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Cesar Hernandez talks Obed Vargas and Mexico’s World Cup chances
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Cesar Hernandez (ESPN) joins Jeremiah to talk Obed Vargas on the Mexican national team roster and Mexico’s overall chance at this years World Cup.
Follow Cesar Hernandez on BlueSky.
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Cesar Hernandez on Mexico and Vargas
00:01:44
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of No Saudietes on the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Joining me today, a very special guest, Cesar Hernandez of ESPN. He is going to be covering the Mexican national team in Mexico ah throughout the World Cup.
00:02:00
Speaker
Cesar, welcome to the show and ah excited to talk to you about Obed Vargas and the Mexican national team. Most definitely. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, so Obed Vargas, obviously this is the main reason we are interested in Eltrie.
00:02:16
Speaker
what is his what How would you describe his place in this team? Because it seemed to me as recently as you know a month ago that ah he was a long shot to make it. But ah sure enough, there he is right in the in the squad and and you know getting some minutes. and We still don't know quite what his role will be.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, right now, I think he's a rotational option. And I think what helped him recently was, unfortunately for Mexico, they had the injury to Marcel Ruiz. And I think when Marcel Ruiz was therefore not available for for Mexico, that then gave that opportunity for Obed to be in this team.
00:02:52
Speaker
Now, if you're going to me, is he going to be a start at the World Cup? Is he going to be a key player at the World Cup? I'm not entirely sure about that. But I do think that i think that if Mexico up won nothing It's the 70th minute. They need to close out the game.
00:03:09
Speaker
They need kind of a settled presence in the midfield, not some sort of attacking threat. Then that's where I think that Obed will be a key figure. But we'll see how many minutes he does actually get. I mean, yesterday is friendly against Serbia.
00:03:21
Speaker
He stayed on the bench, did not get any minutes. And that was pretty much close to the starting 11 that Mexico is going to have at the World Cup. And we saw some players off the bench will probably will be having Some key roles off the bench, though.
00:03:36
Speaker
i don't think he'll be a truly game-in, game-out impactful player, but I do think he will get some minutes and be a calming presence for Oltrie. Does it seem like the move to Atletico Madrid was a
Vargas' Move to Atletico Madrid
00:03:50
Speaker
huge... like How big of a factor do you think that was in him ultimately getting into this team?
00:03:55
Speaker
I think it's a significant factor, especially when you consider the manager, Javier Aguirre. A lot of people, you know, maybe they're not aware, but Javier Aguirre really truly made a name for himself as a coach in La Liga.
00:04:06
Speaker
So he knows plenty about the significance of that league and he knows plenty about being able to have... and i I was about to say a starting role. It's I know we can't really say that, but I mean, Obed was getting starts in recent games for Atlanta. I think he made eight starts or something like that. All in, in league play.
00:04:26
Speaker
So I think you can't, there's no way of overlooking that. Right. And I think that he's had some, he's had some good moments too, for it. Let the, I mean, he, yeah he had an assist as well recently for it. Like, so I think that's something you couldn't overlook. And yes, he's still young kid.
00:04:41
Speaker
You know, if if it wasn't for teenage phenom, hilamora you know, he opened would be the youngest player on the roster. But that being said, I mean, you've seen it.
00:04:51
Speaker
You saw it week in and week out. He's surprisingly mature, surprisingly calm. Yeah, you know, he's a player. The way I sort of always described him is that ah he's someone who once he gets into a team, it's it's like once the coaches see him up close and personal, they sort of start to fall in love with him because he doesn't make mistakes, that he does a lot of the simple stuff well.
00:05:18
Speaker
And he's i mean he's capable of doing more than just the simple stuff. But he he is someone who I know... he seemed to believe that if he could just get in front of ah Diego Simeone on a regular basis, that ah it would just be a matter of time before he sort of won him over. And that seems to be what happened.
