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Belgium - Egypt World Cup postgame with Tim Ostlund-Foss and Jeff Reuter
374 Plays14 days ago
Tim Ostlund-Foss and Jeff Rueter joined Jeremiah for a postgame chat about the Belgium - Egypt match. They talked about the first-ever World Cup match in Seattle, raving about the atmosphere and fans. Then they panned out to talk about the tournament as a whole and how impressed we've been with the quality of play and the crowds.
Follow Jeff Reuter on BlueSky. Follow Tim Ostlund-Foss on BlueSky.
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Transcript
Introduction of Will Bruin and his contribution
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on. Hey, O'Shaughness. Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Ooch of a gooch! All creatures, great and small! Rothrock gonna collect it, he does about, runs into the advertising order. Low to our left, ball goes in! Oh, what a goal! Where's my copy? got bunch of them How many do you cost them? 50 bucks.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'll deadline you.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back another episode of Sounder Heart on the, no, of No Sadietes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. was going to say, is that the translation? No, that's not the translation. It's Monday. We are just finishing up with a hot, hot day in Seattle at Lumen Field, or no, sorry, Seattle Stadium, Nay, Lumen Field.
First World Cup match in Seattle
00:02:02
Speaker
And I'm here with Jeff Reuter and Tim Foss. How are you guys doing? We're good. We're good. i I appreciated my walk up to field as it is when you're at the exterior of the stadium. old Field. Just so good.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, a little sweaty, but better for the the day we've had so far. Exactly. So, of course, Jeff is joining us from The Guardian. Yes, that is the one.
00:02:29
Speaker
And Tim, you know well by this point, but we just finished the first ever show. World Cup match in Seattle. I was talking to Seattle Times beat reporter, World Cup beat reporter, I guess we'll call him Tim Booth.
00:02:46
Speaker
And he asked me if it was fair to call this the biggest soccer match in Seattle history. And I said, yeah, I think that's that's fair. I think the question is is this the biggest sporting event to have ever been held in Seattle? And I think that might be a pretty...
00:03:02
Speaker
Pretty fair case. And now this is going to be eclipsed several times. Yes. Yes. the next few weeks. But for today, when we're recording this, I think this is certainly the of the biggest worldwide audience that Seattle sporting event has ever had.
00:03:15
Speaker
I genuinely can't think of a larger sporting event that's happened in Seattle. I i think F1 hasn't. Well, I guess F1 hasn't.
00:03:28
Speaker
I mean, we've had and MLS Cups. I know I was like, is this bigger than MLS Cup? yes Yes. Yes. Is it bigger than CockyCalf Champions League? yeah Yeah. Is it bigger than League's Cup?
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, it is. by f by Yeah, after some hesitation. No Messi for this one, but we did have Mo Salah and Kevin De Bruyne and Messi's never won a Premier League title. So both of those guys have, I think, you know, for star power, for crowd size, global impact of the game, I think very fair to call this the biggest sporting event in Seattle history. Yeah, it's really down to this or Seattle Dragons games.
00:04:14
Speaker
In the XFL. No, I mean, it was it was fantastic, right? Like just the genuinely the the spectacle of it um lived up to it. Right. I think that there was a really, really good crowd at this one. There's something that's actually it was a little eerie because they're both like red and white colorways. So neither of these teams like obviously stood out in the crowd where you didn't really know before the opening whistle what direction it was going to skew. But it was really credibly, I would say, almost more loudly Egyptian.
00:04:41
Speaker
than Belgian, but then again in the press box confines of plexiglass, who can even tell? Yeah, you know, so I originally had the same thought, and I thought, oh, this is actually an Egypt crowd until Belgium scored, and then Belgium scored, and i was like, oh, there are a lot of Belgium fans. And to be fair, it was actually just before when Lukaku came on. That's when it was like, oh, there are the Belgian fans. And then maybe that makes sense. They were down one zero until but they also weren't. I mean, there was a constant din coming out of the Egyptian half. And I don't know if there was a comparable concentration of egypt of Belgium fans anywhere, whereas the Egyptian fans had a little bit more and organization and they were more
Egyptian fans' vibrant presence
00:05:20
Speaker
constant. And
00:05:21
Speaker
But it was a good mix. It was a good atmosphere. You know, I went walking around Pioneer Square after the game and I ran into like an Egyptian after party that looked like it was having a lot of I mean, the Egyptians look like they're having a lot of fun.
00:05:35
Speaker
Maybe I just missed all the building stuff because I guess they were on the other side of the stadium. And so maybe if I'd gone towards Victory Hall, so yeah, then maybe I would have run into the Belgian fans. But the Egyptian fans came out and were really i impressive.
00:05:50
Speaker
I think there also is the element of from what I could tell in the stadium where there was a concentration of Egyptian fans was sort of where you would expect them. yeah Based on going to Sounders games where supporters groups end up.
00:06:05
Speaker
And it seemed like the largest consolidated group of Belgian fans was sort of on platform. west side of the stadium in southwest side one little northw west one little section but the egyptian fans seemed much more coordinated and orchestrated in a lot of the noise they were generating we also may be influenced here a little bit by the uh egyptian media in the press box oh my god were having the time of their lives it seemed like uh which
00:06:41
Speaker
you know, i think we're very accustomed to a particular sort of press box environment. Yeah. It is always fun to get and some of those other flavors happening.
