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Now Entering The Pseudoarchaeology Podcast with Dr. Andrew Kinkella - Ep 159
3k Plays1 year ago
On this episode of ALiRP, Carlton is joined by the host of the Pseudo-Archaeology Podcast: Dr. Andrew Kinkella. They talk about Dr. Kinkella’s graduate work in underwater archaeology in Maya Cenotes, the Pseudo-Archaeology Podcast, and science communication.
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Transcripts
For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/ruins/159
Links
- The Pseudo-Archaeology Podcast
- Kinkella Teaches Archaeology YouTube Channel
Literature Recommendations
- Michael Coe and Stephen Houston “The Maya”
- Ken Feder “Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology”
- Andrew Kinkella “Archaeology is Awesome!”
Guest Contact
- Dr. Kinkella’s Faculty Profile Page
Contact
- Email: [email protected]
- Instagram: @alifeinruinspodcast
- Store: https://www.redbubble.com/people/alifeinruins/shop
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Situation
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to episode 159 of a life ruins podcast, where we investigate the careers and research of those living life ruin. Today, it's just me, no Connor and David, they're off doing something else. They're about to actually start living together here shortly. So David is packing up the bus and getting ready to move to Wyoming to live in Connor's front porch in the good old ethnosynology bus.
Meet Dr. Andrew Kinkela
00:00:26
Speaker
But today we have fellow APN host, Dr. Andrew Kinkela from the pseudo archeology podcast here at this today.
00:00:35
Speaker
Andrew, how are you doing this afternoon, man? What's up? It's so nice to be here, man. You know, it's just you and I now, and I think maybe you should just drop those other two guys, man, and just the two of us can rule the APN, you know?
00:00:50
Speaker
And now that we got rid of the dirt, now it's just sky's the limit. And we don't even need Chris. We'll just it's just you and me, man. We should we should go for it anyway. It's it's so good to be here.
Podcast Dynamics and Personal Interests
00:01:01
Speaker
And it's so nice to talk to a fellow podcaster, you know, because in our world, it's like, I'll hear your show or you'll hear my show, you know. And the same is true for the other podcasters on the APN. But like,
00:01:17
Speaker
None of us really know each other. None of us interact almost at all. I haven't even met everyone on the CRM podcast. I've heard their voice 100 times, but I've never met them in person. It's so nice to meet you, although be it over the magic of Zencaster, it's nice to just hang out and talk a little bit.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, man. Absolutely. I think I've only met, I'm met the CRM guys before we even had a podcast. So I think we met up with Chris at SA Albuquerque, right? Just to like sign paperwork before we even recorded our first show. So we kind of got to meet them through that whole debacle. And our first episode with them is talking about the Me Too movement and me, Connor David. Like we were so out of our depth and no one wants to hear a group of six predominantly white men talk about anything as it relates to women in the field of archeology. So we just had a mouse knot. Really?
00:02:07
Speaker
You know, it was crazy. Who would have thought? And then, uh, yeah, I've happened to meet the dirt podcast and personally once or twice, and then Jessica Yacinto from heritage voices. I'd rather than that man. Yeah. It's great to add to the list of folks that we know. In fact, like, cause I listened to your show when it started coming back up and then I listened it in the car with my
Academic and Teaching Career
00:02:28
Speaker
mom once. And I'm pretty sure you're her favorite podcast. Yes.
00:02:32
Speaker
She loves just like how, like 30 minutes and how fun it is and like, and it's just like topics in archeology that she's like familiar with, you know, as she's like, what's wrong with Indiana Jones and the crystal skull? And I'm like, well, Kobe, let me explain why this is absolute bullshit. Dr. Kinkel explain it to you.
00:02:48
Speaker
And and I'll do it with a gentle touch, you know, because I mean, I love Indiana Jones, but what was fun about that one is I actually was a double major in archaeology and film so I can kind of really go deep on the film side of things and be like, look, you know, there's real problems with this movie from this side, just in terms of a fully functioning narrative. It's just kind of long and boring and moves real slow. You know, so anyway, man, I'm so glad that your mom that she likes me best and
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like Bob Kelly is her favorite archeologist. So I mean, like I'm kind of used to like other people taking the spotlight away from her from her favorite child. But I was curious about that because you have a BA in anthropology and film studies from UC Santa Barbara, but you also have an MA in anthro and a minor in theater from California State University. The CSU I'm familiar with is Colorado State. So is it California State University? It's California State University. So that's Northridge. It's in the valley area of Los Angeles.
00:03:46
Speaker
Gotcha. And then your PhD in Anthro from within my archaeology focus, you see a river set. So you're like a California boy, like through and through, never got out. I don't want to know the rest of the world. This is California, man. Isn't it the best place? I mean, that's what Jim Morrison says.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, I took the world's slowest trip down the California coast, so I'm originally from the Bay Area. And then I went to like Santa Barbara, then went a little lower and I went to the LA area and then ultimately to Riverside. So yeah, I have pretty much kind of done a tour of California throughout my life. And I've been very fortunate in terms of just the people I've met and who I've worked with and all that kind of good stuff. So I got no complaints.
00:04:29
Speaker
Sweet, man. And you're currently a professor of archaeology at what the hell is this place? It's a exactly at what the hell is this place? It has a lot of it's like it's a really long, you know, abbreviation here. But no, no, no, no. That'll mess you up. Currently, I'm the full time archaeology professor at Moorpark College, which is in Southern California.
00:04:51
Speaker
It's part of the Ventura County Community College District, which is super long and will mess you up. So, yeah, it's in terms of the area in California, it's near Simi Valley or you could say about halfway between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I've been there, man, next year will be 20 years. So crazy. So.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah. I've always enjoyed the community college system. I'm a community, I didn't graduate, I transferred out once I realized they didn't have an anthro program in their historic preservation. They wouldn't have kept me there another year. But like, I mean, shit, I went to Northern Virginia Community College and at that time, second lady, Jill Biden was my English teacher. Oh my God. And Andrea, like, yeah, like, you know, she was, she was teaching community college English when she was the vice president's partner. Like I've always loved the community college system. And like, I, the guy that got me into anthropology,
00:05:40
Speaker
You know, he was also the zoarchaeologist at Catholic University in D.C. and then, like, taught on the side at archaeology at the community college. And he always loved teaching community college classes over the Catholic stuff because he said he had way more freedom, he had to interact more closely with students, and he kind of got to do, like, a lot more in the state.
00:05:59
Speaker
than he was able to in DC. Yeah, it really is the dream gig, I think. I think it's what college should be and what, unfortunately, a lot of four-year worlds aren't so much anymore, meaning that it's really collaborative, it's really relaxed.