00:05:34
Speaker
And it didn't even really take that long. It was surprised that he, you know, you look at all the players that have made the move from MLS to a team of the caliber of athletic cope. And oftentimes they go immediately on loan and whether or not they, they play for the the first team or not is sort of like lost to time. Right. But he you know, he was in the roster almost immediately. it you know, he wasn't starting right away, but he, he was able to,
00:05:59
Speaker
you know, like you said, just sort of, he got himself into regular starts. ah I wouldn't say he was a starter. He may have only been the second or third. He took advantage of some opportunities of injuries and whatnot, but still, it'll be interesting to see if that ends up playing out at the world cup as well, where it's like,
00:06:16
Speaker
you you see ah you see Vargas enough times and it's like, yeah, why don't we get him into the team? ah But you're it is an interesting that, ah you know, this is, at least from afar, it seemed like Mexico's midfield was starting to get a bit old.
00:06:32
Speaker
And all of a sudden now they have these two, three guys who are all quite young.
Mexico's Young Midfield Optimism
00:06:37
Speaker
And now all of a sudden the future seems very bright for at least at in the center center part of the midfield for for Mexico.
00:06:44
Speaker
Oh, 100%. I mean, you know, I mentioned to him already. Moura. who also plays and in the midfield. mean, he's more sort of an attacking option, but because when he was growing up, he's the youngest player in the, to make any roster and he, and and he could be a starter. Is that right? I was going to say um some like group chance yesterday. a lot of us were surprised that he was not starting for Mexico. So I think a lot of us are anticipat anticipating that he'll start.
00:07:09
Speaker
uh in the next game but then yeah then you have uh brian gutierrez who's been he's been killing it with chivas you know that you bring in obet vargas and then i mean marcel reese who's injured i mean i know he's not he's not the youngest player but still he's only 24 you you throw him in with the other guys too and suddenly things look decent for old tree uh in their future so we'll see how that goes yeah Yeah, and so more broadly, as far as ah Mexico goes, what is the, i don't know, what would you say the general feeling about the team is? You know there's just been a lot of publicity and, you know, El Chicharito came out and said how, oh, everyone is so negative about the Mexican national team. That's why players sometimes don't want to play for them.
00:07:54
Speaker
But what is the feeling going into this World Cup? Is it is it more positive than it has been? I think that... you know I think about the entirety of my life, actually, with the pessimism that comes with the the Mexican national team and seeing them always do well in the group stage and they get immediately knocked out in the knockout round. And in the last World Cup, they didn't even make it into the knockout they were I was there in Qatar when they they fell out in the group stage.
00:08:22
Speaker
So I think that kind of represents this idea that Mexican soccer has, and don't want to say it's regressing, but it has stagnated since what the 90s. So I think because that there's always that sense that Mexico is also a big fish in a conca calf sized pond. And guess what, it's no longer the only big fish. Now you have Canada, now they have us and then suddenly you look at other national teams within the conca calf pond, you're realizing, okay, teams are reaching the same level, if not surpass what Mexico's done.
00:08:52
Speaker
That kind of has lingered for years, if not decades now. Now, here's the thing. With Aguida stepping in, it's Kind of funny because it's it's almost like, and with Rafa Marquez as his assistant coach, suddenly there's this nostalgic sense of, oh, what if? Remember back in the day when Aguirre took charge of the team? He really elevated Mexico as a firefighter of sorts.
00:09:19
Speaker
I don't think he had to be a firefighter in his third tenure here with El Tri, but what he has done is he's made them more practical. And I think that's kind of a throwback to Mexican soccer,
00:09:33
Speaker
I don't know, maybe but back in the 90s, I guess we could say, is that there was more practicality than more all-out attacking brilliant soccer that can lead to disastrous results at times. Now, with all that in mind, what's that what that's then led to is a so surprisingly good run of form for Mexico.
00:09:55
Speaker
I mean, they're undefeated in 2026. They have six wins, two draws, their losses this year. have I think it was, yeah, 15 goals scored, I think only two allowed.
00:10:09
Speaker
And then you close out everything in preparation with a 5-1 thrashing against Serbia. so suddenly hopes are now pretty high going into the World Cup. Am I going to say Mexico are going to go very far?
00:10:24
Speaker
Well, I don't know. and that And that kind of represents that. I was going to say no, but that kind of represents now this new sense of optimism for the national team. so it's it's It's undeniably exciting now. And it's not just because the world keeps landing on on home soil for a limited amount of time, but there is a new sense of optimism.
00:10:47
Speaker
So you mentioned some of these recent results and I, it just worth sort of like running through it to, to give it a little bit of context. So Mexico beats the United States in to win the the gold cup in July. And then they go on a six match on our winless run to close out 2025.
