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Margie Shapiro on Culture, Tariffs, and the Future of Customs
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In this episode of Supply Chain Connections, Brian Glick speaks with Margie Shapiro, president of Shapiro, about leadership, company culture, customs brokerage, and navigating one of the most volatile periods in global trade. As the leader of a fourth-generation customs brokerage, Margie shares how a family business founded in 1915 continues to adapt to changing regulations, evolving technology, and the growing complexity of international trade.
The conversation explores how strong company culture helps organizations navigate uncertainty, why relationships remain central to customs brokerage, and how technology and AI can enhance, not replace, the expertise of trade professionals.
Topics discussed include:
- Growing up in a multi-generational customs brokerage business
- Why international trade is “one big puzzle” that changes every day
- Building and maintaining company culture in a fully remote organization
- How Shapiro uses intentional connection and employee engagement to strengthen teams
- Why AI will allow customs professionals to focus on higher-value work
- The importance of proactive communication during periods of regulatory change
- Helping importers navigate tariffs, compliance challenges, and supply chain disruption
- Lessons learned from modernizing legacy technology platforms
- The role of industry associations in addressing AI and compliance questions
- Why relationships and shared values still matter in customer partnerships
- The impact of constant change on importers and customs professionals
- Why curiosity, attitude, and “embracing the quirk” are essential leadership traits
Margie also shares her perspective on the future of trade compliance, the challenges surrounding AI adoption in customs brokerage, and why she remains optimistic about the next generation entering the industry.
About the Guest:
Margie Shapiro is President of Shapiro, a fourth-generation, family-owned customs brokerage and logistics company founded in 1915. She began her career in advertising before joining the family business, where she has held operational and leadership roles across customs compliance, customer service, and management. Under her leadership, Shapiro has embraced remote work, modern technology, and a people-first culture while continuing to serve importers and exporters navigating an increasingly complex global trade environment.
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Transcript
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome
Introduction to Margie Shapiro and Her Unique Style
00:00:05
Speaker
to Supply Chain Connections. I'm Brian Glick, founder and CEO at Chain.io. Today we're going to talk to Margie Shapiro. Margie is the leader at a company that shares her name, Shapiro. And while normally I try to come up with my own creative introduction for everybody ah for the first time ever, I'm just going to read the description on the website because I think the culture of Shapiro comes out really wonderfully in her introduction on their own website. So Margie is the quirky Queen Bee. She loves to travel foreign films, loves to laugh and loves to list her lists of lists.
00:00:43
Speaker
ah While no one can quite keep up with her, she finds a way to help us and inspire us with a warm intelligence and boundless energies. So
Margie's Journey into the Family Business
00:00:51
Speaker
we're going to talk a lot about culture today. We're going to talk about customs stuff and its impact on people's mental health and how all of that comes together. So i really hope you enjoy the episode.
00:01:08
Speaker
Margie, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. ah So let's dive right in. There's a couple of canned answers this question. I think I know which one you're going to use, but how did you get into this industry?
00:01:20
Speaker
I'm pretty sure I didn't consciously choose it, ah but it was always part of my life. My grandfather started the business in 1915, and my dad got involved when he was, I
Embracing Challenges in International Trade
00:01:32
Speaker
guess, around 20. So it's it's just been part and parcel of our family.
00:01:36
Speaker
I grew up hearing conversations around the dinner table about customs and ships and and things that fell off the ship and airplanes and customers. And actually, one activity back in the day used to be putting canceled checks in order. So it's just part of my blood. But then i tried to resist. I went into study marketing in college, and I went into advertising for a little bit.
00:01:59
Speaker
And my father lured me back in, so I became the branch manager of our new Philadelphia operation. So I worked on the operations side. I got my license pretty quickly. I worked closely with entries, with compliance, and with the customers.
00:02:14
Speaker
And I guess despite my quest to stay out of the business, it pulled me. And there's something really satisfying about solving the puzzles. And international trade is just one big puzzle where the rules change every day and are really changing every day now. Yeah.
00:02:31
Speaker
The more I learned, the more I realized that the industry isn't just about moving freight. It's helping businesses grow, helping products reach people, helping companies navigate this ridiculously complicated regulatory world. So I fell
Fostering Company Culture at Shapiro
00:02:44
Speaker
in love with the challenge, never really looked back, and here we are.