00:06:15
Speaker
best closest friends in terms of the fellow faculty are a chemist and a theater person. So I get to know all kinds of people from all different walks of academic life. And that part, I really treasure that. It's really just fun. I don't want to talk about Anthro all day. I want to know, oh, wow, your chemistry stuff. That's interesting. So I really enjoy that. I enjoy the students. It is, in terms of teaching, it's five and five.
00:06:43
Speaker
Right. So I thought four four was like a full load, but now five five five five plus I do six and six because baby needs new shoes. You know what I mean? So that's a little extra extra cash on the side. So it's I mean, you are teaching all the time. You're doing something like just about every day, you know, and some days, man, doing three in a row can be really taxing, you know, teaching three classes back to back on a day.
00:07:12
Speaker
At the end of that third class, you're just kind of like, boy, I feel kind of loopy. You know, it's like doing three comedy shows back to back. It's tiring. I can't even sort of these all archaeology classes or do you have to do like some gen eds like public speaking here and there? No, it's all going to be anthro stuff. But in terms of what the department needs and that kind of stuff, since I'm the archaeologist, a typical semester would be like,
00:07:36
Speaker
two archeologies, one specialty class like Mysteries in the Ancient Maya or something like that. One, I have this section of Saturday classes where it's all day Saturday and we learn real archaeological techniques. So one of those and then one maybe fill in the blank like bio-anthro or cultural anthro or something like that, where there might not be quite enough archeology stuff to do. So I'll have to dip out to the other side just for a bit. OK. Yeah. But so generally the same students like this is a two year kind of associates level.
California Archaeology and Field Schools
00:08:04
Speaker
It is.
00:08:05
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So that's that world. But the big class is even an intro to archaeology, but even something like a bioanthro or whatever. I mean, you get there's a ton of non-majors, you know, which I really like. I like being the hook, you know, like, hey, come try out this archaeology stuff. It's pretty fun. Sweet. I know. So like your students also go to field school through this so they can go into the CRM market without
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah. And I've always found those students like we, when I worked at Fort Lewis College, our crew chief was a current student in the program, but he had his associates from like a community college in New Mexico and had been working CRM for like six years. And this kid who recently graduated with his bachelor's, but like he knew more about the Southwestern Pueblo one, two stuff than like me and Jesse tune. Like we were students were asking us like, Hey, what's this pottery? And we're like,
00:08:54
Speaker
no fucking clue, Kagan, what is this pottery? And just like, and those kids are so knowledgeable. It's like, if you want to do sociology, go to a community college and just get that field school out of the way. Yes. And just that, that focus, you know, and you really can learn a lot in that little tiny world. And that's what focus gets you. Cause you know, it's very difficult in the four year world. It's difficult for anyone, but you kind of go through it and you're like, I don't know, this is all pretty interesting. And you kind of get a general feeling for things, which is fine, but
00:09:22
Speaker
If you want a job later, it's really great to get that specialty knowledge on local archaeology, wherever it is that you may live, you know, because that's, that's where the gigs are, you know? Right. And California is like pretty insular, like archaeology. Like there's, it's like a whole different world, even within like Western archaeology. It's like, if you want to do California based art, you have to go to like a California school almost.
00:09:49
Speaker
It is. Although, recently in terms of jobs, the CRM firms are suffering so bad, they'll take anyone who has experience, they are dying for people. But you're right in terms of the cultural knowledge, it's like you cross over the Sierra Nevadas and then it's its own show. Gotcha. Well, sweet man. Now, when you were doing your bachelor's at Santa Barbara, when did you finish that degree?
00:10:16
Speaker
So I finished that in 95. I started as an 18 year old at Santa Barbara in the fall of 1990, you know, back in the Cobain days and was there through the mid 90s. And then I went to Northridge, right like 98, 99 right in there. And then I went to Riverside and finally finished there in 2009, I believe. But throughout that time, I would just go to Belize in the summers, the first
00:10:43
Speaker
year I did that was in 1993. And then it was almost every summer after that I'd go for sometimes as long as four months. Gotcha. Because I was curious as like my PhD advisor, Dr. Douglas Banforth, got his PhD from UC Santa Barbara. But I think in like 88 or 89 under joke, I'm so like you just
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, you just missed him, I guess. Yeah, I just know his name, but Mike Jockem, I worked with a bunch, you know, and I actually went to Germany with him. Oh, sure. Yeah, Jockem. That's right. So, like, I'm really fascinated by the work you've done in Belize, and, like, what caught me onto it was your episode, 114 of the pseudo-archaeology podcast, just titled The Maya Cenotes, because I had no idea.
00:11:28
Speaker
Like just from listening to your podcast, you know, you started how many episodes have you recorded at this point? Like almost what has you rebooted? I think the first episode was 94 was the reboot and it's up towards 117 or something like that. So whatever it's 20 and 23 episodes. I don't know whatever
Underwater Archaeology Adventures
00:11:45
Speaker
it is.
00:11:45
Speaker
And you come out biweekly, so every other week, an episode drops on a Wednesday. And I've been following your podcast since it's come out, mostly since you started creeping up on Life in Ruins at our monthly meeting. We're like, who the fuck is this? Out of nowhere, you just popped up and you got this following, and you're wondering, David, we're just like,
00:12:04
Speaker
wait a minute it's taken us years to get to this point and here's King Killa just like crawling after us like sprinting not even crawling like what the fuck that's so funny that you notice that because i had my eyes laser focused on you guys i'm like okay these fools right up here i'm gonna catch them
00:12:24
Speaker
You know, and then it just started to go. But I have it in some ways easier because the pseudo archaeology podcast is very palatable to like a wide audience, you know, and that was one of the reasons I started it again, just because it had lamed dormant for years, like five years or something like that. And they still had a handful of people that would download it every month. And that's how that's why we started it again, because I was talking to Chris and he's like, we have this one, it's been sitting, nobody's done anything, but people still tune in. I'm like, dude,
00:12:54
Speaker
You know, like, look, I'll sit in the seat, you know, let's do this. There's an audience that wants this. So that first push of mine was sort of made possible by a very forgiving and wanting general public, you know, if that makes sense. So I had a little bit of a tailwind, you know.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah, but it was great. And so like, just because you take on these topics of just like, you know, what pseudo-arch y'all do, but they also talk about like pseudo-arch adjacent, like your story of the weird place in California where you brought your compass and your friends when you're like 12. And I just imagined it being like stranger things. Oh yeah, the mystery spot. It was exactly like Stranger Things. I was like, the mystery spot. I listened to it and I was like, what the fuck is this episode? But it was so fun.
