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Episode 449: And just like that, the season is over
71 Plays2 years ago
I’ll admit, I was not quite ready for the 2023 season to end. A season that had once been virtually left for dead had come roaring back to life over the last couple months and I had sorta talked myself into the belief that this season was destined to end at MLS Cup. Maybe not actually lifting, but at least making a valiant charge, maybe even with Nicolas Lodeiro and Raúl Ruidiaz putting in a couple notable performances along the way. Nothing I saw against LAFC totally dissuaded me from believing that outcome was at least plausible, but the 1-0 loss at least means it’s no longer possible. If I’m to pull back a little, I suppose the final game was rather predictable. The Sounders played reasonably well -- I think you can even say they outplayed LAFC -- but couldn’t convert their chances, while LAFC made the most of theirs. Maxime Crepeau is a big reason why the sounders couldn’t convert, but the decisive factor ending up being the most predictable thing ever: Denis Buounga racing down the left wing and firing an absolute laser past Stefan Frei. Sponsors Full Pull Wines Watson's Counter Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which became a reader-supported website on Aug. 21. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more: https://www.sounderatheart.com/about/ You can also support the show by checking out our line of merch including every past YachtCon design and our latest skull-and-crossbones logo.
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Transcript
Introduction to NOS Arietes
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to NOS Arietes.
Sponsorship by Full Pull Wines
00:00:06
Speaker
This episode of NOS Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of NOS Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
Sounders' MLS Cup Highlights
00:00:28
Speaker
A.O. Shen! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win! Here come three years through the middle to crown it the vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Niko Liddo leaves out!
00:01:12
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:26
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietes, sponsored by Full Pool Wines, Watson's Counter, and our subscribers. This is episode 448, and we're recording on Thursday, November 30th, 2023.
Sounders' 2023 Season Journey
00:01:37
Speaker
I'm your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lickett.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, I'll admit I was not quite ready for the 2023 season to end. A season that had once been virtually left for dead, had come roaring back to life over the last couple months. And I had sort of talked myself into the belief that this season was destined to end at MLS Cup. Maybe not actually lifting, but at least making a valiant charge. Maybe in with Nico Ledero and Raul Ruidias putting in a couple notable performances along the way.
00:02:06
Speaker
Nothing I saw against LAFC totally dissuaded me from believing that outcome was at least plausible, but the 1-0 loss at least means it's no longer possible.
Analysis of Loss to LAFC
00:02:16
Speaker
If I'm to pull back a little, I suppose the final game was rather predictable. The Sounders played reasonably well. I think he'd even say they outplayed LAFC.
00:02:25
Speaker
But they couldn't convert their chances while LAFC made the most of theirs. Maxine Crippo was a big reason why the centers couldn't convert, but the decisive factor ended up being the most predictable thing ever. Danny Bewonga racing down the left wing and firing an absolute laser past Stefan Fry. Aaron, what did you make of all this and the rather dispiriting end of the season?
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you're... I don't have a lot to disagree with there. I was pretty optimistic about this game. I thought the sounders were favorites in this game.
00:02:57
Speaker
But if they were going to lose, this is how they were going to lose. I would have been shocked if they had lost a 4-3 game. I thought the Sounders played really well. I thought LFC was exceptional. I think that they did exactly what they set out to do in that game. The Sounders still almost broke through a few times. I think that LFC played as well as they could have been expected to play.
00:03:21
Speaker
Until the goal, I thought the sounders were... They were all over them. That was the thing. I'm pretty sure we talked about this on the preview that we did of this game. If the sounders can avoid going behind, I think they're in really good shape. I was optimistic that they'd be able to do that, but Bwonger was always going to be the X-Factor.
00:03:42
Speaker
I, you know, you can nitpick their goal and find fault on, you know, I think a few different places, but ultimately I don't think there are a lot of strikers in MLS that, that create and then finish that chance. That's just why he's such a special player. And if you're going to get beat
00:04:00
Speaker
in the playoffs, you know, maybe getting beat by Arguably the best player in the league, I guess, non messy edition is not a bad way to go out. I think that was his 37th goal this season. Yeah, he's been incredible. I mean, he's an incredible player and
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, I just, I thought the Sounders did create chances reasonably well. We talked about the Sounders defense and how great it was. And I think if they showed that, I thought they were great defensively, but LAFC's defense was not a slouch this year. I thought Shailini was fantastic. I thought the game plan that they put out there was really good and really well executed. I thought that they won the mind game battle for sure. And that's not to say that the Sounders were poor in any of those
00:04:48
Speaker
areas, it was just LAFC was slightly better. And I think when the margins for your team are as small as they were for the Sounders, it's just not going to be enough. And it was very deflating, but I'm not disheartened. I'm not dispirited. And this was a team I think, like you said, was capable of running, was capable of capable of winning MLS Cup, but it did not feel like a team that necessarily was destined to do so.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and you know, I guess if we're gonna, let's talk about that Bwonga goal. Uh, there's a few breakdowns in it and I don't, I don't even know if breakdown is the right word, but
00:05:30
Speaker
Alex Roldan is pulled way, way high up the field, which is frankly by design, Sanders knew that was one of the risks that they've been running in that, you know, they, they turned the ball over basically at the top of the LAFC penalty bot penalty area. And to his credit, Alex Roldan makes a pretty
Pivotal Match Moments
00:05:49
Speaker
valiant effort to get back into that play. At one point I actually really, I really thought he was going to get back. Uh, he ends up not being able to quite catch Bwonga.
