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Tent Talk with Anchor Industries: Episode 66
111 Plays21 days ago
Codes? New structures? Lets talk hot topics with a tenting industry veteran — Anchor Industries Inc. Director of Clear Span Business and Product Development Mike Crews!
This episode is brought to you by Anchor Clear Span Tents & Structures, learn more at www.anchorinc.com.
PS, if you want to join ARA and you tell them you heard about it from Nate and Kyle, you'll get 25% off your membership! https://ararental.org/join-ARA/promo/Podcast25
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm a 10-raddle man. I'm working on all day. Getting mistakes in the ground no matter what they say. From sunrise to the night, make sure everything's right.
00:00:14
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a 10-raddle man.
Introduction of 'Under the Vinyl' and guest Mike Cruz
00:00:18
Speaker
Back to another episode of Under the Vinyl, a Randall Management Media Podcast. We'll go ahead and jump right in here. We've got a real good guest on today, an industry veteran. We're going to talk a little bit about some hot topics going on in the industry with some codes, as well as ah a new a structure that has come out, a couple of new structures that have come out that we really love and that people don't know quite a bit about. So we'll jump into that. But without further ado, I'd like to introduce Mike Cruz. Mike, how you doing, buddy?
Relocation to Nashville and industry reintegration
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm doing great, guys. How you guys doing? Great, it's great to have you on It's highly important the things you guys are doing and talking about here. just really really really really does have meaning and impact out here. and I really appreciate you guys what you guys are doing. It's it's important for our industry. and it's ah you know From me being an older guy from you know way back in the day, you know I've been going to you know been involved in you know different areas of of a you know with organizations, IFAI and ARA and all the things. and you'll continuing on those things and having guys like you being involved with this making this thing a safer and better you know better industry is just it's just it's it's good for the industry well it's also good for the industry to keep people like you around so we're glad that you decided to jump right back into this uh this craziness with us and um you know jump into some good topics here today and just kind of go over some things but um what have you been uh what have you been doing mike where you been
00:01:38
Speaker
Well, so, you know, it's been interesting the last, ah you know, last couple of years. So you you guys, just a little bit about me, you know, I was ah born and raised in here in Evansville, Indiana, and that's where I'm at actually at this week. I'm at i'm at anchor at the factory. And for the last 15 years, I've been living down in Hollywood, Florida, and just recently moved to Nashville, Tennessee to get a little closer to the kids and grandkids and family and work and, know,
00:02:04
Speaker
And I was just, honestly, I was a little bit done with South Florida. was Eight months of summer was enough for me. There there there are no breaks. There are no cold fronts that come through. None of that stuff happens. So it's been ah it's been really exciting over the last couple months getting back in here and getting closer to the family and being closer to work up here. So, yeah, everything's been everything's everything's been good. Busy. Everything's picking up again as well.
Challenges of custom tent projects
00:02:28
Speaker
That's awesome. Have you guys had any cool installs that you've been that you've sold recently that you've been on? Yeah, you know, i just i was ah I just went up to Long Island and traveled with a couple of our outside reps. You guys know them probably pretty well, Danny Dalton and Mike Fenton. And we had a an 18-meter by 27-meter that was built and designed for a... ah an outdoor deck that we had to crane crane everything in. even Even the equipment from the ground up there just to get it put together had to be craned in. There was no way to get the equipment up there. So those are always fun to get out and do those kind of jobs. Everybody gets tired of the standard just you know slugging up the tent and down it comes. But yeah, it's kind of it's kind of fun when you get a custom job and you get out of the norm a little bit. So that that that was a fun project.
Sponsorship by Anchor Tents and Clear Spans
00:03:12
Speaker
This episode of Under the Vinyl is brought to you by Anker Tents and Clear Spans, a fifth generation family owned company making tents and clear span structures right here in the USA. Anker isn't just about selling the best products on the market. They share decades of experience and stand beside you as you grow your business. Anker's craftsmanship and engineering give you a peace of mind and will allow you to use the equipment for years to come, season after season.
00:03:33
Speaker
For the next generation of rental owners and installers, Anchor aims to not just be your supplier, but a trusted partner helping guide you into the right products to grow your business. Call to be connected to your sales rep today, 1-800-544-4445, or visit their website at anchorinc.com.
00:03:49
Speaker
ah Mike, what is your current role over there at Anchor?