00:13:41
Speaker
Those are so, so great. And I have a handful more. It's so funny when I do that show. I'm like, how many of these can I do from a story of mine when I was 12? And the answer is quite a few. So I would just remember these experiences. And in terms of my age, I am like the exact same age as the guys from Stranger Things, like like to the year.
00:14:03
Speaker
So when I watch that show, I'm like, oh, it's my mom's house. Oh, hey, my bike. I'm right in there. But you're you're correct. That place was like that. And one of the things that I try and do to make the show palatable is I have just fun with it. It's like light hearted. You know, I'm not here to be like, oh, it's so awful. What happens? You know, I'm like, look at this story. Isn't it funny? I think it's funny, you know, and and to have the audience just kind of come along on a light, a light romp.
00:14:32
Speaker
through the pseudo archeology world. So that's, that's what I shoot for, you know? Yeah. And they're so well versed, especially in a lot of the pseudo art stuff. And because, because you have that background of my archeology, which we'll get into the next segment and we'll delve into the archeology more. So you're like hitting on the crystal skulls.
00:14:48
Speaker
you're hitting on the like ancient astronauts and like coming at it with like this background. It'd be like if David Anderson did like a pseudo art, Paul, you just had that same background where you can be authorities. We're like, when me, David and Connor are trying to talk about something, we do have to do a bit of research because we're just kind of like no one, there's no pseudo art really as it relates to like paleo Indian or like maize farmers. Like granted, there's like salutran that we can all rant about, but
00:15:12
Speaker
nothing specific to like, let me talk about these Maya glyphs and how that's not a dude in a rocket ship. It's very specific. No, it helps. It helps. I try and angle it toward, I do try and angle it towards just like
00:15:27
Speaker
personal experiences I have where I try consciously for one segment to be like, all right, on one segment, I want to talk about how this relates to me or how I know a guy who did this thing or how I visited a place where I did see this personally. Because I think people like that first person narrative. But on the flip side, I have to do actually a decent part of background research too. I almost make
00:15:48
Speaker
I make like a little bullet point outline of what i'm gonna talk about you know before i start i take a single sheet of paper and i kind of put it in thirds and i'm like okay first there's gonna be this stuff and second third can be the stuff and it's because you know like both you and i now doing a solo show there is.
00:16:04
Speaker
As soon as you stop talking, it's quiet. You know, even with one other person, you can just keep going all day. But when you're by yourself, you have to have a bit of a figured out plan, you know, of where you're going to land and how you're going to end the show. You know, so I do depending on the show. Sometimes I can kind of wing it and know. But other ones, I really have to do some research.
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, fair enough. I mean, the two, maybe two or three, so the ones I did, I felt bad because the last one I did on planes, archeology, I was kind of like sick and super sniffly and like making gross throat noises. And all the emails that we had from people were like, that was the most fucking traumatizing episode I ever listened to. Like whatever's wrong with Carlton, make it stop. And I was like, I'm never doing this again. Cause I was just like,
00:16:47
Speaker
So planes, archeology, just people are not having it. I listen to that. And it was fine. F those people like it's fine because your stories were interesting. They were honest. I dug it, dude. So I mean, that stuff happens. And it's like, you know what? We have to put out content every other week. You guys, aren't you guys like every week or something? Every week we have to come up with something.
00:17:13
Speaker
So that's the thing. It's like, hey, look, it's Carlton on his deathbed because you have to do it. And so I I don't mind at all if that kind of stuff happens because it's part of the gig. It's like, dude, I had to do it. What am I supposed to do? Not be sick. I'm sick. You know, so I don't know. I had no problem with it. I thought it was great. Fair enough. Well, on that touching note, we'll be right back with a sort of 159. We'll be right back with Tim. We'll get into some archaeology in a sec.
00:17:41
Speaker
Welcome back to Episode 159. We're still here with Dr. Andrew Kinkella. One of the conversations that has sprouted this episode is my recent work with Professor Charles Beaker of underwater science at IU down in the Dominican Republic. Then your episode, which I mentioned during the last segment, on your dissertation work,
00:18:01
Speaker
where you were down in Belize every summer working on Maya cenotes and doing underwater archeology and some of the most rural backwater, no roads, trudging through the goddamn tropical forest with full scuba equipment and having to at times sleep outside. Your story of you got your hammock set up, you're zipped up,
00:18:24
Speaker
And then you're hearing like jaguars across the cenote. It's like, what? Oh, yes. The kind of Indiana Jones Mickey Mouse bullshit. I think the term Indiana Jones Mickey Mouse bullshit is really a great explanatory term for that. So, yeah, you know, it was a crazy idea that worked.
00:18:45
Speaker
If that makes sense, like I was so fortunate when I first went to grad school, I knew my good friend Lisa Lucero and Lisa has worked in Belize forever and ever. And we're just close friends and we work together really great. She had gotten this new project in the Valley of Peace area of Belize, which is sort of central Belize.
00:19:04
Speaker
And we were looking at the map of this place and there were like 25 cenotes in a line at the top of the map. So there was one cenote every like picture, like every one cenote every like half mile, like just in a long row because it had to do with there was like a geologic fault there. So you have these cenotes in a row. And I had just already taken scuba anyways. And I was just I've always been a water person. Like I'm really good at swimming. I was on the swim team. I was the lifeguard for a while, like all that kind of stuff. And I was like, Lisa,
00:19:33
Speaker
What if I do the cenotes for my master's thesis, you know, and she's like, yeah, that'd be great. And that next year I'm like, Lisa, what if I die of one of the cenotes? Wouldn't that be cool? And she's like, sure. And so she and I just planned out this like crazy Andrews going diving in a cenote in the middle of nowhere. And that's what we did. The first time I ever dove a cenote was in I believe it was 1998.
00:20:03
Speaker
It was me and one of the other students actually had her scuba diving certification had just gotten it. I only had maybe like 10 dives under my belt at the time or something like that, something crazy. But I will say I was very careful. I planned everything out like really slowly and carefully. And the dive ultimately worked. But the getting there was wild. I think it was it was something nuts like
00:20:30
Speaker
Six miles of walking with a backpack that has all your stuff like a heavy backpack that has like your Tent and all your water and all your equipment all your regular archaeology stuff and then on top of it you're carrying your BC and your regulator and your fins and then I remember just carrying my tank and
00:20:52
Speaker
across my back, you know, Atlas carrying the world style. And I remember that the air I breathed out of that tank was from New Mexico. We had filled the tanks in New Mexico, so I breathed New Mexico air as I dove the Cenotes and Belize for the very first time.
