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God’s Strange Training Grounds: What Hannah, David, and Saul Have in Common
42 Plays16 days ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez and Pastor Ridley Barron talked about the book of 1 Samuel, highlighting its rich narratives and deep spiritual insights. They explored some of the lesser-known corners of the book, diving into topics like leadership driven by fear versus faith, the training grounds of pastures in David’s life, and even the strange moments where Saul prophesies—once while naked. They also discussed why God might have chosen Saul despite knowing he’d fail, and how stories in the Bible help us internalize truth through narrative. This episode is packed with thoughtful conversation, honest questions, and humorous reflections on one of the most action-filled books of the Bible.
Timestamps:
00:26 – Why 1 Samuel is such an exciting and universal story
01:40 – Sermon recap: faith-driven vs fear-driven leadership
04:09 – Warning signs of ambitious spiritual leadership
07:39 – Best ways to give feedback to church leaders
10:08 – Balancing time spent on spiritual growth
12:06 – Pastures as training grounds for leadership
15:35 – Wrestling with hard questions in 1 Samuel (God closing Hannah’s womb)
17:06 – Saul’s strange experiences with prophesying
20:30 – Saul prophesies naked – what’s going on?
23:15 – David fakes madness to survive – did God approve?
25:13 – Why did God choose Saul knowing he’d fail?
27:16 – Preview of upcoming sermons on the life of David
28:00 – Why stories stick with us and shape our faith
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Excitement about 1 Samuel
00:00:01
Dan Sanchez
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church Podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez, and I'm joined by Pastor Ridley Barron. And we are still in the Bible going into 1 Samuel. And I got to say, this is like one of the best, one of the most like exciting books in
Universal Impact of David and Goliath
00:00:15
Dan Sanchez
the Bible.
00:00:15
Dan Sanchez
There's a lot of exciting things, but this is like, this is one of the easy reads. This is like a breath of fresh air if you're trying to read through the whole Bible because it's action-packed.
00:00:20
Ridley Barron
Yes. Yes.
00:00:23
Dan Sanchez
Like who knows how many hundreds or thousands of stories are based on the story of Samuel, right? We all get inspiration from somewhere and a lot of stories we found inspiration.
Leadership: Fear vs. Faith
00:00:33
Dan Sanchez
The story, like if you go down really deep, like the David Goliath story is one of the greatest stories ever told.
00:00:37
Ridley Barron
yes
00:00:41
Ridley Barron
Whether you're part of the faith or not, most people have some kind of reference to facing the giants in your life or taking on those big challenges in relationship to this story. So yeah, it's it's not even necessarily about your faith. It's about recognizing that we all face challenges of giant proportions.
00:00:58
Dan Sanchez
Like to have not heard this, I know there's like seven, what is it? Seven billion people on the earth right now. Like it's only a small percentage. Well, maybe not. Maybe it's like a third or quarter of them that haven't heard this story, but otherwise like most people on earth have heard this one story, which is just crazy that one story can have that big of an impact or be known so well.
00:01:17
Ridley Barron
Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. Yeah.
00:01:21
Dan Sanchez
You have to be living in quite remote country to never have heard this story.
00:01:21
Ridley Barron
For sure.
00:01:23
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:01:24
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:01:26
Dan Sanchez
But there's a number of things that I want to talk about because while that story is so famous, that is not one of the things that I want to bring up on this podcast because I feel like that one's so well covered that I'm like, let's get off the beaten path into Samuel because there are plenty, plenty of little corridors to pop around in Samuel.
00:01:40
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:01:41
Dan Sanchez
But first I wanted to start with the sermon because there was a number of interesting aspects to the sermon that I'm like, oh, I was taking notes. and I was like, there's a few things to dig deeper into here.
Leadership Accountability and Ambition
00:01:50
Dan Sanchez
One of them was you talked about Saul's being wary of leaders that like are led by fear versus faith.
00:01:59
Dan Sanchez
was That was a major point of the sermon. But I was like, but but Ridley, what about the leaders that claim God's will but are actually led by their own ambition?
00:02:11
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:02:12
Dan Sanchez
So like, in Christianity...
00:02:14
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:02:14
Dan Sanchez
That happens a lot, right?
00:02:15
Ridley Barron
It happens way too much.