00:02:47
Speaker
So you, I'm sure you've had opportunities to step away if you really wanted to, like in that kind of vein of those, that kind of constant challenges, is it kind of that stimulation that you think drives you that sort of gets you going the like every day it's broken? I always say for me, it's every day the business is broken all over again and you have to go fix it. And that I couldn't do it otherwise. Is it kind of that same, same energy for you?
00:03:14
Speaker
I think it's two things. I think it's that. I love making order out of chaos, but I also love the people. you know Global trade connects every culture and every country and every industry.
00:03:25
Speaker
So I could be talking to anybody under the sun. Every day is so different. But just to navigate the new tariffs and to help our employees try to figure out problems. to come up for the solutions with our customers. That is so fulfilling for me.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, and now you have the changes in technology and the geopolitical changes. It keeps you on your toes, it keeps you challenged, and it keeps you engaged. So one of the advice that, generic pieces of advice that I hear all the time is that you shouldn't be too in the weeds as an executive, but it sounds like you love the weeds.
00:03:58
Speaker
How do you balance being a boss, an owner, and also doing the fun part? That's a really good question. I do love being in the weeds, but I also so appreciate it. work with the smartest and the best people in the industry, so I love being challenged by them.
00:04:14
Speaker
And I love when they say to me, we got it, Margie. We got it. That's fine. It's the kind of culture that we've established where it is all about collaborating together and all of us getting our hands dirty.
00:04:26
Speaker
And I think that's why we've been successful with all of these challenges that we've experienced over these decades. And we've experienced a lot of them. The reason we've excelled is that we're just all in it together, all trusting one another.
00:04:39
Speaker
How much of that culture is conscious and how much of it evolves on its own? Like, is culture a thing you decide on and then build or is it a thing that happens? How do you approach it?
00:04:51
Speaker
It is so important to me. i'm It's just like, I want people to feel good. i want people to feel trusted. And it became particularly relevant, I guess, when COVID hit and we had to figure out how we were going to operate.
00:05:07
Speaker
And we went to work remotely. And that could have been a challenge to our culture, but it wasn't. We've come up with solutions of staying connected and ensuring that we continue to have fun together and support one another, but also have life outside of work.
00:05:24
Speaker
So now we are fully remote. We have employees all over the country. And i want to continue to create that environment where people can do that meaningful work and continue to learn and continue to have fun together and continue to support one another.
00:05:38
Speaker
Besides PDFs getting emailed instead of throwing paper across the desk, kind of what's something specific that you had to do, like to get through that transition with the culture intact?
00:05:49
Speaker
They call me the queen bee. I can't explain that. But there's a beehive, this group that comes up with things just to keep us together. So we have book groups and we have the team channel play.
00:06:00
Speaker
We just tried to deliberately engage with one another. We did wine tasting during COVID time just to make sure that we just all had fun and we remembered each other and stay connected.
The Role of AI and Technology in Shapiro's Future
00:06:10
Speaker
And there's a lot of people kind of scared out there with all this new technology. And it's, know, we're going through yet another round of a lot of change. You and I both saw typewriters come off of people's desks and people saying, oh that's going the end of me, right? Like, right how am I going to survive in this business without a typewriter?
00:06:28
Speaker
How are you managing your team through kind of embracing some of these new technologies? and Or how do you feel about it? I happen to think we're entering one of the most exciting periods our industry has ever seen.
00:06:41
Speaker
And we've seen a lot. I know that people hear AI and assume it's going to replace people. I don't see it that way. I think AI is going to eliminate that repetitive work um'm so that our staff can spend more time thinking and advising and solving what really matters, the complex problems. And there are complex problems that algorithms can't answer yet.
00:07:02
Speaker
Trade regulations, as you know, are becoming more complicated. Last week, a whole bunch of stuff was released that suggests that's not going to change. So our importers and exporters, they need partners who understand compliance and risk and technology and strategy. So to be able to move away from processing the repetitive work is helpful so that we can focus on what really matters.
00:07:24
Speaker
I'm also excited about the connectivity systems. Once operated independently, are finally starting to talk to each other. We always had that dream. But that will create visibility and transparency that just didn't exist before.
00:07:35
Speaker
They're interesting and fun times ahead. What are your customers asking for? Like, what's top of mind for them? I think relationships. We target customers. a guy My sales team um jokes with me about this, but I say, go find customers that share our values.