00:05:58
Speaker
But this kind of the two pivotal, the real pivotal parts of it come where Yemar tries to sort of jump the passing lane, doesn't get the ball. And so at that point, it's sort of a jailbreak. And then the last player who has any sort of hope of
00:06:15
Speaker
influencing the shot is Jackson Reagan. And he's sort of caught between two minds. I think he's correctly, at least from a technical perspective, he's playing the more dangerous player, which is Christian Olivera, who's streaking down the middle of the field. He can't really just abandon him unless it's, I suppose you could argue, unless it's Denny Bwonga, who's coming off the left wing. And he probably could have stepped Bwonga
00:06:46
Speaker
But I don't know. Olivero would have been all alone in front of goal. Bongo's a good enough player. He probably could have found him. So I don't know. The angle that he shoots from is not is not a scoring angle, frankly. Yeah, it's definitely one of those goals where if he beat you, I mean, your hat. Yeah, he made the right decisions.
00:07:05
Speaker
You know, I'll tell you the stat that maybe illustrates that play the best. The goal is worth 0.2 XG, which is to say that it's not a completely useless place to shoot from, but the shot itself was 0.95 XG, basically saying that if that shot is never getting saved. Right. Yeah, because you put yourself in that position that Stephen Fry did because
00:07:32
Speaker
That's a really hard shot to make, you know, and it's every I don't I think that any goal. Any goal, I mean, that you can find areas where if this doesn't happen, this probably exactly in the buildup. But I think you got to be looking really hard here. I think, you know, it's a it's a rather routine counter attack where, yeah, Alex is up field. But like you said, that's kind of how they play. And that's how most of this play. Yeah. Right. So.
00:08:02
Speaker
It's a bummer. I mean, it's a bummer, you know, there's, there's, it kind of feels like that as a bottle goal against the galaxy. And what was that 20? 20 to God was so long ago. There are probably people listening to this that don't have living memory anyway. Uh, but you know, just one of those goals where it's like, well, what are you going to do? Right? Like if that's the thing that ends your season, so be
In-depth Match Analysis
00:08:25
Speaker
it. And, uh,
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's frustrating as hell. And I think that, you know, Crapo having basically the equivalent of Fry's 2016 MLS Cup performance was, you know, another factor where it's just like, yes, I think that a team that's a little more dangerous than the attack has a different result in this game, but it's not like the Sounders didn't have chances. And it's not like they did poorly with those chances.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah. Like, yeah. And the biggest one was Jordan Morris, who you made a comment about how the only thing Sounders fans love blaming a loss on more than the ref is Jordan Morris. Yeah. And that's true. It is true. And I don't know. I see this play and I see
00:09:17
Speaker
I see a great play, frankly. Roldan makes a decent pass to put him into space, but that touch that Jordan makes to get around Murillo and then the speed that he uses to get past Ciolini is great. That's exactly what you want. And he comes in and he tries to chip Crippo with the outside of his right boot
00:09:47
Speaker
Well, and I think what was so masterful about this is Crapo is clearly assuming he's going to go to his left. He's playing that angle. That's where he's going. Now, is there a way that Jordan can score that with his left foot if he hits it? Of course.
00:10:02
Speaker
There's a lot of different angles that you can talk yourself into, Jordan scoring this one. But the shot he takes is a
Playoff Strategy Discussion
00:10:11
Speaker
good shot and he executes it well, but Crapo is able to reach back against his momentum and make this left-handed save. That's world-class, frankly.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's an exceptional save and and everything he does He does everything right leading up to the save he gets in a good position where he has the yes He's cheating one way, but he has the ability to To correct because he because of the position he's put himself into he gets out at the right time to where you know He's not he's out. He's able to force Jordan to shoot from further out than he probably would have liked to right I just I think that
00:10:47
Speaker
It's fair to be frustrated with the sounder's inability to score in this game, but I do think that sometimes you just have to say that the opposition played really, really well. And I think that was the case here. I mean, you have maybe the best attacking player in the league, a score goal that very few other players in the league are ever going to score. And then you have a keeper standing on his head. You have the rest of the team executing the game plan really well. That's not to say that.
