Transcript
Danny Price: everybody, welcome to episode six of the Table Talk Recap Podcast. We're going to jump right in. So this week we're still in our foundation series. This is week three. ah And we're going through, again, for those of you who haven't listened to this so far, we're going through the EFCAs, which were a part of their doctrinal statements.
Danny Price: um This week technically should have been The Condition of Man, which is about sin, but we literally just got out of a series before we started this about sin. It was called What a Mess, and it was four weeks kind of overviewing.
Danny Price: It was four weeks, right, Shane? Four weeks, or was it five? Four? Four?
Shane: Those four.
Danny Price: Yeah, going over just human condition, sin, um and just kind of that whole so situation, which is really important, but I think we just covered it so well that Shane was like, you know what, we're just going to go right on to the next one, which is on Jesus. So I'm going to go ahead and read the EFCA statement of faith, um just on Jesus specifically, and then kind of give a little bit of a recap of the message. So it says...
Danny Price: So in the message, incarnate fully god and fully man one person in two natures jesus israel's promised messiah was conceived through the holy spirit and born of the virgin mary lived the sinless life was crucified under pontius pilot a rose bodily from the dead ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of god the father as our high priest and advocate so in the message which I, by the way, I thought i liked it. I know it's, I think it was hard because there's a lot of these things that are going to carry over into the next um statements, but it I think, I thought you did a really good job talking about um specifically Jesus as our high priest and advocate and the importance of having a, not, and don't want to say this because going sound blasphemous, not a human God, but a God that had the human experience, God that had the human experience,
Shane: Mm-hmm. Thanks.
Danny Price: and came down. So I thought you did a great job with it. um
Shane: thanks
Danny Price: I, I got to mention just cause you know, I have to, as your son-in-law, but the whole slip up, if you haven't listened to it, you can go listen to message. I'm not going to go into details of what he said, but just had a little bit of a Freudian slip midway through the sermon, which is hilarious.
Danny Price: Have you had stuff like, I know you probably have had as a public speaker, you have to have had stuff like that before. How do you handle that? Do you just kind of move on? Do you laugh at yourself? Is it important not to take yourself yourself too seriously in those situations?
Shane: Yeah. I think especially for someone like me, it's important not to, I mean, you know, me, I, I stumble over my words sometimes anyway, I'm just not the most eloquent, uh, conversationalist.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: there's times I get my words mixed up and, uh, you know, and so, yeah, when, when words sound kind of the same or whatever, and you're talking,
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: You know, you're not reading. You're actually just, you know, talking. it can happen. And, you know, and I've known plenty of pastors who have had those little things happen. And when we get together, we all tell the stories on ourselves and ah everyone laughs at laughs at it, you know, and yeah, just move on.
Danny Price: Yeah. No.
Shane: If, if people are going to get offended or upset, that's, you know, that's really on them. And, uh, they, you know, if they think we did it on purpose, you know, I mean, if you watch you can totally tell I didn't do it on purpose.
Danny Price: now
Shane: I was embarrassed, but yeah, you just have to gather your thoughts and and move on.
Danny Price: Yep. No, that's, that's wise. At least if you, at least you recognized it and it was like a brush off. I think I've seen videos where the pastor doesn't even recognize it.
Shane: but
Danny Price: And it almost makes it more awkward because you're like, wait, did he actually hear what he said?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Like he didn't mean to say that.
Shane: Does he hear himself?
Danny Price: Yeah. But if you recognize that you're like, that was a mistake. My bad. And you just move on. It's funny for everyone because everyone, and it's almost endearing because people realize you're human.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: You're just, you're a, you're a guy going up there sharing the word and just like anyone else would, you might make a mistake. So it's almost weird if someone's too polished and too professional and says everything perfectly, you're like, is that person a robot?
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Sometimes that helps, I don't know, draw some humanity, which is what we're going to talk about. um
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So to jump in, um there's, it's a two-part question. This first one, Why does it matter if Jesus wasn't God? And why does it matter if Jesus wasn't actually a man when he came down as and was fully incarnate?
