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Ep #6 Coffee Expeditions: Shaun Pettit - Elite Ultra Trail Runner, Travel Enthusiast & Science Teacher
35 Plays5 months ago
Welcome to another exciting episode of the Coffee Expeditions Podcast where we explore the world through the lens of adventure and a perfect cup of coffee. Today, we are thrilled to have Shaun Pettit as our guest. Shaun currently lives in Australia an is an Elite Ultra Trail Runner who also has a passion for travel.
Shaun shares the pivotal moments that sparked his dedication to the sport, offering listeners a glimpse into the mindset of an dedicated Ultra Trail Runner.
Training for ultra trail running is no small feat, and Shaun also provides an in-depth look at his training regimen and methods.
This episode promises to be a treasure trove of inspiration and practical advice, whether you are a seasoned runner, a travel enthusiast, or a coffee lover. Join us as we sit down with Shaun Pettit and explore the fascinating intersections of ultra trail running, world travel, and the love of coffee. So, grab your favorite brew, sit back, and prepare to be inspired by the endless trails and adventures of Shaun Pettit.
Be sure to subscribe to the Coffee Expeditions Podcast on Spotify, Apple or Youtube and follow us on Intagram for the latest updates and exclusive content. This is an episode you won't want to miss!
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
um Bye!
Introduction to Episode Six
00:00:09
Speaker
Okay. And we're live on our episode six of our coffee expeditions podcast. ah Really excited to have our guests on today. um He's all coming all the way from Australia.
Introducing Sean Pettit
00:00:20
Speaker
His name is Sean Pettit. He's a ultra trail runner. He's been all over the world, you know, doing traveling. He's also a high school teacher and looking forward to getting into a chat about all his adventures. Sean, do you mind just maybe introducing yourselves for everybody that's kind of watching or having a look at the video?
00:00:38
Speaker
Yeah, of course. First of all, um thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. yeah My name is Sean Pettit. I'm 34. I'm originally from the UK, but now live here in Brisbane, Australia, have been since 2020. Just be a listen. I'm not the professional skier, Sean Pettit. A lot of people when I was living in Canada used to ask me if I was, but I'm not. Yeah. but Yeah, for the purposes of this podcast, yeah, relatively decent ultra trail runner here in Australia. And yeah, that's about it, really. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
00:01:13
Speaker
No, it's great to have you on. It's funny because I started doing research for this and exactly that's what happened to me. I put your name in the old internet and the skier came up and then I reached out to Mark. So I'm like, Hey, is he also a skier? He's like, no, no, no. So yeah, just so everyone knows that you're, you're good friends with Chris Mark.
Sean's Journey into Travel
00:01:30
Speaker
He's the one that he, he mentioned. He goes, Oh, I have this friend in Australia. He's doing great with running and he's been traveling all over the world. And I'm like, That's perfect. He sounds like exactly the type of individual I'd like to have on on the podcast. yeah So you grew up in the UK. Did you know Marxie when you were younger or later on in life? No. So we first met what year would it have been? 2013. So when I graduated university, what's, it I'll tell you in a second, but the crazy part of it is me and Marxie went to the same university and studied the same thing and never met each other. We were one year apart and then randomly.
00:02:05
Speaker
in Canada, we were both traveling in, I was 2012, 2013, and so was he. We met, um, working at a golf course, cutting grass in the middle of the Canadian Rockies. Yeah. And then just, so see we had mutual friends, all this kind of stuff. It was a great idea. matt that's That's crazy. So you didn't meet in South Korea or any, I thought I just assumed you had met over there. No, so we met working at the golf course in Canada in Panorama Mountain Resort and he at the time was talking about going to South Korea. I had a friend that was already there on one mission in Canada. I kind of jumped on the opportunity. I was like, ah, I'm just going to go. it was That's so cool. yeah
00:02:48
Speaker
Did you always have a bit of a travel bug? Cause I was looking at the extensive list of your countries. You've been to like roughly like 20 something countries, maybe you're like 15 to 20. Did you always have that travel bug since you were young or? Um, it's hard to say. So I'm from a really small town in the UK, maybe kind of eight, 10,000 people, not many people in my family had done much traveling. And I think growing up, I was kind of fascinated with with doing some traveling and especially kind of living overseas. And I think the the trigger for me, so when I was in the university, ah do you know kind of like Camp America, like that whole kind of thing, like the summer camps? So they I think a company came around to my university and basically presented this opportunity for university students during the summer to be like a camp counselor in America, something like that. So I kind of jumped on it. And then when I realized you could
00:03:45
Speaker
kind of travel and work, and there was all these visas available. It kind of opened the floodgates. And after that, I was just kind of searching, yeah, places to go, places ah to travel. And I think that the work part was really important to me because I wanted to kind of extend my time there and have that opportunity to kind of yeah kind of live and kind of be embracing that culture. So yeah, it started with Canada, and then it was South Korea and around Asia, and then back to Canada, and then Australia now, but I'm pretty much better now. That's so awesome. I always, I always find I'm so humbled by everyone that's been coming on the podcast here just because I'm not that worldly. I want to do more traveling of course, but I haven't been to near the amount of countries you've been to. So yeah, it's pretty cool that, you know, just to like hear everybody's stories and, and so you were, you were teaching in South Korea. Is that correct? Yeah. So, um, basically English is a second language ESL teacher. So English is a second language.
00:04:44
Speaker
At the time, I'm not sure what the requirements are now, but all you needed was a degree and you needed to be from England, America, Canada, or Australia, like basically an English speaking country. um And that was it. That was the only prerequisite. And they flew you out there, they paid all your rent, they paid you, and then they flew you home at the end of the contract. It was kind of like the golden era of English teaching, I guess. And it was a good opportunity. Sounds awesome. you You did that for a couple of years. How was that like working and living in South Korea? Was it pretty, pretty cool to see the culture and ah the people? Yeah, it was amazing. I don't know if Maxi mentioned his experience. So he ended up in like the Northeast and in a real small rural town. So in terms of, um I guess, a more authentic experience, he'd probably have a different one to me. I was in a large city called Jeonju,
00:05:40
Speaker
Um, and I was working in a school with maybe six or seven other people just like me. So I kind of did have that safety net of kind of, I guess, Westerners who were in the same position as me. We also obviously work with Koreans and we were able to kind of, you know, get in amongst the cold and I love South Korea. I think it's massively underrated. No one talks about it. It's like a travel destination. I tell people all the time, you got to go. It's amazing. They love the culture. It's great. The food's amazing. yeah Obviously with K-pop and stuff now, like the culture has kind of like exploded. and Yeah, it's definitely worth going. Yeah, I'd love to go there one day. but With your travels, one of the themes that kenner came up with Marxie all the time was like how awesome people were to him. And these are like in countries like Afghanistan, where he's biking into like you know really like you know what, for me, like not being very worldly, would be like
00:06:33
Speaker
something that's very extreme, and it's kind of scary, but he said pretty much everywhere he's been, people have been just fantastic. Have you found that, or have you found like a different experience in and terms of dealing with people in the different countries? No, absolutely. Like I said, I haven't traveled to as many places as he has, but all the countries I've been to, more often than not, 99% of the people, they you know they want to be nice, and they want to you know welcome you into their country. And and in Korea especially, yeah, people were so nice. Obviously that's awesome. If they haven't met Westerners before, it was very kind of like they'd want to take pictures with you and talk to you and all that kind of stuff. But you're right yeah, that was so nice and it's so accommodating and and nothing to feel intimidated about going to these kinds of countries. It's always very accommodating and they love having you there. They want to share their culture with you and stuff like that. So yeah, I love it. That's awesome. You did a big ride from Canada down to Mexico. How was that ride?
Adventures and Challenges
00:07:33
Speaker
Oh, amazing. I was thinking about it the other day, actually, because when I was writing down some notes for you, it just, yeah, such a free time in my life. It kind of, it was kind of a nothing and it just turned into what it was. So I was working at a panorama ski resort. So this was in, yeah, 2013. And I just had this idea. I'm just gonna, you know, buy a bike and I'm gonna see if I can ride from panorama to Whiffler. So I think 500 miles would go through but over Rogers Pass, the Duffy Lake Pass, and I'd end in Whistler and it would be great. And know what a trip. And then when I got to Whistler, I started researching going down like the American coastline. And it was just so fascinating to me that you could get pretty much from Canada to Mexico and just like two roads, like the 101 and then the highway one. And like coming from England where it's like a connection of all these small little
00:08:29
Speaker
side streets. It was just so fascinating. I was like, this is insane. I can just literally ride in a straight line through the country. And it kind of, uh, it took on a life of its own. I just, um, yeah, I had nothing nowhere else to be. I was like 22. I was, yeah, it was a great man. That is so cool. Like the, uh, like the sense of adventure and like, just like freedom is, is, uh, so cool. And I, did you go down? So did you go down the Oregon coast? Yes. So I can't remember. So I would have, um, So what I ended up doing was I jumped on a ferry to Nanaimo. I went Nanaimo to Victoria, took a ferry to... Is it Port Angeles or something like that, I think? And then... Uh, too sure. And then yeah, we literally just took that coastline all the way through like forks and then across that long bridge Astoria into Astoria, I think it's called. Yeah, so yeah, that way.
00:09:24
Speaker
That's so cool. That's so cool. And how, like, how long did that one take you to get down there? Um, I think all up probably about, I think like 40 days, but I broke it up. Like I hadn't been to a lot of these places where I could, I hung out for a couple of days and stuff like that. I would say probably like 30 days of riding and then like 40, 45 days all up. But, um, um man that's cool. That's cool that you've got to spend a bit of time just enjoying, like, you know, whether like a beach or a nice like destination along the way. Yeah. Did you like Mark, she was doing roughly like 800 or 180 to 200 K a day. Do you remember recall how long you're riding for each day? I didn't do anything that long. Um, like I said, I wasn't really in a,
00:10:10
Speaker
rush. I was on a crazy setup though I got like a um because I was in my early 20s. I didn't want to spend any money. I was on a mountain bike with like 26 wheels and like huge chunky tires. I just went to Canadian Tire and got like anything I could it's like a reasonable price. It was so heavy. But yeah, I would say average 100 ish a day but some days I do 20 some days I do a bit longer but yeah, nothing and in the 200s or anything like that. That's impressive though on a mountain bike. That's a totally different. like know It's all resistance on those tires and everything. ah That's so cool. Oh wow. that's And then you, you ended up working at Sun Peaks for a while with, did you work there with Chris? Yes. So it was his whole kind of idea, right? We were in Korea and we always talked about going back and we had a, well, he had a friend who was the supervisor of the Sun Peaks patrol.
00:11:05
Speaker
And he basically sold it and he was from England and he said, look, this is a way you can get back. Um, you can be a patroller and then you can get your residency. Here's what you need to do to be a patroller. So we, yeah, got a bunch of visas and basically Chris got me the job because he knew the supervisor. He got me like an interview and then awesome. Yeah. And then we went back there in 2016 twenty sixteen I did, yeah, two seasons of ski patrol, one season of bike patrol, and then a season of, um, tree planting. in there, um, while I was at some peaks. Yeah. One of the things that I was talking to Chris recently about, how did you find like, so do we have with our bike part? Some things has this bike part now, I think gross mountains putting one in this year. And I think, uh, Mount Washington put one into one of the things that he was mentioning. I was just going to ask you about that too, is like, he said the injuries that occurred from the mountain biking were more extreme than from skiing. Did you find that as well or not so much?
00:12:05
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. um Yeah, the the injuries from the biking were fewer. But when it did happen, they were way worse. Like, obviously, with skiing, yeah, with skiing, you have the snow, and there's something to kind of cushion your fall, even though it's, you know, um high speed, and there's a lot of trauma that can be involved. I feel like with with skiing, yeah, you do have that safety net, but with with downhill biking, and especially some peaks, like it's so It's not wister, like it's not beautifully manicured, like it's quite runny and it's got that reputation. So if you fall off your bike, yeah, it's going to be at speed, it's going to be bad. So yeah, the injuries were, you obviously got minor, but I feel like the yeah the worst injuries I saw were from biking but in that way.