Role in ClearSpan division and market segments
00:03:52
Speaker
So I take care of basically the clear span division for Anchor Industries, and then i play ah yeah I've been playing a little bit of a role here yeah over the last couple of years in our ah in our warehousing side of business. That's been a big, you know kind of a kind of a thing that we've been putting quite a bit of time on. We see kind of where the market space is going. So I've been you know bouncing back and forth between those two things. But you know then then the last this probably this last six months or so, I've really put put put some effort back into the ClearSpan side of of our business. And there's a lot of lot of places go out there and put up ClearSpan and Some of it long term, some of it's just the short term in the daily rental stuff. But there is a difference between those two and and and there and there needs to be focus. you know They're not just the the same type of ah products going out there. They look the same. They look like a duck, quack like a duck, walk like a duck, but they're not ducks. So they are different.
00:04:47
Speaker
And we're going to jump into some of those ones here
Evolution of sales and engineering since 1990
00:04:49
Speaker
coming up. But just give us a little bit about how um how that conversation of sales has just changed over the last decade that you've seen. You know, it is really interesting. I mean, i just I'll just go way back. you know i started I started at Anchor Industries and in 1990 and you know it it it was really interesting. I mean, we were selling, i mean, we we had, at that time, 60 White Century was out. I mean, it was, you know, things structure was was around, but you know,
00:05:16
Speaker
it it also was a deal where I literally would get a call from a customer. I would take down the notes of what he wanted. I would write it up and give it to our secretary and she would mail the quote to the client.
00:05:29
Speaker
And then he would call back and say, yeah, i've I've looked over your quote and, and, and it's good to go. And that's obviously, you know, change, you know over time, you know, to the, to to today, today's date where, you know, if you can't,
00:05:42
Speaker
you're on the phone with them. If you don't have an answer in four seconds, it's it's it's like, you know what's going on? What's taking so long to get this done? And I think, you know, the the other side of it is that, you know, in in today's world, a lot of great companies out there, you know, written tents and buying tents and and they're edgy. they're It's because of this this type of podcast and the or the other organization that we've done, we've become a much better industry. So I think the sales end of it from my standpoint has been, we've had to be educated.
00:06:10
Speaker
We used to be able to just get by with, oh yeah, it's 60 wide and near the now the engineering behind it and whether it's whether it's temporary engineering or long-term engineering, you know theres it's ah it's ah it's a different kind of sales approach right now.
00:06:23
Speaker
Do you feel like the expectations are different then? Are they higher or lower? What are we at? You know, I think that the expectations are are are are higher ah today. they you know I think back in the earlier days when I was doing it, you know and ah and a lot of companies still do this. Obviously, if there's a mistake on site, you know, you're tent guys, you're going figure it out. That's that's kind of what what what we do. But in you in today's world, I think there's just there's so much more that goes into the sale before the sale.
Importance of personal relationships in sales
00:06:52
Speaker
versus what it used to be. It was just, hey, just throw in another couple of 20-foot mids for 40-foot party tent or pole tent. And you today there's just a lot of discussion about engineering and how it's going to be engineered and the permitting process. So I think that the education piece of it from from our world is different. And I you i also think that You know, the the the folks are different. You know there are some I'm a I'm the last year of a baby boomer. So, you know, I'm ah um a relationship. I want to get on the phone and talk and, you know, walk through and make sure you understand everything that you're getting with this. And we have some folks out there that, you know, today, if they could just add a 30 meter by 60 meter to the cart, they would do it in the way it would go.
00:07:29
Speaker
So that's that's been a little different, I think. Yeah, and I think there's a time and a place for that. I think that ah building those relationships as a salesman myself, I mean, building those relationships in general and shaking somebody's hand and seeing them face to face is great. And we've talked about this a lot where I don't feel like people want to see you as much anymore, but they still want to know you're there.
00:07:46
Speaker
And to me, I feel like I still want to make an appearance. It just might not be as often, but. you know it is great when you know we're on the fly, we don't have to bother you, and we can jump right in and and see what that pricing is and grab it. or you know you know That way we don't feel like we're burdening the salesperson.
00:08:03
Speaker
Right. Right. I think the relationship piece of it is still, you know, a vital part of it. And and i and I say that because, you know, if if a if if there's somebody out there and they're spending, you know, just just pick a number and throw it out there. Just say they're spending 50 grand a year with your company.
00:08:17
Speaker
They have somewhat of an intimate relationship with somebody in the sales department. you know, you're not just I mean, they've got somebody they know, somebody they're trying to reach out to, somebody they're going to want to be contacting. So it's not just this, you know, hey, we can just do everything online and we can just get it from YouTube videos and all that kind of stuff. In this industry, there's i don't think that ever goes away, you know, and we we we shouldn't let it go away. I think it's important as manufacturers that we we stay as engaged. And and you you you literally have to with today's engineering and the way it's always changing and to be up to speed, you've just got to be on top of that.
