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Late nights, Labor & Leadership: Episode 68
73 Plays4 days ago
Last-minute bookings? Labor Challanges? You're not alone. In this episode, Nate & Kyle talk tents when it comes to managing workforce and dealing with labor companies.
This episode is brought to you by Anchor Clear Span Tents & Structures, learn more at www.anchorinc.com.
PS, if you want to join ARA and you tell them you heard about it from Nate and Kyle, you'll get 25% off your membership! https://ararental.org/join-ARA/promo/Podcast25
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Updates
00:00:01
Speaker
All right, we are back. Another episode of Under the Vinyl, a random management media podcast. I have to take the intro today because Nate is just waking up.
00:00:14
Speaker
It's 10, 11 in the morning.
00:00:18
Speaker
all right we are back another episode of under the vinyl a ran management media podcast i have to take the intro today because nate is just waking up it's ten eleven in the morning but I am you one flight on site on location of a job site and I am sitting in an RV ready to go home after five days.
NASCAR Weekend and Childhood Dreams
00:00:38
Speaker
Hey, don't act like you didn't have a great weekend. it was ah It was a good weekend, but it it rained a lot. We're at the NASCAR race in Nashville. it rained a lot. um So Friday night, they didn't finish the race until 1 a.m.
00:00:50
Speaker
So after, we had to go out and take out ah take out some divider walls on pit lane suites. And so we didn't get... I think I get hit the bed about 1.30. um And then ah Saturday, same thing. ah Rain, but they got done a little early. and then last night, got done around 2 a.m. So...
00:01:07
Speaker
To say the least, i am ready to get out of here. Everything was good. Good race, good time. Ready to go home. Well, that's good. ah Did I see you met someone pretty cool the other day?
00:01:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Actually, childhood dream came true. I was ah doing my morning rounds, checking all my tents in the morning, and I ran into Dale Earnhardt Jr. And so me and him had a little 10-minute conversation.
00:01:34
Speaker
um Just kind of asked him a few questions, and um yeah, he was willing to sit there and talk with me, and it was pretty cool. It was awesome. That's awesome.
00:01:44
Speaker
I was fangirling, though. I told my wife. and She said, how was it? And I said, I was shaking. And ah I don't usually fangirl like that, but that's my one person that I like wanted to meet that ah that was awesome. so Yeah.
00:01:57
Speaker
And look what brought you to them. Freaking tents. Tents, man. Tents bring everybody together, apparently. Oh, the places they'll take you. but Yeah, no kidding.
Sponsorship Highlights for Anchor Tents
00:02:07
Speaker
this episode of under the vinyl is brought to you by anchor tents and clear spans a fifth-generation family-owned company making plans and clear-span structures right here in the usa anchor isn't just about selling the best products on the market they share decades of experience and stand beside you as you grow your business anchors craftsmanship and engineering give you a piece of mind and will allow you to use the equipment for years to come season after season
00:02:28
Speaker
For the next generation of rental owners and installers, Anchor aims to not just be your supplier, but a trusted partner helping guide you into the right products to grow your business. Call to be connected to your sales rep today, 1-800-544-4445 or visit their website at anchorinc.com.
Rental Revenue Growth Skepticism
00:02:44
Speaker
So obviously it's hard for you and I to get together this time of year, so we don't have a guest this week, it's just you and me. So we got some quick topics we can talk about, just some stuff happening. So, you know, I still think everyone's a liar, Nate, but Apparently, ara has revised its forecast and they're saying rental revenue is projected to grow 8% this year. What do you think of that?
00:03:07
Speaker
I think it's tough. I don't i don't i don't really – think eight – I would usually say that eight is probably ah not too too big of a number. I feel like eight is currently too big of a number just with the trends I think that we see as boots on the ground. Yeah.
00:03:22
Speaker
um I think that it depends which market you're in, too. Are you in equipment rental? Are you in construction? Are you in event rental revenue? So our side.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah. OK, so especially event side. Man, I don't know. i I think it could have a potential. i think the again, this goes back to the last minute stuff. I think there's going to be so many last minute stuff. It's hard to project it.