00:07:49
Speaker
It's really all about relationships. So I think customers want visibility, they want analytics, but they want to be heard. So it's a question of how we achieve that with a balance.
00:08:00
Speaker
So no matter what happens or how we evolve with technology, we're never going to lose that relationship component. That's who we are. That's our core. What's the most fun for you right now? yeah I love the variety.
00:08:12
Speaker
i love being able to gil when a new um challenge comes out from the government, trying to figure out, first of all, understand what they're saying. think You must be very excited right now. oh my God, am I excited.
00:08:24
Speaker
But we put the material together. We try to gauge from our customers what they want. We try to turn it into layman's terms so that it's not overly complicated or corporate. And then we try to to build the platform to make it so that it's easy to understand. And we are there to answer the questions because there's always questions.
00:08:43
Speaker
Customs can make things very, very complicated. And we're here to kind of unravel what they're trying to say. So one of the things I remember from working inside a brokerage was, you know, you have to speak kind of several languages at once, right? Because you're, you know, the direct day-to-day contact has this very mechanical kind of, okay we need to get the EHS code straight, or we have to get the duty rate straight, and what have you. And then there's sort of this other relationship you have with your customer, which is you know The import manager has to explain to the CFO what's going on or why, or they're mad about something that can't do anything about. like
00:09:22
Speaker
Do you guys think about how to talk to the customers at those different levels? Yeah. Is that all day, every day? I'm almost like, feel like I'm trying to explain the just the water we live in, but is that something that's been harder lately? And it's so obviously, i I got out of this before a lot of this new change, but like, are you able to distill this down simply, but still get it to those right audiences?
00:09:47
Speaker
I think my answer is going to be, I think maybe we're approaching it a little bit differently. We're trying to look at communications more proactively so that when we see something come out, we want to anticipate what the customer's questions are going to be.
00:10:00
Speaker
And then we have the answers almost canned. So it's helpful that there's something that you can refer to that really spells out what's going on. So the questions are fewer, but we become more available.
00:10:15
Speaker
We are always available to answer those questions. We also are really focused on proactively cut and conducting webinars. And again, in anticipation of those questions, but there's a Q&A at the end of it where we're very engaging. We collect those questions. We purpose those questions with the material back to the customers.
00:10:35
Speaker
We post those questions on our website. We try to keep our website very current and very detailed and also very fun.
Adapting to Regulatory Changes and Collaborations
00:10:43
Speaker
I guess so it's more of ah a continual dialogue than it it is getting a call saying, where's my freight?
00:10:49
Speaker
Where would you want to take if there was a little bit less of this noise, let's say? Yeah. Where's the real opportunities for them? Like, what would you be doing if we weren't changing the tariffs every 24 hours?
00:11:01
Speaker
I think I would be more involved in just going out to the importing-exporting community and trying to explain to them how there are companies out there that really want to partner with them.
00:11:13
Speaker
We are a company that's focused mostly on the mid-sized importer and exporter side that I feel like over time has not gotten the attention that they should because of all the consolidation in And there's so much opportunity for these companies and there's so much nuance in what's going on in the government right now that I think they could benefit from being heard and the collaboration on how we can help improve their supply chain.
00:11:38
Speaker
What do you think the role is of in getting those things heard of like the brokers associations and like the... apparel and footwear associations and like all of these different groups that we participate in are they helpful are they less able to be helpful with the you know the way the things are now are they more helpful just i'm i'm curious because i love all the people there but I would say that the associations with whom we are engaged are helpful, especially when it comes to all of these releases, these new regulatory orders. They help to outline what's going on and There's a lot of regurgitation of what we get from customers' messages, but it's restated in a little different way. And they also serve as they're available to lobby the government if something doesn't make sense.
00:12:27
Speaker
As an example, I just approached them and i hope that they will come through with this. But when you talk about Chapter 111, the brokerage regulations, and you talk about AI, the question is, are we protecting our customers' confidential information by using Claude?
00:12:44
Speaker
Is there any model of Claude or any subscription of Claude that is in compliance? And is there any that's not? I don't think that they've addressed that yet. I do think it makes a lot of questions with AI and the regulator you know what's appropriate.
00:12:59
Speaker
It's something interesting as ah as a tech company, especially coming out of the brokerage side, because I can go to two different customers and hear 180 degree different interpretations mainly to serve whatever purpose the person I'm talking to usually wants to serve with them. But you're right. There isn't a very clear picture there of like, oh, well, if I'm on a corporate license, does that mean I'm okay? or you know, do I need every importer to sign off that, you know, they're using the tool or can I not use it at all?