00:06:52
Speaker
Jeff, I feel like you must have something to say about this because you texted me i during the game and said, it's a little much, right? And I said, well, in fairness, someone did just faint over here. So that might be some of the, uh, the chaos, but it is, it was a lot. There was a lot of,
00:07:08
Speaker
open cheering, I would say. In the second half, from from the kickoff of the second a half to the hydration break, I would say, there was like a constant running dialogue on my half of the press box of the Egyptian media just kind of talking about the game in front of them, cheering, groaning when things wouldn't happen, then talking about what position. Because like, it's one of those where it's like, I don't speak the language, but I recognize the names, right? yeah And so whenever they would start talking about the players and who was it that had the own goal and should he be playing, I'm assuming, was the following conversation but like it was it's one of those things where it's like international games you're used to with MLS right you're used to the decorum with an MLS there isn't that same sort of like um my heart can't be contained right now by the mute button so like I'm just letting it flow exactly and it's just like you have to kind of respect like this is a country that has not performed very well historically at World Cups they've never won a game at a World Cup and they were you know three quarters of the way to it two thirds of the way to it until they didn't
00:08:07
Speaker
but they still got a result. And so I would imagine, ah you know, again, that they'll be happier about this than Belgium, but Belgium will have some relief that they didn't drop three points to start the group. It would only be fair because I did bring it up to note that the Belgian media, although less visible, did give as good as they got when Belgium got their goal as well. Yeah. Just.
00:08:30
Speaker
to you know to be impartial on that front yeah there yeah neither neither fan neither journalist uh press corps i should say was exactly american in their decorum of press box etiquette and hey to be fair at the start of every sounders game they send they play a uh warning or a message that says please don't cheer in the press box they don't do that in people so i don't know maybe it's maybe it's us maybe really Maybe, maybe, though, I will say that having ah sat next to one of my British colleagues at the U.S. Paraguay game, they were even more shocked at like one audible gasp at the first own goal.
00:09:10
Speaker
There was like one person in the corner who had kind of cheered a little and they were just like, oh, we would frown on that. I don't personally mind, but I think that. And so I cannot imagine what he would have been doing at this game. I probably shouldn't be going into too many British press boxes then. We do have a tendency to, if not cheer, at least ooh and Ooh and ah. Ooh and ahs are fine. We're not above, I'll tell you, the Sounders press box is not exactly ah quiet.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah. I'll do like sharp gusts of exhale sometimes, like especially at the US game, right? Like if there's a near miss, if there's a tough tackle where it looks like Tyler Adams has another injury. We're humans. We will react in some way, but there's like that constant cheering. the cla There was actual applause at one point in the press box. Very strange. Oh yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, it was this segment will do really well with about five listeners. yeah People like the inside. OK.
Seattle's World Cup atmosphere
00:10:00
Speaker
Baseball is Yeah. But it was honestly kind of a dream.
00:10:06
Speaker
a dream, a dream day for Seattle. And if you could imagine a world cup coming to Seattle, I don't know that you could, you know, this is cliche, but I don't know that you could script it better than what it was a perfect day. I mean, it was maybe a little hot, but it was 80 degree, 80 ish degrees, which wasn't as hot as, i don't think it was as hot as the forecast. It suggested. I think it said it would get up to 89 and i clocked it at kickoff at 85. Okay. So not quite, not quite there. Yeah. quite And but it was a beautiful day out.
00:10:35
Speaker
There was a great crowd, a crowd that got there. You know, we I pulled in. to Pioneer Square, maybe around 930 or 945. And there was just like a a nice din of people.
00:10:49
Speaker
I saw people flooding out of the light rail station and. I think it was exactly what you want it to be. There was pop-ups everywhere. There were people milling around. I love the the pedestrian zone. oh Oh, that was great. where yeah In case you don't know, ah essentially from lumen field or from T-Mobile all the way to Yesler, there is essentially five-ish blocks wide of pedestrian zones.
00:11:17
Speaker
goes all the way through Pioneer Square. And it allowed for people to I think it's something honestly that Seattle should consider doing on all match days. I loved it. It was incredible. It was safe, first of all, which is great, because I like transported by scooter. exactly And it was very easy to get through. Peace of mind is you're trying to figure out which turn where am I supposed to park these things anymore? But also like they were the vendors anywhere. They wanted you to park them in. Yes. Yes.
00:11:40
Speaker
So so heads up, if you're booking a scooter, look where the parking zones are, because you will set it down and they'll say no, no, no. And you'll be very frustrated. Yes. And I definitely spent a couple of bucks looking for a parking spot. Yeah. Yeah. you know That's how they get you. yeah Yeah. It was I mean, it's a real.
00:11:57
Speaker
Festival atmosphere, I think. being able to walk around and they're just almost everywhere you looked in the streets, especially within two blocks in either direction of the stadium.