00:03:46
Speaker
I think that you could probably say that it could be 8%, and it may end up very well being there, but right now it just doesn't feel that way. So by the end of the year, I think it could it could get there, but everything's going to so last minute.
Last-Minute Bookings and Industry Challenges
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like some markets in the country are hot still. Like Darren says Houston's hot. I'm hearing some people down south still saying saying things are hot. I think the northeast is cooling off. um I know you're seeing some cool off as well. But, you know, this last-minute stuff, we continue to talk about it, and I don't i don't know how we can –
00:04:19
Speaker
get it back to where, you know, people start booking things. Is it the planner's fault? Is it the client's fault? Whose fault is it that we're getting so last minute at this point? And I can't put my finger on it really either. I think it, I mean, at the end of the day, I feel like the the the planner is going to do what the client wants to do, right? So for instance, I think I mentioned it before. i got a job ah three weeks ago, an inquiry came in or two weeks ago, an inquiry came in um and it's for one out West. And I thought it was kind of a joke at first because of what they wanted and everything.
00:04:51
Speaker
Um, and ended up talking with the planner back and forth, back and forth and finally kind of put the hammer down that, Hey, we're within a month here. Uh, I need to deposit and it's a really decent sized job. Um, they were willing to do it and secured it, but it, the, the magnitude of the job, the size of the job, like it's not,
00:05:09
Speaker
It's not really the size. I guess it's the complexity of the job. It's pretty wild. So to book something like that at the last minute, I was just in my mind, it's like, what was your alternative plan? Where were you? What was your solution if I said no?
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah. And well, not you in like just to begin with, what was your plan to start? Like, what did you guys what were you planning to do to start before you came to me? You know what? Let's not blame the planners, honestly.
00:05:34
Speaker
At some point. We got to blame the rental companies. yeah And why is that? Because we're all guilty of we'll bail people out. we They know they're going to find someone to do the job.
00:05:46
Speaker
Because there is just yeah everybody's a yes man or they want to do it at that that location to say they've done it. um The funny thing is about this one is I thought, um you know, was something random.
00:05:58
Speaker
And um it ended up being i asked them, I said, how did because I've never heard of this planner and they're out of ah Mexico. I said, how did you end up hearing about us and what brought you to us? And come to find out, I did the the the the father of the bride's sister's wedding ah before. And I totally wouldn't have put two and two together. But...
00:06:23
Speaker
Still, I would have assumed that something would have came together quicker than that. So, yeah, I mean, we are. Yes, man, and we make it happen. But also it's like, yeah, maybe at the last minute. But right now, you know, you're going to take that last minute work if you want to get that revenue up to 8 percent. I mean, i think that um I think that we just we have to jump on it and it is
Labor Challenges in the Post-COVID Era
00:06:41
Speaker
what it is. And the biggest issue is going to be mentally preparing our our workers and just everybody that things are going to be last minute.
00:06:50
Speaker
This is kind of the way that things are going. We have to make a mental shift. And I know that not everybody's going to enjoy that. Not everybody's going love it, but this is what we have to do. and And it's not like, this is not what we have to do to stay business, but this is what we need to do if we want to increase revenue and things like that. And I think getting everybody together and getting them on board with that and talking about it as a company, as a whole, to explain that is a lot better than just saying,
00:07:15
Speaker
Hey, we got this job in two weeks. It's got to go prep it, get it ready. And they've already got stuff that they've been working on for a month that they've known about that has already been ahead of them. So now you got to put something in the middle, whether that be cleaning, prepping, getting it together.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yeah. i Speaking of like dealing with the crews, I've worked really hard on trying to make this not a, we're done at 10 o'clock every night kind of thing. Like if my guys work past 530, it's a rarity at this point.