Danny Price: what would have happened What would happen if he wasn't God? What would happen if he wasn't man? Why are both necessary?
Shane: Well, that the God one is... in my mind, easier to answer because if if Jesus wasn't God, he wouldn't have been the perfect sacrifice because there is no other created being that is perfect.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: you know ah You know, even the angels obviously have the ability to be imperfect because Satan was an angel. Um, and you know, mean the demons were angels that followed him.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: So they, God is the only one who is holy. And so he's the only perfect sacrifice. And so anything less than him being fully God would not be the perfect sacrifice that would be able to cover all of our sins. I mean, that's to me, the quickest, easiest answer,
Danny Price: right
Shane: Um, and then as far as him being fully man, um, you know, that, that's a kind of a deeper question because you could argue, well, you know, what, what would it matter if he was just appearing as a man, um, other than, you know,
Shane: it he obviously wouldn't have really been sacrificing anything if he didn't have a human life. You know, if he was just in a form and he hung on the cross as a, as a symbol, you know, you know, so there, there wouldn't be a sacrifice if he wasn't fully man.
Danny Price: Yeah. Right.
Shane: But I think there's, there's much more. um There's also just so many qualities about that, that, are kind of the mind-boggling, mind-blowing love of God, you know, that he cares enough about us that he that he would take on that demeaning humility of becoming a human, you know, that he would go through what we've gone through, that he would feel what we feel, you know.
Shane: So so there's so many aspects of that.
Danny Price: right
Shane: You know, and high in Hebrews talks so much about how we now, because of that, we have a high priest who who does understand us and who does has walked in our shoes. And so, um, you know, the God part it to me is a much easier answer why he had to be fully God.
Shane: Um, the, the man one there's, there's lots of, uh, know, that would be kind of hard to, a lot to get into.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: Uh, but that's my quickest answer.
Danny Price: Right. i This isn't a a question that I had i'd written down, but I know the Bible talks about like the first Adam and the last Adam. And is it's almost like kind of like those bookends and how there's a lot of like, what's the word?
Shane: Hmm.
Danny Price: But basically where there's like a callback to like Genesis and Revelation and stuff like that. like There's like... a nice bookend on either side. ah Does that have anything to do with it? Like for some reason there needed to be like a, like a person, like Adam was the one to to cause sin, even though, you know, it technically was Eve, but you know, they they said it was Adam first Adam.
Danny Price: And then he's the last Adam. Is there any, I literally just thought of that. Is there any like significance with that? Or is it just like, Oh, that's a cool, not literary device, but like it's a cool,
Shane: No, I definitely think there's significant. Yeah, no, I definitely think there's significance. I mean, when you read the context of, especially when Paul is talking about the first Adam and the second Adam, you know, it's not literary. He's he's making theological points.
Shane: And so, you know, um anytime there's a theological point made in the Bible, we have to look recognize that there's reasoning behind it. It's not just something that, like say, it's kind of like, oh, that's cool.
Shane: um But, yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: um You know, and once again, i will say that is, that's kind of one of those, I would probably have to kind of do some more personal study on that to to fully answer it.
Danny Price: Sure, yeah.
Shane: But I guess I would just say that this, Adam is the first human brought destruction on humanity.
Danny Price: Yeah. Right.
Shane: Jesus as the second representation of, you know, of the new, or I hate to say new word, the new covenant really is what it is.
Shane: Under the new covenant, it brings salvation for all of humanity.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: So, you know, that that's definitely what he's saying in when when he refers to that. But there's there's definite there's more to it, but I would have to dig in, honestly, right now.
Danny Price: right
Danny Price: Yeah, I know. I just thought about that because um ah that wasn't even like a question.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So just jump down a little bit. How do we know that Jesus was the promised Messiah? Because if you look in the Old Testament, it talks about a Messiah and it talks, even Isaiah is full of this, all the prophets, they keep talking about this Messiah that's to come.