00:12:11
Speaker
There were just group after group of people kicking a ball around like, like, It's such a cool vibe around the stadium for games. i Yeah, it really, really makes you wish it was like this. Yeah. Much more often than just but this one time. Right. Do they always sell street hot dogs at 830 in the morning?
00:12:36
Speaker
Or is that a World Cup special? Well, that's a good question. I don't know that we've had a lot of opportunities to have 830 AM. and No, I would say even when they have an early kickoff, one o'clock would be normally, I would say, the earliest kickoff we'd have here. Yeah. And I bet you those street vendors are not set up until 10 the early. That makes sense. More like 11. It was wild showing up to a stadium. Like I just had like that first half of my iced coffee before hopping on the scooter. And of sudden it's hot dog time. We're smashing cream cheese and onion.
00:13:05
Speaker
Totally. Hot dogs. Yeah, it was it was wild. Only at a World Cup. The appropriate time to start drinking and eating hot dogs definitely shifts dramatically during a World Cup, regardless of yeah what time zone it's happening in. Absolutely.
FIFA's influence versus fan experience
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah. So one of the other things I was I was pleased by.
00:13:23
Speaker
was i was sort of expecting the pedestrian zone to be really sanitized in a fifa kind of branded way oh sure and it was not uh it was much more of an organic feel like there was still the normal especially outside the stadium like across the street from the stadium those were all the normal vendors and then and and honestly all the all the the food trucks that were set up were all the kind of local businesses and vendors that you would normally see.
00:13:54
Speaker
you know, maybe some food trucks I didn't quite recognize, but they were all like obviously legit food trucks. yeah And there are clearly some kind of FIFA zones within within that. yeah But it it felt much more organic than I had assumed it might. Like I felt like it might look like FIFA LAN.
00:14:09
Speaker
bifa land Yes. And that's not what it was. it my My only my like my favorite little corner of that part was the designated protester zone where if you had gripes, there was like an orange like fenced in pen that you could go like the town square and get shamed. But get your message across. And there was no one set up at 830 because I think the hot dogs are already cooking. So there was nothing left to protest. Right. But if if there hadn't been those Frankfurters, I really wonder what what the stump speech would have been. Well, you know, what was funny. There was a, I believe, a New York Times story talking about how excited the street preachers were about having the World Cup come to town because they could finally spread their hateful rhetoric. It's so expensive to take hate on a plane, right? Exactly.
00:14:55
Speaker
But if you can bring these countries to you. Right. they would they the All these foreigners would come to them to so they could spread their ridiculous messages. And I don't know where they were because I did not see them.
00:15:08
Speaker
I assume they were somewhere because they were out at 830. I can tell you that they were. They were certainly set up by the time I got there. Oh, OK. Where were I? So I'm assuming over on the on the south end. Just sort of in their same usual spot. Yeah.
00:15:21
Speaker
OK. Well, I was I was very disappointed to not run into them. ah You chose the proper paths to get where you were going. Though they would argue it's the improper path. and There's only one proper path. For sure.
00:15:36
Speaker
Bear in mind. Yeah, I also... So when I came in, I rode a scooter from North Seattle, and I went past the... Look, Uruguay, just for what it's worth, Uruguay just scored.
00:15:46
Speaker
They have salvaged potentially a rare point for South America in this tournament. Wow. But I don't want to become distracted by that. I came down the waterfront and it was so cool to see the Egyptian fans gathering at the Great Wheel and just the joy in the faces of the fans as they sort of approached.
00:16:07
Speaker
And it was like my people. And i have to assume that a lot of these are... expats living in the United States. because It just felt like that was they were giving very much American, kind of like these are my my people vibes. yeah and and not and And it just was kind of... And then i happened to catch catch them as they were doing their march to the match.
00:16:27
Speaker
They were waving this huge Egyptian flag and they were doing their chants. And it just it did really remind me of this is why... I wanted the world cup to come here. Yeah. I wanted this experience of seeing people from other nations and see them express their themselves and have fun and enjoy our city, but also bring their own flavor to it.
00:16:49
Speaker
And and I, I love that at the end of the game, like Belgian and Egyptian fans seem to be freely mingling Helps when it's a draw. Helps when they both scored. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, and we saw like so many other different jerseys, a lot of Liverpool probably with the most prominent non-partisan in this game.
00:17:09
Speaker
But there are definitely some, especially Bruce Lee kits for the Sanders because they would blend right in. That's right. I did see one guy bold enough to wear a Timbers jersey, which felt a little aggressive. That's rough. but That's rough. Just in general, that is that is that's a tough choice. That's a tough choice. a Difficult guy to be. like yeah like I'm going to wear my Timbers jersey to the Belgian-Egypt game in Seattle. Have they ever had a Belgian or Egyptian international?
00:17:36
Speaker
I don't. Probably not. No, I don't expect you to mention I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge. i I would be shocked if they have someone of Belgian or Egyptian connections ever in their historic lost world.
00:17:50
Speaker
I think it, you know, it helps for the attendance for this game that both teams have very high profile players.
