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E047: The Yuba County Five
1.5k Plays5 years ago
Could the "boys" from Yuba County have been targeted by a stranger? OR, could one of them have viciously turned on his closest "friends"?
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Transcript
Introduction to the Mystery
00:00:00
Speaker
You're alone. You're cold and hungry. So hungry. When was the last time you ate? Hours ago? Days maybe? How long have you been here? You're confused. Life for you isn't like life for many people. You need someone to help you with most of the things that you have to do.
00:00:19
Speaker
and no one's here to help you this time. You're alone. Your night started out just as you had envisioned. You and your best friends were going to a basketball game. Since you played, you are excited to get a chance to watch from the sidelines and this was no ordinary game. This was UC Davis, your favorite. The night had gone well. UC Davis had won and now you are headed home for some much-needed rest before your own basketball game the next day.
00:00:44
Speaker
The trip home seemed normal until suddenly you were somewhere unfamiliar and it was snowing. Crash! The car hits the snow bank. You and your friends get out to try to push it free, but you're unsuccessful. You don't know what to do, so you start walking. It's so cold, but you walk and you walk. You walk until you're certain you can't go another step. Where is everyone?
00:01:09
Speaker
Where are you? Why has no one come to find you yet? Imagining a scenario like this one sends chills down my spine. To be lost and have no idea where you are or when or if someone's coming to find you, I can't imagine that.
00:01:24
Speaker
before our victims today. The boys, as they were lovingly called, this was reality. And sadly for them, their fakes were lost in the snowstorms that left them stranded on the side of the road. And hope of closure melted away with the spring sun. Our families are left brokenhearted, and we're left wondering how. This is the story of the Yuba County Five.
Podcast Hosts and Engagement
00:01:58
Speaker
So.
00:02:18
Speaker
Welcome to coffee and cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Alison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:02:34
Speaker
so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:02:56
Speaker
It is finally that time, Sleuth Hounds, the time when we get to find out the winner of our recent promotion. We've had several listeners enter, and now we get to find out who is the luckiest of them all. I'm so excited. Thank you guys so much for participating and sharing the podcast. Even if you didn't win this time,
00:03:22
Speaker
And I guess it's a little insight that we're going to do another promo like this soon. All right, Maggie, I want you to do the honors to spin the random name selector wheel. So do the honors for us.
The Disappearance of the Yuba County Five
00:03:36
Speaker
Now, before we spin the wheel, I will say we have not gotten permission from all of you to say your full name and I don't know if you want to.
00:03:44
Speaker
So, we are just going to announce the first name and the last initial of our winner. I think that's... Yeah, that's fair. Yes, safer. And we will contact you on Facebook about your $20 Amazon gift card. $20! Okay, alright Maggie, do you want to do the honors of spinning? Sure, here we go!
00:04:10
Speaker
anticipation. Yeah, it's building. I know. Oh, it's slowing down you guys. It's like a wheel of fortune.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yay! Our winner is Michaela B. Congratulations, Michaela. Please send us a Facebook message with your email address and your mailing address for your prize. And thanks again for everyone who entered. Keep listening for future chances to win and please continue to share our show with others. Stay together and stay safe, Sleuthhounds. Now, Maggie, I'm ready for your episode.
00:04:47
Speaker
Our story begins on February 24th 1978 when five best friends were headed to a UC Davis basketball game and seemingly vanished into the night. Okay.
00:05:01
Speaker
So, just a couple things before we jump in. One, you guys know I can't pronounce anything, so just a heads up, I'm probably gonna mispronounce some last names. Also, this incident, or this case, Allison, is very
00:05:18
Speaker
like it reminds me a lot of the dialogue. Okay, oh I'm excited already. So it's just a lot of just really weird things. Okay. So these five men or the boys as they were referred to by all their families suffered from either slight intellectual disabilities or psychiatric disorders. Okay, so preparing ahead of time
00:05:41
Speaker
for that to like understand maybe actions. Yeah and I do think it's odd to call them boys though like the boys unless they're like always hanging out like hey hanging out with the boys. And I think it was too partly they're just so like innocent even though they're men it just kind of made more sense. That makes a lot of sense too.
00:06:02
Speaker
As a result of their varying conditions, they each lived at home with their parents, and they met at getaway projects, which is no longer a thing, but it was an organization in their county for people, adults that had like mental or physical handicaps. So they met there.
00:06:21
Speaker
Now, we talk a lot about predetermined or underlying conditions when we talk about cases and this group of men were between the ages of 24 and 32. And like I said, they all were suffering from some type of disability or handicap and were part of this program. That doesn't necessarily mean I think some people have like
00:06:45
Speaker
kind of stereotyped people with intellectual disabilities. They were able to function in society. In fact, they all played on a basketball team together and some even held jobs. Two of them had their driver's license. So I don't point this out to you like to downplay what happened to them, but rather so that we can understand maybe why the things happen that happen, if that makes sense. So before we get too far into the episode, I'm wanting to introduce you to the boys in the story.
00:07:14
Speaker
So according to the article, the Mathis group from Yuba County, strange deaths on US mountains, Gary Mathis, who we'll talk a lot about, had schizophrenia and was on a bunch of different medications to kind of control the symptoms. One had a super low IQ.
00:07:36
Speaker
um some of them had even served in the army and like I said had driver's license. So I'm going to go a little bit into just kind of who each one was. Okay. So Ted Weir, 32 was employed for a while as a janitor and a snack bar clerk but quit after arguing with his family who thought that like his what they would say slowness was causing problems.
00:07:59
Speaker
He loved making new friends, but according to his brother, he, quote, lacked common sense. He once spent $100 on pencils for no particular reason. I mean, I get that. I would do it on pink pens. That's true. Allison's obsessed with pink pens. Or binder glyphs. Yeah. Or lots of things.
00:08:16
Speaker
So rather than, or I'm sorry, he would question instructions like as simple as just stopping at a stop sign. And when his parents' house actually caught fire, he stayed in bed watching the ceiling over him burn and told his brother to leave him alone because he needed to rest for the next day.
00:08:32
Speaker
And it actually had to be like physically drug from the home. So like, I guess unaware of danger around him. And like I think just really curious. Jackie Hewitt, who I also in several articles just referred to him as Jack, but there's another boy named Jack, so we're gonna call him Jackie so we can keep it straight. He's 24, or was 24. He actually was listed as the most severely handicap out of the group.