00:11:13
Speaker
you know, that there aren't things the sounders could have done. But I really think this game was about LAFC executing just a little bit better than the sounders did in a really evenly matched game with really fine
Future Talent and Potential
00:11:25
Speaker
margins.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, you know, there's a lot of oftentimes, uh, especially on extra time, they talk about match winners and each team sort of like at the end of the, in the playoffs, especially it's the team with the most match winners tends to come out here. And I think it would be hard to escape the idea that LAFC is top end talent is probably.
00:11:45
Speaker
the the
00:12:06
Speaker
But he's not, he's also not the kind of guy who you expect to put him, him to put the team on his back and sort of just will him to victory. And there wasn't really anyone else that was, you know, Joe Paolo had a couple of decent shots that Crippo got fingertips to and pushed over. Albert Rusnak had a couple of decent looks. He did actually put the ball in the net one time.
00:12:29
Speaker
that very briefly gave some hope that the Sounders had scored, but man, Ruede has literally set that ball up for him perfectly with a handball. Yeah. I don't think that it's one of those really frustrating things where it's just pure bad luck, but...
00:12:47
Speaker
You know, it really, if that's not a handball, nothing is a handball. I don't think. I mean, he literally like dribbles ball and like almost like, like sets it on a platter for, uh, for, for Rusnak. But, you know, Karpov makes like probably two fingertip saves. One of them, he hits off the crossbar. The other one he tips just over.
00:13:09
Speaker
He had a Josh attention. He even had a pretty good look at goal early on. I was just gonna say I think that that was a tougher save than it looked because it was I thought so too. Yeah, he did really well on that one. And then the one other great chance the Sounders had was sort of similar to the
00:13:28
Speaker
I think it's mascara goal that that since I scored where a free kick basically falls to the feet of game are and he just doesn't get anything on it. And that said, it was cleared off the line by a defender. It had beat the goalkeeper. For whatever that's worth, but it was, you know, the defender cleared it very easily. But that that was probably the other really good chance. Yeah.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. And that, I mean, I think against a different keeper or just a team not playing quite as good defensively, that's enough to get it to extra time. I think in most games. Yeah. Well, I mean, most of the time on the balance of play, I would have expected that game to go to extra time at least. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I mean, that's, I mean, that is.
00:14:19
Speaker
That's the playoffs. That's especially in one game, a one game playoff where it's, you know, it's one or go home. And, you know, I...
00:14:30
Speaker
It's better than a lot of other ways the season could have ended. I would have loved them to get to the final, obviously, because I think that they are heavy favorites in the final against Houston. But LAFC is a good team. They've underachieved this season just like I think the Sounders have, but I think that they had
00:14:51
Speaker
I just think at the end, they just had better talent, you know? Yeah, I mean, they're they have plenty of talent on that team. I don't know that they are getting the most out of that talent, but they definitely have talent. They have, you know, the Sounders would would love to be able to bring the quality off the bench that they're able to bring off the bench. You know, even, you know, I will you know, it's it's funny.
00:15:17
Speaker
There was a column someone wrote for the athletic about how LAFC has managed to sort of
00:15:28
Speaker
make this transition into a new era more seamlessly than the Sounders have, which I do think really ignores that LAFC was bad from 2020 to 2021, which is just three years into their existence. And by the way, they kept Carlos, and that was when Carlos Vela was struggling to stay healthy. By the way, they kept him. Vela hasn't been great, although he still has, I think he has like nine goals and seven assists this year.
00:15:55
Speaker
That's a pretty good down year, I suppose. But it's not so different than what Ledera was last year.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I guess, I guess that's fair, but LAFC didn't, I don't know. LAFC didn't win the Champions League, you know, LAFC has won one in the Luscop, right? They won two? They won one. Yeah. They won one in the Luscop, two shields. They haven't, you know, like you said, they haven't been as consistently good as the Sounders.
00:16:27
Speaker
I don't know, man. I mean, I shouldn't care as much about stuff like that, but it is really annoying to me. It is. And I actually think this year, from a transitional standpoint, actually was pretty positive for the sounders. If there's anything that makes me feel really good about this year, it's that I genuinely feel like there's a really solid foundation going forward. And I've said this a few times, I wouldn't be totally shocked if the sounders opened
00:16:53
Speaker
first kick next year with the exact same lineup that started this game. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what I want them to or what I think they should do. But I think it illustrates that
00:17:05
Speaker
They had, they've already started this transition. They've already started a post-Nico Ledero era, a post-Bral Rui Dias era. And, you know, we don't really know what's going to go on with Rui Dias. We don't know what's going to go on with a few of these guys. But there is clearly a foundation here. You know, Jackson Reagan, Yeymar, Alex Roldan, Nuhu, Reed Baker Whiting, Josh Atencio, Zhao Paolo.