00:07:43
Speaker
But then last week, you know, we got back at 515 and I was like, you know, our day tomorrow is going so much better if we all unload. Let's unload all the trucks, just have everything empty for the morning. It'll make it everything so much easier. And the looks I was getting, it was like I was asking them to give me their firstborn child.
00:08:02
Speaker
Like you've never done it before. Yeah. Well, and it's COVID did this, you know, the COVID years were great. And they all forget about the pre-COVID where, you know, we were finishing at 7, 8 o'clock every single night.
00:08:15
Speaker
yeah And it was a much different time. And now when you ask them to, I think everyone left here at 6.05. So they had to work 35 extra minutes, not the end of the world. but No, I ran into this too last week. So I'm with you.
00:08:28
Speaker
yeah Like they get they get in this mindset like, all right, I know I'm home by 5.30 every day. Life is good. And then you ask him to do something and it's like pulling teeth. I was so mad when I started getting attitude, I just left. I was like, you know what?
00:08:41
Speaker
Screw it. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. Just, well, I'll deal with myself, which is also the problem. Yeah. Yeah. And so I had that problem last week. So Thursday we were trying to finish this job and we were trying to finish strong and it was, it was nine, yeah about nine 30, nine o'clock.
00:08:56
Speaker
And um one of my guys came up and said, hey, what do we have left to do? And I said, well, we got all this furniture and we got a couple more tents and we can get out of here. And he's like, we got to do all that tonight. And I said, look, man, I don't want to be here just as much as you don't want to be here.
00:09:10
Speaker
Well, then he starts going off. I've got to go home because I don't want to. My dog and this. And I'm like, dude, look, I have three kids and a wife at home that's recovering from cancer and has has ah has something to do for a treatment this week as well. Well, I'm gone and I'm not there. And I can guarantee you that I don't want to work out here till 930 and I don't want to be here for five days either. But if we can get this done together. Well, we ended up.
00:09:34
Speaker
He blew up. what So I ended up calling Jonathan and we played good cop, bad cop there. that said, Jonathan, you might want to come over here so Tony doesn't quit. And so we, we ended up working it out and, you know, it we got it all done. And, and at the end of it, he, he walked up to me and said, Nate, you know, I, or texted me, Nate, I apologize. And I apologize back to him. Just, you know, it's heated the moment right now. And,
00:09:58
Speaker
You know, people did get used to, my guys got used to, you know, maybe four years ago, they were working till, there were times where they were till 11 o'clock midnight on some stuff. But we finally ironed it out to where we've got enough people in the Nashville office, especially, that we can kind of schedule people as they need to be and they don't have to work these extremely late hours. So they got used to not working all these late hours. And the minute they have to work late now, it's like,
00:10:24
Speaker
what the hell is going on? The world's coming to you and I, and I hate it for him, but listen, if i'm going to be out there with you and we're doing it and I'm doing it with you, I hear you i expect you to be here too. You know what i mean? So yeah, if I was sitting with my feet up on the couch at home, that's one thing. I totally agree with Different story. And I mean, we're all yeah out here together.
00:10:41
Speaker
Right, and we're all going to go home late, and we're all going to come back in early. Same thing. um But, you know, yeah, and but then it goes back to the warehouse, people in the warehouse. You know, we had to have a couple of guys come in that night too or that morning too early and on offload to help get everything offloaded so that these guys could get right back out early in the morning. And, i mean, it's a change for everybody. But, again, I think it's something we have to learn to adapt to and get back to a little bit. This is – I don't want the rental industry to go back the way that it was before to where it is just – absolutely miserable and a grind um because you're working around the clock hours. There's going to be weeks where it is that way.
00:11:17
Speaker
But if there's going to be weeks. And we all know, like it depending on where you are, this might only be an eight-month out-of-the-year business for and you. know the other the other months, you're off. So it's like, we've got to make the money while we can. We've got to do what we what we can to grow the business in those those eight months. And um you know for other people, it's year-round business. It just depends where you are. Yeah.
00:11:42
Speaker
So obviously still big issue on this topic as well is labor. Are you guys still actively hiring? What are you guys doing? Are you switching mainly to labor companies? I know you use them a lot.