00:08:58
Speaker
He was slow to respond, but was the loving shadow of Ted and we, you know, who we just talked about. And Ted looked out after Jackie in like a protective sort of way. And like if he needed to make a phone call, he would dial the number for him. If he needed to write something, Ted was there to kind of help him because he couldn't read, he couldn't write, couldn't dial the phone. And he highly depended on his mother when he was home. And then Ted, who he'd known for about eight years when they were out and about in public.
00:09:28
Speaker
So he was really shy, he had a speech impediment, he didn't really like to be away from home for extended periods of time, especially overnight, but he did go places when his friends would go.
Profiles of the Five
00:09:42
Speaker
Then we have Jack, who is the last name I also can't pronounce.
00:09:48
Speaker
Okay, so we have Jack Madruga. He was 30. He was a high school graduate. He actually was also at one point in the Army. He was laid off in November of 1977 because he was a busboy, but they laid him off because he was unable to operate the equipment.
00:10:06
Speaker
So family members would later tell investigators that Jack was, quote, not mentally retarded in the common sense of retardation, merely slow in his thought process, end quote. And that makes me really sad. I feel like they should have found something else for him to do. I know! I don't think that, like, that makes me sad. A big company like that, I think you can...
00:10:26
Speaker
find places for people like that within your company. There's a restaurant that's, I'm not sure what town it's in, but it's called Bread of Life. And they employ people who have slight mental or physical handicaps to be the waiters and waitresses and different things like that. And I just think that that's really good because it's life experience and it shows people, like this person who you think is so different is not different than you. So he can manage his own finances.
00:10:56
Speaker
And like I said, he was a truck driver in the Army from 1966 to 1968, according to several things that I've read. And he and Gary, who we will talk about later on, were the only two in the group that had a driver's license. Okay.
00:11:10
Speaker
William Sterling, 29, was Jack's special best friend. He was described as deeply religious. He would spend hours at the library reading literature so that he could testify to patients in the mental hospital about Jesus, which I loved. Oh my gosh. Okay, so Jackie has Ted and Jack has William. Yes. Okay.
00:11:32
Speaker
So William had left the house the night that they vanished with his $15 weekly allowance. So that just again kind of tells you why they refer to as the boys. Because they're both just, they're also young at heart still. But then like obviously their parents trust them enough to like...
00:11:48
Speaker
you know, to be okay. Yeah, and like I think about, so for those of you that don't know, like my brother-in-law has cerebral palsy and he very much reminds me of some of the stuff that, or some of the ways these men are described because he is, you know, still heavily dependent on his parents and, you know, his family, but at the same time still has a lot of independence. Oh yeah, and I'm sure like, what need that? Yeah, and his mom and dad do a really great job of like,
00:12:19
Speaker
you know, letting him be as independent as possible. So I imagine this to be a very similar situation.
00:12:27
Speaker
So he had his $15. He had max of California. So the places that they were going to be and even cities like San Francisco. So he just seems like super planned out. He's got it. Yeah. So in the early seventies, he was a dishwasher in the air at an air force base, but his mother actually made him quit. And I think this is horrible because the airmen would routinely get him drunk and take his money. Who does stuff like that? Like, I think that's just disgusting on all levels, but especially for somebody. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:58
Speaker
And the Sterling's actually had a cabin near Bugs Lake, but he just wasn't a fan of being in the cabin, being in the woods. So he just never really went on any of their britches. Again, woods are usually dangerous places, so I'm okay not going there either. Bugs had to kill two spiders on my way over here today. That was enough for you. That was country enough.
00:13:22
Speaker
Gary Mathis was actually an assistant in his stepfather's gardening business. He was 25 and he was kind of like an outlier in math terms. It's like something that just kind of sticks out. So he was the outlier in their group and I kind of go into that.
00:13:41
Speaker
you know, later on in the story. But he was actually a singer in a local band at one point. He played football at his high school in the late 1960s and just circumstances during the late 60s and early 70s eventually took him down another path. He was an army veteran with a discharge
00:13:59
Speaker
that came after he exhibited behavior that he was addicted to drugs. A problem that he developed in Germany five years before, he actually was on several different medications used to treat his schizophrenia. Police records show he'd become violent on several occasions and was actually charged with assault twice, and I kind of go back into that later on, but after he returned from Germany, he would fail to take his drugs
00:14:26
Speaker
for his schizophrenia and he would lapse. And he was actually put into the VA hospital and his stepdad says that he, quote, went haywire. Well, I mean, drugs and mental illness don't go, well, illegal drug use. Yeah, they don't play well together.
00:14:45
Speaker
so according to the article out in the cold four mentally disabled men die in the woods but what happened to the fifth by bengie eagle quote they're almost inseparable meaning the boys they would pile around together go together they were described as kind of the studs of their community you know the special needs folks they were athletic very well liked very well respected law enforcement had no issues with them they were nice kids nice people end quote
00:15:12
Speaker
So that was one of the people that worked their case, how he kind of described the boys. So that brings us back to February 24th, 1978. And as I mentioned before, the group had attended a basketball game just some 50 miles outside of the town where they lived. The game ended around 10 p.m. and the group was set to return home.
00:15:29
Speaker
Which is kind of late for me. I don't like that. So the boys actually stop at a local gas station or kind of like a quickie mark. Top of business after the game to grab some snacks before they head back home. Totally understand. Yeah I mean I get that. Get some Dr. Pepper maybe. Some Sour Patch Kids.
00:15:47
Speaker
So several places I read verified this because the clerk actually told police that the boys had annoyed her as they came in right as the store was closing. So she was like clean. So they buy their snacks and they pile into the back of Jack's mercury and set off again. So we have Jack is driving, so not Gary. So remember those are the two that have drivers.
00:16:12
Speaker
So what's weird though, they don't drive south towards their home, those 50 miles away, they just go east. Do you think they just got turned around maybe? You know how sometimes, like you take an exit, like you need gas, or you've got to go to the bathroom, or you want to get snacks, and you're like, oh, here's a gas station, and then it's like down one road, but then it's like on the other side of the road, and then you're coming out and you're like, wait.