00:18:01
Speaker
And it is, a you know, if you're i soccer fan in the Northwest broadly, maybe U.S. Australia is going to be a little rich for your blood. Yeah, this is the the next next big game. yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
It makes sense, but it it was i ran into. Guest of the pod, Alex Caulfield the mixed zone and was chatting with him a little bit, and it does bring to mind the conversation the two of you had, Jeremiah, about just the size of the soccer fan base in the U.S.,
00:18:41
Speaker
that extends well beyond Sounders fans and encompasses all of these people who just love the sport and they may not be tapped into their local MLS or USL or whatever team, but they,
00:18:58
Speaker
They love the game. They might love their national team or a particular Premier League team. I saw lots of other Premier League jerseys as well. Yeah. And given the opportunity to come see the big show in yeah their town or close to their town, like it's a tough thing to pass up. And we don't know where Mo Salah is going, but there is a chance that's the final competitive matchup between him and Kevin De Bruyne. And that's also that seems a massive draw. Now, he could go to Milan. That is one of the many rumored clubs for Salah right now. there's There's no clarity after that game about where he will be. I think that's a decision that's going to be kicked to whenever Egypt is eliminated from the tournament, which now seems, i mean, to be fair, if they play like this against New Zealand and Iran, they'll probably advance too. So so we might be waiting a little bit longer on Salah news, and that's... fine Yeah, i feel like I would guess that these based on today, those feel like two. people too I think so.
00:19:53
Speaker
The two most likely teams to advance. And i mean, Egypt, i you know, talking about the game a little bit, Egypt, especially in the first half, did not look like they were interested in giving an
Egypt's strategic gameplay against Belgium
00:20:04
Speaker
inch. Yeah, they fearless. Yeah, they you know, they scored first. I thought they were the deserved leaders and.
00:20:11
Speaker
They didn't I wouldn't say they bossed the game, but they did not play scared. They didn't play timid. They played like a team that believed in their talent. They they they played like they also watch Belgium's March friendly against the US s closely, where they skewed a lot towards the left because of Jeremy Doku. And he can play on either side, but they really liked the matchup on the right against on that day. It was Tim Weah starting at right back.
00:20:33
Speaker
um And so you would notice that Egypt was always as soon as the ball would even start to be passed to Jeremy Doku. They had two players on him and it made it incredibly difficult. Now, they did get away with, I think, a pretty obvious yellow card early on. And I think where ah someone kind of does like a just kind of like grabs him.
00:20:50
Speaker
Doku's leg from behind in between their legs with a sliding tackle. And that was allowed to go. And I think that the argument would probably be he wouldn't have gotten to the ball. But it did set a tone that generally the physicality was going to be upped. And I appreciated that personally, like it. Both teams were really testing.
00:21:06
Speaker
how much they could get away with. And there are a couple of yellow cards within, you know, so consecutive minutes. But um yeah, no, it felt like a game that Egypt looked at and said, this is our statement. This is how we actually can get control of the group.
00:21:17
Speaker
um Because, you know, I think that in any other World Cup, Iran would be neck and neck with them, usually on talent, but they couldn't bring all their best players given current events. And now they arrive at this kind of shorthanded. So, yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
while Egypt was leading, they also had a couple of really good looks that, you know, either shots were blocked or, uh, Courtois had a good save on a Mo Salah header that looked like the way Salah took the header sort of caught him off guard, but he recovered well and swatted it away.
00:21:58
Speaker
and then however you want to look at it, the, cooling break in the second half was sort of where things shifted. Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah. And it feels, you know, that's one of the things that the consistent things that I've noticed about this tournament is that the cooling breaks have been, pretty influential yeah uh either the plays that lead right into it or the plays that come right out of it oftentimes feel like they are some of the biggest plays there's also been a weird number of games that like where goals have been scored right up like the last kick yeah like i want to say there's been at least three or four i think so on the last kick of a half or a or the game yeah uh including the sweden game which was
00:22:42
Speaker
Wild. Yeah, I don't think they needed that one more kick, but no the goal difference disagrees. Yeah, ah no, and but I'm with you. I mean, even rudy Garcia and his post match via translation was saying like,
00:22:54
Speaker
I don't even think of them as cooling breaks. They're coaching breaks, right? Because players can run to the sideline and grab water if there's time. And obviously it's harder for your central midfielder or goalkeeper whatever, but have your own bottle there, strikers then.
00:23:05
Speaker
But they are treating them as if it's like, okay, let's go in X's nose, like, yeah, potch in his laptop or um just saying like, Hey, here's your weakness. After the first half, it was Belgium flipping what side Jeremy Doku was on so that he could be on like the, the relatively weaker half of Egypt's defense. And he had a little bit more success with that.
00:23:23
Speaker
Um, So they're there. I would say too influential, like I'm I'm coming down on this, like alongside a lot of people, but not not for the commercial reasons, which I also which I already hated from jump. Like that was the one that just felt too cynical. But even from a how does this change the game? It's not credible. It's a four quarter sport now suddenly.