00:11:04
Speaker
And then they pick up in 2026 and they scored. It wasn't that they just went six oh and two. They did it against pretty good competition. They beat Panama
Mexico's World Cup Hopes
00:11:14
Speaker
in Panama. They beat Bolivia in Bolivia.
00:11:16
Speaker
They beat Iceland four zero. Then they but tie Portugal and Belgium, two teams that in the same window thrashed the United States. And then they beat Ghana two zero, Australia one zero. And then this like the most recent game.
00:11:29
Speaker
the 5-1 win over Serbia. These are good results against real international teams. And I have to imagine that it's lifting sort of the spirits of, of maybe skeptical, uh, El Tri fans.
00:11:42
Speaker
It has to, I mean, it it absolutely has to, because this is also the moment in which a lot of Mexico fans will say, well, this is different when you're playing in a friendly environment and The World Cup is an entirely different situation. Qatar will be challenging. Russia will be challenging. Brazil, and then you're like, oh, wait, this is actually going to be in a friendly environment. This is going to be a situation in which Mexico will be co-hosting the tournament.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yes, even if Mexico finish in second place in the group, then they'll be playing in Los Angeles. And guess what? That's also a very friendly environment. That was part of Mexico's standoff series was that game recently in Pasadena. so you can't help but feel extremely, extremely optimistic.
00:12:26
Speaker
well and you you So you bring up this idea that ah l L.A. could be a a friendly environment for Mexico. Now that might be understating things. ah l L.A. is is really kind of the home away from home for Eltrie especially. I would guess that they have played as many games in l L.A. as they have played anywhere else, right?
00:12:50
Speaker
ah But they it's also part of a a growing... Seemingly a growing trend of Mexico embracing dual nationals and not just dual nationals, but Mexican-Americans, know, players who grew up, not just have two passports, but who really grew up in the United States and are, for all intents and purposes, Americans who are are now playing for Mexico, Obed being one of the prime examples and Brian Gutierrez being the other on this national team. Does it feel like there is a real changing shift in terms of the embrace of of dual nationals and Mexican-Americans in particular?
00:13:26
Speaker
100%. And it's something that the Mexican Federation needs to capitalize on. It's something that the Mexican Federation needs to really take advantage of because the second largest Mexican city, when you're looking at total Mexicans, is after Mexico City is Los Angeles.
00:13:42
Speaker
if California was a state in Mexico. It would be the state with the second most amount of Mexicans, you know if you include the Mexicans Americans as well. And then you couple that with a recognition that MLS academies are also improving. MLS academies are definitely, they' they're they're a different level than they were, let's say, in even even a decade ago, actually. i mean it's I'm saying that actually to an extent,
00:14:09
Speaker
I'm seeing it different level here in San Diego as well. Obviously, San Diego is in a unique unique situation in which they can you know bring in players from Tijuana. But then that also adds in a different layer as well when you think about dual nationals. So I think that this is something that Mexican soccer has to capitalize on.
00:14:28
Speaker
And especially when you think about that a lot of these players, you know they may... I mean, I'll use myself as an example. I feel extremely Americanized in many ways. i was born in Los Angeles, went to school up in Northern California, you know, was basically a hippie over there in Santa Cruz for quite some time. But if you if you ask me which team I have the strongest connection to, it is it is Mexico. And I think a lot of that tends to be cultural. A lot of it, that you know, there are so many similar stories of kids saying like, yes, you know,
00:15:04
Speaker
I'm American and i was born in this U S city. But when I think about soccer, I think about my dad. When I think about soccer, I think about my mom. when I think about the, I think about a Theo. So I think that is a common trend. And that is something that Mexico a hundred percent has to do, especially since who was it that I was talking with? There was, um, someone who they work within like the youth national team set up in in Mexico.
00:15:29
Speaker
Um, and they said that a, a big advantage that they have when they're catering to dual nationals is that they're saying, Hey, you know what? You can choose USA. You can choose Mexico, but like, but you know what? Just come to your home country. Like let's, let's show you around where your parents are from.
