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Episode 4 - An Interview with Dr. Michael Torrence, President of Motlow State Community College
21 Plays21 days ago
Dr. Michael Torrence is the seventh seated President of Motlow State Community College. Since being named President in 2018, Motlow State has scaled its presence into international arenas connecting its rich history and location that directly ties the institution to the world-famous Jack Daniel Distillery, George Dickel Tennessee Whiskey, and more recently Nearest Green Distillery, leading to the development and coming addition of a Distilling Program in the College’s academic inventory. Under Dr. Torrence’s leadership, Motlow State has transformed itself into a cutting-edge, award-winning institution on multiple fronts. A passionate career educator, Dr. Torrence has worked in higher education for more than 25 years as faculty, mid-level and senior administrator, and ultimately CEO. His diverse areas of expertise include Research, Adult Education, Student Success, Academic Affairs, Staff Development, Distance Learning, and Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging. Additional interests are Applied Learning within Open Education Resources (OER), Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Mixed Reality, Automation, Robotics, Mechatronics, and Gamification as platforms for education, learning, and training business and industry to increase efficiency and scalability. Dr. Torrence is also an entrepreneurial business development professional, workforce practitioner, and technology strategist. To model lifelong learning, he recently earned a welding certificate through Motlow’s Automation and Robotics Training Center.
Among the multiple leadership programs of which he is a graduate, Dr. Torrence is a Tennessee Board of Regents Maxine Smith Fellow and is only one of two Fellows who has been appointed as a community college president within the TBR System. His leadership and commitment to student success has garnered him many recognitions and awards to include American Association of Community Colleges, Phi Theta Kappa International Society, GlobalMindEd, Complete Tennessee Leadership Institute, among others. Dr. Torrence is a much sought-after lecturer, panelist, and contributor in areas of higher education, e-Sports, technology, and social equity. Dr. Torrence leads and serves on local, state, national, and international boards that influence and shape the future of higher education. He has a Ph.D. in Exceptional Learning (Literacy) from Tennessee Technological University in Cookeville, Tennessee.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-torrence-ph-d-63011b150/
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Transcript
Introduction to Michael's Background
00:00:19
Robert Fine
Well, Michael, good morning.
00:00:21
Michael Torrence
Good morning, Bob. it's good to be with you this morning. I'm excited about our conversations.
00:00:26
Robert Fine
Yeah, it's ah it's actually been a while since we've we've talked. I think you know maybe getting on close to a year. And um i yeah know I started this podcast maybe a a few months back, trying to do something a little bit different.
00:00:41
Robert Fine
um you know We might talk about VR a little bit. We might talk about education. ah But really, i want to I want to talk about you. I want to learn a little bit more about your background and and upbringing.
00:00:54
Robert Fine
and And then we'll kind of just go from there and and see where the conversation takes us.
00:00:59
Michael Torrence
Sure, I mean, that that sounds like a easy set of skis to get on this morning.
00:01:05
Robert Fine
um And so I know actually very little about you beyond ah your work at at Motlow. um So to know tell me a little bit about your, I don't know where you grew up,
00:01:18
Robert Fine
um I don't know ah your family background. um So if you're comfortable, you
Life Lessons from Michael's Family
00:01:24
Robert Fine
know, share some of that.
00:01:25
Michael Torrence
sure sure well ah i'm from an agrarian and industrial ah family and i like to clarify that because i've graduated to the digital and the gig in the emerging tech space so my my my grandfather worked as a manager foreman of janitors at a local Veterans Hospital in Richmond, Virginia, among other things that he did.
00:01:53
Michael Torrence
and And my grandmother actually was someone who ah cleaned homes for the wealthy or well-to-do or who could afford it ah in Richmond, Virginia. ah But both of them, specifically my grandmother, which I know more about, ah was actually from Dinwiddie County in Virginia, Petersburg area, which and in the Southeast, we call that that area the country.
00:02:18
Michael Torrence
Farms, The family had a 400 acre farm during the time that she grew up before she was the first of nine siblings to to move to the city of Richmond and start a family.
00:02:32
Michael Torrence
My mother actually is a a person who's worked in several industrial jobs. The one that people most be familiar familiar with was probably Philip Morris, one of the larger employers in the in the city of Richmond in the greater ah Commonwealth state of of Virginia in that area.
00:02:51
Michael Torrence
Literally made cigarettes. And prior to that, actually worked in a morgue. So as a kid, I played in the morgue, Bob. I know that sounds a little ominous, but ah I learned that life isn't forever, so you better get busy doing whatever you're going to do.
00:03:04
Robert Fine
how How long did she let work at Philip Morris?
00:03:05
Michael Torrence
ah
00:03:07
Michael Torrence
ah Worked at Philip Morris probably a good 15, 16 years. Yeah.
00:03:12
Robert Fine
and and In the factory side of things?
00:03:14
Michael Torrence
Yeah. and in the In the factory side of things, ah quality checks. So, you know, all of my friends who were always asking me, man, why are you worried about the details? Because I had to hear about the details at home.
00:03:28
Michael Torrence
and And she's a very detail-oriented human. So ah she passed.
00:03:32
Robert Fine
and And so i'm i'm I'm just
Michael's Journey to the Air Force
00:03:34
Robert Fine
a little curious what, um well, was she a smoker herself?
00:03:35
Michael Torrence
Yeah.
00:03:38
Robert Fine
what What was her, after her time at Philip Morris, what was her reflection on, you know, working in in tobacco?
00:03:46
Michael Torrence
Yeah, so ah she thought that, and one, she was a smoker while at Philip Morris, Benson and Hedges. I remember those boxes being at at my house by the carton.