00:23:44
Speaker
Sounder at Heart has been around in one form or another since 2009. In 2026, though, we make a pretty significant evolution when we go analog. Yes, that's right. In the year of our Lord, 2026, we are publishing a real-life magazine. We're calling this thing 4, as in Sounder at Heart 4.0. But we're stylizing it as IV because we absolutely love Roman numeral. And if you want to refer to it as IV, that's cool, too. The first issue has a comic book-style cover that was hand-drawn by local artist Kevin Newber. Features by Tim Foss, Susie Rance, and Charlie Bohm. A statistical deep dive by Kat Bush. A Q&A with Brian Schmetzer. A column by G. Willow Wilson. And photographs by Noah Reif, Max Aquino, Mike Russell, and Jane Gershowitz. I could not possibly be more proud of the work everyone put into making this, and I think you're going to absolutely love it. If you'd like to get your hands on one of these limited edition copies, we're currently selling them for $15 on our website. Get yours now. Nos Adietes admittedly is not exactly known for our spicy takes, but that doesn't mean we want our food to be mild.
00:24:46
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00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, I actually found myself thinking a lot about that, how, the quite they are effectively, cool like you said, they' it's like a four-quarter system because it's ah a three-minute break where every coach who has any brain is going to use that.
00:25:55
Speaker
you I mean, that's been the whole... That's been one of the things about soccer for so long is that it's a game played by... you All you can do is sort of put your chess pieces on the board and then you sort of have to let it play out. yeah And that's just not...
00:26:08
Speaker
That's not how it is anymore. No, no. and But like, I miss it already. Right. There's a part of it where it's like, on the one hand, you're maybe getting some of those moments where it's like, you know, the cooling break happens, Lukaku comes on and then they already know his first movement pattern and it comes off for the equalizing home goal. Right. And you you look at that and you kind of appreciate it for what it is. I think that there was a similar moment in the U.S. game in the second half, if I remember. Right. But um does it feel like the the experience we're used to with this sport? No, not at all. Right. And and it's.
00:26:37
Speaker
It's going to be very interesting to see how history remembers that evolution. If cooling breaks aren't maintained for 2030, though, granted, they'll be in some warm countries even closer to the equator. Right. It just feels like if FIFA has an excuse to inject commercials into the game, that they're going to do it. Yeah. And that's going be a great excuse to do it. And hey, credit to Telemundo, though.
00:27:00
Speaker
they're yeah They're actually treating this as an opportunity to like see what's going on in the field. despite I don't know that that will survive beyond this year. it's like It seems like one of those things where it's like, well, we didn't want to like selling. Unfortunately, your execs feel like you left money on the table more than it's like really good coverage. I'm glad you did that analysis of the first 22.
00:27:22
Speaker
Anything else from this tournament tournament that jumps out at you, Tim?
00:27:27
Speaker
I think it is interesting to see a couple things we've sort of talked about, but with, you know, we've mentioned off mic that,
00:27:43
Speaker
As of recording, South America has yet to win a game. um We're seeing teams get maybe what would seem like outsized performances from domestic players that...
00:28:03
Speaker
One of the talking points around this game in particular was the volume of Egyptian players based in Egypt. And so often, especially in U.S. soccer circles, the conversation is about getting more players to Europe.
00:28:22
Speaker
That's the conversation around El Trii. It is for any team not in Europe. The focus is getting your players to Europe because that's where good and players happen. And honestly, any any country outside of maybe Italy and England...
00:28:39
Speaker
getting them to somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah, very true. But I think to your point, too, like maybe that is a knock on effect of the Club World Cup that I didn't appreciate until starting to see some of these results where you have, for example, someone at my hotel was ah rocking in their all-E jersey. Right. And I remembered watching them in that opening game against Miami and the the prize pool.
00:29:01
Speaker
can then get reinvested across the league in theory, where then if they're going to say, let's go Hoover up, you know, Bayern Munich style, let's go get the best players from our rivals to weaken them while strengthening ourselves and make them regenerate, right? If that's going to become kind of the the economy that's created from these ludicrous prize purses just for showing up, like it will impact the breakdown of like domestic and foreign players at a World Cup over time. And and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it is a good thing to like kind of, and this is... Actually, i can guarantee you FIFA does want to take the epicenter of the sport away from UEFA if it can and spread it or even just weaken like that instant, because it always has been this like credible foil to it, whether it's Seraphine or predecessors. So it won't surprise me if that is one of the knock on effects. And i think that you're absolutely right, Tim. Like, like, I think that we have to view it in a very different light now because there's just so much that's changed over the last five, 10 years um about how the sport is operated because of FIFA, that FIFA competitions don't look like we remember them to look.
00:29:59
Speaker
And I think, you know, the cooling breaks shift some of how this plays out on the field with the ability to do additional coaching. But so often one of the issues with international football is that it's not a club team. You can't coach a team in the same way. It is harder when you have players.
00:30:21
Speaker
you know, more of a diaspora situation with your players to create a cohesive and consistent identity, a consistent playing style.
00:30:32
Speaker
But as we saw in this game, Egypt pulls a ton of its players from in particular, all Ali and Zemelech. And i think there's some pyramids FC players. Sure.
00:30:45
Speaker
But rather than, at least in this particular game, it being a very Mo Salah centric team with a bunch of dudes there to allow Mo Salah to shine. Yeah.