00:08:49
Speaker
Correct. And I feel like it says a lot about what manufacturer you choose early on by building those relationships, you know? Yeah, no question. I mean, it's we always talk about it here. It's kind of a joke. I mean, and i I don't think that it really isn't a joke at the end of the day. But, you know, when you do your due diligence and you're making that decision on, you know, who you're going partner with, it's pretty important, man, because it's it's it's a marriage, you know, and divorce is important.
00:09:12
Speaker
Ugly and hard and nasty and expensive. And it isn't this it is in this industry as well. So it's really important that you get out there up front and do your homework and find somebody that's going to be work with you that has the education you know to get you going the right way. you know That's what we're's what we do as salesmen. you know We're always, you know we certainly will sell you anything that you want, but we're also there to provide you know a little instruction and you know our our background and you know things we've been you know up against along the way. So that that part doesn't go away, I don't think.
00:09:42
Speaker
which is Which is exactly why we will dive into this new Vixen product. And, you know, I'm biased now because it's in my inventory um and I love it. I think it's a fantastic product that's come to market here, specifically for the four meter leg, the five meter bays and for that profile. So, Mike, tell me what the what the vision behind the whole system was.
Introduction of the VXN product
00:10:04
Speaker
You know, the the the vision behind it was, you know you know, Anchor offers a lot of products, you know, and and that could be structure. It could be the hybrid tents, which are the track systems. you know, the they still have to be guide out. They still keter, you know, and so we were, we've always been at this level where we've been really good from about 15 meter and above and never really a very good entry level 10. And so many of the things that, you know i over as as I'm out dealing with the customers, you know a lot of the things that we come up with here at Anchor, doesn't it's not because I had some great idea about something out there. It's because we're dealing with with with you guys out there and you know what the pain spots are and you know where you're struggling. And yeah we try to listen to those things. And so we bring that back into Anchor. And one of the things that you know, that stood out to me was, you know, these smaller entry-level buildings that you're getting into, and and it goes right back into, you know that customer. Once you once you get married, you' you're married. And for us, we didn't really have a very good viable entry-level product into the ClearSpan line. So, know, we were losing out on a lot of those opportunities. And so I was looking at some of the things that I thought were going to be important and some of the pain spots that I was hearing out there in a four-meter upright on the smaller buildings was a pain spot. You know, anytime you're
00:11:17
Speaker
putting a three meter leg up next to a four meter, your work's just beginning. You know, how are you sealing that, how you're going gutter, stop the water, you know, just a lot of things that this that that that building does. Now, for us, I thought it was important that, you know, we get to this four meter eave height in this ah five me three meter and five meter bay because that's just where the the marketplace was driving us to go. I mean, it just through all the feedback and everything we were getting, that's just kind of where it led us. And so we went into it with knowing that you know we might to get that four meter deep height out to the all the way out to 15 meters.
00:11:53
Speaker
you know We knew we were going to be a slightly bigger profile to make that happen. But you know we still think it was it was the right move. So you know at that at that entry level, stage of of of structure, we're kind of at the higher end of that entry level, but it's it's it's been worth worth the things that we have done to it.
00:12:11
Speaker
And the big thing for me, and like I said, is the four meter leg. I love the four meter leg and the five meter, the five meter base. So just tell us about the install efficiencies that like you have felt that you've seen through, you know, other customers as well as, you know the engineering simplicity of that and just to reduce the hardware complexity. Because I feel like there's a lot of hardware that is like super complex on a lot of structures. And this one is super easy.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, that that's something we really took a hard look at. I mean, literally, yeah if you look at most structures, your main profile, your rafters and your legs are the bigger profile, right? And then your ah usually your gable framing is is a little bit you know smaller, you know the next size profile down because you know it's not quite as, on the on the gable framing piece of it, there's not quite as much engineering material. you know designed necessary for the gable framing so but what we did is we kept it all the same profile so a gable upright is a main upright is a uh is a rafter so it's all the same profiles uh we we we also took this thing to a level with uh the glass system uh to more of a pressure plate system instead of in between the uprights which was you know in my my opinion i'm i'm a rotor guy i've been a rotor guy an anchor guy for a long time but you know it It was an older design and you know the glass in between the uprights because the ah the ah every profile is a slightly different width on on the profile. So that gap was always a little bit different and it was ah it was a nightmare. It was a problem for our customers. So this VXN was just really an opportunity for us to really take a whiteboard and really look at you know all the things that were out there and really try to hit those spots that were go just make it easier for
Design and installation benefits of VXN
00:13:50
Speaker
the installer. I mean, and that, the five meter bay instead of the three meter bay, you just think from the standpoint of loading and unloading and your labor on the site, you know it's less arches, you know it's all the things that go along with that. And the three, that going from to a four meter upright, up
00:14:05
Speaker
to the building that you're connecting to is also another big piece of it. It allows you to not have all the, all the Gaga foo-foo work that you have to do after it's done. It's the building's easy. It's always the Gaga foo-foo that takes forever.