00:02:16
Dan Sanchez
There's tons of them and it's subtle and it's nuanced.
00:02:17
Ridley Barron
I know.
00:02:18
Dan Sanchez
And there's many shades of like, to some degree, there's probably always a sense of ambition in most spiritual leaders, but in some it's like full on cult.
00:02:19
Ridley Barron
I
00:02:26
Ridley Barron
know.
00:02:27
Dan Sanchez
And then there's many shades in between, but we've all worked for leaders that are claiming God's will. They're even saying, check what I say if it's in the Bible, check it, look, look out, pull your Bibles out. If you're there, they literally like saying, check your Bible.
00:02:40
Dan Sanchez
Nobody does, but then they, cross-reference verses and make it seem really good.
00:02:44
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:02:45
Dan Sanchez
What do we do about those leaders?
00:02:45
Ridley Barron
Right. Well, to be fair, to be completely honest, a good leader is going to know how to walk the balance between those two things because a good leader has to be in tune with the needs of his people.
00:02:57
Ridley Barron
So I don't think you can completely throw out the the feedback that you get from people, the concerns that are expressed by people. but it's the ability to balance that with the wisdom that comes from God, which obviously takes a bigger priority oh in all things.
00:03:15
Ridley Barron
But I've said for years, many of us, and by us, I mean pastors and leaders in the church are going to have to to apologize to God when we get to heaven for the things that we have blamed him for because we thought it was God's will.
00:03:29
Ridley Barron
When many times, like you said, it's our own ambition that drives us. We just find, we we proof text in scripture. the verses that help back up what we think we should be part of, you know?
00:03:41
Dan Sanchez
what are some tells that a leader has probably gone over too far into driving their own ambition versus actually listening to people?
00:03:52
Dan Sanchez
Like maybe it's probably like on both sides. Like, how do you know you've gone too far towards like, no, like I'm the Lord's chosen one and I'm interpreting the Bible to means we need to go this way and ignoring all the feedback from the people.
00:04:02
Dan Sanchez
Like what are some tells on that side? And what are some tells on the other side of the coin where they're leaning too far into listening to people and not enough to God?
Grace and Criticism for Leaders
00:04:09
Ridley Barron
I would think probably the biggest, most obvious tell on the side of overly ambitious leaders is who's getting the glory for what's being done. if It seems like more recognition, more fame, more acknowledgement, even more wealth is coming to some leader because of most of the time that's usually not God because God draws glory for himself and and no one else.
00:04:32
Ridley Barron
then ah I think one that falls closely behind it is when you, as you just said, when you ask for the backing, okay, show me why or where you got this information from.
00:04:42
Ridley Barron
If a pastor can only pull a verse or two out of context to back it up, that's a dangerous warning. never ever follow somebody who pulls text out of context in order to prove what they're doing.
00:04:55
Ridley Barron
but There should be multiple places where they have received affirmation. and And I would even say that many times the the accountability of the people around him, every good leader should have accountability. And and by accountability, I don't mean yes men who just tell him what he wants to hear. But people who feel comfortable and feel capable of saying to him, nope, you're wrong on this particular situation.
00:05:20
Ridley Barron
those Those kinds of people have to be in leader's life. for me to give any credence to what they say. Uh, cause if there's not some obvious, obvious checks and balances in there to check a man's spirit, that's a dangerous thing to let run wild.
00:05:37
Dan Sanchez
something we always have to be checking and
Constructive Feedback to Pastors
00:05:39
Dan Sanchez
guarding for. And I'm, I'm probably a little bit more, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a marketer. I'm a like critical of what people put out there.
00:05:46
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:05:48
Dan Sanchez
at the same time, nobody's perfect. Like it, well,
00:05:51
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:05:53
Dan Sanchez
Leaders need grace too at the same time. So it's like this tough balance of being critical.
00:05:56
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:05:57
Dan Sanchez
Are they two one way or the two the other? But at the same time, they need a lot of grace, right?
00:06:01
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:06:01
Dan Sanchez
I've been a leader at a few positions in a few companies and have had my own direct reports like just lambast me with things. You're like, what?
00:06:10
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Right.
00:06:10
Dan Sanchez
How could we spend $5,000 a month on advertising when we should be getting paid more? You're like, That is not a big ad budget. like i don't know what you're talking about.