00:03:58
Michael Torrence
um But afterwards, she she stopped smoking. And the the smell of tobacco, obviously, because if anyone's ever taken a tour or been around tobacco fields or drying barns of tobacco,
00:04:12
Michael Torrence
It's a very ah rich and and and and and thick scent. She can't stand to be around it anymore. But while doing it, great job, great pay, and was was able to raise a ah little kid off of it. So I think she was okay with it.
00:04:31
Robert Fine
Okay.
00:04:33
Robert Fine
And, and you're, you, you had siblings.
00:04:33
Michael Torrence
ah but
00:04:35
Michael Torrence
No, i'm I'm the only child.
00:04:37
Robert Fine
You're only child. Okay.
00:04:38
Michael Torrence
Yeah. Yeah. Bob, mom my mom said she, she got it right the first time. So there was no need to, no need to have any more.
00:04:45
Robert Fine
thats Right. Why perfection the first time around, yeah you know, why, why, why, uh, uh, why roll the dice?
00:04:52
Michael Torrence
Right, right, right.
00:04:54
Robert Fine
And, and if I can add, was your, was your father around growing up or?
00:04:58
Michael Torrence
No, no, no. Uh, it's just, just my mom and I, it's always been that way. Uh, and, and there's nothing wrong with that. Uh, Sometimes it takes a woman to raise a man.
00:05:10
Michael Torrence
And so I think she she did the best job she could and I turned out pretty good, I think. you know
00:05:15
Robert Fine
yeah Yeah, but pretty good.
00:05:16
Michael Torrence
Yeah, I'm doing all right.
00:05:18
Robert Fine
so you so and So you only knew your your mother's parents?
00:05:22
Michael Torrence
Correct.
00:05:23
Robert Fine
Okay. and and they And her parents grew up in the in the Richmond area as well. So you're you're kind third generation Richmond, Virginia.
00:05:31
Michael Torrence
Yes.
00:05:32
Robert Fine
Okay. Okay.
00:05:33
Michael Torrence
Yes. ah Right out of the, if if if people are familiar with visiting the the Richmond metro area, north side, and and it's the Churchill, Shemarazal area, ah right near Broad Street, literally up the street from ah MCV, the Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth University, and Virginia State University, one of the HBCUs in the state.
00:06:01
Robert Fine
So what what kind of kid were you growing up? Were you a bookworm? Were you playing sports, all of the above,
College Sports and Career Decisions
00:06:08
Robert Fine
getting into trouble?
00:06:09
Michael Torrence
ah all All of the above, with the exception to the last one. So i would say that I was participatory in everything that everyone else did, but smart enough not to be someplace where ah people would get caught doing these quote unquote shenanigans.
00:06:29
Michael Torrence
I'm the kid that would throw rocks. I've washed neighbors' cars in mud because I didn't know any better and I thought it was funny. no But nothing crazy, nothing notorious.
00:06:41
Michael Torrence
Just a young boy with his friends who were boys running around neighborhoods ah in Richmond, Virginia. um The worst thing I think I ever did was probably, I used to love to throw rocks.
00:06:53
Michael Torrence
I don't know what is about throwing rocks and and being a boy or a young girl, but yeah, yeah just enjoyed it.
00:06:57
Robert Fine
Well, skipping stones maybe.
00:07:01
Michael Torrence
um But we would have rock fights where we would actually ah take the lids off of the aluminum trash cans. And those would be our shields. um That goes to the the mindset of being that small and not understanding that you're not.
00:07:17
Michael Torrence
And you can break, you can bleed and it does hurt. um So those are some of my fun, most fun things I did as a, I guess, a tiny hooligan ah running around with with my buddies. nothing Nothing crazy. That's probably the worst as a guy.
00:07:32
Robert Fine
And so now now i you were in the military. And so did you go into the Air Force out of high school or what was the the road to there and and why?
00:07:43
Michael Torrence
Yeah, so so um that's a really good question. I ah wasn't forced into it, but I was choiced into it. out of out of Coming out of high school, I had a full grant and aid athletic scholarship ah to several universities. So the the Division I dream and all that good stuff.
00:08:03
Michael Torrence
And I started off in Buies Creek, North Carolina at Campbell University, going to school, majoring in mass communications, initially and playing on the men's basketball team.
00:08:17
Robert Fine
Basketball?
00:08:18
Michael Torrence
Sometime, yep, basketball, yep.
00:08:20
Robert Fine
You're not that tall.
00:08:21
Michael Torrence
ah Tall enough, fast enough and athletic enough.
00:08:24
Robert Fine
Were you a guard?
00:08:25
Michael Torrence
ah point The point guard. So I think that in some instances, the the alliance of quote unquote presidenting or leading that that comes in part by way of doing the same thing
00:08:27
Robert Fine
Point guard.
00:08:41
Michael Torrence
on a basketball team, not necessarily worried about my own specific stats, but don't turn it over, give it to people in good positions, um celebrate them and quietly one-on-one inform them where they can do better.
00:08:56
Michael Torrence
I think that that's that's one of those, those are some of the skills that i think have been translated from playing basketball at that level, at a high level. But ultimately, ah you know, sometimes young people, and I was one of them,
00:09:10
Michael Torrence
you you think that your talent is actually, if you think your talent far exceeds ah what you're actually capable of. and And I wanted to play and I thought that I should start. And when that didn't happen as as a freshman, I said, well, I can pick up my bags and go elsewhere. So I transferred ah to James Madison University where Leftry Drizelle was the coach, Chuck Drizelle was on the staff and Rip Shearer was the head men's basketball,
Cultural Exploration through Polish Hip-Hop
00:09:36
Michael Torrence
head men's football coach.
00:09:37
Michael Torrence
So I played football and basketball in high school.
00:09:39
Robert Fine
Wow.
00:09:40
Michael Torrence
And we're off.
00:09:40
Robert Fine
And, and, uh, basketball was division one and football division two division one.
00:09:46
Michael Torrence
Division one.
00:09:47
Robert Fine
Okay. James Madison was division one.