00:14:18
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. um Well, with that, you know, what do you feel like the real world, um you know, benefits for the crew and rental companies for that? You know, I feel like I was talking with somebody the other day um just about, we were talking about the difference in the F3 and the Vixen, right?
00:14:35
Speaker
and We were talking more along the 9-meter Vixen, 30-wide F3, and they were asking me, you know, what do you what do you think about it? And i said, well, what are you what are you looking for in it? And so we're talking a little bit about it, and I feel that you could almost do a Vixen at this point with the simplicity of it as quick as or pretty close to as an F3.
00:14:55
Speaker
So like for a midsize company. Yeah, I wouldn't say I would say. Right. I would say it's pretty close to. And I think, you know, the that that's the other thing, you know just going to taking a step back here and and talking about, you know, the structure, the the the beginning structure, you know, there's You know, it's it's hard to say you're jumping into the structure business and you're going to start out with a 25 meter building.
00:15:16
Speaker
Right. So you've got to start out. You know, most guys are starting out something smaller than that. And, you know, and again, it's it really comes down to, you know, they're you know they're both very, very good products. And from a time standpoint, this it really, really comes down to the. aesthetics and what it looks like and what the customer's wanting for that event. I mean, and we're just continually working on, you know, trying to make things easier and faster. And, you know like with our building, there's just not tons of different bolt sizes. You know, Germany, with all their engineering, there ah they they can be bad about, you know, they make a bolt for every different piece of the tent. And, you know, that bolt works everywhere until you get to the point where you have to have and then you've got the wrong size. Right. So that's that's typically what happens. So we spend a lot of time trying to make like parts and pieces and so that it's just some you know more simplistic when you guys get out on the job. understand And just give us a little background on what on ah what's been like the most popular widths of this product and and applications and just uses.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's it really is just on, you know, mainly in just a special event side, you know and they're just all kinds of uses out there. But I would say probably the nine and twelve. have been you know probably more of the key type products that we've been going out there with right now. And you again, you know at Anchor, we have you know lots of 40 wides. You can pick many, many different options for a 40 wide, but you as a dealer out there, you've got to know your segment, your market segment, what you're doing, where you're trying to go with it. And it could very easily be that the VXN is the wrong product for a job that an F3 would be the know the perfect product for.
00:16:51
Speaker
So we are, know, we're always just looking to try to, you know, through listening to you guys and a lot that feedback comes, you know, and our improvements come from you guys that own the product out there for us. You know, we try to design and, you know, it's really interesting because I, you know, the earlier years when I was working in Evansville up here and we were doing design work on stuff and would have our engineers back there go,
00:17:14
Speaker
you Hey, we've got everything designed. So I'd be out in the field and all a sudden we're running into problems and I'm coming back in there. and They're going to can't be. And then one, well, see the difference is you're working here in perfect CAD where everything's flat and level and always works. And let me show you why it doesn't work out here.
00:17:27
Speaker
So, you know, we, we, we take a lot of those things into consideration and we try to, you know, work out as many, much of that stuff as we can before it gets the, gets the end user or to the dealer out there so that, you know, it's seamless for you guys.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like that's kind of the best way to do it. It's like, you know if you don't if you're not getting the feedback or taking the feedback from the outside, you're always going to be stuck in that computer mind. and it's It's tough. You've got to take the feedback all around from everybody as a whole. i mean Even just the guys installing it out there i mean can give you so much intel.
00:18:00
Speaker
Oh, well, listen, i've I've always said that the best information we get anytime we're designing a product is we should be having a team, you know geographically, you know kind of around the country of different folks that we're interested in having and you know getting their feedback on it. And really, you know from the front end of this thing, you know really from the design work, because yeah you're always in a hurry. you know everybody Every manufacturer is always looking for this next new thing out there, right? And every year somebody wants to come out with something new and if it was easy,
00:18:29
Speaker
we'd have something new and great and designed, you know, every year in this thing. Right. So it's not easy. And, and we, we, we work really hard to try to you know get something that's going to go out there that, you know is not just a one-off. And I feel like there's a lot of great things that are being manufactured and produced by, you know, most of the manufacturers out there, but, you know, they're they're one off, you know, kind of things instead of something that really is what's driving your business, you know, with the you know normal up and down and you know how you, you know, you develop and get better at the product. If you're putting up something different every time you're going out, you know, without some kind of consistency within the product itself, it becomes becomes complicated for you guys out there.
