Transcript
Speaker: I actually fell on stage a few months ago and it was my first time ever falling on stage and I was so scared to before. But you fall and you get up and that's live art. And you know, you keep going because things like that happen and you try your best.
Speaker: I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
Speaker: I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Vanessa Milnick. Vanessa is a professional dancer with a New York City ballet who just finished her first season in the Corde Ballet.
Speaker: So Vanessa, we're going to chat all about your professional dance career, but I want to start at the very beginning and hear why did you take your very first dance class? Yes, thank you so much for having me. I took my first dance class. I guess I had really good rhythm as a toddler. My parents just said since I could stand like when I was one, I would just be like clapping to the beat of music.
Speaker: I was also the first child in my family and they were just like, let's put her into dance classes and see if it sticks. My two younger sisters also did ballet and they did it for a few years, but I guess it just stuck with me and I just liked it. Yeah, I started, i think, just in a half ballet, half like tap kind of class when I was like really little and I just loved it after that. So what was your training like growing up i first went to kind of like a competition school. So we had all the styles. I did every style.
Speaker: that basically there is. And was on competition team when I was younger. And so we would do competitions, I would do lyrical, I would do some ballet, I would do tap, and we just did that. And then as I got a little older, i just really fell in love with ballet. And i wanted to more focus on that. So we found a ballet school and it was like kind of a Vaganova Russian style ballet school. So I started going there and really just focusing on ballet. We also did like character and stuff like that, but it was a lot different from doing just all different styles. So I just started focusing on that and then ended up learning about the Balanchine style and going to Balanchine school. And then which led me to SAB What was it about the Balanchine technique specifically that really captured your attention? I first found out the Balanchine style, my mom, I think, found the SAB Instagram. And kind of just, she was researching a lot of different schools to go to And I started just watching different things like on YouTube that like New York City Ballet had posted. And I just love the freedom that the Balanchine style gives you. And, you know, the fast paced work and Balanchine has so many amazing ballets. that I feel like the artists can really like show what they're like in that work and have their own little flair. Because what I've heard Balanchine really liked you to express like how you are and try different things and you know, kind of make the choreography yours. And I just really like that how you can
Speaker: have the steps but bring your own style to a lot of things so i just like fell in love with that and as also a shorter dancer i really liked the quick movement and the quick pace of a lot of things that they do so i think that's what i liked most about it how tall are you 5'4 thought when i was younger i was really short and i was like oh my gosh am i gonna even be tall enough to like be in a company but i am I think like the second or third shortest in my company. So yeah, I'm five feet tall. So I can relate to being yeah the short dancer. Yeah.
Speaker: Do you feel like growing up in a competitive dance environment and training in all different styles help you in exploring the Balanchine technique and getting to be more expressive with your movement and sort of molding different dance styles together?
Speaker: I think definitely because there are also some balancing ballets that are almost more like jazzy. I honestly do because I grew up not just doing straight classical ballet. And so there are so many different styles within that ballet style. And so i think that does bring me back because it showcases a lot.
Speaker: How did you find your way to SAB? Did you start at the summer intensive? I did. i went the Balanchine school after going to the more classical ballet school because I wanted to study more Balanchine style. And one of our main teachers is a former New York City ballet dancer who worked with Balanchine. And so I really got great training there. And I was like wanting to go to that school and SAB. And I just loved it. I researched like Suki Shore and I was like, I need to take a class from her when I was like 11. So I went to the first year they did the one week junior program in New York because the five week you have to be 12. So when I was 11, I did the one week and we stayed in a hotel in New York and I absolutely loved it and loved all the classes Then the next year i auditioned and you can still do the one week when you're 12. You can do the one week or the five week. I was just thinking was going to do the one week again because I really liked it. i got invited to that, but I also got invited to the five week and I was like,
Speaker: So excited, but it was also moving. You do have chaperones and stuff, but like when you're 12, just staying the city for five weeks by yourself. But I'm so glad I did it. I had so much fun.
Speaker: So I did that summer course. And then i Did, I think, two or three summers at my studio after that because it was kind of COVID times. So I didn't do the Zoom one. And then the next year they were kind of like off and on. So I didn't do that one either.
