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E090: Bill and Peggy Stephenson
2.5k Plays4 years ago
Everyone has a special place in their hearts for Bill and Peggy Stephenson, the 74-year-old couple who would bring cookies, fish with them, visit with them, or minister to them. So, when Bill and Peggy were found brutally murdered on May 29th, 2011, everyone was in shock. Who would be capable of committing such a heinous crime? And, what’s more, who could be callous enough to remain in the home for hours afterward staging items in each room of their home?
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
Rodney and I always say that God sent us into each other's lives so purposefully at the time he did because he knew we'd need each other to get through some of the hardest things to ever happen to either one of us. I lost my grandma and Rodney lost his mom. We had each other to lean on, but we were adults. We had memories with them. They were at all of the big life events.
00:00:28
Speaker
but my stepchildren had an even harder experience. They had wonderful memories, yes, but their sweet granny wasn't going to physically be there for their weddings or for the birth of their children. That's hard, especially when the loss was so sudden.
00:00:46
Speaker
One of the last times my stepdaughter spent with her granny, they had wine together. They took silly pictures and she still has one of those pictures up in her house. She kept the wine bottle. Those items are more priceless to her than nearly anything.
00:01:03
Speaker
The same is true for Nicole Stevenson. She was 16 when she lost her grandparents, but the day before they were brutally and senselessly murdered. Nicole had made a Facebook post with a picture of herself and a group of friends, a company with a comment about being so tall. Her mama had commented, quote, you may be the tallest, but you're also the best, end quote, that memory, that comment.
00:01:31
Speaker
The snapshot Nicole took of it is priceless to her now. We hold on to what we have left. When we don't have the physical person to hug tight, we put value into the things they touched or the words they said.
The Case of Bill and Peggy Stevenson
00:01:46
Speaker
Most of the family, the friends, the neighbors, the church family, heck even strangers who met the couple at the center of our case this week have things to hold on to.
00:01:58
Speaker
They touched so many people in such a positive way that it's hard to believe that they met the fate they did. This is the story of Bill and Peggy Stevenson.
00:02:25
Speaker
Oh.
00:02:46
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the case will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:03:07
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, and to follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee and Cases podcast. Because as these families know, conversation helps to keep their missing family member in the public consciousness, helping to keep their memories alive. So sit back,
00:03:30
Speaker
sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week. Now Maggie, the case this week, it hit home so much for me. And I know it will for you too on multiple levels. First, that Bill and Peggy Stevenson were 74 years old when they were murdered on May 29th, 2011. Wow. Yeah. And that
00:03:54
Speaker
The pictures of them, it just makes me think about my own grandparents, especially my grandma, the one who I mentioned in the intro, and my granny, who is currently, she always has been, but I think especially so, currently so brave and inspiring as she's battling cancer.
Personal Connections and Community Impact
00:04:12
Speaker
And literally every elderly person I'm in love with, so there's that.
00:04:17
Speaker
Me too. Anthony and I love America's Got Talent. And so we were watching the latest episode because, you know, we're always behind, but there's like this old man. I think he's going to sing and he has this little hat on. He's so cute. I know. I do too. I love his cold hands. So precious. Yes. And that was Bill and Peggy.
00:04:40
Speaker
So that, I think, makes it especially heartbreaking. And the second reason why I think this case was so personal for me is that Bill and Peggy were also very religious. Maggie and I both grew up in church, and religion, it just has always been such a big part of my life.
00:04:59
Speaker
telling the story, telling the story about whatever you want. Oh, Bible sword drill? Yeah. Okay. So when I was younger, I went to nationals and Bible sword drill. So you would have been like, staying in there and there would be different categories. Sometimes they would name the book of the Bible and they would say, draw your swords and you'd pull your Bible up and then they would say, charge and you would go and you would have to
00:05:24
Speaker
turn to where the book was, and you would have to name the book in front of it, that book, and then the book after it, or they name a verse, or they would name a biblical character, and you would have to find it. And so, yeah, I went to nationals. Look at Allison's little celebrity. We go. But yeah, I was at church growing up every Sunday morning, every Sunday night, every Wednesday night, vacation Bible school, revivals, church camp, everything.
00:05:50
Speaker
And it seems like every memory I have of church growing up, there were always those elderly couples that I can remember who, number one, made the best food for church dinners. Yes. Yes. And they always had candy. Yes. And hugs to pass out. That's the other thing. And that's what Bill and Peggy sounded like to me. So I had the pleasure of speaking to Beth Stevenson Victor, and that's Bill and Peggy's daughter.
00:06:17
Speaker
And she had so many stories, Maggie, that show exactly the kind of people her parents were. My favorites that she told me about were hearing just these stories that revealed their love of people. So Peggy was all the time making her famous pumpkin cookies to deliver to others living in their community.
00:06:39
Speaker
And Beth also told me that, you know, in the church bulletin, it would list everybody whose birthday was that month that her mom would write cards to every church member on their birthdays. There was a lady that did that.
00:06:53
Speaker
in my church and I loved always getting the birthday cards from her and I want to be that person. I do too. I know. I tell Rodney all the time, I want to be the kind of grandparent that's the same as I viewed my grandma and my granny. Yeah.