00:12:53
Speaker
um Interesting. Yeah. I had like, cause I've worked with lots of guys that are have friends that were ski patrol or are ski patrollers, but, uh, I haven't talked to too many guys that were, you know, bike patrol. And when you guys were doing that, were you just carrying a backpack or did you have like a little cart behind your bike to kind of get to the patient? How did that work? So bike patrol was just, um, backpack, but then, um, because obviously they had all the, um, there was no snow. We had whatever we used to call it. Like the side by side, like the four wheel drive get good access. for sure that makes one in They can, they can get that in, they can get that as close. And then they had like a, like a, ute like a utility vehicle that they could get as close as they could by the roads. Um, one thing I did, did notice about bike and ski patrol is the, I grew up mountain biking and the mountain bike community in Canada is amazing. Like they know when someone falls and it's bad, they know exactly what to do. They've already got it.
00:13:49
Speaker
Like you get there and they've already blocked off the thing. They know exactly the holding the net, holding the neck, all that kind of stuff. They already, yeah, they already know what yeah do it's good. That's awesome. So so did you, were you mountain biking in UK as well? or So I grew up not biking. That was kind of, I guess my introduction to the trail. I guess we have, we're pretty lucky in the UK. I'm from, like I said, a small town in the north of England. We have like the peak district. And we have some national forests. And then we do have Wales, another country down there, which has really good biking. But yeah, we have amazing trails in the UK. I feel like they are underrated. And people don't realize some of the best mountain biking in the world come from Scotland, England. They're incredible. Incredible trail networks. And yeah, I had exposure to that growing up. I had a family member which loved it. And I used to go out with them as much as I could. um But it was mainly
00:14:44
Speaker
I guess they call it Enduro now, but it was just cross-country when I was growing up. You had to ride up to ride down. There was no chairless or anything like that. Good trails. It's funny. Everything I do is very recreational.
00:15:01
Speaker
getting back into mountain biking, taking a little bit of break from jujitsu was doing that for good like 10 or 12 years and like really seriously, like teaching in that for the last couple of years, but, uh, taking a little break and getting back into mountain because I love it so much. And I've written for about, I don't know, since about 2010, but everything I do is the most writing ever. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's so much fun getting out there and, and, and, you know, getting on the trails, but to see kind of where the bikes have come and the, and the trail, even like things like apps, like trail forks, maybe just show where all the, all the routes are. And it's, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty incredible. Like how far it's come as a, as a sport and, and whatnot, right around here, it's incredible. Like how many trails that you can just see yeah access, but, uh, yeah.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's England would be awesome. I'd love to throw then Scotland would be amazing to ride over there. Yeah, one thing I do miss about Canada It's like everything outdoors is just world-class like every everywhere you see like everywhere you look it's like unbelievable Yeah, like you were saying about the the trail folks like I use Strava a lot and like Strava heat maps For example is amazing yeah if you want to find new trails You just want to see what people are going like the technology has come so far you can find So many amazing routes. Yeah. It's good. It's incredible. So i when I first started like right around 2010, it was almost like, you know, kind of like somebody's favorite fishing hole. They almost wouldn't tell you where to go if it was kind of how it felt like it was a little bit, you have to kind of like scour on a forum or to kind of ask a buddy or whatever. And then, you know, now flash, you know, coming now and you get on trail forks and it's like, Oh, just park here. And here's how it's rated as you know, the trail is rated and yeah, it's awesome. It's so much fun.
00:16:39
Speaker
so So how did you did that? And then, oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. I was just going to ask, um, cause I haven't been back in Canada for a while. So when I was at some peaks, it was very much kind of downhill biking. That was like the main focus, like chalice access. Have you found in Canada, like, but as I was starting to leave, I saw a lot, a lot of more people were buying the Enduro bikes, like the hybrids almost, uh, kind of enjoy all of it. Is it more like that now? Is it a lot less downhill, more kind of Enduro style? Uh, I'm not sure, uh, exactly. There's definitely a mix. Like I've got an enduro that I just, an old enduro that I just bought and built up. And, uh, so there's tons of that and there is lots of, there is still lots of downhill for sure. The one thing that has really come on and I got to ride one the other day is, uh, it's almost like, it's incredible. Actually, it's the new e-bikes, the E-mount bikes. I've heard of those or seen those down there.
00:17:32
Speaker
I went on my first one, uh, what was it? Maybe like a month ago. They're incredible. It's insane. Yeah. I sound good i like quintessential, like, like took, you know, like put my nose, like, I was like, sort of like, I'm never riding one of those. Like forget it. Like that's cheating. And then I got on one of my, oh my God, this thing's unbelievable. You know, you can regulate your heart rate yeah and you can get such great riding. Makes riding uphill so much fun. You know, like I didn't know how to feel about it when I was on it. I was like, I kind of like it, but I don't know if I should like it. Yeah. And then I was like, yeah. But then I was thinking, so people who, in terms of, um, like an entry point to the sport, because we were just riding around a national park over on the Gold Coast and we probably covered, like the guy I was riding with, you know, aren't the fittest in the world, but we covered three times as much for that. Like before we'd ride at once, have one big rundown and maybe go up again.
00:18:27
Speaker
we went up like eight or nine times. They were having the best time. So it's like, ah yeah, it's much better. I think it's more inclusive, I guess would be the word. yeah Yeah. That's a great way to describe it because I'm the same way. So like I'm trying to build up my cardio for that again. And like you say, you go up once, sometimes you're just, you're shattered after about an hour and a half, like up once, like a 45 minute climb or half an hour climb and you get back down with the e-bike, you can just regulate that. And now you could go for like three, four hours, no problem. So yeah, it's it's tempting. I definitely have my eye on them, but why puliter quite, quite yet.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, the bikes themselves. Yeah. Like five to $10,000 bikes right now are pretty common. Like you see them for sale in all the stores and both e-bike and regulars, right? I guess it's been like that for a little while, but it's still hard for me to wrap my brain around. So you buying a small car. That's all I say. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I mean, I, I'm a very tame rider, but I definitely beat up my bikes. Like they're scratched all heck. Like, I don't know, but one day maybe, but I have a hard time like beating one of those up on the rocks and everything. But so, so you got into, you've been doing mountain biking for a long time.
Trail Running and the UTMB Experience
00:19:46
Speaker
Have you been doing, uh, trail running for quite a long time as well? Or.
00:19:50
Speaker
So trail running those specifically would probably be since about 2020. I have done, my first trail race was actually in Whistler, I think in 20, when would I have left? 2018, I think maybe. um It was a 50K upper Whistler. It was called Whistler Alpine Matters. Fantastic race. It no longer exists, unfortunately. But yeah, great race. That was kind of like my first introduction. right on But yeah, in terms of focusing specifically on the trail and ultra stuff, Yeah, maybe four or five years since 2020. And it kind of coincided with the, I guess, explosion of the sport. Like there's races everywhere now. Like they're just, you can take a pic, you can race every weekend if you want to. So it kind of, yeah, kind of came hand in hand with that.
00:20:36
Speaker
It has really exploded it hasn't it? Because like when I, so I did a bit of endurance sports back, you know, maybe like 2003 to like Ironman and marathons all again, very recreational. And I remember back then thinking like, like a hundred mile race or even a hundred kilometer race. Holy crow. That's insane. And now they seem to be everywhere. And is that kind of what you've seen yeah over time? Yeah. So, um, Yeah, it kind of, it's kind of tiered here in Australia. It's like, I don't know if you follow the sport much, but there is a bit of a, I guess, um, a bit of a power struggle. Like, like at the top, there's a, um, there's a race basically called UTMB in, in France. Um, that is every year and it's always attracted to the best athletes. Basically that's where the pros go. It's like the Super Bowl of trail running. And they've recently been acquired by Ironman, the Ironman group. Um,
00:21:30
Speaker
And they've started acquiring races to kind of put together a bit of a circuit or a bit of a league where there's like a qualification for a very Ironman like it's a very kind of clean kind of corporate feel to it. And trail running was always like a dirtbag sport. It was for the locals, it was kind of those little events like and this kind of a bit of a Yeah, there's a bit of unrest right now. People don't know how to feel about the the corporate nature of what it's becoming. Because as you probably know from Ironman, the large entry fees which are attached to it, that you like for someone who's just doing it as a hobby, charging someone $800 to run 100 miles, it's a lot of money, like, and then you got to travel there and all that other stuff. So, um so in Australia, we have some really great local events, especially here in Queensland. And then we have three in like the kind of Oceania region, we have three big kind of national events which are owned and ran by the UTMB
00:22:29
Speaker
organization, so you can get points and things from those. And that's Ultra Trail Australia, Ultra Trail Koziosko, and then one in New Zealand, which is the Taurora Ultra. So we do have like those three big ones. and then we But we have amazing local events, like unbelievable. like You pay a couple of hundred bucks, you go there with your friends, and you know they mark the course for you. all Volunteers turn up, and yeah, it's great. So we have kind of like different levels here. It sounds awesome. Yeah. So my daughter, my older daughter um is quite big into, uh, endurance running right now. Like she's only 22, but she's done some, she's taken it, like she's addicted to it. Like she just loving it. She's, but done like, uh, she did a hundred K run on the North shore, uh, that we crude her for. It was like, took her like 23 hours so or something to that effect. And I was blown away to be honest. I was like, that's just phenomenal. But definitely, uh, it's when I was doing my research for this.
00:23:23
Speaker
The UTMB, it's funny you say that Ironman bought it because that's exactly what it reminded me of, is Ironman. Because in Ironman, when I was doing it, it was like, you have your pros, you have your age groupers. And kind of the allure for me, at least, and I wasn't anywhere close to this, was the idea, of oh, maybe I could qualify for Hawaii, for Hawaii Ironman, if I scored well on the top of my age group. And that is that kind of what, uh, like, uh, ultra trail de Mont Blanc, is that kind of the allure of, uh, trail running a little bit in that, in that organization is qualifying for that? Yeah. So it's not quite there yet. I think it will end up like the kind of Kona model. So they don't age group it. So what they do is they basically have, so if you want to race the one in Mont Blanc, they basically have 35 or maybe more now qualifying races around the world.
00:24:15
Speaker
Um, if you become top three, just like anybody comes top three, you will automatically qualify as an elite for UTMB or one of the races during UTMB. Cause they have a hundred K race, a hundred mile race. They have a few races at that, um, event. And then everybody else who wants to get in has to, um, basically go in a lottery, like a ballot, like they acquire, um, kind of a weird system, but you acquire something called running stones from running these races. Like if you run 100 miles to give you four stones, you all go in hot and whoever gets whoever has the most stones basically gets drawn out. So to basically fill in the rest of the entrance outside of the elite, it's just a lottery based on interesting how many stones you have. But again, people argue, you know, I'm traveling all around the world collecting these
00:25:07
Speaker
stones spending thousands of dollars and there's still no guarantee that I'm going to get in. So people describe the life. Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. So the stones are when you do a race, you get a certain amount of stones that kind of builds up and then that'll give you a little more chance of potentially getting in. Yeah. Otherwise you've got to qualify. yeah That is, that's fascinating. That's really, really interesting. But I don't know whether they'll move to the age group because I run with, um, guys who are almost in their 60s, incredible. Like I feel like wrote they should be competing against guys their age, guys and girls their age, and then get rewarded on that. But I don't think it's quite there yet. I don't know whether they're going to go for that. But yeah, but the one thing I can argue is I do like a good product. And when I go to an Ironman event, it's done well, even though it costs a lot.