00:16:36
Speaker
I know. I mean I forget where my car is parked to half the time after like 10 minutes. The GPS is like turn west. I don't know which way west is. I have four running gets mad at me all the time because it'll be like in 700 feet and I'm like this is it, this is it. Here's where we turn and it's like on pass. So we have to turn around. So I totally get it.
00:16:58
Speaker
So maybe it's something simple like that, but they do go east. And Ted's mom wakes up at 5 a.m. to know Ted at home, and she actually begins calling the rest of the boys' families to see if they've maybe heard from her son, or they've seen her son. I'd be getting worried at that point.
The Night of the Disappearance
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. So when she finds that none of the boys are home, she starts to freak out. So you see, Allison, our boys' parents hadn't exactly been thrilled with the idea of the boys going to a basketball game.
00:17:22
Speaker
In fact, they tried to convince the boys to actually stay home. I know I mentioned that they all had basketball games the next day, which is true, but this was no ordinary basketball game that the boys were in. It was, in fact, a game for the Special Olympics. And the boys had a chance to meet the all-in-the-family actress Sally! Sally Stroggers! Yeah!
00:17:43
Speaker
Oh my, that's big! So it wasn't just a normal, just like, pick-me-up game. This isn't a special. I'd have been like, you need to get your sleep, you need to get a big breakfast, like if you're taking the ACT or something. Yeah. You know what I mean? For your number two pencil? That's right. Well, the one guy had plenty. That's true, because he bought up, he's been a hundred dollars worth. But he's got enough for the whole class. But I get why they didn't. But then at the same time, that'd be hard, because obviously you want them to have their independence, and you want them to have those experiences. And you do have to think, too, like,
00:18:13
Speaker
As much as we want to refer to them as boys, they weren't boys. They were men of. Yeah, they can make their own decisions. So, I mean, as you can imagine, the boys are super excited for the game and the chance to meet Sally. In fact, in one article I read, it said all of them had laid their uniforms out before heading to the UC Davis game. I love that. Which is precious. So, despite all the parents' tries, the boys can't be convinced otherwise and they head out to watch the Davis game with a promise they'll be home early enough to get plenty of rest for their big game that morning.
00:18:42
Speaker
But they never return home. In fact, it wasn't until February 28th, the following day, that police locate Jack's car. So in an article called True Crime, this is a terrifying story of the Yuba County Five. A man named Joe Shones actually alerted police to the location of Jack's Blue Mercury, Montego. And I actually read in another place that it said the car was found, like when
00:19:09
Speaker
like utility workers were coming by to like I guess count trees or something so there's two different scenarios how police were alerted someone found it someone found their car and let police know okay and for the purpose of this story we're going to go with joe so
00:19:26
Speaker
While the boys are missing, Joe actually has his own crazy scenario happen on the night of the 27th. So Joe first notices a Mercury when his car hits a snow drift. So it was extremely snowy on this backcountry road. And a couple things I've read almost makes it sound like a road that you just normally wouldn't travel on. Like you would need to be on that road like for a purpose. Like you're going some, like to a specific destination. You're just not driving through.
00:19:59
Speaker
Like I said, it's terribly snowy and his car's wheels get stuck. He actually tries to go outside to push his car out of the snow, but as he's pushing, he starts suffering from a heart attack. Oh my goodness, this is like one thing after another. So he makes his way back to his car to let the heart attack pass. Let the heart attack pass? Which seems nice to us now. I would be like. But again, this is 1978, so we couldn't really call 911 on a cell phone. That's true, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, because today I'd be like.
00:20:16
Speaker
Um, so
00:20:28
Speaker
freaking out yeah not like okay I'll just wait but I mean like I would be super freaked out to just be in my car knowing I'm having a heart attack and just hoping I don't die knowing that you're on this road that nobody else is gonna be on unless there's a purpose right
00:20:47
Speaker
So eventually, his car runs out of gas because he lets it... No! So he stays alone. And as he starts to get cold, he sees headlights in the distance. So there's hope. There's headlights pain. Okay. So he yells and yells for help, but no one answers.
Mysteries of the Abandoned Car
00:21:01
Speaker
And one of the strangest things about Joe's predicament was that he said that he saw a group of five men
00:21:10
Speaker
Okay. So we know that these men must have been the boys because Jack's car is down the road, you know, was found where he says it would be. Okay. But they weren't the only people Joe reported to have seen. He says that he saw a woman as well and also heard a baby's cry. And this is from the article I cited above. And this is in a snowstorm basically in the middle of nowhere. After 10 p.m.
00:21:40
Speaker
sees the five men and a woman and hears a baby. Yes. Okay. Yes. So Joe tries to get their attention again and they continue to ignore him. He says they actually appear to like try to conceal their presence because when he calls out they eventually shut off their headlights.
00:21:59
Speaker
So that's weird. Okay. So unless unless they're scared. Okay. See that's how I went too. So at first I was like, this is weird. But then I'm thinking about like, okay, I don't know what like mental like level they're on. But I think about like, let's say me when I was 16. Like if this had happened to me, I definitely would have been like, Oh my God, what's my mom going to say when she finds out like I'm never leaving my house again. My dad's going to kill me. I've wrecked my car, right?
00:22:23
Speaker
We're not going to be home for our game tomorrow. Yeah, I've missed curfew. There's no way for me to call my parents. So maybe all these thoughts are going through there. Or I would just be scared that the person who's yelling for me is going to kill me. It was just probably what I really would have been saying over and over. So, I mean, like I said, I would have been crying, certain I was going to be in trouble, and I'm sure that they may have felt the same way, and that is why they turned their headlights off, maybe to avoid the scene. That makes sense.
00:22:47
Speaker
So Joe eventually is like, okay, well, I guess I'm gonna have to help myself. And he hikes down the snowy road until he can get help. So the heart attack passes and he just goes like about business. This poor man. Joe is, I know. Poor Joe. So he actually makes it home safely that night. But when the police find the mercury, they are left only more confused. Oh no. So the mercury was slightly stuck in the snow. Wait, slightly stuck? Yeah.
00:23:18
Speaker
So not stuck enough to, like you can't get it out? Yeah, especially five healthy young men should have been able to, more than been able to push the car out of where it was. It wasn't like it was covered in snow. Slightly stuck. So what's more, the car has gas in the tank. So it's not like they ran out of gas and they have to walk somewhere. There's gas in the tank and when they hotwire the car, it starts up right away. So there's no engine trouble, they didn't run out of gas.