Speaker: But then the next year it was mostly back to normal. So I was like, I really want to go and try out for the winter term. So I went to the summer course five week again, and I ended up getting accepted to the winter term, I think about like three weeks in. And so that summer was a lot of fun, but ah definitely more stressful than when I was 12 and just, you know, taking ballet classes. But yeah, I got into the year that year and I was so, so excited because that's really all I wanted to do. And I just wanted to train at SAB in the summers, like really show you the balancing technique. And I was like, this is this is it.
Speaker: And where are you originally from? Where is your family based? Rhode Island. Okay. so what was that like moving from Rhode Island to New York City and dancing full time away from your family? It was a transition. i am very grateful that I'm close enough where my parents can drive up and I don't have to fly to get home so they could visit me anytime or I could go home at certain times if I had a week off or things like that. But it was definitely different. i do think i
Speaker: honestly really enjoyed moving. I loved being with my family, but I loved just being surrounded by everyone who like loved the same things that I did And then like finding so many friends and just like getting to live with them, even though it's kind of crazy just living when you're like 15 in New York by yourself. But I had a great time, but it was crazy because when you're at home and in a smaller school,
Speaker: You know, all your classes start at like 4 p.m. after school starts. So you only have like three hours or so, like four to maybe like eight or something like that each day what you're training. And then SAB, there's different schools that you can go to to do the schedule that we have. But we start at 1030 in the morning every day and we have classes throughout the day. And then depending if we have a show or not, we'll be rehearsing. So it's more of an all day rehearsing thing.
Speaker: That was definitely a change and I had to get used to I really enjoyed it. It took a second. My first year was a little, you know, hard. But yeah, I ended up loving it and just focusing on that was all I wanted to do.
Speaker: Who are some of the teachers or mentors at SAB who had a really big impact on you as a dancer? Definitely Suki Shore. She actually is friends with the teacher that I had at my school that worked with Balanchine. They were like dressing roommates. So she would come to our studio summer intensive and teach. for like a week And so I had her when I was younger there and then coming to SAB and having her in the summer course. She's a hard teacher, but she really knows how to teach the balancing style and really does care for each person and each dancer in the room and just loves teaching. And throughout then the like three years that I did in the school, she taught us so much. And we also did Serenade for workshop. And so we were with her for like hours every day, you know, getting it perfect.
Speaker: But she is just such a great teacher. And yeah, she just loves everybody and really just wants to show that style. and she passes it on so well and also getting inspiration if you know you want to teach one day and the different ways she does that she has definitely made a big impact on me what are some of the lessons that she's taught you So many. She just really shows you that you need to go out there and dance. Like she has this story about this caterpillar and that like you have to go and be a butterfly before the butterfly dies or whatever, which is kind of crazy. But she really just taught us to like go for things and to dance because also in a school, you're really focusing on technique and getting better in those situations.
Speaker: fundamental things that you need to move on. But then when you're dancing for a show, even as a student to really just go out there. And I think that is also part of the balancing style and just dance and show yourself and show your artistry. She really helps with that. But then also, you know, keeping the technique good and just how to do everything in a certain way that Balanchine loved. She always tells stories of what Balanchine said or did. Yeah, she's she's great.
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Speaker: In addition to these classes and workshops, dancers can audition and receive valuable feedback while being considered for admissions, scholarships, and other opportunities. And the programming goes beyond auditions too.
Speaker: Dancers and parents can attend sessions covering topics like navigating the college application process, FAFSA and financial aid, careers in dance, nutrition, health and wellness, injury prevention, resilience, and preparing for life beyond high school.
Speaker: Whether you're just beginning your college search or preparing to audition this year, seeing and be seen offers a chance to learn, connect, and gain clarity on your next steps.
Speaker: To learn more and register, head to the link in the show notes and start planning for an inspiring weekend this October. How did you find out that you had gotten a contract with New York City Ballet?
Speaker: Usually the apprentices that are taken find out around like June that they're going to be taken for the fall season. But sometimes if people are injured or if they need more people, they'll take them for Nutcracker, which that was the case for me. i was going into my last year in the school.