00:09:48
Michael Torrence
Yep. Yep. Yep.
00:09:50
Robert Fine
Okay.
00:09:50
Michael Torrence
So I quickly discovered that they were bigger and faster and it hurt. And I really wasn't interested in doing that either.
00:10:02
Michael Torrence
So I came home after that first full year of school having been at two schools and and trying to figure myself out. and And my mother suggested the following three edicts, you can go to work, you can find another school to go to, or you can join the military.
00:10:20
Michael Torrence
And my family has a long history of being in the armed services. So I think I walked myself down to the recruiting station and met with the Air Force Sergeant.
00:10:32
Michael Torrence
A week or two later and got my date of departure for December 7th, 1992. And the rest is history, as they say.
00:10:42
Robert Fine
So, so you finished about ah two years of undergrad and then went into the Air Force.
00:10:48
Michael Torrence
So so one one year of undergrad and then went into the Air Force, ah where I spent ah four years at Elmendorf Air Force Base in between stops at Lackland and in in Wichita Falls, Shepard Air Force Base.
00:11:03
Michael Torrence
And luckily, you know, I wasn't in love with playing basketball as I once was, but I kept playing and I got a ah second chance to play and go to school at no cost with a full grant a to South Dakota State University.
00:11:18
Michael Torrence
after ah being in the Air Force for for that time in Alaska. So the things that are supposed to work out, as they say, they work out.
00:11:23
Robert Fine
OK.
00:11:26
Michael Torrence
and And I'm really thankful and grateful and fortunate that I had the the opportunity to do it.
00:11:32
Robert Fine
So tell me a little bit about how did you like Anchorage?
00:11:35
Michael Torrence
ah if if If I could have stayed at the University of Alaska Anchorage, I would have stayed there and I probably would still be there. it was I enjoy the outdoors and obviously Alaska is the great outdoors places you can still homestead.
00:11:51
Michael Torrence
I loved every minute of it up there, the Inuit. Local folks were great. I got a chance to travel the entirety of the state, including ah some of
Transition to Academia and Family Life
00:12:02
Michael Torrence
the chain islands, but yeah, but also spending time out at Point Barrow.
00:12:04
Robert Fine
Oh, really?
00:12:08
Michael Torrence
the The Air Force had a base basketball team and then the state of Alaska had ah a men's AAU team and and they would allow us to travel and use basketball as goodwill.
00:12:08
Robert Fine
Wow.
00:12:20
Michael Torrence
So we do cool think cool things like go to people's schools and read to them in the, in the, uh, out in the bush, as they would call it. And I actually think I was one of the first people on our team to jump into the water when they cut a hole in it. I forget what they call it, but you jump into the lake in the middle of the winter.
00:12:41
Robert Fine
yeah. yeah.
00:12:41
Michael Torrence
It's really silly to do it, but I did it it was it. It was a cool thing. and I was like, man, if I don't do it, no one else will. um So I've got a lot of great experiences. um And then recognizing the cost of the loaf of bread, Bob,
00:12:56
Michael Torrence
I know it's a strange thing to remember, but I remember being in Point Barrow and in 1993 and going into a store because I wanted to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and the bread was like $7. Yeah. Okay.
00:13:08
Robert Fine
yeah
00:13:09
Michael Torrence
Yes.
00:13:10
Robert Fine
Yeah, no, i yeah I made it as as far as Coldfoot.
00:13:15
Michael Torrence
okay
00:13:16
Robert Fine
I guess about you know halfway between um Fairbanks and Prudhoe Bay.
00:13:21
Michael Torrence
yes
00:13:21
Robert Fine
So a long time ago, actually not not almost around that that period. yeah My wife and I drove cross country and up the Alcan.
00:13:33
Robert Fine
um And yeah, it was a great trip.
00:13:33
Michael Torrence
yeah
00:13:34
Robert Fine
And yeah, ki they loved Anchorage, Fairbanks.
00:13:39
Michael Torrence
so so So did you guys ah take the highway up all the way or did you jump at um take the barge over from Bellingham, Washington?
00:13:48
Robert Fine
No, we we took it up all the way um up ah through British Columbia and the Yukon.
00:13:53
Michael Torrence
Okay. Okay.
00:13:54
Robert Fine
um We did take the, we took the barge back from
Challenges in Higher Education
00:13:58
Robert Fine
ah maybe it was Skagway to Bellingham. um And that was, ah that was an interesting trip. We didn't have a private room. We were sleeping on the floor and, uh,
00:14:11
Robert Fine
I don't know if that it was not, not the, not the best experience, but, but, and, and I remember, we remember there were a whole bunch of German tourists and a lot of drinking and singing.
00:14:11
Michael Torrence
Oh, yeah.
00:14:22
Michael Torrence
I understand. i've had the similar I've had similar experiences, similar experiences.
00:14:27
Robert Fine
And then I had a, we we had a, when I was a conservation or national, we had a there was a, a big wilderness Congress in, in Anchorage ah that I went back for. So yeah, loved it up there. We, you know, would love to just far, I mean, not that far really to fly.
00:14:43
Robert Fine
um But you know, it's just, it it seems like a long way um and yeah you know, need to, need to go back regularly. But I think the, you know, the weather, weather up there is getting really strange as well at the last 10 years.
00:14:57
Michael Torrence
Yeah, it's a lot different. um you know One of the the transitions that you have when you first come from the lower 48 and end up there is that the full days where there's just sunlight and then as it gets colder, it being dark for you know extended periods, you wake up, it's dark, you get off work, it's dark.
00:15:19
Michael Torrence
And that messes with but with folks, aladdian was the arcaddian your was so circadian
00:15:26
Robert Fine
sort Circadian, yeah.