00:11:54
Speaker
We are actively hiring every single day. Um, I mean, if we could hire, if we could hire 10 people tomorrow full time that want to work, want to travel, or just want to have the drive, we would do that. Um, I mean, we use the labor companies because we have to, right?
00:12:11
Speaker
um And i you know we've looked at new things just as much as everybody else is just like hiring people from around the country and and then and the travel things. And it's not even so much anymore of like, hey, you're in Chattanooga.
00:12:25
Speaker
and so it's hard to find labor. It's just labor in general, man. i don't i don't I really don't know what it is. And I'm hoping that, again, with this safe tending and everything, Showing that it's more of a trade and pushing the trade that will get more people. But like, you know, we're in a good spot to where I've hired ah office people and admin people. I've got a new sales guy. Funny story. New sales guy started last week. First day on the job, he's out putting up tents. And all last week, he was working till nine o'clock with me, putting up tents all week long. And he had the best attitude about it, but it's the best way to learn.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, that I told him, I was like, man, it's not usually like this. I apologize, but it's a good way for you to learn real fast. um so But finding the physical labor that's going to travel, that's i mean it's still an issue. And i don't know i'm I don't know how to solve it because how many more times can you spend $200, $300 on ads on...
00:13:23
Speaker
you know, whatever hiring website you're getting and you're not getting anything quality wise back.
Effective Labor Management Strategies
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's a tough situation. And then
00:13:35
Speaker
i called you or I texted you about, a foot I used a labor company, right? I have one issue with them. Why am I paying travel both ways when they're also charging the next guy travel both ways?
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I... They in New Jersey, and they were flying to you. They're billing you to fly from New Jersey to Nashville right now. And I'm also paying for them to fly from New Jersey to Nashville.
00:13:59
Speaker
There has to be a home base, I feel like. and But that's the thing. These labor companies make their own rules, man. It's a wild, wild west. yeah Well, what kills me is I hired them. They're based out of ah Maryland, whatever. There's a bunch them down there, so I'm not calling anyone out.
00:14:14
Speaker
Well, it on the estimate, it had... ah Travel fee, right? Of X amount of dollars. Well, so I assume that was for them to drive from Maryland to New Jersey, spend the three days here, whatever. Well, then I get the final invoice.
00:14:26
Speaker
Got plane tickets on it. And now there's plane tickets. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Shouldn't you be upfront about that and say, we think that this is what your airfare is going to cost you? Well, it's no different than when we send out a freight quote, like, you know, our Rennie who's in sales for us at the end of her freight quote, it says that a freight will be finalized two weeks before the event. Right. Well, that' fine. That's two weeks.
00:14:48
Speaker
Right. But that's what saying. It should be something in there that says, Hey, this will be finalized or whatever that is. And whatever that looks like. Now I agree. You have to charge something as far as like, it's like no different than a delivery and pickup fee. Right. That's how I equated it to for you.
00:15:03
Speaker
I think there has to be a home base charge though. Like, If you're, if your company is based in Maryland, then you charge from Maryland to here, right? Maryland. what if this Hawaii and had to come to New Jersey or Alaska, just throwing it out there.
00:15:16
Speaker
Right. And that would be, i mean, substantial. and you would have to pay that is from what it sounds like, but that's i'm saying. Regardless. Everything should be based, if your company is based in Maryland, you should be basing everything flying out of, in and out of Maryland. I don't care if your guys are in Guatemala. I don't care if they're in Washington, wherever they are, right? They, you, you gotta charge the fee on based on where your company is. I just, I don't agree with that either. And then. If they paid one way, I wouldn't complain. Cause I, the fact that when I pay two ways, that means the next guy's also paying two ways.
00:15:49
Speaker
So now they're double dipping. Right. Right. and that's what I was going to say. so the next guy. So if they're flying from from Maryland to, i don't know, New York, wherever. Right. Then they should base it on flying back to Maryland and then from Maryland to Washington or Washington, to California or whatever that is. They they're making that money there no matter what. theyre They are double dipping.
