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Ep #3 Coffee Expeditions: Dave Harcus - Wildlife Photographer & Firefighter
87 Plays6 months ago
Join us on this exciting episode of Coffee Expeditions as we sit down with Dave Harcus, a retired firefighter turned wildlife photographer. With over 28 years of experience in firefighting and a passion for capturing the beauty of the natural world, Dave brings a unique perspective to the intersection of adventure and artistry.
In this episode, we delve into Dave's incredible journey from battling blazes to photographing breathtaking wildlife. Hear firsthand accounts of his most memorable moments on the front lines of firefighting, and how those experiences have shaped his approach to photography. Dave shares the challenges and rewards of wildlife photography, and the conservation efforts he passionately supports.
Grab your favorite brew and join us for an inspiring conversation filled with gripping stories, stunning imagery, and a deep appreciation for nature's wonders. Whether you're an adventure enthusiast, photography lover, or coffee aficionado, this episode with Dave Harcus is sure to captivate and inspire.
Check Dave out on Instagram @daveharcusphotography and on his website daveharcusphotography.com
Check us out on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Spotify, and Apple @coffeeexpeditions
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
ah um um
00:00:08
Speaker
Okay, we're live. This is episode three of the coffee expeditions podcast. I've got my good long time friend, knowing each other for I think like 33 years. that like ah Dave Harkis, who's i'm looking forward to this conversation. He's a retired firefighter. Talk a little bit about that, of course, and a wildlife photographer. ah Dave, if you don't mind just maybe introducing yourself for the for like audience and then we can get into some questions and answers and all that. Yeah. I'm Dave Harkis. I'm a retired firefighter out of Maple Ridge, retired in 2019.
Photography as Therapy
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, and then I've been doing photography, oh, probably since the 70s. But after I retired, I really so jumped into doing the, you know, putting more effort into doing my photography there and and starting to you know, grow it and, and improve my skills. And so, yeah, I, I love it. It's my, uh, therapy, I would say, you know, after the 28 years of the fire service, it's, uh, yeah, I, I found that it's.
00:01:28
Speaker
therapeutic to be able to just get out and yeah spend time in nature and absolutely yeah grab grab photos while we're out there. So yeah, that's my my gig. Yeah, i know that's that's you know why I wanted to have you on. Obviously, we've known each other for a long time. So I'm excited to get together because we don't see each other very often. We started in Maple Ridge, volunteers together, I think in like 91. Yeah, that's right. and um And then, of course, you do your wildlife photography, which I've been following on your Instagram for, you know, a kid, you know, like like three to five years at say minimum, and really enjoy it. And personally, I've always admired wildlife photography.
00:02:07
Speaker
I kind of dialed with the idea of trying to get into it but I've never pursued it personally just because I've got other hobbies that I've been doing but I love the idea of getting out and um getting into nature trying to find animal in its you know in its natural habitat and getting those great shots it's almost like I really like going somewhere with a purpose or if I'm hiking having a purpose like kind of the coffee expedition things just kind of been nice because that goes somewhere to try to make a cool cup of coffee and see the outdoors so imagine like do you find that with wildlife photography that it's Is something along that lines where you have sort of a purpose or is it more ah just overall an enjoyment?
00:02:45
Speaker
Well, I've gotten to how I basically started was, you know, when I retired, shortly after I retired, COVID hit. Right. And, you know, we all got locked down. yeah And so I was sort of stuck at home. And um at that time, you know, my My partner, she was work, you know, she's in the fire service and she was working. My son was in the fire service. He's working. My daughter was in nursing, nursing school at the time. So, and my daughter-in-law was a nurse. And so all of, you know, my, my main concern at that point was their wellbeing, you know, dealing with COVID and.
00:03:31
Speaker
you know I found myself staring at the TV, at the news and listening to all the carnage that was going on. and the and I could feel myself spiraling down that rabbit hole of, know I got to do something different. um so I took that opportunity at that time to you know jump
Learning and Improving Photography Skills
00:03:57
Speaker
back. you know jump And not that I had left photography, but I really jumped into it back into it. right
00:04:06
Speaker
And I built, so i I just, you know, every time that we went out, we would take the dogs out for a walk down, you know, we went to an area and in ah North and ah almost in their pit lake. Yeah, I love that area. And there's a ah march there that it's about a five kilometer loop. And so we'd take the dogs there and we'd do our walk around. There was nobody around. So I just and i brought my camera and tried to take photos of whatever that was around. you know There was lots of ducks and harriers and eagles and stuff. yeah And so I just start taking photos of it.
00:04:52
Speaker
and then Um, you know, i go come back home and I'd look at them and I'd be like, you know, this one sucks. That one sucks. Um, and I really, at that point. really started to focus my attention on trying to improve my skills. And so, you know, instead of watching the news, I'd look at YouTube, try and trying, to trying to learn, trying to learn things. So I would find people that were bird photographer. So I'd start looking at theirs, I'd start playing with Mike. And I really went, it's funny, I went,
00:05:33
Speaker
I sort of relate it back to the job. um I started to build, you know, if I made a mistake, I wanted to know how I could not make that mistake again. yeah So I built, you know, processes, yeah so that, you know, I'd be out and, you know, give you an example.
00:05:57
Speaker
We were going to go out for a walk with the dog, so grabbed the camera, we went out and as we were driving down the the road to go to the marsh, I saw a bear yeah in the in a field and I'm like, I could see where it was going and I knew there was a road. um like a little gravel road that to get closer to that that he's heading to I'm like okay great so we spun around we drove down we went through this area we pulled up to the up onto this gravel road and just as we got you know i got out I was all set just as the bear came up I go to take some photos of it
00:06:39
Speaker
And I got no memory card in my camera. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so common, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm like, ah you know, I was so like, it would have been a perfect shot. It's coming up out of the bush. It would have been a beautiful shot. I could see it. Yeah. So I was so pissed. So, you know, that I, from then on, it was like, I have to build a, you know, I got to make sure. So, you know, now. yeah If I come come home, I take the card out, I've put a new one in. You've got procedures now. Procedures. A hundred percent. Yeah. Or you're you know going out, you you know you're halfway around, the you know you're at the two and a half kilometer mark and I was on your battery dies.
00:07:24
Speaker
And batteries are back in the car. Sure, yeah. yeah so It never fails, right? mur's law right Yeah, so you you know I just started to build things. It was, okay, i got know I got to know that I have my stuff ready to go. So I build these processes that you know I built. I i wear a um like a harness. cot It's called a cotton carrier and I can clip my camera in. so I'm hands free. each tree yeah And then if I see something, I can grab it and fire away. So I i bought a pouch and I zap strap it to my cotton carrier and it's got two batteries in it. yeah So yeah, I'm never without a battery. So you're you're dialing in, you're dialing in your process. And like, that was one thing. So like, going back to like, when we started in Maple Ridge, I'm like, always say I'm indebted to you and and and all the other Maple Ridge firefighters that helped me because I was a young kid.
Family and Firefighting Legacy
00:08:22
Speaker
18 years old, started in one. I can then kind of move to the west end, the whole three there. And it it absolutely changed my life because it gave me more confidence. It also gave me the ability to kind of like dream a little bit to get into the fire service because you know, coming from really nothing. Like yeah you like you know, paint living like I couldn't even, I remember when I first moved out on my own like at 18, I couldn't afford a case of beer. yeah So it was like just struggling to survive but you and and the other guys were just such great role models for me. right And so, But it also going back to like learning and processes and that and like you obviously you were a training officer ah guys would teach me you know how to how to do things how to you know how to like be able to be prepared for calls. And that not only carried over to when I you know started getting to career profession but it's carried over to other like ah you know fun
00:09:12
Speaker
hobbies in my life. right Of course, I've refined it along the way. like I bring up Jiu-Jitsu a lot because Jiu-Jitsu really took that to the next level right because it's just such a serious endeavor that you're dealing with. And then when I started teaching, I you know taught for two and a half years or whatever. It had had to be dialed in because I had like and pro and semi-pro fighters in there. So I had to really know what I was doing. I had to have a process to get that that to get that sort of you know sorted. um I want to get back to the wildlife photography for sure. I've got like so many questions, but what brought you into the fire service? And the one thing that struck me is like how much your family's involved in it. Like your, your, you know, your son, your partner, uh, but your dad was also involved too, right? Yeah, my dad was a Vancouver firefighter. And so, yeah, I grew up in, you know, uh,
00:10:04
Speaker
going for drives into Vancouver to go to the hall because back then. you know, payday, you had to go to the hall, pick up your check. Sure. Yeah, right. Yeah. So we'd go to the hall, see all the trucks, see all the trucks, climb the trucks, slide down the pole, ah you know, you know, check everything out, the smell, yeah because it's, you know, yeah everything smelled like smoke. Yeah, and yeah. are You know, look at the, you know, climb on the trucks and check things out. And
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah. So it was, it was quite a, yeah, it was just something that i was like, you know, if but had my dad had been a plumber, I would probably have been a plumber. Sure. Yeah. It was part of your life. Yeah. So I, but the problem was, is that when I was in grade seven back, I grew up in Burnaby. So at the elementary school, they'd bring in the And the the nurse into the classroom like once a year and they did the eye test. So you were in the ah where we would hang up our jackets and and and shoes and they'd put a eye chart at the end of the. great yeah
00:11:25
Speaker
And they get you to stand there and read the chart and I'm like, I can you i can't see anything. So they give me the note, give this to your parents. So I bring it home to my parents and they were like, okay, so next thing you know, I'm at the eye doctor. and oh yeah And I can, to this day, I can remember ah putting on my first pair of glasses. and I was like, looking around the the the ice, you know, the eyeglass store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, holy cow. I can't believe what I'm... Is that right? So it was it was that remarkable of a difference. Oh, it was really unbelievable. Wow. Like it was this instantaneous like a holy cow. I replied. Wow. So went from like kind of blurry that you didn't know was like you just lived we live with it. And then all of a sudden, everything's crystal clear. Everything's crystal clear. Wow. totally cool So and I didn't think anything of it like
00:12:20
Speaker
Okay. No, I work last year. Yeah. It just becomes part of your yeah thing. Right. So i work i mean if you look back at like my, like your school or, you know, um, school books, you know, like the, yeah, it was a progression of go googly eyes along, but, um, yeah, but I got to, I think grade, I think grade 11 and my dad was like, okay, so what do you want to do when you, you know, get out of school. Sure. I'm like, I want to be a firefighter. Yeah, he's like, I got some bad news. He goes, you know, unless you can read an eye chart without your glasses. Yeah, it's not much I can do. He goes, I can't. That's that's been just heartbreaking at that time, especially she being like a teenager and kind of set on it. Yeah, it
00:13:14
Speaker
It did floor me because yeah, I had no, like I really had no clue what I was going to do. Like, um, yeah, I was, I, I struggled with it for a long time, trying to figure out like, Oh, what should I do? What should I do? And, you know, I bounced from, you know, odd job to odd job sort of thing. Um, and, uh, I ended up working. My sister and her husband, um, you know, talk about the fire service. My brother-in-law was a firefighter and he worked for the provincial government. So the like, uh, Tron Kiel, which is in Kamloops. It used to be a hospital for children. It was almost like, uh, uh, woodlands. Right. In, in New Westminster. Yeah. And so they had their own fire hall.
00:14:09
Speaker
And so he was a firefighter up there. So I went up there and I got a job at the hospital and dealing with basically adult ah males in a, basically in a house. okay and Your job was just to, you know, get them up in the morning and make sure they got. Make sure they're on the right track each day. Yeah. And they were all basically self sufficient. Like they, you know, they, they could take care of it. It was actually a lot of fun. So I, I was there for about.
00:14:45
Speaker
six months, I would say. Okay. And then I got homesick. So I i came back home. And then I applied to Riverview. Yes, that's what I remember you were in Riverview. Yeah, so I, I got a job at Riverview. And I started on the wards on a locked ward. So ah Riverview at that was for people with mental illness. yeah And they had the ward that I was on was all, it was like 30 male patients all there because they either were aggressive or would try to escape. There was always issues. All kinds of, yeah. And so I was up on that ward for, God, six or seven years. Okay, yeah. And, well, maybe not that much, but
00:15:43
Speaker
Anyways, five to six years, I was up on this board. And it was interesting times. Like, I bet it must have seemed like I had a lot of problems to solve and and make situations to deal with. Yeah, and it was. and I never really realized sort of the stress that was there. Sure. Yeah, that'd be that was young and then you know, like, you know, somebody if a fight broke out, you just jumped in and you dealt with it. Yeah, and you're kind of you've been brought into that year. That's just kind of what you're doing for a job and getting accustomed to it. Yeah. yeah ah you and There also wasn't a lot of talk about things like PTSD back then. ah No, if not all. No. And so I got moved off that ward to another ward. And it was a low keyword, easy going patients, no issues. And I always was
00:16:36
Speaker
I always found myself with my back against the wall, scanning the room and I was just like, on hypertension, my yeah um just ready to, you know, so who's coming for me? Sure. sure he have no Yeah. And it took me took me a year or more to realize I was, yeah, they're not these guys aren't here to kill me. Yeah. Well, that's good. So it kind of became a little bit more Yeah, more a little less heightened sense of ah not awareness but um danger like they're not too bad like in terms like you got a little more accustomed to it then. or Yeah, that's good. So anyways, I was on that one for a while and then I moved I got a job on
00:17:21
Speaker
Riverview grounds are 240 acres Okay, so it's a huge property and they have a fire service to you I thought they did have a fire service did Richard pretty Richard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was he well He was a cook at Riverview and volunteered at the hall up there, right? Okay, and But they did have a career firefighters. That's wrong one truck on duty there so I yeah and So yeah, the the grounds are huge and the there was actually a transport department. So because all the buildings were all spread out, the transport would
00:18:05
Speaker
There was an escort that would go pick up a patient and then there was a driver that would drive us to appointments. Okay. So I got a job in in transport and I was and we had a security car. Okay, so the security car where there was two of us in the car and we just patrol around the property and then if anything if somebody went missing or if there was a fight somewhere, there' be the ones weing we were the responders. right on That was actually probably pretty interesting at times, I'd imagine. Oh, it was six it was fun. It was, again, it was back to that, you know. Yeah, hyper awareness. Hyper awareness. But i what I learned from Riverview was how to treat people.