00:15:27
Michael Torrence
you circadian rhythms. And I remember staying up all night because it's light and then it's 630. It's like, oh, I didn't go to sleep. It's time to go to work. um And that that didn't fare well for ah the work that I had to do and in being a sleepy airman. So there are lots of nuances that you have to pick up on, you know, going up there and and doing any kind of work. The Alaska pipeline was a big thing at the time.
00:15:54
Michael Torrence
And then also, the the work that they did, I think it was Valdez and you know all of the oil and natural resources that are mined or That was before 92, that was before 92, yeah.
00:16:03
Robert Fine
Yeah, actually actually, what year was the Valdez accident? Was that before or after 92? That was before, I think.
00:16:13
Robert Fine
Okay.
00:16:16
Michael Torrence
But just, and no, no, no, just really great experiences up there, really good people.
00:16:16
Robert Fine
um Go
00:16:22
Michael Torrence
And unfortunately, when I left in 96, I have not returned, but i did I have kept in touch with some folks though.
00:16:29
Robert Fine
ahead. You haven't taken your family to Alaska yet.
00:16:31
Michael Torrence
No, no, no. we've we've We've gone the other way. We've been to Slavic countries like Poland and
00:16:40
Michael Torrence
Ukraine, you know, almost 20 years ago now. ah used We used to go back there every five years up until COVID interrupted that that rhythm.
00:16:53
Michael Torrence
So we'll do a trip here sometime soon.
00:16:57
Robert Fine
And and how was um how was South Dakota?
00:17:02
Michael Torrence
the I always say that South Dakota is where I became a man. and You know, I thought it was ah going to be Alaska in the military experience, but being in the plains and the sensibilities of Midwesterners is as unique as it is if you're from the north or the south or the west, et cetera, et cetera.
00:17:23
Michael Torrence
But the the common sense of hard work, trust, youre youre you have to be true to your word. Not that I didn't pick those things up in other places, but watching people live them from bankers to janitors, having the chance to participate in local governance gave me a different perspective and respect for, I guess, that leads up to the work that I i get to enjoy during the day with people.
00:17:53
Michael Torrence
So I thoroughly enjoyed it. you We were very successful as ah as a team. South Dakota State Jackrabbits, go rabbits ah for anyone listening to it. um Great, great, great experience there with the normal hiccups, you know ah growing pains of ah being an individual by yourself and figuring it out like like all kids do as they're going to school. But I had the luxury of having Four years of experience behind me in a pretty high stress environment.
00:18:26
Michael Torrence
So it made the transition a lot easier than coming from high school to college, but got me prepped for the rest of my life, I would say.
00:18:35
Robert Fine
What was the, um yeah you know, I don't, I actually don't, haven't talked to that many people that have, and you know, played Division I sports and in college.
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00:18:44
Robert Fine
I mean, what was the pressure of ah of Division I basketball in South Dakota and balancing academics?
00:18:53
Robert Fine
um And I'm just just kind of curious how that how you managed that. and and what were And was it a problem for not?
00:19:01
Michael Torrence
Well, the the variance I would say for any any collegiate athlete is the the levels do impact expectations.
00:19:14
Michael Torrence
And don't mean that people don't want to quote unquote win or programs and institutions don't want to win. But you know there's a difference between being in an SEC school and a non-SEC school. you know The expectation is that you're competitive year in year out.
00:19:30
Michael Torrence
And there's hefty weights associated with that. ah Balancing academics and the the expectations of 40 to 60, sometimes 70-hour weeks as ah as a student athlete, it's real.
00:19:45
Michael Torrence
And again, these are experiences I think that shape
00:19:51
Michael Torrence
all kinds of leadership because the ability to balance doing well in school, not just getting by, but doing well in school, as well as training and being committed and connected to ah teammates from all over the country,
00:20:08
Michael Torrence
Those were, and those are, i think assets and tangible skill sets in terms of being able to communicate effectively, body language, awareness, and knowing where to find resources. is when When you're not good at math or reading or writing or whatever it may be, ah you can find those resources.
00:20:30
Michael Torrence
And I would say like the last thing that was ah shift,
00:20:35
Michael Torrence
As I mentioned before, I was interested in mass communications to get started, and then I was more interested in STEM when I came back. But the idea of missing practice or missing workouts, you have to be committed to that. So literally the reason I became ah an English major is because some of the things that I wanted to do in the STEM area ah conflicted with practice.
00:21:00
Michael Torrence
And at the end of the day, You have to be where you have to be, right? So English english it was. So it's ah it's a balancing act. And ah think people who are successfully able to do it are better for it in the long run.
00:21:17
Robert Fine
So did you have some, um I guess, through your your military years and then the the two years at at South Dakota, did you have an idea of what career path you were heading We don't need any more lawyers.
00:21:30
Michael Torrence
Yes. i I mean, clearly I thought I was going to be a lawyer, Bob. Seriously. i was, you know, when I committed to doing, yeah, but then look, but I was told that too.
00:21:41
Michael Torrence
ah Collins Byrd, who was the Dean and may still be the Dean at the University of Minnesota law school was the son-in-law of one Dorothy, Dr. Dorothy Butler and Eugene Butler III, who was a Tuskegee airman who worked at South Dakota State University.
00:21:59
Michael Torrence
And, I thought I was going to graduate and go on off to the University of Minnesota to go to law school. But they also had an opportunity to to to be a TA a and and pay for my master's degree.
00:22:13
Michael Torrence
And I really liked Brookings, South Dakota. So I decided to stick around. um Moving into... this kind of role, and I never really imagined it to be frank.
00:22:24
Michael Torrence
I thought that I would finish, teach as a professor, ah move through the ranks, um write some books, and you know be as socially active in developing young people as possible.
00:22:38
Michael Torrence
you know The normal stuff, have a family, live live a nice rich life of the academy and I was well on my way until someone said, hey, hey have you ever thought about doing any administrative work?
00:22:54
Michael Torrence
and And as they say, the rest is history. Here we are.