Danny Price: How do we know that that was Jesus? Was Jesus just a teacher? Because I mean couldn't he could he have just been a good dude, a good prophet type guy? Or how do we know that he was the Messiah, like the promised one?
Shane: Well, there were other people who claimed to be Messiahs. um
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: And yeah, and I would say there's a few things. One, Jesus fulfills the Messianic prophecies. you know ah So there's Messianic prophecies all through um the Old Testament that Jesus fulfills.
Shane: And I can't remember the statistics, but if you look up the statistics of the possibility of him, of one person fulfilling those, it's mind boggling. second Jesus is only one of those who rose from the dead.
Shane: Um, you know, no one else's who has ever claimed.
Danny Price: Right. That's the big one.
Shane: Yeah. I mean, there's been people still, right. I mean, within the last hundred years, there's been a couple of people that have claimed to be the Messiah and they all die and that's it, you know, and then the movement is over.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: So, um, that would be the second thing to me.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: And then the third would be just, yeah, the way, you know, when Jesus, uh, died, his movement was, was honestly kind of dead.
Shane: Like, like the movement he started and during his life was, was falling apart. You know, he was down to, you know, some key followers, those followers turned on them.
Shane: they They abandoned them. They were like, we're out of here. And so by all reasoning,
Danny Price: it should have been It should have been over.
Shane: Christianity would not not have risen. um the It's his resurrection which empowered them.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And that's when everything took off. And so um these people who were the timid little micey guys who ran and hid, all of a sudden they were empowered to stand in the face of opposing governments and you know and most of them to the point of execution.
Shane: And so to me, that's a massive point.
Danny Price: Yeah. No, that's that's that's the big one. So to kind of, second part of that question is, jewish the Jewish tradition, Jewish religion, to this day, still kind of denies that Jesus was the Messiah.
Danny Price: And it sounds like, I mean, as far as I know, I don't know a whole lot of Jewish people, but it sounds like they're still waiting for the Messiah to come. Why did they not think that Jesus was the Messiah without getting crazy into it with all the, you know?
Shane: Yeah. Well, one, just read the gospels and you'll see, um once again, like I said, the people who actually believed in him as the Messiah that we would think we during his life was a...
Shane: a handful and even them, they you know, if you look towards the end of his life, they were still missing the point of really who he was. So, so they were expecting more of a Zionist type of Messiah, someone who was going to establish a government that was going to take over and, and rule, and they were going to have prosperity.
Shane: Um, and that's what they were looking for.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: um so, um, Best we can tell from the New Testament, from Acts, you know, the church did start in Jerusalem. So the church did start with Jewish people. um But best we can tell that the Jews that ended up giving their life to Christ were...
Shane: you know, maybe tens of thousands, um you know, ah and, and the rest never accepted it.
Danny Price: yeah
Shane: And, you know, so then Christianity continued to spread past that. um And yeah, just from the very beginning, they never really accepted it other than
Danny Price: Thank you.
Shane: than a few. And Paul to me is a great example though of like, I think Paul is a huge reason why we can look back because he was a learned Jew. He, he, he was so opposed to Jesus and his claims that he was persecuting the church. He was spent his life, you know he dedicated himself to that. And then once he,
Shane: received the Holy Spirit, his eyes were open to to see the that he was the actual true Messiah. but But most of Judaism never had that experience.
Danny Price: Right. And it was very hostile. And even, i mean, it still even crept in because I think there's even times where like, there's that time in scripture where Paul calls out Peter for still trying to teach some of those like Jewish principles and like circumcision and all this stuff.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: Like it was still hard for them to not get out of the law, even if they did accept Jesus as the Messiah, which is, that's tough. It's a whole system for centuries that had been going on. um
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's a good, that's a good answer. um I'd personally don't know a lot of Jewish people. I mean, I hear about things from different people, but it's always interesting. I've always wanted to talk to someone about that. And like what is the reasoning? like Why is Jesus, is there not enough evidence? But I don't know.