00:17:28
Speaker
Christian Roldan, Jordan Morris, all these guys are almost certainly going to be back next year and playing significant roles. And that's, you know, that's, that's a really good competitive, probably playoff caliber team. And that's before you add on, you know, potentially, you know, I assume Albert Rusnak is going to be back. You have, you know, a potential, you have a DP or two that you can add to that. You know, those are a lot of pieces that it, that can really elevate this team to being
00:17:58
Speaker
you know, an elite team again next year.
Transition to New Talent
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that there's definitely I think it was clear at the time that the call was made that it was time to stop relying on Nico and Raul. And I think that there's a reality where they make that decision and nothing gets better.
00:18:17
Speaker
Right. And it still would have been the right decision, right? Because you need to figure out what you have. Right. But the Sounders got much better. And I think we're, you know, one kind of coin flip of a game away from getting into the conference finals. So yeah, I think that there's a lot of questions that have been answered about, you know, who can be effective, who's worth bringing back. Some new questions came up because I think before
00:18:42
Speaker
Ledero got moved to the bench, moved into more of a rotational role and Rusnak kind of moved into the main creative role. He was almost certainly somebody that the sounders weren't going to bring back. Now, it's kind of another great clip, right? So they learned a lot and also gave us some pretty good games down the stretch, gave us some entertainment, some hope of another cup run. So I'm extremely bullish on where the sounders are right now and I wasn't
00:19:12
Speaker
this time you know in the summer. When I think even if you go back to last year I would be I'm now curious but my suspicion is that our feeling was they kind of are what they are and we are don't have much choice but to hope that if they're a little healthier next year they'll be better
00:19:33
Speaker
But there wasn't necessarily a lot of enthusiasm, I don't think, about, oh man, I can't wait to run this back again next year. Even though we sort of knew that's where this was going. And I'll be honest, I'm excited to see what this team looks like next year.
00:19:50
Speaker
You know, a Reed Baker, whiting with a whole nother preseason and potentially challenging for more minutes. Like he was really good. I thought when he was healthy, like I, what I'm really, I do think this is an interesting counterfactual. Like if he doesn't get hurt in the season finale against St. Louis, how does that change the trajectory of the playoffs? Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's possible that maybe New Who still starts most of those games, but I think just having that option would change. Obviously, they did bring him in against LAFC. He played maybe five minutes before he heard, and that's another thing we haven't really even talked about. The Sounders played like the last 10 minutes of that game, effectively down a player because Baker Whiting was totally hobbled.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, you know, there are a lot of younger players, Rita Baker Whiting, probably the most prominent one, but there are a lot of younger players that took a step forward, I guess, at Tencio is actually the most prominent one, that I'm really excited to see what the sounders look like with Josh Tencio.
00:21:01
Speaker
getting the majority of the minutes from the start of the year. That's really exciting to me because they seem so much different. I think that this year could have
00:21:16
Speaker
It's interesting because the way that you're started was such a shock to everybody, but the expectations got reset really quickly, I feel like. It went from being like, this team's probably not going to be very good, but hey, at least we got the Champions League out of it to, oh, no, this is actually the best the team has ever looked, arguably.
00:21:36
Speaker
Nope, this is more what we thought too. Yeah. You know, these guys are pretty good. Right. Um, which was kind of a fun, kind of a fun roller coaster, but ultimately I think the outcome of finished second in the West, you know, how to, how to want to play off series loss to a team that I think everybody respects if, even if they don't like them, um, in a, in a very closely fought game.
00:22:01
Speaker
I mean, that's, you know, on the balance, I think a pretty good season and as painful as it is to have, you know, to have Nico leaving, to potentially have Rogel leaving. It is exciting in a way that it just hasn't been in a long time. I mean, the Sounders are going to kind of decide what their identity is going to look like for the next, hopefully. I mean, I think this is the most interesting offseason since I don't remember, honestly, another offseason where there was this much
Offseason Changes and Acquisitions
00:22:29
Speaker
you know, excitement or potential. Because the sounders have obviously had some flexibility in the past, but there was always a question of, well, what really are they going to get? And when they would get like a Oba Martins or a Clint Dempsey, it was sort of, whoa, I didn't realize that was even possible. Right. Right. You know, more often it's been like, oh, OK, we're going to get a reclamation project.