00:22:59
Robert Fine
So you um ended up teaching English for the most part for a number of years.
00:23:05
Michael Torrence
taught taught English for a few years and then took a took a break. I very interested in in coaching basketball, post finishing my master's degree.
00:23:15
Robert Fine
Okay.
00:23:17
Michael Torrence
And I ended up spending some time with Kevin Eastman, who played at the University of Richmond, coached the Boston Celtics World Championship team at one point.
00:23:29
Michael Torrence
So I was running camps for him, helping him with ah skills camps in the Richmond, Virginia area. um Then I get a call from ah my high school coach, Mike Sutton, asking if I was interested in being on his staff at Tennessee Tech University.
Innovations in Education at Motlow State
00:23:46
Michael Torrence
And he reminded me, hey, they have a PhD program that you might be interested in. So school and basketball or school and sport, really, there's always been a duality ah for me there.
00:23:59
Michael Torrence
not having one without the other and trying to balance doing both simultaneously. So I agreed to do that and ended up at Tennessee Tech University coaching ah the Golden Eagles as a person that it was mostly in a support role.
00:24:17
Michael Torrence
But, you know, that's part of it as well. And not necessarily being on the floor coaching. You got to earn your stripes, as they say. But I also got into that Ph.D. program at Tennessee Tech in 2002 two and ah worked my way through that ah before going over to Poland for a little while.
00:24:35
Robert Fine
so i mean So I mean, basketball has really paid for you know three three major degrees over the years.
00:24:41
Michael Torrence
Yes. Yes. All of it. All of it.
00:24:47
Robert Fine
ah Well, so tell me about Poland. but was That was during your PhD time?
00:24:52
Michael Torrence
Yes. um So i'd I'd written about it. It's not. sir i I've written about I was interested in.
00:25:03
Michael Torrence
Cultures, and specifically being in South Dakota, going backwards to go forwards. The Lakota Sioux Nation, there was a reservation near Brookings, South Dakota, and I got to spend a little bit of time, not as much time as I should have or could have, engaging with you know members of that community.
00:25:25
Michael Torrence
And the connector was music. you know I thought it would be basketball, but basketball was just a precursor to you get a deeper context of what moved that community. And it was music among other things.
00:25:38
Michael Torrence
So I initially wrote about as in my master's thesis, the use of jazz in blues and in African-American and Native American literature. And fast forward, I was still interested and thought that music was the great equalizer.
00:25:55
Michael Torrence
as As many people would say that sport is the great equalizer. um But for me, I don't know ah ah person who doesn't like some kind of music. So I thought that hip hop would be a very interesting theme to explore.
00:26:12
Michael Torrence
And at the time, people like Mark Anthony Neal, who's down at Duke University, sociologist by trade, but cultural anthropologist by the work that he has done and some others. you Michael Eric Dyson, they were writing about hip hop from this national trope.
00:26:30
Michael Torrence
And so I had needed to go someplace else to do the work because I wanted to write about hip hop and Poland ended up being the place. ah So I wrote about Polish hip hop as a form of situated learning in multi literacies, still keeping the linkage to literacy and reading and writing specifically English, but contextually trying to understand why in the world would people in a 98% Catholic-backed country in terms of their religious beliefs, be interested in this urban,
Final Reflections and Future Plans
00:27:02
Michael Torrence
gritty theme of trying to figure it all out. And didn't really get get it until probably three months in, in the Bloco Vista, the block of flats.
00:27:16
Michael Torrence
which is the equivalent to the Polish ghettos, but also in their suburban areas um where Puszkikovo and Poznań, where it's really green, Jelena Góra, the Green Mountains, places that you you wouldn't, I didn't expect hip hop to live because hip hop for me was contextualized as a very urban, gritty,
00:27:41
Michael Torrence
pathway to telling the story. um and And these folks in Poland looked at it as a way not just to tell the story, but a belief system. So it was it was pretty cool. I i had a great a couple of years there as well.
00:27:55
Robert Fine
And and we're we're during this journey. Did you meet your wife?
00:28:00
Michael Torrence
I saw my wife out of the window of Dr. John Wheeler's office as I prepared to go to Poland and I won't I like she says i embellished the story, but this is what happened. I looked out the window and and Dr. Wheeler was talking and I. Cease to hear him and I was and he said something else and I snapped out of and I said, who is that?
00:28:25
Michael Torrence
And he said, oh, that's Jamie. She works over in the development office and. i I tried to meet Jamie as as quickly as I possibly could, so I met her right before I left and.
00:28:39
Michael Torrence
We got married as soon as I got back, pretty much.
00:28:43
Robert Fine
Really?
00:28:44
Michael Torrence
Yes.
00:28:45
Robert Fine
so like, like dated for just a couple months?
00:28:49
Michael Torrence
No, no, no. So I was i was in and Poland from, I went over in the summer 04, then went back again in 05, came back to the US in 06, 05, 06. ah five or six And she moved to Pennsylvania where I landed my first full-time job in academia.
00:29:10
Michael Torrence
in the academic area and got married six months later in June. Yep.
00:29:17
Robert Fine
okay And so, so I guess that kind of takes us to um almost around the time of the financial downturn. um
00:29:25
Michael Torrence
Right.
00:29:26
Robert Fine
But you, it sounds like you landed before then, ah at least somewhere where you have some stability. So that what that was in the Lehigh Valley.
00:29:36
Michael Torrence
Actually, i started off at Keystone College first in La Plume, Pennsylvania, ah just north of Clark Summit, north of Scranton, Pennsylvania. Everyone will notice that if if they are interested or know the office, know, Scranton, PA, Dunder Mifflin ah Paper Company, ah that is a real thing. And they used to host Thursday night gatherings at the top of that building.
00:30:01
Michael Torrence
But started there and was in student affairs first, assistant dean of students, before I transitioned into an assistant professor of early childhood education.
