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Finding meaning and community in tech-fueled hustle culture
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What happens when you get everything you thought you wanted and still feel empty?
Tychon Carter won Big Brother Canada, gained fame and followers overnight, and felt completely lost. The success arrived before he was ready for it. The external validation didn't fill the internal void.
In this conversation, we dig into the gap between looking successful and actually feeling whole. Tychon walks through his journey from urban planner to reality TV winner to performance coach, and the hard lessons about self-worth that came with it.
We explore the masks we wear in professional spaces, the cost of performative confidence we don't feel, and why so many high-achievers feel stuck despite checking all the boxes. Tychon's "Start With You" framework breaks down three critical areas most of us keep out of balance:
- Power (accessing your authentic self)
- Play (creating and enjoying life beyond work)
- and Peace (finding internal harmony)
The conversation gets real about mental health, the isolation trap of self-reliance, and why giving to community might be more rewarding than the endless pursuit of more.
Mentioned
- Johann Hari, Lost Connections
- On prescribing community work to treat depression
- More on Adam Grant and Jane Dutton’s study of contribution journals
More about Tycoon Carter
Recommended
Transcript
Choosing Gratitude and Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
gratitude is a choice right and a lot of times we look at all the things that we don't have rather than assessing the things that we do have and i think again when i go back to reflection lot that comes from reflection we don't call ourselves the truth a lot of times because we're standing within ourselves all we see is i wish i was taller or i wish i was slimmer or i wish i had more money or i wish i had a better job but when you're able to acknowledge that you have the like the things that you've wanted for so long that you got, and then still say to myself, you know what, but I can do more.
00:00:37
Speaker
that That is a different perspective than saying, you know what, I will be happy when. And I think a lot of us, it's like we don't take time to reflect on the journey that we've that we've taken, the wins that we've gotten along it.
Introduction of Tishon Carter
00:00:49
Speaker
And I think that's where sometimes our power our power seeps out because we don't realize we've got we've come so
00:01:04
Speaker
This is Bare Knuckles and Brass Tacks, the tech podcast about humans. I'm George K. I'm Jordette. And we are super hyped as we record this because we just got off with Tishon Carter, who is a performance coach for executives.
00:01:20
Speaker
And his story is really fascinating, going from reality show winner to fame to depression, isolation, and then discovering how he got out of that.
00:01:31
Speaker
I don't know. this We laughed a lot, had a great time, but there's so much in here about how to maintain your sanity and thrive in this crazy tech mediated landscape that we are all living in. i couldn't believe it, man. i'm still I'm still kind of riding the high from it because we touched on everything. And... um like he kind of preaches, man, it's authenticity and he's a very authentic individual and he kind of talks about the problem statement that, you know, high performance individuals face. And i think, you know, talks a lot about life transitions and um it's nice. He also speaks to mental health and we kind of talk about like dealing with depression. And i think,
00:02:14
Speaker
You know, beyond beyond tech, this kind of deals with the real things that folks um are probably thinking about. So I hope people are enjoying their workouts or their drives and they're listening to this because I think this is a very worthwhile episode.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, let's hand it over to Sean Carter.
00:02:32
Speaker
Sean Carter, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.
Tishon's Journey and Challenges
00:02:38
Speaker
Yes. So we're going to start with the hero's journey, the most obvious place, right? So you went from urban planning degree to reality TV star, the first ah black winner of Canada's version of Big Brother and now performance coach. That is a lot of stuff crammed into a very small time period.
00:02:59
Speaker
But I want to give you time to flesh that out a bit for our listeners and then tell us where you are today and we'll dig in. Absolutely. So as you kind of said, I went from Urban Planner, randomly got onto Big Brother Canada, a show which is a social game full of manipulation, but also understanding people and building relationships and friendships.
00:03:19
Speaker
I ended up winning that series, ah not even expecting to because I i didn't watch the show. i wasn't a fan of it. i was literally just being myself. Won the series and... Came into a place of winning money, fame, followers simultaneously, but not knowing what to do with it. So it was this idea of success coming at me before I was ready for it and or I was felt prepared for it. And immediately I felt this feeling of anxiety, depression, all these things started coming up for me that sort of helped me understand like what it feels like to be successful yet still feel empty.