00:26:02
Speaker
It's very slick, professional. It's like everything's run like clockwork. So I can appreciate that part of it, I guess. A hundred percent. Like when I did, so I did Ironman 2003 and the, um, it was funny cause this is like kind of pre-internet. So we had to go the day before, like the year before the day after the race had happened, you get up super early cause there's always this fear that, oh, you're not going to get in if you're late. Like if you don't, like, well, if you don't get up at like five in the morning, Line up they're not gonna they're only gonna accept like 2,000 people and and then you would sign up and get in but the to your point the um The race was fantastic. The the volunteer they had so many volunteers. It's so many aid stations. It was very very professionally done I was like you feel like you're in a world-class event when you're doing it. So
00:26:47
Speaker
I didn't mind spending that extra money to be a part of that. um you know Especially it's a pretty big day when you're doing that. At least it was a big day for me anyway. so but yeah so But the other thing too is that that I only am on the outside. I just hear rumblings. and My daughter's kind of in tune with it. But there is a bit of that, I can see a bit of that power struggle here as well, where it sounds like different race directors are kind of competing with different organizations as well. So it'll be interesting to see how that all pans out. But there's a lot of races. for people to get involved in. There are a lot and like I don't know the ins and outs of it but basically where so the Whistler Alpine Meadows race that I ran in 2019 so that no longer exists because of this exact argument for the race director Gary Robbins he's Canadian I think he lives in Chilliwack now so he had that race and that date locked in like um
00:27:41
Speaker
September, that was his weekend for that event. And it was the Whistler Alpine Meadows was a fantastic event. And don't quote me on this, because I don't know what happened, but there was some miscommunication, some wires were crossed, something happened. And communication was broken between Whistler or Vail Resorts, whoever owns it now, and the race directors. And then weeks later, the UTMB said we are starting a new race, Whistler by UTMB same week and very similar course. And everyone's like, hang on, interest you know, what happened? What happened to you? yeah Again, I don't know what happened specifically, but
00:28:16
Speaker
yeah Yeah, neither do I. I'd love to have Gary on the podcast. I think he'd be a terrific interview. I'm going to hopefully talk to him at one of the races and then everybody. I've got another race director coming on that does some, he does, um, he runs fat dog. He's going to come on in another month or so, which is going to be pretty awesome to you. But, uh, it's fascinating. You know, I think if the sports growing though, there's probably lots of room for lots of, our lots of events, you know, hopefully, but, uh, So you did really well this year in UltraTrail Australia, which is one of the features that you got second place. but I think a little over a thousand people, which is remarkable. Is that one of your best results to date or have you had other ones similar? In terms of positioning, but in terms of like performing kind of like that level of event. Yes. In trail running, especially the longer distances.
00:29:12
Speaker
It's a combination like you've got to run well, but a lot of things have got to go your way on the day. And a lot of things have not got to go other people's way on the day. And I kind of, there was a bit of that as well. I raced well. Other people didn't race well. I ended up kind of in the mix, which was good. Um, but yeah, I would say my best result in terms of that level of competition, but I've had other races where I felt I've ran like the best I'm ever going to run. Um, I still think there's a little bit of room for improvement. Um, at this one, I think I could have done some things differently, but but in terms of your result on that kind of scale or that level, uh, of event. Yeah, definitely. That's awesome. And well, congratulations on that. I've never been close to potoming, uh, being on a podium or getting top three ever. So I definitely appreciate like how difficult that was for you and like, you know, how special that must've been on the day of now. Did that qualify you for U2 and U2 MB in France center?
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, so I get a qualifying spot. So the UTMB race week, they have the Volga acronyms, because they're all named after um French, Swiss, or Italian cities. But there's basically the CCC, which is the 100K event, the UTMB, which is the 100 mile event. And then they have a 50K, the OCC. And then they have another event called the TDS. So this qualified me for the CCC by the hundred K event. Awesome. So hopefully that's, that's going to be, well, that's going to be unreal. Like, are you, so will that, so the UT, UT MB, I think that goes through France and Switzerland and Italy. Does the other one, uh, the one you're going to be in do the similar kind of a course or so it's basically the is it only in france it's the back a hundred. So basically the, um,
00:30:59
Speaker
So the UTMB is basically the Tour de Mont Blanc, the hiking trail that circumnavigates Mont Blanc. This one, CCC starts at Cormier. So it's CCC for Cormier, Champelot, Chamonix. So it basically does the back a hundred kilometers of the UTMB course. So the UTMB would run to Cormier and then the rest CCC just starts at Cormier and comes around. Man, because that's so exciting. yeah and When will you go there for that? So that will be August. year one to be, it's normally the last weekend of August or the first weekend of September. We're actually going there this year. but So basically we have friends that are, I have a friend that qualified to UCMB. I haven't been home since 2019. So we're like, let's go. I signed up for a race. You can just open for registration. It's called the TDS. That's a bit of fun with some friends and we're all going there for a week. So I'll be there racing on the Monday. Um, and then you're supporting my friends on the Friday and then hopefully next year we can go back. on right but Yeah.
00:32:00
Speaker
That's so cool, man. That's going to be exciting. Oh, that's, that's, that's so cool. So, uh, I guess like a couple of things like talking about your trail, your, your trail running. Do you, do you do any like ultra marathons like on road as well, or just, just strictly trail? Right. Trenton be a mainly trail. Cause again, the growth of the sport you can run, it's like, I think The part I like is the trail part right now. and Kind of the road part scares me a little bit. i I honestly think I'd get a little bit too beaten up, like for some reason by... Yeah, I don't know whether it's my stride or how I run, but running 100km in a row just seems like it would tear me apart. I think with trail, you know, your stride pattern and changes a little bit, a little bit of a variety uphill-downhill. So yeah, mainly trail. Mainly trail.
00:32:47
Speaker
The Australian, yeah the one that you placed second in, I watched a video on that. It looked awesome. The terrain looked incredible. yeah Did you find that when you were running it? It was like, it looked pretty awesome. And it's not just the spectacular views. There's some pretty cool like ladders and different ridges that you're kind of running on. Is is that kind of what you found through it? Yeah. So Ultra Trail Australia is very unique and it's um people get caught out and you do have to train quite specifically for it. So it's about 4,500 meters over a hundred K, which is decent. Um, it has a real runnable sections in it, but because it's on that clip side, there's a lot of stairs. I think I don't know what the final count is, but there's yeah. 5,000 plus stairs and running up and down stairs. Just, it just tells you apart if you're not prepared for it. So it's very unique in that aspect and people,
00:33:40
Speaker
I have to train specific on on stairs and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's very unique to Blue Mountains. um It's almost like who told me it's like if the yeah Grand Canyon in the rainforest had like a baby. It's like a mini kind of Grand Canyon like tree. It's very unique. It's awesome. like i like The video that I watched was great. It showed some of the spectacular views and those stairs and some of the ladder work. It seems like some of the people too, like there's quite a few bottlenecks ah that guys run into, like you know depending on like how people are trying to you know they're trying to navigate their way down the trail or on a ladder. like It seems like people get backlogged a little bit because it is tight quarters. but Yeah, that kind of mispack, it all gets kind of like congested into some of those areas, but
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's worth it. It's great. I love it down there. Yeah. It looks amazing. When you're training, I was thinking like, do you find there, like, what's the biggest challenges for you right now to perform at the level you're performing? Is there a few things that come in mind or is it, or have you sort of found a real balance with training and work and everything else? Like, is there anything that comes to mind that that sort of challenges you a lot with getting to where you're at right now? Um, What would the challenges be? It would just be, um, so in my opinion, there are many different ways you can train for these things is obviously you kind of generic, like, you know, printed like fitness principles, like getting fit. I feel like how, um, trail running and ultra running different, uh, differentiates from, from road running. It's all about the specificity. Like you need to know. You need to get close to or mimic the terrain you're going to be running on.
Training Strategies and Nutrition
00:35:23
Speaker
because you're just going to be shocked on the day. So that's always a challenge. In Queensland, we don't have big climbs. but We don't have some valley floor to the top of the mountain, thousand meter plus climbs. We have very congratulating up and down stuff. Trying to find ways to be creative to try and limit big long climbs or big long descents is always a challenge in terms of fitting it in. I've got a pretty good, I'm in a pretty good groove now, just trying to be consistent as possible, I guess, week in, week out and listening to my body and kind of prioritizing recovery. Because I'd love to do more. Like in terms of volume, I don't do that much. I know people that do much, much more, but I just find if I just play too much with that, trying to push, push, push, I just can't get the recovery in and it all just falls apart. Consistency goes out the window and then it's there's almost no point to it. I might as well just kind of, yeah, keep it consistent week in, week out.
00:36:22
Speaker
the main challenge is the specificity, trying to mimic the ratio you're going to, especially going to UTMB. There's no way we can mimic that here. So we have to try and get creative, how are we going to strengthen the legs enough? How are we going to... Because at UTMB, they'll have 10 kilometers of descent straight down to the valley. So there's no way we can get that here. So just trying to figure out ways to do it. Yeah, that's the main challenge, I think. Yeah. That's interesting. Like the terrain is like such a big part of the ultra trail running. It's not like this road running or I mean, road running has it its its its challenges obviously as well, but that makes a lot of sense. I would imagine BC would land a little more to those ascents because we have the mountains here where you could actually like climb them multiple times if you wanted to.
00:37:10
Speaker
if If you're kind of in an undulating area, do you do like, would you do something like wrap sand? Like would you do like, okay, we've got 300 meters sent here. I'm going to do that like three or four times. Is that kind of what you try to try to do or like, that's probably the closest we can get a general rule of thumb for me is I try and if a race is a hundred kilometers and 5,000 meters, that's roughly 50 meters per kilometer by the end, as I kind of progress through a training block at the top end, I want to be. at least a hundred case of the week and 5,000 meters. So at least I know what that kind of 50 meters per kilometer feels like, like in my legs, like that's kind of how I judge it. But yeah, we can do those repeats, but again, it's not, it's the best we can do because you kind of getting that break and like the pacing is different. Like how you would pace like a longer, like 10 K climb is completely different to how you pace a shorter climb. But yeah, just, just making sure you try and get the elevation in somehow.
00:38:09
Speaker
and try and get the figures to kind of line up to what it may be like on the day. Kind of how I go by it. That's interesting. And do you do like, so back in the day when I was reading lots of triathlon books and like just trying to piece things together, I tried to do period, periodization where I'll do like kind of three week builds, one week kind of taper. Do you think like that or is it a little more precise? Yeah. So I do periodize. There's a couple of ways. I played around with it. So like generally what I guess the traditional approach would be, people could argue either way, but like we call it like a mixed periodization. So like during a week, you might, you can obviously do probably a long run and then you might do like a tempo day. You might be like an interval day and then some like easy running. And then you kind of, you do that for three weeks, kind of bringing the numbers up and then you have like a down week. Or this year I tried to kind of look at my year as like a whole and kind of
00:39:06
Speaker
block periodize it. So I had like a 50k I wanted to do in when was it in March. So my folk was kind of getting getting faster for that. So I would instead of so my sessions in the week would maybe like two interval sessions or two tempo sessions in the week. And then once that race was over, I kind of lower the intensity, kind of drop those tempo sessions and focus more on like longer intervals or kind of lower intensity stuff to prepare for like a longer race, if that makes sense. so it's kind of So instead of in one week doing all kinds of different intensities, focus on one type of intensity for like four to six weeks. And then i you another one. Yeah. So I kind of tried a little bit of that this year, which kind of
00:39:53
Speaker
I think i think would so. I went down to San Diego with my daughter, actually, and we did this big course on stretching and kind of a guru down there. He's worked with like the Navy SEALs and big sports teams like the Chargers and the Cleveland Browns and whatnot. One of the things he was very big on was taking a full day off, like training hard for like three or four days, depending on your schedule, maybe two to three days, but I kind of think like probably three days. And in a full 24 hours off, do you find that you do that? Like where you take a full day of recovery or like, how does your recovery look in terms of like compensating for that? Like those tempo runs and whatnot? Um, oh, I always take Monday's off. Oh wait, I always have, um,
00:40:40
Speaker
for the last few years. Before that, I think, you know, I guess my ego wouldn't let me like I wanted to run every day, like you got to train every day. But having that Monday off, it's just so beneficial. Because if you're doing a long run on a Sunday, let's say Sunday morning, I did a long run, I get all of Sunday, all of Monday, and then I don't run again until Tuesday after work. So I just give myself almost like two full days. And I just feel like I pull up so much better. And with that principle of consistency, it just allows me to just pick those weeks off and not get, you know, not bury myself. Because if I get too tired and I can't recover, then it all just kind of falls apart. And you end up with this kind of up-down kind of grasses-like volume, whereas, yeah, it just helps me. And I recommend that to everyone, but everybody's different, I guess. I know people that run every day for a few minutes to take breaks, and they somehow make it work. and But yeah, for me,
00:41:38
Speaker
the Monday office is really nice. And I look forward to it too. Every week. Yeah, he that that what you just said is pretty much exactly what he preached. He would actually like you to take, if you're doing a hard session on Sunday, he would like to see 48 hours. So he would say though, something like what you just said is like, you can't do 48 hours. You got 24 hours, you got the whole next day, then train in the train in the afternoon or the evenings. You've had as much recovery to allow your body to like build and rebuild itself to get to that point. and
00:42:10
Speaker
It's funny because I've gone through those modes where I'm like, go I'm never taking days off. I'm going to train seven days a week. But ah if you, I feel if you train hard enough, and that was a big thing he would quantify is like, you need to train hard enough that you break when your body down that you need, that you now need that time off to recover. And I think that it makes a lot of sense when you kind of let the, when you think about it and take a step back and just go, okay, yeah, my body needs to kind of heal up and get stronger. And then hopefully you bounce back on the other, on the other side of it. Do you do, do you do much, um, in terms of like prehabilitation, like I do everything like ice bath. I've done that before it was popular. Uh, like, you know, cause I mean, pro athletes and elite college athletes have been doing that for years and years, but I've done it for like, now it's kind of like a more of a mainstream thing. It seems like, but I've got sauna, I've got like, I do a lot of stretching and whatnot. Do you, do you much in terms of prehabilitation? No, but I should, I definitely, it's one of those things I should, yeah it's just,
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's finding the time like I'm kind of going through a little bit of a problem with my hip now and I never used to like going to physios and then I've I've been going to one and he's been really great and so I'm trying to Yeah, trying to kind of fit strength train and stretching and all that kind of stuff in but it's just In a full day. I don't know. It's just not um What is somebody weird? I said it's like not cool. It's like I just want to just roam and you know what I mean? Like it's almost like it's not 100 not like uh, yeah Yeah, it's just one of those things that I have to somehow, yeah, go ahead, sorry, go ahead. Oh no, go ahead, go ahead. I was just going to say, it's one of those things I need to figure out a way where it becomes like automatic, where I just like, maybe if it's like a 10 minute routine, I can just do it, you know what I mean? It's quick and I'm not going to forget it and I can somehow fit it in.