00:30:14
Robert Fine
So let's, uh, let's shift the conversation maybe now to education. Uh, and, uh, I mean, there are so many different directions we could go on this topic and and I'm not sure which direction to go. I you've, you've now been president of, uh, Motlow state for eight years.
00:30:35
Michael Torrence
Correct.
00:30:37
Robert Fine
And, uh, and you went through, you know, a number of different kinds of administrative positions to get there and I'm assuming now when with that eight years, you've you've learned ah huge amount about the ah the higher education academic world, the finances behind it, how it works,
00:30:57
Robert Fine
um the yeah the progress of you know early education through secondary, you know through to higher ed.
00:31:10
Robert Fine
but What have you learned? what's what's what's what's well what's what's working and what's not where I mean, i you know, I think we're at a very interesting point in, the you know, in the economy and and where we are in in job development.
00:31:18
Michael Torrence
Yeah. Right.
00:31:30
Robert Fine
I mean, there's now, you know, the the cost of college has been harped on quite heavily for a few years now. You know, the focus on ah more technical colleges, more um training for, you know,
00:31:47
Robert Fine
quote unquote blue collar jobs, um more emphasis on that. And and um
00:31:58
Robert Fine
But we are we are fall we are still kind of falling behind at ah at a global level when compared to other countries when it comes to reading, writing, you know arithmetic.
00:32:05
Michael Torrence
Yeah.
00:32:09
Robert Fine
um I mean, it's it's amazing you know that that America keeps its lead ah with you know the the research and the work that comes out of you know Silicon Valley for the most part.
00:32:21
Robert Fine
um Apart from that, you know be interesting you know where where would we be in the ah the global economy?
00:32:28
Michael Torrence
Yeah, I mean, i ah I'll start there, but because I think that's a one. It's a we are, as you said, we're and and ah at an inflection point as a country in relation to what does it mean to lead and on a global scale and.
00:32:47
Michael Torrence
we We do have Silicon Valley. We do have the work that takes place at Arizona State University in terms of delivering education in a flexible, former formidable way. Southern New Hampshire has been a great example of that.
00:33:04
Michael Torrence
So his Western Governors University has been a great example of that. We have the MITs of the world that turn out high level logical reasoning
00:33:18
Michael Torrence
technology as a bent, but it's really mathematically inclined. and And that's given us the ability to to scale some things. And then I think that in not trying to give it it as as an answer, but one of the reasons I think that we as a country continue to lead is because of the entrepreneurial spirit of the young folks who are making magic happen with emerging platforms. And and not always technology. They they they could be you know, regional regional or reasonable ways ah to go about manufacturing and adding the digital bent or the emerging technology slant to some already existing practices from industrial or agrarian backgrounds.
00:34:04
Michael Torrence
this This concept of where we will reside, I think, Huntsville, Alabama, Nashville, Tennessee, and we don't call it a research triangle and in in the Southeast like they do in North Carolina with with North Carolina State, Chapel Hill, Duke, and Wake Forest be on the outskirts of that.
00:34:28
Michael Torrence
But between Vanderbilt, Middle Tennessee State University, University of Alabama Huntsville, University of Tennessee Southern, and then you know bisecting going northeast, we have access to the University of Tennessee Space Center, University of Tennessee Knoxville, and then ultimately ah community and technical colleges within the Tennessee Board of Regents system.
00:34:55
Michael Torrence
tennessee technology Tennessee Technological University is also included in that that triangle. So this idea of replicating, and again, this isn't an answer, but it's it's a perspective.
00:35:08
Michael Torrence
We have an opportunity to create something unique, you know stretching all the way to Bristol where East Tennessee State University is by creating a triangle that stretches out like that based on the work that's needed in the Appalachia area.
00:35:22
Michael Torrence
mountains in supporting the emergent industries that are behind screens and use software, but absolutely need people power and can't just simply rely on, in some instances, the bazooka of AI that people are trying to espouse as this is going to solve everything.
00:35:46
Michael Torrence
it will not solve everything. i don't know that there's one thing that solves everything, ah but it will be a component, an important component in how we train, develop over the lifespan of people, because i think we're all recognizing now that higher education's responsibility has always been to prepare people to ah impact ah their economies post-graduation.
00:36:09
Michael Torrence
ah But now we recognize that jobs are going to expand and swell quickly. What you do when you first get hired, it could change within 180 days and you're expected to pick up a couple of new skills ah to keep emerging and growing with the talent pool and the expectations of your duties and responsibilities in the organizations.
00:36:31
Robert Fine
Well, I'm curious to you know hear your thoughts about, and we go on on an AI for a while. um you know We've been running, i feel like i feel like as a society, we've been we're running two grand experiments. that The last experiment for the last 10 years has been the impact of ah social media on an entire generation.
00:36:56
Michael Torrence
Right.
00:36:56
Robert Fine
um How they think, how they how they interact, how they socialize. their attention spans. um I mean, so many different areas. And we're now kind of starting another huge social social experiment with ah with AI. And I'm, and you know, and isnt as and yeah as an English teacher, and i mean, I don't know, i'm not, I'm not privy to how AI is being used today right now within elementary schools or or secondary.
00:37:27
Michael Torrence
Yeah, hoping that
00:37:29
Robert Fine
My own experience, yeah you know I i'm
00:37:34
Robert Fine
i mean, AI is is wonderful for for cleaning up your your writing, but is are we going to lose an entire generation that doesn't know the basics of of the English language?
00:37:49
Robert Fine
ah because ai has been their crutch and has just you know made it so easy.
00:37:55
Michael Torrence
yeah i'm i'm hoping that those who are in the pre-K to 12, so the primary, middle, and secondary schools, they're going to be folks who still think it's valuable, and it is, it is valuable, to be able to parse a sentence on a board.