00:31:00
Speaker
you sprinkle Mo Salah, Omar Marmoush, and they are added flavor to this very solid defense first, but, you know, cohesive approach to the game that is able to, I mean, Belgium for all its golden generation has never really been a powerhouse, but it is still a much more fancy team by most people than
Growth of the Egyptian national team
00:31:28
Speaker
Egypt. And, know, the two sides went toe to toe and only narrowly came out with a one, one draw. Yeah.
00:31:36
Speaker
One of the things that the Egyptian coach talked a lot about in his presser was this sort of it the, I don't have all the context for, for this, but it did seem like he, he was being, was talking about the professionalization sort of a, the Egyptian national team. And here he was saying like, look, we have some great players. We've had great players.
00:31:57
Speaker
over the years, but we've never really had a great national team, at least at the World Cup level. and how There's no reason we shouldn't be a great national team. We have 110 million people. You compare the size of of Egypt to Belgium, and it's essentially 10 times as large.
00:32:13
Speaker
and how you know we we should be using all the modern coaching practices we should be breaking down tactics we should be looking at film we should be expecting you guys to come in for the full camp and not just show up on game day and and sort of talking about the professionalization of this and and i gotta say that it looked like a a serious national team it did not look like a bunch of individuals playing for themselves Yeah, and and that wasn't always the case with like either the last World Cup or AFCON, right? Like where that is very much most a lot of the Supremes, right? Where it's not quite as functional. I think that dynamic between him and Marmouche has gotten a little bit more coherent where it's just right. You stay on the right half of the attacking third. You stay the left half and then we'll we'll overlap in the center when the ball finds it.
00:32:58
Speaker
I think in particular with this game, you know, the goal for Egypt, Salah gets an assist. He does well in the play, but the goal is Imam Arush, who certainly was not a pip to Salah's Gladys Knight.
00:33:16
Speaker
He was... I mean, he was the style straw that stirred the drink all game. He had a fantastic goal, had several plays to create chances for other guys. Yeah. Very nearly had another goal. He did have one very wayward shot that. Yes. Calling it a shot maybe is generous. But when you score a goal. Yeah. On a on a good chance, you know, less than 10 yards out from goal. If your shot goes out for a throw in, it's probably not. Is that great? Yeah. Yeah. But he has.
00:33:47
Speaker
outside of like a six month stint with Michelin has played in Egypt, his entire career, he was phenomenal. I think it is, you know, there are,
00:33:59
Speaker
you can get into iffy territory when you take a very nationalist approach to building your national team, but they're national teams. The fun of a tournament like this is you get to see what does football look like in all of these places? Yeah. And it is so much watered down when every team is just who are your 10 plus dudes who play in Europe and who can you fill in behind them with?
00:34:29
Speaker
And that's that's where you also look and say, like for someone like a sure like he we're not as familiar with the Egyptian League. Right. And like and people who will come up against the US like when Australia comes here, they won't be as familiar with Christian Roldan. Right. But like the benefit that Christian Roldan has is that he starts in a very important role every single week. and he's not rotated out and you compare that to like a units musa that's why roldan's on the squad and musa isn't is because if you're chasing that club you're not going to get the minutes necessarily so i think that domestic leagues inherently do have value to the national team because you kind of have a an incentive based on the squad registration rules to actually build with important domestic players and at least some roles right and maybe you do have other players like you know your striker might be coming from somewhere else but that's fine like you know, there's ah I'm looking at Ali's roster right now and they've got a couple of guys from Morocco. They've got someone from Cape Verde. They've got, you know, like the very majority of this squad is Egyptian. And so they are in a much better spot because they go very far in, um you know, continental play and then apparently the Club World Cup as well.
00:35:32
Speaker
ah So the other topic I just wanted to touch on is how heading into this tournament. There was obviously a lot of attention paid to the expansion of the field, 48
Impact of expanding World Cup teams
00:35:45
Speaker
teams. And I don't want to pretend as if there's not going be some knock on effect down the road. Yeah. Well, you know, the the qualifying for the knockout round is clearly going to be impacted by this.
00:35:54
Speaker
But if you look at each individual game, I don't know that we've had a genuine dog. No. I mean, you could maybe argue that the Curacao Germany game got out of hand, but there was a good 30 minutes where that was a competitive, compelling game. Curacao gets the gold or provides this wonderful moment for Curacao fans.