Speaker: And I started preparing stuff to audition for companies. So we were all, my capstone class were rehearsing variations. We started filming, started making our resumes, like doing all the things, researching. And I was in one of our last variations classes that we were working on the variations that we each chose to do to film. So everyone would go and one by one, like do whatever variation they picked and rehearse it and get corrections.
Speaker: And me and this other girl, we actually chose the same variation, which is funny, and we happened to go last in that class. And so we did our variation and we said thank you. And then as we're walking out of the door of the class, just thinking we're going to another class, one of the teachers was like, hey, can I just see you two in my office in a few minutes? And we were like, oh, yeah, sure. And we were kind of like, oh, my gosh, are we in trouble? Like,
Speaker: what happened because she was also watching that class. So i was like, is my variation really that bad? Like, you know, thinking all the things. And then she's like, actually, can you just come right now? And we're like, okay. So we drop off our stuff. And it's funny that we were the last two in that studio because everyone kind of like already walked. And so we're just walking to her office. As we're walking there, we hear the voice of John Therode Stafford, which is the director of New York City Ballet. We hear him talking to someone in that office.
Speaker: And that's not his office. So then we looked at each other and I was like, wait, what does this mean? And the other girl, I looked at her and she was like so scared. But we were like, oh my gosh. And so then we walked into the office and then they were just like, some people went out and we need you to do Nutcracker in a few days. So you're going to start win the company in a few days. Congrats. And so we were like,
Speaker: What? Because we thought we had a whole year and we already started auditions and it was such a special day. And then everyone like realized what happened and all our friends came and it was amazing. But it was definitely crazy because it was just a normal day and you know, doing our classes. And then it was like, oh, in a few days, you're going to be with a whole company and you're going to start performing Nutcracker like for five weeks. It was really fun. And I'm also kind of glad i started so soon because i think if I were someone who got told and had to wait a few months, I would have kind of freaked myself out in my head. So it was a very fast transition. but yeah, that was such a great day because we were not expecting it at all. It was great.
Speaker: What was it like being thrown in that fast? Was there anything that really surprised you about working with the company versus being in the school? I think just how fast-paced it was because when we do our workshop performance at SAB, we are performing probably like three ballets and sometimes not even like the full ballets. And we start months before and we practice every day and we're learning the choreography pretty slowly just to get it right.
Speaker: And in the company, like I came on my first day and we learned all of snow, all of hot chocolate, all of whatever you're doing in that one day, in that one rehearsal. And you just have to pick up things so fast.
Speaker: And thankfully I watched, you know, a video I found on YouTube and kind of just like tried to like learn it, but it was definitely just how fast paced things were, which I knew that's what it was going to be. But it's definitely a lot going from a student who you rehearse for so long.
Speaker: to do just like one ballet and then you feel so comfortable in it because you've done it so many times to then, you know, having one or two rehearsals and doing the show. That was a big change, but, you know, you get used to it. What does a typical day look like for you during the season? During the season, we always have class at 1030. So we take class. And then if we have a double show day, we'll then do the matinee show. If we just have an evening show, then we're usually rehearsing either the ballet that's going or other ballets that are going the next week or the next month. And then about two hours before the show, we have off. And that's when You know, we'll try to eat, we'll do our makeup, hair, and we do the show at night. So that's mostly how it works. Of course, there's different things. And depending on, you know, if you're not doing a lot that season, then you could have more breaks during the day and do other things. But usually that's about how it goes. Do you have any pre-show rituals or routines that you stick to? I'm not too superstitious or anything, but I do try to make sure I get ready two hours before the show, which is early for some people. But I just really like not being rushed. You know, I'll do my makeup first. I'll do my hair. I usually eat dinner before the show. a lot of people do it after, but I'll do it right two hours before the show. So it's like digested.
Speaker: And I'm feeling good. And then i always do like a mini bar to warm up and get my shoes ready. Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes. I don't have anything too weird that I do. But you know, maybe I'll find something in the next years.
Speaker: How do you take care of yourself physically and mentally throughout a really demanding season like this? Yeah, we're really lucky. We have a lot of resources at New York City Ballet. We have massage, we have PT. So I really, especially during Nutcracker, try to really keep up with doing those things because it really makes a difference.