00:03:59
Speaker
where the others are looking at you from the outside thinking you had it all figured out and you didn't. That really brought me on a journey toward coaching. ah Not right away, first it was like a healing journey. It was like, why do I feel so empty even though I have fame, followers, ah perceived success from the outside? And then when I started doing that work, I realized there was just this internal misalignment within me.
00:04:24
Speaker
I didn't believe I deserved what I had. I didn't believe i was great. I didn't feel like I loved myself and I didn't know who I truly was at my core.
00:04:35
Speaker
And once I started going on that journey, there lot of therapy. There's a lot of coaching and there's just a lot of internal work like journaling, writing, reading, and figuring out like who is Tashon at its core. And how am I defined by the work that I do or am I just good?
00:04:52
Speaker
regardless of my external successes. And once I started doing that work, it brought me on the journey of coaching because I realized that through using a coach or through having a coach, I start to develop a level of competence and understanding that I can attain whatever I want, but I'm not my achievements.
'Start with You' Methodology
00:05:11
Speaker
I'm not my successes, I'm not my failures. these are things that just happen along the journey and all those information. So as I went on that journey, I started to become a coach and started coaching clients because I noticed that a lot of people feel this way no matter what field they're in.
00:05:26
Speaker
They get a job, a senior level job, and they don't feel like anybody understands them. Or they don't feel seen or they don't feel complete. They see it with celebrities all the time. It's like they get them they have a big hit song and they want to they have all this pressure on them to keep it going.
00:05:40
Speaker
And they don't know how to manage that. So I realized that like this is a common struggle where even though you look successful on the outside, you can feel empty on the inside. And I just wanted to help people navigate that journey and start to realize like their value is not determined.
00:05:54
Speaker
by their output, their values determined on how they see themselves. Yeah. And so I know we talked offline, but like what is the core methodology that you've arrived at?
00:06:08
Speaker
So I have this start with you methodology, which really talks about starting with yourself. And I have three Ps that i outline as part of this methodology, and it's called the power, play, and peace.
00:06:22
Speaker
I find that a lot of people, when they're not in alignment, one of those three or all of those three are not coexisting together at a balanced level. So when i say power, play, and peace, power meaning that you're not really truly accessing your authentic power. Who are you at your core and what makes you you?
00:06:41
Speaker
And what what can the world see of you and what can you do to make yourself um see yourself as great? Peace, not living with any peace, living constantly stressed, constantly feeling like you're not doing enough, constantly in a form of disarray and not feeling truly in harmony at peace with how you feel internally. And then play. Play is one where it's like, do you create?
00:07:06
Speaker
Do you have fun? Do you dance? Do you sing? Do you... when you're not playing and you're not enjoying yourself and living your life in that way, I find that life can be monotonous, right? And I find sometimes, you know, lot of people are in their power. They work, work, work, work. work They're very successful, but they can't go on a date or they can't. Yeah, sure.
00:07:28
Speaker
can't let loose. Let loose, guys. lose They can't draw a picture. They can't do anything that they might not be good at for a second. Right? Or some people may just be at peace.
00:07:39
Speaker
They just feel peace, but they sit there thinking, maybe one day I can change my career. Or maybe one day I can travel.
00:07:53
Speaker
Or some people just play. They're just always creating, creating, creating, but they never feel like they actually take it seriously and access their true power. So it's like in in some cases, there's a little bit of all of them out of balance, or in sometimes it's it's just one.
00:08:06
Speaker
But I found that like with me specifically, it was ah it was literally my power. I didn't believe, I was scared to access my power because I didn't feel like I had earned it. didn't feel like I had earned this spot. Very natural given that you went through the gauntlet of a show and it's like, this was just given to me, right? Exactly. Right. And it's like, that wasn't necessarily the truth. That's the truth I told myself.
00:08:28
Speaker
Right. It's like, in order for me to get through that show and do so well, there's, there's a lifetime of work that went behind that. Right. In order to be, to be able to have these conversations, to be able to understand people and have this level of emotional intelligence, there is work that I did. I just didn't recognize it. And lot of times coaching is a journey of reflection. Right.
00:08:48
Speaker
A lot times you've done the work, but no one has held up the mirror to you and said, are you are you seeing it though? And I found that with me. it's It's interesting should say that because that's like, ah you know, in in any professional journey, whether it's athletic or whether it's a career, you see a lot of people that do amazing things and they have all these amazing skills, but like the imposter syndrome is like super, super real, like especially in our business.