00:44:01
Speaker
Well, you're, you're busy too, cause you're teaching as well. You're doing, you're working your full-time job and and then getting your training and that's not but easy. And then to add recovery training or pre-habilitation training isn't always easy to kind of slip it in. I'm big on the stretching thing because it's worked really well for myself, but um I kind of had to make it kind of a priority because I'm 53 years old. So the body just takes a beating and I have had to kind of like really try to undo a lot of tightening that I've done over the years. How did you start with stretching and all that kind of stuff? How long did you have to keep consistent before you really noticed?
00:44:38
Speaker
Like a different. It's a great question. And it, this is going to like sound absolutely ridiculous, but I can only just say that it's worked for me. So I haven't found anything in terms of stretching that's really, really worked well. I love yoga. I think it's fantastic, but I never got a lot of gains from it. So my body was extremely tight and I had lots of injuries from jiu-jitsu and other things. So when I, I was actually injured when I reached out to this, this guy, Joe, his name is Joe Hip and Steel. He owns Ultimate Human Performance. in San Diego. And when I bought his videos, which was like quite expensive for me, and but it was the best thing I could have done at the time. The stretching started out at like 90 minutes, believe it or not, which sounds insane. But when you understand what you're doing and why you're doing it, it makes a lot of sense. now
00:45:24
Speaker
The goal is though, is to get it down to like 10 minutes. So like his wife is incredible. Like she's a elite runner. Like she, or like, at least she used to be, she's won, she won masters and medals in track and field. Like, I think she won like national, like six or seven medals, gold medals and that. And, but she can do his whole routine in 10 or 15 minutes because her ranges are open to the standards that he set and she's done all the stretching. So now for me, I've taken that down to about. 60 minutes. and So and that being said though, that 60 minutes really resets my body. So even though I'm a recreational athlete, it really, really helps. And I just noticed like, you're not going to get rid of all your injuries for sure. Like there's still potential, but I think my injury rate has dropped huge. And I mean, my performance, I can't really quantify that, but I would say it's probably gone up a little bit.
00:46:18
Speaker
Overall, but yeah, it's, I know it sounds ridiculous, but it actually, what he teaches works, I can only just attribute to what he's taught. Yeah. Yeah. I do need to, it like I said, that this is in terms of like troning for me, like I kind of said in my email, it's a hobby, but I like to take it seriously. But it's one of those, it's one of those things that it's becoming so, like I was saying about the growth of the sport. So the point, the end of the sport now. is getting, you're getting these trail running grows and kind of all money comes into the sport and it becomes, you know, what it's becoming, you get these, you know, Olympic level marathon runners turning up, you know what I mean? And they and they do everything like like you were saying, they do all the prehab, they're doing all the stretching, they treat it like a professional outfit, even though it very, very much is just a recreation like a hobby, we all take too seriously, it's becoming so competitive up there. Like, um
00:47:16
Speaker
old show Australia where I came to the guy who won Mikey. He beat everyone by like an hour and I don't know how old he is but he treats it like he's a professional and he's not. ah That's how serious it's becoming like doing everything like he was saying, doing everything right. So yeah, it's um I don't want to be competitive. I guess I need to do all that kind of stuff because everyone else is. so Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a tough one because you got to find that balance in life where it's still fun. You know, like if you don't enjoy what you're doing, then I don't know. I found like when I was teaching jiu-jitsu, other people would come in and
00:47:50
Speaker
they would be excited about what they're doing. And, you know, a year goes by and they're gone. They're not doing it anymore because maybe they started competing. It didn't really go their way there. You know, they realize, oh, this is a lot of work. What I tried to do with that, I tried to really keep it fun and just enjoy the learning and not take it too serious. So I don't know. It's probably, it's probably a little bit of a, a little bit of a challenge there to kind of find that balance. Cause it's nice to compete too, but it's also, you want to, you want to enjoy what you're doing. I'm sure. Yeah, that's what I think I wrestled with that. I just, um, Yeah, you would, you want to enjoy the process. Like even if, even if there wasn't like a competition at the end, you still want to enjoy what you're doing because. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's not a guarantee. Like life can be too short. Exactly. Exactly. Um, but yeah, but I will, I'll try, I'll try and do some stretching. I'll try.
00:48:37
Speaker
Well, yeah. And, uh, you know, if you ever want some of the, like what I've learned, definitely reach out anytime and I'll, I can guide you along what I've done. I'm not saying it's the end all be all. All I can say is for me, it's worked out incredibly well. And for my daughter, Madison, she does it religiously. Her ranges are fully open to the standards that this guy set and they weren't before she was incredibly tight. When she started this, this is like a little bit less, but eight or 10 months ago. And now like. She'll do like, she did that van 100 through the mountains there. And she was mountain biking two days later, no problem. Like just like, yeah. And yeah, she could say, Oh, she's 22. Uh, I can guarantee you if she wasn't stretching, she wouldn't have done that race very well. And she definitely wouldn't be recovered as well. It's just, yeah it really is a pretty awesome thing. Right. But it's good yeah, so it doesn't, anytime just reach out, no problem. I can try to guide you a lot.
00:49:32
Speaker
The other thing I was going to ask you is how does your nutrition work out? Like, are you pretty hyper focused on that? Like some guys are, some guys aren't. I know, like I read a bit of the book on Michael Phelps, the swimmer, yeah and he was taken in huge calories. Like, I think like something like 10,000 calories a day. And I think he was eating really well, but he was also just eating garbage. It's my understanding. I could be wrong on that, but i I understand. I think he was like Crusher McDonald's or whatever as well. But how do you find your nutrition to be? Yeah, so mine so nutrition would really be divided. yet like my race day right Like racing nutrition,
00:50:12
Speaker
outside of racing nutrition. so like we We generally eat pretty good in the house. I think I had generally have this kind of rule of thumb, like we were talking about consistency. you know I like a bit of junk food from time to time. In my opinion, I can eat 80-85% good and 15% crap for the rest of my life. And if I can do that, I feel like I'll be happy. I'll be healthy. If I start messing around with, you know, 99% good, only one, I think it would just drive me crazy. So I just think I need nutrient outside of racing. I like a sweet treat as much as an expert. But yes, I can be 85% good, healthy, whole food, and the rest, you know, guilt free junk. And I can do that. No problem. No stress.
00:51:01
Speaker
for the rest of the time. That's kind of where my philosophy is with that. With race day nutrition, it's something I never took seriously. I just wanted to, because of a good friend of mine who's a good runner, he says the longer you go, like these races, like 100 miles, 200 miles, whatever it is, It's like, it's basically an eating competition with some running mixed in. That's basically what it is. It's like who can eat the best, like who can fuel, who can fuel themselves the best. And that's become a bit more of a science now, even at like this, this hobby level, people are really getting dialed in because it really makes a huge difference for your performance. I don't know the exact stat, but the number one reason for people dropping out of these races is GI to distress. It always has been, it's nothing to do with fitness, stomach related issues most of the time.
00:51:49
Speaker
And that goes from not having a clear nutrition plan for the race, not understanding what calories or carbs you need, not following the plan, not having a backup, all that kind of stuff. So I've had some terrible races where I just haven't had a plan and yeah, they've just gone horribly wrong. GI i distress, throwing up, all that kind of stuff. And then I've had great ones where I've had a nutrition plan. I followed it the best I could and it's allowed me to basically perform as well as you can on the day. So my rough nutrition for the day, the product I use right now is, I don't know if you have it in Canada, it's called precision, precision, precision hydration, fuel and hydration. It's like black with like yellow stripes on it. So they have gels with 30 grams of carbs in them. And then they also have a um drink mix, which has basically a thousand milligrams of sodium per liter and 30 grams of carbs.
00:52:48
Speaker
in each per litre. So basically I just aim for 90 grams of carbs per hour, roughly about 500 milliliters of water an hour and 500 milligrams of sodium per hour, something like that around that or a thousand milligrams of sodium per hour. and And that's just through experience really, just figuring out what works, practicing with the product. Like I'm like even not even on a hot day, um I'll sweat and I'll have like salt rings like around here and like around my eyes. So it's one of those things I didn't really pay attention to it at first, but upping my sodium levels in a race really helps. So yeah, just experimenting with that. yeah
00:53:32
Speaker
That's what I've heard that like, uh, I don't fully understand it, but the salt intake seems very critical. It's something like when I was doing a little bit of running and triathlon. I tried to pay attention to my nutrition. I actually did do the best I could, but I didn't really understand it in terms of sodium. I just kind of, Oh, you know, I'll have a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Uh, I did you find like, and I found like personally, you could get really sick of certain foods, like certain gels or just like, okay, I can't even touch that anymore. Have you gone through a little bit of that over time? Yeah. Yeah. So like, um, what did I use before? I can't remember what they were called, but yeah, flavor fatigue. Just, you can't stomach it. Like I, I think I had a gel, which was, it was almost like. Like a tablespoon of peanut butter. That's what it tasted like. And for the first few hours, it's great. But when you're like nine hours in and it's hot, yeah feeling like your pocket forever, it's terrible. you can' Yeah. You can't even get it down.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, but these new, um, I'm no expert on the science behind the nutrition. I just basically play around with stuff until I find stuff that works. And one time it might at work one time, it might not, but the precision stuff that I use. And also, do you know that in Morton? Have you heard that company? Not too sure. choice ah Morton M A U R T E N. So they're a pretty big company. So they're gels and precision gels that basically flavorless. And they call it, I think, the hydrogel technology. It's almost like it's solid. It's kind of like solid, but it's not. And it goes down so easy and there's no flavor. And I really like that because when I'm hot and you've been running for hours, they go down no problem because they almost have no texture and no flavor. Interesting. but Yeah. So they work pretty well for me. Um, because yeah, trying to, yeah cause i
00:55:27
Speaker
the The opposite of that to me is like, that I can't remember the product name, but there's some that are like almost like a thick chocolate. It's like, Oh my God, I can't. yeah Yeah. Like you say, it tastes great. The first one maybe, but then like try the fifth one or whatever, you know, it's like, Holy she's, I don't know if I can get this down any longer, yeah but so there's one from BPN, which is an American company. Oh, I know that. Yeah. His name is Nick, Nick nick bear. I think he's got tons of videos. I work with YouTube all the time. He's great. So good. Matt, he's incredible. What an incredible athlete. His running and his lifting is just unbelievable, but he has a gel that we've been buying. My daughter loves some, it's almost like applesauce, like baby sauce or like maybe applesauce or whatever. And it tastes so good. It doesn't taste too sweet. I don't know what's actually all in the ingredients, but it's great so far, but it's not like those thick gooey ones. No, no, but yeah, they, um, yeah, it might, yeah. Maybe fast forward, rewind like five races ago.