00:18:48
Speaker
Right. Really. and Yeah. Because you've always had a great demeanor. you I remember like you were so kind to me when being a young guy, kind of mature and crazy. ah You know, ah starting at 18 years old, you were awesome. And you always had a great demeanor with all the other guys. I remember that distinctly. We were we were lucky. We had a great group. Yeah, we did have a great group. We really did. I mean, we were very lucky to the people that, you you know, that we came on with have all been amazing and emergency services really, or most every, ah all of them have been, I think. Yeah. Yeah, so i i I learned how to, you know, deal with people and try and um what's the word deescalate situations. Because I really didn't want to get into a fight. Right. But, you know, so they will I, I built up that rapport with how to deescalate some situations because yeah we had no, we had no
00:19:44
Speaker
Like we had a car that had like a police screen in it, yeah but we didn't carry handcuffs or anything. It was just basically if we had to get somebody, we had to grab them, throw them in the into the car okay yeah yeah and then drive them to their building. If we needed more people, we'd have to get more people to come down and help yeah yeah bring them back to the ward.
00:20:06
Speaker
File answer. Yeah. So anyways, I, I, I was on that and that was probably the the area that I was working in when I joined the fire to department. And, uh, so it gave me the opportunity to, cause my shifts were, uh, you know, because back then we all had to be shift workers to get hired on with the fire departments. I worked, uh, for four on two off. And it was day shifts for a month. And then it was night or afternoon shifts for a month. And yeah, so I just, I worked that for a long time. And then I, ah when I, I ended up becoming sort of like the emergency
00:20:55
Speaker
I wouldn't say manager, but sort of somewhat of a manager of emergency management for the hospital. Oh, I see. Yeah. And, uh, and that, that was quite
Hospital Emergency Planning
00:21:07
Speaker
interesting. And especially when you're, you know, trying to educate some, some of the higher ups about some of their plans for the hospital. Sure. Sure. And, uh, it was an eye opener cause. Yeah, every year we had to do a exercise to show that we were ready to go ready to go to the major problem. And is that more like fire or Yeah, whatever. It could be anything but mostly we were dealing with with fires. Yeah. ah But so the my manager, my boss, he was ultimately and responsible for emergency planning. Okay.
00:21:51
Speaker
And he'd be like, okay, we're going to do an exercise. You know, I've got it all planned out and, uh, I can't tell you what it is, if but, but yeah I want you to have this many staff available. I want these many vehicles available. I want this building for success on the day of the, uh, I'm like, come on, man. Like this. you know, yeah, and it's like day shift when you have, ah you know, 100 people around not nice nine in the morning in the morning when there's only, a you know, two staff on. Yeah, so it was that was interesting to the challenges and you're trying to try to risk management and yeah well then trying to educate him like,
00:22:36
Speaker
Uh, like that one time they wanted to, one of the building mounted, you know, this lady that was in charge of one of the buildings. She was sick and tired of staff coming in. different entrances. yeah So everybody had a key to to get into the building. right yeah So you'd unlock the door and go in. And I guess somebody had left the door unlocked. And so she's freaking out. And she's like, okay, we're gonna change all the locks. And they can only come in the front door.
00:23:07
Speaker
And I'm like, I go, well, that's not gonna work. We're not practical, I would think. hi go here's I let me just throw a scenario at you. you know So at two o'clock in the morning, you have a fire and the staff start to evacuate the patients down the stairs yeah and out that door that you just changed the locks to and the door closes behind them. Right. Now, how do they get how do they get back up to the ward? Now they go to have to go through the front yeah and go up the stairs. I go, but what but happens if that's where the fire is? Yeah, for sure for sure. And they look at you like, oh, shit. Didn't think of that. Didn't think of that. yeah yeah
00:23:54
Speaker
They'd never change the log. So I felt good that, you know, at least I yeah solved the problem. Well, that's a big part of like those kinds of situations. You're trying to try to brainstorm collectively as a team, hopefully, and move in the right direction for the betterment of every bit of staff and the patients. And you, when you went to, you were, you were, um, you weren't able to get into the fire service in the other places. But I remember when we were talking about, you know, when you sent me your information, I was doing research, Maple Ridge didn't have an eye requirement. So you're able to apply is that is that correct right yeah so. My ex wife and I we had moved to maple ridge um we had our. Yeah so we had our daughter megan and. And then my son was born and so we're went for a walk one night cuz we had seen that they were building hall three and we lived in lower ham and so.
00:24:51
Speaker
We took him for a walk one night and walked all the way up to to the fire hall. And I just went over and I was looking through the windows and checking it out. checking it out yeah And Jake Mole. Yes, sure. Yeah, Jake's a great guy. jake Jake happened to live around the corner. He was walking by with and with his wife at that time. And, uh, and said hi and, you know, started talking to me about the fire service and, and, um, like, you know, there was the, Hey, you do want, you know, we're looking for volunteers. You should apply. bru on And Jake's like, you know, you know, apply. And I'm like, dude, I wear glasses. He goes, I've got contacts on. yeah He goes, yeah, they don't, you know.
00:25:35
Speaker
They'll figure it out. like Well, that was one thing that I noticed. I didn't think about it till you'd said this, but I remember you ah were able to have glasses inserted inside your mask and you always managed it really well. Yeah. Yeah. So what ah when I, once I got hired, um, There was a company that made glasses. Yeah, I remember. it was It was distinct. It was like a black frame. They look stupid.
00:26:07
Speaker
Um, I could put them on and they had like a very thin strap. So when you put your mask on, it's sealed up, sealed still. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. I remember you dealing with, but you, you never had a problem. You know, you were able to go i was able to to work around it. And so yeah, I was excited, you know, and I jumped in yeah like once I got On the Maple Ridge, I jumped in with yeah both feet. We were lucky. We had guys like yourself and the other guys, the guys at you Hall 2, 1 and 3 were amazing people, really. And back then, a lot of people don't get this, but it was true volunteer. oh None of us got paid. yeah It wasn't paid on call. It wasn't, you know, it was a pure volunteer. I think what they paid us with was maybe like beers and like soda pops or something. yeah
00:26:53
Speaker
Well, which was great. We used a lot of the money that they would do for like parties for the kids right and all that kind of stuff, which but yeah which I mean, I loved it. It was awesome. Yeah, it was yeah and like i yeah I learned a lot. like you know growing Getting into the department at time that time, and know like you were talking about Richard Purdy, you know Richard was He was either the vice president of the arson investigation. Right. Yes, he was. Yeah, I forgot because they did a big thing with the Justice Institute, a big fire prevention kind of burn. Remember that? they had like Yeah. I think he was pretty, I think he was pretty involved, with that your but if memory certainly correctly. but So he, he always wanted, he always put on conferences.
00:27:39
Speaker
And so whenever he put on a conference, yeah it was our opportunity to burn, on so burn these houses. That's right. Acquired houses. I mean, yeah I've never been to so many house fires. yeah i I say I got in about five or six of those. Yeah. And I mean, and it is valuable training. oh When you can, unbeli that you can you know light a room on fire, reset it, light a room on fire, do the next room to the next room. And it's just you're getting in a day, you get 15 fires that are Couldn't do that. It's a real fire. Yeah, like it's not a you know, great experience. Great experience like that. You know, I learned I learned a ton like just unbelievable. You know, what's a wonder we didn't kill ourselves. Yeah, there was a few times I remember one or two when they got away from us a little bit. Yeah, like there were some of them that were like, you know, I remember doing a fire and out in the hall twos area.
00:28:37
Speaker
And, uh, Trev Taylor, I think was right. Yep. Trev. Yeah. Um, Trev Taylor. It's, and it was just a small, I think it was a shed. And, uh, I mean, he's like, take these guys in, watch the fire and then put it out. Okay. Sounds pleasant like it sounds like a plan. I take some guys in. I think there was four of us on a line, go in sign. And not realizing that there was hay. And I think he had poured diesel on it. and they Got going pretty good. And next thing you know, it's like black. Yeah, like there's not what that we can watch the fire because it was just like it was instant blackness. And also the door opens up. And it
00:29:27
Speaker
It was like, get out. yeah I'm like, okay. You have to tell me twice. right yeah Yeah, we back out and then I look behind and this thing's just rocking. yeah yeah And I'm like, what happened?
Firefighting Stories and Experiences
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah. How did that happen so fast? I think I might've put too much diesel on. Well, that was the nice thing is the guys were, they were willing to get involved. They were willing to, you know, try things like that, you know, where they like, you know, light these rooms on fire. And in that particular case, I remember, I remember doing great training nights on Monday nights that we do yeah good training. Guys are excited to be there. It was awesome.
00:30:05
Speaker
got a lot of experience from it. I've got a maybe try to put it in on the video part of that. I've got a really great photo that I'll show you before you leave today that of you and I in a house fire that we actually saved the house, but it was fully involved. And in Hammond there, it was Oh, I've got that. He got that one. Yeah, yeah yeah that's it's a great shot because it got I think Anderson was on that. yeah and He's pulling the hydrant. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It was great shot. It's it's I think you're gonna talk about that fire. um because I think when we pulled first pulled up, Richard Purdy was in command. I think he said to me, take a line around the back, yeah come through to go and attack the fire. And I'm like, I looked at the house and the front of the house is ribbon rocking, yeah just rocking. And I'm like, ah no, let's not do that. I disobeyed his order. And I think I grabbed you and said, come back.
00:31:00
Speaker
let's hit the That's right. And we went through the front door. Yeah, we knocked down the fire in the front. And then all the way upstairs. And I'm like, actually, Richard said to me after these, that was a good call. Yeah, he was happy with us. And we saved that house in the end. We did, yeah. It's one of those things, like for listeners, like obviously we We don't want to see anyone ever have, you know, a bad day like that, but it is what we train for. And when you, when you're able to actually make a difference, where you actually save a house, it's a very rewarding, yeah right? It's, it's, and when, and a fire in that stage is like.
00:31:35
Speaker
It's fully involved pretty much, it's ripping, it's pretty hard to do that, especially in an interior tack. That one went really, really well. It's funny because I talk about that fire too and it's one of my, it's interesting because um I think in the fire strips we've come so far in that time. yeah Like I don't think a 360 was done. I don't, you know, i don't know you know like it just wasn't taught back then. um And I don't think we had an instant command board, you know, all these sort of things. like So, it's like a lot of things that we've improved on over time. yeah But on the same token, you know, we did a lot of things really well, you know, in terms of they being aggressive at the time and yeah and and and and all that too. So, yeah.
00:32:12
Speaker
ah You know, especially back then, I mean, I think our department on Maple Ridge at that time, there we were an aggressive, hunt for a volunteer department, we were an aggressive department. yeah yeah we I think, think back at some of the fires that we attended um and went interior on like, ah yeah oh yeah and like We should have been doing things differently, but you know back of that back in the day, it was just natural. does that's who what it was Let's go. yeah and very and I always say too, um we had very professional volunteers, if that makes sense. The guys were very serious about what they were doing. They wanted to make a difference in the community.
00:32:52
Speaker
And I think that probably landed to the growth of Maple Ridge Fire. Now, I would imagine like that was kind of the history of that got brought into it when you guys all started of getting hired. Yeah. um and what you You got hired in 2005. 2005, right on. And then how many years did you do in the career capacity? because you were tired about 2018 ish or 2019. So I turned 60 in 2019. Um, so I ended up with about 14 and a half years career and then 28 total like 20. Yeah. So that's a good stretch. Yeah. Yeah. yeah It was, you know, I mean, I love, I love the job. I love, you know, it was, uh, I was very fortunate to get hired as a captain right at the beginning.
00:33:39
Speaker
um But you had a lot of experience going into that from from from the previous 10 or 12 years. Yeah. yeah yeah i mean I think I pruned myself in in a lot of ways you know as ah as an officer and then as a leader, I guess. yeah not i don't like you know blowing my own heart. So no, no, but no yeah, I know I think I did okay for for dealing with stuff and then trying to make things right for people. Well, they're you I mean, you want to training officer awards of the year, right? And then you got hired in the like i think the first group. Yes. And that speaks volumes that obviously, you know, yeah that from a leadership point of view, there's a reason why you're put into those positions and awarded, rewarded, you know, those awards. Yeah. The
00:34:29
Speaker
When you started to get near to the end, or like, so let's go back, like talk about
Transition to Digital Photography
00:34:34
Speaker
photography. You said you started doing photography after high school. but Yeah. Didn't quite click. Is that correct? Or? Yeah, it's, I mean, back of that, back then it was all film. Yeah. And, uh, You know, and being, you know, minimum wage sort of yeah type of job. Sure. You know, you go buy a roll of film and which at the, you know, say at the time was, you know, eight Yeah. Eight to twelve dollars, depending on the size of the roll. And you were like, OK, well, I'll get it. But. You know, you go and you take a photo of this. Yeah. And then, you know, a few days later, you go take a photo of that.