00:09:13
Speaker
And I was saying that I was an athlete. I'm a very washed up athlete now, but I was for a long time. And in all my sports, it was always like you deal with these like people that really weren't that talented. And maybe they did one or two things or they were part of a championship team or something. And they had like the biggest egos.
00:09:31
Speaker
And then you deal with people who are like actual like kind of prodigies. And they're just like... They almost couldn't even see it. And like everything else just kind of annoyed them. And they just, they would go in the field and do what they do. And then afterwards it was like, they were a completely different person. So it's funny you speak to that.
00:09:48
Speaker
Also shout out to the big brother Canada. I forgot that show was a thing for a while too. i haven't had cable a long time. I'm in, I'm in Ottawa, man. It's snowy as hell. Where are you at I'm in Toronto. Yeah.
00:09:59
Speaker
Oh, so you know how it is, bro. I was just there. So a shout out to you. i appreciate you i appreciate you coming on and and really bringing in your value and perspective on here. i kind of want to kind of pick at the authenticity problem a little bit because like you built a platform on vulnerability.
00:10:14
Speaker
And, you know, most professional spaces, especially in our
Maintaining Authenticity in Professional Spaces
00:10:18
Speaker
industry, um you know, they reward the opposite, right? Projecting confidence, having having your shit together or looking like it or shit together, even if you're at that complete chaos and catastrophe on the inside.
00:10:30
Speaker
um I guess, how do you find the balance of keeping it real without becoming overly performative? Because I find, I talk to a lot of peers and colleagues about wearing the mask.
00:10:42
Speaker
we have to wear a mask when we go to work. And it's like, we're not giving our real reactions, not being our real selves. um This is another example. ah We have a friend who you know is trying to like get back in the job market, and they they have a stuck point where like you know they don't really want to bend to the part they have to play to land the job with the organizations. They just want to be themselves, and that's not what's getting them in the door.
00:11:09
Speaker
It's like, you know, I don't have the heart to be like, but but you got to play the game if you want to be in the game. Right. How do you strike the balance and maintain some sense of authenticity with yourself while still achieving in this performance based paradigm that we exist in? That's weird question, Jordan. Thank you for sharing that.
00:11:28
Speaker
I think a lot of it comes from the concept of reflection. Right. And when I say that, when you maintain, you when you reflect, you're able to understand that, okay, I am playing the game, but this is who I am.
00:11:43
Speaker
I think when we lose ourselves is when the game completely takes over our life. Right. So it, when I'm creating content or when I'm telling my story, I understand that there's a part of it that there's a there's an avatar that I've created and said, you know what, Tashaun is this to the outside world, right?
00:12:03
Speaker
I understand that, right? And within that, Tashaun is authentic with boundaries, right? I'm not going to tell you every secret in my relationship or everything that happens in my life. I understand that, but I've decided in time what my boundaries are.
00:12:18
Speaker
And I think a lot of times people don't understand that like when it comes to being authentic ah as it relates to the real world, there's a boundary that you can have. There's things you can keep for yourself. And I think it's just understanding that balance between what do I keep for myself and what do I share deciding that beforehand.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yes. Right? Love that. Love that. Like it's not all or nothing, you know? Yeah. Pick your character. Yeah, you don't have to live in extremes, right? It's just like, this is who I am to the world, right? So for me, it's like, I do share my mental health journey is like, once I have processed what I'm going through, right? So once i'm eight once I'm able to put words to it and write about it and journal about it, then I'm like, okay, now I can talk about it Because a lot of times I don't feel safe sharing stuff with the general public that I have not yet put to paper.
00:13:10
Speaker
which Which speaks to compartmentalization because George and I make the joke all the time. It's like, oh, that LinkedIn post was probably meant for Facebook or would be better on Instagram. And just people like overshare things. Context matters. Yeah.
00:13:26
Speaker
how do How do you coach that? Dude, because some things like it's a professional platform and some stuff is meant for your weird uncles and your friends from high school. you know what I mean? Yes, for sure. For sure. Like you just playing with chat GPT image generator is not really professional conversation. it just knows way too much now man It's just you noodling about, man. Don't do it in public.
00:13:48
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like asking your question, like how will this land? That matters. and When you communicate only for yourself, you're not taking that into consideration. And I think to your point about power, if you're in your power, it's also about the intention. Like, what do I want to direct this power towards? Is it building this business? Is it communicating this thing versus that thing?