00:23:46
Speaker
and it wasn't stuck to the point that men couldn't push it back onto the road. The keys aren't gone, though, and there's evidence that the boys did stop at the convenience store for snacks. There's tickets to the basketball game in there. So we know it's their car. Yes, we know that it's theirs and that they at least went to the convenience store at 10 p.m., so we kind of have a little bit of a timeline. It kind of ends there, though.
00:24:11
Speaker
So both the police and parents are totally clueless. So what has led the boys here in the middle of nowhere? So this is like a national forest in California. So like I said, it's like rugged terrain. It's not just like you're driving down I-75, like this is in the mountains.
00:24:29
Speaker
They clearly, though, didn't feel lost because, you remember, they had maps. Because the one, I don't remember now who it was, had maps with him. He brought the maps. So they don't feel lost because the maps are neatly folded in the car seat. So they don't even take them with them. Unless they just didn't realize at this point that they're... I mean, I don't know what the terrain was like on their actual way home. If they go through, like, anything mountainous. Like, maybe they thought they were still. So maybe they don't know their loss at this point. Maybe? Maybe.
00:24:57
Speaker
So, it appears that the boys gathered their snacks, took the keys from the car, and headed off into the woods. Oh, I would totally take snacks with me too. I'm like, I'm not labeling these. I'm not labeling the Sour Patch Kids. But my question, I guess, is why take to the woods, why not walk along the road where you would be more likely, maybe for someone to be able to help you, and you know eventually you're gonna come to some type of civilization along the road, but they go to the woods.
00:25:24
Speaker
So the few roads making into Plumas National Forest are rough and bumpy and they are most frequently used by logger trucks or rescue vehicles for like
00:25:34
Speaker
if a hiker gets stranded or something like that. So again it's not like... Not busy. Yeah and it's not like a very well maintained road from what I picture. So yet the Mercury, which was a heavy car before a five-man climb inside, barely had any scratches on its undercarriage when they found it. Leading investigators to believe that whoever was driving knew the road well enough to navigate in the dark.
00:25:59
Speaker
So that makes me think that they're thinking it was not one of the five who was driving it. Right someone they think that well they know it's not Jack because Jack's parents say that he's never really been there but he would also never let anyone drive his car but the police say somebody had to drive the car that knew where they're going.
00:26:24
Speaker
So we're just kind of, we don't know at this point who it is. But that seems odd if his parents are saying he won't let anybody drive his car, yet it's clear that somebody was driving his car. Right, and he hates cold and hates camping.
00:26:39
Speaker
Police spent hours looking through the snow banks, but nothing turned up. In a couple places, I read local, state, and federal law enforcement agents spent more than a combined 6,000 hours looking for the five young men. Okay, I mean, that's a lot of time. So they, I mean, it's a lot of time, but they get even more desperate. They bring in a psychic.
00:26:59
Speaker
and a thing called a body witcher. What the heck is a body witcher? Well, I googled it and, um. I've never heard of that. Some really weird things came up, including the, like, series The Witcher, which I haven't seen, but I couldn't really find anything conclusive. All I know is that the body witcher had a magic rod, which I would assume is a magic wand, and pointed the police in the direction to go. So all of these, like, readings, the magic wands, Joe Siding,
00:27:29
Speaker
Investigators did not even find the smallest clue to point them in the direction that the boys took once on fit. Oh no. You know what that wand reminds me of though? Have you ever seen people, this is actually true. You take like two, I guess they're metal rods and you kind of point them toward each other but it shows you where water is underground like the rods come together. What? Yes, our neighbor did it and I saw it happen. The rods came together where the water was.
00:27:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Discovery of the Bodies
00:27:59
Speaker
Yep, they like stay apart, and then as you get closer to water, they like turn toward each other and they cross. I wonder what it picks up that it does that. I don't know, but I'll totally. We're gonna Google it. Yep. So they use dogs, horses, helicopters, and snow cats, and all of those lead to dead ends. So roads become more accessible as winter turns into spring, and the 15-foot snow drifts begin to thaw. Okay, that's huge.
00:28:25
Speaker
So their chances of survival, though, dwindle with each passing day. So this really is like the Dyatlov. Yeah. Identical. They're just gone. In the snow. Until this break again. There's no Yeti in this one. Oh. How about spontaneous levitation? No, that's not in there. Okay.
00:28:41
Speaker
Fireball lightning. So we go months without a single lead until on June 4th, a small group of motorcyclists out for just a Sunday ride smell something disgusting. Coming from the U.S. Forest Service worksite. So there's like a... Decomposition. Yeah. So about three miles southwest of Bucks Lake and almost 20 miles from where they find Jack's Abandoned Mercury. Wait, wait.
00:29:09
Speaker
So Maggie, didn't William, though, his family had a house near Bucks Lake, so maybe he was driving for some reason, because maybe he knew the area, if it's close. Or maybe he led them on foot once they got out of the car. Oh, yeah, because he could have said, I've been here once. Yeah, follow me. I mean, I would definitely, even if somebody said I've only been here once, I would still follow them if I had no clue and I'd never been here at all. Yeah, if I've been there zero times. Right, and then they know more than I do.
00:29:37
Speaker
So they actually stumble upon a 60-foot trailer with a broken window, obviously so someone could gain access, and any guesses on who that someone or some lens might be. So I'm guessing the boys were tried to gain access, or at least some of them did.
00:29:55
Speaker
Okay. So after several hours of clearing trees and debris from the road, recovery crews finally make it to the trailer. So besides the gruesome stench, team members found a trailer filled with food, supplies, gas, paper, candles, clothes, everything someone would need to survive a cold winter if you had to. But when they stumbled upon Ted's body, it was apparent none of those items had really been used.
00:30:25
Speaker
Okay, so I'm confused for several reasons. I'm guessing this trailer belonged to somebody else and then they just stumbled upon it. Well, I think it was the worksite. Okay. The trailer that they had. That makes complete sense. But then, I guess what confuses me though is that
00:30:42
Speaker
there's all this food and all these supplies, but they won't use it. And it just makes me think that maybe like their morals were like, these aren't our things. So even though they break into maybe out of necessity, they're not willing to steal. And I think that does make a lot of sense though, because I feel like
00:31:05
Speaker
someone who can't rationalize like it's okay for me to maybe like quote unquote steal this so I can stay alive right but if they can't rationalize that then they would just maybe see it as stealing and not like survival right because I think back to the one
00:31:25
Speaker
who I think it was Ted, I think, who... Oh, the one that was really religious and... No, well, where he was in the house fire and he, like, didn't know, like, couldn't rationalize to get out of the house even though it was burning.
