Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Supply Chain Connections. I'm Brian Glick, founder and CEO at Chain.io. Today we're talking to Brittany Kasky. Brittany is the Chief Commercial Officer for Logistics at DP World.
Speaker: She's been in the industry about 20 years, and we're going to get really deep into the importance of relationships, which anyone who listens to this podcast on the regular knows is one of my favorite topics and also what that means to different sales processes and sales qualification and technology and how this all comes together, but how it all really comes back to being tied into the customer.
Speaker: I had met Brittany before this episode and we clicked really well. So I hope everyone enjoys it. And without further ado, here's the episode.
Speaker: Brittany, welcome to the show. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. All well, let's dive right in Everybody has a story about how they got into this industry. So tell us why you got in and why you decided to stick around.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a really interesting story because i think most people who are in logistics never intended to be in logistics. They just found their way in and then never left because of the, I guess I could say the fun that we have in the logistics business. So for me, I graduated college on a Saturday and I started my career in logistics with UPS on a Monday. I just happened to be at a job fair as a senior in college and and walked past the UPS table, happened to meet someone that went to the college that I went to. And he said, hey, you should come give us an opportunity to show you what we can offer. So started UPS two days after college, did the dog and pony show for about a year, which means I was doing tours of UPS warehouses for prospect customers and had someone say, you know what? You're doing a good job at this. Is there something else you'd like to do? said, I'd love to go into sales.
Speaker: Boom, I was in sales and spent about eight years selling contract logistics services at UPS and then had an opportunity to lead the team that I was on as a director. And then the last five years at UPS, I spent leading a global team for contract logistics and transportation management. And then I've now been...
Speaker: at what I like to call the best kept secret in logistics. I work for a company called DP World, Dubai Ports World. I've been there for two years and I'm heading up contract logistics and freight forwarding commercial activities in the Americas region as the chief commercial officer. So a long run at UPS, almost 20 years, made a big shift, having a lot of fun working for DP World. But I think what's kept me in is just...
Speaker: The variability of logistics. No two days are the same. i really love the commercial side. I love working with customers. I love solving problems. So yeah, I don't think I was, I've been too busy to find something else to do. So I've never had the chance to sit down and actually ponder, what would I do if I'm not doing this? So I guess it's worked out for me.
Speaker: Well, that's okay. By the time we hang up, there'll be some other crisis and you won't have to think about it too much. I promise that. I'm seeing my team's messages going off while we're talking and I'm thinking, okay, there's a lot going on today.
Speaker: So that's actually an interesting thing that I think is unique, maybe not unique to sales universally, but unique to sales in this industry is you never really just leave the accounts, right? Like, especially on the CL side, you sell it, but, you know, if I sell someone a car, I don't see them again until they need to buy another car, right? And that's not what sales is in this industry. So, like, how do you think about...
Speaker: the relationships you build for a long time in order to get a customer, and then the role of sales and account management kind of post-sale. Sorry, that was like a super jumping in question. but like It's something that's always been in my head. Yeah. Well, it's probably one of the most important things to logistics and to selling in logistics is the relationship.
Speaker: My boss always says logistics is a relationships business. And I believe that wholeheartedly. you know I'm not just selling a product. We're selling a service. And that service is very pivotal to the success of a lot of the companies that we're working with. right If we're not moving... product and getting it where it needs to be at the time it needs to be there, that's impactful to their business. And so when working with customers, you know we're selling confidence, we're selling trust, we're selling execution, and that takes time. So it takes time to build up the credibility. It takes time to build up the trust that they know that we're going to do the things that we need to do to make them successful with their are customers. And you don't just walk away from that, right? I have customers that I sold to as a very junior salesperson that I'm still in contact with today. I don't do any business with them, but every so often I hear from them or they hear from me. And through that process, I've built a really big network. So I've built a network of people that I can touch back
Speaker: to if I need something, I need some guidance, I need some support, or maybe even you know go to talk to them about the new services that we can offer through the company that i work for now. But relationships are really important to me. And I think if you were to poll a lot of people that have worked with me, worked for me, customers that have done business with me, they would tell you that they know that when they reach out to me that I'm gonna help them, I'm gonna get things done. And I care about the success of them personally and their business.