00:35:14
Speaker
And I always found it a struggle because I wasn't very diligent of going, okay, I took a photo of this, this is my settings, right like, you know, this was my shutter, see this was my aperture. I mean, you'd have to wait till it's, till it's developed to know what you actually got, I guess, right? That was the problem, is that if I didn't, if you didn't write it down, And you got the you got the shot back and say it was, I used this the right aperture, but I didn't use the right shutter speed. So now it's it's blurry. sure I'm like, well, why is it blurry? I had to you know i had this aperture. just This should have been the right aperture. yeah But I've got movement because I wasn't shooting out of the right shutter speed. yeah And so, yeah, i you know, i
00:36:09
Speaker
I was just a you know point and shoot type of photographer back then. yeah I was you know i was trying to read you know trying to figure things out, but I wasn't like diligent and diligent about you know getting into it. And ah um you know at one point, i like my-wife and I, we lived in Vancouver, and she worked downtown Vancouver. and um I back then you could have a radio scanner. Oh, yes. Yeah, sure. Like, yeah you should listen to Yeah, I had scanner for a while when I first got hired, right? So you could listen to, you know, police and fire calls. And so I'd go downtown to pick her up from work. And so I'd be listening to the radio. And i so I the reason I bring up the story is because
00:37:04
Speaker
i was I picked her up and then this call came in for somebody that's on, I think, the Burrard Street Bridge. They were hanging over the edge. They're a possible jumper. and We're only a couple blocks away. so I sit down there and I jump down. I have my camera with me, so I jumped out and I'm like, okay. you know I'm thinking to myself, okay, I got to have the right aperture. and I wasn't thinking about the shutter speed. And so anyways, I fired away, you know, this cop comes and there was a bystander there and cop come and they grabbed, they grabbed the person you're right there for that. I got all these shots. I'm like, Oh, this is amazing. because zipped up I went straight up to the Sun Vancouver Sun. And back then you could I could use that how it worked like you could give them your photo and they yeah give you so i gave them my
00:38:00
Speaker
My role of film told him the story. Yeah. And then it was like, okay, great. Yeah. the ah We'll see how it looks. and we'll So would they develop it for you then? They'd develop it. Okay. And so ah I waited the next day because they nobody phones you. they just yeah It's either going to be in the paper or it won't be in the paper. Oh, okay. And then they cut their check. yeah Yeah. So they, yeah they would, yeah, back then they would have, I guess they would have paid. It was so normal back then, but now it seems so funny, right? When you got in the day and age of like e-transfers. Yeah. you know So anyways, the next day, you know, the next day the the paper comes out and I'm at work, I flip through and I'm like, Oh, it's not here. So I go down.
00:38:49
Speaker
I go down to the newspaper. I meet with the same editor and he goes, yeah, he says it would have been great. He goes, but you use the wrong shutter speed. geez It's just a little too soft for us to to publish publish it all because it was perfect. Like you got the great action. It would have been a great shot. You needed it to be a little faster or shutter. And I'm like, you must've been devastated. Cause you're, Oh, yeah. I mean, Oh, for sure. Like it's one of those things, but you know, like it's lesson learned, right? Yeah.
00:39:21
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so yeah, so I, I would just sort of an am very amateur photographer just, you know, going along, you know, naturally, you had kids. So you took a lot of kids pictures. And then when I joined the fire department, my focus was strictly on the fire. Yeah. And I mean, I'd bring my camera when I could like, you know, if we do were in the training stuff. Sure. Yeah. The live live fire stuff. right on Yeah, I'd bring my camera and take some shots. But yeah, I wasn't really like,
00:39:56
Speaker
You know into it as I was as and it really what changed me was that when I got hired full time ah Digital was just sort of coming out. Right? Yeah And I'm like, what's this digital stuff? Like, you know, this is going to work. Like what? This isn't real photography, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't seem, it seems like ah it's not pure. Yeah. So I bought anyways, I like, you know what? What the hell? I'll buy a, so I bought a little digital point and shoot camera. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:33
Speaker
and started using like whatever, like some low megapixels back then. Yeah, for sure. It wasn't anything too great. Yeah. So I started taking pictures. I'm like, Oh, Oh, this works pretty good. I can take a photo. I can look at it on the back of the camera. Looks pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. That one didn't work. Let's try again. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so yeah, once digital came out, Yeah, my skill level went through the roof. I, I went from, and it's like, it almost became an addiction. Yeah. so Because, uh, you know, I went from a point shoot. Nope. I need a better camera now. Yeah. Like this is, this is craziness. Yeah. So I bought it a little better camera sure with a bigger lens.
00:41:28
Speaker
And I'm sorry to, you know, started taking photos, taking birth, you know, my ex-wife and I had gone over to Vancouver Island and we were, and we did a whale tour. oh and Like there was killer whales, boom, boom, boom. Got some beautiful shots of these killer whales. Eagles flying, i've got shots of those. yeah yeah This is magic. Like this is insane. And you get to see them all instantly. yeah Yeah, you knew you got it. Yeah, that's so cool. And so, yeah, so it's just snowball from there. It's just a game changer yeah from the point of view of learning and and and and acquiring
Wildlife Photography Passion
00:42:08
Speaker
footage.
00:42:08
Speaker
and
00:42:11
Speaker
I mean, there's no doubt for me that ah digital, like today's cameras are insane. missouri They are just, you know, it's funny because, you know, you, you, you're out and about, and and you know, when I carry, like, I've got a fairly large lens on my camera, yeah like, Oh, you, that That looks like a, that looks like a big lens. It must take great photos. I'm like, yeah, it does take good photos, but it's not the camera that takes the photo. You still need to know. You need to know. It's interesting. Cause, uh, let's say like, so, you know, I play a little bit of guitar. I'm not a good guitar player, but probably play for 12 or 13 years, but you could take any one of my guitar players and give them to, I don't know.
00:42:58
Speaker
Joe Satriani or you know, even healing and it'll sound like magic. Yeah. Right. So it's not, it's not always the equipment is that person that has that skill set. And so for me, it was all like, I just, I use the equipment and to better myself, like just to use it. it for me the equipments important Yeah, I need to know my equipment so and I need you know, so I when I
00:43:30
Speaker
get a camera, I, I'll look for other people that have that type of camera, and what type of photography they do. and And then I'll try and like, okay, does this work for me? You know, so I'll try and build those, because every button on my camera can do a certain thing for me. Sure, sure. So if I need to. So if I need to change the aperture, I know I have to Spin this dial. If I want to change the shutter speed, I need to dial this, you know, spin this one. If I need to change the ISO, I'm going to spin this one.
00:44:07
Speaker
Um, or if I got to focus, I'm going to focus with this button. Oh, I need to focus just on this one spot. So now I need to press this button. It's, it's, it's complex. It sounds like a couple of things come to mind. Like, like when you got into it, it sounds like, like you're saying it's addicting, but it it would it like you're also, you're not just chasing it the equipment to get better shots. You're chasing like that perfect spot to get the shot or like the perfect scene. And like, it sounds like. I always think of like, things become, ah you know, when I use example of jiu-jitsu, when I first started doing jiu-jitsu, you know, you kind of learn what ah maybe an armbar is, you like okay, now I know what an armbar is, but then it it just gets the layers of that onion to hit an armbar. Yeah. Or extreme. Yeah. You know, the different body types, entry level entries, controlling the arm, how to finish multiple ways to finish how to control the body like it it goes on and on and on. Right. And I would imagine in
00:44:58
Speaker
Like photography, it's the same where it can become addictive and that you're sort of chasing that next ah knowledge or and or shot. I don't know. Is that true? or It is. it's It's for me, it's like, you know, I'd read, I've read tons of photography books and, you know, one, you know, when I was like hoping to get into it a little more professional, you know, the keyword that everybody was writing about. You need a tack sharp photo. And I'm like, I'd look at my photo. That looks pretty, that looks pretty sharp. but And I remember my first time that I had taken a photo, like a digital photo.
00:45:44
Speaker
And I looked at him like, Holy shit. Really? Like this. And for, for nature photographers, uh, our goal is the eye has to be tack sharp. Okay. So the eye on, eye on this animal are or like whatever animal, yeah the eye has to be like as sharp as possible. As sharp as possible. if you see it Like we tend to aim for the eye because, and everything, other things can be soft. But from the person from the viewers point of view. Interesting. It's the eye. The i that your eye is what if you capture an eye. Wow. Okay. And it's like tack sharp everything else because the eye is what attracts you to that thing. Sure. Because it's looking at you or you're looking at. Yeah. So it's like the focal point of that of what you're looking at. yes Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So um and then like today's cameras, every
00:46:42
Speaker
Every make, Sony, Nikon, Canon, everybody's going to that. Is that right? They have the technology to, so we'll say from, I shoot with Canon. Yeah. It, you can dial in. So if I'm say taking a portrait, yeah I'll dial in. I can make the ah a dial in person, people. Okay. And automatically, if I'm used to eye detection, it'll snap onto your eye. Wow. Like, right now, instantaneously. I'm like, that's wild. and That's incredible. See, I have no knowledge of any of that. It's yeah amazing to me. So it's it's really interesting to see the technology and, and
00:47:35
Speaker
AI is coming into it. Yes, because they're building, you know, the computers inside the cameras to learn. Oh, interesting. And so interestingly enough that, you know, they know that you're like, Mike, current camera that I have is a Canon R6 Mark II. Okay. And a friend of mine, he's a professional, told me, this is the one, to undergo this is the one you should, ah I was thinking about a different camera, he goes, go for this one, try this one. And unbelievable, like, we could be out, we were just out for a walk the other night, and there's a just little birds out. and but I was actually a barn swallows. Okay.
00:48:23
Speaker
And there's a watering spot on the dike where the dogs go down to the water. Yeah. And I and we were looking up in the tree and there's these little baby barnswalls are sitting on that branch. And I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. So close down there. yeah So you're not close. So I've got a fairly long zoom, but even with the zoom. How far away would you be on a show like that? Uh, I was probably here, maybe 10 feet away. 10, 10, 15 feet. Yeah. And so you, you know, this little sparrow's not very yeah big. They're smaller. They're like, what are they? Two to four inches, maybe. yeah yeah Wow. And.
00:49:10
Speaker
It's in this tree. So you got branches and you got leaves. Sure. And I point the camera and automatically it snaps onto this bird just like instant. Wow, it's somehow it knows that that's my target. That's the one that and and so I'm just like, you know, I'll take a few shots of it and I'm waiting wait and all of a sudden mom comes in and feeds it. Yeah. And so I'm like, okay, now I got to wait. because I got to wait for the next feed. Right. so Because you want to catch up? I want to try to catch up. So I'll sit. So now I've got to position myself. And then I have to think, OK, she's coming in and like she came in and was gone within like three seconds. OK, are you going to try to catch her as she lands again? or she or She just comes in, hovers for a sec, stuffs things in, and then she's gone.
00:50:08
Speaker
So now I need to... Sorry about that. No worries. Yeah, sorry. So you have to wait for the next one. Yeah. And I'm like, so now I got to go, okay, she's coming in fast. So I need a fast shutter speed because I want to stop the action. So there's all of these things that you have to think... Now you're going to make little adjustments. You got to make a bunch of adjustments. And you know, so the birds, you know, and if... you've got a bright background behind the bird, then the bird's going to be dark. So now I have to make an adjustment so that the bird's a little brighter. Sure. Would you move your position based off that too a little bit? some Sometimes, if I can. yeah yeah right if Depending on the brush or whatever. Depending on if there's anything. Luckily for that, you know during that ah little event, there was nothing in my way. So I was able to sort of position myself in the right spot.
00:51:10
Speaker
sort ah So I just waited, you know, and then, um, you know, all of a sudden she comes, I could see her coming in. And so you're waiting for that moment. yeah And it's just a matter of. firing away. yeah And you just basically you hope and pray that you get just the right timing. Yeah, you get the right timing. And it turned out good. Like I got a good shot. Like it's just my mom's just got her beaks just about the baby's mouth open. She's just about to stuff a bug in and
00:51:44
Speaker
That's such a small time frame and such a small area to get a perfect shot. Like I can see the addiction to it because it'd be like if you can get it, the satisfaction would be so rewarding. Yeah. And that's the for me, that's that's the best part is just the... the The hunt, if you're... yeah I've never been a hunter. yeah Yeah. But that's kind of what I always thought about wildlife. It's like hunting without hunting yeah in a way, right? Which is pretty pretty cool. Because you can do that all year long. You're not restricted. no you don't have you know You don't have rules and regulations. You can just get... I mean, um there might be some in certain areas where you're not allowed to go into a certain area or whatever, I guess. But for the most part, it's pretty wide open. yeah So i'd say you can just do it all year, which is... So you, you know...
00:52:30
Speaker
And it's just like, like in December, um, last year, uh, like I had never been to Jasper in December. So I'm like, I said to Mary, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to, I got to take a drive up there. I'm going to spend a few days up in Jasper on by myself, yeah you know, and just ah drive up. And, uh, it's got a hotel and, and went out every day just to see what I could find, you know, and, um, The Malin Lake. Okay, I don't know. So from Jasper, you go across the river and then Malin Lake's about 30 kilometers. I got a forest road? No, it's a paved road.
00:53:17
Speaker
um But it's so it's sort of an area where you find some bighorn sheep and and a lot of moose hang out in that area. so Probably grizzlies, I would think, too. Yeah, but you don't... yeah I haven't seen a grizzly on that road, this at all. um that Friends have, but I haven't. Once in a blue moon, kind of. Yeah, they're around, but you know they tend to... Yeah. And especially in December, they're they're heading to their dens, so they're not going to be hanging around too much. Anyways, I went out there and and found some moose, not nothing in too much too interesting. And then I was heading back and just driving along and I saw something scurry across the road. So I drove over to where I'd seen it go down. And look, look, didn't see it.
00:54:10
Speaker
I don't know how it's gone, whatever it was. So I just sort of crawled, you know, drove down the road. I look in my mirror and all of a sudden this thing pops back. They're incredible. I've only seen a handful of moose and I just every time I just in awe. Yeah. Well, this was this turned out to be a fox. Oh, that was a fox. Okay, sorry. Yeah. So it was a fox at across the road. And then when I left, it came back up. And then it ran up. So cool. Ran up the road. So I turned around. I mean, the road's full of snow. So I turned up or drove back up the road and i just of your vehicles are great. A great what we would call a blind because they're sort of used to vehicles. Yes. Yes. And as long as you're not making a lot of noise. Right. So anyway, I pull up and to where I'd seen the fox go down and back into the ah bush a bit and I pull up and I stopped and
00:55:08
Speaker
Also, and I just see this head pop out and it was a cross fox. So cross foxes sort of darker. Okay. the Grayish not like fully red or not red. Okay. It's got some red, but it's mostly it'ss it's a cross between interesting. And yeah, so it pops his head out of a bush with this snow. that' sort and So I just sat there and it didn't seem to be too worried about me for a while. so You know, so like I spent about I don't know, probably 40 minutes with it just, and then moved around this field area, just hunting away. And yeah.