00:07:11
Speaker
And there was even a young child in that apartment condo community where Bill and Peggy lived who made himself at home by stopping by Bill and Peggy's all the time. And he even called them grandma and grandpa. Aw, that's so sweet. I feel like that says a lot about how they treated him, you know, and how he viewed them. And then there were these stories about Bill loving to go fishing and literally anyone and everyone who would go with him, he would go fishing with.
00:07:42
Speaker
And Peggy played the organ at church and I heard stories about Bill sharing his faith with people. He actually was involved in a truck stop ministry that he had started 25 years earlier.
Discovery and Investigation of the Crime
00:07:57
Speaker
So when Bill and Peggy didn't show up to church on Sunday morning, the rest of the congregation knew that something was wrong.
00:08:08
Speaker
because they would have let someone know that they wouldn't be at church. Right. It's weird that they're not there. Yes. And I read that a family member actually went to their residence to check on them thinking maybe Peggy had fallen ill. Beth told me that she did have several health problems. So she had IBS, rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia. So she might have fallen ill and not been at church, but it was odd that neither one of them were there.
00:08:35
Speaker
Or that they didn't let someone know. Right. So when that person went to their residence to check on them, the scene at their home was one that would haunt anyone who knew the Stevensons.
00:08:51
Speaker
The first shocking detail was that this quiet, loving couple, for whom not a single soul had anything bad to say, had both been stabbed and bludgeoned too. Oh my gosh! Right, so yeah, so who could possibly have wanted to harm this sweet couple, let alone for them to suffer?
00:09:12
Speaker
Right. And this is one of those scenes, Maggie, it had to have been so surreal that you just wanted to blink your eyes really hard thinking that you were going to wake up and realize that this was just some horrid nightmare like this can't be reality.
00:09:28
Speaker
And I just picture them. And again, I kind of mentioned this before when I picture Bill and Peggy and I hear these stories about them because he was a truck stop minister. Maybe that's what brought this picture into my head. But it reminded me of this preacher I had at my church when I was younger.
00:09:46
Speaker
His name was preacher Davenport. And he taught all of the little kids in the church that if we ever saw him out in town, like at the grocery store or wherever, that we would say, hey, preacher, that's my preacher. And he would have us like recite it. And years later, he came back to visit our church because he had had to move out of town several years before.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I had been so young when he was actually at our church that I didn't recognize him when he came back. But he called me by name. And it was that recognition that mattered so much to me to this day. He saw me and he knew me.
00:10:31
Speaker
And that's the same impression that I get when I talk to anyone about the Stevenson's, that they just made people feel seen and acknowledged. And who would ever want to hurt somebody like that, though? Exactly. Exactly.
Crime Scene Analysis and Entry Speculations
00:10:46
Speaker
And I think that's also the feeling that Detective Koy Cox, he's the lead investigator on this case, feels as well. I asked him about his pull to get this case solved.
00:10:59
Speaker
and why he feels so dedicated. And anybody who knows anything about this case will, number one, one of the first things they'll say is how dedicated Detective Cox is to solving this case. And I guess I wondered where the root of that dedication was. So I asked him about it in an interview that I had with him. And he stated that this was his case originally. So he has been on this case from the very beginning.
00:11:26
Speaker
So Detective Cox and his partner deal with cold cases and he said that they feel a personal conviction with all of them. But he said it's kind of hard because that personal conviction
00:11:41
Speaker
is, in his words, quote, a hard thing to put into compartments every night and go home, end quote. But obviously, they do their best. And in fact, I think his determination is clear in the Stevenson case through the fact that Detective Cox has said multiple times in various sources, including his discussion with me, that he doesn't want to retire until this specific case is solved. Wow.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, and he refuses to call it a cold case. The closest he'll come is calling it an old case because he has such strong conviction that there can be closure. Well, I like you, Detective Cox.
00:12:23
Speaker
Oh, you would definitely like him. I had respect for him before interviewing him and then even more after her. And it's in my opinion, Maggie, that there's no better person than Detective Cox to have on this case. He was previously deputized as a U.S. Marshal doing money laundering cases in the eastern part of the state.
00:12:43
Speaker
And when law enforcement got to the scene for the Stevenson case, they knew it already. And you'll see here in just a second when I give you some of the details, but they knew immediately that it would be an extremely complicated one. And so once they saw it, they knew to call detective Cox because he had experience dealing with several complicated murders in the past. So Maggie, I'm going to tell you a little bit about
00:13:13
Speaker
what makes this case so complicated. Okay. Unlike a lot of the cases, there aren't stories or details or warnings ahead of time that anything bad would happen. So there aren't threatening phone calls. There's not conversation with family about anything troubling that had happened recently. So this is like just random? Well,
00:13:39
Speaker
I don't want to necessarily say the crime itself is random, but there's no expectation that anything bad is going to happen. It's literally nothing and then boom, the crime scene. Bill and Peggy had actually, and I got this from my conversation with Beth, had attended their granddaughter's graduation on Friday night and then their bodies were discovered Sunday morning.
00:14:09
Speaker
So like the very night after attending their granddaughter's graduation, this happens. But Maggie, the crime scene was unlike any that we have covered on this podcast. It was bizarre.
00:14:26
Speaker
And in Detective Cox's words, this was a scene that quote, the killer or killers wanted us to find and not necessarily a crime scene. End quote. So there could have, the bodies could have been moved. I don't. So what he means by not necessarily a crime scene is that it's not typical.