00:22:58
Speaker
I guess that might, that player might work out. Sure. I you've, I'm willing to believe that this could work, uh, or, you know, whatever else like this, even when they got Nico Lidero, it was sort of like, Oh, wow. Yeah. Uh, but as you'll remember, he came in the summer. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
Uh, Rudy Diaz, same thing. Like there was this expectation that they had the ability to get a player like that, but we were going to have to wait. And this is the first time where I feel like, no, the expectation is fully that they're going to sign some notable players this, this winter. Yeah, which will be, it'll be interesting. And I think that does also speak to the development of MLS as a league where you're not just kind of.
00:23:41
Speaker
The winner is for other people's cast sauce, right? It's a league that players that are in demand are interested in coming to, which opens up a lot of possibilities that haven't, you know, those possibilities were opened up since the last time the Sounders made a big move that required a transfer fee and a major transfer fee at least, and all that good stuff. So it's interesting times.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I will say that one nice thing that I don't know. I just had never really thought about too much is that, you know, the, the league and Becky's season is wrapping up right now. Argentina is wrapping up right now. Brazil is wrapping up right now. And I think we sometimes forget that they do have an off season that starts right around the same time that the MLS off season is the differences that all three of those leagues go back into another season, you know, shortly after the new year.
00:24:31
Speaker
But if you actually get those, you know, those players theoretically are, are like available now. And, and so if you can get them, this is the time to get them as opposed to waiting until the end of the summer of the winter transfer window when those guys are all back into their seasons are actually pretty deep and like well into their seasons.
00:24:51
Speaker
So anyway, it'll be interesting. I am genuinely excited. We're probably gonna do a whole episode though, looking ahead to this off season. Anything else about this? I guess one other thing that I should point out about this game that I've seen a few people highlight, and it's probably worth digging into a little bit, is for all the discussion of the importance of Christian Roldan on this team's overall performance,
00:25:21
Speaker
I didn't think he really had a great playoff in general. In this game, he had the play where Chialini looked like he took him down right outside the box, and that was a good play. He had the pass that set up Jordan Morris' chance. That was a good play. But he just wasn't as influential in this game or really even in the Dallas series as I would have really expected him to be. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that that
00:25:47
Speaker
is maybe a little bit informative of the sounder's inability to score against LAFC and really assert themselves too much against FC Dallas in the third leg especially, in the attack at least. I think it's unfair to Christian to
00:26:08
Speaker
sort of be like, Oh, if you don't have your best games, we're not going to win. Right. But it is, I mean, that's not just what I did win. They win. They won half those four years. But, uh, but against LAFC against the tougher, right? To be like, we have to have you at your best to beat teams that are.
00:26:26
Speaker
that were not very clearly better than. But I mean, I think that that was kind of the reality. And we talked about it when the Sounders were playing poorly this year. We talked about it after Christian came back and they started playing well. We talked about it last year when he was hurt, when everything kind of fell apart at the end of the season.
00:26:45
Speaker
You know, as the sounders have gone as Christian has gone, the sounders have kind of gone over the last several years. And I don't think that that's the healthiest place to be, but I don't think it's shocking that he had a pretty, I don't think he was actively bad, but I think a pretty, I would agree with that lacking an impact sort of game against LAFC. Uh, you know, it's, it's just, that's, I would have expected that if you told me the sounders lost one nil, I probably would have guessed that Christian was not as his best.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah, this is not something I spent a lot of time worrying about, but I think I saw that he has no goals in his, no playoff goals in his career, which I was sort of shocked by, but as I'm sort of like running through the catalog of Sanders goals, I guess that's right. I don't know. I don't know what to make of that. It is pretty surprising. I mean, he's not like a,
00:27:38
Speaker
Huge goal scorer. But you scored enough goals that you would have expected him to. You expected him to score one. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Anyway, well, this is a probably good place to call a break. We're going to come back. We'll talk a little bit more about this game. Maybe we'll talk about Ted Unkel's performance, uh, as well as a few other things, but you're listening to Nos Adietes. Watson's counter wants to thank everyone for their patience, but now the wait is over.
00:28:03
Speaker
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00:28:30
Speaker
So one thing we didn't really talk about in that first segment, except for tangentially, uh, and part of the reason is because I don't think either one of us enjoy talking about referees, nor do we like the idea of pinning a result on a referee. And I'm not going to do that here, but I do think Ted uncle's performance is worth discussing and
Refereeing Critique
00:28:58
Speaker
It wasn't good. It was not. No, you watch this game on TV after the fact. I am curious what your because live it felt, you know, you get wrapped up in the emotions of the game. And I remember just being like beside myself when.