00:06:17
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:06:18
Dan Sanchez
like you You have accusations thrown at you just sometimes because they don't have the context for what ministry leadership might be.
00:06:23
Ridley Barron
right yeah
00:06:25
Dan Sanchez
But other times it's just because, I don't know, they they got their own hurts and issues going on and maybe have been burned and before.
00:06:33
Ridley Barron
I don't think it's an, it's, I don't think it's an exaggeration, at least my experience and experience of most of the people I'm around in ministry.
00:06:33
Dan Sanchez
But I find that's a tough thing.
00:06:40
Ridley Barron
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we get challenged on stuff almost on a weekly basis. whether it's why we made a certain decision or how we preached a certain text of scripture or who we put in charge of something.
00:06:56
Ridley Barron
so I, I think a strong, capable leader is going to have to have the confidence that God is leading him in order to stand up to that kind of pressure.
00:07:07
Ridley Barron
But again, on the other side of it, he also has to be open enough to listen to that because some of it is legitimately asked, you know, why, why did you allow this person to do
Communication with Church Leaders
00:07:17
Ridley Barron
this? Or where did you get that particular passage of scripture? And, and, you know, how did you get to that conclusion?
00:07:24
Ridley Barron
I've had people walk up to me after church on a Sunday morning and say, hey, you said something that I have questions about. Well, my response as a leader has got to be, okay, I'm going to trust in God for direction, but I'm going to open my heart to correction from you.
00:07:39
Dan Sanchez
If somebody had a question or correction or just wanted to bring it up, what's usually the best format to do it with? I mean, do you want them to email Barbara?
00:07:46
Ridley Barron
Okay.
00:07:48
Dan Sanchez
I'm sure they don't just shoot you a text. Like, how do you how do you prefer feedback?
00:07:52
Ridley Barron
Well, okay.
00:07:52
Dan Sanchez
Since people are listening to this and now wondering.
00:07:53
Ridley Barron
First of all, first of all, that's exactly what most of them do.
00:07:54
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:07:57
Ridley Barron
They will shoot you a text, which is really not the best way to typically to handle that.
00:07:58
Dan Sanchez
yeah no
00:08:02
Ridley Barron
And even worse than that, and this is the one everybody wants to do. We have three worship services on Sunday morning. They want to come up to me in between services and have a lengthy conversation.
00:08:11
Ridley Barron
And I tell people don't even come up and tell me things that need to be announced between services because my brain is too occupied with what I'm doing to really even think about it.
00:08:11
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:20
Ridley Barron
I would say, Short term, the best thing to do is to send an email and say, hey, here's what i'd I would like to talk to you about, have some questions about.
00:08:31
Ridley Barron
If you want to set up a phone call with a pastor and have conversations with him, I think that's great. If it's something that's really, really deep, really, really involved and can't be handled in a 10 to 15 minute phone conversation, then set up a meeting face to face. But Never, ever try to handle those things by text because things can be misconstrued.
00:08:50
Ridley Barron
The tone of the text can be misunderstood. And for me, it drives me crazy that I can have a five minute conversation with somebody and answer their questions.
00:09:00
Ridley Barron
And instead, they want to turn it into a 20 minute text exchange because you have to text, respond, text, respond, those kinds of things.
00:09:04
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:09:08
Dan Sanchez
Sometimes the things that people want to bring up are like deeply emotional. And I'm like, anytime your heart's getting troubled over something, that's a tell that it at least needs to be a phone call if not in person.
00:09:12
Ridley Barron
hmm.
Balancing Spiritual Practices and Life
00:09:18
Ridley Barron
Yeah, exactly.
00:09:18
Dan Sanchez
It's like Crucial Conversations 101. Never put it in writing because you can never control the tone.
00:09:21
Ridley Barron
Right. Right. Yeah, and it's a it's a dangerous thing when you listen to scripture sometimes because we listen with such personal emotion attached to it.
00:09:34
Ridley Barron
And it it could be it can be based off of past it hurts, past experiences, experiences.
00:09:40
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:41
Ridley Barron
Sadly, a lot of bad past teaching. You know, you grow up in in a, no better way to put it than just to say an incorrect theology that you had as a kid for 10, 15 years.
00:09:53
Ridley Barron
It's hard to undo that in one or two sermons. So you have to, when you listen, listen objectively as you can and not let your bias predetermine what you're hearing.