00:14:54
Speaker
Meaning because it was cleaned up, it's hard to, like a lot of the evidence that you would find in a typical crime scene, you could tell exactly where different things occurred and you can't hear. And I don't know with 100% confidence whether there were one perpetrator or more than one.
00:15:23
Speaker
But for many reasons, I personally, now Detective Cox never said this, he would always say perpetrator or perpetrators, right? Suspect or suspects. I personally feel there were more than one. And that is a possibility, right? So when I'm discussing the scene with you Maggie, I'm gonna use the plural pronoun they. Because that's my personal conviction.
00:15:53
Speaker
So Bill and Peggy lived in a community that had like certain safety precautions. So you would have to normally be buzzed in to be living. That's how my nanny's apartment was. You had to buzz in and she would come over the little intercom and they had like a special TV station at her apartment complex that they could see the buzz in area, the lobby area to make sure they knew who they were letting up.
00:16:19
Speaker
Now, I will say I did ask about the buzzing system because nothing I read clarified anything about it. And this buzzing system did not have video, it was only audio. Okay, so I mean, I feel like they have company at their house or their apartment pretty regularly. So I don't think they would have been concerned with someone coming unannounced and buzzing into their apartment.
00:16:44
Speaker
until you hear what time the crime occurred. So I'll get to that in a minute. But speaking of this buzzing in system, because I do feel like it's important. According to Detective Cox, that safety measure that was provided by the condominium community, right,
00:17:07
Speaker
they don't necessarily know because there's no way of knowing whether that buzzing system was something that was actually attempted by those who entered. So what I'm getting at is it could have been the case that the Stevensons were buzzed and then they let whomever it was
00:17:30
Speaker
into the building, right? That would lead me to say that then the Stevenson's knew the person or persons involved, right? They would have had to have a reason to buzz the person in. But alternatively,
00:17:48
Speaker
Because access to like the hallway, and I feel like a lot of buildings that have the buzzing system, once somebody buzzes them in, it kind of gives somebody access to an entire building or an entire hallway.
00:18:04
Speaker
It could have been somebody else in the building who buzzed them in. But then that would imply that either Bill and Peggy's door wasn't locked or they would have had to have picked the lock to enter. But nobody, from what I read in my research, nobody in the apartments around heard or saw anything.
00:18:22
Speaker
And I also want to mention here that there's also the very real possibility that the door was opened for them by someone inside. Again, you wouldn't have to buzz in or that the point of entry was from the sliding glass door on the back concrete patio of the Stevenson's condo. So they were like on the ground level? Right. So even though there's a buzzing system,
00:18:49
Speaker
That doesn't necessarily mean that that's the way the perpetrator or perpetrators got in. Okay. So I originally wondered, because Bill was a truck stop preacher, if maybe he made it a practice of bringing people into his home to like feed them, give them a place to sleep. Because then I feel like the search for your potential perpetrator is quite large.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I just feel like we hear lots of sad stories that take place at trick stop. So maybe that he could have met the wrong one at the wrong time. Right. So that was my initial inclination is I wonder if he invited somebody back to his home. And while Detective Cox did acknowledge that the list of those who could be looked at in this crime was extremely large and widespread,
00:19:42
Speaker
Bill and Peggy's daughter Beth said that her mom was extremely leery of strangers in their home and that Bill would have never invited anyone they didn't know into their home.
00:19:56
Speaker
So that, to me, eliminated that possibility. Now Beth said, of course, someone could have followed him home, right? But that even if her dad were bringing someone to visit his home church, he would have picked them up from the truck stop, taken them to church, and then brought them straight from the church back to the truck stop. Oh, OK. There wouldn't have been any way for them to really know where they lived. Right.
00:20:22
Speaker
And remember how I said, you know, this was especially odd because of the time, the crime, their murders took place between one and four in the morning on May 29. Okay. Well, my granny was like 81, I think when she passed away and she was in the bed by like 8 PM.
00:20:45
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, I'm, I'm already in the bed. So that makes it even more odd to me. So you have that the crime took place between one and four. And knowing how much Peggy was against inviting those that they didn't personally know into their home.
Investigation Challenges and Theories
00:21:04
Speaker
That's what makes me think that they themselves wouldn't have just buzzed anybody in if in fact, that is how somebody got in.
00:21:14
Speaker
And I, so in my head, again, I'm always trying to hypothesize and I'm like, well, maybe they were in the home from earlier, right? Maybe Bill and Peggy let them in like at dinner time, and then whoever did this just didn't leave. So I asked Detective Cox if he thought that maybe the perpetrators had been let into their home before those early morning hours, because again, in my head,
00:21:42
Speaker
it being that late at night or early in the morning would have made Peggy even more concerned. But he believes that the murders occurred fairly soon after the perpetrator or perpetrators entered the residence. Okay. So he doesn't think they were just like hanging out all day there. Right. And one of the odd details about this case that we do know is that the person or persons responsible were in the residence for hours afterward.
00:22:12
Speaker
Oh, because you said they cleaned it up, right? Yes. And in addition to that, literally every room in their home had been staged. What? Something had been touched or altered or moved in every single room.
00:22:34
Speaker
Weird. Detective Cox and the Boone County Sheriff's Office have kept many of the details close to the vest, in this case Maggie, in order to know who the true perpetrator is. But they have revealed that at some point it is a possibility that the person or persons responsible left the residence, perhaps to make sure that like no police were coming and then returned to the crime scene to stage it.