00:29:14
Speaker
when the call on Christian wasn't made. Actually, I think I just laughed out loud. But what was it like on TV? What did you make of it? You also had the benefit of Taylor Twelman's commentary, which apparently was pretty harsh, right? Yeah. I mean, I have rarely heard Taylor so emphatic about his opinion about the validity of some of the calls being made.
00:29:45
Speaker
We're both Taylor fans, right? I think that's fair to say. I'm a big fan. I think he's one of the best out there for color commentary. He's a pro, so it's pretty right. He'll say he disagrees with a call, but he was pretty befuddled, I think. I think Taylor is genuinely extremely unbiased.
00:30:15
Speaker
So I think if Taylor is calling this stuff out, I don't think it's because he's a sounder's homer. I think that's pretty fair to say. I wanted to not think the refereeing was bad because I think it's something that gets whined about way too much and I think it's something that is not actually as bad as people think it is a lot of the time. Yeah, I'll use this as my brief interlude to say the idea that
00:30:44
Speaker
We hear this today, or this week, we've heard this. I'm never going to watch another MLS game until the refereeing is better. That stuff does drive me crazy because it's like, have you watched a Premier League game? Yeah. It's so much worse. It could be so much worse. I promise. It could be so much worse.
00:31:04
Speaker
The term I've used over and over again in general is the delta between playing quality and refereeing quality in MLS is probably the smallest of any league in the world.
00:31:18
Speaker
That said, this was not a good performance. It was not. It was not. And I feel like Uncle is probably the worst ref working right now in MLS. You might be right. I don't know. I admittedly don't have a running list of worst refs. He is the only one left. It used to be pretty common where I'd see referee assignments and say, oh, no.
00:31:45
Speaker
He's the only one now where when I see him, I'm upset. I think he's bad. And I think this was a genuinely awful performance. I think it was really uneven. I wouldn't say that the sounders were...
00:32:03
Speaker
Like, on the negative end of more calls, but I think that the way the game was officiated hurt them in a way that didn't hurt L.A.F.C. It felt like there were two different games being called, and either one would have been okay if it had been consistent, but it was the inconsistency. And it's always the inconsistency, right? It's always the inconsistency. It's very seldom, like,
00:32:28
Speaker
this is, you just missed like a hundred calls. Right. But there, I mean, there was obviously the glaring call, the Chilini tackle on, on Christian. Uh, and, and it was just, it was just bad. And it was, I agree with you. I don't think it was the difference, but I think every referee performance has an impact on the game. Um,
00:32:53
Speaker
And it had an impact on this game. I think it definitely had an impact on this game. I think the thing that killed me the most was in a vacuum, you can you can understand why the Sounders had.
00:33:07
Speaker
You know, going into the 80th minute, the centers had three yellow cards and LA had none. And I think in a vacuum, you could see all the, if you watch each foul individually, you could say like, okay, I don't really have a major issue with the yellow card discrepancy. But what was frustrating, I think at that point is there were both Denny Bewonga and Kellan Acosta had both
00:33:34
Speaker
I think at that point four fouls and neither one of them had been shown a yellow card. I don't think either one of them had actually been warned yet. It was just very obvious that they were persistently infringing sounders. It was classic stuff and it did to me at least strike me as some cynical fouling of just like, we're just going to needle, needle, needle.
00:34:04
Speaker
as sort of as a way of controlling the game. And what's so frustrating about that is that that not only disrupts the flow, but you're not giving any consequences for sort of doing that. And similarly, Maxime Crépeau was delaying restarting every like this is obviously this is something that almost never gets called. But the referee can allow can sort of control this to a certain degree if they try.
00:34:32
Speaker
And he made, you know, at one point he had a really long conversation with Crippo about getting the ball out faster. I actually thought at that point he had given him a yellow card, but no, he did not. And he just kept sort of delaying the restart over and over again. And I realized that's like, that's the ticky tack stuff that, but it's just like, there's no, at no point did it seem like he was really trying to control the game with, with, uh, you know, he was, it didn't seem like he was trying to control the game.
00:35:01
Speaker
No, it didn't. I think that it's telling that the first LAFC yellow card was for descent. And that to me is just kind of a slap on the face. One of the reasons that teams that are taking the approach LAFC did
00:35:18
Speaker
breakdown late in games is because they run out of yellow cards to give. That is a pretty common reason that teams aren't able to keep that up for 90 minutes. And I don't blame LAFC. I didn't think they were dirty necessarily. I just think that they had the approach that a lot of teams playing on the road in a hostile environment, especially in a do or die game, especially with a lead and trying to defend that lead for a long time.