Danny Price: It's interesting.
Shane: Yeah. um There's actually, the only reason I know much about it at all is actually just from a few lectures I've i've listened to, watched on YouTube. So um yeah, because same thing.
Danny Price: OK.
Shane: I don't know. There's not a big Jewish community here in Utah. yeah.
Danny Price: No, not really. um So next question then. And this one is, this is it this is tough. In my opinion, it was tough. um When we say Jesus was fully God and fully man, did he have all his godly powers the whole time and just deny it? Or was he limited by his quote unquote manness Is there is there is something that we just don't understand as humans? Like, was there just a duality that we just are never going to get? how to how to like That's always been really hard for me to wrap my my head around.
Danny Price: did Was he God this whole time, or was he actually a man? How was he both? Did he just deny it? Like, oh, I have all this power. i'm just going to hold back.
Shane: Yeah, there's some different theories.
Danny Price: Did he ever sin? Did he ever sin? was he Was he really perfect? That's another question that kind of goes along with that, too. Because he as a God, he couldn't, but he was a man.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So, you know, the Bible, I like your word manness, by the way. um
Danny Price: not It's not a real word.
Shane: yeah His humanity, I think, would be your. um But... um Yes. The answer was he fully to the first question, was he fully man and fully God all the time? Yes.
Shane: um Did, as far as the power goes, that's, that's a kind of a,
Shane: A debated question, um you know, but the Gospels, if you read the Gospels, you don't see any use of power of healing or anything like that till his ministry started.
Shane: So his first 30 years were of just growing and learning and and and kind of starting to teach, you don't see any of that. you You see it once his ministry begins, um which is honestly like 98% of what we see of Jesus' life in the Gospels.
Shane: We don't see the early part.
Danny Price: Josh Triplett, Sure, sure.
Shane: but And so most would say those were those were manifestations of his power specifically to to grab the attention for the message that he, that he had to share.
Shane: Um, but was he fully God that whole time? Yes. But how that the power worked, um, man, you, you could get into some, some,
Danny Price: i know it's but I know it's speculation. i was just curious like what your thoughts are were on that.
Shane: yeah, but I would definitely say it's fully God.
Danny Price: Because, you know...
Shane: Now, if you read some of the non accredited, um, Gospels, um I think it's the Gospel of Thomas, you know, because there were lots of books written, I think we talked a little bit about that, about Jesus' life, um or ah documents, whatever you want call them.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Shane: the those ones that, there are people, though some of those that talk about him using powers as he was growing up as a child. and But, but they've, those have never been recognized even back, you know, at, by the end of the first century, they weren't recognized as like, Hey, we didn't, you didn't really know that you weren't there.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So.
Danny Price: That's a good answer. That makes sense. So yeah, I guess it doesn't make sense for him to not, because even it talks about like when he's doing a lot of miracles, like it says he felt the power go out of him when the woman touched his cloak.
Danny Price: And then there's other times where he, like he looks at someone and he and he kind of knows about their situation, like the woman at the well um but without, you know, obviously it's not like he was just this good dude that was just doing these some miracles. Like he clearly had God's power and was God during that whole time.
Danny Price: It's just a hard it's a hard thing for my brain to wrap around, the both the both and. um I don't think we're ever fully going to get that. So it was good.
Shane: Yeah, i I can't remember who it is that said it, but um some theologians said, you know, because it's part of the aspect of the Trinity, right?
Danny Price: Good answer.
Shane: Trying to understand the Trinity. And some theologians said, if you deny the Trinity, you are in danger of losing your salvation.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: But if you try to understand the Trinity, you're in danger of you losing your mind. And um and i would I would say that's kind of where I fall.