00:23:05
Speaker
Is that normal? That seems weird to me. No, it is not. And I'll get to the specifics about that in just a second. But that's one detail that led me to ask if there were more than one person involved. Because if this were a community where you had to be buzzed in, then how could you leave and then get back in? Because you'd have to get buzzed in again. Unless you left the back door open. True.
00:23:32
Speaker
And that's one possibility, right? It's possible that you left a door open. It's possible that if there were multiple people involved, then the others who were responsible buzzed the person back in or stayed at the crime scene the entire time. Or it's possible, again, if they're getting in some other way than buzzing in,
00:23:55
Speaker
that a different person or persons returned to the scene to stage and alter it. So all of those are possibilities. This is a very different case. Very different. And law enforcement, we know that that Bill and Peggy were both stabbed and bludgeoned to death.
00:24:18
Speaker
But law enforcement has never named with what object or objects Bill and Peggy were beaten. So we know that they were stabbed, but we don't know if the blunt force trauma were caused by the handle of the knife. And so there's only one murder weapon or if there were multiple.
00:24:44
Speaker
So regardless, law enforcement has not yet recovered the weapon or weapons, whether that's one, two, or even three objects. So obviously that's of utmost importance in this case is trying to find the murder weapon or weapons. And here's another super odd detail.
00:25:06
Speaker
So I keep saying between one and four is when the crime occurred, right? Interestingly, Maggie, police know the exact time at which they were murdered because of a medical device that was implanted in one of the pair. But they have not released that time to the public.
00:25:31
Speaker
They have just said that the crime occurred between one and four in the morning, like I mentioned earlier. But Detective Cox, not in my interview, but in an interview that he did with Jennifer Knoll of Spectrum News, he said, quote, so whoever chose this because of the location, because of the time, because of it being in a residence where people are above and next door,
00:25:56
Speaker
The one thing that is really, really obvious is that both Bill and Peggy had to die," end quote. This case is kind of giving me the creeps a little bit. Yeah. And I don't know if we've ever covered a case for which the time that it occurred was significant. Mm-hmm. But if I'm, because you know I like to psychoanalyze and break things down. And if I were to break down that statement,
00:26:25
Speaker
Because of the time, it was obvious that both of them had to die. It makes me think that it had to be a time that was significant to the both of them. What do you mean? I'm speculating again here that maybe the time matched something like a date that was important to them, like an anniversary or something like that.
00:26:53
Speaker
And obviously, time, because all Detective Cox said was because of this time, refers not just to the clock time, but also the date and the day of the week. And Detective Cox did clarify one thing in my interview with him. Here's what he stated, quote, we have vetted that date over and over and over and continue to do that, especially with it being Memorial Day weekend, May 29th, 2011.
00:27:23
Speaker
and with Bill having connections to the military.
00:27:27
Speaker
And quite honestly, we think more than the date being significant, we think that the day of the week was significant, the early morning hours of Sunday morning. We think that was probably used knowing by the person or persons who committed these crimes that they chose a Sunday morning because they thought that the bodies would definitely be found very quickly when they were missed for church.
00:27:53
Speaker
both Bill and Peggy, which would have been unusual, and maybe even that someone from the church or someone not connected to the perpetrators would have found them." Okay, so this is just way above my level of thinking.
00:28:16
Speaker
Like, hence the reason I could never be a murderer, because I just could not put in, like, my brain cannot work like that. I don't, you know what I mean? Like, there's just so much detail if you're even going down to the day of the week is significant, which I mean, I'm sure helps because maybe you could narrow it down that way, but I just guess I'm not smart enough to be a murderer. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Well, this particular crime scene is so complicated because of all of those
00:28:47
Speaker
every detail is important. You know what I mean? The time, the date, the day of the week, you know, all of that, the staging. And speaking of all of that, it seems wild for me to think that whoever committed this crime was so comfortable at the scene that they could stay around for so long afterward and makes me feel like
00:29:17
Speaker
maybe Bill and Peggy knew the person or at least the person knew their way around the condo. So I too kind of get the feeling that they would have known the person because I don't know I just feel like there's so much that goes into play like the date being significant the day of the week being significant the time like I feel like they would
00:29:48
Speaker
have to know. Right. And another detail that, again, to me indicates that the killers knew the Stevensons or at least knew their condo is that Detective Cox revealed that the Stevenson's residence was in the rear of the community in which they lived. So you mentioned earlier about it being random. And I've
00:30:14
Speaker
I didn't want to go. I would never say that because most random attackers aren't going to go to the rear of the community. Yeah. They're not going to go to a place like the Stevenson's home for which there's only one way in and one way out.
00:30:30
Speaker
And per my discussion with Detective Cox, their condo was in the back of a residential development that butts up to other residential developments. So there aren't even like businesses around. This isn't a busy area. There's not a gas station where you could be like, Oh, it makes sense. It's, you know, somebody's going to be there at one in the morning.
00:30:49
Speaker
He said that there's an access road to that condo community that has even like a geographical barrier. There's this large mound that in height kind of almost comes to the top of the structure. So it would block the condos, like the view to the backyards, right? Yeah, but that could be strategic, correct? Yeah. And so one would have had to have known
00:31:14
Speaker
where to enter on that road, would have had to have gone by the clubhouse, and then drive all the way to the end of the street to get to their condo. So again, they had to have known where it was. This is not random. But then again, most attackers aren't going to stick around for hours afterward either.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's weird. And you were like, that can't be common. And that's one of the questions that I asked Detective Cox. I said, in your years of experience, and again, he is an experienced veteran officer.