00:31:43
Speaker
And so that to me is kind of the same logic, like maybe you didn't recognize, I don't know if starvation has anything to do with it or like warmth or whatever, but like not even enough to rationalize like I can use this and it will save me.
00:32:01
Speaker
Right, and now I definitely, I definitely agree with you. So like you said, remember that Ted wasn't one who was described as quote unquote, lacking common sense. And he was actually found under eight layers of sheets on a bed inside the trailer with his hands on his chest, which like really kind of freaked me out. Cause one, your hands are on your chest. So who's putting the sheets on you? Hmm.
00:32:26
Speaker
Okay, so both of his pants' legs were rolled up to well above the knee, revealing apparent blood poisoning and gangrene, as well as five toes lost to frostbite. How do you get blood poisoning? I don't know. I don't know, I didn't read anything that explained that. And the only reason I would roll my pants up... Well, if you have hypothermia, don't you feel hot, though? Oh, that's right, you do. I remember that from the dialogue past. So maybe that's why. Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
But then why the eight sheets? Weird. Okay. Strange. So if you're like me, you might be thinking, well, if he's been dead for a long time, of course those toes are gonna be raspitten. But he hadn't been dead for a long time. In fact, forensic analysis of his beard growth indicated that he survived about six weeks after going missing. During which time he shed about 100 pounds from his 5'11", 200 pound frame. Oh my goodness, so he was down to like 100 pounds. Yes.
00:33:25
Speaker
And all this food is there. But like we said, he's also the one who didn't recognize his own danger before. So maybe even though it doesn't register. Investigators find a brown leather wallet, a ring that has the name Ted on it, and a beaded necklace on the bedside table. There's also a yellow watch on the table that Ted's family said though did not belong to him. So maybe this yellow watch person put the sheets on Ted.
00:33:54
Speaker
That's so weird. Oh my gosh. It's almost like, and I don't know why this came to my head, but I wonder if like, it's almost like they said, okay, Ted, cause I don't know where the rest of them are. Obviously they're not in here. If they said like, you stay here. So if anybody comes here to look for us, you can tell them where we are. And then they go, I don't know. Maybe look for water. Right. Or to try to find something, but then obviously never came back.
00:34:23
Speaker
So according to the article I quoted earlier, there are actually 31 cans of food from outside storage locker that have been opened and emptied, but there were no fingerprints that they can make anything of on the cans of food. Another locker would have had enough meals for all five men to eat an entire year. So an entire year's worth of food left on a locker and opened. There was a propane tank outside the trailer that provided them with gas heat, also untouched.
00:34:54
Speaker
Y'all should see Allison's face. Oh, I mean I'm just it's so sad because it's like
00:34:59
Speaker
your help is right there. But then, you know, but then I think, you know, if I saw say now I know because of broadening how to use a generator, but let's say nobody had ever used one and then the power goes out in my house and here is a generator, but I have no idea how to start it, how to shift the power from, you know, the, um, electrical panel box and there's no right. And I don't know.
00:35:27
Speaker
Rodney told me a story once about a guy and he was in his Corvette with his dog and for some reason the automatic door unlock didn't work and he didn't know that there's a way to get out without that and he ended up dying in his car because the heat got so much. He was an elderly man and his dog
00:35:56
Speaker
because they didn't know how to get out. I'm just thinking as sad as that sounds and obviously I wish they had just opened that other locker and known, I kind of get it.
00:36:08
Speaker
Well, even just today, I came over to your house. I was trying to pump gas in my car at the gas station. Maggie texted me and said, the car is smarter than I am. So I was trying to pump gas. I go inside because I only had cash to pay $20 and nobody in the town that I live in wears a mask, even though it's corona time. And so I'm like freaking out over that. Then I get back out to my car and I'm like pushing the little door that's over the gas tank and it won't open.
00:36:34
Speaker
And so I called Anthony and I'm like, I just paid $20 in gas. I can't get the gas door to open. Like, I'm about to rip it off. I have somewhere I need to be. Like, I don't have y'all, I don't have patience. And so I mean, like, I don't... Did it eventually open? Yeah. And you know why? Because my car door was locked and the door to my gas tank won't open when my car door's locked. I would have never thought of that.
00:36:57
Speaker
And you know how I figured it out? Because I said, if this, I'm getting back in the car and going to another gas station. And when I unlocked the car, it was like, bing. And it popped up, and it was like, what's that noise? Yeah. And I was like, oh, OK, cool. Now I know. Yeah. So my car's smarter than me. Anthony says it so you can't steal gasoline. If you are smart enough to take the gasoline out of my car, you deserve it. Oh, like siphoning it out. You have to suck on that thing.
00:37:26
Speaker
Okay, back to the story. So investigators actually determined Ted lit a candle not long before passing away. I guess they can tell, by the way. It's fascinating to me that they know this stuff. Okay, so there's burnable wood, paper, found all throughout the trailer, but no evidence to indicate a fire had been started, despite Ted's cause of death being ruled as exposure slash hypothermia or something that they called wet lung.
00:37:54
Speaker
So we know he can light a fire because he can light a candle. And yet there's all this stuff that he could have burned. And he didn't. It's like he was using a candle to try to stay warm. I know, that's what a picture of my mind has said. So the food had been pried open with an Army P-38 can opener. So again, I go back to the fact that Jack and Gary would have been the only ones that really had experience using this because they were both in the military. But this is Ted. And we'll get to that.
00:38:24
Speaker
So Gary's sneakers are found inside, but Ted's sturdy leather boots are gone. Which takes me back to maybe they said you stay here, but hey, can I use your shoes because they're better out in the snow and it's rough terrain. Okay. Yeah. Like maybe they did a trade. Yeah. Or maybe he said, bye. I'm leaving you. Well, good. So where was Gary?