00:15:44
Speaker
Let's show you Mexico. So this is, this is part of like your lineage and I will win over a significant amount of dual national. So I think that's also fascinating as well, but yeah, I think it's something that Mexican soccer has to continue to capitalize on. And I think we're going to see a lot of overlap there. And the same, we could say possibly for,
00:16:01
Speaker
And to an extent, the U.S., when you look at someone like Alejandro Zendejas, you know, he's making a name for himself in Globo, America. he's living the American dream out there in Mexico City, but now representing the U.S. men's national team. So it's it's it's interesting how can go both ways as well in that the duality of Mexican-American soccer, which seems to be blurring and blending and in so many different ways.
00:16:23
Speaker
No, i it is. and it's i mean i And I hope that this is sort of like one of the stories that does end up getting told by this joint this world cup that has, you know, that is, has three nations hosting it. And, and there's been so much negativity and a lot of it deserved. Like, let's be honest. I think, uh, a lot of the, the negative press that is around the world cup is not some cynical ploy to look for bad stories. It's a genuine reality that FIFA has, ah pissed off a lot of constituents, uh,
00:16:56
Speaker
but there are some fun, like really positive stories to tell about sort of the, the crossing borders and the sort of the blending of these, you know, cultures that, uh, if we can get past the, the ugliness of, of some of the politics that there's like some like genuinely nice stories to be able to tell, uh, that hopefully get told as well.
00:17:16
Speaker
Uh, Speaking of which, ah what what has you know we've heard a lot about frustrations with FIFA in and the whole ticketing process in the United States.
World Cup Ticket Price Concerns
00:17:26
Speaker
What's that story like in in Mexico where they have ah some stricter rules and laws against ah secondary markets, right? Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
I haven't have a done like dived into it too much as much as I did with the US. From what I have seen from reports, it's not my reporting, I've seen from other reporting, is that I believe, and like don't quote me on this, but I believe on the resale market, you have to sell the ticket at face value in Mexico. That being said, there are still frustrations with the prices of tickets that I have definitely seen in Mexico with the amount of tickets are going in Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Monterey. Fans are still feeling priced out.
00:18:06
Speaker
of the tournament yes the prices are lower in and mexico than they are uh in the u.s but fans are still feeling i think if you ask an average mexican soccer fan they'd probably be pretty just as frustrated as american fans um when it comes to the amount of the of his ticket prices and i'm assuming you've been on the ground and in mexico uh relatively recently what's the You know, what's the the attitude? Is it are people because I might think here you find a lot of mixed emotions about the World Cup. Like there is i think there is a sense of once the ball starts kicking, you know, people will get more excited about it. But in the lead up, so much of the coverage has been negative and so much of it has been about what's wrong.
00:18:53
Speaker
ah Is it similar and in Mexico? Fans are still frustrated. I would still say that it's similar to the U.S., but what I will say, though, is that I think that they're still more excited about the tournament, at least from what I've seen.
00:19:08
Speaker
i mean, i was just in Mexico City last month, and there was signage and advertisements and vendors and fans. You could sense that people were already getting excited about the tournament. So that I can say, like as a fact, as someone who was just in Mexico City for about a week last month. And I'll be flying out there tomorrow. But I think there is still a little bit of that frustration for the numerous reasons that we can kind of, way that we can dive into when it comes to the World Cup. but But I do think that there is a little bit more of that anticipation of that, I guess, just the thrill of post of hosting another tournament too. Because I think that like... Setting a record for the first country to ever host three.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yes, exactly. think that there's also... Obviously, the U.S. has hosted a World Cup as well before, back in 94. But I think it's something different for Mexico and for Mexicans to say, hey, we're the first country to be able to host three.
00:20:05
Speaker
And it's something that doesn't go back, not just, let's say, for Americans who can say, oh, I remember 1994. But for Mexicans to say, hey, I remember 1986. Hey, I remember 1970. This could be like three different generations. I mean, like one of the things that actually struck me was that I mean, it was a knockoff shirt, like some random store that I went to, but it was like a dad with a 1986, it was like a 1986, like on the back of his shirt, and he's like lifting up a little Mexican kid. It says 2026 on the back. don't know. So I think about that as well, then you can throw in 1970, and it reaches a different level, and then you couple that with the obvious...