00:21:10
Speaker
Time out, time out, because my first question is like, where did you fill up the tanks every day? So did you like like truck down a bunch of pre-filled tanks from New Mexico? No. So this this project grew as the years went by. The first year was two tanks. That's it. That's all. So we only did two dives. Ultimately, we just the so the getting there because we had to like.
00:21:34
Speaker
Get to the cenotes and sort of map them in the first place you know we're in nowhere where we're taking machetes and just trying to get there. And then once you get there it's like okay we're gonna do a little archaeology we're gonna do a little bit of excavation you know and then okay andrew's gonna dive and then what we did me and anna.
00:21:55
Speaker
was her name, Anna Osterholz. She was my very great dive buddy. And we did one initial dive that we planned out to 60 feet. We were gonna look at these certain areas. We came up and then we had enough air. I remember, I think I'd used a little more air than her that we switched tanks and then did a second dive. Again, the second time to like, I think less that time 30 feet or something like that. So we didn't go down to the bottom of the Cenote. We didn't even know exactly how deep it was. It turned out the Cenote was 240 feet deep.
00:22:23
Speaker
So we only went to 60 feet. That's crazy. So like for everyone listening, like a cenote are these like freshwater pools and these like limestone environments, like Yucatan, Belize, Costa Rica, and like there's some in the Caribbean too, like it's the same limestone formations. I forget what they're called in the Dominican. They're cenotes, but they call them something
00:22:47
Speaker
different and whatever. But they're filled with fresh water, and they're extremely important for many of these archaeological and even modern cultures. That's where you get fresh water from in these environments. So I'm trying to think, a 60-foot dive. So you're going through all that air in less than 30 minutes to get that deep? Yeah, it was somewhere in there. I want to say it was maybe about 30 minutes or so. And it was half a tank, right? So it's not the whole, you know?
00:23:16
Speaker
But yeah, so Cenotes, you know, in terms of seeing them in your mind, they look like mini lakes. They're maybe like 200 feet across. A bigger one would be like three or 400 feet across would be pretty big. And they're very in-depth. The shallowest one I ever worked in was six feet deep. And again, the deepest was 240.
00:23:32
Speaker
And they have sheer sides. So even going down 60 feet, there's no place to really stand. You're you're just going sort of down the side wall, you know, of the subject, just sort of looking at stuff, looking for stuff. There were little niches, little crevices, little bits and pieces that stuck out. And on one of those little tiny shelves, it was small picture, like one foot by one foot. There was a little broken Maya potsherd. So.
00:23:57
Speaker
at least there was one. So on that very first dive, we found one Maya pot shirt, which is more than enough for proof of concept to say, Hey, the ancient Maya threw artifacts into this cenote. That's bonkers. And so like two tank dive, you have the whole things and your equipment. Like that's, that's a lot, right? Six miles into, into the tropical forest. Just do those two quick, like one and exploratory, like how deep does this go?
00:24:25
Speaker
We can't see the bottom. Maybe something's on the edge that we could see because we're not going to do the bottom of this. It's 240 feet deep. You're talking about like.
00:24:37
Speaker
You're going to need one of those two-tank packs. You're going to have to switch halfway through, and it's like a three-hour-long dive with a mandatory safety stop of at least 45 minutes at some point. That's like a plan. That's like a Nat Geo-invested project to get to the bottom. That's what we ultimately did years later.
00:24:56
Speaker
OK, explain. Let's go into it. All right. So I did that initial dive in 98 or
Challenges of Diving and Teaching
00:25:02
Speaker
whatever. And then every summer after, really all the way until 2008, I would do some version of that where I'd like dive a little more or I started to find that I could get a ton done with snorkeling because I'm a good swimmer. So I could hold my breath. I could go down like 20 feet. I could I could get a lot of like the initial survey stuff done just snorkeling. It was much easier to move through the jungle. Didn't have to carry all that crap.
00:25:25
Speaker
But in 2010?
00:25:29
Speaker
Basically, as the years went by, the story sounds pretty damn good, right? There's this guy out here working on the cenotes. He's diving. Nobody even knows really of these cenotes. And so Lisa ultimately applied for a National Geographic grant and they gave it to us. And we were able to hire a handful of National Geographic divers. And I got to go dive with them. And that was one of the absolute joys of my professional life, because those guys were so damn good that, like,
00:25:56
Speaker
They had nothing to prove. You know what I mean? They're not they're not there to not show you something or be secretive. They were like, come over here, Andrew, you know, because they knew I wasn't as good as them. Right. They're there to make me better. So I dove with them and then they went to town. So they had like they dove with Trimix rebreathers, all the, you know, super, super stuff. And on one of those dives, I remember going down to 100 feet and staying there.
00:26:26
Speaker
and then watching them and they had really big lights like all the stuff, right? And then watching them go all the way down further to the bottom of the cenote. And we actually found that there was a huge cave at the bottom of the cenote that went in into the mountain. So I watched them dive down, down, down, in and gone.
00:26:48
Speaker
And then I was just floating there at a hundred feet in a Maya cenote. And like I had my moment. I was like, man, I'm in the Maya underworld. Here I am in Shabbalba. Here it is. Welcome to Shabbalba, Andrew Kinkela. You know, and I just had that moment. And then I slowly like went back up. So yeah, as the years went on, we got more people on on the project, like very experienced divers that would help help me out, work with me.
00:27:17
Speaker
search some of the other Cenotes, I would kind of do some and they'd sort of do some, but it was excellent having people of that kind of caliber. It's just awesome to work with people like that. You learn so fast, you know, when you work with people like that. So that was really, really thrilling. That's incredible. So when I did that, this trip with Charles, like I only had six open water dives under my belt.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like we had like the four-week identity are just get certified. The two, when we went to sunset ponds out here, do some work, some of the, I have over a decade's worth of like archeological experience. So I'm down there trying to teach students how to do stuff, but like, you know, I'm floating as I'm writing on my fucking board. Like I have no control over my points at that point. The students are all trying to help me like just manage my under like scuba stuff while I'm trying to teach them how to measure. It was like this really funny,
00:28:05
Speaker
like reversal of like, I am out of my element. I can know as much about archeology down here as possible without that extra layer of like, I can't help them if I can't not be doing backflips trying to show them how to do simple shit. What's so funny is in my early days, right after I did that initial dive in the Cenotes in 98, I think it was the next summer I worked with Charlie Beaker, too. And I was you. Right. And it was on.