00:14:12
Speaker
um Not just kind of like flaunting it in all directions in know, meaningless way. um you said when you got the fame of winning the show that you felt lost and that success didn't bring the happiness you expected. i acknowledge, of course, that it did it did two things. One, it gave you money that you otherwise wouldn't have. It also probably bought you a little bit of time to do the discovery that eventually got you to this work, which I take is much more fulfilling, right? So sometimes we go through the shit to get to the shine.
00:14:44
Speaker
But what would you tell someone who is grinding towards a goal that they have, you know, they kind of have put all of their stock in. Like, if I can only get this, you know, I will be happy. Because this is a very common trap, you know, across this ah neoliberal economic order that we're living in. Like, it's just, and I'm going to get to a little bit of that later, but it's very much like,
00:15:11
Speaker
um everything feels very linear, right? I mean, we even call it the corporate ladder. Like everything runs in a straight line, right? It's like, ah go to school, get good grades, get the grades, go to the college, go to the college, get this job, get, you know, it's just always like, they just kind of i keep moving the goalposts with this idea that once you get the goal, you somehow have achieved nirvana. So what what are you telling those people, especially the the high-powered execs that you coach?
00:15:40
Speaker
Well, that's a myth. It's a myth because you will always move the goal pole. There will always be a thing down the road that'll make you happy no matter what. And if you look back on your life, that's all that's all a lot of us have done our whole lives. Like you're saying, it's like, this and when I graduate high school or when I move out from my parents' house, I'm going to be so happy because they can't tell me what to do.
00:16:03
Speaker
And now a lot of adults are wishing they were kids again where everything was just taken care of. so Yes. Like when I'm an adult, whatever I want, I'll be so happy. And now you're an adult and you're like, oh, wow, it was so nice when i didn't have to worry about bills or stress or kids.
00:16:20
Speaker
And then it's like, it's always a thing. It's when I graduate. It's when when i when i find my person. Then you get married, then you hate that person. and you want to divorce them. And then it's like when I have kids. And then you have kids and you're like, when the kids grow up, like there's always a thing you're going to say, i will be happy when.
00:16:36
Speaker
And I think that's where it becomes a choice. Happiness is a choice. great Gratitude is a choice, right? And a lot of times we look at all the things that we don't have rather than assessing the things that we do have. And I think, again, when I go back to reflection, all that comes from reflection.
00:16:54
Speaker
We don't call ourselves the truth a lot of times because we're standing within ourselves. All we see is, oh, wish I was taller or I wish I was slimmer or I wish I had more money or wish I had a better job.
00:17:06
Speaker
But when you're able to acknowledge that you have the like the things that you've wanted for so long that you've got, and then still say to myself, you know what, but I can do more.
Choosing Happiness and Gratitude
00:17:19
Speaker
that That is a different perspective than saying, you know what, I will be happy when. And I think a lot of us, it's like we don't take time to reflect on the journey that we've that we've taken, the wins that we've gotten along. it And I think that's where sometimes our power our power seeps out because we don't realize,
00:17:36
Speaker
we've got We've come so far. Like when I look at where I am today, i would have dreamed to be in this position where it's like, you know what? I went on TV. I was able to help thousands of people. i was able to tell my story to them. Like when I reflect on what I've been able to do, it makes me realize like, wow, I have come a long way.
00:17:55
Speaker
But it takes that reframe. Yeah, I think, you know, decades of psychological research definitely backs up intrinsic motivation versus the extrinsic, despite the fact that we all know that it's very easy to fall into the trap.