00:19:07
Speaker
Well, and we always say we don't want to reinvent the wheel, right? But at the same time, you know to your point on the new products, you can come out with some crazy new wicked structure every year. And it's i mean that structure may not stick, but this is ah this is a style that is going to stick and is going to be around. And so you're not necessarily reinventing the wheel. You're improving everything, I feel like. And you've made it you made it faster. You made it more made it easier for the smaller guys as well as you know just overall. I mean, at the end of the day,
00:19:36
Speaker
We operate on labor costs, right? and the And any savings that we can have in labor is huge. And for me, I feel like for us jumping into something like that with the five meter spacing, it's already made it faster and more more easy on the on site for everybody. and And the guys love it. And like I said, I've preached about it before on this podcast, but the bolts and everything, just everything being like the same, the pins, and you know it's just it's the simplicity of everything that has really made it for us.
00:20:03
Speaker
and then we have to And then we have to take it to the next level. Obviously, you know you come out with the A-frame, that's the basic building of it, but you know then you've got to have you know a curve you know curve top for the thing. You've got to have shaped ends. You've got to be able to put an octagon in or a hex end on it and a high peak, you know up possibly somewhere down the road. And you know when you're designing this thing, when you're coming out with a design on the front end, you know in order to make sure that that very beginning building is you know, what you want when you start doing all these add-ons to it so that, you know, again, everything is seamless and you say, oh, well, we should have thought about what's going happen on this glass right here when we put this hex end on this thing. You know there's just, you know from beginnings, from start to finish on these things, it's it's it's a little bit of a journey. You know, it takes some time and some forethought. And, you know, I've always been ah a proponent and fan of, you know, when we are designing before we actually introduce is,
00:20:55
Speaker
to handpick, you know, some guys out in the field and are out out in the industry and put it in their hands and let them beat this thing around for a, for a summer, you know, and just come back and tell us what they you know really think. And then, but you know we you know, what, what, what they think and what we could do with that product at that time. But, you know, at the end of the day, you got to get it out there.
00:21:13
Speaker
Right. And so, Oh yeah. you but that's kind of what, that's kind of where we the VXN, but we're moving very quickly towards, you know, all those things that I just said, we've already got, uh, we already got a design on the curve top for it. We've already got the layout for the shaped ends. So that's all in place. We just, it's just somewhat new and we just haven't done any of it yet. Well, and then that, that's smart to get it out there. And, you know, i remember back in the day when I worked at Bryant's and the Aurora first came out and, um,
00:21:37
Speaker
you guys shipped me the Aurora itself and and said, here, use it, go put it up for a month and see how you guys like it, use it and beat it up a little bit. And then, you know, that, that ultimately made me purchase it from you all when I was there. Um, just because we were able to really get our hands on it and utilize the product for a month. And it was a cool, cool way to get it out there. So I think you guys did really good on things like that.
00:21:59
Speaker
I mean, and it has to be something really bad for you to come back and say, hey, we just we just decided we don't want this. I mean, it's it's it's it's a nice ploy. It works. It works really well for both sides, you know, because we wouldn't be putting all the time and effort into it, you know, the to be putting it out there and not think that we were going success with it. But what validates that success is having it in these in the hands of, you know, guys like you to make sure that, you know, we've hit we've hit the mark on this thing.
00:22:24
Speaker
Well, kind of staying on that path of the new product and things and things coming out and what you guys are really
Demand for warehouse products and permanent codes
00:22:29
Speaker
diving into. I know you guys have dived dive deep into this new permanent structure and warehouse applications. And you got a great new product that has been rolled out and you're really getting into it more. And I know this is kind of the way of the future um And it seems like a lot of companies are trying to get more of these long term rentals and things like that. This is not a product that's going to be for everybody. But give us a little background on ah why the warehousing and seminary permanent structure demand has really exploded and what this product is about.
00:22:56
Speaker
You know, i think there's I think there's, you know, a few reasons out there. You know, one of the first reasons for for us to think about, you know, when when we were coming out with this product is obviously we were getting calls on it. I mean, yeah there was a demand out there. So we kind of knew there was a demand. We knew there was a product and, you know, we you know wanted to, you know, try to get involved in this thing. the other side The other thing that we see, you know, in the industry is, you know, there's a lot of acquisitions and mergers and private equity buyouts. And, you know there's,
00:23:26
Speaker
you know there's x amount of product being put out into the special event industry every year. and you know Let's just face it. mean we've been you you You know this by everybody you talk to. It's it's a little it's ah a bit mature. you know It's a bit saturated at times, but I do think that through all this acquisition and mergers and everything, that it does spawn a new round of people coming into the business because it it has to because those people get so focused on the big things that this other these other segments kind of get left behind and it forces you know people into that industry but you know what where we really saw this thing was uh when you start looking at the companies out there like united rental sunbelt uh
00:24:07
Speaker
Will Scott, I mean, those aren't small companies. Those companies have done some late work and some background work to go in and figure out that, hey, there's a demand out there. And that demand is, you know, for, you know, it can be,
00:24:20
Speaker
you know, sporting big sport event, it could be immigration, it could be these data centers that are coming out, you know, all this stuff is just coming on. And what really was driving this thing is that in order to go out for those longer term projects, we as a company always live in this temporary code world and these products were demanding permanent code.