00:13:27
Speaker
Right. So like there's, you know, and that doesn't even get into whether it's doing customs business or not, which is a whole nother can of worms. So with tech. Actually, there is a ruling out there about the customers business line in the stand, but there is nothing about. I read every word of that one and I'm still not sure.
00:13:47
Speaker
So on the tech side, you've got a bunch of tech people who listen to this. You've got me here and I'm one of your vendors. What do you wish the tech companies would do better to help you?
00:13:58
Speaker
Oh, wow. Now's your chance. but I know, I know. Maybe stay current with, like, as an example, the Consumer Product Safety Commission has changed their regulations.
00:14:10
Speaker
Just to be proactive with solutions before being presented with the puzzle. So that would be what you shouldn't have to ask is, I guess, is the. the I would like them to be ahead of it.
00:14:23
Speaker
I also think that there is a tendency and I'll speak just tech in general, that sometimes people think everybody speaks the same language. And i do feel like the same in the vein of how you're suggesting that we try to to drill down for our customers and translate what customs is saying.
00:14:39
Speaker
It'd be great if tech people understood that everybody doesn't speak tech. And say, those of us who do both, I can fill a room with acronyms faster than maybe anyone in the world. Right. You put an incoterm next to an XML tag and all hell breaks loose. so Now that's really insightful.
00:14:58
Speaker
So you guys have gone on kind of a tech journey. Oh, how great. What have you learned over the last, you know, kind of the several generations of tech that you've had through your career?
00:15:09
Speaker
We had a system, we'll call it a platform. We loved it. It was built in, I think, in 2000, and it served us really, really well until Liberation Day.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I think, despite the fact that we were trying to get off of that system prior to Liberation Day, so I think we recognized that loving something isn't always the reason to keep it, making that decision to modernize was Tremendous.
00:15:35
Speaker
It required an incredible amount of trust and effort from the team and from our customers. And we survived it. Not only survived it, we came out stronger as a result of it. So it was a big lesson.
00:15:46
Speaker
Tech moves very quickly. It moves so less quickly back in the day. And I think that I will take the blinders we're on and I had to look up a little bit and say, wait a minute, there's tools out there that could serve our customers, our employees and our whole product a lot better.
00:16:04
Speaker
I talk to our forwarding customers about every customer that they visit tells them how unique their supply chain is. And at the end of the day, they usually are putting boxes on boats and but the boats move across the ocean and then it gets delivered to a warehouse. And it's the details are sort of really in the grand scheme of things. It's 1%.
00:16:23
Speaker
Do you think it was kind of a similar thing where you overestimated how much of it you had to do yourself? Now, I think it was pride. And I think that when we built it back in 2000, I mean, it had bells and whistles that nobody ever thought of.
00:16:39
Speaker
And I think we lost sight of what everyone else would think or how we could do things a lot easier. And it was a very expensive lesson, but i regret the pain and the suffering. I mean, this was through COVID. And then we finally launched right when ah Liberation Day struck. So there's a lot of healing as a result of this. It's a big lesson that I will never revisit.
00:17:02
Speaker
Well, sorry for making you revisit it, Ben. so No, I mean, you know, i and't it was lesson learned. yeah I can laugh about it now. You know, there is a thing there that we see all the time, right?
Welcoming New Talent and Future Predictions
00:17:12
Speaker
Which is, i don't know that it's always that our customers, it's that that they don't want their baby called ugly so much as like there's a real sunk cost fallacy sometimes.
00:17:22
Speaker
Absolutely. and like, you know, we've put so much into this. If we just put a little bit more into it, it'll be right where we need it. And then it's always like one step out of reach. Yeah, all it took was that functionality of the stacking tariffs where it said, okay, you win, you win, we're moving, we're moving.
00:17:38
Speaker
Sometimes the future comes up slowly and sometimes it walks up and slaps you in the face, right? There you go. ah So what are you guys investing in now? What's exciting you on your customers' behalf?
00:17:49
Speaker
The next generation is what's exciting me right now. I'm just really thrilled about the people that are are joining the company that, you know, as I said, we're fully remote. So we now have people available to join the company from all over the country.