00:38:16
Michael Torrence
And whether that board's a whiteboard or it's a generated software platform that allows you to parse sentences, Being able to just deconstruct the language is just as important as being able to construct the language.
00:38:28
Michael Torrence
ah You have to know the parts, you have to know the practices, and you have to know the principles of language. Without language, you know can we do anything?
00:38:38
Michael Torrence
And I know that we can do ah mathematical equations without language, but still, math is a language, in my opinion. So I can't fathom a a a a learning scape where fundamental practices such as being able to write or type, being able to communicate effectively and demonstrate through various levels of comprehension how something is constructed and deconstructed.
00:39:11
Michael Torrence
So I know that we lean into software and we will continue to lean into software and algorithms and the like, ah but the basics I think need to continue to to have you put your hands on things for all intents of purposes for now, because contextual compliant And when I say compliant, I'm talking about actually ah putting your hands on something like the Udara Wilti novel, Neighbor Rossiki.
00:39:39
Michael Torrence
A farmer doesn't just get a bot to do the farming. The farmer still puts his hands in the dirt or her hands in the dirt to see how the soil is, to smell the soil. The same thing can be true of writing.
00:39:52
Michael Torrence
Picking up a pen and a pencil, I know that we've moved away in some states from you know cursive and things like that, but being able to deconstruct and construct language will continue to always be very, very important.
00:40:04
Michael Torrence
just because we are Just because we can talk to Siri, talk to Alexa, or talk to whatever someone may have created and call it by name doesn't mean that's the only way we ought to be engaging with ah each other in our electronic platforms.
00:40:22
Robert Fine
Do you have any insight into, um you know, within the Tennessee public school system and and K through 12, what, how they're adapting or thinking about AI within the curriculum?
00:40:36
Michael Torrence
I do. um my my work My wife works in the high school where my son attends, Upperman High School. And the use of AI at this point, because at ah at a state level and at a system level and at a local level, and and so the systems being higher education, Department of Ed, and the state obviously being the state of Tennessee, but at the local level, I think that there's still some want to understand the framework around what is good and bad prompting.
00:41:14
Michael Torrence
What are the use cases? You know, it's still so new for most people. It's really new. It's not new for you and I, Bob, but it's so new for most people. They want to make sure that the students are doing the work and prepared to go on to do whatever they're going to do next.
00:41:31
Michael Torrence
So at this point, I have not seen frameworks or policies at a local school level. I'm not saying that they don't exist. I don't know all 95 counties inside and out, ah but I can say.
00:41:43
Michael Torrence
um without any reservation that I know that we're working towards that as a state. In December of this year, but Governor Bill Lee has put it together a task force ah that's working on AI policy and scope We know that two years ago, the European Union put something together already, if not a year ago, they they put together a policy already.
00:42:11
Michael Torrence
We'll see the semblance of policy of the state of Tennessee created out of a white paper or research review from a group of intellectuals and business people, et cetera, that will go through our next legislative session 2026.
00:42:30
Michael Torrence
The Tennessee Board of Regents, we have a generalized AI policy that is informing, as you mentioned, that K through 12. But since we have the middle college where we're seeing 10th, 11th and 12th grade students ah taking our courses, it is impacting our kids and our faculty are learning and choosing how they will use it in the classroom and what the parameters are.
00:42:56
Michael Torrence
I think it's kind of The way that we've had Scantron to electronic tests, you know for a long time people, and sometimes so some people may still you use Scantron, but the testing centers, you choose to use a tool, AI, of being in the tool, the new tool, the Nuvo tool, and you have to determine the framework in which that tool is gonna be reasonably, responsibly, ethically, morally, just for the purposes of teaching and learning.
00:43:28
Michael Torrence
the The part about Motlow State as a teaching and learning institution, although we do simplices of research, but we're teaching and learning institution. So for us, painting that picture with the K through 12 is to make sure that we are reflective in what they're going to do so that we don't prepare those students or expect those students ah to come into Motlow ah with an expectation that we're not meeting the mark when they get here.
00:43:54
Michael Torrence
So at at this time, we're just in a hurry up and wait mode, but still moving forward.
00:44:00
Robert Fine
Have any of the large AI companies come to you' know offer their platform to all the students and faculty? I mean, Anthropic has made a pretty big push um and has been deploying you know ah Claude Pro to a host of universities, including and Champlain, where where I teach. And so I'm curious.
00:44:27
Michael Torrence
Yeah, well, we haven't heard directly from, but or I haven't, maybe my CIO has heard from ah group. I have, as usual, you know how I like to move around. So I've been engaging with as many people who are part of the larger bodies like open AI, anthropic, ah perplexity, ah you know, anthropic does clawed in perplexity and others.
00:44:52
Michael Torrence
But I'm also interested in I won't call them boutique, I'll just call them specialized where they can come and actually build out what we need to have in-house ah so we can make sure that it works for us as an organization based on how we work and not a universal ah universal umbrella ah to where they can put pieces and widgets together that meet everybody's need. Like I really want it to be customized to ah the men and women and the students that work at our institution. So that's what we've been exploring.
00:45:27
Michael Torrence
And I'm hopeful that our call this afternoon is going to lead to us being able to pull the trigger and move move forward with some some opportunities.
00:45:36
Robert Fine
Okay. um You and I and you know have originally met through um you know the use of virtual reality and and applied VR within for teaching and for ah nurse training. um it's it's ah It's a very strange inflection point as well for the immersive technology industry, um ah whether it's virtual reality or augmented reality. and And I think you know AI has taken a lot of the wind you know out of um and a VR. And unfortunately, we're we're losing ah more options for for headset hardware. And
00:46:21
Robert Fine
and
00:46:24
Robert Fine
I'm, you know, just from your point of view, where just, just thinking about the last 18 months, 24, 18, 24 months, how is, where's VR, know, within Motlow today? Is it, is it kind of, is it stable? Is it, is it been, is it growing? Has it been highly adopted or are you starting to kind of taper off from it a little?