00:55:45
Speaker
Yeah, I got some amazing shots of it. I mean, it's just like, but where else can you be? It's incredible. Like when I've been out and then, you know, done a little bit of hunting, I've done a little bit of hiking and whenever I see ah wildlife in their natural habitat, it's sort of different for me than like maybe locally. Like if you're up in the mountains and you're far, it seems to me like, like this deer might not have ever seen a human before. Right. Yeah. And so it's, it's like they're on hyper awareness or being... Yeah. you know, hunted by bear and cougar and wolves and you know, humans and night so they're very in their element. So you see that like for you spending that time with a fox for like 40 minutes, like what a magical time. yeah how How often do you get that? Yeah, exactly. yeah And that's where like wildlife photography to me seems so awesome because it takes you to a place
00:56:28
Speaker
That you might not have been before and you get a goal of like trying to find you know and and see these creatures wait When would you ever see that? Yeah, right. That's that's that's to me to me a magical early. Yeah, so for me, it's always like now i'm at that point where you know, uh, i've filled up way too many hard drives but um You know, now it's like setting
Wildlife Photography Challenges and Ethics
00:56:52
Speaker
goals. Right. Like, Hey, I want to find this. Cool. You know, and but a' certain there's certain species. Yeah. yeah Like I haven't, I haven't seen, um, I haven't seen like, uh, a Lynx or a Bobcat yet. Right. Or even like a say a Cougar. Yeah. and Yeah. Uh, it's probably gonna, may never happen because they're so, they're very,
00:57:18
Speaker
We saw a Lynx, we're coming back in my, we were at my buddy's cabin up in 100 mile. We were coming through some dark bush on our quads and I just happened to look to my right and I look over and I, oh, that's a Lynx. It was interesting because it was, it wasn't snowy. It was sort of like dark, dark woods. And it didn't look picturesque like it does in the calendars. It just looked grave. Perfectly acclimatized to where it was in that dark wooded area. And it just stared at us for five minutes, I'd say. And then it slowly turned and kind of crept away. And as soon as it crept away into the woods, you couldn't see it. yeah Just gone. That was like, that was incredible, yeah right? So yeah, it's so rare. yeah Even wolves, have you seen wolves? No, I haven't seen a wolf yet. Yeah. So those are my sort of...
00:58:05
Speaker
you know, wish list types of absolutely. Yeah, I want to get to some areas that, you know, give me that opportunity to try and capture cougars are gonna be pretty hard. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just but if you can, if you can, I can't a lot of like some people that I follow, they actually will set up um like ah game camera game, but they'll use like your regular camera. Oh, interesting. interesting Oh, and there's Yeah, so you can set up ah your regular camera and they've got sensors that well, yeah, and they get some great jobs. Incredible. Not quite the same though for you being in person. No, great. Like from the from the but
00:58:48
Speaker
For those types of animals that are very elusive. Yeah. It might be the only way you'd ever. Yeah. Or and at the very least, you know, they're in the area. Yeah. That's where I think like game cameras might be good. Cause okay. Well, I know there's a career here and then I can maybe get into a vantage point where I could, I could get some shots. Right. That's really, really cool. A friend of mine has done like, you can go down to South America and there's, um, Puma's down there that are like, They're like your local coyote. like there oh well therere They have so much. They they go after llamas. So there's a lot of llamas and that they don't look at people as a threat. They're not hunted.
00:59:37
Speaker
And so you can, you can get good shots. Oh, like, and they walk by you. Really? Like, I would just want I saw a post the other day, and the these guys are on the road, they've got all their tripods. And there's a mom with two, two cubs that are just walking walking by, like literally, you could have gone out and petted that like, they're that close while they still opposite of like a cougar. Like I said, banks or bulk. Yeah, rarely do you see those. and Maybe the terrain too, is the terrain a little more wide open, like less dense forests? Yeah, oh yeah. It's all just rolling hills. Yeah, so you've got a little more. Yeah, a couple of friends have done that, gone down there to do that trip and it's like, they've said,
01:00:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's a lot of hiking like you're, you're up and down because they're, if they're moving, you're moving. Yeah. yet Which country is that in? Is that in Argentina or Chile? No worries. Patagonia. Patagonia. I'll have to figure that out. No worries. Yeah, it's dis guy's yeah i was incredible. it's Yeah, it's wild. But you've gotten some incredible shots of like elk and I think Grizzlies too. have Yeah. yeah that you're When you're at your Instagram photos, like So, I mean, we go up, we go up to Jasper in September, usually year round the end of September for the Elk rut. And, uh, yeah, it's an amazing experience. Like to, uh, we didn't get to go last year because I was doing, I ah had my, I had to have some, I had radiation treatment during the month of September last year. So, um, but the year before we were up there.
01:01:18
Speaker
And, you know, pulled in with our trailer backed in, got it all set up. And that's like third week of September kind of thing. Yeah. Right in the right area, roughly, I would imagine. Yeah. We're just waiting, you know, like normally we would, once we got unpacked and everything would wait till, you know, around five or six, and then we would go for a drive to go find the elk. And that night we're just sitting there and all of a sudden you could, you'd listen to them like, They're bugling. and They're behind. They're in the campsite. There's all these oak. Wow. There's all these big bowls. Just in your campsite. just Right on the right a big huge campsite. And they're just like screaming at each other. And they're there are ones over there. There's one over there. it's Holy. That'd be incredible.
01:02:07
Speaker
and Yeah, so we so I'm just like, I grabbed my camera and start walking around. yeah The difficulty there is that, you know, you got a camper here, you got a trailer there. So right, you're trying to you're trying to get a good shot. But now you've got to strap. Yeah, I'm trying to get it without the own background. so you You know, so you're trying to pay attention to what's happening. yeah You know, yeah and you have to be, you know, you, you need to be at least 100 meters away from but okay, is that kind Is that kind of a rule in wildlife photography? Like 100 meters? Well, especially in the national parks. okay ah hunt At least a minimum 100 meters. That's good. I mean, you when you look look at an elk, I mean, they're majestic, right? But they're basically carrying swords on their head. Yeah. During the rut. I don't know whether they weigh 400 or 500 pounds or 600 pounds or whatever they are. They're incredible animals. You wouldn't want to and you don't want to disturb them either. No. right so thank they ja During the rut, they are just hell bent on one thing.
01:03:08
Speaker
Grab as many females as they can and their other males if they need to and they're gonna and yeah You get in the way. It's not gonna be a good day. And it's you know, the sad part about it is like I think people you know when unfortunately, I think people you know when we post photos You know The elk is right there. you think Oh, it's 20 feet or something. Next thing you know, and there's you know, um the and a lot. There's a there's actually a Instagram account of
01:03:43
Speaker
Tourists in Yellowstone. Oh, just like people doing silly things. Oh, it's just stupid things. it's just like I can just imagine. You know, they're literally five feet away from an L and they're all using their phone and trying to get a picture of themselves with the L behind it. And they wonder why everybody's screaming on them to get out of the way. Cause you know, and people have been gored and, and what's the thing? Like like like I said, without you know, not being silly is like they are carrying swords on their head yeah for a reason. yeah They fight each other. They're incredibly powerful, yeah beautiful. And I always think too, I think of wildlife as elite athletes. I've hiked into areas where they're not big Hills.
01:04:30
Speaker
but I get at the top and I'm destroyed. And meanwhile, the deer do that all day long. I don't think anything of it that they're, they're, they're strong or fast or powerful. And when they're standing still, you might not appreciate that so much, but they aren't, they are incredibly powerful. And so you got to respect all that. Oh, yeah. yeah and For like, so I'll meet up with ah you know a bunch of my, you know, nature photography, community. So, and I think
01:05:02
Speaker
three years ago, four years ah three years ago. um the This guy I know in Edmonton started a nature wildlife photography. He built a conference. Right on. and did you Is that the one you went to? or Yeah. yeah and His name's Shane Turgeon and amazing guy. like he's I was looking at his website. He's got some great photos. Yeah, he's he's very talented. and The interesting part about it is that you know for a lot of us, um we use our photography to make us feel better. right like It's it's yeah it's ah an avenue to put all the bad things behind you and just focus on this amazing stuff that's in front of you. That's so good.
01:05:53
Speaker
and You know, every conference, so he this is the third year, third or fourth year that we've, that he's put on this conference. And every year, a lot of the speakers, and that's what they speak about is just how, you know, I had a bunch of bad things happen in my life. Interesting. And my photography is what, you know, has brought me back into the real world. That is fascinating. that's What it reminds me of, so when I, like I haven't done jujitsu since January 5th, I've been having to do a bunch of other things. of Kind of life's kind of taken over, but when I do it, uh, it's, I call it kind of like forced meditation because when you're doing jujitsu, it's so intense physically that you don't have anything else you can think of. right And when I come out of there, sometimes I'll come out of the session. I don't even know what day it is. right Do I have to work tonight? Do I, what, know what do I got going on? I would imagine like when you're getting that focus for wildlife photography,
01:06:49
Speaker
it probably just everything evaporates like you know because you're so focused on getting that shot and in a moment and and and it must be kind of almost like meditation in a way where it cleanses you a little bit or early for sure like yeah that's awesome because ah you know you're if you're if you've come across some subject and you're like you know and next thing you know it's two hours later And you're like, Oh my God, what happened? Where did the day go? But, you know, you've spent all this time with, you know, this animal and, you know, moving from here to there to try and get better shots or just to stay out of their way. You know, like our, you know, every ethical nature photographer doesn't want to disrupt
01:07:41
Speaker
the animal. Yes, your goal is to document them without disturbing them. Sure. Sure. You know, sometimes it's a challenge for sure, because naturally, they're looking at you and you know, you're on your move. If you move there, they're checking. They're wondering why you're moving. Are you a thread or what's going on with you? Yeah, sure. and Yeah, I mean, and it's sometimes you're not realizing that you're, you're getting closer than you should. Sure. Because you get your your your focus, right? You focus on getting creeping in a little. Yeah. Nice cover 25 feet here. Oh, geez, right? yeah Yeah, sure. So yeah, two years ago, we were up in Jasper and and we ah but were were gonna go for a hike with the dogs. So
01:08:35
Speaker
We pull into the parking lot, and this lady's like, oh, just so you're aware, there's a bear on the trail that way. I'm like, oh, go what kind of bear? She goes, oh, it's a grizzly. I'm like, oh, okay. So I'll grab my camera. And we went that way and locked in up the hill. Sure enough, there was a grizzly. I'm like, okay. And so I take some shots. They're a long ways away. yeah And Mary's like, you know, go back and get your big lens. and sure I'll take the dogs the other way. and well you know So ah anyways, I go back to the truck, I grab my big lens. I meet up with and ah another photographer, and him and I just sort of tag team. We started photographing this grizzly and not realizing that. He get tipped off to you, kind of, that the bear was in the area, that guy? or Yeah, he had seen it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, it was quite visible. Yeah, right on.
01:09:25
Speaker
So him and I sort of tag team her way in and, uh, we're photographing the bear and trying to keep, and I'm looking through the lens and the bird moved. It was sort of, and all of a sudden it stopped and it just like, I'm looking through my lens and it like, it's looking at me going on you and I'm like, Oh shit. Yeah. And like realized, Oh yeah. No, like I broke the rule. Like I'm, I'm. ah You know, the bear is paying attention to me. um um I've screwed up. So I ah yeah didn't even take a photo of that look. I just stopped and I turned sideways and I sidestep, sidestep. And I got back and I went to the other guy and I go, wait, it's time to go. Like it's interesting to me. That's like fascinating because
01:10:16
Speaker
you're obviously you're hyper aware of, you're trying to get this shot, you're trying to keep them in their own natural, as soon as it looked and zoned in on you that everything changed. Yeah. It's like, okay, now he's, and it, I was thinking of, I don't know if this makes sense, two things. Number one is the threat, obviously for you. Yeah. You got a grizzly bear there or it was a wolf or whatever. But I was thinking the other side of it is probably from the wildlife conservation like point of view is as a photographer, If you're a deer and you're in your element and, um you know, you think it's spooked and the they bolt, there's always that risk of injury to them. Oh yeah. Right. Like I said, they're not, it's like that fight or flight thing. They're not moving at like, they're going from zero to a hundred. Right. So that's probably ah another pretty big element as to why you're trying to like keep that distance, get that shot, just let them know you're there. And it's probably fun too, because you're trying to like, if you can get the shot without them knowing that you're there, at that that's probably pretty cool.
01:11:07
Speaker
I mean, you know, I know that that the bear knew we were there, because it, you know, it it would check us every once in a while. But it was just that, that moment where I'm like, it shoot, it changed its a demeanor a little bit. Yeah, it's just like, i I knew that I'm, you know, I'm changing its behavior. Yeah. So it's time to go. yeah And so fair enough. So that's, and that's probably a little bit of a good experience for you. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, it it's, ah it's, it's a need. It's very, so in tooth and tooth, 2022, I went.
01:11:48
Speaker
and did a grizzly tour up in the Chilco. Oh, wow. And so went to this lodge and then the lodge has the the staff. They'll take you out on the river, on the boat, and so on a flat boat, and they'll go up and down. It's about the section of the river is about 10 kilometers, I'd say. and And so you'd go out in the afternoon and then in the morning, afternoon, morning, and afternoon, you'd take a break at lunchtime. It was a most amazing experience. Really? I can only imagine how spectacular that would be. like you're like You go and we ended up probably every day we were seeing 10 to 12 bears. wow and Most of them were all females and most of them are have cubs. yeah and
01:12:43
Speaker
you know, you'd pull up with a boat and you'd be 10, you know, 20 to 30 feet away in the river. And the guide would, and it's not a very deep river, so the guide would bring you there, he'd jump out, hold the boat, and then the bears would be feeding away and the cubs would be playing and mom would be fishing and and she would go down, scoop up a fish and smell it. and either toss away. Yeah, it wouldn't just straight eat it this like they were it was testing it or so wild. Like I saw one she picked up this fish and it was like a nice red salmon. Yeah, like you think that's a you know, perfect. Perfect. Nope. She smelled it dumped it grabbed one crazy. It's white. Like it's been in the water for a week or two. Interesting. And
01:13:40
Speaker
She'd chomp on that one. She liked that one. Like, what is it? Who knows? But literally, you'd every once in a while, you'd see them smell it. Interesting.