00:20:49
Speaker
No, but I don't have to tell you this. Everybody knows this is just that the level fandom for soccer in Mexico is obviously different than that. of the united states i don't i don't have to tell you that. So you couple that and then you have a lot more excited fans.
00:21:02
Speaker
ah And, you know, one of the things here that, you know, we obviously you're well aware of is that there's a sense that the international tourism that we were sort of expecting a year or two ago has not materialized or doesn't seem to be materializing for a lot of real world reasons.
00:21:23
Speaker
Uh, has Mexico, do you have any sense of whether or not the international visitors are coming to Mexico in the way that, uh, that, I don't know, meets expectations.
00:21:36
Speaker
That's a good question to me, but my answer to that is, I don't know. My answer to that is we'll see. We'll see. yeah I mean, I'm really fascinated about that as well. And I think that like, and how they're received as well. i mean, I guess,
00:21:47
Speaker
and The most recent example, which I guess is promising, is that you know South Africa, Mexico's like opponent, they'll be playing next week. They showed Pachuca, but then kind it like the so many people for Pachuca went out there were like,
00:22:01
Speaker
embracing them one kid like asking for autographs they brought out like a mariachi for for this opponent and that makes it go not to face so but my lot of which this is all a long answer for i don't know we'll see i mean it's a i mean it isn't interesting i mean that's one of the things i'm really fascinated to see if that if ah canada or mexico end up seeing this influx of um you know cause a lot of the international sort of, uh, chatter has been, it's almost like a boycott against the United States, which is deserved and fair. And I'm not here to come, you know, not here to question it, but I, I wonder if it's, if those folks are instead going to Mexico, instead going to Canada yeah and, ah and
00:22:43
Speaker
Because it's, i mean, that is the fun of the world cup, right? It's, it's what makes this tournament so different than every other tournament really on earth is that it's this, you know, bringing together of all these people and that it's, you know, it's, I guess you could say the Olympics are similar, but this feels very different just because people are following teams and it's a level of, of fandom in, in soccer that is just different than it is in, in other sports. And it's sort of this universal language and,
00:23:12
Speaker
ah you know i I know that's one of the things that I'm i'm feeling a little bummed about is that ah you know i i think Seattle will still do you know it'll will still be a fun place to be, but it's just not going to be the international ah you know the international experience that I think we had hoped it would be.
00:23:30
Speaker
I feel like we're allowed to feel both ways, though, right? Because I think about myself and in Qatar where heading into the tournament, I felt a little weird, right? now I felt a little like...
00:23:41
Speaker
frustrated and I felt conflicted but then once the tournament kicked off like I it was a lot of fun and I got knocked all had had a lot of fun out there and you were meeting people from different cultures and whatnot and like I think it's um I'm gonna I'm allowing myself to feel that same situation in this tournament too to be feel bothered about the things I should feel bothered about and I mean we just talked about the ticket prices we could talk about so many other things but also to be appreciative of the stock and appreciative of people coming together and Yeah, well, and hopefully it's, hopefully we don't run into some serious issues, but but we'll see what happens. I mean, you never never know. We have quite a wild card ah here. Yes, yes, yes, to say the least, to say the least. To say the least. Well, and so you it sounds like you're going to be in Mexico, though, for basically the next month. Is that about right?
00:24:37
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. Mexico city, Guadalajara and Monterrey. So basically just following the Mexican national team and then sneaking in we'll see TBD on some other games, but sneaking in ah another game or two out there and then, and then we'll see for the, for the knockout round.
00:24:52
Speaker
Well, that's, I mean, that'll be a fun, it'll be a fun adventure. I'm sure that'll be at the very least something that will be individually ah fulfilling and and interesting and,
00:25:03
Speaker
You know, and I do i would be I do hope that, you know, Mexico does well in this tournament. I hope the United States does reasonably well. I find myself hoping for exactly the quarterfinals. Like, I think that's the for the US. Like, that's the like where I'll feel good about the sporting part of it.
00:25:20
Speaker
And I don't but we don't have to worry about anyone ah sort of glory hunting over that. yeah I think i think that's I think it's the same for Mexico. I mean, i I did talk about like why that's their big goal. You know, the quinto partido was, you know, this kind of like mythical goal for now for quite some time.