00:28:31
Speaker
I totally was. And it was on a shipwreck project. But the story was just the same. I came down there to the shipwreck project thinking like, I'll be somewhere in the middle. You know, like, like, I'll be like, there'll be other people
00:28:46
Speaker
of like me who don't have that much diving experience, but a decent amount of archaeology experience, but I was wrong. I was like, I by far had the most archaeological experience and by far the least amount of dive experience. So I was like this funny outlier, but I brought, as I'm sure you did too, a certain skill set that was really, really necessary, that was really helpful to the project.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah. No, it was, I am kind of bummed because like while I was down there, I was working, I was still working on my advanced. So all my dives, I was doing checked off like an advanced certification of what we were doing. But when we went to the captain kid, which I was really excited actually to work on, they're like, well, there's a hundred foot drop here on this reef cliff. Like this is where you can get your deep dive in. So we're just going to take you to do that instead of work. But I was like, but this is a fucking pirate shit. Like I actually kind of want to work on this.
00:29:34
Speaker
no, we're doing the coral. And like the a hundred foot cliff was fantastic. Like that was easily one of those beautiful moments in my life. And I was like, fuck it. I don't need to see a pirate ship. This will always be here, but that 100 foot dive, fuck it. That was incredible.
00:29:47
Speaker
I think you chose wisely because a lot of times what people don't realize is a shipwreck itself, after having been there for like 400 years and been pummeled by the ocean, a lot of times it doesn't look like much. You know, a lot of times can't even see it. A lot of times it's just like, oh, you see these like rocks in this coral. That's the, that's the wreck. You're like, I only see some coral.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah. After like we did like six different sites and it was all like concreted cannons from like different time periods. Like that's all the shipwreck was like, okay. So I just missed two giant mounds of concrete of cannons from the 1700s. Cool. Sweet. It looks a little different than the bombards I just saw the other day. So yeah, I'll take the a hundred foot coral.
00:30:27
Speaker
No, the a hundred foot wall dive is pretty sweet, man. I would, I would do that. Apparently the guy that started this like world save the like manta ray conservation. I forget what the, what this organization is, but the whole thing is to save manta rays. Allegedly the guy that started this foundation did that same dive and saw manta ray, but it was one of those like
00:30:49
Speaker
his camera wasn't working. So it couldn't get a photo of it. So it's like the most like elaborate long con to get someone to prove to people. He saw a man around that trip, but apparently that's, that's what happened. So, okay. So I kept looking behind me in the open ocean, like maybe this man raised comment, maybe all good to see it.
00:31:07
Speaker
But yeah, as you're saying, Oh, just, you know, if you're really into this, and I think, you know, this, the hard skillset to get is the archeology skill set. You can get better at diving over time. So, and I think Charlie used to say this. I think a lot of people would say this. It's like, it's easier to turn an archeologist into a diver than the other way around. Right. That's the first thing he fucking said to me when I told him I was interested. He was just like, yeah, it's easier to turn a diver into a, it's easier to turn archeologists, do a diver than a diver. Just like,
00:31:34
Speaker
Sweet. Well, turn me into a diver then. Yeah. I took his advice even long after I'd left. And so what I would do is the years rolled by working at the Carblanca pools and Belize or whatever, I would take classes to, I take like one dive class a year, even if that where it's like, Oh, I get my advanced open water. Oh, I get my nitrox certification, whatever, you know, I'd go through it. And then ultimately about
00:31:58
Speaker
Boy, at this point, about eight years ago, I was like, I'm going to get my dive master certification. And that's what I got. Right. And that was a real feeling of accomplishment because dive master's a thing. The other ones you can get, you know, couple of weekends, you're good. Dive master, you got to put in the effort. It was the last great.
00:32:21
Speaker
academic-ish thing I ever did, if that makes sense. I was like 40 or so when I started doing even like 43 or something. And I was like proud of myself, you know, and I'm like, dude, I'm a dive master. Like, this is awesome. So I recommend sort of year by year just if you're into it, you know, you just stick with it and take those classes and it and it was it's really helpful.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. And all the students he has down here, all the undergrads, they're dive masters. And after we left, three stayed to get their instructional certificates. Oh, damn. Yeah. So he has this mill of he takes a student from freshman year all the way up, gets him completely trained, whether it's in archaeology, biology, animal behavior. He has his
00:33:03
Speaker
little groups, but he makes sure all of them can teach the dive classes, and he has safety officers out there. He has a self-contained system. That's why all of his students end up as this state underwater archaeologist somewhere. They work for Texas A&M or South Carolina, where he's making those kids.
00:33:19
Speaker
professionals. And I was just like, I want this so bad. He had that mill the better part of 25 years ago. Like when I was on his project, all the other students were that, you know, they were all that. That's why they were like so good at diving, all that stuff. And I was kind of this weird outsider because yeah, I was sort of like having a moment in their fishbowl. And it was, it was very interesting. That was another time when I learned a lot about diving from those guys. They were, they were very competent.
00:33:44
Speaker
I bet. So outside of the Cenotes and the shipwreck you did with Charles, what other kind of underwater archaeology have you done in your career? Those are really the two big ones.
00:33:56
Speaker
I'm trying to think. I mean, the Cenote thing was kind of like, all right, you know, every year for several years, we would we would be doing that. And that's kind of the the one they chisel on my tombstone. You know, here lies Andrew Kinkela, the Cenote guy. The shipwreck was actually in northern California. It was the Pomona shipwreck, which was in northern California on Fort Ros Cove. And that is some chilly diving, my friend. Like that was chilly. That is a seven and seven wetsuit.
00:34:25
Speaker
still freezing your ass off. Like it was so cold. I think I want to say the water was like, I don't know, 48, 50, you know, somewhere in there. And it was like, uh, it was, it was brutally cold. That's the main thing I remember from working on the Pomona. It's like, I'm freezing. I'm still freezing. We did a freshwater diet in like early April at sunset ponds here. And it was same kind of thing, but we had the seven mills on and like, well, you'll be fine. But like your face doesn't have
00:34:55
Speaker
Oh, that suit on it. And like, that's what I remember most is like water getting stuck underneath the hood and sitting on my forehead and having the worst fucking ice cream had I ever had. Exactly. I was just, I was miserable. I was like, I'm going to fucking leave. And they're like, you just need to wait three more minutes. And they're like treadmill minutes of like waiting to go numb in my forehead to feel comfortable.
00:35:17
Speaker
that's so funny because that your interior monologue is like the rantings of an insane person you're just like i'm so cold i'm so fucking cold i cannot do this anymore i am leaving right now because fuck this place and fuck you and fuck you and fuck them because fuck this you know and then you stay
00:35:33
Speaker
And then you're just sitting there and gradually get better. It's just like, suddenly it's like, okay, your face is numb. And I was like, Oh, sweet. This is, this is fine. But then you hit that thermocline and just start to skin. I'm like, no, fuck that. I'm saying about 17 feet. I'm only saying at 17 feet, not even going to like splash my toes in there to mix up water. Fuck that. The cold water can stay down there.