Salmon Spawning and Wildlife Encounters
01:13:48
Speaker
And then they would dump it. And they'd just girding on it. I've never seen that much. like I think the fisheries has a camp up there. And every day, their guys are going up and down the river. Yeah. And they count all the dead salmon that are on the river. ah not on the edge of the river gore So they figure out, you know, X number of females, X number of males. yeah And they figured there's 30,000 salmon and gone up that probably to spawn.
01:14:29
Speaker
And so the river, so from the lake, they go up into the lake and they have a spawning part spot there. And then as they die, they come, they end up coming back down the river. And there was a pond area just off. Like that little offshoot from the river. And there had to be like two to three feet of salmon, dead salmon. Really? Just sitting in this channel. Holy crap. Oh my God. As the temperatures rise, the smell rises as well. It was just, and that was a perfect spot for them. Yeah, it must have smelled horrible, I would imagine. Like all the dead salmon. Yeah. But it was like,
01:15:16
Speaker
It was magical in the sense that the, um you know, I put down my camera at one point and I said to the guy that I was with, I'm like, Simon, I'm like, where can you be that you're like 20 feet away from a female grizzly? It's incredible. And you can hear her crunching the salmon. Yeah. And she doesn't care that you're there. yeah Like, so cool. I always said I've had this theory for a long time that I don't know how true this is, but it seems like when they have a food source source, they're very happy to be with that food source. you For sure. They're not going to like deviate from that. It's not like
01:15:54
Speaker
You know, now they're looking at, they always think in the same token, they look at you the same as a blueberry, but if they can just get the easy food source and they're, they're good to go. Yeah. It's much the same with eagles too. Like we see that out in Delta all the time. There's like, you know, thousands yeah of eagles out there or hundreds, I'd say. Uh, and they they'll always seem to take the easiest path, which just makes sense, for less chance of injury yeah and all that. hates Yeah. Yeah. that's yeah Yeah, no, it's ah yeah, it was an incredible experience. And just like, um you know, once for me, it was like once in a lifetime, because it yeah you know, you don't not like you can just do these things every year. I'd love to. But yeah, it's just cost prohibitive. Yeah, it's the same. Like so I just said, Chris Mark on he's one of our firefighters. He's
01:16:39
Speaker
cycled all over the world. He's done some great mountaineering, but sometimes those things can be pretty cost prohibited. Like, you know, yeah nevermind, like Everest, which is like a hundred grand is to walk and into base camp kind of thing, right? Like, but you know, if you're doing, uh, I didn't realize this, but I believe Denali is about $6,000. Right. So, you know, it is something you got to plan for. Oh, for sure. To be able to do, do you have, uh, like, uh, sort of some dream almost expedition type Photography while the photography that you'd want to go do or yeah we're well like in july i'm going and to head up to jail to alaska i'm doing a ah brown bear excursion with a ah ah photographer from the states. oh
01:17:24
Speaker
And yeah, we camp out on the tundra. And he's got some ah rivers that he's been to yeah over the last few years where he's photographed the brown bears and spend like wow five days photographing the brown bears on the river. and That's gonna be amazing. Yeah, so Yeah, I'm looking forward to that for sure. Like it's, I don't know, I, you know, you sort of know what to expect, but you never know what to expect till you actually get there. It's an adventure. it so yeah It's an adventure. are Are you taking like flying in and float plane or Yeah, so you so I got to go from here to Anchorage and then Anchorage to a place called King Salmon.
01:18:10
Speaker
And then I'll spend the night there. And then the next day a float plane will take, take us to the, uh, to the, uh, tundra or wherever. I don't even know, even know exactly where his camp is, but, but yeah, and it'll be five days in five days. Oh, that's going to be. Yeah, yeah i Alaska just, I've never been to, ah we went tolasqua to Alaska on a cruise for a couple days in the port sort of, so that's not quite the same, but ah some of the outside photography or like some of the landscapes you see in photography and videos, just it it looks incredible. yeah looks like big
01:18:47
Speaker
you know, big expanses, like, like lots of things to see. And, uh, and it's interesting, I always get a little bit confused. So when you have to talk about grizzlies, they talk about brown bear, but they're same, same species, but they're saying cities they just grow and they, they're eating and they're a lot bigger in that area, right? Because they're, they're eating more, I think more salmon and and whatnot. yeah yeah Yeah. So when the salmon run comes in, like Alaska gets the largest salmon run anywhere. Um, And so yeah, they just just powerous yeah, just grow and grow and grow and just huge. It's gonna be incredible. Like somebody was like their hump on a brown
01:19:27
Speaker
on a brown bear can be, they can be a five feet. Holy crow. off Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. So that's not them standing up. that just um That's just on all fours and the hump yeah is at five feet. Yeah. you like yeah yeah it But they don't, the area it where yeah there's a, you know, the challenging part for the world, I think, you know, I was just what looking at a post from another photographer that I follow. And he's he was just up in Alaska, it in an in an air in this basically in this area, Lake Clark, Lake National Park, okay. And he put on his post, he's like,
01:20:19
Speaker
We need to protect this area. The National Park Service is considering giving permission to a mine to build a road through this area. Through the National Park? Through this National Park where and there's a a salmon spawning river that they're going to cross over. They've got grizzlies, you know, they've got these brown bears everywhere and they're considering this. And I'm like, how do you, yeah how is this going to work? yeah You build this road, you're going to have a conflict with the the bears and you build this road. It's going to, you're going to damage this salmon fishery.
01:21:07
Speaker
So here're you're impacting not only the you know people that love to go up there to go fishing, or go up there to go and visit the bears, all for a mine that's just going to go and destroy that area. It's wild because you that seems unheard of in a national park. like yeah I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I but but i don't know. i mean over the last couple years, because I've listened to podcasts from people that are up in that area, and they've been fighting this thing for three to four years now, they've they've been trying to stop this mind from growing and and building this infrastructure to try and supplement their, you know, business, but
01:21:54
Speaker
Like when's enough? yeah let's Let's leave some bit of nature so that yeah your grandchildren and my grandchildren or your great grandchildren can at least at some point go and visit. If they want to go and visit this area. I'm not sure on this, but I think that insert, well, I would. that money that like certain countries, like because, you know, historically, like the ancient civilizations, they've destroyed a lot of that. You know like i can look at Europe. europe right like you can't Like England or whatever. I don't think they have anything near what we have. yeah So anything anytime we can protect what we have conservation wise, like, you know, that's got, I think it's got to be number one, because there's there's only a finite amount. And, yeah you know, if you mess with it, it's, it's gone forever, right? so Well, and I'll give you an example.
01:22:43
Speaker
we were just over on the island up in the north end, near Telegraph Cove. And last October, after I did my radiation treatment, Mary and I went over to the island and we went to Port Alice, which is on the west side of it's now before Port McNeil, but it's on the west coast side. And we did a We stayed there and we did a sea otter tour. So this guy takes us out into the, into this huge bay and, and looking for sea otters. yeah And they you know, we found quite a few. Um, and, uh, it was really like, they're so fun. They're so cute. I love otters. They're so playful. And, uh, so we, so this year we came back and we were only like,
01:23:35
Speaker
and maybe an hour away from Port Alice. yeah So I was like, oh, maybe we should go do that again. Like don't go do another tour with the sea otters. And we had gone into Telegraph Cove and I said, they had the whale watching tours in Telegraph Cove. Prince of Wales um is the tour company. So I was looking online, looking at their thing and they had like an evening whale watching tour, like,
01:24:06
Speaker
three and a half hour whale watching tour. and I'm like, ah, but you know what, let's, let's go see if we can find, let's take that one. So we, we go down, we, we get on this and there's only five customers plus the, right like the tour guide and off we go. And we found a few humpback whales. There were no killer whales in that area at that time. but whales are They're pretty impressive though. Yeah. When they come up, you're like, oh boy, you crow there. Yeah. They're huge. I've done one tour like that. I always like, Oh, yeah, it was it was great. Like we got so I got some good shots of they they were, you know, the tails going down into the ocean. blah bla
Wildlife Tours and Travel Logistics
01:24:46
Speaker
But at the end, he he took us to a ah sea otter colony. So sea otters haven't been on the east side of Vancouver Island in
01:25:01
Speaker
centuries. Really? Interesting. Was that too wavy or? too No, they've been hunted. Oh, they had been wiped out. Okay, I didn't know that. So the sea otters that were on the west coast were actually brought down from Alaska. Oh, okay. So they were brought down and and placed on the west coast of Vancouver Island. They were like planted, basically. Yeah, because they had been hunted to extinction. oh Okay, interesting. Wiped out. Well, so they were put there and they just wanted it for their pelts probably. or Yeah. Yeah. Well, and they, you know, like they, they eat crabs or anybody who was crab fishing. Sure. Sure. It impacts that. Yeah. So they were, they wiped them out and, but now they're, they're starting to migrate around. So now there's these, they're coming around and it's like, I've been up in Telegraph Cove kayaking. Yeah.
01:25:59
Speaker
you know, years ago, never saw never saw a sea otter and in that anytime that I was around, I've been around all like a lot of those islands, Malcolm Island, and, yeah um you know, around Telegraph Cove area, boat, you know, back and forth, never saw a sea otter really interesting seen killer whales never saw a humpback or seen killer. Yeah. But Yeah. So now these colonies are starting to pop up. And so when you got there, we're looking, it was probably, it looked to me maybe 20, 25 sea otters. yeah So I was photographing them and then I looked around and like, there was another kelp field behind us. And I'm like,
01:26:43
Speaker
Is that another colony there? And sure enough, we move around. There had to be 50 to 60. Sea otters. Sea otters. Wow. In the kelp. Really? And they're popping up all around their boat. That's crazy. I've only ever seen like one or two maybe. Yeah. I've never seen them at all. yeah Like you're like, this is amazing. Like it just made our night. Like I wish we could have spent like and a yeah it was getting dark. So we we couldn't stay much longer, but it was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. Like ah for me, like, you know, if, if I even see it sounds so silly but i I even see a doe in the wild. I'll just sit and watch yeah for like an hour, yeah you know, and nevermind having 20 sea otters playing and doing their thing. That'd be just unreal. Yeah. can I can't imagine. Would you? Oh, sorry. Go ahead Noah. I was gonna say, would you ever go to somewhere like um Africa? Yeah. So we're...
01:27:38
Speaker
So last October when we we and we ended up back in Campbell, we ended up in Campbell River. And so we we were on the Campbell River looking for black bears that were hunting or fishing. And so it's sort of a busy area. There's lots of people fishing and there's a bridge that goes across the river. So we' we're standing there looking up and down the river and and this gentleman comes along and saw me with my big g lens and Started talking to me and and it turns out he's from South Africa. Oh, cool. And he, we started chatting away and he goes, yeah, he says, I i do tours. umm I'm starting to do Africa tours. I'm like, oh, that sounds cool. Like, so he started telling me about his tours and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, dude, like, that's amazing. Yeah. That sounds awesome. Yeah. So anyways, when we were over on the island, we were camping again in Campbell River. So.
01:28:37
Speaker
I got in contact with him, we went and had dinner and yeah, hopefully. ah So right now we're planning to go. So he does a tour in, you start in Cape Town and tour around the coastline of
Photography Advice for Beginners
01:28:52
Speaker
Cape Town. And then you go up to a private reserve, sort of at the north end of Kruger National Park. So Kruger is millions of acres. Right. And then this this little private reserves, you know, a few thousand acres. Yeah. like And yeah, so go and you'll spend like five days at this camp. Yeah. And they're they're known like he he goes they have leopards um that
01:29:28
Speaker
He says, guaranteed you're, you're, we'll probably see. He says last year he saw 12, 12 different leopards. Holy crow. Really? That's so, it's so different than here with cougars, right? Like it yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so Like just sounded for the problem that we have is that we have two dogs okay and they're two retired sled dogs. Oh, cool. Yeah. that we rescued. yeah And so one's a very skittish. They're both 13. So they're not they're not poppies or anything. They're, you know, they're elderly. they They're there's probably a little set in their way. So now I bet like they're being a little older. and Yeah, like they're, I mean, they're definitely slowing down. But it's just, you know,
01:30:14
Speaker
I just can't go and give them to my kids. Yeah. too It's a lot. Yeah. whenever you assume And whenever you have a pet and you want to go do, it you know, a two week trip, you got to logistically, okay, what are we going to do? Yeah. So we, we had to, um, so we had contacted our dog sitter and, and i'm like, Hey, would you be interested? It's probably going to be about 15 days. We're going to be away. And she's like, Oh yeah, I can do it. Awesome. Greenlight. So as long as everything works out, we'll hopefully we'll, we'll go at the end of January. Animals in January. Yeah. So you're going to go up North in August. Yeah. It should.