00:10:08
Dan Sanchez
Another thing you said in the sermon was that we need to really think about how we're spending our time when it comes to working on our heart. And you used use a number of comparisons. Like how often do you spend time about on work? How often do you spend time on Netflix? Like you threw out a bunch of different examples. so And part of me was like, I know where you're coming with this, but at the same time, it could almost be misconstrued. Like, do I need to be spending the amount of time I spend at work working on my heart?
00:10:37
Dan Sanchez
versus I'm like, mean, that's at least 40 hours.
00:10:41
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:10:41
Dan Sanchez
Is that how much time I need to be spending on my, my work or my heart or versus.
00:10:44
Ridley Barron
Great question. Yes. Great question. Yeah. And the answer obviously is no. There's, i mean, man, wouldn't it be great if all you had to do in life was just sit and study the word and make an income or whatever, you know, doing all those things.
00:10:54
Dan Sanchez
Be a monk. Yeah.
00:10:56
Ridley Barron
But realistically, what we're looking at here is not equal proportions, but there's balance to it. That one does not consume your life so much so that other things, and not just the study of the word, but fellowship with other Christians, prayer, all those things.
Pastures: Rest vs. Training
00:11:11
Ridley Barron
that everything has its place in your life and that life, that place in your life is protected so that other things don't encroach on and eventually eliminate your ability to do those things.
00:11:23
Ridley Barron
and think I think I said this in the sermons because I always reference sports just because that's a world I came out of. I love sports. I think sports are amazing for kids. They teach great characteristics, great qualities, and of course, keep kids in great shape, you know, keep them out of trouble many times.
00:11:40
Ridley Barron
But if your child – well, right now I've got one kid that I'm working with that plays baseball. And this kid's playing on two baseball teams and getting ready for football season right now.
00:11:50
Ridley Barron
And I said, how how are you doing all this?
00:11:51
Dan Sanchez
Holy cow.
00:11:52
Ridley Barron
How can you even possibly manage all that? He goes, oh, I don't know. He said, I get finished one, go home sit down for 15 minutes and rest and go to the next. And I'm like, that's just not healthy. You know?
00:12:04
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:12:04
Ridley Barron
So –
00:12:04
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:12:06
Dan Sanchez
One of the things you talked about in the sermon was that God uses pastures as training grounds. I really liked it painted in because pastures sometimes are like places of rest, but clearly in David's story, this is not a place of rest. This is just humble beginnings.
00:12:19
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:12:19
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:12:20
Dan Sanchez
And it reminded me of a book that's kind of like a classic in Christian leadership circles called The Making of a Leader by Robert Clinton. You heard of this one before?
00:12:28
Ridley Barron
I have heard of that. Never read it, but I have heard of
00:12:31
Dan Sanchez
it's a, he makes a claim that like everybody goes through five different categories of a leader. Most like finish off at three, some will go to four and five, but he has this like after sovereign foundation, just kind of like your childhood.
00:12:42
Dan Sanchez
Like every leader goes through a central theme of going into these places that kind of like this pasture land where things are tested and refined before you can really move on to great maturity.
00:12:52
Ridley Barron
Right. Yeah.
00:12:54
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. And he says, like, these three things are going to be tested in this place that I thought was relevant to this place. It's like, what do you doing that what do you do in the training grounds while you're waiting or preparing? And I'm like, huh? Like, he talks about this in the making of a leader. He's like, your integrity, your faith, and your character are the three things that get checked all the time and only strengthened. Or or you fail and you have to stay into that level leadership. Like, what do you call a level two leader?
00:13:17
Ridley Barron
right
00:13:19
Dan Sanchez
And I'm like, that's pretty much what happened to David.
00:13:19
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:13:22
Dan Sanchez
Just being faithful with the sheep.
00:13:22
Ridley Barron
here It really is. and you're right. For most of us, when we first hear the word pasture, we think peace, calm, these beautiful landscapes that we have seen in drawings and pictures and stuff like that.
00:13:33
Ridley Barron
But the truth is for for David, the way he thought of the pasture, the where he was, it was a battleground sometimes even. Sometimes it was wrestling with predators that were coming after a sheep.