Danny Price: there Fair, fair. Yeah. It's something, yeah, it's, you're never going to that quite wrap yourself around. That makes sense. um So ah a really common belief, I think, amongst millennials and new age and, you know, just kind of the the thought leaders, I guess, of our day is that a lot of people don't deny that Jesus was, he existed. he would But a lot of people are just saying, know,
Danny Price: He was a good dude who had some good stuff to say, and we should kind of just take his teachings that like, you know, he had love and had peace and all this stuff. And they really don't believe that he was God, that he was Jesus. He was the Messiah. Yeah.
Danny Price: ah Was he simply just a good man? Is there any chance that he was simply was a good man? um And just, we should just take his teachings as like, oh, that was, it was just some good things that he said. And we're just going to live our life based off of a lot of other things too. And just use him and combine him with all these other thoughts and other, all these other perspectives from other religions.
Danny Price: Is there any validity to do that?
Shane: um No, there's no validity to it.
Danny Price: I know that's a little bit of a devil's advocate question.
Shane: No, there can't be any validity to it. In fact, you might want to look it up, but Paul says, if the resurrection didn't happen, then we are the worst to be pitied. um And I don't remember the the call verse for that.
Shane: um I think it's Galat. No, I think it might be in Corinthians. But yeah.
Danny Price: It is Corinthians.
Shane: but
Danny Price: You are right. It is. Let me read it really quick and pull it up. This is NIV version, but it says, so this is first Corinthians 15, 12 through 19. But if it is preached that Christ has been raised in the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?
Danny Price: mean, this is going on on on for a while. Okay. going go down to the bottom.
Shane: Yeah, just go to verse 9. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah its this is 17 through 19. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile. You are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are all the people to be most pitied.
Shane: Yeah. so So basically, just... it if the resurrection didn't happen, then yeah, now it, the whole thing's pointless. Um, and, and if he was just a good teacher, then the resurrection didn't happen, you know?
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Um, and then on the other side is, you know, you obviously that whole idea of like when people say that, I think it was Josh McDowell who started the, the point. to It's a good point.
Shane: Jesus couldn't have been a, just a good teacher. He was either a liar who made a lot of claims about himself, ah like an egomaniac liar, or he was a lunatic. He was crazy. I mean, most people that go around saying they're God, um, we put in little homes, you know, um, put little white jackets on them.
Shane: And then, um, the, you, or he was Lord. He was who he said he is. So there, he really didn't leave room.
Danny Price: Yeah, Right.
Shane: And that was why he was killed. If you look at why he was killed is because the Jewish people understood what he was saying about himself and they were angered.
Shane: They were angered by it to the point of they wanted to kill him.
Danny Price: yeah yeah
Shane: Um, so yeah, that's, that, that argument is kind of, People don't understand the context at all if they're saying that and they've never really read what he says about himself or taking it to heart at least.
Danny Price: right You would be surprised though. I have quite a few friends on Facebook in different places from my childhood and past that, I mean, they're, I mean, it's like, yeah, but Jesus, but yeah, also this, but also this religion, but also a little bit of crystals and all this stuff. and they try to mix it all in together.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It's like, and I totally agree with you. You're so pretty much, you're not really reading what he was saying about himself. Cause if you really read it and you look at what Jesus said about himself and that he was the son of God and the Messiah, I mean, it's, yeah, he's exactly, he's either a liar or he's crazy and he's saying things just like wild claims or he actually is God.
Danny Price: So that a that's a good quote.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: um
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: So next question. um And this one, this is an interesting question. i wanted to throw this in there, but should we, do we follow in Jesus's footsteps in every way?
Danny Price: For example, just the way that he walked and did life in his ministry or were there some things that he did just because he was God that we shouldn't necessarily model ourselves after. I'm not talking about the resurrection. I'm not talking about like, obviously we're not paying.
Danny Price: we're We're not going to do that. We're not going to pay for anyone's sins, like anything like that. I'm not trying to be like sacrilegious there, but a lot of people say that we should just like model our lives completely how Jesus lived.