00:38:53
Speaker
Where were the other three? Where are Jack, William, and Jackie? Where, like, what happened that they got separated? They do seem inseparable. Right, and they're described as that. But I kind of, I kind of feel like, though, if Ted is here, I'm also wondering where Jackie is, because he's like Ted's shadow, you said. I know, like, he wants to... Those two definitely would not have been separated. Right, and so this is odd that Ted is here, but nobody else.
00:39:20
Speaker
So we actually do find Jack and William two days later and eight miles closer to the car but on the opposite side of the road leading to the trailer. Which leads me to believe that they went separate ways from the car.
00:39:37
Speaker
maybe like searching for somebody or something. So investigators still don't know what happened that led the group to go in opposite directions, but they somehow get separated. There's nothing left of William but bones scattered across the forest floor. Investigators were never able to determine what his official cause of death might have been. Jack's fate was much easier to tell. His body had been picked apart by animals and dragged to a nearby stream, car keys still in his pants pocket.
00:40:08
Speaker
Which then though makes me believe that he was driving because why else would he have the car keys in his pocket? Unless somebody else drove and he's like, okay, give me the keys. Yeah, sure. And the coroner's office does say that he died from hypothermia. Okay.
00:40:21
Speaker
So brace yourself for the next part. I'm about to tell you guys because it is a little heartbreaking to me. So despite police urging Jackie's father not to participate in the search, he says there's no way that he can stand idly by and he insists upon coming and he is so adamant about it that officials finally agree and it's actually him who finds his own son.
Theories and Speculations
00:40:43
Speaker
Oh no. So on June 8th, he spotted his son's jacket not far from the trailer.
00:40:49
Speaker
And when he goes to pick it up, Jack's spine actually falls out of the jacket. Oh no. Oh my goodness. And he was only identified by his teeth that were still in his skull some 50 feet away. Oh, and now, see, that is heartbreaking because I totally get where he's coming from because I would be there. I mean, I would be searching. Yeah. But then at the same time, it's like now...
00:41:13
Speaker
When he thinks about it, that's the image. Oh, yeah. Scars you for life. Just reading about it breaks my heart. I can't imagine actually like seeing it. So if you've been keeping count, we're now, we now know the fate of four out of the five boys. So where is the fifth? Wait, Gary, whose sneakers are left there. He is not here. Right. And to this day, we don't know where he is.
00:41:37
Speaker
Not a clue. So for months and months they searched for signs for Gary. Police began to speculate that maybe he'd gone off his medication. He might have had a psychotic break and led the boys to the mountain. We get into more theories here in just a second. But they put out alerts for Gary. They searched nearby psychiatric hospitals thinking maybe he's checked himself in or could it be a John Doe type situation. But they find nothing.
00:42:07
Speaker
So as I mentioned before, Gary was somewhat of the oddball of the spring group. He didn't. So it's kind of like, who was the dude in the diet love past that just kind of like joined in at the last moment? Oh, the one who Sasha, like he didn't know if that was his real name and he had the weird tattoos that we don't know the meaning of and all of that stuff. Yeah, so Gary is also new to this group.
00:42:31
Speaker
So the four have been friends for a really long time, and Gary, not so much. So he is the only one that didn't have an intellectual disability, rather just mental instabilities, and had spent much of his younger life, for lack of a better term, in an insane asylum.
00:42:49
Speaker
So he was first placed in a psychiatric ward as a sophomore in high school following a bad hallucinogenic trip. Oh. So he consistently used drugs throughout his service in the U.S. Army that was in the early 1970s until he received that medical discharge I mentioned earlier for paranoid schizophrenia. And the paranoid I feel that could be important.
00:43:14
Speaker
because if that theory is true, which I don't wanna put blame on him if it's not, and especially if drugs were involved, because they did just go to a college basketball game. So what if he did get something, bought something while there? Or even just given something, because I feel like sometimes people take advantage of people with mental disabilities. And then we already talked about how drugs and
00:43:41
Speaker
mental illness don't mix, and if he has paranoid schizophrenia, if he then starts thinking that
00:43:56
Speaker
I don't know. It's so many like just weird little things. So Gary actually had several run-ins with law enforcement which included battery of an officer and intent to rape for which he went to jail for. Actually like I think it was someone in his family walked in and the woman was like passed out. So he was later released he only actually served eight months of that sentence.
00:44:19
Speaker
His next run-in with law enforcement was that December, police had evidence that he visited a home of a couple he knew after shooting up methamphetamines and dropping bennies, which I did not know what that is, but that's apparently some type of tablet, just like a peel, I guess, I don't know. And he was acting erratically, which I assume that you would if you did methamphetamines. And talking about how he wanted to stab a woman in the jaw,
00:44:49
Speaker
So clearly when he does drugs, there's violent episodes that tend to follow. Yeah, he literally told this couple's three-year-old daughter, I thought I'd kill you once. I guess I'll have to do it again. And that's when they kick him out of their house and call police. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, clearly this man just
00:45:12
Speaker
his mental health just does not do well when it's on drugs. I don't think a normal person does. So he actually, they watch him banging on people's doors in their neighborhood, shouting, F the cops, your all mother Evers, until they, like police arrive and they arrest him.
00:45:31
Speaker
He was also in a slew of bar fights and had complaints to be prowling a local cemetery. Not the place I would be, but okay. So this isn't the end to Gary's antics. He actually broke out of a mental hospital and there was a couple instances where I read that he broke out of different things. Um, like he went through like a drain pipe and went, I believe, like, I mean, very crafty and very smart. Right.
00:45:59
Speaker
He was kicked out of his home and in one strange and scary incident, a Yuba County couple awoke to find Gary standing in their bedroom. And he had punched through the window, okay, so very similar to the trailer, unlocked the front door. So he'd done that before? Yeah. Okay. And was now, he told them, looking for a ring to return to Satan. Oh my gosh.
00:46:23
Speaker
That creeps me out. So when the couple asked why he was there, he said that he was in their house and that he was there to collect rent and find this ring to return to Satan. I'd be like, how much is rent? Here you go. Good luck finding your ring. We have no rings here. So Gary's path did straighten out after that. He started to consistently take his schizophrenia medication and he held down that job at his stepfather's gardening business.