00:24:39
Speaker
And so that's kind of was the beginning piece of it to say, OK, well, if we're going to do this, we've got to be able to separate the temporary from the permanent. And what's that look like?
00:24:49
Speaker
Because when you start looking at that that that warehouse space out there and you compare it to the the special event space that we live in right now,
00:25:00
Speaker
you know I don't know what the real number is, but it's got to be tenfold, maybe a hundredfold. I don't know what it is. but you know So what was the complicated part for us and in the beginning of this was, you know where do we fit in this big space? you know that's That's maybe most complicated thing is yeah know we know we've got a great product. We know it's engineered.
00:25:20
Speaker
long for for long term use, which means it has the permanent engineering behind it. But you know, where where do we go with it? Because there's ah there's a lot of people in this space out there. So that that that's taken us a minute to kind of figure that out a little bit.
00:25:33
Speaker
Well, and and walking through the new warehouse product that you do have, and you got it in your yard out back there, right? You guys utilize it as as a company, correct? Yeah, yeah. That, I mean, that was that that was one of the first things we did. You know, we we went down this path about, it was before COVID and we really tried to set up something separate from Anchor, you know, from the normal stuff that we did at Anchor and, you know, try to put some focus on it and, you know, got a guy and he was out knocking on doors. And I mean, it it it it it developed us along a little bit, but it didn't really get us to where, you know, we needed to get until, you know, here in the just probably the last, I'd say three years.
00:26:12
Speaker
we really stepped into this thing and said, hey, you know what, we do have the product. And we kind of went through the same thing with this warehouse product because it was a German designed product that we were looking at. And because of that, you know, there were just a lot of pieces and parts that were different and stuff. So we, the very first thing we did is we came in and basically just did a ah new, a complete redesign ah on the building. I mean, that's not a different profile or anything like that, but just how things go together and, you know, and making things a little bit more interchangeable between the sizes of buildings. So that if you're putting up a 25, well, the 20 gets it this way, the 25 gets it this way. So that took a little while to get up and going. But, you know once we got that going and got this thing to where it is right now, we're we're having we're having a lot of success with this thing. we're We're getting there. There is a huge demand for this out there and how you find and where you find yourself in this marketplace is is the hard part. That's you knowll getting there.
00:27:06
Speaker
Well, and I think the thing about this product, it's done
Engineering and safety standards for warehouses
00:27:08
Speaker
the right way, right? So, you know, common mistakes, and we'll we'll talk a little about this, but there's some common mistakes that companies make when entering the warehouse market, right? Ultimately, a lot of these people are getting calls from either a third party or they're getting it direct and they're saying, hey, I need this structure, this size, yada, yada, yada, right? Okay, so we ultimately see it as, okay, well, that's a year-long rental. That's just mailbox money. That's going to be great, Right.
00:27:29
Speaker
But what we what a lot of people don't think about is the snow loads, the engineering, the different things that go into that. So when you go out and you put up a smaller frame structure that can't hold ah a snow load or ice or anything like that, and you're out in the middle of Michigan, let's say somewhere, and it gets into wintertime and that year long rental is still out there.
00:27:47
Speaker
People don't think a lot about that. And they think that, you know, we can just go out there, push the snow off and everything else. But what do you see that are are some common mistakes that people make on this type of stuff? And what was the idea about how you engineered this product and how you really pushed to make it a real safe product to call it a warehouse product?