Danny Price: Is that true? Or are there out some elements of his life? It's like, that was because he was God. We shouldn't necessarily put ourselves in those situations or do exactly everything he did. Does that make sense? What I'm saying? Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. I mean,
Shane: i would say outside of trying to claim you have his power, I don't think there's anything wrong with seeking to live exactly as he lived.
Shane: Um, So there's a theology, um and many of my friends would fall into this, the um of sensationists.
Shane: um
Danny Price: Cessationist. Got
Shane: Yeah, we're sensationists. Yeah. They would say that the the gifts, like healings, um speaking in tongues, things like that, all died after the first century church. um they With the apostles, basically. Yeah.
Danny Price: got it
Shane: ah that that That gifts of healing were given from the time of Jesus' ministry starting to the to the end of the apostles. And then after that, that hasn't happened.
Shane: I...
Shane: I hesitate to say that. um I'm not saying it's the wrong. um I would say probably half the people that go to our church would probably probably fall into that. I don't know. You might even.
Shane: um my Thinking once again, and i say this all the time, is yes, from my pinpoint that I get to have a perspective of the world of the last 2,000 years, let's just take the even the last 2,000 years since that first century church, the little pinpoint of perspective I have and the pinpoint of understanding I have, I don't see it.
Shane: I don't see, you know, speaking in tongues is something that really in edifies the church and builds people.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: I don't see healings.
Danny Price: okay
Shane: I don't see that stuff. So sure, my experience would lead me to believe it isn't there. But I i have known ah i've known other people that have have completely different other experiences, and they say that they've seen those things.
Shane: um So I just, I don't see in the Bible why i have to believe that they're gone. um
Danny Price: got it
Shane: So I would say that it's okay to Like, man, you want me to pray for your healing because your arm got cut off broke?
Shane: you know, like, if that your heart...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I'll pray for it. ah yeah I'm to trust that God can do whatever God's going to that he's can he can do those miracles still. Now, I'm not going to... claim that I have the ability or that God uses me.
Shane: And I would say that if someone comes to me and says, man, you know, I got, God uses me the way he used Peter in the first century church to do, I, I would go, well, you know,
Danny Price: Man, that's a pity. You can make a lot of money that way. You should think about that. I'm just thinking.
Shane: So, so anyway, that's, it's a tough one though.
Danny Price: No, that's a good answer. Yeah, um and that makes sense.
Shane: That, that's definitely something that can divide people. And I guess that's my thing is I, just, I don't want to divide in that area. And I also just, I don't want to, um you know, me, I'm hesitant to say the way I see it is and absolutely correct.
Danny Price: Right. Yeah, and for the those listening, I mean, I'm sure you guys... have heard of these arguments in the past, but this is a heavily debated topic um just in the community of the church.
Danny Price: But it's not heavily debated, hopefully, to the point of divisiveness It's just one of those things where it's like relying on core things, but some people believe that the gifts still exist. Other people people believe that miracles exist. Yes, but the gifts are not commonplace, like kind of what Shane was saying. So I'd encourage you guys to dig into that more um just because there's a there's a lot of there's a lot into that.
Danny Price: um And I don't want to get bogged down just since we're talking about Jesus.
Shane: Yeah. Real quick, I'll just say on that too. Unfortunately, there are some people who will divide on it. and i And I would just encourage people not to do that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: You know, I know people that will teach, you have to have the gift of tongues or you don't fully have the Holy Spirit. Well, I show me where that's at all in the Bible.
Shane: Um, you know, and then also people who will say, no, if you believe that, that's just, if you believe there's such things as healings, like you're just completely off.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I mean, I know preachers who, who will, will say that like you're, you know, so, so I just, don't know, just be careful taking extreme sides on anything other than like core Christian beliefs.
Danny Price: yeah
Danny Price: Yeah. And again, if we're aligning up underneath the Bible as our authority, I think some of these things are going to become a lot more clear. ah so this is so Our thoughts and feelings about things. So that was a good answer. Good answer. um Let me think here. what and Next question. So um only I think I'm only going to do two more.