00:18:09
Speaker
And I say that as somebody who grew up in a place and it wasn't necessarily my parents, but it's like the culture of the place was very much this, you achieve this, then this, then this, then this. And so like I went into college thinking I i had the four-year plan, I was going to major in this and that, and then It's like Wile E. Coyote. I like ran off the cliff and it took me a moment to realize there was no ground underneath me because I got out of college and and I didn't want to do that plan. And I kind of like went out to sea for three years before I was like, what am I supposed to do? Dude, I didn't know that pain, man. and When I was a kid, wanted to be a fighter pilot. like I watched Top Gun and I was like super into it. And then it's like, oh, you're too tall and you have a stigma so you can't fly
00:18:50
Speaker
jets And I was like, okay, cool. So then I went to the officer academy. I was like, cool, I'm a... become an intelligence officer and eventually become like a command general and all these delusions of grandeur that my very Arab parents like fed into me and i love my parents, but just the immigrant kids, you know how it is? Yes. And all that like immediately, immediately fell apart.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I feel like, like George a little bit, like, it's just like, you're kind of making it up as you go every day, every week. Like our careers are great. We've built these wonderful professional reputations and all this stuff. But like, honestly, I'm,
00:19:25
Speaker
really flying by the seat of my pants, still really, really still kind of am. And I think, I think it's mentally healthier to acknowledge that and not let the, don't know, your opinion on this, but I get faking it till you make it, but if you're not real with yourself about where you are in your journey and and being self-aware and introspective, like does that not lead to potentially damaging behavior or depression, right? Because recognizing that depression psychologically is being unable to manifest our our desired reality, like living in a reality that does not align with what you really believe in or what you want.
00:20:03
Speaker
Like, does does this kind of lead to that crisis of depression that we've we've been seeing a lot and and not just in our industry, but across our entire working class at this point?
00:20:14
Speaker
I think like, yeah, to your point, I think a lot of things that lead to depression, like a big part of it too, is it's this acknowledgement of I can't forgive myself for my past. Right. There's this, there's a sense of I should have, or I could have, or if I would have done this right.
00:20:33
Speaker
Not being able to, and so like of empowerment and knowing that the choices that I make today can affect my tomorrow. And a lot of depression is actually this concept of being stuck in the past.
00:20:44
Speaker
Like for me. if only I had, you know. Exactly. like if if, if I would have done this differently. and studying and analyzing one. Right? But to your point, George, there is a a freedom that comes with, I don't know, I'm just figuring it out.
00:21:02
Speaker
Buying things and I, something will, like there there is a freedom in that. And, When people, like when we think of sometimes even like our favorite creators or our favorite celebrities or our favorite people we watch on TV, a lot of the way we love them for their authenticity.
00:21:19
Speaker
It's not because we think they're wearing a mask. It's because a lot of times they just keep it real. I don't know. i don't know what's going happen, but I'm just going to try my best. That sort of authenticity is is what is actually attractive.
Building a Personal Brand
00:21:34
Speaker
But the mask that we wear, first of all, it can be painful for us. And then secondly, a lot of times people can sense it.
00:21:44
Speaker
When we return from the break, we get into the personal costs of personal branding. We talk about intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation when trying to advance your career. And finally,
00:21:58
Speaker
about joining communities and the rewards of giving back.
00:22:07
Speaker
In my career, the thing that was the most liberating, and I haven't learned or figured out a lot, but I did figure this out, was I worked in a huge marketing agency and you could just do this ladder climb.
00:22:20
Speaker
And I was like, this work is hella boring. And i am not motivated by it. And when I am bored at work, like everything feels just faded, muted.
00:22:33
Speaker
It's like there's no joy. Right. And and i was just telling a friend yesterday, i was like, I don't know what the fuck's wrong with me that I can't like just plug in like the gear and the machine and just do the thing.
00:22:46
Speaker
It's like, this is why I've always gravitated to startups and entrepreneur stuff is just because I guess I just find it more interesting. But it was learning that about myself. Like, I'm just not going to be that person.
00:22:57
Speaker
So I need to stop pretending I'm going to climb this ladder because I fucking hate it. And I'm going to go do this thing that is way harder. And I'm probably going to get paid less in the in the near term. But at least I don't have the Sunday scaries.
00:23:11
Speaker
Which I think puts me in like maybe 0.5% of the working force on the planet. Like I look forward. I look forward to Monday. It's crazy. I'll give you the double or nothing, dude, is when you climb that ladder really, really fast, like faster than anyone else. Like that's what I experienced. And then you get to the top and you're like, oh it kind of sucks up here. what? Yeah.
00:23:32
Speaker
that's sort of like Wait a minute. I thought this ladder was going to the party. There's no party here. real party it's It's just, it's more beatings. It's just more beatings. But I digress, to get back on track. I mean, and talk about you you document a lot of your struggles in real time and and really, truly, ah thank you for that because think more people need to hear that it's made normal so that they feel normal.
00:23:55
Speaker
um you know And you're not just putting up highlight reels because know you got a ton of those. For people thinking about trying to build a personal brand because everyone talks about this. What is the actual cost of putting yourself out there like that? Because I know I have generalized anxiety, but that's like a general thing. So everything makes me trip out at some point or another.