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah. ah You know, it's really interesting you say that because that's what most that's what a lot of the rental ah group thinks out there is that, oh, hey, it's a structure, you know, because it's a structure. I can just go out and put this thing up for two years, three years, four years. And and and in some applications you can and you get away with it and there's and there's no problem. There are places you know that that works. What I found what I found is that a few people that were trying to make that a a business model, we're finding out that, you know, what they're really end up trying to do is they're trying to take a product and that wasn't designed to go out and do that and design it in the field to make it work the best they can. And so they're back and forth all the time with this, you know,
00:28:46
Speaker
air is coming in here, water is leaking here, hey, it's gonna we're going to get 16 inches of snow tonight. you know So you know the temporary buildings just aren't aren aren't designed for that. So what we knew is coming into this thing is that we've got to take all of that noise out of the beginning of the equation. So we know that it's pre-engineered on the front end up to, I mean, to the permanent code, which is, you know, and in in the permanent code, it's it's just different. i mean, you just meet, you know, the international building code as a permanent building or you don't. You know, the temporary the temporary code is a different deal altogether, but in in the engineering behind the permanent code, it's, it's,
00:29:23
Speaker
very fixed on what it is. I mean, it's it's it's just dictated, you're gonna get this much snow load. And like with our building, we'll take this this warehouse building right now from 15, most of it's 15 meter to 30 meter. and's ah And the bigger demand is 30 meter. The other thing you get with these buildings from an engineering standpoint that you don't get with the temporary code is that you know once you get to a four meter leg,
00:29:49
Speaker
For the most part, you're pretty well maxed out unless you're dealing with a very big profile, ah you know, 300 millimeters, you know, 334 or bigger, you know, kind of thing. You're you're living in ah in a in a four meter upright height.
00:30:02
Speaker
In this world here, we take this thing all the way up to 6.4 meters. on the upright as a standard right out of the box. Now there's some other things that we do with the warehouse building as well. It's got the two-ply thermal roof panels that come along with that. And that's a big piece of it as well, because what that allows you to do, a lot of people, they're going out and they put the standard building up. it's just got the drop-in purlins and that type of thing. Well, these this is something totally different than that. This two-ply roof, this pillow roof that gets pressure to it's like nine to 11 pounds of pressure. It's literally like going up hitting a car tire.
00:30:34
Speaker
When that thing's fully inflated. And the only way you can do that, you can't have drop in purlins at that point because that it'll just crush them as that thing's inflating. So this building is just designed and built bolt on purlins, you know, and and and we have um and we've had to take the time with our engineers to make sure that, you know, we get.
00:30:52
Speaker
exactly what we're looking for and we're not going to push this thing beyond so like we know we can go to 30 meter and get 30 pounds but if we go to 25 you know we can we know that we can get you know 42 pounds if we go to 20 we can get you know 57 pounds so we and we've done that engineering on each one of those sizes because it makes a difference right in the temporary world you just don't get that right you get a code it's usually the maximum width the bigger that that that profile can do on the tallest leg.
00:31:22
Speaker
And it it either meets that temporary code or it doesn't. Right. So that's kind of how it's how it's worked in in for us in this world. Well, and since you've already hit on it, let's just jump right into it. Temporary codes and changes. I mean, the the there's a lot of those coming forward, especially with this style product. And just give us a little overview, because i know you know know, have some knowledge of this, of the the ASCE 722 and why it matters.
00:31:47
Speaker
Well, it matters now because, you know, it's really interesting and I'm i'm not an engineer in any way, shape or form. I'm just a sales guy, but I've been involved in, you know the the engineering piece of it, you know, at ah at at least at a 30,000 foot view. And what the 722 does is that it takes all of the reductions that you've been able to take out of the engineering over the last, you know,
00:32:11
Speaker
10 different code changes that it's been that I've been doing this. and and ah And then what it also, it doesn't, because it takes out any of those options to take reductions,
00:32:22
Speaker
It really, you know, the way the way it used to work up until 722 came out was it really was at the discretion of the company, how much risk they wanted to take through the MRIs and reduction factors that you could take on those kind of things. So when you start taking those reductions, you know, it starts affecting how much ballast you need on the plate. so it really comes down to the company that's going to put, that's going to send that engineering out and then put their name on it and start sending out their customers you know what risk what risk factor do you want to take in this thing and you know anchor's a fairly conservative company and you know we're going to make sure from the engineering standpoint that you know when we tell you this is what it is you can go to sleep that night and know that that's that's what it is but in the engineering world on on this building you know it's you know it's
00:33:08
Speaker
to to get this permanent code, you know, whereas they didn't really do this on the temporary on the temporary buildings, you know they didn't combine wind and snow, right? it was either It was a wind load or you weren't even getting a snow load because ah it met the temporary code. In this world here, you know, it's a combined, you know, wind and snow load that they're looking at when they're doing these this this and the engineering on these buildings. So, and for us, you know,
00:33:32
Speaker
the segment that we want to be in, we like it up to about this 30 pound per square foot snow load. And right now that's been a good fit for us. Yeah, there's been quite an impact on just permitting and engineering and safety standards as a whole recently. I feel like you know it's been more of a push. And I remember way back when when we first all went to Louisville and jumped in and and came out with the codes, books, and everything else and tried to talk to those officials. And a lot of that stuff has either gone away or it's been you know people don't really talk about it as much, and but you still got to get everything permitted, but not enough knowledge out there of everything currently.