Danny Price: um The first one is, what does it mean... that Jesus is our high priest. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I think in our commonplace English language right now, high priest isn't it really a word that we throw around very often other than like religious situations.
Danny Price: What does that mean? Why is that significant?
Shane: Um, what is it? So just clarify, you're saying, what does it mean to say Jesus our high priest?
Danny Price: Yeah, because it's in the it's in that statement of faith, or in the the doctrine, where it says, he sits the right hand of God the Father as our high priest and advocate.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. Okay.
Danny Price: High Priest, what does that what does High Priest mean? What does that mean?
Shane: Well, that's referring back to the temple. um And if you, we talked a little bit about this a few months back, actually on Easter, we talked about this, that the high priest was the only one who was allowed to go into the presence of God.
Shane: um And he would go into the presence of God to represent the people. and, and spread the blood of the sacrifice on the, alt that yeah, yeah ah on the Ark the Covenant and um to atone for the sins.
Danny Price: Yep. yep
Shane: So to say Jesus, our high priest is saying, now he is that one who goes before the father for us um and, and covers us.
Shane: So that, when you know i tried I talked a little bit about this in the sermon. you know that be cut So what we're saying when we follow Christ is because we...
Shane: we are trusting in the blood of Jesus versus trusting in anything we've done at that point that we choose to trust in the blood of Jesus. What we're saying is we're allowing the blood to of Christ, his sacrifice to cover us.
Shane: We're not trying to cover ourselves. We're allowing him to cover us. And so therefore now he goes before God because You know, it's not like, I think some people see it as like God, like Jesus goes with his dad before us and his arm around or his shoulder. And he's like, oh, come on, God, come on, let, let him stay. Let him stay. I really like him. He's my buddy.
Shane: He's been a pretty good guy. Let me, you know, like Jesus is just kind of like, you know, kind of like when your kids advocate to have you.
Danny Price: the fun re The fun rebel heir to the throne, kind of. Yeah, the fun prince.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, like, no, not at all.
Shane: Yeah. You know, and, and that's not it at all.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: When you go before the father, the father doesn't see you.
Danny Price: No.
Shane: He's, he sees Jesus. He doesn't see your sin. He sees you covered in, his in, in Jesus. And, and it's not like Jesus just like saying, you're a great guy.
Danny Price: Wow.
Shane: It's Jesus saying, yeah, you're not, you're not, but I'm going to take care of it for you. and so I don't know if that answers what you were saying.
Danny Price: Yeah. That's a perfect answer. that's a perfect answer And did you to take a look?
Shane: Okay. Yeah.
Danny Price: It's a fancy word, but the whole double double imputation, um did you look at that at all? And why that's, just like what you were saying, why that's important, not just that um not not just the one the one side of it where Jesus, yeah, he covers us completely, but that all of our sin is no longer on us. Like he took all of our sin.
Danny Price: I know we're going to get into like the like salvation and like the resurrection and all that stuff later. Did you take a look at that at all on that question?
Shane: Yeah. So when you say double invitation, you're talking about that. um lot Some people refer to it as um the great exchange. um were ah Tell me if I'm saying this right. where were Because of what Christ did, where where we may made an exchange where he takes our sin and we get his righteousness.
Shane: Is that what you're saying?
Danny Price: Yeah, exactly. it's
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: It's not just the one thing, because I think for me, at least, this was a big realization of growing up, I always heard, you know and everyone always says, well, Jesus just died for your sins, but not necessarily that you get his righteousness because of him dying for your sins.
Shane: Hmm. That's a good point. Yeah. We don't share that in the gospel.
Danny Price: And so thinking of
Shane: Really.
Danny Price: And not like some, like, again, so that no one may boast. It's not a pride thing. Like, oh, i'm look at me. Look what I did. It's more just, a lot of times you still sync with that weight of like, yeah, Jesus died for my sins. He took my sins. Cool. But I'm still a mess. And i and then you think about like like what you just said. You go before the father and he doesn't see you. He sees the son, which is pretty pretty pretty wild.