00:18:03
Speaker
So they're asking different questions and they're challenging those long-held assumptions like those automation systems. So I'm excited by them. also have a lot of boomerangs, employees that leave and come back. I mean, like a lot of boomerangs, maybe 25 to 30 boomerangs.
00:18:17
Speaker
So it's exciting what they've learned and they're bringing back home. So I don't know. That's really exciting. I'm excited this little family-owned company that's 111 years old can still reinvent itself.
00:18:29
Speaker
If there's one metric of of how good is a culture, it's how many boomerangs you have, right? Yeah. I'm so fortunate. I work with the best people in the industry. That's wonderful to hear. Give me one prediction about something you think is going to be different in a year.
00:18:45
Speaker
i think that the whole tariff regime is going to get particularly, i want to use the word ugly, it's just going to be different. We've gone through a lot of iterations of IEPA, Section 122.
00:18:59
Speaker
Now this Section 301 is going to be directed at 60 countries. It's going to be a very challenging year for importers. What can they do to be a better customer to you?
00:19:10
Speaker
Pay attention and we will be as over communicative as we possibly can and as timely as we possibly can with correct information, with a lot of webinars. But pay attention and take it seriously because I do feel like this it's ah an environment of enforcement and it's going to be an environment of a lot of complicated regulations.
00:19:29
Speaker
I would imagine that there's... quite a few people out there in your customer base who just at some point they just get exhausted right and they say to whatever happens will happen i can't deal with this today kind of vibe is that yeah i'm surprised that as many customers stayed around during you know the reciprocal tariff era where those tariff rates were so high i mean i just i'm surprised that they hung around i don't know it's it's really getting challenging make sure you do things correctly I kind of get the impression when I think about the actual humans at the importer, right? yeah
00:20:02
Speaker
That there's kind of two different people who are affected in different ways. like there's If the tariff was going from 3% 3.1% to 3%, every day it changed.
00:20:14
Speaker
There's a group of people where the the number doesn't matter. And then there's another group of people where goes from 3% to 63%. And it matters a lot, right? Even if it only had, like, I'm guessing i'd like, the desk level, at the day-to-day, like, the people who are getting ground down, it's the quantity of change, not the size of the change. Is that a thing? like I think it's the quantity and the pace.
00:20:37
Speaker
Yeah. The pace was a killer. Now, because of 301, it has to be a more timed piece because you need approval. But with the reciprocal tariffs turned on with the stacking and the rules and the degree of of tariffs, that was brutal. I don't know that it'll be that brutal because there is that time that you can at least plan a little bit.
00:20:59
Speaker
But even now, and from a supply chain standpoint, you're seeing front-loading to try to beat the Section 301 tariffs. are Are
Advice on Building Positive Company Culture
00:21:06
Speaker
you sending your employees the courses on how to become therapists yet? I felt like that was a big part of the job.
00:21:13
Speaker
said That's what that big with the wine tasting um online wine tasting is all about. That's a reasonable way to adjust the regulatory environment. There you go. hit this Well, Margie, it's been so great chatting and I really appreciate you coming on. I'm going to ask you one last question. Just if you're talking to someone who's starting a company today, what advice around culture around, you know, kind of how to think about building a team is this kind of rule number one for you?
00:21:46
Speaker
I would say go for spirit. Attitude is everything. Attitude and curiosity and commitment and quirk. Embrace the quirk. We all need to have fun.
00:21:58
Speaker
But to me, attitude is number one. Realness is, I guess, number two. Awesome. Well, again, thank you so much for being on. It was a pleasure chatting, as always. It was great
Episode Conclusion and Chain.io Updates
00:22:09
Speaker
chatting with you, too, Brian. Thanks for convincing me.
00:22:15
Speaker
Thanks so much to Margie for that chat. You know, it's great to me when you can talk to a leader who really lives the culture that they're trying to bring and you can really see the sincerity and everything Margie had to say.
00:22:27
Speaker
On the Chain.io front, just a couple of quick updates. Really encourage everyone to take a look at what we're doing at checks.chain.io, which is our new product that is really helping a lot of our customers understand how to take complex SOPs and really difficult compliance and customer specific rules and tie those back to their TMS in a way that not just reduces labor, but especially improves the customer satisfaction ah really keeping a coach next to your employees to help them
00:23:05
Speaker
improve their quality and really meet your brand promise to the customers. So check that out at checks.chain.io. And as always, I'm Brian Glick, founder and CEO of Chain.io, and I will speak with you next time.