00:16:07
Speaker
I would 100 percent agree with you. But that's where a lot of these labor companies um are winning and people are afraid to speak up on them. Yeah. They're throwing in extra charges at the end of the day. And there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff on there that if you don't pay attention to your bills and look at your bills and ask for receipts, itemized receipts, um there's things that are screwed up. I know that I've missed on on our bills sometimes. um And now that we have accounting looking at everything, You know, she catches everything and she doesn't she's not afraid to holler back him and say something. There's also times where you might not hear from the labor company for two months on a bill and they ask you to pay everything up front. It's like a giant number. And you're like, oh wait a minute. What happened here? um You know, and that happens when.
00:16:56
Speaker
You know, the guy on site, like say I'm on site a project manager is on site and I forget about it and accounting doesn't remember it. And then all sudden you get this bill for $200,000 and it's like, why was I not getting this up front? So, yeah, I think that there's a lot of things.
00:17:11
Speaker
Don't get wrong. easy We need them. They are great to work with. I just did like the surprise at the end. there's And I feel like there's always a surprise, and which is really hard because it's hard to quote. um You know, when I go to quote stuff, I'm basing it off of, I typically ask them, I said, hey, send me a quote, an itemized quote for this labor so that I can charge adequately. And then we do not veer from this this price right here.
00:17:38
Speaker
unless I tell you or there's changes or anything else. But like, this is, if if you're basing this on 10 hours a day, then if you need to work any overtime at all whatsoever, you tell me that you need to work the overtime. You don't just work the overtime. um Or if I tell you, Hey, we need to make this change that change. Then we do that.
00:17:54
Speaker
But only if I give you the, okay, because we're basing it off of that number. And that's where, that's where they win a lot is they just do the things. And what what you got to remember too, is if you have a,
00:18:06
Speaker
if they If you're supplementing their guys with your guys, you know, mixing their guys in, you got to make sure that your project manager says, hey, yeah, we're we're we're knocking off after 10 hours or your guy works 10 hours and the labor companies or your guys work 14 hours, the labor company stops at 10. You know, so making sure that you do those different things is going to save your ass at the end of the day. Yeah.
Union Labor Complications
00:18:31
Speaker
Well, that whole thing was a disaster. Disaster is the wrong word. It had nothing to do with the labor company of why I had a disaster with them. It was the customer for the job I was bringing them in for. but Well, and in union labor, right?
00:18:43
Speaker
Well, yeah. said i had a For the listeners, i had ah I was bringing a labor company to do a job for me, and the day before they were supposed to get here to do the job, ah the client calls me and goes, oh, by the way, you have to use all union stagehands to do this job now. so Which is becoming more and more um relevant, it feels like, especially with all this FIFA work. and so that's That's what I guess it's come to find out. FIFA is the one who started all this.
00:19:07
Speaker
But yeah, whatever. yeah's It's becoming a mess. um You want to touch on AI a little bit for just a little bit of technology before we set off here?
Hiring Challenges in the Industry
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah. what Well, hey, I got this question for you.
00:19:19
Speaker
What do you think is the hardest position to fill, Nate? Project manager, great installer, or a customer who actually listens and reads what you tell them you were going to do? Great installer. Yeah, I agree.
00:19:33
Speaker
Project manager, I feel, is becoming an easier and easier um job role to fill. Now, with that being said, finding the right one for the right job and the quality, you know, you have to have somebody that's willing to step up and have the initiative and take initiative and have the drive. um If you don't have the drive or you're not following schedules um or just, you know, just kind of veering off on what you want to do, then obviously you're not going to be the most successful.
00:20:02
Speaker
um efficient project manager for the team. yeah So I think finding the project managers are easy. It's just a matter of getting the getting them locked into what you're doing. and We've got some good ones now, so I'm not so much worried there. And I think going back to your labor labor questions, that helps that'll help save a lot of money on the labor. But um yeah, the installer, I'm running into that a little bit right now, just you know trying to move guys up through the ranks and and kind of push people to move up.