00:35:52
Speaker
Because all your body is just screaming like, don't do this to me anymore. This is awful. And then you're trying to like write something down on like waterproof paper or something on gloves on and it's just.
00:36:08
Speaker
we went up and they're like, let's switch out. Like we're going to wait up here. Cause we did like 15 minutes and we still had like at least half a tank left or like, we went in with like 3,200 PSI. We came out up after 15 minutes was 1,600. So we had about like a thousand to play with. Like we'll just wait here for five minutes and then we can do a second dive and we'll count for two. And I was like, okay, I'll be right back. Just put in my snorkel. And I just like sat below the water with my dive computer above the surface was like, I'm not letting my face
00:36:34
Speaker
thaw. I'm not doing that five minutes again. So I'd rather just sit here and just stare at nothing for five minutes, breathing out of my circle. It's like, just tap me when you're ready for us to go down. I'll put in the respirator and sink. It's just torturous, man. Oh, God. It brings it all back. That that face chill and what you're saying about the ice cream headache. Yeah, it gets it's like right in the center of the forehead. You know, it is
00:37:00
Speaker
It's chilly. And a couple weeks before, we used to certify students at Sunset Ponds, but it's like doing the mask clear in the water. And I was like, oh, it can't be that fucking bad. I was like, no, I can do it. And it's like, Carlton, do you respect me as a professional? I'm like, okay, you're right. It was like one of those moments, like, okay, I guess there is something to this. If you would rather send students to the Dominican Republic to certify. Yeah.
00:37:21
Speaker
rather than driving 45 minutes in a pond in April. And then once we had that experience, it's like, oh, no wonder they don't fucking do this anymore. This probably drove students away from the program because this is what this hell was. I couldn't imagine doing a mask clear when all of a sudden now my eyes are now like 50
YouTube Channel and Pseudo-Archaeology
00:37:37
Speaker
degrees colder than they were a second ago. It's brutal. It's brutal. I can't take it. We'll be right back with segment three. We'll be right back after these messages.
00:37:49
Speaker
All right. And we'll write back with episode 159. So, you know, real quick, Andrew, other than the underwater work that you've done, I've always been, maybe it always is the wrong word, but since getting to know of you through pseudo-archaeology pod, the pseudo-arch podcast, you're also on YouTube and you have your own channel, can kill it teaches archeology. And there's like some that have some, some pretty decent hits on there, but you just have these like quick, like
00:38:13
Speaker
four to 10 minute videos on different topics. Like what is anthropology? Like what is this term? But also I'm curious like what, cause you mentioned this on your podcast before, when you talk about Graham Hancock,
00:38:26
Speaker
Like we learned this early with our Instagram page and we, we attacked him and we get really weird now when we try to avoid talking about Graham because it's a weird, like he has a cult following and you have, you have a video. Graham Hancock is right. An archeologist responds to Netflix ancient apocalypse and like spoiler, like no, he's not, he's not right. We mentioned that, but like, what was the one, what was kind of like, what was your thought for us? Like I need to respond to his Netflix series, but like two,
00:38:54
Speaker
What kind of responses were you getting from the general YouTube community? Yeah. Okay. This is fascinating. This is a really cool anthropological study on behind the scenes YouTube people who are watching this in their closet sort of thing.
00:39:13
Speaker
I did that episode and I will say thank god it is not my most watched episode some of my other basic ones like what is anthropology thankfully have more hits than this but graham hancock's ancient apocalypse came out and I was like you know what I'm just gonna do something funny and you can tell from the video I it was a toss-off man
00:39:32
Speaker
I have my tripod set up in my office at all times. So all I do is I set my phone, you know, on the tripod and then I just push record and then I just do it. So I just did this five minute like joke about how I secretly had Atlantean skulls in my office and like I couldn't tell the world. And I just did a toss off, man. And so I put this thing up.
00:39:57
Speaker
And then I check on it like the next day and I'm like, I forget what it was. It was like 2000 hits. That's a lot more than usual. And then it like went up like now it has over 20,000 hits. But what's interesting is when I first put it up.
00:40:13
Speaker
For about the first, like, day, the first 24 hours or so, give or take, the responses were almost all positive. Oh, Kinkella, this is funny. Oh, this is cool. Oh, you know, like just sort of jovial how I thought people would take it, just like heard it. And then it went really dark.
00:40:32
Speaker
after that and so after 24 hours after the 24 hour line it got picked up somewhere whatever happened a different clientele was listening and they went to town like at this point it has way over a thousand responses and like 94% of them are negative
00:40:49
Speaker
Because they're all like, how dare you? You know, and they just stuff that's in all caps, stuff that's really long, like people are typing for a while before they push send, you know, just angry about how I'm just this awful person. My favorite part is when they call me a so-called professor, because I'm like, I mean, I do get a check every month from this institution and I teach classes. So I'm like a real professor.
00:41:16
Speaker
But it was a massive backlash. And it was just really it was just the biggest learning experience. And it's weird, even though it's a laugh, it's weird when that many people hate you like like it it.
00:41:32
Speaker
Kind of puts a little weight on your shoulders as you go through your day. Like you can laugh it off and I do. I don't lose sleep over it, but it's just odd. I'm like, can we all just chill? I just made fun of some stupid shit on Netflix. Like, come on, man. Can we all laugh about this together?
00:41:47
Speaker
And no matter, and like what's funny is like going through those comments, they're like, you know, this makes me want to, you know, this form of satire makes me think, it's like, no matter how you approach Graham, he's so, it's so good at, at the ever entrance of every book, every episode is like scientists hate me, archeologists hate me, but once like he's, he insulates himself. So no matter how you come at him,
00:42:05
Speaker
Of course, it's always wrong. Like you're always doing it the wrong way. And it's just like Jesus Christ. He has to do that. He has to have his setup. That's why he starts the first five minutes of the Netflix series, you know, talking about how archaeologists are terrible and they hate him. Like he had because he has to set up the conflict. So whatever you or I say is instantly, you know, oh, you're just you're just jealous, you know, because he has to have it that way.
00:42:29
Speaker
The only time I got like, usually with the podcast and Instagram, whatever, we'll get those comments on our feed. But the only one time I was really personally attacked, I was a featured guest for, I think it was Evolution Soup over in England. And I made the comment, archaeology moves toward one death at a time, that it's the old silverbacks. We basically have to wait for these people to die because now they control the conferences, the journals.