01:30:56
Speaker
Uh, July 29th, I've had it until Alaska. That's going to be cool. And then January will be hopefully going to Africa. Wow. And then you'll, man, I, the amount of different animals should be able to everything. yeah like like he He goes, it's Gary. They, the park is Gary. They have all the big five, you know, uh, elephants, lions, leopards,
01:31:22
Speaker
rhinos, and what's the other one? Buffalo. Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be so yeah, that's that'll be that'll be and incredible. um When with you were to like, so I started thinking a few things, because you've been doing this quite a while now. If you had a new photographer that was trying to get into the game, wildlife photography, or would you have a few key ideas to tap sort of give them or advice starting out? because To get into wildlife photography? Yeah, or you I guess yeah have probably wildlife would probably be a good starting point. or it is Or just into photography. Yeah, it's kind of a broad question, I guess. Yeah. i So to get into photography, it's
01:32:09
Speaker
Yeah, like it's not necessary that you buy the biggest and best camera like an entry level camera these days are phenomenal, right? yeah um For the type of photography that you want. It's ah my advice is always get the best lens you can. for the type of photography you want, right? Whether it's like landscape or landscape, or if you're doing portraits, or if you're doing this and that. Don't don't go cheap on the lens. Spend the money on on on a good lens. is there eight Okay, because good, good glasses. It makes a difference. It makes it I know, I know when hunting is huge, like binoculars, yeah or scopes, yeah like, it extends your
01:33:03
Speaker
almost you're like your daylight hours. Yeah, like, you know, because you can just you can see in the woods so clearly when it's getting dark. And in that so I'd imagine in photography to be the same just from a crystal like clear point of view. and You know, like, ah and then it's all just preferences to Yeah, what you want to do, like, i initially, I thought I was going to get into like portraits. you know, when I was still working, sure I'd bring my so my stuff to the hall, I torture the rookie, stand here, I'm going to take your yeah pork you take your portrait. sure sure and But I just got, I realized I'm an introvert, I'm not an extrovert. So I'm like directing somebody yeah from, I've always been,
01:33:54
Speaker
a type of photojournalist type of photographer, I'd rather be on the background, like you not knowing that I'm capturing it and then capturing from there then to go, hey, you need to put your chin here, you do this or do that. Like for me, it was just like, you know, it's a lot, right? Yeah, I mean, sure. I'm sure it's for some people, like it could say oh each people have the different kind of thing that they're you know they're like me but i'm sure like when you look at the extreme example it'll be like you know uh celebrity photographers like yeah they're getting it just that crazy perfect picture like there's guys that i've followed on on inst on youtube like joe mcnally or joel grimes they're too too
01:34:38
Speaker
portrait photographers that are super like Joe McDally's like he's he's an artist when it comes to lighting like he can he can put flashes and positions and come up with some amazing photos. I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, next thing you know, I'm buying a bunch of flashes. Sure. Yeah. That's not for me. It's it's it's such a deep ah world photography. Yeah. There's so much to it. Oh, there's so much. And then, you know, like Joel Grimes, he had did like a very yeah gri gritty type of portraits.
01:35:18
Speaker
So yeah you like, if you saw them, you'd be like, Oh, that's pretty cool. So I, you know, I started looking at doing some of his stuff and I'm like, yeah. Yeah, was it wasn't for
Achievements and Honors in Photography
01:35:31
Speaker
me, right? Yeah, I do. I do do. You know, that type of stuff, but mostly for like the BC professional firefighters. You've done an enormous amount of work there. like So um But, you know, a lot of the stuff that I do for them is conferences or they have fire ops. I'll, I'll try and I'll capture those events for them. So that, you know, yeah, that they, we document what, what's going on for them. Which is, which is awesome. I, I've seen about your photos and I know you got an award for that too. Did you not like recently, like last year or two? Yeah. Wasn't last year. Yeah. I was.
01:36:16
Speaker
I was blown away. So ah the BC professionals had their biannual conference in Campbell River. And um yeah, I was given honorary membership to the the BC professional firefighters. So my local had put in the resolution and supported by the Fraser Valley locals. And next thing you know, yeah, it was unanimous vote. and I was like, I ah funny part of the funny part about it was that I'm at, you know, I'm at the conference, and I'm just taking photos of any of the speakers and your people that are coming up to the mics and just documenting what's going on. And they started putting up the resolutions and my friend Jeff Clark, I don't know if you know, Jeff, clark I don't know him, but I know up Yeah, so Jeff Clark's burn it was ex Bernie. He's retired now, but he's ex Bernie be president of local 323. Good friend of mine. So he was getting his honorary membership. So I you know, I saw his resolution. And then
01:37:31
Speaker
I didn't think, you know, yeah so I just took some photos of Jeff as he got his thing. And then I saw my Chris McKees, who's our president of our local 4449. I saw him heading up to the state and I'm like, what's he doing? Like, what why is he going up there? had no clue. wow They had the resolution up on the screen. and you doing I wasn't paying attention. Yeah, sure. or You're focused on photography. Yeah, I'm just like yeah sitting there. And then next thing you know, he starts reading off this resolution. And I'm like, what is going on? That's me. yeah Yeah, I mean, I was blown away because, you know, the people that I see, especially in the BC professionals is, you know, like, they're
01:38:20
Speaker
true union, your members, hardworking guys, working hard to, you know, better firefighters across the province and, and, you know, seeing the work like what Jeff's done or like Gord Ditchburn was hours. Yeah, just the all the stuff that goes into it. And I'm like blown away. And all of a sudden, You know, they're putting money. I'm like, nah, this isn't right. But you're so humble. But you've done so much. You've done so much over the years. I've seen you at a few events where you've been taking photos and whatnot.
01:38:54
Speaker
I just want to make sure you're okay for time. We're at about an hour 40, but are you here? You're good? Okay. I just want to make sure. I could use the washroom. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Go go for it and yeah take a little break. in Okay. And we're back. Yeah. So I guess a couple of questions that I had for you. one One question I'm asking everybody is if you were to have a cup of coffee with anyone anywhere either live or past? Is there anyone that comes to mind that you would want to sit down with and just, you know, spend 15 or minutes or half an hour and just have a cup of Joe or? Oh, God.
Inspiration from Historical Explorers
01:39:31
Speaker
It's a tricky one. It is a tricky one. i for For me, I've been saying to the guys is that ah the last, you know, Chris Merck and Stefan came on.
01:39:44
Speaker
I'm deep into ah studying Napoleon right now. so okay yeah i think I thought it would be incredible to sit down and have a cup of coffee with him like maybe in one of his battle tents. Just really like a few you know a couple days outside of a battle and sit down and just pick his brain for like because you know his That guy I think lived a hundred lifetimes in a lifetime, right you know, and and just his, you know, incredibly intelligent, absolute warrior. yeah ah But not only was he interesting from that side of things, his his personal life and his...
01:40:19
Speaker
Like his social side of things is quite interesting. He was quite an awkward individual, right but he had a lot going on there. You know, they'd be going to plays and different, you know, and symphonies and he's rubbing shoulders with the elite of the elite. And so it'd be pretty fascinating to to do that. I think I'd be interested in like Livingston, Dr. Livingston, somebody that's been, you know, like explored Africa in its wild times. Like, you know, just as like what what's it what was it like to go into an area that's never really been explored and you know you have this you know this type of wildlife you have those things going on and just you know the struggle or that for sure you know like I've always admired you know explorers cause you mean you look at yeah you know
01:41:18
Speaker
You know, I'm sure you've been to hiking areas and you like, we were up in Wells gray and we were doing a hike and we came across this little shock in the middle of this hillside, like in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And there's a, you know, a sign on it that, you know, this was the home of so and so who would come up to this location, bring a sheep up. And they would graze in this path, you know, yeah um this meadow in the middle of nowhere. And it's like a garden shed like you. I don't know if I could have stood up in it. It was like that small, right? And you think,
01:42:01
Speaker
We're like, we have no clue what it's like to. um so that's That's a big reason why I started this podcast because I've i've had that admiration of explorers, adventurers, and that's kind of like, you know, ah the reason that I wanted to get people on here to chat with them about their stories, because I find it fascinating. And ah my adventures, ah you know, they're pretty tame. Yeah. most our mind yeah but But it's great to have these conversations and and see what people do. And like someone like Livingston too, like, that you've got to wonder like, what, there's no internet, you know, there's no cell phone, there's no like, hey, GPS is going to get me out of this or like someone's coming to help me in an helicopter. It's just, you're in the same thing. I love Egyptian history. yeah And when you see the guys that, you know, like, you know, discover 10 common. Yeah.
01:42:51
Speaker
You're, you're out in the middle of nowhere, yeah you know, ah in and in essence. And, and there's no, there's no like, okay, if I get hurt from this, I've got medical aid right on standby. So it's, it's, it's pretty incredible what people have done in history. And that's why I find that question pretty good because it is just fascinating, right? to you know like i And I'd love to, you know, if it'd be interesting to see if the person, um, could, if they were able to look into the future to go, great okay, what impact have I had on the world? yeah And what is there anything I would have changed? Sure. You know, yeah because I mean, that you know, we can all look at, at, you know, the past history, and you know, the yeah the British Empire and the impact it's had on the world and in hindsight, at hindsight, right? I mean, way you know,
01:43:49
Speaker
It's unfortunate that a lot of things that yeah could have gone way differently and yeah I think we're all ah guilty of of things that we should have done differently, but you know, live and learn, right? Yeah, and you know, in history too, you know, there's been a lot of like, people are just trying to survive, like they're trying for they a tough, tough time. They talk about that fella in that shock, like, I can't even imagine. no like you're just Every day is a struggle and never mind the weather, it's just trying to eat, trying to get there. can imagine like no
01:44:21
Speaker
And they're, you know, like you, the Shackleton expeditions, yeah like I read his book. Oh, just incredible. i haven't I haven't read it, but I studied that a little bit over the years. Yeah. And just okay. You look at it like holy cow. like Yeah, absolutely. They they were tough. Like there were tough, tough individuals, tough people. Have you seen, there's the show, there's a show, Yellowstone is a big show. yeah And then there's also, I think it's 1883. Yeah. And have you seen that one? Yeah. And that, they, I listened to the book, uh, empire, uh, of summer moon. I think it's course, uh, it's, ah it's, uh, but basically in that timeframe. Okay. And.
01:45:03
Speaker
That, I think that series kind of gives a real taste for the struggles that oh people would have had. Like, you know, they crossing a canal, no big deal, but then they lose three people. Yeah. Just crossing the canal and and just just just goes to show how incredible like the adventurers were and what they, and the explorers and you know, just all the struggles that people had, right? but Yeah, when you look at, you know, ah so I was at when I was in Pinscher Creek, Waterton National Parks, like 40, you know, 40 kilometers south of Pinscher Creek, okay Waterton's then one of our national parks, beautiful area.
01:45:42
Speaker
There's a road that's called Red Rock. And at the end, there's like a basically Red Rock, like a ah river that flows down and all the the sides are all red. and But there's
Burn Camp Experiences
01:45:56
Speaker
a sign there and there's you can see off into this valley, like through the mountains. And there's there's some explorer. that came from the Kootenays, up and over, and over yeahp yeah ah you look at it, you think, oh my God, how did you do it? yeah when How far did you get in the day? like What do you need to bring?
01:46:20
Speaker
How much do you carry with you? Are you hunting your whole way? You are way out there by yourself or whoever. We went when we did the Alaskan cruise and it's good. I recommend it to people like, you know, it is beautiful. We went and did a train trip up into where they had the gold rush, right? I was looking at the trails and I was looking at where they were. Holy crow. These like you say, hard people. Hard people and adventurous. Yeah. All for maybe. Maybe I'll find something. Maybe. Who knows? It's incredible.
01:46:58
Speaker
Yeah. So you also did, you've done a lot of work with, um, I wanted to mention it because I think it's important with the, uh, the burn fund with burn camp. Um, and you're still doing that. How has that experience been? Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Like the first year I went to burn camp. Yeah. It was wild. Like. I was a friend of mine from Port Coquitlam was the other photographer and he was building the video. And so I was basically, you know, by myself going around taking photos. Yeah, I think there was one other lady that was coming in and out but um yeah, just to be there and i'll you know, never knowing not really knowing what burn camps all about.
01:47:49
Speaker
And just watching the interaction of the counselors with the kids and just their, you know, how they were getting along and, and these little moments. And when I talked about being on the phone, photojournalistic photographer, and so I would be trying to stay in the background, but I'd be watching these things happening through my lens. And I'm like, you know, capturing these yeah amazing moment with, you know, with a photo and I'm like, I'd look at, I'm like, I'd be in tears. sure
01:48:25
Speaker
yeah right And yeah, it was it was an emotional like that. My first camp was really emotional. Like I, I, um, you know, the, you know, left after the, all the kids leave and all, you know, the counselors get together and, you know, they have a, a dinner together and yeah you're chit chatting and, you know, when the Christie story. up she's So she, she came up to me and said, how, you know, how did, how are you doing? How do I go? And I, I.
01:48:56
Speaker
I broke down like a babbling. Yeah, like, and she's like, Are you okay? And like, Oh, yeah, like, I'm great. I'm just this is the stuff that's going on. Like, for sure. Well, and from your point of view, so I did burn camp in 98. privilege of doing that. They let me come in as a counselor. And for people that don't know what it is, these firefighters primarily, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but put on this camp for, you know, kids that have been, you know, had serious injuries, burn injuries. And it's a camp of five days, I think, five days. Usually up until Friday. Yeah, usually up in Squamish area. Yeah.