00:35:45
Speaker
every team in the world is going to play that way until they can't anymore. And LAFC got to do it for a lot longer. And, you know, I don't blame them for it. That's the right way to approach that game. And there's this belief that, you know, referees shouldn't affect games, especially in the playoffs, that you just got to let them play. And I just think that that's crazy because it's like the
00:36:10
Speaker
Like, where are you drawing that line? You know, like, because it's the rules are the rules, a foul is a foul. And there's obviously some wiggle room there, but stuff that were clearly obvious fouls, we're not going called things that were clearly obvious yellow cards were not being given. And at that point, it's just, you know, what's, what's the point? Why are you even out there?
00:36:36
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I mean, it, it, it did sort of feel that way. And, you know, the funny thing is at the end of the game, this is, I guess sort of, it's almost like gas lady, uh, and it ended up being 16 to 16 on the foul count and three to three on the yellow card count. And so at the end of the game, you go like, well, what's the
Season Reflections and Hopes
00:36:55
Speaker
big bill? Like.
00:36:56
Speaker
He was calling it down the middle. But if you watch the game, it clearly was being called very differently at various points of the game. All three of LA's yellow cards came late when they were sort of free of that being able to really influence anything. And I don't know. It was a bummer of a way to finish the season. I guess there's some small
00:37:25
Speaker
Like, I don't know. What's your attitude about this? I've been, it's always fun. This is a, I don't know. I just think about this today. I feel like this happens most years when the sounders get knocked out. I briefly console myself with going like, well, if we weren't going to win MLS cup, we may as well go out earlier. We may as well go out early, but then I start.
00:37:48
Speaker
You know, I, I start like, uh, looking at who else is out there and thinking, Oh, but I think, I think the sounders could have beat them. Yeah. And, and the thing that kills me right now, especially is I look at the East coat, the Eastern conference and sort of like going into the playoffs. It was, Oh, well, whoever comes out of these is going to be heavily favored.
00:38:07
Speaker
I don't know that that's really all that true right now. You know, Cincinnati is going to miss Miasaga for the rest of the playoffs. They are sort of like scrambling to figure out their defense. They have some questions, kind of like all these questions that didn't seem to be issues at the start of the playoffs.
00:38:28
Speaker
The crew are probably the favorites to win this thing, frankly, at this point, even though they're going to have to be on the road against Cincinnati, but they have the most talent, but they also have a really leaky defense. I think the Sounders would have been massive favorites, maybe not massive, but they would have been favorites against Houston.
00:38:43
Speaker
I won't be surprised if LA wins this thing. I guess this is the point of what I was getting to. I won't be surprised if LA wins this thing. And I don't know if that is what I'm rooting for or not. I don't think I don't want any of these teams to win. Definitely not. I think Cincinnati.
00:38:58
Speaker
You know, I would say actually, I think Houston would be the best because there aren't a lot of fans in Houston, but the ones that are there deserve to be happy. They do. I guess, and you're right, I guess if I had to choose from that perspective, yes. But they're bad. I know what you mean. I totally know what you mean. But I think the thing that kills me about Houston is like, if they win MLS Cup, they're going to win a double. Yeah. They do play like an attractive brand of soccer, so I'll give that to them.
00:39:29
Speaker
But I also feel like I think it would be even more frustrating if Houston were to win because it's like, why know the Sounders could beat them? The Sounders beat them twice during the regular season. Yeah, they're not a good team. And I mean, but that's been the thing all year. There just aren't any good teams. And then the one good team that was clearly a good team all year long,
00:39:48
Speaker
shot themselves in the foot in the playoffs and made themselves a bad team. It's frustrating. I know. I think the, and I totally know what you mean about the, well, I'd rather go out early and not get invested, but I only feel that way in years that I just am not feeling the team's chances. You know, you're, you're, you're 2013, zero 20, et cetera.
00:40:11
Speaker
I really got on board with this being. I did too. I was mentally ready. I was like, okay, where am I going? I'm definitely going to go to MLS Cup wherever it is. I was mentally making all these plans. It felt very much like
00:40:31
Speaker
2016 where I was like, Oh no, to me, it did. I felt like 20, it fell a while like 2016. All the cards are aligned. This is happening. And he's going to score a miraculous late goal to win. I don't know if you know, I'm sure you noticed this. Abert didn't even get on the field. That was man. I'll tell you if there's ever a sign that this is his time here is done. He did not get on the field in this game. Yeah. In a game where the thing that they were really sort of resorting to doing is the only thing that I ever feel confident that he's going to be able to affect.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's rough that that's unfortunate. He looked so good in the first couple games too. Oh, yeah, he's like really various times this year. He looked really good, but Yeah, that that did not that that didn't go well. Yeah, I am kind of bummed that Freddie didn't like I don't know the last two years I or the last last three years less Yeah, I guess last he played three. He played three more seasons with us hunters, didn't he crazy?
00:41:27
Speaker
I kept hoping like, okay, Freddie's going to finally get his playoff goal with the Sounders. Yeah. He's going to tick that off.