00:13:45
Ridley Barron
Sometimes it was wrestling with dumb sheep who didn't pay attention to him and he had to go rescue them. And I imagine that he probably even had to wrestle with some of his own insecurities and demons in that point. I mean, let's be reminded that David's dad called him a runt and he was the baby of of eight brothers.
00:13:55
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, his family.
00:14:01
Ridley Barron
I mean, we all know what that's like when you've got older siblings. Even back in that day and age, they would have been. sibling animosity and those kinds of things to deal with. So in, in very real sense, David was working on the kind of man he would be as a leader in the way he addressed all of those different periods in the pasture.
00:14:22
Dan Sanchez
And it's almost like God could have picked somebody else, but had to pick somebody who remained faithful in the little things before he was ready for the big things. And even then he wasn't still ready, even though he'd been faithful in the big little things.
00:14:34
Dan Sanchez
It's not like God's got to drag him through the freaking mud and get him ready for the real thing, you know, with Saul and everything.
00:14:39
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:14:41
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, my goodness, this guy can't catch a break.
00:14:42
Ridley Barron
Yeah. yeah I
God's Use of Hardship for Growth
00:14:45
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:14:45
Ridley Barron
don't know that Jesus had him in mind when he said it, but you you can see how Jesus would have pointed to somebody like David when he said, for him who has been faithful in little, he will he will be given much.
00:14:57
Ridley Barron
you know David was faithful with the little stuff. Being a shepherd was low on the totem pole. It was not what people aspired to be. It was where people and Sadly, where many people started out and never went any further, that was just who they were in life.
00:15:12
Ridley Barron
But for David, he was faithful in the little things. He took care of his responsibilities. Even when his dad asked him to be the Uber deliverer of food to his his brothers out at the the battlefield, he did it and he did it with integrity.
00:15:25
Ridley Barron
And because of that, God knew that he could depend on him to be the leader of his people and hang on to that spirit of humility that was so appealing.
00:15:35
Dan Sanchez
Now, 1 Samuel isn't without, it's kind of like odd things. It makes you turn your head a little bit when you actually consider what's going on and be like, wait, what? Like, what just happened? How is that even possible? So a few of those things I want to bring up is right in the beginning, right in the beginning, we have this little story from Hannah.
00:15:52
Dan Sanchez
And she's praying and God does a miracle for her. But if you go back to the beginning, the reason why she was in anguish and the reason why she had to play pray in the beginning is because God decided to close her womb. I'm like, God caused the thing that was causing her
Saul's Prophesying and Its Significance
00:16:08
Dan Sanchez
hardship, which I find, I'm like, we need to pause and rest on that one.
00:16:08
Ridley Barron
Yep. Yep.
00:16:12
Dan Sanchez
So you're like, wait a second. So God does hard things to us? Seems like it's so. What's your take on that?
00:16:19
Ridley Barron
Absolutely. not Not to borrow from the sermon too far on Sunday, but to me, what Hannah went through in that whole period of mourning, not having a you know a child, of praying, of crying out, those kinds of things, that was her own pasture.
00:16:34
Ridley Barron
It was a place where God was using this to test test her character, to develop who she would be as a person, and maybe even to check and see, okay, how much faith are you going to have? So he intentionally put that in her life.
00:16:46
Ridley Barron
She was faithful. She kept crying out. and God opened her womb and gave her not only a child, but a child who would eventually serve him as one of the greatest judges and prophets of his time.
00:16:57
Dan Sanchez
The next one that caught my attention was was two two parts, but it happened in two very different ways, was Saul prophesying.
00:17:06
Ridley Barron
Hmm.
00:17:07
Dan Sanchez
It was a sign that God was with him. Yet, like, we don't really see this a lot in the Old Testament where God's will is on somebody and they just start prophesying.
00:17:09
Ridley Barron
Hmm.
00:17:14
Dan Sanchez
It's kind of unique to 1 Samuel. Like, this didn't happen in the Judges that I can recall.
00:17:17
Ridley Barron
right yeah
00:17:18
Dan Sanchez
And it doesn't happen really later on either. That, like, they get overcome with this. It almost, like, it almost, to me, it was almost like they're, like, speaking in tongues, like, uncontrollably and are, like, like in like convulsing or something like that.