00:42:53
Speaker
So we basically have to wait for these people dying. People did not like that response. Oh, come on. After I set up the whole conference, it was just craziness. And I was like, OK, I'm done. All right. That is the most tame joke out there. Part of my dark history was I was part of a comedy team for a couple of years. I did improv.
00:43:17
Speaker
You know, like if you've ever seen whose line is it anyway, it's that kind of show like like a team on team improv. So in terms of jokes, I'm like, come on, that is so like fifth grade. Like, who cares? It doesn't mean that it's not funny. It is funny. And it's true. And there's nothing negative about that. You stated a fact.
00:43:38
Speaker
Like big deal. Like, hey, I got to wait for some people to die because there's very few jobs and like you could say any of that. It's true. Like it was. It's it's harsh. Yeah, not but not really, because it's like if we're talking about cancer, cancer is negative, but it's true. People get cancer and die and it sucks. But like you could bring it up. I know that that drives me nuts. Everyone is so precious and pearl clutching over the.
00:44:07
Speaker
Little dumbest shit. And it's just like goofy. And like, generally, I liked your take on, on Graham. Cause it's like one of those jokes that we, Connor and David have, like, you know, if, if he's right, like, fuck, where's our secret membership and payment to the
00:44:24
Speaker
underground cabal. It's like, we want in, like, why are we left out? Why don't we get to know the secrets, you know? But at the end of the day, it's just like, you know, and I'm like dreading, because I know Flint Dibble is going to debate Graham. He has fucking Joe Rogan experience. It's like, Flint, what the fuck are you doing? That is not a safe place or an environment. Like, you're just going to get roasted, my dude. Like, Oh God.
00:44:49
Speaker
I have a I think that's a complex topic. I part of me is like, why not? You know, because honestly, a lot of times the worst critics for that stuff are fellow archaeologists. It's like, oh, they just sit there and go, oh, I can't believe you did this. Oh, I can't believe it's like, dude, he's trying to do something to kind of just beat it all back a little. Yes, the.
00:45:14
Speaker
Possibility of it ending in flames is high, but so what can we all just relax? Like I'm happy he's going on Joe Rogan actually, but I'm also I would say beware. He has to have a really good idea of how he personally casts. That's what I always say. Like you have to have the right person in terms of how they cast to an audience. And if you cast like
00:45:40
Speaker
I'm a know it all nerdy guy. I'm not saying he cast like this or not, but like you have to cast as like a chill like.
00:45:49
Speaker
affable, you know, a person or it will never work because it is a religion. You cannot persuade people with all your facts the other way. They just won't go for it. Exactly. Yeah. That's all about presentation. What I love most about Graham is he always talks shit about how he's about academics, how he's not a trained archaeologist, but he always is like a field scientist.
00:46:11
Speaker
And it's perfect because he's still tapping in subconsciously to some of these visual affirmations that he knows what he's talking about. And it's like, Flint, whatever, just fucking wear a Metallica t-shirt. Do not come in looking like an academic in any way, shape, or form.
00:46:27
Speaker
dead before you start. If you come in with like a tweed jacket, like you are fucking dead. Like you have to, you have to come in, just chill. Like I got my Hawaiian t-shirt on, you know, Hey, what's up guys? Anyway, what's for lunch right on the show? Looks decent. What are we talking about? You know, like, and then you got a chance, but yeah, you're right.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Like I was talking to John Hoopes about it not too long ago, because every time Graham talks about archaeology, he always has to slam John. He hits it first. He's always like, you know, the coward John Hoopes. And it's like his announcement about debating Flint was like Flint's accepted and like two paragraphs and like, fuck John Hoopes. And it's like to be determined. It was like, Jesus. OK. Right. Yeah. You know, such is life with all that crap. I just wish we would all chill out a little more and have a laugh.
00:47:21
Speaker
You know, but alas, no, alas, no. Yeah. But I mean, like, certainly like your podcast gets a lot of laughs. Like when I listen to it, it's like a fun time. It's it's very much like let's talk about I was cracking up when I saw your episode in like Clovis and pseudo archaeology. I was like, holy shit. Here we go. Like you're going to burn or not burn bridges. But it's like this is an episode that's going to get archaeologists a little wound up. Wait, which one you mean? Oh, just Clovis and like
00:47:51
Speaker
It was like the Clovis firsters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Clovis first. And I sort of tried to explain it out because there are sort of twists and turns in that. But but yeah, for me, for me personally, you can't be you know, you can't say that that.
00:48:08
Speaker
I mean, you basically can't say Clovis is first. There's some earlier stuff, but not crazy early, like the only good, you know, I mean, you know this stuff like the only good stuff in terms of dates. By the time you get to 16000, you're getting pretty thin.
Creating Engaging Content
00:48:22
Speaker
And by the time it's 17, you're kind of out, you know, in terms of for sure, good dated stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I just thought that was like a really fun because it came out like.
00:48:32
Speaker
Just early enough, I think it was like early January, mid January when that episode came out of the year, Rose able to use that in class to talk about like taught that science communication and public anthropology class to talk about like, you know, even within archeology, there are these weird, you know, trying to set up these conversations in the field and then to move like kind of outside. Like it's, yeah.
00:48:52
Speaker
You know, there are these divisions and some of this goofy shit, but I mean, your episodes, I mean, they're just like a fun, fun time. Like I, I usually binge them like on car races, 30 minutes.
00:49:04
Speaker
It's just you like almost on random, like some of these get like the tone would debate was about guitars. I haven't listened to that one yet. Cause I was just like, I have no idea what the fuck's going on. But then you mentioned it in a later podcast. Like let me, I got this email about it and I was like, okay, well let me go listen to this tone would debate. Clearly someone got wound up about this and someone's getting wound up. Then I need to go back and
00:49:27
Speaker
They got so angry. I knew that one would hit in terms of like having an angry audience because in electric guitar world, that is like this, like to the death debate that they have. And it's like if you look at the science behind it, you're like the type of wood your electric guitar is made out of makes no difference. The end. Look at the science, you know, like but
00:49:50
Speaker
But it's a religion, just like with Graham Hancock, like they won't let it go. It's like, no, look, an acoustic guitar. Yes, an electric guitar. No, they're very different, actually. But anyway, yeah, it's that it's such a funny world. And I'm so glad you're listening to my show the way I always hope people do. You're like,
00:50:09
Speaker
I'm listening to it in the car. I'm just sort of, you know, listening to a few at a time. I'm having a bit of a laugh. Like, that's what I want, you know. And in terms of archaeology, when we were talking about how there's these little, you know, infighting groups within archaeology itself, I always say, look.