00:46:53
Michael Torrence
Well, we we still take an integrated approach to it, and it's embedded into many of our courses. So we're not going to walk away from VR.
00:47:06
Michael Torrence
We see the ah Commonly, if you're in the industry and you're making ah your bones off of a particular area or particular platform platforms, you may have seen it as an assault on on VR, you know how AI has been proliferated or is proliferating everything.
00:47:25
Michael Torrence
ah're We're seeing it as an opportunity for us to infuse it further. And when I say it, I mean AI into VR, MR, XR, AR, because the idea of training pilots, which is an area of emphasis for us, aviation.
00:47:45
Michael Torrence
We're using vr platforms and simulated training spaces to still provide hours, FAA rated hours for those who can't get up in planes, but may have some downtime.
00:47:58
Michael Torrence
We're also using and and in and injecting AI into it with our vision systems and our robotics and mechatronics and EV labs, where we're training ah folks to identify and work on problems and solution for cars, trucks, and technology that could be in the warehouse to a vehicle at the tier one and OEM level.
00:48:27
Michael Torrence
We're also looking at how VR can be leveraged to train ah folks who are far away in our distilling ah program, you know, to be able to see it and be in the same space with a rendering of one of the master distillers, potentially, or owner of one of the recognized distilleries within the state of Tennessee or the Tennessee's Guild cohort consortia.
00:48:54
Michael Torrence
so So we continue to see that as a viable platform, i.e. VR as a viable platform, not only for instruction, but also for simulated training environments.
00:49:07
Michael Torrence
It is one of the most cost effective and safest spaces to make mistakes, to determine if the the math is right, literally, if things will work or if they won't work. So I don't ever see us moving away from it.
00:49:22
Michael Torrence
We just look at AI plus VR. plus in the future, quantum and or further spatial computing, how that can impact and prepare us as an institution to support the needs of ah industry and communities that we're serving.
00:49:40
Robert Fine
Fantastic. um I guess maybe as ah as a way to wrap up, ah as you're kind preparing for the next ah academic year, what what are what are you excited about for the next 12 months?
00:49:53
Robert Fine
twelve months
00:49:54
Michael Torrence
um i'm I'm excited about the, I always get excited about the enrollment push. This next 60 days is always important to all institutions, no matter their big, little, small, medium-sized.
00:50:12
Michael Torrence
I get refreshed on an annual basis, ah meeting new people, new students, parents, post-orientation or prior to their orientation to the institution.
00:50:25
Michael Torrence
So I'm always excited because the most important part of all of this this is about people. It's about the students, about the trainee. And that's where I start every day. I think that's why i get up still excited about, OK, who do I get to meet today? What do we get to do together today?
00:50:41
Michael Torrence
Programmatically, we are launching our distilling program this fall with support from the Tennessee Distillers Guild, but principally Uncle Nearest, Whiskey and Jack Daniel.
00:50:53
Michael Torrence
And we hope to continue to expand on the spirits industry and maybe move into some other areas as supported and directed ah by our partners to help continue to build and support an important ecosystem and industry for the state of Tennessee.
00:51:15
Michael Torrence
we're engaging in some, some nuanced programs that I think are important, but may not be as, I don't know what, I don't want to use the word sexy here. Cause don't know if people get that, that, you know, but invigorating, um, I'm interested in the arts area.
00:51:37
Michael Torrence
Uh, we've, dug really heavily into the science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and aviation area the the first eight years here.
00:51:48
Michael Torrence
So the the next focus areas will be things like gospel choir, trying to build a recording studio, leather making or working with tools that it's not whittling but it is tied to craftsmanship those those are some areas of interest and bob we have a unique service area because we're around so many lakes and airports so conceptually having conversations with
00:52:23
Michael Torrence
Chambers of Commerce, the state of Tennessee, local communities about Aerotropolis, where we build appropriately sized cities that infuse economic and community development into rural areas through building around these smaller airports.
00:52:40
Michael Torrence
And then the idea of these lakes as additional spaces to build ah economic impact. ah for those who formerly farmed or logged, et cetera, in some capacity to be able to create livable wages so folks don't feel that they need to ah leave for cities.
00:53:05
Michael Torrence
And the last part is probably how do we take the emerging technology platforms such as VR, such as AI, such as the various forms of compute and make sure that rural kids are prepared for global jobs.
00:53:26
Michael Torrence
And I hope that I'm saying that right. And it resonates not only with you and I, but with the listeners, the concept of making sure that no matter where a person is from or resides or chooses to reside, that there is a way for them to successfully sustain themselves and live the kinds of life lives that they would they would that they would like to live.
00:53:49
Michael Torrence
So that I guess that's another why or purpose for me over the next several years. Like, how do we make sure that we can frame that and that it remains viable beyond the lifecycle of being at an institution or retiring, that this is something that becomes part and parcel of our mission.
00:54:10
Robert Fine
Well, Michael, it's ah it's been a pleasure. i really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the summer.
00:54:20
Robert Fine
And hopefully you so it it doesn't get too hot for all ah all of us. It's beens been brutal so far this ah this month.
00:54:28
Michael Torrence
Yeah. Yeah. well Well, Bob, I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to chat with you. It's always a pleasure. And it it's been far too long since we've laid eyes on each other. So when I'm up in D.C. this next little bit, i'll ah hopefully ah you'll be around and and have time and and we can connect and break bread and see each other ah in reality, not just virtually.
00:54:53
Robert Fine
Well, come, come, come join us in Iceland in November for our seventh European conference.
00:55:00
Michael Torrence
Wow. ah Please send me the dates. All right, take care.
00:55:05
Robert Fine
Take care.
00:55:06
Michael Torrence
Thank you so much.