00:56:26
Speaker
i' i would't I'd have a very rough plan. I'd just be like, oh, I'm just going to eat when I feel like it and drink when I feel like it and just kind of feel it out. And for some people that works, but I've i found now you kind of have to have a plan and stick to it early. And then when the plan kind of falls apart as the race goes on, as it will, just because you're kind of like tired and you will find it hard to eat. If you've really stuck to that plan in like the first half, first two thirds, it's going to pay dividends at the end. That's kind of what I'm learning. Like if I can just be strict for at least two thirds of the race and try and hit those so's numbers that I've set, um instead of trying to wing it, when when it ultimately will start to fall apart a little bit at the end, you can kind of hold it together more, I find.
00:57:14
Speaker
that's That's fascinating. That's really really well said because ah one of the things that like I think you know said a few times on the podcast that the human body is pretty incredible, but one of the things that it seems to not do well sometimes is give you warning signs. So for instance, If you're thirsty, like if you feel thirsty, often I feel like that's too late. yeah Like at least it seemed like that when I was doing a bit. And it sounds like what you're trying to do there is you're trying to be ahead of the curve the whole way through in a systematic process so that when you're really suffering at the end, you're not having to catch up or it's too late as a fair assessment. Yeah. Because there is just no catching up at that point. Like you said, you can't
00:57:54
Speaker
you know, it's basically gone over the tipping point. In my opinion, and again, I've got no sight. But it just feels like you can't, especially if you want to kind of maintain the level you're running at for sure. If you stopped in an aid station for an hour, took on some calories, called yourself down, you might be able to get back. But if you want to keep pushing, once you're over that tipping point, there's no real going back. So getting it back. Yeah, it's, it's You can't catch back up, I guess. And, and that, and that's the thing that like I saying, like with the human body, like it can do so much, but if it's not giving you those warning signs, then yeah, you're, you're, you're in big trouble. And then especially something like what you're doing with the big hundred kilometer race, like that's yeah. And it's all one thing I found too. Sorry. It's, um, practicing with it. Like I overlooked that massively too. It's like you have a plan, but if you haven't practiced the plan.
00:58:52
Speaker
It's almost not worth having it in the first place. Like in terms of taking in, if you're going to say, I'm going to take in 70 grams of carbs an hour, if you haven't prepared your body for taking that amount in an hour, it's going to be so shocked when you do. And you're more likely to have GI distress. And I kind of overlooked that because you read so much stuff and you're like, Oh, you know, this guy's doing this. That seems like a good number. I'll aim for it. And if in training, you've only taken one gel an hour and then all of a sudden you're trying to reach It just does not work like that. You find out the hardware. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a great point. So I was going to, cause I was going to ask you about that is one of the things that like, you know, that I tried to stick to, and I actually tried to stick to this with a lot of things is like, I never change anything on, on like on a race day. I try to be like, okay, how I trained hopefully is going to be the same as race day. So if I'm doing a marathon, even, you know,
00:59:48
Speaker
I might drink their they fluids at their aid stations, but I tried to often like have enough, you know, for with me, especially in an Ironman, I'd pretty much only drink what I was bringing along or something equivalent to what they had. So if they're, if I knew they were, I don't know, drinking something like Gatorade, well, that might be what I would train on yeah in my training days. Do you find that's kind of the same where you try not to change too much on race day? Yeah, I think for the most part, um going through an aid station, I might take something off the table. For example, if I A bit of extra salt. If they have, I don't know, some salty chips or something, you know, you might grab one. But yeah, I normally have the stuff that I train with and race with. And then the only thing I normally take from, from the aid station is water, unless you get lucky and the sponsor of the event is the same as what you take. You know what I mean? So like if BPN was sponsoring the event, you'd be lucky because if you save all this money on gel, you'd just be taken from the, uh, from the thing.
01:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Do you find, yeah, so do you find too, like, uh, with your, your equipment, like, do you, do you have a certain like set, uh, bunch of, you know, a certain set things that you're using consistently that, that you try to stick with as well? Like, you know, whether it's shoes or, you know, backpack or what what's your kind of your sort of, um, tool list or equipment list that you generally run with? Yeah. So I have, um, the shoes are, The shoes I run in right now are the Hoka Speedcoats. So they just released a new pair. I don't i don't have the sixes yet. I just have the five still. No particular reason why I chose them apart from I have quite a wide foot and they do like a a wide fit. they I think the two E or something, the wide fit. Cause I get, I think it was from s ski patrol, but I have like weird bumpers like on my feet from like ski boots. So I just need like five wider at the front. It gets very uncomfortable. It's like a narrow fit.
01:01:40
Speaker
So anyone who's just like a wide fit, I'll try. Hoke or have a good wide fit. I know I used to run in Brooks because they had a nice wide fitting trail shoe, but they're the two I normally like. And then in terms of a hydration pack, I just run, what do I have now? Solomon has always been the one I go to. You can get real nitpicky. I have guys that buy them and try and stitch extra things on and to try and make it work. Yeah, I don't get to. complicated with it. As long as it fits everything and it fits well and it doesn't bounce and it's not gonna shave or annoy me, it doesn't really matter.
01:02:17
Speaker
keep it pretty simple yeah in that regard. That's what I try to do with a lot of my like more my so like hobbies. I try to get them running, and once they're running, then I'm good to go. I don't want to be fiddling with things. I always rather go do the thing than actually tweak stuff all along the way. yeah I've got hocus too. I think I have the same thing. I have a little bit wider foot, but I love them. They're but yeahre awesome. And yeah, the Solomon pack, they're great. I've got one. I haven't used it a lot, but it's nice because it has quite a bit of water on it too. Like you can have the two front pouches and pretty easy to utilize. Do you use like any fancy electronic equipment? I know you said you use Strava. Do you hook that to your watch or your phone? Yeah. So I just have the standard, like, um, what's this one called the Garmin Phoenix? fer phoenix yeahp Yeah. Uh, which I really like. Um, again, the technology, like I got this four years ago.
01:03:08
Speaker
And it was the best thing ever, but like the watch technologies come along so far. Like I don't, I don't know if this is cool or out of date. I don't really know, but uh, yeah, for me, the biggest one is just battery life. Like I don't know these races get longer and longer, right? And I don't know how long this will last. It says here it lasts 36 hours, but again, with GPS going, I don't know. I know there's some, um, there's another watch brand. What are they called chorus? I think that people are getting into now. which is like a Garmin, I think they have a really good battery life. But in terms of technology, just this, and then yes, rather, basically. That's basically it. yeah
01:03:50
Speaker
But I love the same. So I've got the same and thing. I've got a Phoenix too, and it's phenomenal. My daughter got me onto that. She's got one and it's great. It works on Strava. Trailforks is awesome as well. But for that, they all kind of connect. um And I have, I usually bring my phone. One thing that I bring with me is a Garmin inReach, like when I'm out of cell service. Do you guys find that you'd ever need something like that in sort of Australia there? Or are you pretty much always in cell service when they're running? No, so there are a couple of
Safety and Community in Running
01:04:21
Speaker
spots where I probably could have used an in reach. If it's a race, no problem, because they'll have, sometimes they'll give you trackers or they'll have it on your paper, whatever. Where I live, where I train, it's all good. I have been on hiking trips and stuff where you kind of, in the Victorian Alps, so in the Southern States, we have the Australian Alps kind of range, mountain range. You probably dip in and out of service there. So it's definitely worth, what is the,
01:04:48
Speaker
because there's like a range of them, right? Like what, which one do you have? Is it like kind of like a high grade one? I was looking at them.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, I have the little, it's like, it's a little, it's about that, about that big. It's a garment called a garment in reach. And then there is a plan to it. They have different tiers to their plan. So I think I pay about 30 bucks a month for it. And it's not the greatest in terms of like, it's a GPS device. So it'll hit the satellite when it can see them. It's usually pretty good that way, but you have to text whatever you're going to say to someone. So it's a little bit slow because you're kind of, it's not, it doesn't have like a keyboard on it. But it also has an SOS, like just a button. So if you hit that button, that'll send an emergency signal out to great help, you know, what you can do though, is you compare that with your phone. So then the phone allows you to more easily text to um like when you're sending a text out. So the phone will link to it and then you can type a lot easier, but it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I'm kind of hopeful for...
01:05:45
Speaker
What is it? Elon Musk's Starlink? Is that what it's called? Yeah. Like it's going to be like kind of a wifi system around the world. So that would be, I'm hopeful that that would be pretty cool. Like, and you have full on GPS everywhere, right? So yeah, that's right. Yeah. Cause I didn't think about getting in reach. I don't think I use it. Um, cause it's not really like Canada here where you'd be, cause you'd be out of service a lot, right? If you went walking. Uh, yeah. yeah like Well, I went mountain biking this morning. I was out of service almost the whole time. I threw the in reach in the back just in case. Cause I buy myself two years. So if I do you happen to have a big catastrophic injury, hopefully I can get some help. but It's kind of, and yeah what like what about for you? Oops. Sorry. I was just like, that's one thing you kind of like take for granted, I guess. And that's one thing. Um,
01:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, like going out, but like I go running by myself all the time and I never really think about it. If I was out of service and I got hurt, like what I do. Um, but yeah, I guess in Canada, you guys, it's so much more like obvious. Like it's, like you said, you're in the mountains, you're out self service all the time. So it's kind of like, it's almost common sense to you guys where it's not common sense over here. I feel you kind of have to, yeah, one thing too, when I first started mountain biking, you know, a little while back now, um, I would never see another mountain biker. So one thing that is interesting that we're talking about the changes in mountain biking, at least from what I've seen, is I see mountain bikers everywhere now. I think that that sports kind of growing. ah You know, I was even out today, there's I saw it not so much on the trails, but I probably saw like,
01:07:20
Speaker
10 or 15 guys you know in the parking lot and kind of getting going and shuttling. and and that so that' I think that sports really blowing up too. I mean, I could be wrong. i don't I'm not too in touch with like the trends or whatever. but yeah One question I was going to ask you is, ah so here like Sometimes I'll carry bear spray too. Like when I'm out biking, it's a little overkill, but I always think it's overkill until you run into like a bear and then it's not maybe, maybe it can help you. But, uh, so here we have bears, grizzly bears, um, like black bears, grizzly bears, cougars. What about Australia? Do you have wildlife that you're concerned about when you're down there or cause I think in crocodiles, but I, I don't know. ignorance bolge the australians I don't know kind of what it's like. So no, not, um,
01:08:06
Speaker
not Crocs, not where I'm from, not in a specific era I am. But yeah, it's always on the ah mandatory list to have a snake bandage. That's like guaranteed. Oh, really? Yeah, because you'll see them. You'll see them around when you're running. I haven't seen too many and I touch wood. I haven't had a friend or myself who's been bitten by one. um yeah It's one of those things that you'd probably just second nature, dropping the bottom of your pack when you head out because you don't want to be interesting. Yeah. Cause the, um, the snake venom, it travels. So it's, um, so the protocol when you get them by it saying you've got to stay still because I think it travels through the lymphatic system. If you, if you were to start moving, it makes it worse. So you really have to ah wrap it and compress it. So it's always worth having one. Um, but yeah, I've never stepped on one yet, but yeah, they could linger around in the grass around here. So yeah.
01:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. So is that like almost like a tourniquet then where it slows like the venom from getting through to the rest of the body or? I think so. Again, if anyone Australian is listening to me, I'm doing a terrible job of explaining, but yeah, you basically just wrap it and compress it. So you stop to stay still, not to move. So it doesn't get like pumped around. I think that's the general procedure. Interesting. So that's fascinating. I know like actually in a Soyuz, there's poisonous snakes up there up in the Okanagan. There is big poisonous snakes up there. So that's an interesting comparison. But what about, is there any other wildlife that you worry about or just pretty much snakes?
01:09:39
Speaker
That's really us to worry about. Yeah. What is it? Like I'm relatively new to this country, but I always, um, make a joke. It's just literally just a long list of things in this country that can kill you. It's insane. like Yeah. Yeah. That's we went to spider. Yeah, just everything. It's like we went to when I moved here, my wife, she was from, uh, Cairns, which is like, um, north, like queen by the reef. And I'm thinking we're going to go there. We're going to swim in this blue water. And she's like, no, you can't swim, but you can't go in. Why? Because it's like the stingers that will kill you with like one tiny, like if you want to go in the water, you got to have like a full suit on. I was like, this place is great. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful water. And then you got like, what is it? Like those rockfish or whatever you step on them and they're like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's it's it's a whole other set of things to kind of consider.
01:10:34
Speaker
Now, like you've got this big event coming up next in France. Do you have any other sort of long time goals that you're thinking about for running and, and adventures? Uh, what do, um, I'm just trying to see. So basically for this I think what I'd like to do is this kind of like a list of races I'd like to do. So like I said, there's three big ones in Australia and the one in New Zealand. I'd like to do those. Um, like I said, because it's a hobby first, I do like, it's kind of an excuse to travel. It's like a reason to go to a destination, which is nice. So there's like, there's a big race in Thailand, which is like basically one of the big ones for our region as well, where a lot of people will go yeah to try and qualify. And cause I was going to ask you that you said you've done a bit of crewing, some crewing with your daughter.
01:11:26
Speaker
Like for just move my daughter just a little bit. Yeah, I'm very fortunate. My my wife cruised me and she enjoys it. Did you enjoy it? Yeah. It's fun, right? Yeah, it was great. The one thing that was good was she was so prepared ah for this one, this last big race that we did for her. She had all her kits laid out. So it was quite easy. We just made sure we had her food good or drinks good. And we were at the correct location. She had it all mapped out for us. So it was really, really good. I enjoyed it. It was, it was awesome. Yeah. it was yeah
01:11:57
Speaker
It's something to see the runners doing their thing. And like, I mean, those are big races. I was still blown away at a hundred K races. Like you guys do. That's amazing. Yeah. Very humbling. Very humbling. It's a lot of fun though. It's like it's it's massively inspiring to me. Cause I think it's harder to be out there longer. So like when, when you go to these races, you'll come back the morning after to the finish and there'll be like people in their nineties. like coming through. yeah Like it's insane. It's so good. It's very similar, I guess, to what they call it at the Ironman, right? Like golden hour or whatever they call it where people are coming through before the time. It's so inspiring to me. Yeah. How people, just normal people who have normal jobs come out and find the time to train and do it. And yeah, it's great. But in terms of, people to me yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
01:12:48
Speaker
It's incredible. I know what you mean because when I, when I did Ironman that like that last hour, we always would stick around and watch everybody coming through that have been out for all dates. It is and just environment. The people are so like friendly and welcoming and you know, encouraging, right? So yeah, that's awesome. i I love it. I always get into like certain people like because obviously we talked about, you know, the price associated with doing a race. And like people will say to me, like, why don't you just, you could just do that on your own. Like you just, you could just go run a hundred K. on any day but when you're there you feel that community and everybody's there for exactly the same reason and everybody's got a story and everyone's worked their arse off to be there and up and down it's just
01:13:32
Speaker
i kind Yeah, it's hard to describe. It's hard to describe to somebody. It's just, yeah, it's fun. Yeah. I think like that you kind of nailed it there because yeah, you could go to a hundred K run on your own and you do, you know, if you wanted to, you could do that. But having that end goal, that's what kind of makes a journey along to that so worthwhile because You know, a couple of marathons that I've done, it it's like once you get there and you do it, that's a great feeling, but it's really that journey along the way to try to do that. And you're also trying to perform the best that you can on the day of, you know, like, yeah whether you're a recreational athlete or more, you know, elite athlete, like yourself, where you're doing like, you know, fast tempo running and all those kinds of things. You're always trying to push your your boundaries, right? So yeah's it's nice to have something to look forward to you as well. Like a race day. Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:21
Speaker
But yeah, I'm sorry. I kind of got sidetracked, but yeah, big, um, running goals. I wouldn't say I have a massive goal. I'd like to, um, yeah, do those big races in this area. hopefully Um, I would like to qualify for the big UTMB race at some point. I think there might be a little bit of a window where I might be able to sneak in. I think as
Martial Arts and Personal Growth
01:14:44
Speaker
it becomes more competitive, I think in five years, the sport will be unrecognizable. You can see it now that are coming into it. I would say like you, do you say you do jujitsu? Yeah. Yeah. So it's similar. I watched a little bit like and MMA and stuff, watching it 10 years ago to now. It's like kids who train everything. The difference is just like, it's crazy. The kids nowadays in jujitsu, they are unreal. The past generation was amazing. Of course you got even like, you know, back to Hicks and Gracie and the guy that I'm under,
01:15:18
Speaker
I'm very recreational. As a Blackwell, I make sure I put that up front. I just do it for fun. But I'm under a professional fighter. He's one of the best in the world. And he lives in Langley, BC, but he's one of the best in the world. One of the best all-time jujitsu guys. So he's he's incredible. He's incredible to watch. His athleticism speed is unreal. and But that being said, ah the new kids coming up are amazing. Like I've been lucky to meet guys like Mika Galvel, the Rotola brothers there. They've been doing this since they were like five years old. And they're just, they you know, with all the tutorials out there now, that's really been a game changer. So people can just go online and watch the best guys in the world teach jujitsu. So I imagine it's the same in trail running. You must just be blown away at some of the up and comers as well. Like I said,
01:16:07
Speaker
I'm relatively decent, but I am recreational at the same time. But you just see it every now and again, though, just be someone come in, who's just an unbelievable athlete trains really hard. And you could just kind of see the level right in front of your eyes. It used to be here. And now it's all of a sudden it's here. Yeah, the ultra Australia, I think two years ago, they had to completely reroute the course because we had terrible floods in Australia. And they couldn't let anybody on the cliff side, it was too dangerous. So it basically turned into this like out and back kind of fire road trail race, which is unfortunate for people who have, who have traveled all the way, but you know, the community got together and they, they did it anyway. But the guy who wanted, the guy who won it was just like, it's like a two 12 marathon guy and he just blew everybody away. And like, and you see it and those types of people are coming in to the sport and it's awesome because it just like keeps growing. But, um, but yeah, like, um, I was, I was also going to ask one of my questions for you.
01:17:06
Speaker
Like I was saying, there's a huge boom in running right now. So people are coming into the sport, and they kind of like dipping the tone and coming out. Do you find with the growth of like UFC MMA, like jujitsu, like gym, they're quite transient, like people just come and go and like, you know what I mean? Like it's people, you know, That's a good question. The gyms locally, they seem to be more and more popping up. like For instance, in Langley, British Columbia, we've got, I think, four or more big gyms now. All very reputable, all really good guys. ah There's one in Pit Meadows on guard. they're They're amazing too. So there's a lot of really good gyms in the lower mainland, which I would imagine like guys that have been doing it like longer than I have like 20 years ago.
01:17:52
Speaker
there might have been one gym, you know, like in the whole lower mainland. So it's, it's really been a boom in terms of how many people are doing it. Although I still think it's a little bit niche compared to things like, you know, ice hockey in Canada is huge, right? But, and there's lots of people that come into the sport, but, but jujitsu, I always say with jujitsu, the hard part with it is learning how to learn jujitsu. And, and so sometimes guys come in, they'll be in for a year or two, they don't maybe figure out how to connect the dots and then they might fall off. It's endless it's an endless learning kind of a thing that that you could do it your whole life and you won't learn the whole, all of it, right? There's always new moves being made and innovations. But yeah, so it's, I think it's definitely growing there. I've seen way more gyms now than when I first started. like yeah So yeah, it's definitely grown in popularity overall. But and he a general like I don't know the order of the belt, but like, if you were,
01:18:47
Speaker
Do people like get to get from like a beginner to blue belt would take a long time, but to go from like blue to black is like a whole world. Like it's a, that's like dedicating yeah decades, right? I would assume. yeah trying to it Every gym has a little bit different way that they will promote and some are a little bit easier. Some are very difficult. Some are kind of in the middle. But generally, you want to see proficiency in your belt stripes. So in Jiu-Jitsu, it'll go like white, blue, purple, brown, black. And I always think of it that if you're going to blue belt, you should be able to hang with the blue belts around you at your weight category. Like, you know, you might be tapping them once in a while, they might be tapping you out once in a while.
01:19:28
Speaker
but you're generally kind of able to hang in that category. And same thing with purple, brown, black. You should be able to, for the most part, hang with at least the people within your weight category, maybe a little bit above your weight category, but you should be in there now. That being said, but this you might have a blue belt that's like a, has a black belt. One skill is black belt level, just because you've been really, really good at it. And as they advance, they're going to acquire more and more of those. So when you get to black belt, like not all black belts are going to be like, Perficient in every single move in jujitsu but they're gonna be very very well with first in the fundamentals it's funny because i often think that when you get to black belt level you hear a lot of black belt say the learning just started and yeah it sounds so cliche because it takes roughly.
01:20:14
Speaker
good 10 years to get there. But it's very true because now you have a good fundamental base to work off of. And then from there, you can start really trying to refine it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's a great endeavor. And so I miss it. I haven't been training for a few months now, about like three to six months. So it's like, man, I just really miss it. But, uh, on the same token, I'm enjoying getting back into mountain biking and taking that a little more seriously to your right. So yeah yeah, it's been, it's been really good. And then Jujutsu is awesome. It's, it's great for, it's great for the soul. I did, I did think about it, but like, yeah, how many hobbies can you have? You know what I mean? I just kind of know, I know I get really into it. And it's like, I kind of like that too, though, I did speak to a good friend of mine that I run with. And he says, Sean, you know, I don't plan on being, you know, invested in running my whole life, like I might find another passion and go in that direction. And it's kind of nice that, yeah you know, maybe one day might try something else. And it's always fun to learn something new, though.
01:21:09
Speaker
I do enjoy that. Um, well, what did the, um, I started when I was 38. Yeah. Yeah. I started 38. I'm 53 now. So I, I had a year or two off in there. So I've got about 11 or 12, maybe 13 years of training time in there. Again. very recreational some days would be only once a week cuz i had kids going on some days would be like five days a week is depending on but again i'm i'm nothing like, some of the guys that i train with there is phenomenal like there is some guys out there that are pretty incredible um do you have to train for the training or is it going to the jiu-jitsu training in itself if i make sense do you have to get strong to be in there or do you just kinda turn up.
01:21:53
Speaker
That's a great question. i guess Yeah, so it's it's um yeah definitely like you can't you definitely outside of Jiu-Jitsu, I'd say weights, cardio, all those good things in fitness world, like running, all those things are great. Those are great additions to have to do Jiu-Jitsu. But to get good and to feel like, and to be fit, you need to, like, for you just, you have to do it. You have to roll a lot. So in my opinion, you got to drill, you got to roll, because it's just such a dynamic sport. I mean, you're using muscles that you are hard to replicate in other, um, endeavors. And, uh, you know, you know, a five minute roll is hard, right? Like when you've got someone trying to tack you out, like you're moving in many, like 360 different.