00:46:51
Speaker
Robert the stepdad told the Washington Post, you know, that he had had that job and this was in like 1978. So he had straightened out by this time. So he had no like real contact with police during the years leading up to his disappearance. And the stepdad said he had not gone haywire in private during that time. Okay. So then he joins the getaway project and things seemed fine.
00:47:16
Speaker
Then a few weeks later, he disappears. So a few weeks later. So he's not known these four for years. He's known them for a few weeks. Oh. Right. So it's not like eight years like the other ones. It's a few weeks. So what's odd was that Gary had often talked to another friend about how he dreamed that he and his friends would one day go missing. Okay. That is like, I have goosebumps. That is weird. Coincidence or no?
00:47:47
Speaker
So about three weeks after the boys went missing, a Yuba County woman named Debbie Reese picked up the telephone when it was ringing and when she said hello, the other person said, I know where the five missing men are. And then he hung up. Is this woman related to any of them?
00:48:05
Speaker
So she's just a random, I guess, lady that I don't remember in the article. But that's enough to wear, like, you know, like here in Kentucky we have Brooklyn Farthing, like we talked about in our first episode, or we have
00:48:20
Speaker
Crystal Rogers and so like if somebody called you and they said I know her like you would call the police Yeah, cuz it's a well-known case exactly So the man calls back the next day Debbie said and this time says I need help cuz I really hurt those guys bad And when she asked who'd you hurt he said don't play dumb with me and hung up. Oh
00:48:42
Speaker
So this is like a confession of sorts. So they just dial a random number. But what seems weird though, is if you dial a random number, which it would be a random number in the 70s, right? Because it's not like you have somebody's phone number programmed into your phone, right?
00:48:57
Speaker
that the same person calls twice. I'm gonna need to think maybe it was she was like a friend if I'm remembering correctly from everything that I've read. So I don't think she was like super like in the circle but it would have been somebody that they would have at least known. That still seems weird to me. Don't quote me on that people because I really don't remember. Let's just say when we do these episodes we read through I'm talking like hours and hours and hours and hours of research and all these different articles and we try to like
00:49:27
Speaker
piece it together, and sometimes I'll be like, wait, is that what it's saying? Yeah, so it's a lot. So then there's one more call, and the guy says, those five guys are all dead. They're all dead, she asked. They're all dead, he repeated, and then hung up, and that's never called back again.
00:49:48
Speaker
Okay, so that also, hmm. So I think we can kinda rule out Gary in a way unless he knows to include himself in that. Right, and that's what I was gonna say. Like, this could say opposite things. Like, it could be, it could mean that Gary is dead too. Because whoever, this does sound like a confession, right? Or, you've said he's smart, he's crafty. Like, is he smart enough to say? Include himself in that. Right.
00:50:18
Speaker
so that way nobody suspects. I don't know. Well, the last update came in 2006 when a man named Mark Mathis checked yes on a letter from the sheriff's office to indicate that his brother Gary was still missing. And that's the last that we have. Yeah, and that'd be hard too, because I don't know if I would ever, if I didn't have evidence of death, and we talk about that a lot with families, I think it would be hard
00:50:48
Speaker
to say that they're dead when you have no proof that they are. Right, no proof either way. Yeah because I don't think I'd ever want to give up looking for them. No, no. So as you can probably guess there are lots of theories. Okay. So briefly we're going to talk about just a couple different ones that I read online and one was on the web or on the article spooky or not the Yuba County Five and they say quote, it turns out that Mathis meaning Gary
00:51:16
Speaker
had friends in the town of Forbes Town and police speculated that the men intending to visit them might have taken a wrong turn at Oroville. Just looking at the locations on a map, this makes sense. There's literally a fork in the road outside of Oroville with one road leading to Forbes Town and the other to the road where the car was found. And maybe the men headed further up the road because they thought they'd reached Forbes Town that way.
00:51:43
Speaker
That does make sense, but what doesn't make sense though is even if he had friends in this town, first of all the boys promised that they would be home early in that game. And they were excited.
00:51:58
Speaker
I don't know. So the last sighting of the men so some problems with this theory would be the last sighting of the men were just before 10 p.m. and according to Google Maps the drive from Oroville to Forbes Town takes like half an hour on today's road so probably longer in 1970 something so Gary and his friends
00:52:19
Speaker
Gary had his friends in Forbes Town when he'd be familiar with the route to get there. And I would think so. At least enough to know that if he was heading uphill into the forest, they were going the wrong way. Yeah, because I was going to say, well, if it's dark, I usually don't know where I'm going either. But you would see trees. And you would know. Until your car is going up. Yeah.
00:52:37
Speaker
So another theory that I saw states that they were followed. For some sports fans, and remember they had gone to a college game, I don't know how big UC Davis is, but some sports fans take that stuff really serious and emotions run a little too hot sometimes. Often there's alcohol involved.
00:52:57
Speaker
So could someone who is angry and possibly drunk have seen the five as easy targets? So could the boys have angered a fan on the rival team maybe? Some sort of altercation takes place and they're followed?
00:53:12
Speaker
Like on their drive back, that's kind of how they get lost because they're just trying to get away. And then even when the car wrecks, you know, they still flee on foot because they think they're being followed by somebody who's mad at them. I just think that's pretty sad if you're going to get that upset. Yeah. Like want to hurt somebody. Follow me. Yeah.
00:53:30
Speaker
Um, so another theory is the woman with the baby. Yeah, I keep going back to that because obviously Joe, poor Joe, I mean he's gonna remember that night because all these different significant things are happening. Right. And he clearly saw five. And we talk about that a lot, like things that are significant in your memory. Right. He clearly saw five men.
00:53:53
Speaker
Their car was working then, because of the headlights, but he clearly sees a woman. And here's the baby. Can you hallucinate when you haven't heard of that? Dad, I don't know. I have to ask Rodney about that one. He thought he heard a baby cry. That could have been something else, like something squeaky. Don't coyotes kind of sound like, I don't know, that's women yelling. No.
00:54:19
Speaker
I guess the woman with the woman could have been a man with long hair if he couldn't see very clearly, but there's clearly 60%. So maybe some say that she was running away from somebody and the boys pick her up after their trip to the gas station, which I feel like they're going to be trusting enough to do that, especially if she says she's in trouble.
