 9 in Maple Leaf, we're going to do sort of a mixer. ah Everyone's invited to that. That's going to be from 6 to 10 p.m. That's the night before to the U.S. game against Australia. Then we're going to be doing basically a whole day of activity on June 19th at Fast Fashion in Soto.
00:23:06
Speaker
we'll be They'll be opening up at 8 a.m. m for the 12 o'clock game. There's going to be a pre-funk at Project 9 that we're doing with the SCUF podcast, which is, frankly, my favorite U.S. national team podcast.
00:23:17
Speaker
And then we're going be doing a watch party during the game in case you don't feel like actually going to the game. So that'll be going on. And then after the game, the scuffed guys are going to do a live post game show.
00:23:29
Speaker
I may or may not be joining. I don't actually know But I think that would be a lot of fun either way. So be on the lookout for all that stuff. Of course, the new episode, the new issue of four is also available for purchase. You can find that on sounderheart.com.
00:23:43
Speaker
We will also have copies for sale at all of these live events if you want to pick one up in person. And with all that said, i should probably get out of here. i am Jeremiah Oshan. This is No Sadie at Disc, part of the Sound at Heart Podcast Network, and we'll catch you next time.
00:24:27
Speaker
Let's go and Sounders.