00:24:15
Speaker
But what is the real cost of going from a blue collar working life to now everyone knows you, you're out there, you're doing the big deal thing. That's a lot of pressure, right?
00:24:27
Speaker
It is. It is. like and they And they say sometimes, like, pressure either makes diamonds or burst pipes. The The truth. Or sometimes both. um You know what? Like, there's costs and there's returns on it.
00:24:41
Speaker
And what I'll say is that, like, for me, kind of like what you spoke to, George, I think the hardest part of getting to that top or seemingly the top was that feeling of, like, is this And the is this it came from the fact that I felt like I had to perform for others, right? And sometimes the cost of building your personal brand, it can feel like you're performing for others.
00:25:09
Speaker
But the return that's possible for building a personal brand is the fact that connections like these, like the amount of people and opportunities that I've received just from telling my story or adding value to people's lives, has those benefits have significantly outweighed the cost.
00:25:30
Speaker
And just from like working with different people and being online, you see like there are people who are like, their personal brand could be gardening. And then they're just talking about how much they love gardening and the challenges they had in their career. They hated their career, they started gardening, and then they started a gardening community. and Now people are signing up to be part of the community. Now they're making $150,000, $200,000 worth of gardening community, selling gardening tools. And they're just like, they're doing the thing they love all because they created a personal brand and added value shared their story.
00:26:00
Speaker
And yes, like it is, there are challenges because Yes, you might not be well-received online. Like, I just did an ad a few weeks ago online, and people hate me for it. Like, they're saying, what is with people hating people for getting begged? I don't understand that. like go get your money, man.
00:26:20
Speaker
No, you know what? The debate was about washing chicken. I said how it's a red flag not for washing chicken. And people were angry about it. And I'm like, it was just a joke. But people are super mad about this. Well, this is perfect, right? Because my next question is about play. So these people got to go outside play a little bit more because getting upset over that is ridiculous. ridiculous You talked about ah feeling empty and isolation and I wanted to return to my neoliberal economics ah point earlier, which is we've been living in the shadow of that for some time, but what it really does is ah is it really hypes the individual, right?
00:27:01
Speaker
We've got, especially in the tech world where we work, there's always like the lone startup genius, despite the fact that they went to private school and their network was amazing and they were immediately connected with, like all of that gets ignored. It's just like this person singularly did all of this stuff.
00:27:19
Speaker
um I guess the question is twofold. it It feels like it's worth asking, how do you talk to your clients about kind of over self-reliance, right? and is that a form of self-sabotage?
00:27:33
Speaker
And then also, does that touch on that play aspect, right? Because when you're doing something fun and you're in the play, that's almost always connected to a community or to others.
00:27:46
Speaker
It just feels like those two things are very connected.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, so when we think of play, like there's obviously different types of individuals who enjoy different things. Like some people are extroverts and they feel they recharge, like me, I'm an extrovert. Like when I'm in community and doing fitness classes, ah doing any kind of group instruction, I'm recharged.
00:28:14
Speaker
Where some people, it's like, it could be building a puzzle on their own. That recharges them. But a big part of my coaching is community. And even in the beginning, like one of the first exercises I have ah my clients do is a 180 survey. So what they do is they go to five people in their life and they ask them five questions about how they are perceived by those people.
00:28:40
Speaker
And what that does for them is, one, it's a community exercise where it's like you have to go and speak to people. But secondly, it helps you identify like the truths about yourself that you may not see.
00:28:55
Speaker
So a big part of of my coaching is also like interacting with community to better understand yourself because understanding yourself from your own perspective is valuable, but understanding how you're truthfully perceived by different people around you adds another layer of value that you may not see. and when I did that exercise myself, I would hear from some of my friends, they'd be like, you are so um emotionally intelligent. You're such a good listener. You're all these things that maybe I might not have perceived.
00:29:29
Speaker
my own self, I kind of, i sort of leaned on my community to hear them. And then I hear things like, you know what, you doubt yourself a lot when we don't understand why. Hearing that was powerful because it's like, oh, wow, like you guys see that I doubt myself and you don't understand why I would.
00:29:46
Speaker
When you heal in community, There's so much to be gained from that. So when i when I talk about coaching, it's not coaching just into the self. Yes, understanding self is a big part of it, but we are one.