Speaker: So you spent the first 20 years of your career in a publicly traded company that has quarterly numbers to hit, has you know very specific targets and margin targets and very numbers driven inside of that company. And now you're with a company that is really tuned to very rapid growth and acquisitions and lots of things going on.
Speaker: How do you create a culture inside your team that balances or or gives your people the ability to build those relationships in environments that are you know, short term also has to be there alongside the long term? like I had the pleasure of spending the first few years of my career in a very old private customs broker who was like, no, just spend 10 years with with the person and we'll sell them something. And we didn't have quarterly account review meetings like internally. So how do you do that balancing act?
Speaker: It's exactly that. It's a balancing act. You know, the company that I'm with now, we are incredibly aspirational. We're Dubai-based organization. And if you know anything about Dubai, it's big, it's grand, it's growing. you know, people in Dubai think that anything is possible, right? The sky is really the limit. And I love that. I love stepping into an organization is is willing to make deep investments for our customers, deep investments for our business and for our employees. And so, you know, stepping into this role, we have aspirations to double the business in three years and we want to become, you know, one of the top 10 logistics companies worldwide. The logistics side of this business
Speaker: is really only about 10 years old. Our organization started as a ports and terminals business back in the 70s. And we had a visionary leading our organization up until earlier this year who really wanted to diversify what the organization could offer and diversify how we could service our customers. And so that's how we got into the logistics business. So now we have this huge aspiration to be a large logistics player. We've made a bunch of acquisitions. We've hired top talent from our competitors, which is really cool to see to sit in a meeting and see all of these sharpshooters from all of these logistics companies in one place talking about how we grow this business. But at the end of the day,
Speaker: none of that is going to happen without the customer, right? So we can't lose sight of the fact that all of these aspirations only happen if the customer leans into the strategies with which we're deploying. And so, you know, I coach a lot to to my team It's customer first, right? What does the customer need? How does the customer want to buy?
Speaker: What's most important to them? What problem are we solving? And as long as we stay rooted in everything that we do is central to the customer, then we'll be able to achieve those ambitions. We'll be able to achieve those targets. So those customer interaction points, QBRs, QBRs.
Speaker: You know, how fast are we responding to customers who are emailing us or calling us? But, you know, we can't get lost in the noise of the numbers, right? Working for a publicly traded company. You know, sometimes we talked a lot about the financials and a little bit about the customer.
Speaker: Here, we talk a lot about our growth ambitions, investments, initiatives, and strategies for growth. But in both organizations, one thing, is pivotal to that financial success or to the growth of the company. And that's the customer. So, you know, stay rooted in the customer and you'll be able to achieve your targets no matter what they might be.
Speaker: So I'm at heart still a tech nerd, even though i always think of myself as a supply chain person first and a tech person second. But I've also been out on the road, right? Selling customers for a long time. And I'm curious, what role do you think the tech that companies bring as service providers still plays in what you have to do for a living and what you have to present?
Speaker: Well, I'm not a tech nerd, okay? I have a 16-year-old son, about 17-year-old son who can do circles around me on his phone, on his laptop. He knows...
Speaker: So much about technology that I feel like a dinosaur oftentimes. I was on a Zoom call last week and i kept saying, my camera's not working. My camera's not working. I don't know what's going on. I always say, you know, it was another IT t downgrade instead of an IT t upgrade because usually it, you know, totally messes with something. My buddy on the other end, he said, Brittany,
Speaker: At the top of your laptop, there's this little thing and you slide it. And I'm like, oh I already did that. i already did that. He said, now let's try it again. Put your hand up at the top and move it.