Impact of permanent standards on manufacturing
00:34:04
Speaker
So What has been the impact on, you know, just permanent engineering as ah as a whole for you guys as a manufacturer lately?
00:34:11
Speaker
Well, it's it's ah it's just become a different world for us. You know, it's just it because it's now you're, i mean, you're literally, you know, to some degree, depending on, you know, how you're going to offer this building. I mean, you're literally acting as the general contractor now, you know, from start to finish on these buildings. So you're if you're saying this building's doing all this stuff, you know, meeting all this engineering, you know, then it has to meet that engineering. So that's that's that's been a piece of it. And for us, you know, we're trying to get this thing,
00:34:40
Speaker
out to the customer and our customers educated with the permanent engineering side thing, because we've lived so long in this, in this temporary world that, you know, getting these people that are going help us move these buildings and get it out there, they've got to have an education process as well. And so that's, that's a P that's a big piece that we're working on right now to try to get that in a place where, you know, as we're getting these buildings out, we're educating, you know, our customers on, you know, all the engineering behind it as well.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And, And also with that, it feels like there's more of an importance of anchoring and, you know, documentation and training as we move sort of this toward this whole, you know, safe tending standard to try to get kind of things moving on that as well. um You know, what does it look like on your end just from anchoring and documentation on that kind of stuff as well?
00:35:27
Speaker
it's It's interesting from ah from the most manufacturer standpoints, and this is something that we're actually ah you know in in debate on right now. Typically, when the manufacturer sells a building, they're taking responsibility from everything on that building from the from the base plate up.
00:35:44
Speaker
Right. And in this, in this world, and we and we all know that there's, you know, there's a base load reaction on whoever's product that's out, that is out there. And, you know, based on that base load reaction, there studies and ballasting studies and things like that, that you can do in this tip, in this world here with the, in in the permanent world, that, that kind of is, is taken out of the equation, you know, it's going to be permanent building, then it's going to need the proper footings and foundation. And that's usually going to be an upfront thing that's that's known on the front end so that we know when we're coming in and supplying this kind of anchor for this product on this location, you know we know we've met you know the engineering behind that.
00:36:22
Speaker
Absolutely. And what do you think next for Anchor? I mean, you guys are now, are you guys come out with these two new products that are just ah amazing products and they're both two totally different products and they hit two different totally sides of the industry. You know, the the longer term, the bigger companies, you hit this Vixen that can be a little bit for everybody. Where do you see everything going and just are you guys going dive in deeper with this stuff or just what the trend is and things like that?
Focus on innovation and industry trends
00:36:47
Speaker
You know, we're we're we're always looking for the new trends. And again, we we we hit on that a little bit earlier. You know, we're all looking for the next new thing and there's we've got designs. where we We have a group right now working on, you know, ah ah a new design on a product. And and ah I don't have a lot of detail on it right now, but I know they've been back there working on it But like for us, You know, it's it's a couple of things. So it's certainly get coming out with a new product, you know, when when the time is right and striking that iron while it's hot.
00:37:14
Speaker
And that right now has been VXN for us because we have not had an entry level type product into the clear span. And then we've never had a product that is permanent and meets permanent code. You know, we I've been down this path, I don't know how many times where a guy says, well, hey, just all you got to do is throw another cable in here. All you got to do is this. Well, at the end of the day, you know, it's either engineered to meet it or it's not.
00:37:35
Speaker
And so we and I had spent a lot of time in the early years, you know, trying to figure out how, you know, we could get it out there and just do the basic minimum to get it to that level.
00:37:46
Speaker
But then you have all the risk associated with it. And it just got to a point where we're just saying, hey, that's it's just that's not the right product. We're trying to make something we're trying to design something that's not designed to do. Right. So these are two products of what they were designed to do. And that's going to be our focus right now but we're always, you know we, we never walk away from, you know, the new opportunity and what's, what's, what's next out there. And, and, uh, we'll, we'll continue to work on those things.
00:38:09
Speaker
i don't know about product, but now that you're in Nashville, we'll have to have a beer and sit down and, uh, And then talk it out and and go through it. So, Mike, I appreciate you coming on today, giving us more insight on just what you guys got coming. I'm excited for it. Just like everything else in this industry, we got some good trends and things coming through. And I appreciate you telling us a little bit more about it today. I appreciate it. Thanks, Nate. You guys have a great day. right, Mike.
00:38:30
Speaker
Have a good day. And this has been another episode of Under the Vinyl, a rental management media podcast.