00:20:33
Speaker
And it's tough because I've got a couple guys that have been there for long periods of time, and they're just comfortable where they're at. They don't want to grow past they're They don't want to boss people around. They don't want to be responsible.
00:20:46
Speaker
They're great their job. I got a bunch of those. They're great at job, but makes me so mad because I know that they could be more, but I can't want it for them more than they do. And then – Problem is, how am I supposed to give you a raise if you don't want to you don't want to move past that?
00:21:00
Speaker
They think that just because they're there for a year, a year, a year, and now becomes... They deserve it. That they deserve it. But at some point, you got to look back. And we have a book that outlines...
00:21:11
Speaker
the different stages of your your career at chattelagotent right and this is where you got to be to know this this is the second stage this is where you got to be to know this and this is your pay that goes with it right but a lot of those guys just expect to give pay raises but not to have to go to that next level and then what are you supposed to do you have to tell them oh okay well you're not getting any more money and i know you've been here for 15 years and you've done a lot for me but Good luck.
00:21:40
Speaker
look We're not saying that. It sounds horrible. Learn something. Yeah. But we're as an industry, this is what we do. Going back to the saying, yes, we just. We we're so we are scared of our employees.
00:21:52
Speaker
We work around We work around them. We work around them and what they want to do.
Frustrations with Industry Adaptation
00:21:57
Speaker
Every other industry has the hire fast, fire fast mentality. We can't because we know there's not a guy standing at the door to hire next.
00:22:03
Speaker
So you're like, I'll tolerate this guy. There is, but what's the difference in the quality? That's problem. You know, there's there's and there's a guy out there, but what are you going to get out of that? And God almighty, half the freaking people you go to hire nowadays don't even have a driver's license, have never driven a freaking car before.
00:22:22
Speaker
Or can't pass a drug test. Well, that's that. But that just baffles me. It's like, how have you never had a driver's license and you're 30, 40 years old? I haven't really needed it. What the hell have you been doing with your life? like How do you get from point A to point B?
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, I don't... Alright, we... Nice. Here we go. Industry hill you're willing to die on.
00:22:47
Speaker
Oh. A hill I'm willing to die on. Man, I'm...
00:22:56
Speaker
Adaptive change. There's ah adapting and change in this industry is so slow. It eventually happens over time. But how we get there is for somebody like me, who's not a very patient person and loves to get things moving. And and when I need it, I want it.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I want to get it done. And I want to move on. I want to check my list. Check my boxes. Because I know there's going to be another problem. um I usually get a lot of stuff that kind of piles. And and it doesn't get done quick enough.
Defending Pole Tents and Closing Remarks
00:23:27
Speaker
And so, yeah. adapt ah Being adaptive and more. We're fast-paced in a lot of things in this industry. But we're not fast-paced in change at all whatsoever.
00:23:37
Speaker
I'm willing to die on pole tents. Make you a ton of money, man. I don't care what you all say.
00:23:45
Speaker
You're crazy. i'll die I will die on that hill. I'll be the last pole tank company in the country if I have to be. Yeah. Well, a yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yep. Anyways. It's all got. All right. We've bantered enough. 23 minutes. Nate, closing thoughts? Well, it's pouring down rain. The skies are dark.
00:24:10
Speaker
It's going fun for getting all this stuff down this week. we got a big I've got a big next couple, three weeks still. So get me to July, and we'll be okay.
00:24:21
Speaker
And I feel like I say that every year, so here we are. i was talking to Devin. I'm not going to pronounce his last name because I'm going to say it wrong from amazing. And he said, oh, I only have one more week. And I was like, yeah, that's something a tent guy says until they're dead.
00:24:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, let's that's the damn truth. No, one day at a time, one day at a time. But yeah, anyways. All right. Great seeing you. That's been another episode of Under the Vinyl, a Randall Management Media podcast.