Complexity of the Staging and Investigation
00:31:51
Speaker
If he had ever seen a case like this one or what percentage of cases he has seen where the perpetrator didn't flee immediately, and he said, quote, that one individual characteristic of this murder case puts it
00:32:06
Speaker
in the 1%. That's a term that FBI has used when we profiled this with their guys. Also, the Vidak Society did the same thing. They said, wow, this is one of those 1%ers. So it's very unusual, end quote. Wow. Yeah. And I feel like that is also another clue, because I feel like it would make a different kind of perpetrator.
00:32:36
Speaker
for that to happen? Yeah, I feel like there's so many things that set this case apart from a normal case that might be covered, but that it's just, I don't know, it's just baffling. And remember, he said they feel like the murders occurred pretty quickly after the perpetrator or perpetrators entered the residence, but they're there for hours afterwards.
00:33:05
Speaker
And we know that for one particular reason I'll tell you about in just a second, but in the time that they were in the home after murdering both Bill and Peggy, they were busy, Maggie. One of, it seems to me at least, the primary purposes of this rearranging or altering or staging or whatever you want to call it,
00:33:28
Speaker
was to obscure, as Detective Cox acknowledged to me that it did, the absolute identifiable point of entry. Oh, like we can't say like, yeah, they for sure came through front door, the back door, a window or whatever. Right. So part of the staging was to almost make it look like any of those could have happened. So then we don't know for sure.
00:33:55
Speaker
And do you remember how I said that not a single room wasn't touched? Yeah. So most of the description in my research was pretty vague because again, they're keeping a lot of details close to the best. But in that interview with Jessica Knoll, Detective Cox had said, quote, there were things that were maybe on end tables or up on shelves that were changed.
00:34:21
Speaker
altered, moved, turned over, marked on. There were items that seemed to have no significant meaning left in different rooms. Most of the items that were left at the scene appeared to be things that were probably in the residence." So basically they're maybe knocking a picture over or moving something from an end table to a shelf. Or from one room to another.
00:34:49
Speaker
but from items that were already in the home. And here's how we really know that they were there. Not only do those sorts of things take time, right? But at least one of the couple was inflicted with a post-mortem injury during that time, an injury that occurred up to three hours after their death. Wow. And I didn't read what the injury was.
00:35:19
Speaker
But since that detail hasn't been released, I feel like it had to have been an additional clue. Yeah, it's important. Now, many people might look at the crime scene and think, well, with all these items rearranged or moved, that maybe that would give a clue as to who had murdered Bill and Peggy Stevenson. But motive,
00:35:43
Speaker
is a bit more complicated. In one article that I read, they said that, you know, some easy to see and reachable values were left untouched. So robbery doesn't seem to be the motive. Okay. So like the case last week. Right. And then exactly where Jason's right. Exactly.
00:36:05
Speaker
Other people have wondered, because of the altered items, if maybe somebody who committed the crime, because Bill and Peggy were so religious, did it for ritualistic or cult purposes. But from, and again, I didn't ask Detective Cox about this, and I don't know for sure if that can be ruled out, but it doesn't seem from the research that I did that that's the case either.
00:36:29
Speaker
Right. Detective Cox did tell Jessica Knoll in that interview, quote, the baffling part, obviously, is what I've described. And I say we don't have a crime scene. We have a scene that our perpetrators wanted us to find. So what they had the opportunity to do was to stage things in the scene to look like different motives, end quote. So basically,
00:36:59
Speaker
these perpetrator perpetrators have moved things around so that we don't know what the motive is because nothing is where it should be. So we can't really tell why they did what they did. Right. Yeah. So they've strategically staged the scene
00:37:25
Speaker
I guess for law enforcement because it's unclear the exact point of entry. It's unclear exactly what the motive is. Well, I feel like this is not this person or person's first rodeo. I feel like that's what I would think too. They've had to have done this before. I mean, or they're just really good at deception. Right.
00:37:53
Speaker
But according to my interview with Beth, she believes that the killers were not professionals. And this, you know, she believes this despite the fact that so many things were altered, there weren't fingerprints left behind, like the scene was clean. But this is where Detective Cox kind of separates himself. He noted that they have not ruled out the possibility of this being a professional job. And he acknowledged that, you know, by professional,
00:38:23
Speaker
There are lots of different ways that you could take that. So there could have been someone who was paid to commit the murders. They're not ruling that out. This could have been a crime committed by individuals who had committed hits before. They're not ruling that out. Detective Cox does believe that while they're not willing to give the information to the public, that he, and he was like, I don't want to
00:38:49
Speaker
because this is an opinion. He was like, I don't want to put this on my partner as well. But he, detective Cox, feels like he has an idea as to the motive and that he feels like the alterations were a message.
00:39:05
Speaker
He told Mike Dardis of WLWT in a separate interview, quote, I realize, talking to the perpetrator, I guess, you're not going to sit down and tell us I did this. This is why I did this. But the why is part of what you want us to know, part of the message you were trying to get to us.
00:39:25
Speaker
And I would ask you to communicate. I will work with you. I will communicate with you in some social forum," end quote. And so I asked Detective Cox whether all those different items that were altered or arranged or what moved or whatever, if it was a pattern or if it was just random. Because to me, that says two totally different things.