01:49:36
Speaker
do all kinds of great things yeah from, you know, going up top of Whistler yeah to like water. Water to the rafting trips, Alice Lake, and yeah, whatever other activities. It's it's amazing. The people involved, there we had nurses, we had like all kinds of people that are just so giving. yeah so And so, and the kids are incredible. It's a great cause. It's a great thing to donate to, in my opinion, um and it's it's It's definitely impactful, but for me, it was emotional because I was directly with the kids all the time. But I would think as a photographer, when you're catching those moments, you you're trying, like in the moment, like that would be significant because you're right there yeah seeing everyone going through what they're going through. yeah And like, it's it's definitely amazing that you do that. It's like, you know, it's a, it's, you know, like,
01:50:28
Speaker
You know, from the fire service point of view, the, I think the challenge that the burn fund has is that, you know, every local, you know, wants to, you know, one of their big donations is to the burn fund. Yes. yeah And you know, everybody goes down to bright nights to raise money. yeah And so every local is down there and everybody wants to put in their time and and collect the money for the burn fund. But in some ways I don't. ah It's I don't know if every firefighter really knows what the burn funds all about. Sure. Yeah. like it's hard to get Connect the dots a little bit. Yeah. Like I know on my local, you know, everybody would be like, okay, yeah, you're going to burn camp. Okay, what whatever. Like, but you know, when you come back and you try to explain to them, like, Hey, you know, this, this is a real reason why we're collecting money. This like,
01:51:25
Speaker
The impact that we're having on these, some of these kids that look forward, this is the only thing that they're looking forward to all year, all year long. They go from that Friday to the ah whole year to that next Sunday so that they can, they can go to camp. yeah They have nothing else to really look forward to. yeah And, and, you know, it's hard to get people to understand that part. And, and yeah, for sure. um Yeah, like it's it's such a moving experience. and and the more you know Now that I've been there a you know a few years now, and you get brought into the fold. like you know yeah
01:52:09
Speaker
Uh, the last year, all the the guys in, um, the a shark tank, you know, like there, that's where, that's where, that's where I was right. I get the computers, which is great. Yeah. Like they're all over you. Like they're, they're, they're bringing you in where, you know, when you're the new guy, uh, like. Nobody really wants. Yeah, they don't know who you are. They don't know who you are. So you're sort of yeah for people that don't know the shark tanks, kind of the older kids. So it says every, every age group has its challenge. And, uh, I would recommend any firefighter to get involved with burn camp at the camp for me, it was impactful in an incredible way. yeah That other side of that though is get in with both feet for that week. Like it's like for me, I was all like, it's fully encompassing and it's and incredibly emotional. Like it's, oh yeah it's and it's hard to put words to it. And I think that's where maybe the disconnect comes. Like when you've done it, you know, yeah you know, ah you you so when you talk to someone else that's gone and done it, yeah you can relate to what they've been through. But if you haven't done it, it's hard to know until you get there. but
01:53:11
Speaker
It would be, you know, what i've I've said to, you know, the people of the burning fun, like, we should be sending the video out. Every local should be making a copy and and yeah showing it at you know that the video that because so so as photographers are our goal is that we collect photos and videos throughout the week and then on the Friday before everybody starts before everybody heads home will put on a video and will show and
01:53:45
Speaker
our goals always to get two to three photos of every kid every every camper yeah at camp which is you know sometimes it's a real challenge like by you know by Wednesday night we're we're peeling through the video to make sure, you know, counting till we got to this kid, oh, we only got one of this kid, you know, and so now we're trying to make a list of the kids that we need to grab some shots of on Thursday. How many campers go? It can be up to 100. Yeah, that's, I can see how challenging that would be. Yeah. that course yeah I mean, that
01:54:23
Speaker
The little kids are great. They're photogenic.
Ethics and Challenges in Wildlife Photography
01:54:26
Speaker
They want to have photos taken. It's always the, you know, the older kids, the shark tank, you know, like luckily the shark tank and sugar shack, which are always the older kids. yeah They're good. Like they're okay. Again, they're it's the middle ones. It's always the middle ones that are somewhere hiding and other ones. It's an incredible, it's really hard to describe that experience, but I'm glad that you got to, you know, you been doing it and ah it's amazing that you contribute your time to that. It's really, really, really good. Do you have any other sort of tips or or ideas for people in photography that that come to mind at all? like I think like we were saying earlier in terms of ah getting equipment, like try to get what you can. I always think, ah we're talking about this with Chris Merck, try to get the best equipment you can within your budget. Yeah, for sure. right
01:55:16
Speaker
and then it's it's You know, do your research. You know, there's so many, yeah like Nikon's got amazing equipment. Sony's got amazing equipment. Canon's got amazing equipment. It's, it's you know, I... I, if I'm looking to buy a piece of equipment, I'll, I research the hell out of it. I look at it. I'll look at videos. I'll, I'll look at YouTube. I'll read articles. I'll try and find out the information and then base it on that. Cause it's, you know, every camera's got something thing
01:55:56
Speaker
Yeah. Different to it. Something different. Do you find the one thing that I mean to ask you is so in sort of fishing world and hunting world, people are pretty tight on their favorite hunting spots or their favorite fishing holes. Is that the same in wildlife photography or is it pretty wide open in terms of like giving information out? Like are people kind of secretive like, you know, like in terms of like where to go or that kind of thing or no. The lower, the lower mainland is very clicky. Really interesting. and yeah um because it can cause I know that in like if you're going to go steelhead fishing here, I don't think they're going to tell you where to go. You've got to figure that out. that's yeah really If you've got a good buddy, he might take you to one spot and kind of you know get you started. but
01:56:43
Speaker
and And you know what, I don't blame people because the problem that I that occurs is that if something special pops up like it was like two years ago, there was a Bardell a white Bardell baby that was born like very rare. I would very rare yeah because they're normally gray or they could Yeah, yeah. So this is a now basically like an albino owl, like a kimono or kimono. Yeah, I can't remember the name the bear or the white bears. like Yeah, yeah yeah kamoto account yeah. And so it was in Port Coquitlam. And it was in ah in a ah park. And as soon as somebody posted a photo of it, yeah, that park became inundated with photographers. There you go.
01:57:35
Speaker
and And now that special experience is is gone, right? Because you're trying to like get that perfect shot, that perfect moment and now you got someone else moves or yeah or takes a click or yeah you know whatever that makes noise. ah You know, and I went to the park. to see it. And I, you know, and I found this group of people. And unfortunately, it was just a like this huge group of people that were there for photography. And they were they were going to be there from dawn till dusk, I'm sure. you're right yeah and And, you know,
01:58:15
Speaker
It's a busy trail. And there's like the locals that are going by and people on bikes and all these photographers that are just like setting up their tripod wherever they want and not taking into consideration their environment sure that you know, hey, this is this is a park. Yeah, it' not just for photographers like you got people coming through. and Yeah. And so I'm just not comfortable with it. i I could see that I took a couple photos and then I was gone. I'm like, this is not, you know, so I'm looking for not what I'm looking for. It's just it's just I feel it's too stressful for the birds.
01:58:51
Speaker
you know, they're trying to feed and look after this little. That's kind of why I asked that question because like I, even when I did, I do a little bit of very, very came cross country mountain biking and I don't even want to see another mountain biker. Nevermind if I'm trying to get a, if I was in your shoes, trying to get a shot of, I don't know, a grizzly or something, you know, yeah it'd be like, it's not that it ruins the day, but it's like, you're in that moment. They kind of like you were with the Fox, right? ah For me, it's like, you know, if we. And I'm like, I've gone out with friends. Yeah. And you know, we, we drive around and if we find something, then we'll, it's cool we work as a team and we make sure that. That'd be fun, actually. Yeah. Because you could get intel to you like, can you go maybe left a hundred meters and I'll go right or no or or vice versa or whatever. And, and, and, hey, what are you seeing? Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. That'd be fun. But, uh, yeah, the unfortunate thing is.
01:59:45
Speaker
If something special pops up and it was just a a case that just happened in Banff recently. Yeah. There was a Dakota, I think is the name of the grizzly. So the Dakotas was a white grizzly. Okay. Yeah. I think I saw a little bit about this on one of your, one of the guys that you went to a conference with. He was putting it on his Instagram. Yeah, so Dakota was is ah was a white grizzly that you know showed up in in the Banff Lake Louise area and yop in between Yoho and Lake Louise and tended to be along the highway.
02:00:26
Speaker
And, uh, or the railway tracks and people are, you know, stopping and photographing her. And, um, this year she popped up and she had two cups. And so everybody's like freaking out. They got to get a photo of the Dakota with her babies. sure And, uh, unfortunately, her babies got killed oh she on the highway and, um,
02:00:56
Speaker
Parks Canada, you know, they were hit on the highway. Unfortunately, they picked up the babies of the bodies of the babies and remove them and took them away. So now mom is looking for looking and she's going up and down the side of the road. And then she got hit by it. And she unfortunately died from her injuries. And, you know, yeah ah The unfortunate and the the biggest thing that, you know, the people that I know in that area are trying to do is like.
02:01:37
Speaker
We got to do a better job. Like, yeah you know, Banff's working on things like they do have animal crossings on the highway. Yeah. Do they put fences along each side to like, yeah, so they, they try, they try and corridor. And, and most of the, like between Lake Louise and Banff, there's fencing all along the highway, but you know, for bears, the fence really isn't much of a deterrent because they can still, they can still climb up and over it. yeah But yeah the unfortunate thing is, it's it's just the speed, like people ripping through there, ripping through there. Like I've been on, even in Jasper, uh, I took a photo of, um, I had a photo of a mom grizzly and her cub.
02:02:27
Speaker
And, uh, like for me, it was a really special shot. Cause it was like, mom stood up and the baby stood up and they were looking and yeah I got a, I brought a, you know, really cool shot of them. And then I find out from a friend of mine that was on with me when I was took this photo that, yeah, she was ended up getting killed by a car later that fall. I'm like, you know, but, you know, from. that highway from Hinton through to BC, there's trucks going by there. 110. The speed limits, like they tell you, like slow down. like
02:03:09
Speaker
they do it there This is a, you know, this is a national park. There's wildlife on both sides of the road. Like you, you never know when something's going to come running out. So you go 110, you're not going to stop. No. And a semi's not going to stop for. No. Yeah. It's always, it's always so sad when that, when that happens, I know the two, I believe the two grizzly bears that are up in Grouse mountain, which are yeah amazing to see. I recommend anybody coming back here or try to go up there and have a look at them. They're incredible. I think their mother was killed on the highway too. yeah They were able to relocate them up there and yeah take care of them. Yeah, they came from the Revelstoke area. I think that's where she was. They're awesome. I love going and checking those guys out. Yeah. one I had a couple more questions that I was going to ask maybe before we wrap up is, what what do you think or what does the wildlife community think of drones now?
02:04:02
Speaker
and they Have they kind of is that like sort of a taboo thing or ah like because they're so they're they've come a long ways to runs are pretty pretty incredible but I would think there's a little bit of that whole thing like we're just talking about like not disturbing the animal not getting too close and. Well, what you need, what people need to understand is like in the national parks, you can't use them anywhere. You can't use them men in the golden years and how you can't get here. Golden years you can't. It's just a national park. Okay, national parks have a no drone. No drone. They don't even allow. um
02:04:35
Speaker
um
02:04:38
Speaker
Anybody, like, even if you're like a movie, you know, like trying to make or make a movie or something, that you can't use can't use. They just say if we allow one, we'll allow more. And yeah yeah, it just becomes this big. um Yeah. the I've never used a drone to look for wildlife. I've seen footage. There was a a guy that um did it the polar bears up
02:05:08
Speaker
In northern Manitoba. And he got some incredible shots of polar bears in like the purple flowers yeah like. That's one thing sometimes that access would be pretty, as long as you're not getting too close to them, like some of the things you could probably get in and see, but it would be a little different though. It's not quite as, I wonder if it's quite as fulfilling as getting a nice shot. You know, I would, I mean, yeah, I, and interesting the problem is, is that it to get a decent
02:05:42
Speaker
Shot with like some drones like your your regular consumer drone Yeah, you know the cameras so far that if you want to have ah anything do you say you're gonna have to be close? um But some people they do use them. I don't I just I haven't Haven't needed had a need for it. or Yeah, I just I just don't Like for me, it's, you know, if I've gone somewhere, like normally, ah if I'm going to go somewhere, it's going to be a national park because of the fact that the animals are sort of used to people, yeah they're not pressured by they're not pressured by hunters and stuff like that. So you can walk, walk into these areas and and be, ah you know, closer than you could if you're out hunting. Yeah, right.
02:06:32
Speaker
um Like yeah, there's an area in Jasper where they're bighorn sheep hang out. And I've sat there by a tree with 20 big rams. That's wild. That's just they're just standing there yes they're all around you. yeah You could literally reach out and almost pet them. Wow. And they're they're just they don't see you as a threat. Now the bad side about it is last year,
02:07:05
Speaker
I went up to Jasper with a friend of mine and we were out exploring and we were going to that area where the bighorn normally hang out and the the park rangers were all over it. And it turned out that somebody had gone in and killed two Rams and taken their heads in the, in the national park, in the national park. So basically, uh, yeah, that's, that's surprising.
02:07:36
Speaker
Yeah, to be honest, in the middle of like, some point in either the early morning or and it's that's a very serious thing. That's very serious. yeah The big sheep hunters now they take that very seriously. Like, how do you feel about putting that, you know, mounting that on your on your wall? Oh, hey, look at the big ram I caught. it No, you didn't catch it. You you you killed it. You walked up to it and killed it. I know the chief hunters that I know are very big on conservation too. So they would never tolerate that. yes that doesn't sound as Either a great big mistake was made there or just pure, you know. They there were, what do you call them? Yeah, no, it was unbelievable. they like That's insane. I'm not sure if you're surprised at that one. It had probably just happened that
02:08:27
Speaker
earlier that day because the Rangers were there. The Rangers were there doing their investigation to try and figure out what had gone on. And it wasn't for another week or so before another friend of mine sent us a text going, oh yeah, these guys had been hunted. I'm like, come on. This is unbelievable. Especially now that you've got good maps, you've got good GPS. There's no real excuse for that. You should know where you are. Well, if you're going to, if you're going to go hunt, go hunt, like, you know, work your... Go, go where it's legal and where it's regulated. And yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's one thing, the little bit that I've done on like meticulous and trying to break down all the rules and knowing where we are. And yeah, that's all that kind of stuff. I don't want to, I want to make sure we
Recognition and Value of Wildlife Photography
02:09:09
Speaker
follow everything correctly. Yeah. One other thing I was going to ask you too.
02:09:13
Speaker
You said that your grandfather had gotten you into National Geographic magazines. And I remember as a kid, I was like, I had the same thing. My grandmother would always give them. oh yeah It's always really inspiring to see their photos. I don't know if, do they still do the magazine any longer or is it more just online now? um i don't know though They do still do the the magazine. it's it's and The unfortunate thing is a lot of things are going digital. yeah like um it sir for wildlife photographers, um you know, there's
02:09:48
Speaker
you know, yeah, for for wildlife photographers, like trying to make a living off a wildlife photographer is quite difficult because um you know, people don't I don't think appreciate the work that goes into sure you know, because they can go to you know, ah Walmart, or they can go to, ah you know, grab IKEA or something and and grab a calendar grab a calendar or even a trend yeah print, you know, and yeah you know, it's a, you know, ah yeah whatever, yeah whatever wildlife there is, yeah but it, you know, yeah it's a
02:10:33
Speaker
It's a market that's struggling because people don't value the time and you know the cost of your equipment, the time it takes to go and a find it. And the equipment that you've purchased, the travel that it took to get there. Oh, so then when you go and say, Oh, hey, you'd like to buy my print and you go, yeah, this one's, you know, $500. What? $500. Why would I? Yeah, I could just get that somewhere. Yeah, I can go on I can go online and then and print it off of there. Yeah. like The ah there was a guy when we went on the last increase when we stopped on the towns in Alaska, we stopped into a
02:11:22
Speaker
art place. And the guy was a wildlife photographer. yeah And he worked for National Geographic, like I think like kind of hard stuff was incredible. yeah um But when those guys go out, do they, like, I imagine that they roll roll out for like a month or two with big Pelican cases and huge like blends like you'd see at the Super Bowl. Is that kind of like what they're rolling in with? Or yeah they like like like ah what like, what's the dollar value they're kind of playing with in terms of like photography? Is it like $100,000 or something? Well, let's say if you bought a five, so a big, big 500 mil f4 lens, so f4 being the app, the widest aperture, the biggest opening, right? Okay, for the length. So a 500 is a good long telephoto lens, the f4 gets you lots of light.