00:36:12
Speaker
i and enough And you sure, you can talk about Sweden... destroying Tunisia, but they've made past World Cups, right? This is a team that's made much smaller fields. Yeah. you could talk Again, you could talk about the United States beating on Paraguay, but paraguine Paraguay was always going to... read They were second in the region, right? like Or a third in the region or whatever, right? They were ahead of Brazil, most importantly. Yeah. And so this has been, i think, a really compelling World Cup from a and here Uruguay just went final and they are and they tied with Saudi Arabia they tend to to reiterate the point. Right. yeah like I think that's another game that we I would have looked at today i was like, right, that's probably like a two goal win. But Uruguay's example being Cape Verde. ti
00:36:51
Speaker
Tying Spain 0-0. Incredible. Unbelievable result. Goalkeeper crying on the field, like game of his life. Yeah. Like you love a goalkeeper with one name, first of all. So that's just like a really good moment, right? They can be glamorous too. Like it's really been Dita. And then there's been like this weird little break.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I guess you have your Allisons, your Edisons, but like we do know what their last names are generally. So. um really good like i think it has caught me off guard and i think part of it is just the the general level of i guess what what you would have used to call in fifa rest of world yeah like in the video game series like they would always just get lumped in there that quality has improved a lot right and there's a lot more money going into that because of just the general interest of the sport it's for the economy there's also again club world cup continental play prize pools um it's marketable now some of these clubs can just go to mystery kits or whatever and say hey throw in 50 of these and suddenly you know you've got like this growing and growing right like it's fun it's good and I think it does make something like the World Cup even more special so I'm i'm still concerned about how the round of 32 is gonna go I feel like that's gonna be a real squirrely little bastard but like other than that it could be fun
00:37:59
Speaker
There's also some conversation to be had about what the purpose of a world cup is. and no one at this point is going to argue that the best soccer you're going to watch happens at a world cup. Totally. There may be incredible games, but if you want to watch the best of the best, you are watching club soccer.
00:38:23
Speaker
That is where the best football happens. You're watching yeah champions league. Yes. Yes. But even then you're watching the champions league knockout rounds, right? Because at this point it's not even necessarily in the group stage.
00:38:39
Speaker
And it is great that there haven't been any just, absolute dogs in any of these games for all there have been lopsided results. But going back to the Germany Curacao game, Curacao ties it one one and you could see how much it means to the fans, the players to see that happen. The fact that Germany goes and scores six more because their Germany and their Curacao played like Brazil. Yeah. Right. and
00:39:10
Speaker
like, it doesn't matter that Germany scored another six goals because Curacao scored one. and And, and I think you would ask any Curacao fan, would you rather have lost or lost one, zero or six or seven, one, they'd probably all rather lose seven, one than think zero.
Significance of playing against global powers
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. It goes back a little bit to, you know, the U.S. women's team against Thailand. Yeah. And the players from Thailand being asked after that game, there was all this discourse about the U.S. being disrespectful. Where they mean. And they the response player after player was, no, they gave us their best shot.
00:39:49
Speaker
Like it means a lot to get a global power's best shot in a game like that because it means they treated you with respect. yeah Yes. Yes. Yeah. And that's that's vital. Like that's where it's going to start to get worried. That's one thing when you have like a scoreless draw with Spain and gave her because that's just that's earned. Right. yeah But like if that had finished eight zero on merit, that's also earned. Right.
00:40:13
Speaker
and And you just don't want to see that thing where you've got and we're going to see a ton of this in the third round of of group games. i have no doubt like the hey, if we both draw. You know, like maybe the 45th minute first cooling break, we look at the scoreboard and we're going bring in our rotated sides and whatever. It's going to be miserable. Right. And that's going to be something people would have to figure out. Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe it won't happen. But I mean, I think there's a lot of I think that's where this starts to get more.
00:40:38
Speaker
stretch like yeah but for right now for right now for right now i am confident through the first two rounds of the group stage that we're probably going to get mostly pretty good soccer yep i'd agree i don't know how this stacks up literally against previous tournaments but it feels like there's been more open play scoring in this tournament than i remember yeah previous tournaments and there's there's only i think there's only been one penalty Good.
00:41:01
Speaker
I think there's only been one or two own goals. Yeah. they and they're and they're not ah you know And they're not ugly own goals. Right. It's not Omar Gonzalez against Trinidad, right? These are own goals where it's like ah the the pressure was on and if it wasn't scored by the Defender was probably going to be scored by the attacker. Totally. And I've been, I think I've enjoyed this tournament a lot. I like, look, there's, i'm not going sit here and say that all the criticism it got wasn't well placed and well earned. Yeah.
00:41:31
Speaker
But the reality is that, but Somehow, these stadiums are mostly full. Yep, that's the part that surprises me the most. That's been the most surprising. like yeah like The game that I thought was going to be the worst, like I really thought there might be only Lora Bowl fans, was Switzerland Cutter.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, sure. And it's the lowest attended game so far. I think they announced it at... two-thirds or three-quarters full. It was not that. like it was It had large swaths of empty seats.
00:41:58
Speaker
But there were way more fans than I expected there to be. The only game that really... and That one and then the the South Korea Chichia game were the only two games that had really visible empty swaths of seats.
00:42:11
Speaker
And like today at Lumen Field... seattle Seattle Stadium, they announced it at, you know, like a couple hundred short of a sellout. And that was a credible number. Yeah, I bought it at face value. It certainly felt like it was close to full.