00:39:50
Speaker
And it seems that his answer to that question, as with most details in this case, is complicated. So he said yes and no. That's basically what he said. So he said that some of the items were purposeful and some of them were random.
00:40:14
Speaker
While there were certain items altered in a random fashion, that there were themes that were consistent in relation to the items that were moved or altered. So like maybe all of the spiritual items were moved in a certain way.
00:40:37
Speaker
Right. And he didn't say what the items were, but he said that there were patterns from room to room as it related to similar items in different rooms throughout the house. So their positioning might have been consistent from room to room based on what the item was.
00:40:59
Speaker
This is so in-depth and I feel like I'm not doing a very good job of giving commentary on this case because I'm just trying to wrap my brain around how crazy this case is. I know and it's so complicated and Detective Cox even said though that at the same time there were those themes and patterns right as it might relate to room to room and a similar object or item that
00:41:27
Speaker
Additionally, much of the alteration was done with the purpose to confuse, and particularly to confuse the investigators who came to process the crime scene. So a lot of it was also done without rhyme or reason. So at the same time you have themes and patterns, you have things done, you know, at one of them.
00:41:51
Speaker
Mm hmm. And Detective Cox even went so far as to say that perhaps some of the items that were moved
00:42:01
Speaker
were to use his words because of, quote, the particular psyche of the individual or individuals, that subconscious touch that would tell us a little bit about the killer or killers, end quote. So as in like what the patterns were, maybe what items were moved or where they were placed could tell us more about who did this.
00:42:30
Speaker
Right, the person or motives or things like that. So obviously, as to what the patterns were, what the items were, or their positions, that would be pure speculation on my part. And if we're honest, just like you, Maggie, I can't even begin to guess what it was. Because I'm picturing my granny's house.
00:42:56
Speaker
And she had so much stuff and so many whatnots. Like I wouldn't even begin to know what it could have been in their home. Right.
00:43:08
Speaker
other than knowing that in my head, and again, this is about as far as I'll go in my speculation, is that whatever it was, if there was a pattern of an object from room to room, then it would have to at least be an object that Bill and Peggy owned a lot of multiple of, yeah.
00:43:27
Speaker
In August of 2012, the Kentucky State Police Crime Lab made a potential breakthrough in the case when they found DNA on several items from the crime scene. I know, so super hopeful. That DNA profile was submitted to CODIS, but it didn't have any hits. According to Detective Cox, the DNA samples are also a bit complex. So while obviously it offers a DNA profile,
00:43:56
Speaker
whatever sample was found is not suitable for genealogy testing, which is when they can identify somebody by a relative's DNA. Yeah, people are totally against that. Right. Nor was this DNA sample suitable for phenotyping, which is when they can determine things like height and hair color and all of that stuff. Law enforcement, though, has not disclosed why the DNA is complicated.
00:44:26
Speaker
Right. I feel like it's either good DNA or not. Right. I mean, that's what I would think. So I did my own research.
00:44:34
Speaker
about why DNA could be complicated in certain ways. And the biggest reason that I found was that the sample could be a mixture of DNA from separate individuals if my DNA somehow mixed with your DNA, mixed with Anthony's, mixed with Rodney's, whatever. And so that complicates that DNA sample.
00:45:01
Speaker
So it could be a sample from two or more individuals involved. And so again, that's why in my mind, I keep talking about perpetrators. And I wanted to add here, I feel like when we hear perpetrators, our mind automatically goes to two, but there could have been more than two as well.
00:45:25
Speaker
Right, because you said someone could have just came to help rearrange stuff. Right, exactly. Detective Cox said that, and I respect this so much, that there have been many suspects in this case
00:45:41
Speaker
for one primary reason, and that is because his partner and he believe in his words, quote, every situation where we receive information related to a possible suspect, that it's our job to believe that, okay, that's the person who did it. And then we go out, they have to prove to us somehow by documentation, some hard fact that this is not the person who did it.
00:46:08
Speaker
So even though we have our theory from the beginning of the case, which is still there and which circumstantial evidence points toward, when we get information on a new suspect, then it's our job to shut all of those walls down and say,
00:46:24
Speaker
This is the guy who did it and let's go get it out of him." End quote. They have to look at each tip with a fresh set of eyes. And I think that's really great because we've talked about that in several cases, that investigators are so certain that it's person A, that really it could be person B, but they're so set on it being A that they can't see it any other way.
00:46:52
Speaker
And I feel like, yeah, I get the feeling that Detective Cox and his partner are the opposite of that. They are very willing to look at it, each new tip that comes in until it is fully vetted.
00:47:08
Speaker
And they have actually vetted over 90 people in this case. Wow. Yeah. So a lot in the last 10 years. And again, you know, I don't think I mentioned the specific town, but this is near Florence, Kentucky and- Florence, y'all.
Dismissal of Theories and New Leads
00:47:25
Speaker
Florence, y'all. For those of you not from Kentucky, there's a water tower. And I think I always heard it originally said Florence Mall. Yeah, I did too. I don't know if that's correct.