01:22:38
Speaker
degrees in the direction so that's something that you have to build towards another part of it is you the more you learn about jiu-jitsu and the better the more time you put in the more efficient you become at it which i would assume would be very similar to trail running or or like cycling or or hot ice hockey or whatever but you get a bit more efficient in your arm. Your ability to to roll where you're not ah you know, you're not super tense You're you've got a game plan and and sometimes when you like and again, I've never been good at jujitsu But when I've been kind of things have been clicking I'm able to move much more efficiently to the positions I want to go to so that I can capitalize on someone else's mistakes so I can feel where they're gonna go and Really good Blackwell's what they do is they set you up. They set you up for instance. They might
01:23:26
Speaker
hit you with an arm bar. They know you're going to react to that arm bar and then that sets you up from them taking your back. So they'll they'll make you move the way they want. but It's more of a reactionary kind of a thing where you're reacting to their attack and now that's exactly what they wanted you to do. So one of the guys I'm hoping to have on the podcast soon that I've trained with a lot is a pro fighter named Jared Revell. And that guy is incredible. He's a good friend, but he's, um, I've had him on my back for about a hundred hours, like tapping me out over and over and over. But what he'll do is effortlessly make you move where, where you were like, so that you react to what he's doing and defense. And then now that falls into another trap. And then, yeah. And then it's generally over pretty fast, but yeah yeah, it's a ton of fun. yes Yeah. i I definitely like to try it. Yeah. Just, um, yeah to get a getting too, too into it, you know,
01:24:19
Speaker
I think it's hard to do everything I know. do you um Do you recommend it for, sorry, I'm asking you too many questions about it. Oh, it's okay. No, it's all good. um Do you think it's a good martial art for children to learn? Like out of all the martial arts, do you think that's the one that? I don't know about like against other martial arts. I would say though, it is a good, it is good. um As long as you, the big thing is I always think you want to have solid instructors that are, um, you know, uh, you know, careful with the kids of course, and, and that they're getting good curriculum. And like they, not even just for kids, but for like adults too, is like the training environment that you go into has to be such that you trust your training partners, that you have good culture around you. So sometimes like someone that's new to wanting to get into jujitsu,
01:25:13
Speaker
I'd maybe recommend try a bunch of gyms out and just see, you know, how you like them. See what, you know, it's nice if you can go to one with some buddies where like they're all kind of, you know, that you're kind of there together. But yeah, so having good instructors, having a good curriculum, it's definitely, it's definitely good. And yeah, for kids, I think it's great. ah Another one that I think is awesome is wrestling, like, ah you know, like, like collegiate wrestling and that kind of thing. Like high school wrestling is really powerful. Those are powerful martial arts for sure. there's There's, I don't know, I don't like to be too critical, but I think sometimes there's fantasy martial arts, which are yeah fun for people and good. But then there's also very, very honest martial arts. And I would suggest that like things like, you know, full contact boxing, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, those are all very honest and same to kickboxing too. Movie tie as well. like
01:26:02
Speaker
Yeah. Incredible martial arts, right? But yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah yeah. Tons of fun. Yeah, that kind of like reality, I guess. um like yeah if you If you look to the USC and you see what they're generally using, I think it's a pretty good indicator of what actually is effective, right? And and generally, I'm not going to say for sure, but I would suggest Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing, Louis Kai, karate, those those are like solid choices, right? yeah but tech Yeah, it's interesting. the reason The reason I asked you is I was just curious with um
01:26:39
Speaker
with injuries and stuff, whether people, kids starting so young, whether they yeah get injured or anything like that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Injuries are definitely a part of Jiu-Jitsu for sure. Of course, the more flexible you are, that maybe maybe a little bit are done. Another great martial art is Judo. Judo is phenomenal, but I was advised not to do judo too much, like when I started at 38 and we do, we would work on takedowns and throws in jujitsu, but much less than judo. Judo very, that's like, that's the key center focus of that martial art I would suggest. And, um, but it's an incredible martial art. Like they, they're, they're amazing. Those guys are incredibly good. Um, Um, but again, that's like high throws, high risk, you know, so, yeah and, and say what you did. So you get, you can get injured in that for sure. I've had tons injuries from, from that for sure. But I would say, I mean, you could get injuries in ice hockey or mountain biking, you know, it's, it's all kind of, it's, it's, it's yeah. Oh, part of it. It's a full contact sport. Right. So yeah. So yeah, it's great. I'd recommend it to anyone. It's it's awesome.
01:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, maybe one day. Yeah, yeah honestly, give give it a try. It's it's great um when you're ready for it. It's it's it's awesome. it's I always think it's very empowering. It's it's good for um and it's also it kind of opens your eyes up to what What's out there? They're actually one of the great, I don't know if he'd be anywhere near you, but one of the great jujitsu practitioners and teachers in the world is Lachlan Giles. And he's from Australia. ah living And he's phenomenal. Yep. Yep. He's phenomenal. Yeah. Wow. He he worked with c Craig Jones, I believe. And, uh, he's another top guy, but yeah. Yeah. It's probably quite a bit of, quite a bit of it. I think that's me too. Like if you went to do it and you realized it's just, um,
01:28:31
Speaker
a group of people out there who could literally just not handle it, you know what I mean? Yeah, it makes you feel very wrong. yeah Yeah. It, that being said, you know, like a lot of guys, not always, but a lot of guys in jujitsu, like, and, and the, like, a lot of the fighters that I've been around, they're some of the most humble guys on the planet. And, you know, not always, of course, like anything, but, and I think, you know, like they're, they know kind of where they stand and they don't, you know, they don't necessarily want to have a fight. Right. Cause they, they do it seriously and they're sport and they don't want to have problems. Right. So the best thing to do is always just to avoid altercation. I don't know if you can. right yeah
Endurance Training Insights
01:29:09
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so a couple other things I was going to say or ask you about is because you've been doing it a long time ah with your running and and you you've kind of gotten to this stage where you're, you know, you're having lots of success with with your um results. Do you have advice for like other maybe up and coming runners that are like young that are just starting out? Anything that comes to mind that you would did did you sort of suggest to them?
01:29:37
Speaker
um Yeah, young runners, obviously consistency, but also be patient, build up slowly. Again, I only really started, like I've always been kind of into endurance sports. Like I kind of said to you more like a bit of a weekend warrior, like dipping in and out. But if I was to commit myself to running, let's say in my late teens, I think the advice I'd want is you don't need to go and try and do 100 mile weeks, you know what I mean? Like just give you time give your body time to kind of evolve and adapt and grow. And just if you can be consistent and stay relatively injury free over the years, you know, by the time you get into your mid to late 20s where you've really built that aerobic engine and you have that huge foundation to then launch yourself off of, I think that's going to be
01:30:36
Speaker
the difference. So yeah, my advice would be just be patient. You don't need to look at everyone on Instagram or Strava doing God knows how many miles they are a week because yeah, unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. Especially for me, like I just can't. There's a guy, he's like my idol. It's like a guy in his 40s named Andy Day. He lives just down the road from me. And I'm jealous because he run commutes to work. And he's a fantastic owner. He's um I think a true 28 marathon guys in his 40s. Um, but he'll win wow he'll he'll won a hundred he'll win like K trail race. He'll, he'll do this. He'll do that. And he's been hitting like 170, 180 kilometer weeks, but like came about like, I don't know how many years and he's so consistent. But I, but I asked him, I was like, Oh, how do you get so much? involved and He said, Sean, look, I've been building that volume up for God knows how, like God knows how long, like you can't just jump in. So yeah, he young.
01:31:34
Speaker
You don't need to be doing crazy mileage. Your body's still growing just slowly and be patient. Honestly, I'm not professional, but it takes years. If you talk to some guys who have a really good race, they'll probably say to you, but this has been building five years. now I had a really good year and then I i managed to build up on that and I've remained injury free throughout it. And then it kind of builds that way. You just got to try to be consistent the whole way through. Um, yeah. Yeah, that makes that makes so much sense. Yeah. Yeah. It makes so much sense because it's it's a long game. And going back to jujitsu, that's the same in my opinion. That's a long game too. the to To like to survive the gauntlet of rules and hard and for me, that's kind of one of my biggest things is I tried to like really like we have had lot tons and tons of hard rules, but I tried to stay injury free. And I would see people come and go out of the sport. And I just tried to be consistent as well. Just try to like show up, try to learn, try to get better. I would, it sounds like the same kind of thing goes with a trail running where you're trying to like put that time in and build that volume up. And it's funny because what reminded me of when you're chatting there is that I've seen a lot of guys say, um, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to go into, do a marathon. Oh, that's awesome. Like, I think everyone should give it, give it a try. So much fun. And then they'll go off and they'll do the local, I don't know, they'll go to a local running store.
01:32:59
Speaker
And they'll jump in on their, their runs. And before, you know, they're, they're competing against the guys that are running there. And three weeks later, they're injured because their knee hurts. And it's like, yeah, man, like your body he wasn't ready to go hard. Like, yes, your muscles could have done it maybe, but like, it wasn't built. It's not built for that yet. Is that kind of like, have you seen that in your travels a little bit? Oh, all the time. I think that's with any sport. It's just, yeah, especially now, like, I don't know what it's like in Canada, but since COVID, I think. just run clubs. And it's great to see I love the growth of the community. But the amount of people into running now coming from just coming straight off the couch of getting into running, it's huge, which again is great. But you you need to have an honest assessment of where you're at. Before you start jumping in and thinking you're gonna
01:33:49
Speaker
you know, run 100k. I'm not saying you can't do it because because people will come and not just want to complete it. And if you just want to walk 100 kilometers, you know, you might beat your body up a bit, but you'll do it and you'll achieve your goal, which is great. But if you're really trying to get the best out of yourself, it's, it's just, it's just slow progress. It's just takes ages to, to yeah, you're going to have good races, bad races, but yeah, it's just building up that volume over time. If you're going to stop, you can't jump in like you can't read a generic marathon. training block and be like, Oh, I'm going to do, you know, two interval sessions a week. Cause by week three, if you're doing them properly, like an interval session, yeah you need to be going up to really get those adaptations. You need to be going hard. You're going to end up in a on the floor by week. If you know, you know, third week and then you lose interest and it always out the window. So yeah, just be yeah yeah patient.
01:34:45
Speaker
It's funny because when i so when i the little bit of endurance racing I did, I really tried to take that patience approach and it worked well for like the little bit that I did where I would i might gradually build my volume by like, I don't know, 3 to 5%, you know, over a couple of weeks kind of thing. And just over the long run, that seemed to really pay off. And it's funny because during that little bit of time, I think I was kind of doing that for five years. I saw a lot of people try to come in and then they were just broken within a month or so. And, uh, yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's something you've got to, like you say, you got to be patient, patient with, and especially something like a hundred kilometer race. Now that's just, that's wild. Like it's takes forever to, to me, it takes a little, it would take a long time to get to that point where it could run a hundred K. Again, through my, I haven't done too many road races, but one thing I always say to people,
01:35:36
Speaker
just in my opinion, I think the road marathon is way harder than doing a hundred kilometer because it's just a whole different thing. Like with the, with the, um, if you want to try and run the road marathon fast, you really are just revving the engine and holding, holding it at that kind of threshold for 42 kilometers, 26 miles. Whereas the hundred kilometers actually trail it's a bit more like you're obviously working, you know, kind of, towards your aerobic threshold, but it's just more moderate. Like the day kind of ebbs and flows, like you'll have good points, you'll have bad points. It all kind of comes together in the end. Whereas a road map to me sounds so stressful because if you're trying to hit a time, you can't really afford to make any mistakes. You just like trying to like go the whole time. Whereas in a hundred kilometer, you can make mistakes. You can get it back. Someone can make a mistake. you can
01:36:29
Speaker
have a good last section. So, um, and like wrote martin again but yes so it sounds stressful. Like if you really set a goal, cause with, with trail running, I feel like there's really no, there's no pace. You're just kind of going to finish when you're going to finish. And if you put together the best day, because you don't know that you might say, I want to run this in 10 hours. If it chucks it down with rain all day and ever, and it's slippy and you're exerting more energy, you trying to get up hills and stuff, I'll get downhill. It's the same for everyone. So your time is kind of going to go out the windows. It's just really about putting together a good day, whatever that may look like. Interesting. interesting So it's got a bit more flexibility to it. Um, so yeah, pace kind of goes out the window, I guess for certain sections, if you know them really well, you're like, Oh, there's this 20 K flattish section. You know, I'm going to drop the hammer here and I'm going to try and hold some like splits to get away, you know, but as the whole day, There's too many variables going on in the trail race. That's really fascinating. That's yeah. Interesting. Really, really good. Cause like you say, if you're running a marathon, it's generally pretty stable. Like you're running a pavement and yeah, you're going to know the hills and that ahead of time. So you can pace yourself through that. But, but with such a big daunting task of a a hundred K trail race.