Speaker: And the little window was closed. Man, I felt so silly. But... You know, I'm embracing tech. I'm learning. i am a big fan of ai just in terms of productivity, efficiency. you know, I still encourage my team to question, right, what kicks back from AI. But technology is deeply rooted in everything that we do from, you know, customer engagement on the CRM side to operational execution tools. We've introduced AI to help speed up processes from A to z on the commercial side of things. and that process is just ever evolving. So as you know, tech companies and tech offerings are popping up every single day. And so about the time you get something, you do your due diligence, you source it, you implement it, you operate it.
Speaker: And everybody is now acclimated to using that tool. there's something better out there, right? So it's a constant evolution. And i think as a development arm of the organization, we've got to do a better job collectively making sure that people like me are being trained on these tools, right? It's one thing to give a team a tool. It's another thing to make sure that they're using it appropriately in the way that it's intended to be. And I think that's one area that I don't see a lot of investment as just technology teaching and technology development so that we can use all of these tools to the best of their capabilities, especially for us. you know we're You're very tech savvy. I'm not. We're probably about the same age. The younger folk that are coming into the industry, they're very tech savvy. And I love that. But there are still some of us you know older dogs out there that still got a good 15 more years in us. We could certainly use some help in making sure that we're adapting to these tools that are out there.
Speaker: We actually released a new product this year. And one of the things that I noticed, just to kind of reinforce what you just said, was... You know our core product is really a back office thing. It's only used by the IT people to help support EDI and all of this stuff. But the new product is used by operations.
Speaker: And one of the things that you are just spot on universally correct is that software vendors in every aspect of this industry from handheld device man manufacturers in the warehouse all the way up to, you know, big ERPs and TMSs have kind of come up in a world where you sold to the C-suite and then it didn't matter whether the software was pleasant to use or easy to use because it had already been sold.
Speaker: And so people are going to have to use it no matter what. But what I'm seeing from introducing a new product this year that was built with AI and by AI and has AI in it and all of this is as we've rolled this out globally,
Speaker: users are now able to kind of build around things that they don't like or find other ways to get their job done, which means the bar for being good is starting to shift. And, you know, I think when I think about bringing tech to the ship or the whatever we all call them, to the customer, your customer, right? From a 3PL perspective, it used to be, oh, if you can get them a report and you can get them a dashboard, they're happy.
Speaker: Well, now they can build the report in the dashboard themselves. You got to bring them something they love or it's not interesting anymore. Right. Like I can get you where your freight is or I can get you an inventory snapshot from the warehouse. It's not exciting from a sales perspective anymore.
Speaker: So it's not. And customers are demanding now. They want a lot of analytics, analytics, They want early indication of risks, right? Things that are happening in the world that, you know, for a long time, you're right. The tools and the technology were reporting what is happening or what happened. Now customers want to know what could happen. And they're looking for tools and systems and data analytics that give them that type of predictability so that they can you know make different decisions, reroute freight.
Speaker: They want to kind of crowdsource. you know What are their competitors doing? What are some strategies that other people in the market are deploying? And that's the type of information that we get a lot of requests for is how are we using our information to help people make different decisions from the onset instead of having to pivot in real time or just looking back and saying, well, we should have done something different.
Speaker: You know every year, whether it's at TPM or whether it's at the Customs Brokers Association meetings, whatever there's always a session. What's the role of X? What's the role of the 3PL? What's the role of the forwarder? How's it changing with tech?
Speaker: And I think you just hit on one of the big questions, which is how do you see the role of your company? Is it to... provide the facts or to provide the advice? yeah I know the answer is a little of everything, but I'm curious kind of how you would draw the map of like, what's the job that people hire? What's the job you're selling and what's the job that you think customers are buying from you? this I've read a couple articles and it's even in my LinkedIn profile, right? Supply chains don't break, they shift. and
Speaker: that's what we strive to offer. as supply chain subject matter experts here are solutions and solution variability and the ability to offer a different solution in the event that something is happening in the current supply chain that you know is incredibly disruption driven. You know, the geopolitical landscape in the Middle East changed a lot of how we work the last six months, right? Customers were rerouting freight. Everything into Dubai, for example, is predominantly imported. And so new strategies had to be deployed just to get products into the Middle East with the Strait of Hormuz being closed. And yeah For me, it's all about supply chain integration. We sell solutions routed in integrated supply chain from the port to transportation to contract logistics. And it's not just a service or a capability, but it's our ability
Speaker: to change all of that based on what's happening in the market, geopolitical situation, or even with our customers specifically. So it's selling variability in sets of supply chain solutions, in my opinion, that keep the supply chain moving instead of letting one of those disruptors essentially break the supply chain.