00:47:35
Speaker
I don't know, but now it says Florence Yall. So that's how Florence is known as Florence Yall. But it makes it even, not to say that small town, obviously law enforcement isn't impressive always, but it makes it even more impressive to me how far they have gone in investigating this case. So over 90 people have been vetted where
00:48:03
Speaker
They have taken DNA samples, fingerprints, and Detective Cox actually told me that he's pretty sure at this point he and his partner have traveled to 15 different states to interview suspects. And they aren't slowing down. I feel like Detective Cox needs some type of recognition. He needs an award, a plaque. Yes.
00:48:26
Speaker
Or even on, and I think probably the best recognition for him, if I had to speak for him from what I gather, would be if somehow the story got national news attention. And he could get answers. I think that's what he wants more than anything. But I personally do feel like you do, Maggie, that he needs some sort of commendation for the role that he's played. And he actually,
00:48:52
Speaker
You could tell how humble he is because he was commending Sheriff Helmig and his dedication to the case as well because he said that his sheriff has never said no to him when he or his partner has asked for resources to pursue a lead. And that Sheriff Helmig's commitment is one of the reasons why this case has never gone cold. Well, outstanding job, the city of Florence,
00:49:20
Speaker
Yes. So obviously, this case is super complicated. There are a couple of theories, my theories in this case. So one of them I bring up, even though I'm going to dismiss it. I'll go ahead and tell you that, this first one. And that is the Stevenson's nephews. And this theory is twofold. There were two nephews of Bill and Peggy. And they both come from large families. So they had lots of relatives.
00:49:50
Speaker
But there were two nephews who were living in Texas who will remain unnamed because they were cleared of any involvement. But a tip came in really early on within the first 24 to 48 hours that they could be involved.
00:50:04
Speaker
But Detective Cox and his partner traveled there, conducted interviews, collected DNA, and those nephews have been crossed off the list. Well, if Detective Cox says they need to be crossed off, then I too believe they need to be crossed off. Yeah, yeah. He said that one of them was in Kentucky close to the time of the murders, but neither, they had evidence to prove that neither one of them were in Kentucky when the murders occurred. The second side to the Stevenson nephew theory is a separate nephew.
00:50:34
Speaker
And again, they came from large families. So there were lots of things. Sounds like mine where I have like 21 first cousins. That's kind of like their family. So this nephew, I will say his name, Charles Stevie Stevenson. He was arrested and convicted for a murder that took place about 10 months after Bill and Peggy Stevenson. And so that's one theory. As soon as people hear Bill and Peggy Stevenson's case, they're like, oh,
00:51:02
Speaker
Stevie Stevenson, look at him. And the reason they say that is because he had broken into a home of 67 year old Lee Jennings, who lived in Indiana.
00:51:16
Speaker
And he had beaten her to death. And he was sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole for that crime. So Maggie, because the victim was an older woman, because she had been beaten by an object from the home, because he was a member of the Stevenson family, so someone who, if the perpetrator or perpetrators had been buzzed in, would have been someone that they knew,
00:51:45
Speaker
right? But he was an early suspect. And I had asked Beth, and this is one of the questions that I always ask when I interview someone. And I always say, is there anything that you feel has been misleading about media coverage, you know, of the case or anything that you would want to add that you feel has been left out? And
00:52:05
Speaker
So I asked Beth to clarify that too. If she felt that there were any misconceptions and she said yes, the first thing that she mentioned was how many people believe that Stevie Stevenson was the perpetrator?
00:52:20
Speaker
even though, and this is according to Beth, he had been cleared of involvement. And so she said the biggest misconception is that so many people think that her parents' case is solved because her cousin was arrested. But again, that arrest was in connection to a completely different crime.
00:52:41
Speaker
Right? He was arrested for that murder in Indiana. His arrest was not related to Bill and Peggy Stevenson. Again, that's like what I was saying. People get so focused on one or two individuals they can't see past that.
00:52:56
Speaker
And law enforcement has visited Stevie Stevenson in prison multiple times when they get new tips that give even slightly different information. And Detective Cox said they have gone through the vetting process with him over and over. But he said there are a few people that they've not been able to take off the board. But in terms of this crime, he believes Stevie Stevenson is not their suspect. Okay, well, if he says it, I believe it.
00:53:26
Speaker
Agreed. So theories two and three, again, this is my speculation. Theory two would be somebody from the truck stop. So one tip that had come in that made law enforcement hone in on the truck stop was a tip that there was a truck driver who used to live in Northern Kentucky and then moved to California.
00:53:53
Speaker
And in this article I read, law enforcement was able to track him down and collect a DNA sample, which they have submitted to the state crime lab. But according to an article by Jessica Schmidt for Fox 19, which was published only two months ago, Maggie, on May 27th, 2021, they might have to wait a while for those DNA results to come back. Because- Do we know why?
00:54:18
Speaker
Well, in Kentucky, there is a backlog of DNA testing to be done for multiple reasons. But they have submitted the DNA. The DNA has not come back yet. OK, so that potentially could be an answer. Potentially.
00:54:42
Speaker
This is a hard theory, though, to me. I mean, obviously it could have been a trucker, right? But then how would they have gotten? Didn't you say earlier that they left and came back? Well, they could have. Yes. But if he was going to truck stop, wouldn't he be in the giant truck?
00:55:03
Speaker
Right. And I feel like that's way more noticeable. So then I'm thinking it couldn't just be any random truck driver. In my head, it would have had to have been somebody who had lived in the area. Right. Right. Who had a different vehicle or who had come through quite often. Because again, just like I talked about earlier, the person would or persons would have had to have known the area in the building. Which I mean, of course, is possible. Right.