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah, it didn't happen, which definitely did not happen. Honestly, is is funny enough that it's I feel like it's OK. It would have been really nice, but it is funny like it is kind of it is kind of kind of in a weird way. I do. He got a Champions League ring. So he did get a Champions League ring. And I think I got to imagine he doesn't regret a moment of his decision to to come back here regardless of what happens.
00:42:02
Speaker
But it'll be interesting. This is a very, very interesting office. And we're going to do a whole episode, I think, about the offseason once we get a better idea of of whose options have been picked up and everything and sort of lay, get the lay of the land. But I don't know, it's it's I am honestly.
00:42:22
Speaker
optimistic. I don't think I've talked myself into that. I genuinely feel like things are trending well. It's pretty remarkable, I think, to be in this headspace, considering where we were just a few months ago, where it really did feel like we were on the verge of a real crisis.
00:42:45
Speaker
Yeah, a real actual tear down and rebuild for the first time. Like they were going to have to like, like there was like anyone who's we can get out of their contract, we're getting out of their contract kind of thing. Yeah. That felt like not only a real possibility, but the prudent course of action, which is crazy to think about. Right. And now I think there's probably a bunch of guys that are.
00:43:08
Speaker
you know, that at least forced really tough conversations. Top of that list is, I think, Rusnak really, I would have guessed a couple months ago that Rusnak was near the top of the list of like, I just don't know that we can afford to have this guy taking up a DP spot. And now I think it's like, you know, like we said, there's a discussion to be had there at the very least.
00:43:31
Speaker
Uh, so we'll see, but anyway, uh, I guess that that's kind of a wrap on the 2023 season. Uh, this is not a normal end of year podcast where I do this big farewell because I don't know when the next time we're going to be talking is because I think our expectation is that we're going to maybe not, we're not going to probably record every week, but my expectation, I think we're going to be doing quite a few podcasts over the, the off season because.
Podcast Independence and Future
00:43:58
Speaker
partly because there's probably going to be a lot to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, I definitely think we'll be, we're not going to be going away for three months. I think it's fair to say. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, and there's rumors that the season may start a little earlier because I don't know. I read today that, that one of the rumors is that they're actually going to break for international dates this year, which I'll believe it when I see it. It would be nice. And also the worst thing to ever happen, I think.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, I guess with that, I wonder if that means like taking an extended break for Copa America. Yeah. That's probably what it means. Every other, every other international break will be right. Yeah. Those players, but they'll take two months off for Copa America, right? At least that's a real tournament, you know? And they'll probably play leagues, maybe they'll play leagues cup during Copa America, which God.
00:44:52
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if I hate that. No, it's better than. If you're going to lose a bunch of players, it's not the worst thing, but. Right. If you're going to lose a bunch of players, play League's Cup and and maybe you in and and like, yeah, League's Cup itself loses some some juice.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah, maybe I do like that, actually. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. See, I knew you'd get on board. All right. Well, that's the podcast. Thank you to our sponsors, Full Pull Wines, Watson's Counter, and of course, Sounder at Heart subscribers. I will give a little bit of a plug. We figured out how to do gift subscriptions. So if you have a person in your life
00:45:37
Speaker
you think would really enjoy a Sounder at Heart subscription. We have those available. Just go to our website. There's a shop button near the top. And if you click on that, it will take you to a page that has a whole bunch of links. But two very prominent ones are for a gift subscription to become a backer and a gift subscription to become a supporter, I think is the name of that tier. And that's the one that comes with Discord access and you can
00:46:07
Speaker
start playing around with our mailbag episode and all those kinds of things. So if you want to do that, highly encouraged.
00:46:18
Speaker
We also have affiliate links, so if you're going to someplace like MLS store or I think even like SeatGeek, a few other places, you can get... We can't give you a discount, but we will get a cut of anything you buy if you use our link. It's basically giving us money for you doing nothing extra, which is pretty cool, I think.
00:46:41
Speaker
I agree. I think that's very cool. Giving us money is cool, I think. But anyway, thanks to everyone who's done this. I will do a little mini sign-off, a broad sign-off. This has been an amazing experience for me to sort of guide us through the process of taking Sounder Heart independent. Aaron and Lickett have been massively supportive. Everyone over at Sounder Heart has been really supportive. So it's been really gratifying to see this transition happen.
00:47:10
Speaker
And especially when I see sort of the upheaval going on in the media space outside of Sounder Heart, it's very heartening to feel like, oh yeah, I'm no longer affected by this, or at least directly impacted by it. But anyway, that's a long way of saying, I'm Jeremiah O'Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lick It. This is No Sadietes. Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:48:32
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!