Speaker: I'm going to ask you, be careful with your answer to this one, but I still want to What is the, you know, we talk about all that stuff, right? Like dynamic solutions and this and that and the other. And then you go out and you meet the customer.
Speaker: And sometimes it's like, okay, that's all great. But you realize that the guy on your loading dock is still using a clipboard, right? Or what are the... biggest self-inflicted wounds that you see your customers doing to themselves on a regular basis that you just wish you could just be like, before you even call us, stop doing this?
Speaker: Oh, that's a loaded question for sure. it's a fun one. Yeah. And I'm going to take it up a level. I mean, there are certainly a lot of... tactical things that our customers are doing that are impeding the success of their organization, their logistics entity.
Speaker: I would say what's precluding a lot of customers from really maximizing the value of what can be achieved is just the unwillingness or fear of making big changes in the supply chain. Because the supply chain and the services that are offered within the supply chain business are so critical to the success of companies.
Speaker: And I think the fear of disrupting that or trying something new and it not working and not being able to get product where it needs to be at the right time paralyzes a lot of customers. And so, you know, they get into analysis paralysis mode. And before you know it, the solution that they were looking at a year ago is totally different now because of the market, geopolitical situations, customer changes.
Speaker: So I think a lot of customers limit themselves because they're just too slow to make a change. They're just too slow to change. and our job is to help them see what options are out there It's to help build confidence in that we can execute on those changes.
Speaker: We've identified the risk. We're helping them mitigate that risk. And then we're also helping them see the financial value of making that change. But a lot of customers, you know, put out a lot of RFPs and never do anything different.
Speaker: And I think that's doing themselves, their customer and their shareholders a huge disservice. So RFPs are a touchy subject for me because I think that a lot of RFPs that I've seen, and whether it's for software or whether it's for freight or actually I think CL RFPs are almost the most ridiculous things in the world sometimes.
Speaker: The idea that you're doing the RFP almost puts all of the vendors in a box where they can't actually be that helpful to you because they have to answer questions the requirements that you've already written down. I'm just like kind of curious. You triggered me. So now we have to go down this path. But like, you know, like, do you see the ah RFP that comes in from the customer as, you know, the thing to be filled out or the starting point of the conversation? Or you think I'm just completely full of it and I just don't like filling out paperwork?
Speaker: And of what's your, like, what's your feeling on RFPs? Well, listen, I'm in the service business and I know that to be in the service business, RFPs are gonna exist. And I realize customers are trying to formalize the process. They wanna put everyone on somewhat of a level playing field. I totally get it.
Speaker: One of your first questions today was about the relationship. And I think where strong relationships exist, That gives you an opportunity to step outside the bounds of the ah RFP and talk about what could be, right? A lot of customers are limiting themselves if they're putting a box around the ah RFP and you're only able to answer per the ah RFP confines. It's not introducing a lot of opportunity for creativity and a complete solution redesign or supply chain solution redesign. So oftentimes, you know, we'll approach it, we'll answer the RFP as prescribed, but we'll also say, well, here's another option, right? What could be in a world where the ah RFP maybe didn't exist or didn't exist in such a strict manner, this is what we would propose, right? So that we can do both. We can show what our value could be in a greenfield situation, not bound by the ah RFP, but also you know respect the ah RFP process. I know it's not an easy job for our customers to sort through pricing and responses, and they're trying to make it as straightforward on their side as possible, and i totally respect that. But
Speaker: You know, if we are only operating within the confines of the ah RFP, I would question whether or not we've got a relationship with that customer that's going to carry us forward in a productive manner, or is there really a compelling event? What's going to drive the customer to make a change if we're all limited to respond in a certain way?