00:42:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I will be very curious to see some of the games at Levi's Stadium. I mean, Levi's Stadium got a tough draw. And the the worst real tough draw. And the thing is, that's a universal opinion now, right? It's one that's been written about by like the the Chronicle out there that they kind of got screwed over with how the draw broke their way yeah and what was assigned to them. So I do worry that as you see some games like involving like Jordan or whatever, I wonder what kinds of crowds they'll draw. But beyond that, I'm with you, man. Like, and, and, and just to, to like the the broader point you were raising, like, I think some of this was always inevitable. Everyone's favorite part of a world cup is the world cup of it. It's not the, the prelude. It's not the announcements. Like, yeah, We have had a weird amount of advanced public comment from a FIFA president coming into this tournament compared to most like step bladder wasn't doing a roadshow necessarily trying to like get people really excited about his World Cups, right? They were the World Cup. They spoke for themselves.
00:43:23
Speaker
And so I think that if FIFA, they won't take this lesson, but if if I could impart one lesson to them, it would just be like, just trust your tournament and stop looking so desperate because all they did was give us a ton of material to work with. And like, I know that like within our newsroom at the Guardian, and like it was, it was just constant where it'd be like, that's ridiculous. Like, how do we not write about this? How do we not write about that? Right? Like they just kept, kept opening themselves up to it. And I just,
00:43:50
Speaker
I know there's no shame in society anymore in America, but like at a certain point, you've you've got to learn a lesson from that and rein it in a little bit. Yeah, I think the reality is FIFA is not going to stop scoring own goals. But once the tournament kicks off to unbelievable to both of your point, once games start happening, the tournament is about the game and the players and the fans. Yeah. and for all that there are still bad, terrible, shitty things happening. Yeah. The games have been good and the fans have been great.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah. And people want to watch. And I think that's one of the things that FIFA kind of gets like, to i guess maybe I don't want to say to their credit, but yeah, they yeah they do sort of, ah they understand that fans want this and they kind of have it.
00:44:43
Speaker
They kind of have the ace card, which is like, we have this tournament that everyone thinks is important and we're going to, and we're going to play it. i don't we don't I don't like it. I don't love that. But I will say that this I'm glad I was out here today. i am you know i would I would say that if you can afford it, it's worth coming out here. And honestly, I think it's really worth coming down to Pioneer Square and just being around the game. oh yeah like I walked around after and there were...
00:45:12
Speaker
Two hours after the game, there were a ton of people hanging out watching the the Saudi Arabia-Uruguay game. There was pickup games going on in Occidental Park. There were, you know, vendors were still out.
00:45:26
Speaker
It's a great scene. i can't really recommend it high enough to just come out and experience what it's like to have a World Cup in your city, even if you don't go to a game. And and I would say going to the game might legitimately be secondary to experiencing what this is all about. I couldn't agree more.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah. Whether whether it is at one of the big fan zones, a watch party, or if you and some buddies go to a or your local spot ever, man, let's just out it. Like yesterday, we watched a couple of games together, too, with Mark Kastner, and we had a great time. Right. Like, I don't know him. Who? Like it was it was excellent, though.
00:46:07
Speaker
But I, um I think, you know, it is an opportunity to embrace this much larger community that we all are part of. Yeah. Whether you go by yourself or you go with friends, know,
00:46:20
Speaker
you can watch the world cup at home and that is totally fine, but it is a wildly different experience that is so much better and more meaningful to do it in community.
00:46:32
Speaker
ah and I, you know, I think that's an important thing to do right now. Absolutely. Well, I think that's a good note to end on. So why don't we get out of here? thank you to Jeff. You can follow him on,
00:46:43
Speaker
Blue Sky. Blue Sky. What's your handle on this? Jeff Reuter. I'm not clever. at Dot Biscay dot social. i'm not clever is not in the handle just to be clever just to be clear that's just period can also read them at the guardian yeah that yeah that's the guardian in print too in print tomorrow yeah that'll be good that'll be fun that'll be good i had to text one of my friends who was in the crowd because i could not see the sky and i was like are there even clouds out there and he was like yeah they're high and hazy so i'm like i'm gonna use that so john marthaler thank you very much look at that the high and hazy clouds will be in print tomorrow nice If you haven't already bought yours or it hasn't arrived yet, you can also read Jeremiah and I in print.
00:47:22
Speaker
That's right right. That's right. Now, it's a little different since we put ourselves in and print. No, no, no. Still print. Okay, good. I'll take that. I buy it. No, let me say, like, the the first issue of this was fantastic. I haven't gotten to read the World Cup one yet, but, like, the quality of writing and that, the writers that you're able to pull for it really...
00:47:40
Speaker
delivered on that first one. And I thought it was just a tremendous, tremendous publication. um i wrote for Howler magazine before it it had stopped. And so I've always had an appreciation for these sort of kind of quarterly, like magazine style. And I think that there's a serious case of these in the landscape. So thank you for bringing those back genuinely. Thank you. And and keep them up. Take that that compliment.
00:48:00
Speaker
I like that. So if you're listening to this and you don't have an issue for you, you should go out and get one. Yeah, you should. five of them. Get five of them, sure. The four by five. Like Tim. ah Well, with all that said, I'm going to get out of here.
00:48:14
Speaker
Signing off for Jeff and Tim, I'm Jeremiah Shan. This is Nos Adietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, and we will catch you next time.
00:48:48
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.