Danny Price: um
Shane: Yeah. you know and i
Danny Price: So I just, you kind of already explained it. I just was like, that concept is crazy. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I, I, I did have to look up the word because I, when you said that, i was like, what is that? But yeah I can't remember someone I've read a book called the great exchange where it talks about it.
Danny Price: ye
Shane: um And I, you know, I did try to get that across without the word on Sunday of when I talked about you're sitting here in the righteousness of God. In fact, a couple of people, I think were a little bugged because I, I like even said, like, I don't care if you flip people off.
Shane: this week in the car. I don't care. And I even said, I don't, you know, even if you were drunk last night and you're here, you're sitting here as the righteousness of God. And like that, I think sometimes they can bother people to, to say, to say like, well, no, you, you not, you have to like do a pen and you and it's like, well, not, not truly.
Danny Price: If you're saved, yeah.
Shane: I mean, not that obviously we go on sinning that grace may increase, you know, obviously, but we do sin and we mess up and we do.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: So that's hard. That's a really hard thing for people to just, except
Danny Price: There's a whole debate about that with like lordship versus free grace theology.
Shane: Lordship salvation. We're going to talk about that when we talk about salvation.
Danny Price: are you Okay, good. I was going to say, because there's there is there's is some debate there. So we're going to end it. that was That was a great answer. I wanted to talk about something that I heard in another podcast, um kind of talking about this that I thought was really cool.
Danny Price: um And it's, to go back to that statement of faith, I'm going to click on it on my computer here, where it says, arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father. A lot of times I think we read past and sits at the right hand of God the Father really quickly. And something that I thought was cool, this guy was talking about this. It was Kevin DeYoung on this Doctrine podcast. I have a book that I'm reading by him.
Danny Price: But he talks about the emphasis on sitting down and that it kind of means like it's the end. The work has been done. and he And he kind of referred it to think about... A lawyer that goes up and makes his case like for his client at the bar or whatever and is fighting for him. And then when he's done, he rests his case and he sits down and the work is over. And then same thing. He's like, think about a mom, like a stay at home mom who like she's on her feet all day. She's taking care of the kids. She's doing diapers. She's doing all this stuff.
Danny Price: She feeds the kids. She takes them out. She does this. She finally gets to put them down. and send him to bed. And then she sits down at the end of the day and like the work is over. And so just thinking like a very, like it's a conclusion to what he did for us is that he sat, it's not like, oh, he still has more to do. It's like, no, it was done. It was paid for. He sat down at the right hand of God. It's like that, like it's over. And then he doesn't go into the whole right hand of God and why that's important too. But just the fact that he sat down, it's over, it's been completed. I thought that was a really cool insight.
Shane: that That is an awesome insight. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool.
Danny Price: That's not my words. That's again, um different different guy, but I thought it was cool.
Shane: Yeah. no
Danny Price: And I thought it would be a good place to end of just like, for, you know, again, we're going to talk about salvation, but just the emphasis on Jesus has ascended. He's back in heaven with the father and he's sat down and it's done. It's been, it's been paid for.
Danny Price: So.
Shane: Yep. That's great.
Danny Price: Anyways, cool. All right. um Again, hope you guys are enjoying this. um We're going go ahead and end the episode. We're right at 34 minutes, so we're getting a little long, but hope you guys again are enjoying it. And then just another reminder, if you guys would like to put in your own questions, um please just text it to myself or Shane. Again, ideally, maybe Sunday night or Monday morning.
Danny Price: We'd love to throw your questions in there. Again, we're hoping that this isn't just... us talking back and forth um too much and that we're actually answering questions and diving into things that are applicable and helpful for people. So anyways, again, hope you guys are enjoying and we'll talk to you guys next week.
Danny Price: Bye-bye.