Speaker: So. said like a true solution seller. I will tell you this. I'm a little more flexible now than i was in my previous place of employment just because of our growth ambitions. But You know, we had a really rigid qualification process where, you know, we didn't work everything that came across our desk. One, we didn't have enough resources to do it. And two, you know, if we were gonna put the investment of, you know, a five person team on a contract logistics ah RFP, that's a big investment, right, from our organization. So we really qualified these opportunities. Do we have a relationship?
Speaker: What is the value proposition that we can offer this customer? Is there really a compelling event for change or are they just benchmarking? And you know when we followed that really rigid process, it typically resulted in you know, pretty decent hit rate for us because we knew we were working deals that we thought we could win and the customer was motivated to make a change. And we had a relationship that allowed us to engage maybe a little bit differently. So I think it's important. I think you've got to say, is this worth my time, my effort? And can we win before you just start saying yes to working all these RFPs that are out there?
Speaker: This was actually a very hard lesson for me to learn in the now 10-year-old history of founding this company, because my first software company was HS Classification for Wearing Apparel.
Speaker: And hs Classification for Wearing Apparel, the qualification process is are you one of the 50 companies in the world that does enough wearing apparel to need a dedicated multinational HS Classification system in the year 2000? Right. Like, it's a small group of people, so...
Speaker: So so you where you didn't really qualify anything. Right. And when I started chain, you know, it's very easy. And i know this is so easy to do in freight, little harder in CL, but to like everything that comes in the door, you're like, yeah, I could get a box from Shanghai to L.A.
Speaker: i should be ah responding to that. Right. And. You know, 10 years into this, we've gotten much better and there's really no RFPs in what we do, but in getting inbounds and being able in the first call to say to somebody, you are never going to buy our software.
Speaker: Like I know what we have on our website is really interesting, but when you get to the end of this process, you're going to realize that you're an extremely low margin domestic trucker and we sell a very premium product at a Cadillac price and you don't buy Cadillacs, right?
Speaker: that's right You buy, you're going to choose the cheapest option at the end of the day and it's not going to be us. And yeah, the relief that we get from the customer when we have that conversation and say, we're going to save you the six months right now by telling you that you are not going to like us at the end of this if we go through this whole process because we're not going to budge on that price and you're not going to pay it. right and You're going to feel like we wasted a whole bunch of your time or worse, you're going to pay us. And then 90 days later, you're going to regret it and ask to get out of the contract. You know, the amount of resource that you create for your sales team by ah good qualification process and not burning relationships, right? Because that person's next job might be at the largest global freight forward in the world. That's right.
Speaker: There are people who see qualification processes as, don't know if elitist is the right word, but like, oh, we shouldn't ever tell a potential customer that we're not right for them. That's their decision. And there's other people who see it as like kind of almost offensive, like, oh, you know, you're better than us. But at the end of the day, I don't think there's anything that creates more resource availability for a sales team than not chasing bad leads.
Speaker: And I think customers appreciate that transparency too. They don't want their time wasted. But I always like to say, you know you can get it cheap, fast, or good, but you're never going to get all three, right? If you want it cheap, it's not going to be good or fast.
Speaker: If you want it fast, it's probably not going to be cheap. And navigating through that, I think is important. But all customers will tell you, oh, i you know I want the value and I want the quality and yeah, price is important, but I really want the value and the quality and I want to make sure i want innovation, I want all these things. And then what is the second conversation? It's onto the pricing sheet, right? And um I think it's a great question to ask the customer. What is your decision criteria right out of the gate? And if it's, I need the lowest price for X, Y, Z reason, well, let's talk about that.
Speaker: You know I think one of the things we've done differently over the years, kind of from our perspective, is we put that price out there much earlier in the process, right? And the more concerned we are that they might not be the right fit, the faster we get them to a number.
Speaker: Because everyone who says is where they're there for the value, okay. Awesome. I'm going to tell you right now that this competitor is going to quote you $2,000 a year, and we're going to quote you $250.