Speaker: Also, now we have strength training, which is so helpful for like injury prevention. So I go twice a week and I do strength training with the strength training coach that we have. I'll also try to do, you know, Pilates and gyro to keep up and just doing those things really helps my body stay strong. And even if you're going kind of easy, i think it really does help.
Speaker: Also, just like fueling right, trying to get as much sleep as you can. It's really hard during the season because we have late shows like every single day and then you have to get up early. But when you can, really trying to get enough sleep or even in between shows, just taking a nap. But yeah, and then just really fueling yourself right, you know, drinking electrolytes with your water, staying hydrated and just trying to keep up with all that stuff.
Speaker: to make sure your body is well and you're feeling good. We also have a cold plunge now, which is really helpful. So after shows, I'll try to cold plunge and just do that stuff and keep it consistent. How do you come down from the energy of a show and all that adrenaline after to actually get to sleep every night? Does it start to feel a little less intense as you get used to it, as you do that many shows? I really actually struggled with that when I so first started. Some people can just go home and go to sleep, but for me, especially if I'm doing like a high energy ballet, it takes me a while. So I think just even after the show, you know, taking off my makeup, I'm not like rushing. I'm just like calmly doing that because I know it'll take more time for my body to calm down. Just taking my time with that. And then when I get home, I always, you know, just put my feet up on the wall and I'll just like read a book or call my mom or something like that. That's just because I know it'll take more time and I can't go right to sleep. But just doing things that just like slows my body down really helps. And if I do a more slower pace ballet, I notice that I can fall asleep better. But yeah, trying to do little things that just are slower so that i can get a good sleep for the next day.
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Speaker: Do you have a favorite onstage moment from your first season in The Corps? I have so many. i actually this past week just did Serenade and that always i did it for workshops. So I was really lucky to there. But doing it with new York City Valley was so special. And when the curtain comes up and you're just standing and you can feel like the breeze of the curtain that comes up is just amazing. such a special moment and that music and I just like think of all the people that have done it before that is so so special I also had a very vivid moment of this one ballet that we did it's Brahms and I was in the third movement and there's this section that we do that all the girls in the core were holding hands and we run out in a diagonal and we're in these like beautiful kind of tulle dresses and it's just one of those like pretty dancey ballets and I just remember backstage holding on to like my friend's hands as we were about to go on and I was like
Speaker: oh my gosh, like this is my job. I'm just running like in a beautiful costume with makeup on like on a stage, just dancing and having the best time. And I just remember like holding their hands and be like, wow, like this is what I get to do. And like I trained my whole life for this and it was just all worth it in that moment. And all the stage moments that you can make eye contact with someone, that's what's really special about the core is that Not everyone's watching you 100% of the time. And so you're just interacting with the people around you. And we're all working so hard to like, make these ballets look good Just any moment on stage where I can like smile at someone is just so, so special. So that's like my favorite parts. Do you have a dream role or ballet that you want to perform with the company?
Speaker: I have so many. i love Allegra Brillant. I think that is definitely one of my dream roles. Or Rubies, the short girl in Rubies and Jewels. I just did the core of the ballet called Opus 19. It's not a very well-known ballet, but it is amazing. And the music in that, it's just so cool. So that's a very different one that I would like to do. There's so many, but I think those come to mind first.
Speaker: And what are your hopes and dreams for your dance career? You're right at the beginning of it What's your big sky dream? I mean, of course I want to do all the roles that I want to do. Everyone thinks about getting promoted or getting whatever, but just as long as I'm having fun and just doing what I love with my friends, like I'm just looking forward to the next few years, like spending those years with those people, just like working hard, but doing literally what we love so much. Like I don't even think of it as a job. I just come to work and I'm so excited and I, I spend my off time, you know, working towards what I want to do because I genuinely enjoy it so much. And so hopefully that doesn't dwindle out as I go on with my career. But I'm just, yeah, excited to also learn so many different new ballets. And we do so much rep. I'm so grateful that we do. And we do so many ballets all year. And so just to, like, learn that from, you know, different teachers and just...
Speaker: do that with the people around me. I'm just really excited to do that for hopefully many more years to come. Do you feel like your relationship with ballet has changed since becoming a professional dancer?