00:54:45
Speaker
And then whoever she's running from follows them to get her back. Yeah, and they get kind of caught up in the crosshairs of her pursuer. Now that makes a lot of sense to me, actually. Yeah. Another theory is that the boys were poisoned, and at first not the type of poison that I thought, because I was like, oh, somebody put something in their drink at this. Right. You see, Davis came. But one interesting theory may explain why they left the car.
00:55:11
Speaker
so some people think maybe they were poisoned with carbon monoxide because the road that they were on was really bumpy and rough and then they said maybe like the tailpipe was blocked and they flee the car because I guess they can feel that they're like unable to breathe but then they said that
00:55:29
Speaker
Like the car didn't really have that much damages, but apparently CO poisoning can cause dizziness, confusion, and all kinds of other issues. So maybe they were just disoriented and that's why they make the choice to leave the car to seek help.
00:55:43
Speaker
I guess I'm torn on this theory because, okay, I get what you're saying about how it could be carbon monoxide because even in the snow, like snow could, well, I don't know, an exhaust is hot so that might melt it. It would have to be clogged by something else. Well, I've read though, even if you're like stranded in the snow, like how Joe left his car running isn't safe to do because you can still get carbon monoxide poisoning. But isn't carbon monoxide like the silent killer? Like I've always heard that's why you have to have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.
00:56:12
Speaker
because it won't wake you up. You won't... Yeah, but then I watched... But that's if you're asleep. Which Audrey Hepburn movie is it? Sabrina? Uh-huh. Where she decides to kill herself and she locks herself in the garage and she turns on all the cars and she's like coughing. So maybe they were to smell something. So another smaller, less talked about theory says that there were
00:56:41
Speaker
like several of their family members that said there's foul play involved. So they believe that they had encountered a town bully and this was someone that they had dealt with before. And somehow they were scared or forced into driving into the mountains. Again, sad that somebody would be like that, but okay.
00:56:58
Speaker
So there's even a rumor that Gary was beaten and thrown off a bridge in this encounter and that's why his body's never been found. So this is like a relative that came forward with this theory. She also claims that there were baby clothes in the back seat of the car, which goes along with Joe's, you know, siding or whatever, as well as shell casings. But I could not find that anywhere else that I read.
00:57:22
Speaker
I mean, again, it does make sense, and it could be if that theory is true, right? That that is why Gary's not there because he was killed someplace else, but then that person could have been the one driving the car, and it could have been somebody who did know the road well, but then I don't know why Jack would have the car keys in his pocket. Unless he made Jack drive it.
00:57:48
Speaker
maybe like he forced him right could have but then but then how does Ted get into the trailer unless he's running shoes are in the trailer yeah so I don't know if I believe this one ruling it out okay so then of course we have the theory that they all got lost and died at frostbite or were killed by animals and if you all listen to the diet law pass you know we're not gonna say that's how they died
00:58:11
Speaker
The last theory is one that I think we've all been thinking, that Gary killed the other four. Many think that Gary maybe had a break and led the others into the woods to kill them. I mean, he's talked about rings for Satan. He's had other types of breaks. But why would he keep Ted alive for so long? We know that he lived like six weeks.
00:58:34
Speaker
And then why would half of them be on one side of the road and the other half on the other? We know one was killed by a wild animal. I mean, it makes some sense. I'm like, that's where I think the majority of us want to go. But I still think it leaves a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of holes. Right. I totally agree. Cause like, obviously, I mean, if Ted's alive for like, what was it? Six weeks or something like that. She came over from the house with the feet growing out of them.
00:59:04
Speaker
Um but I mean that makes me feel like I wonder if Gary was there with him for quite a while too and maybe that's why his shoes were there but then again like I don't know where he would have gone. Also if you think about Ted lost 100 pounds
00:59:22
Speaker
Which means if Gary was there the whole time unless he was eating food and not, like, telling Ted he was eating food, he would have also lost a lot of weight. And I imagine if you've lost 100 pounds and you're now 5'11 and weigh 100 pounds, it's gonna be very difficult for you to really walk. Exert yourself, yeah, in any way. So I don't see him, like, being lost in the woods or eaten unless it happened early on.
00:59:50
Speaker
and maybe Ted's just left there in the trailer alone. Yeah, I really am confused about where Gary is. And we don't know. I mean, and like I said, obviously drugs and
01:00:06
Speaker
his diagnosis don't mix. But at the same time, if he had done drugs, eventually the drugs would have worn off. Right. And I feel like there would have been some realization if he were guilty of what he had done.
Reflections and Closing
01:00:20
Speaker
And I just don't feel like
01:00:24
Speaker
I don't know the incidents in the past it's almost like when he made those comments he didn't recognize how bad it was when he was saying it like other people had to like call the police or point it out I don't think that he would have been the one to like call Debbie and be like they're dead and like you know and like confess I don't know
01:00:45
Speaker
which I guess I probably should read up more on like mental health but I don't know people that have schizophrenia if when you have like a break like that how long it takes you to kind of you know calm down and realize like reality versus like what's in your right like I don't know what's real what's not yeah
01:01:06
Speaker
I'm super torn on this one. So y'all have to let us know what you think. When Joe saw headlights in the distance he felt a sudden sense of relief only to have it slip through his fingertips as he watched the shadowy figures disappear into the darkness.
01:01:22
Speaker
When Ted and whoever else was with him stumbled upon a trailer in the woods, I'm sure they felt relief. Maybe they thought someone was inside. Maybe there was a phone they could use to call for help. All those promising what-ifs soon fizzled out as they struggled to stay warm in the cold and to eat.
01:01:39
Speaker
Was it that the boys just did not know how to use the resources in the trailer to survive? Was it what Allison mentioned and they're just too moral to maybe steal? Or could there have been something more evil at work? One investigator said, quote, I have a total of over 50 years in law enforcement.
01:01:59
Speaker
It's a case that's never lost my mind. I often think back to that case. I very much regret that we were unable to find those children. And they were children. But I'm also convinced that we did everything in our power to locate them and find out what happened." I think we all feel the same now that we know the story of the Yuba County Five.
01:02:19
Speaker
How could we ever forget the story of five boys, five best friends who lived for one another and died with one another? I think our hearts will forever ache for the loss their families suffered. One gone is too many. Five gone is unimaginable. Until we have answers, we will always remember the boys from Yuba County. We will never forget the Yuba County Five.
01:02:41
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:03:11
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.