Speaker: How much are you here for the value? Right? Like, yeah yeah and then yeah yeah and they go, okay, you're right. I'm never going to go to my boss and ask for something that's literally a hundred times more expensive than this other thing.
Speaker: We go, okay, great. Awesome. It's just saved you 44 more phone calls. Well, but yes. but But what if you said, hey, you're going to pay me $50 but your customer, you're going to get your freight four days faster. Oh, without a doubt. You know, like, and then and then now you can take inventory out of your supply chain. So there's a balance sheet implication there where your cash is going to go up because it's not tied to them. So, you know, it's just working through that process with the customer to really determine where the value actually sits with them. And some of them, it's just a procurement person who says, nope, if it's $50 more, I can not paying it.
Speaker: So it's great to know, right? so yeah That's where the relationship comes in to be able to have that conversation. So I think I might know the answer to this, but I'm to ask you anyway. What's your favorite part of the job?
Speaker: It's definitely the customer because i love... Well, one, I love people. i love understanding people's stories, both personally and professionally. you know, people sometimes say, I feel like I've known you forever and we've had a one hour conversation. And I think it's just because I really enjoy people. And I also love coaching and developing people within the organization. It's the people side of 100%.
Speaker: That is very clear from our conversation. And we didn't know each other before today, but I can already tell that that is absolutely true. One last closing thought. What makes you excited for the future?
Speaker: Oh, like the future, like today, like five o'clock happy hour? or that that hey Hey, you know what? We're in the shipping business. That a totally valid answer.
Speaker: Oh, gosh. oh it Logistics is just such an unwritten If you're in a trade or, i don't know, you just, you see your future probably pretty clearly, but in the logistics business, who knows? Who knows where I'm going to be a year from now? Who knows where I'm going to be five years from now?
Speaker: i think the opportunity of the unknown keeps me really excited. I don't know what opportunities are going to pop up next week with my team. That's exciting, right? I love a good challenge. I love a good problem to solve. Who knows what next month is going to bring? So I think for me, it's just really is the opportunity, the excitement of the unknown of the future, especially in the logistics space that keeps me interested and engaged and excited about maybe the next 10, 15 years of being in this business.
Speaker: No, I will tell you, I've been doing this podcast for, i think, eight years now and quite a few episodes and the most common thread for those of us who have come into this industry who do not have parents in it or did not inherit the family business.
Speaker: is that excitement about the fact that every day is another problem to solve. That is the universal thread for those of us who love this industry. it keeps us all coming back. So I love that answer because it is...
Speaker: Absolutely. Like if I could go to all of these kids that are coming to the business and say to them, if you every day want to fix something that is broken, this is the place for you. And if that scares you,
Speaker: Don't even take that first analyst job because and well it's yeah. So 100%. So, Brittany, I appreciate this conversation so much. Every time I get to talk to somebody from a different aspect of this business, we learn how deep you can go on any topic, sales qualification or I have customs people on all the time that we talk about. Terror fools and all that fun stuff, too. So again, just this is just a pleasure for me. And I really appreciate having you on.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it was it's big fun. Happy to come back and talk anytime.
Speaker: Well, I promised you all that we were going to have fun on that one, and we certainly did. Appreciate Brittany's time and her insight and her openness about what are some of the things that we don't always like to tell our customers about how this really has to work in this industry. So...
Speaker: Again, great chat with Brittany. As far as Chain, we've been putting out a lot of new technology this last few months, and i would encourage everyone head over to the website. And we have a few videos down on the homepage now, really quickly explaining some of the AI things we're doing.
Speaker: We also did a webinar that you can see at Chain.io slash webinar, which is about 45 minutes of me and my team talking about our journey building with ai We don't try to sell you on our AI. We talk much more about the process of what we've learned in the last year and how you can apply that learning to building things inside your own company or even on your own desk if you're a non-IT person. So channel slash webinar for that one.
Speaker: And I hope everyone enjoyed the episode and I will speak with you next time.