00:55:33
Speaker
Right? Theory three would be somebody close to the family, somebody who knew the Stevensons well, or someone with a link to Bill's ties to the military. So the person or persons who committed this crime knew where the Stevensons lived. They knew which community. They knew which building. They had to have, in my mind, overpowered the couple without alarm because none of the neighbors heard anything.
00:56:02
Speaker
And they wanted to kill both Bill and Peggy because otherwise they would have lured Bill away from the truck stop. I mean, all I had to say to him was let's go fishing. Yeah, exactly. Right. And they could have lured him away. Or if they knew Bill was at the truck stop, then whoever did this would have known that Peggy would be home alone. But they chose a time when they would both be home.
00:56:25
Speaker
And from what I read, they chose a specific and a personal time. They inflicted a post-mortem injury, which to me seems much more personal. Though I will say whether the perpetrator or perpetrators had a more focused target because of the post-mortem injury on one individual of the couple than the other was something that Detective Cox would not delve into.
00:56:53
Speaker
But we do know that they stuck around after the crime, right, or returned after the crime. They were there for a while. They arranged items in the home that they cleaned up afterward.
00:57:10
Speaker
And so again, because of the quote unquote strategy involved and the personal nature of a lot of it, that it wasn't random, obviously this theory is that again, it was somebody close to them, somebody who knew them or somebody who had links to one of them.
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah, I sort of feel the same way. I don't know. I mean, maybe it could be a combination of both. Like it is a person from the truck stop that Bill got to know. And so they know significant moments in their life, you know, because we know the time was significant. You know, I don't know. This one's bizarre. It is very bizarre.
00:57:59
Speaker
And Detective Cox did say that they had, just like in that one article, that they had recently submitted a DNA sample specifically for one-to-one comparison, that they submitted that sample on May 6th of this year and that they're waiting for the results. But just like I mentioned earlier,
00:58:18
Speaker
because of a backlog, because of the necessary prioritizing of some samples needing testing completed more quickly, and because of high turnover at the state lab, they are still waiting for those results. But I just pray that the results can finally be a breakthrough that's needed in this case.
Legacy and Community Influence
00:58:42
Speaker
Best told me that her parents' funeral was held at a church that could guest 1,200 people and that nearly every seat was filled. Bill and Peggy Stevenson touched a lot of lives and influenced a lot of people, but their legacy remains. Bill's friends recall that he would just walk into their home for a chat. They would even leave their garage door open to give him easier access.
00:59:09
Speaker
They miss seeing Bill's smiling face as he walked in for a visit. Their memories remain.
00:59:16
Speaker
An even more tangible legacy is the one left in Jackson, Kentucky at the Happy Church. According to Beth, a woman from the church, one in rural Kentucky that her father visited often, had asked Bill if he would help her show how to garden because she wanted the church to provide a community garden for those in the area. Her dad immediately went to get a rototiller to take down there and to aid in this goal.
00:59:41
Speaker
After her parents' death, Beth received a photograph of a little boy grinning ear to ear holding a tomato that could barely fit in his two hands. That tomato was from a garden that her father had shown the woman how to grow. The literal fruits of their spiritual labor remain.
01:00:01
Speaker
The Stevenson family make a yearly trip down to McDowell, Kentucky to help with the God's Appalachian partnership, the Gap Ministry. They go every Christmas to bring food and toys to those in need. Their kindness remains. Do clues remain as well? If you know anyone from the Northern Kentucky area who has friends there or who once frequented there, please share Bill and Peggy's story with them.
01:00:31
Speaker
Beth wanted me to urge you to call in any detail that you remember. Maybe someone acting odd or not wanting to hear about the case. She would rather you give detectives details that they've heard before and would be able to cross it off the list rather than them not getting that detail at all. Put yourself in the shoes of the family. Detective Cox had a message as well before the perpetrators.
Call for Information and Reward
01:01:00
Speaker
Here it is in his own words. I would love to know that our perpetrator or perpetrators are listening to a podcast, whether it's yours or someone else. And I would, I always throw out the invitation. There are many ways that they can communicate with me anonymously and I'd love to communicate with them. They obviously had some message that they wanted to convey or definitely maybe they want
01:01:30
Speaker
in some way that a lot of people wouldn't understand, but they want credit for what they've done. And the best way I know to do that is I'm always here. If someone wants to speak to me, there's lots of ways that they can do it and they can do it anonymously. Um, especially with burner phones. I've mentioned that many times before and people who are in the criminal element, they know how to go about that. There are lots of cheap phones out there that you can
01:01:58
Speaker
Sometimes law enforcement might just need the right clue, as small as that clue may be, or someone else to corroborate a memory. Be that person. Be a part of their legacy as well by helping their family and the detectives who have worked so tirelessly on this case to finally find justice.
01:02:22
Speaker
The Stevenson family is offering a $50,000 reward leading to the arrest or arrests of those responsible for killing Bill and Peggy. Anyone with information concerning the case has various ways to give that information. If you are incarcerated, you can reach Detective Cox by calling 844-210-1111.
01:02:47
Speaker
without having to use your calling card. Anyone else wanting to provide tips is asked to call the Boone County Sheriff's Office at 859-334
01:03:09
Speaker
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01:03:18
Speaker
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