00:30:01
Speaker
we can our world is our relationships define almost the experience we have in our world.
Community, Identity, and Mental Health
00:30:07
Speaker
And it's very important for us to understand like the impact we're having on the relationships around us and how people perceive us tells us a lot about who we are.
00:30:16
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, I mean, that really checks out too. Sorry, that checks out because there's been a lot of recent science and work around actually prescribing people who have depression.
00:30:29
Speaker
Like the prescription is to go join a gardening club, to go do something because we're social primates. I mean, I think Johan Hari covered this most famously in his book, Lost Connections. But you can see this stepwise increase in self-worth because once you're working with a community, kind of get out of the echo chamber of your head, right? You're like too busy doing stuff. But i I like that exercise. I think that's really interesting.
00:30:56
Speaker
Absolutely. And even beyond that, it's like, yes, being part, I have a lot of, like, when I think of, like, my journey and coming up and why, you know, as an adolescent and a young adult, what brought me a lot of joy was playing basketball, men's league, being part of team, right? And a lot of times when people leave sports, George, as you were kind of saying, I think some of one of the biggest challenges, they they also lose their team.
00:31:21
Speaker
It's not just their identity, but it's their identity within a community. So there's so much power of having an identity that's also within a community. And sometimes we lose that. Even at work, sometimes we don't feel like our our our peers are our community. Sometimes it just feels like we go to work, we act, we put on a mask, we say, good morning. Morning, Carol. And then we're like, we're all on our weekends.
00:31:45
Speaker
And then that's kind of it. Like we're all just wearing a mask the whole time. But it's that lack of community that sometimes makes us feel so comfortable. You know what those two groups, there's two groups that really um speak to that in my experience in life. Maybe you guys got different, but One is ex-athletes, high-performance athletes. Either it's a college-level athlete pro-athlete when their time ends and they got to reintegrate in the real world and they just like can't,
00:32:08
Speaker
like they're still living in that past and it's like five, 10, 15 years later. Like I grew up in a big hockey town. Everyone played other hockey or football and lot of folks, you know, a handful of them made it.
00:32:20
Speaker
Other ones just, just didn't, they got close and they're still kind of living in that. And it's like, dude, you're you're talking about a thing that happened like 10 years ago. Like we respect it, but it's like time to move on. And the other thing, um, as a veteran ah soldiers, right? When you, when you unplug soldiers from the big green machine,
00:32:38
Speaker
Man, it's it can be catastrophic on mental health. Like I'm talking like there's people make some really, really um unfortunate decisions with their lives afterwards. So they just can't find that fit or because they're so addicted to the rush.
00:32:55
Speaker
They'll go back and they'll join a private military contractor and do even more dangerous shit. to get that adrenaline kick again but it's like you're you're putting your life on the line and you're not even doing anything that's like a national mission you're just doing it for money you're a mercenary right and and you know plenty of people in those worlds and they're the individually they're great people but from a psychological point of view i think that speaks to kind of that they need that community and they need to stay around it to feel like they're validated as human beings But again, I think it speaks to kind of like one thing like we want to ask and it's talking about, you know, something to change.
00:33:33
Speaker
If you could shift one thing about how men in professional spaces especially approach like mental health or community, you know, what would it be? And what's the first step anyone listening could take tomorrow to improve their their own look at their selves and then how they deal with the world?
00:33:53
Speaker
What's a good question? There's one thing i think men could do
00:34:02
Speaker
improve how they look at themselves and look at the world.
00:34:07
Speaker
I think I'm going to still go back to like being part of community and being part of community in a way where you're giving. um Important point. Important point.
00:34:21
Speaker
Does that have to add that when you're giving something? um I think ah the challenge with a lot of us in today's world, and I think I've been here even as like a content creator influencer, you think so much of like me, me, me, me. me I need this. I need to get better. I need to make more money. I need to.
00:34:43
Speaker
But when you give, um there's a reward that comes from giving that's beyond, um Just the fact that you're you're helping somebody, you're uplifting somebody.
00:34:57
Speaker
I was having that same problem. Like I was creating content super like the numbers, the stats, the analytics. And I had, I actually stepped away from it to work at a not-for-profit.