Speaker: I do. ah Not in the sense that I definitely don't think of now that I'm a professional that it's like a job. I still love it the same. But I do think that now in a company, of course, I'm always working on, you know, my technique and getting better in the foundation of things. But in a company now, you kind of realize not that you can do everything, but you can do a lot of things even without like thinking of it because you've trained all those things. for years and years. So I think I've just found so much more freedom and artistry in dancing. And we do so many shows that now I'm so used to being on stage where I can just be so present and in the moment. Whereas when you're in a school and, you know, workshop, you are training for months for this ballet, but then it gets, you have a lot of pressure because you're like, I only have, you know, two or three shows. of this And so it's really hard to be very present and really enjoy in the moment. So I think now being a professional, like even our 50 shows of Nutcracker, you're on every night, twice a day, even like doing the same thing. And so now I think I'm so much more present and I get out there and I just am really enjoying performing. i'm really enjoying that. And also not being afraid to fall because
Speaker: I actually fell on stage a few months ago and it was my first time ever falling on stage and I was so scared to before. but you fall and you get up and that's live art. And, you know, you keep going. And just knowing that things like that happen, but Yeah, just finding so much more freedom and just really enjoying the performing part and not being so scared that, you know, you'll miss something or because things like that happen and you try your best. But I really enjoy just like actually being so present in the ballet and having fun. Yeah.
Speaker: What do you like to do when you're not dancing? I have a lot of hobbies, actually. One of them is I love to bake. I make cookies and I bring them to the dressing room pretty much every week. And so now I'm kind of known around the company as like the cookie girl. But I do really like doing that. So I'll make different like flavors and bring them just to like bring joy to people.
Speaker: i really like doing that. It's also very therapeutic for me just so I'm, you know, making different stuff. I also really like to knit. So I knit like leg warmers and things like that.
Speaker: I find any little artsy thing, which I never thought of myself really as like a crafty person, but I've really gone into little things like that. So I'll do stuff like that just to like calm me on my off days or do something that's not too strenuous on my body. I do also really like just like walking in the park and stuff because New York is so great to just like walk around.
Speaker: But I have all a bunch of little hobbies i like to do every once in while. Do you have favorite spots in New York City that you like to go? I do love just Central Park. It's so big and you can just discover new things all the time. It's so pretty. i also am very much kind of a foodie. So I will and we have great food in New York. So me and also a couple of my friends will always try a new bakery that's opening up. So I don't think I have many specific spots because I'm trying something new like every week. But we have like an app where we'll rank like our different bakeries or coffee shops or restaurants that we like. I do that a lot. And...
Speaker: I think that's also why I like baking so much is I'll like find something at a bakery and then I'll try to recreate it and things like that. But I love New York and it's so fun. There's always something to do, always new things popping up.
Speaker: Okay, last question for you, Vanessa. If you had to give aspiring dancers who are pursuing their pro career one piece of advice, what would you tell them? I would say that your hard work does pay off. I used to, as a student, come into class so early and I would do all these exercises for all these things I wanted to prove on. And I felt like I was getting nowhere and I couldn't see improvement. And then all of a sudden it just, things started clicking without even doing anything much different.
Speaker: It does pay off. And also just to try to stay on your own path And really, especially if you're trying to find a job or even if you're trying to just go to a bigger school, to really support the friends and the people around you. And it's so hard to not view them as competition if there's only a few spots for companies or things like that. But everyone will go where you're meant to be. Just support everyone through that because it will make the process so, so much better. I was so lucky. Our class was so close and we really...
Speaker: you know inspired each other and supported each other and so where everyone went it didn't feel like a competition i think that made the world of a difference and just if you can say at the end of the day that you worked your hardest you can't have any regrets after that yeah just really support the people around you because you started this just as a fun thing when you were a little and so think back of that younger version of you of why you did it because it's all for fun and just enjoying every moment of it. I love that. Vanessa, this was so fun to talk to you today. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you, where can we find you? You can find me on Instagram, TikTok. My users are just my name, Vanessa Milnik, and performing at New York City Valley all the time. so Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Vanessa. Thank you so much for having me.
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