00:50:27
Speaker
First, can we all have a laugh? And second, I'm Andrew Kinkela, friend to all, okay? Like, we're all so lucky that we can live this life being full-time archeologists that people get to pay us for this stuff. We've all won the lottery, right? So let's all just enjoy our winnings, you know, and let's just talk about archeology and enjoy it. I can have a different point of view from you, but I'm not gonna hate you after. I'm just gonna be happy that I still get to do this thing.
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah. What I love most and why I did those episodes, which just me is like, we got like December, uh, I was like procrastinating and should have had to do and like went on to Reddit and I was like, Hey, I'm a life for like our slash archeologist. I'm a host of life and runs. How can we make this better? And a lot of comments were like, we feel your show. It's like,
00:51:13
Speaker
We're outsiders listening into three guys talking with the guests. We're at that outside circle where it's like listening to people at a conference at the next table over. Your show is very much almost like this. It's like you're talking to me as a person, as a listener. It feels way more conversational.
00:51:31
Speaker
very similar to this. It's almost like I'm listening to your podcast right now. Because the way that I listen to it, it's very much like, hi, I'm Andrew Kincaid, let me tell you about this topic. And it feels like you're speaking directly to me, not like ruins where I'm usually speaking to my co-hosts and a guest.
00:51:46
Speaker
And so that's what I love most and like how your podcast is different because even like the CRM show and all the others are very similar. Like it's a group of people and you feel as an audience member, whereas in your podcast, I feel as a participant in that conversation, if that makes sense.
00:52:02
Speaker
It makes total sense. And it's just because of the setup. I'm a solo act, you know, where I'm I am telling a story. It reminds me a lot of a lot of the drama stuff I used to do or whatever doing that podcast, you know, because I'm I'm basically setting up a show for an audience. Right. It's for the audience.
Field Experiences and Resources
00:52:22
Speaker
When we talk in the round, you know, on these other shows where there's several of us, you're right. We are talking
00:52:28
Speaker
to each other and the audience is listening in, but that's okay. That's the setup of the show, you know, but it is two different tastes. Yeah. No, but it's, it's a lot of fun. I'm really glad that you reached out about coming on and we were able to, we were able to get you on ruins for, to have you on it and talk more about, to hear more about like your work outside of just some of those fun episodes. Like, let me tell you about hauling fucking aluminum tanks to go through the forest or just like, it was
00:52:54
Speaker
I can still feel it in my knees to this day. It was so much extra weight for the human body to carry along a long ways. You know how much all that crap weighs. It's really, really heavy. I was bitching about just moving it like less than 50 feet from the back of a pickup into a boat with a slot in it. And I can't imagine like,
00:53:14
Speaker
hauling that thing six miles, including like the fins, the gallon of water you got on your back and all your tools on top. Like, no, fuck that. I'm not. It was one of those things where it was so heavy that whenever we stopped walking, you had to make this command decision of are you going to put anything down or not? You know, because you're going to have to like like you take the tank and put it down. And now you're hugely heavy backpacker. You're going to take that off and put it down because you're going to have to bend over and pick it back up.
00:53:43
Speaker
And so I remember most of the times when we stopped walking, I would just stand with all the stuff still on. Kind of the same idea that you had earlier in terms of taking your mask off. It's like, do I take my mask off and freeze my face? Or when you were like, do I go back down into the cold or do I warm myself or do I just stay cold? It's the same idea. I'm just gonna stay tired with all this crap on because once I take it off, oh, I can't imagine putting it back on.
00:54:11
Speaker
Fair enough. Well, excellent. So we've reached the end of the episode. So, you know, you know, doctor can kill it. Like what are some, uh, resources, uh, these would be books, videos, whatever that you'd recommend or audience listen to regarding either like pseudo science or your work in central America.
00:54:30
Speaker
Ooh, yeah, in terms of if you want to learn more, I really like Frauds, Myths and Mysteries. That's a great classic book, which I actually used when I was a TA one time, and I think I'm going to do
00:54:45
Speaker
a show on my experiences using that because that has that had its own interest. I really recommend that for the pseudo archaeology world. I, of course, recommend myself the pseudo archaeology podcast. I'm also part of the CRM podcast. And then my oh, my YouTube videos, anyone out there, if you watch any of my YouTube videos, feel free to comment on any of them because I kind of can see the scrolling comments as they come in.
00:55:11
Speaker
And I do take them seriously. If there's a video you guys want and you don't haven't had me do, if you have questions about archaeology, you want me to answer, I love doing that stuff. I take like audience questions all the time because I just want to answer whatever people are curious about in terms of other books on the subject. You know, there's if you're just curious about the ancient Maya, there's Michael Close classic book, the Maya, which I use in class and I think really works well. I think it's easy.
00:55:39
Speaker
So it's 2006, 2008. For the Maya? Yeah. It's the most recent one, I think is newer. OK. So they redid it a bunch of times. He died fairly recently, but they redid it right up to the right up to the nub. So that one's good. My my textbook Kinkella teaches archaeology. If you're into intro to archaeology type stuff, you always check that out.
00:56:05
Speaker
So that's the name of your YouTube channel and the book that you know. Oh, my God. See, I have so many irons and so many fires. I got it wrong. See, I'm just I'm not a professional. Let's be honest. My textbook is called Archaeology is Awesome. Archaeology is awesome. OK, perfect. And where can our listeners find you on social media or can they email you out?
00:56:26
Speaker
You know, the the easiest way to get in touch with me actually is through my YouTube channel, just because I see those comments like like right away. It's like, oh, there they are.
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:56:35
Speaker
I have like a Facebook account and I have a Twitter account and all that kind of good stuff. But I have to be honest, I barely ever use them. So they are there. They do exist. But I'm telling you, the YouTube comment section is really where I see it a lot and I can really write back really easily. Sweet.
00:56:54
Speaker
And last but certainly not least, if given the chance again, would you still choose to live a life in ruins? Oh, hell yeah. It's been great. I am so fortunate for my career. Excellent. Well, everyone, this has been episode 159. We just interviewed Dr. Andrew Kinkella, Professor of Archaeology at Moore Park College in California, in that giant state. And keep listening. And if you have, always, always, always,
00:57:20
Speaker
If you're listening to us on the All Shows Feed, stop. Stop what you're doing right now. Go into our individual show. Subscribe to us. Listen there. That way we can get all the metrics for how well our show is doing. Please email us with any questions, concerns, or topics of interest, or people that we should.
00:57:38
Speaker
And I think that's our usual closure. Oh yeah, rain subscribe to the podcast. Always, always, always really appreciate seeing those five stars, four stars, even the occasional one star. We really appreciate when people let us know what's up. And with that, we are out.
00:58:00
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archeologists in from the cold and feed them beer.
00:58:28
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, Dig Tech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.