01:37:48
Speaker
You've got different train, like you said in that the one you did in Australia there. um the ah You've got ladders, you've got steps, you've got steps you got like tons of different things to kind of contend with. That's fascinating. You might not quite know what your time's going to be. and And that's why a lot of people, a lot of coaches will preach trail running training is because a lot of people are into like heart rate training, like zones and stuff like that. And I feel like they have that place and they're a nice kind of like data point to check in where you're at. But a lot of people with trail running just go by perceived effort because that perceived effort it will change based on the terrain um you're on. Um, so if you have a scale of, increase set like zero to 10, um, and you kind of have those rough zones within what that perceived effort feels like, they normally bring perceived effort. Um, if you're breathing, so a conversational pace, or you can speak in single words or you can speak in paragraphs, something like that, if you can kind of
01:38:46
Speaker
understand perceived effort. Um, it makes trail running or training a lot easier because you're not worrying about all my heart rates high here or, you know, that would be so kind of understanding where your effort levels are because you might be running one yeah and then it has a big, big hill. Your heart rate's naturally going to go up anyway, but if you can kind of control your effort and understand what that feels like, it just makes the whole thing more achievable. It makes more sense in that light, I think. Yeah. So you don't blow up or whatnot. Yeah. That makes total sense. It's interesting because I've used heart rates for most of my training. Well, I've used heart rates for years and years and I generally go by a little bit of heart rate, but it's funny. They could do a bit of mountain biking lately and doing the climbs in, I'm like blowing up as I'm going up. So like today, for instance, when I went out, I actually specifically kept my heart rate down like 145 ish, 150, maybe just kind of really nice, really easy. and climbed and it was good, but whereas like lately you know grinding it out a little harder to be like up to 160, which is pretty high for me at my age, and like I'm definitely feeling it. But what you're saying is it's you guys will more use perceived effort, like just how you're feeling, how ah you're breathing, and then carry on from there. yeah That's interesting. Yeah, just because your heart rate, it's just going to...
01:40:09
Speaker
If you're running on a flat piece of road, you're kind of controlling all of the other variables. You can say like, okay, I'm going to do some like VO two max or some like interval level like efforts. So according to like yeah a zone method, I need to get my heart rate up to, you know, 170. So I'm just going to hammer down the flat road. I'm going to get my heart rate up. I'm going to hold it there. I'm going to rest going to repeat words. If you go out and do that on a trail, you know, there might be some downhill sections where just naturally your heart rate, it's going to be hard to try and hold like a high heart rate for an incident with like changing terrain. So if you just save yourself overall, if I can keep my perceived effort high, then all those kind of ups and downs will kind of just like iron themselves out and you've kind of had a decent session, I guess. But again, it's such a new sport. The much smarter people than me are trying to work it out.
01:41:06
Speaker
you know trying to get the training dial yeah but people get it get all dialed and What do you think about
Inspiration and Future Goals
01:41:12
Speaker
these? Like, so we were talking earlier about how big the races have gotten. What do you think about, like, uh, one of the guys I follow on Instagram is, uh, Cameron Haynes. He's a big hunter hunter, but he's also a big, big endurance athlete. And, um, he's done like 240 mile runs through the Rockies. Like, like, have you, have you, have you, have you looked at those much or, or talk to guys that have done those? So I have.
01:41:38
Speaker
So there's a lady, Joanna, who's in our run group. She's incredible. She just went out last weekend and did 375 kilometer SKT on some of our... like She's great, she's so good. She's got that kind of like diesel engine. She'll just like go, like just keep that same pace all day. She was recently at... What's the... There's one called Cocodona 200, I think. in America. She went to do the 120 miler there. I think she got second. She's yeah, she's incredible. But she likes those big races. She's already good at those. Yeah, for me, I don't know. I kind of like the 100 K's kind of become like the marathon of like the drowning thing because people are starting to figure it out now. Like they're fast enough
01:42:34
Speaker
Sorry, they're short enough. I know it sounds ridiculous. They're short enough that you can kind of perform really well, but they're long enough that it's not always the most talented person that's going to win. So I kind of like the 100K because it's almost that perfect distance where you can really kind of perfect it. Those longer stuff, I like the idea of them. I don't know whether I will eventually get into them. They blow my mind. They just blow my mind like 240 miles through the Rockies. Like I just, yeah I can't even comprehend that. Yeah. But there are some, like there are some just amazing trails that I'd like to do. If time will allow it and family time and all that kind of stuff will allow it. But like, for example, in America, they have, um, they have just like a circuit that goes around Lake Tahoe, which is like 200 miles. And I always think like it would be amazing if just a couple of buddies
01:43:26
Speaker
We went out and tried to run it, like things like that. Exciting. Yeah, for sure. Like ah Grand Canyon, rim to rim to rim, like stuff like that. It's like just fun trails you can do. Um, we are racing 200 miles. I feel like it almost becomes like a. sleep deprivation exercise. It's like, who can do this without sleep? Yeah. Yeah. who Who's, who's going to be able to stay up the longest, right? One of the things, and, uh, I don't know that I'll do this or not, but one of the things that I'm kind of interested in is doing a, uh, 24 hour mountain bike race. I think that'd be pretty, pretty awesome. Like, uh, I don't know that I have it in me or not, but I've kind of, kind of like you know thinking about it right at this kind of more of the thinking about it stage, but, uh,
01:44:08
Speaker
I think that'd be pretty fun to try. So how do they work? Is that on like a loop? And after 24 hours, they just stop it and how far you've got? Is that how they do it? Yeah, I believe so. So I'm still trying to figure out like, I'm trying to figure out where the races are. Because it seems like some of these races pop up and then they're gone the next year. But most of them, it seems like they're a loop of about 10 or 15 k and i think about 500 meters to of elevation gain each time but i'm not 100% sure because i might be quite different in arizona than it is in like say kenmore in bc or whatever but i'm,
01:44:46
Speaker
The, and then it's, it's how many laps you do. And, uh, and so like some of these guys are doing like crazy numbers, like 22 laps and 24 hours kind of thing, which is for me, I'd be like, I wouldn't even be close to that. I mean, half of that maybe, but yeah, so it sounds pretty awesome, but that also involves a lot of like figuring it out, like what you've had to do with your hundred K race, like figuring out out how you're going to race, uh, in terms of just. Like night racing and training and all that kind of stuff too, right? So yeah, I don't know. It's a bit of a daunting one, but they're kind of ah interested in that. So it have on be those kind of races, I always feel like you need a really good plan, especially on loop, I feel, because you almost have to obviously train, have a plan, assess where you're at, and then trust, have trust in the plan and let people go.
01:45:40
Speaker
Like if you, like it happens all the time in races, like you're, you fit, you're ready to go and people are just blasting past you and your ego wants to chase them down because you've trained hard and you look way fitter than they do. And you shouldn't be getting beat, but you have to trust that in 50, 60 K's time. They're going to be going backwards. They're going to be going backwards. yeah And I feel like with a loop race, people would just be hammering loops and then you stick to the plant, stick to the plant. And then by the time 13, 14 hours rolls around, they might be dropped out and then you just slowly Yeah. I love it. So good. Slowly kind of wear it. Yeah. I 100% agree. I think that makes total sense because it'd be so easy to just like hammer that flap out and you're destroyed by lap five or six. Yeah. yeah That's that's so awesome. That's awesome. I know. Thank you so much. We're closing in on a couple of hours here, which has gone by so fast. I was going to ask you, one of the things I ask everybody is, uh,
01:46:34
Speaker
Did you drink coffee, right? or no Yeah. yeah um Chris Mark did and he drank tea. So I was chirping on the guy a little bit because I like tea too though, but Ted, it's fun. ah If you were to have a cup of coffee with anyone alive or past, ah you know, anywhere in the world, does someone come to mind who you'd want to have coffee with? Who would I want to have coffee with? I really want to say an athlete, but I always get like meeting like my heroes. Would I be disappointed? You know what I mean? It's like yeah this idea of what they're like in my head. um yeah Probably be some kind of, who would it be? Some kind of athlete.
01:47:19
Speaker
I know it's a tricky, it's a tricky one, right? But I you one i try to ask everyone that, cause I find it, it's one of, for me, I've been telling everybody, I'm, I'm big into Napoleon right now. And I just listened to his, a huge autobiography on him. And I'd love to, uh, you know, go back in time and like be in one of his tents, you know, maybe a few days outside of one of his big bottles and just sit down, have a cup of coffee and just like, Hey, like just chitchat about, uh, the thing with him and kind of, I'm a bit of a broken record, but it's not just his. The battles that were interesting, it's actually the rest of his life that was fascinating. It's like like someone that's lived a hundred lives in one life. Right. And, uh, I found, I think he'd be pretty fascinating individual to kind of, to kind of meet, you know, but, uh, who would I, who would I want to meet? God, it'd be so easy for me just to say like a runner I like right now, but I'm trying to come up with some, some better, uh, some better, no
Reflective Ending and Future Plans
01:48:14
Speaker
worries. Um, it will probably, who would it be? Uh, maybe.
01:48:20
Speaker
Maybe like an old British Olympian, I'm trying to think of like, like, we had some Olympians, like Steve Redgrave, for example, very, very, he was an elite rower for great, britain but he's kind of won many goals in the rowing. But he's kind of like part of that, like old guys, where, yeah, just tough, gritty guy. Yeah, let's go with that. Yeah. but yeah that like Chris Mark had a great one. Man, I hate, I hate it when I forget names, but it was a British explorer, still alive. And it was fascinating. It was like, and it's funny because I'm listening to a book right now on Shackleton and that, that fella, it's iss Ralph something I can't remember. reize ralph ralph fineness and so like that finish Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
01:49:08
Speaker
very much Yeah. And I thought, what a great answer because it's like, um, what an incredible individual he would be to meet and to chat with. Right. But, uh, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I think, yeah, someone, yeah, someone from the previous generation, high level athlete, like Steve Raygrove, for example, just, yeah, just hear about the, the tough stories. It's always inspiring. Like people, like people who perform. performed at such a high level, but in absence of all like the technology and stuff we have today, just like, yeah just have to be super gritty, super hardworking, really like, yeah, I think that would be cool to see what they kind of hear what they think about sport today, and athletes today, and how it's all about brand and ah kind of stuff.
01:49:55
Speaker
It would be really fascinating to talk to someone like that just to compare modern training methodologies to what they did. I bet you there's quite a bit that's similar, you know, and and then there's probably some other things that we've come a long ways on, but yeah. And, and also to hear about their adventures because I'm sure some of the. things weren't aren't quite as, you know, like, you know, maybe a little bit more dangerous or, you know, whatever, like depending on what their sport was, what type of training that they were doing. But yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. but yeah That's awesome. And thank you so much. I, I, um,
01:50:30
Speaker
I think we've covered a lot of ground today. It's been great. It's been, it's been fantastic just having you on and chatting and like, it'd be great to have you on again, maybe in the future, if you know, maybe, you know, in a year's time after you do your big race in France. And yeah, it'd be great to be on my jujitsu journey by then. I should come on after I've had my first flight. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. yeah Definitely give it a try. I think you'll find it. What I found with jujitsu, one of the biggest benefits that I miss is I found it was almost like forced meditation in that I would go into a class and I'd come out of classes sometimes and I'm like, I don't even know what day it is. Like we're, what do I got to do now? Because it's such an immersive endeavor. You have no choice but to focus on what you're doing because the other guys trying to choke you out or talking to you. Yeah. so yeah it's
01:51:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. It's good. It's a ton of fun. Well, yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, it's great. It's been great. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and ah chat about it and best of luck in your upcoming races and your trip to France. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, good luck with your, uh, 24 hour race. Hopefully you get it done. Yeah. Hopefully we'll see if I, uh, if I pursue that, it probably won't be for another year, but, uh, if I do do it, but, uh, it's, it's definitely something I'm definitely, uh, toying with right now. So it's either go back to jujitsu or do that. I'm not too sure yet. Thanks. Cool. Anyway, take thanks. Thanks so much.