02:12:16
Speaker
It's like $14,000 just for the lens. Nevermind. it really helps And then you buy, you know, if you go ah buy the body, you know, so that's another $3,000. You know, batteries, you know, they're, they're 100 bucks each. yeah If they're going in for a month, they're probably like got a stockpile And then you got memory, you know, I just bought a bunch of memory cards, you know, they're almost 200 bucks a pot. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Right. And yeah so all of this stuff adds up <unk> off and you're like, yeah. And that is that, you know,
02:12:56
Speaker
um
02:12:58
Speaker
who was it? Oh, there was a thing that I remember somebody was saying Picasso. Let's say Picasso. Yeah. was sitting at a cafe, having coffee. Yeah. And this lady comes along, Oh, Mr. Picasso, can I, can I get one of your, can you do me a drawing? And so he, he draws out this thing on a, on a piece of paper. yeah Here you go. Here. That's $100. Yeah. Well, that just took you like, you know, 30 seconds to do. He goes, No, it took me 30 years to be able to do this. Right? Yeah, you know, all that experience yeah all that time. You're not Yeah, you're not appreciating the time and effort or the effort that it takes to, yeah you know, like I could give you my camera, and we could go out
02:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, we could go out to Delta i'm not goingnna get shots like you're gonna get right right so you go you know, we'll go to your hall and then we'll go down to the park. Yeah, you know, and I'll give you my camera you fire away so if you can get an Eagle shot. We'll see and then we'll take yeah i will compare well to we compare and see how it goes. yeah Right and you go and people like oh Well, I didn't, I didn't think out of it that way. So when you say, you know, Hey, this is my work. This is my art. I mean, and that's why I, you know, I built a website, you know, or Mary built me a website, actually.
02:14:25
Speaker
We built a website and you know, we're like, Hey, if you're interested in my photos, you know, here go and let us know and we'll, we'll figure out a price. But, you know, I'm not expecting a lot of business because people nature of the, of the, of the, uh, wildlife photography. Yeah. and And the unfortunate thing is that I think the camera technology is especially on the iPhones yeah are, are changing the dynamics and. ah I think photographers are doing themselves any favors i was actually just listening to a podcast when i was coming over and it was. ah These guys were talking about.
02:15:10
Speaker
getting recognition. So, hey, I'd like to get, you know, so I submit my photo to your magazine and you go, Oh, I love that. Yeah, I'm going to put it in my magazine. I'll give you photo credits, which is basically, I'm going to say, you know, this is Reed Martin's photo, right? And they'll publish it in the magazine. And they're like, Yeah, don't do that. Like, what's your, you know, like, how, how much did it cost you? Not that you're going to, you're not going to get it all back, but but it should you should be renumerated. Yeah. So you say, you know, Hey, if you like it, what, how big are you going to put it in your magazine? This is, this is what it's going to cost you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise you're kind of undercutting everyone. If you're just like, here you go for free. You know, I could see that. Yeah. Yeah.
02:15:58
Speaker
like i have no issues with like the work that i do for the bc and for the burn fund i have i gladly donate all my stuff to sure because to me it's an um those are important causes causes yeah you know yeah the the money that they're saving for by me coming in and, you know, taking photos for them and and they're able to use it to um improve the burn fund. No problem. Yeah, great. yeah I feel good about that. But when you're doing your, but when you look at the other side and you think, you know, Hey, you know what, this is and my work is, you know, ah it's a photographer that people who don't, I don't think people look as photography as art when it really, yeah,
02:16:47
Speaker
I do because I, when I take a photo and I work a photo, I'm trying to create something. Sure. Like if you, if, when, if you look at some of my photos, like the before and then the after you'd be like, wow, look at the improvement, right? Yeah. Like, yeah yeah you know, it's little things. um ah la When, when you look at like, I equate it a little bit to playing guitar, right? So when you look at, it's so easy to to hear a song and go, yeah, that sounded great. I really enjoyed that song and not realize that someone had to create it. Someone had to be perfect at it. Someone had to edit it. you know and And so when I play my music, i'll I hear flaws all the time. I've been yeah playing for a long time. I just hear all the mistakes and I enjoy it. yeah It sounds pretty good, but not great, but I could never play in a band.
02:17:41
Speaker
Right. don i mean If I did, I'd have to like drop everything else. And this is all I do all day long, 10 hours a day. And yeah it's professional level thing. And so when you see a photo, like a wildlife photography
Impact of Environmental Changes and Conservation Efforts
02:17:51
Speaker
photo, ah what gets missed, I think, especially people that maybe haven't been in You know, maybe in nature very much, like sometimes people just live in a city. Yeah. They don't realize you got to drive there. You got to find where to get the, you know, the, I don't know, you got to, you've got all your equipment. You're, you know, it's cold. It's like, you know, you got rain gear, you know, whatever might be, you're yeah going through all this plus you got to edit it. Plus you got to, you know, so it's, there's a lot that goes into that final. Yeah. And then, and I think probably and internet hasn't helped a lot because there's thousands of these.
02:18:20
Speaker
all Oh, you know, there's amazing shots. There's amazing there's absolutely amazing photographers out there, but it it and I like I struggle with like Instagram in the sense of You know, when I first, you know, because my daughter's like, dad, you got to put your photos on Instagram. I'm like, Oh, it is Instagram. Yeah, yeah right. Yeah. where you know is And, you know, when I first started posting photos on Instagram, like, I had no clue what I was doing. I just like post in and put a little blurb about where where I took it or how I took it, bla bla blah, blah, blah. I'm pretty much there right now. Right. Throw that up. And you're like,
02:19:04
Speaker
nobody sees it. And I'm like, what am I what am I doing wrong? and And the first it was like, devastating, like, nobody likes my work. yeah I'm not a very good photographer, like all these stupid things that go through your head. And I'm like, you know what? And then I'd i'll be listening to some podcasts and guys that are like, Excellent photographers, amazing photographers and they're saying the same thing. I post this photo and I get you know three likes. A friend of mine, he goes, yeah he goes you know I posted ah an amazing grizzly shot.
02:19:44
Speaker
I get maybe a hundred likes. Yeah. And he goes, I post a video. He goes, uh, of a Marmont, you know, one of those little, yeah. And he ad libs in the, you know, uh, Queens. a oh hey yeah Right. yeah
02:20:04
Speaker
2000 lights. He goes, it's a stupid little video. clip that got It blows up on them. yeah yeah there's It seems like there's there's no rhyme. So I'm like, Oh, you know what? My, I've got people that follow me. A lot of them are photographers. Some of our other nature photographers. And it for me now is just. it, like you said, yeah not a lot of people go out for walks. Not a lot of people are like go out into nature to check these things. And it's funny that a lot of people, when they go out walking, are, are still looking at their phones. Interesting, right? They're not enjoying what's around. them but They're not looking to see what's happening and around them. yeah Like I've been, I've been on the dike.
02:20:57
Speaker
with three bears sitting in a tree, yeah and I'm standing there with my tripod and my big lens, and I'm taking photos, and people come walking along. What kind of bird are you taking a photo of? I'm like, do you not see the bears? And they look up. There's no idea. yeah no yeah And like this is a busy yeah this is a busy walkway, like a busy dike. like Hundreds of people are going by. yeah and ah And they don't, they don't even realize it. They don't even realize that they are there. Missed it. Right. your phone or you yeah yeah ah From like, I'm, my eye is like so tuned into movement now or shapes. It was like, you must, you must really, and I'm not good. I'll tell you this. I'm not the best. Interesting. yeah A friend of mine. Like I did a tour with.
02:21:53
Speaker
And she was leading this tour and it was just two of us, three of us. And we're driving out to Malin Lake and yeah in Jasper, yeah bombing down the road. And each of us have our own vehicle and he's given us a walkie talkie. He says, if I see anything, I'll i'll call you on the radio. yeah ah Bombing down the road. And it stands for us on both sides. And all of a sudden he's like, oh, pull over. like I'm looking like, you dr well what did what did you see? What did you see? And he he says, I'll be right back. And he gets out and he walks over and I'll look, I'm looking to see what, like, what is he looking at? what yeah
02:22:36
Speaker
And he come back. Okay, come on. There's a, there's a bull moose. Really? Geez. And I'm like. Yeah. And they're so big, you think you'd just naturally spot them. Yeah, you would naturally see them. And like, you, I, it wasn't until we walked probably 10 to 20 feet into the woods that, oh, there it is. Crazy. Yeah. I've had the same experience as a friend of mine. He's, uh, played high level baseball. So the pitcher and we were up in a mountain and he's like, Oh, check out that deer. And I looked, looked, I couldn't because it was perfectly still and it would match perfectly the backdrop. Yeah. Couldn't see it. Yeah. And all of a sudden it moved his head. Oh, okay. Now I see it. Like I'm looking right at it and I can't see it. And he spotted it. You spotted everything better than I did that day. It was amazing. Right. But the challenge, the challenge that is happening right now,
02:23:32
Speaker
you know, especially in Alberta is, and probably a little bit in BC is everybody, kant the conservation side of government wants to try to protect some species. Okay, okay so like in Alberta, the wood Woodland caribou, are, they're trying to protect. So there's, there are caribou in the Jasper area, yeah and they had up towards Grand Prairie. Because they were having, were they having problem with food sources? Well, it's so here's the here's the thing. Yeah, they blame. So ah I did that when i we did this tour, we ended up in going up to Grand Cache looking for caribou.
02:24:22
Speaker
And you go down the high, we end up finding some amazing, like amazing it big bowls. And they're on the side of the highway on on this side of the highway is boreal forest. And so we walked, you know, one day we walked through this boreal forest and like. There could have been a bull standing on the other side of here in the kitchen right now. yeah And you would never see it because it the boreal forest is so dense, right so thick that if it stood still, you would never see it. yeah there yeah
02:24:58
Speaker
On the other side of the road had been all clear cut. Oh, so it's wide open. So it's all wide open, but it used to be a forest. And so the caribou would go from this side of the highway to that side because after that was their route. Now they're exposed. And now they're exposed. Interesting. interesting and What John was telling us, Johnny Marriott, who's a very, he's an amazing photographer, of hi ah ah really looking after wildlife. and his garden I checked his website, O2 is incredible. He's yeah creible yeah he's he he's ah an amazing and very, you know, really working to try and protect wildlife. But he goes,
02:25:47
Speaker
What the government does is it says, oh, you know what? The grizzlies and the wolves are killing on the caribou. Well, no. Well, yes, they are probably killing them. But the reason why they're killing them is that they've gone from this side of the road to this side of the road. And they're wide open. yeah So naturally, the predators have the whole opportunity to go and attack them or or hunt them down. yeah where And the reason why they were this forest has been cut up was for toilet paper. A special type of toilet paper. And it was cut and shipped away. And they never thought about the impact of the of the caribou coming through there.
02:26:33
Speaker
Right? Like, you don't think that like, this is a main core. Unfortunately, is they don't care. Yeah, right. That's, that's not good. So they get chopped down. Yeah. yeah And then they blame the predators, saying, oh, the predators are wiping out. No, the predators. If you look in Jasper, so there's caribou in Jasper, you never see them. Like, I've never seen them in Jasper. Because they're in the woods, deep in the woods. They're deep in the woods.
02:27:05
Speaker
There's wolves, and there's grizzlies, and there's black bears, and there's cougars. It's just harder for them to sort of stop them. They have to work to try and hunt them down. So there's that bond that the ecosystem works. The ecosystem is intact there where it's working in conjunction, hopefully. So it's bringing those things to light that You know, we, we can do, we as a species can either do better yeah or we can screw things up and we tend to screw things up. Right. Cause I mean, you know, like, it's just like the, you know, Lake Clark mines have billions of dollars that they can throw into the. Right. So they are, you know, more than likely ah money talks and.
02:27:58
Speaker
Conservationists don't have a ton of money. No, it' I really hope that we do protect what we have, you know, to the best of our abilities. Like obviously there's there's a reason that industries are, you know, needed in this, but if we can work and still protect the the things that we have, so our future kids, grandkids, and you know, people can i obviously enjoy it. like yeah and so You don't want to see it disappear. Well, you look at what during COVID and how You know during coven when everybody is locked down how quickly. The world like the environment change.
02:28:39
Speaker
you know, like, some things started to pop up that nobody ever saw before. yeah Because there wasn't people around to wreck. So yeah, it's just a matter of us doing a better job of of taking care of the things that we are on us oceans, forests, forearms. Yeah, absolutely. yeah It's well worth it rivers, you know, obviously, it's like, it's well worth it to um I was going to say, so before I forget, what is your Instagram and website? So we can just in case anyone wants to check it out. It's just
Final Thoughts and Contact Information
02:29:12
Speaker
Dave Harkus photography is my Instagram. And then Dave Harkus photography dot.com is my right on my website. Well, we've been going for a little while now. yeah tune out Do you have anything else? Any advice? i got but No, I appreciate your time and having me come over. Thank you for coming on. It's been great. I i love
02:29:31
Speaker
I've never done it at all, but I love the idea of wildlife photography. So I've always thought it's just, it was such a cool thing. I can always throw you some shots so you can add it to the video. If you can throw me some shots, I'll put them on there and people can check it out. No, that's awesome. Thanks, David. Appreciate it, buddy. All right, man. That's great. That's really, really good. Thanks. Really good.