00:17:29
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:17:31
Dan Sanchez
It almost seems like this uncontrollable thing where they stand can't stop talking. Yeah. What the heck is that? And how do you think that went down? Like, do you think they're like predicting the future right there, proclaiming God's glory? Like, what do you think Paul's, Saul's doing on the front side? And then on the backside, I'll ask about in a second, what he did in the second time.
00:17:48
Ridley Barron
It is really one of those hard to understand passages of scripture. I think scholars really don't agree on what necessarily went down. I think. Some, like you said, would would land in the camp of suddenly Saul is predicting the future.
00:18:03
Ridley Barron
i tend to fall more in the theory that what they meant by prophesying wasn't necessarily this is what God's going to do and these are the events going to happen, but more about if if Israel doesn't change its heart, this is how we're going to pay you the consequences.
00:18:21
Ridley Barron
These are the results we're going to see.
00:18:21
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:23
Ridley Barron
And keep in mind, too, that what happened with sal as it did with every other Old Testament character, was that the Spirit of God came and left. He didn't dwell in people like he does now in the New Testament.
00:18:34
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:18:36
Ridley Barron
In fact, the first case where we have the Spirit coming on someone and dwelling with them for the remainder of their life is with David at the anointing to be king. So every other character that we see in the Bible, there was you know the presence of the spirit that would be drawn back and then given again when something was needed.
00:18:54
Ridley Barron
And if if I remember correctly, doesn't Saul get twice get called in a season of prophesying with the prophets?
00:19:01
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, I'll talk about that one in a second because the other one's different.
00:19:05
Ridley Barron
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:07
Ridley Barron
So to me, go ahead.
00:19:07
Dan Sanchez
That first time, go ahead.
00:19:08
Ridley Barron
go ahead
00:19:11
Dan Sanchez
That first time, almost wonder if it's like not prophecy as in future prediction, but it's actually, but some people label this prophecy in the charismatic community, they call it a word of knowledge.
00:19:21
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:19:21
Dan Sanchez
I don't know where they got that from, but that's what they call it.
00:19:22
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:19:23
Dan Sanchez
they You could call it discernment, but it's almost like you're next to someone and you see something that about them or that happened to them or will happen to them that you have no natural recourse for knowing.
00:19:37
Dan Sanchez
And it's happened to me from other people. I've had little instances in my life where I'm praying for someone and I i get an impression on something and then I say it and they're like, holy cow, how'd you know that?
00:19:46
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:19:47
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, I don't know.
00:19:48
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:19:48
Dan Sanchez
It just popped in my head.
00:19:50
Ridley Barron
Mm-hmm.
00:19:50
Dan Sanchez
But in charismatic circles, we call that a word of knowledge. And sometimes I wonder if that's what was going on. Like he's saying things about people around him. They're like, my gosh, is Saul a prophet?
00:19:57
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:19:58
Dan Sanchez
Like he keeps dropping all these bombs on us.
00:20:01
Ridley Barron
Yep. One thing we know to be true about this is that this was not an out of the ordinary experience during that time period, because if it had, it would have drawn much more attention than it did.
00:20:01
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:20:11
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:20:12
Ridley Barron
And the attention that did come to it wasn't because Saul was prophesying. It was because it was Saul that was prophesying rather good rather than the normal prophets.
00:20:22
Ridley Barron
Yeah. The fact that prophesying was going on apparently was something that they had seen and experienced enough there that it was not out of the norm.
00:20:30
Dan Sanchez
Now, the second time it happens to Saul is in very different circumstances. And this is after he has his anointing kind of stripped away from by Samuel.
00:20:39
Ridley Barron
honey
00:20:40
Dan Sanchez
And he's out there prophesying. But this time he stripped all his clothes like the guy's butt naked, laying on the floor prophesying, which is just kind of a weird combo because he could have pulled like God could have pulled the Nebuchadnezzar and just made him mad, walking like naked or something like that.
00:20:48
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:20:50
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:20:56
Dan Sanchez
But no, like he's prophesying.
00:20:56
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:21:00
Dan Sanchez
naked, which is totally shameful for any day and age, but certainly is back then too.
00:21:01
Ridley Barron
who
00:21:06
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:21:06
Dan Sanchez
like ha Like, is this just kind of an oddity that we're just kind of like, oh, God figured out a creative way embarrass him, I guess.