00:25:41
Speaker
Now it's it's not the quinto partido now because there's now another knockout round. You don't think they're going to you don't think if they get there that they'll they'll say, no, the curse is over. look I think because of the new format, you're going to have to make it to the sixth game. I think it's now... Because the mythical status was reaching the quarterfinals. It just happened to be the fifth game. Now it's going to be the sixth game. So that'll be the new... That mysticism of that fifth game is now out the window, if you ask me. But I think I'm on the same boat, too, that I think that for Mexico... obviously the U.S., too. I think quarterfinal...
00:26:19
Speaker
i take the a quarterfinal A respectable quarterfinal exit would be would be a success. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, that's certainly my in my pre my view of it. I was actually just talking to another podcaster ah on our show and and and they've been sort of the debate here is, does it count as a knockout game if the US wins the round of 32?
00:26:43
Speaker
because the U S is only one, one knockout game in its history. And that was obviously against Mexico. ah And I, my attitude is, well, yeah, it counts. It's ah literally a knockout game, but if the goal is to get to the quarterfinals, that's a different, you know, that's a different measurement, but ah ah yeah, I just, i don't know. it It is interesting how this all is going to be different and how it's going to change. And I'm, I'm ready for, for games to start actually getting played and, and in some of that. So.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, likewise, likewise. And we'll see what not ready to do all the permutations just yet to see who some of those third place teams will be. at aliceles i'll I'll save that for the number crunchers. Right. Because I guess Mexico also got kind of lucky, like the United States, in that if they win their group, they'll play a third place team.
00:27:30
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So i' I'm ah not going to waste my time. don't know who that team could be. out' any I don't know. It'll be a lot of work. Or maybe it wouldn't be that much work, but I'm just just waiting for that to all roll out and then and then we'll see how they play.
00:27:46
Speaker
Fair enough. yep all right Assuming, and once again, assuming they, you never know. there Assuming they make it to the knock around, you never heard know. You can never, I guess you can never assume. I mean, that's, I don't know. We also have talked about this is that I think everyone that's following the U.S. certainly feels like, even though it's a tough, it is a, it's a tougher group than I think a lot of people appreciate. Like Paraguay, Australia, and, and Turkey are all good team. They're none of them are bad teams, right? Mm-hmm. But and so but they're also no great teams. And so it feels like the U.S. has a relatively clear path to getting out of the group.
00:28:29
Speaker
But if they don't, it would be a massive failure. And, we would in it but you know, that's how that's how it is. But all right. Well, Cesar, ah where can people follow you? And ah and, you know, yeah, where can people follow you?
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, just on social media. You can follow me at Cesar H football. I'm usually youre pretty active on blue sky. And that's kind usually just blue sky. I should probably use my Instagram account more. I don't really do that on Twitter. I'll just read you on yeah ESPN.
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah, hate and that as well. Yes. yeah That company. But I thought you were thinking, talking more about, right i know i just want to make you yeah but yes, it's also an ESPN. We'll see. Obviously that's where all my work will be.
00:29:13
Speaker
will be published, might be doing some video work out in the World Cup through ESPN. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I'll be following Mexico, eating some good food, and probably complaining a little too much. Eating some of the best food. Let's not be too... You're going to be treated to some amazing food, I'm sure, during this trip.
00:29:36
Speaker
Elite, world-class food. Absolutely. And complaining about the traffic probably every day. Will you take, just out care, will you take the metro in, in Mexico City? ah so, i usually just take Ubers because they're fairly yeah reasonable and cheap and just, I get a little lazy, but, I mean, I i might, if, like, the traffic does actually get ungodly, like, at, like, an even worse level than it usually does, but I usually try to, i don't know like, like, like give myself enough time to get to the spots I want to go to. So we we'll see, but I probably more than likely just, just relying on Uber. Um, not, they don't have left out there. So it's just only Uber, but yeah, probably just, yeah, just doing that.
00:30:16
Speaker
Fair enough. All right. Well, Cesar, uh, thank you for doing this. Uh, and I'm sure people will be, uh, very interested in, in following your coverage. Cause we have quite the, uh, quite the interest in Mexico these days. So, uh,
00:30:32
Speaker
Good luck. And we'll we'll catch up with you next time. I'm Jeremiah Shan. This is No Study Yet. This is part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. And we will catch you next time.
00:31:11
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.