00:35:11
Speaker
um And we would help low income people in the community find homes. And I found like once I got back into a space of giving, um
00:35:23
Speaker
it put a different perspective on my life. Like it helped me release a lot of the pain and realize like there's,
00:35:33
Speaker
this is bigger than me.
00:35:36
Speaker
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Again, going back to social primates, like when you, feel you're giving back to the tribe there is an inherent biological reward because you there's a lot of uh their status associated with it but there's also like it's just part of that tribe and that troop that if you're only taking it's it's just not as rewarding for sure exactly and it's just like i think like
00:36:09
Speaker
in the society we live in, in this capitalistic society, we can become so ego-driven in the pursuit of just self. And when you release that and and and learn to give again, it just completes you in a whole different way that's rewarding not only for yourself, but for the others around you.
00:36:28
Speaker
And I think we lose that a lot, especially in our corporate pursuits. Yeah, I mean, i think I have found... That kind of generosity, yes, both intrinsically rewarding, but it has also come back. I mean, karma is real. Like, I've helped people get jobs, and then they put my name in the hat for something else. And there's actually research to back it up. Adam Grant, organizational psychologist, and and Jane Dutton had done a study where they compared doing gratitude journals versus contribution journals.
00:36:59
Speaker
And they did find that, like, gratitude makes... oh, i I feel happy, I feel connected, but it felt very passive. And the the sort of systemic gain from contribution journals was much greater because as you note every day, like, oh, I did this for the group or I gave this, like, you it's very rewarding. It's funny. And maybe maybe ah maybe you um you have thought on this too, but i was I was watching a video with James Sexton last night. He was on Diary River CEO. I love that podcast. And he was talking about how one thing that can help a lot of couples stay strong together in the long run is like once a week, sit down with your partner and tell them three things that you like about them and three things that like you'd want to see them like improve, right?
00:37:43
Speaker
About themselves or about how they relationship. And I've been thinking about that ever since where I'm like, you know how hard it is sometimes to sit down And not only look at yourself and hear someone say three things they like about you, but like to actually articulate three things you like about someone, especially someone who's like really important to you. And I was like, it goes back to that basic like gratitude and acknowledgement and being self-aware. And I feel like that seems to be the answer a lot of thought leaders are are coming back to is it's going back to authenticity, right?
00:38:17
Speaker
Absolutely. And i I do that and how you just say that, like I do that with my partner every week. It so rewarding um to share like, how could I support you better?
00:38:29
Speaker
You know, and how have I been supporting you well already? And it it creates this level of connection and depth. it it It just deepens our level of connection with each other. And I think it's like through that giving, it's a gift.
00:38:42
Speaker
And
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah, there's just something so rewarding about that. Nice. Well, let's end on rewarding. Tishan, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this. This got all deep into the human aspects that we love to talk about. And, you know, normally we're talking about tech and its implications, but I think this is very much still in the vein of technology.
00:39:08
Speaker
know, what are we all feeling? What are so many people going through in such a heavily tech-mediated environment and culture? So, yeah, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. Thanks, brother. Appreciate Thank you guys for having me
00:39:25
Speaker
That was Tashaun Carter. We hope you enjoyed that episode. new segment. Let's leave you with some questions.
Final Reflections on Gratitude and Joy
00:39:31
Speaker
The one that really stood out for me comes back to that question of play.
00:39:36
Speaker
i think we live in a culture that is grind, grind, grind, goals, goals, KPIs, OKRs, whatever. But finding the time in your day To just play, to do something for the intrinsic joy. Yes, he said it could be a puzzle. It could be a pickup basketball game.
00:39:54
Speaker
It could be pulling weeds. Just something that enlivens the spirit because it's going to be impossible for you to succeed at things like business goals and stuff that requires a lot of focus if your brain can't fucking relax. So how are you going to play this week is my question for you.
00:40:12
Speaker
my My question based on all this is what do you have gratitude for? Right. Ask yourself, like sit down once a week. Nice. Whether it's with your partner, whether it's with your kids, whether it's just yourself, list off three things that you have gratitude for about your own life and three things that you have gratitude for for, the people closest to you that they bring you in your life. And then hopefully you bring that because I think, Going back to a place of gratitude and centering and and acknowledging the the positives that we have.
00:40:44
Speaker
Keep us grounded and don't let us get buried by the weight of the mask that we have to wear every day. Dope. All right, gang. We'll see you next week.
00:40:56
Speaker
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00:41:10
Speaker
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