00:21:11
Ridley Barron
yeah I guess because I mean, not only would this have been weird and and abnormal for anybody, this is the king. I mean, to see the king butt naked was absolutely
00:21:19
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:21:22
Ridley Barron
would have made anybody incredulous because of the the reality of that happening, even if he wasn't prophesying. But for him to be doing both at the same time was just very well out of the norm. I don't know the purpose of it other than just to kind of almost to demonstrate, you know, Saul's not going to be around much longer.
00:21:39
Dan Sanchez
God's really creative. There's a lot of one-off. I mean, there's certainly a lot of repetition of how God shows up and does things, but there is certainly a lot of times where God just does something really weird. And it's literally like one time in the Bible, this thing happens, which I'm pretty sure is the only time this particular combo happens
God's Unpredictable Actions
00:21:54
Dan Sanchez
in the Bible.
00:21:54
Dan Sanchez
Right.
00:21:55
Ridley Barron
yeah And I'm very, I can't count the number of times in reading scripture that I go, ooh, didn't see that coming.
00:21:56
Dan Sanchez
right
00:22:01
Ridley Barron
You just, you can't, you can't predict that God's going to do what he does. I think he does it intentionally because if he worked by this, if he had a handbook of this is how God works, then we would always be trying to predict and even manipulate what we're going to see happening.
00:22:17
Ridley Barron
And God says, I won i won't do that.
00:22:20
Dan Sanchez
now maybe it's under god's mercy that he doesn't do things the same way it always reminds me of like yeah i think c.s lewis wrote that in his second book like god never shows up the same way twice which if you think about it you're like well the walls of jericho how often does that happen only once how about that other battle where the sun holds still in the sky that only happened one time god part in the sea well that one actually happened twice but i'll take it
00:22:23
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:22:28
Ridley Barron
herh
00:22:34
Ridley Barron
Yep.
00:22:44
Ridley Barron
Yeah. And you know, and it goes exactly what I was just saying there, because i hear people many times who will pray stuff like, God, we really need this to happen today. So if you can just let the sun stay in the sky, well, God's not going to do it again.
00:22:59
Ridley Barron
He doesn't want to do that again. He's going to do something different. So quit trying to force God to work inside the realm of where you think he needs to work and allow God to choose how he wants to bless or curse whatever he needs to bless or curse.
00:23:15
Dan Sanchez
So the last thing that always makes me smile every time I read this in 1 Samuel is the story of God, no, David faking insanity because his life's in danger.
00:23:22
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:23:24
Dan Sanchez
And he's like, the best way out of this one is to act like an idiot, drool and act like a madman.
00:23:31
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:23:31
Dan Sanchez
But it's another one of those instances where like it's hard to say that God endorsed it because there's no clear indicator here.
00:23:38
Ridley Barron
right yeah yeah well is it okay because we never actually just like you said god never endorsed it and we never hear on the other end that god said
00:23:38
Dan Sanchez
But like, essentially, David lies. And it's okay.
00:23:52
Ridley Barron
way to go, David. That was a good idea. it's almost like it's recorded by the person who wrote these stories and, and it's just recorded for historical purposes, not necessarily to establish a pattern for how God wants things done.
00:24:03
Dan Sanchez
That's a point.
00:24:07
Dan Sanchez
point
00:24:07
Ridley Barron
I actually have a friend who years ago had his house broken into, him and his wife, and guy was standing over the bed. and He got up and started and dancing on the bed like a monkey and pretended like he was foaming the mouth, and guy ran off scared.
00:24:19
Ridley Barron
So apparently it's a pretty good technique. It works real well.
00:24:23
Ridley Barron
I don't know that I would think of it or try it, but it worked well for David and seemed to manage to keep him safe for a short, brief time. In fact, if anything, I would probably argue that God's probably looking at David going and going, David, come on,
Why God Allowed Saul to be King
00:24:35
Ridley Barron
dude. Don't you know by now that you just need to ask me and I will protect you and you don't have to bully stunts?
00:24:41
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, that's good point.
00:24:44
Dan Sanchez
Now, we've covered all the the fun things. I got more for next week because, again, Samuel and Second Samuel are loaded with all kinds of fun stories.
00:24:51
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:24:52
Dan Sanchez
And I'm i'm looking forward to some of next weeks.
00:24:52
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yes.
00:24:54
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, come on, but... I still have to finish off what Selah says, but she asked a good ones at this week, as she usually does.
00:24:58
Ridley Barron
Yes.
00:25:02
Dan Sanchez
And her question, which caught me off guard when she said it at the our life group, because i I'm like, usually I have a pretty quick answer this time. I'm like, I don't know. i had to go search this one out later.
00:25:13
Dan Sanchez
Why did God choose Saul if he knew he would be such a bad king?
00:25:19
Ridley Barron
So this is going to be totally 100% Ridley's opinion. I don't i't have necessarily a way of backing this up. But I almost wonder, because I've asked the same question myself, if God was saying, okay, you guys want a king. I'm supposed to be your king. Kings are nothing but trouble. So let me start you off with one that's going to make you appreciate the fact that you you really didn't want this to begin with.
00:25:39
Dan Sanchez
Mm-hmm.
00:25:39
Ridley Barron
That this is what a human being is going to do, and this is how a human being is going to treat you. And you were much better off just letting me lead you guys.
00:25:48
Dan Sanchez
funny i took it as a i'll get you a king but gonna have to go through a bad one before you get to a good one because uh the only kind of king that's going to be any good is going to be one that's put through the trial and test and i think i got someone in the making for that but in order to make that happen we're gonna have to set this guy up as a king and then we'll drag david through the mud to actually prepare him to be a real king yeah
00:25:53
Ridley Barron
yeah
00:26:09
Ridley Barron
yeah I meant to go back and look at this, and this is this is an area probably where I need to study a little bit more, but I want to say that the language that's there and in that story of selecting David is such that God makes it sound like
00:26:12
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:26:24
Ridley Barron
I kind of let you have Saul, but David's my man. David is the one I choose. not that Not that Samuel picks Saul on his own, but I think he just kind of gave Samuel a little bit more leeway to to pick based on how tall he was and how good looking he was.
00:26:40
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:26:41
Ridley Barron
And God said, OK, if that's the guy you want, that's who we're going go with. But when it came to David, very clearly, God said, this is my man. You're not going to make a mistake again. We're going to pick the guy that's going to do the right thing and has the right heart.
Closing Thoughts on David
00:26:53
Ridley Barron
So.
00:26:55
Dan Sanchez
It's hard. It could have been. Saul could have been the choice considering it says that the Lord had a regret, a deep level of regret making him king.
00:27:04
Ridley Barron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:05
Dan Sanchez
Which I'm like, I don't recall him having a level regret like that since before, just before Noah. Before he wiped out the whole, almost the whole human population.
00:27:13
Ridley Barron
Yeah. yeah Right.
00:27:16
Dan Sanchez
It's a lot.
00:27:16
Ridley Barron
Well, and David's such a rich character. We actually, i think six different sermons we're about to have, counting last week, related to David. We're going to be dealing with a couple of his Psalms.
00:27:29
Ridley Barron
You can't go through 1 Samuel and not do something based on David and Goliath. So we'll be hitting that this week. We're going to be talking about David's choice at the end of his life to take a census and and why God did not want that, why he didn't allow it.
00:27:45
Ridley Barron
So there's a lot of good lessons from David's life. And i mean, as it should be, I mean, David is described more than one place in scripture as being a man after God's own heart. there's much to learn from his life and from both the good and bad choices he made in his life.
00:28:00
Dan Sanchez
It's certainly an exciting story and one that's full of lessons. And I love stories because I actually like to read biographies more than anything because it's hard to remember all the nonfiction books you read.
00:28:08
Ridley Barron
Mm hmm.
00:28:11
Dan Sanchez
In fact, if you can remember like one or two things, that's pretty good out of a whole book full of lessons. But generally when you hear a story, you kind of remember most of that story.
00:28:21
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:28:22
Dan Sanchez
And I think that's why God put so many of these in a story format. I mean, he's got a lot of straightforward, do this, not that kind of stuff in there too.
00:28:29
Ridley Barron
Right.
00:28:29
Dan Sanchez
But the stories are easier to stick to and easier for us to remember and actually apply the lessons through almost subconsciously because of the stories and the warnings and the encouragements in them.
00:28:32
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:28:37
Ridley Barron
Yeah.
00:28:41
Dan Sanchez
So Redley, thank you for joining me this week. And i'm looking forward to diving into the rest of 1 Samuel next week.