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A Bittersweet Homecoming and Rice? - Ep 164
2.7k Plays1 year ago
On this episode of ALiRP, Carlton recounts his recent return to Pawnee, Oklahoma. The lads chat about Pawnee Homecoming, Culture, and Mourning customs and then they somehow end up talking about rice.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Taco Bell's Menu Humor
00:00:06
Speaker
What I'm trying to say is Taco Bell has everything is the same thing on the menu, just rolled into a different shape and branded as a different thing with different prices. And it all makes you sick.
Introduction to Episode 164
00:00:18
Speaker
Anyway, welcome to a live from there is podcast Carlton, take it from here.
00:00:22
Speaker
Well, yes, yes. Welcome, indeed, to a Life in Ruins podcast, episode 164. We're going to investigate the careers of those living life in ruins. I'm your host Carlton Gover, joined by my co-host Connor Jahnen and David Howe. Just the three of us this week. I guess it's been a couple of weeks since we've done a podcast together. I guess it's two or three weeks. Yeah. Take less than one for sure. Since we've all been on one. Yeah. That was the last one. That was, uh, the Homo Naledi. Okay. Yeah. The burial practices.
00:00:52
Speaker
That was a good episode. I was listening to that again on my way back. Or my way to Oklahoma. I guess we should start off by apologizing if you guys had to listen to whatever crap Sancaster published this week for the show that Carlton and I did together. We'll apologize for that. We have no idea what's going on.
00:01:10
Speaker
Let us know if it's better, worse. It's actually really funny and we did not fuck up that bad. Yeah. I haven't had David like a couple of weeks, like a week ago too. When that episode dropped. I was listening to, uh, yours with Charles Connor, like it just kept repeating random things. Right? Yeah. And it's, it seems to be only Apple, Chris said. So if you guys are listening on Apple podcasts. It happened to me on Spotify yesterday. Did it.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah. And it was a downloaded episode, but it was the same thing. It would just cut mid segment and it would like repeat segments. Like I think the end of segment two, it just cut me off and then went into an ad, but like the latter half of an ad. Yeah. Really weird. So I don't know what's up with it. So if you guys are listening to this episode and it does that contact us immediately, cause oftentimes
Apologies for Technical Glitches
00:01:54
Speaker
we don't listen to these episodes the day they come out. So if you're having issues listening,
00:01:58
Speaker
email us at life from his podcast, gmail.com or reach out to us in any of our socials. And we'll get it over to Chris cause this has been happening across the archeology podcast network. I just thought Charles talked in circles a lot and I was like, damn, he already said that. He's very eloquent and speaks very direct and very great interview. By the way, it was good.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, only because he was good, so it was easy to talk to him and I see him every day. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun talking to him. You can also send a bunch of hate to Zencaster too if you feel like it.
00:02:30
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with it. Well, until I see a fucking dime from Zencaster, for that ad campaign they were supposed to do, we were supposed to get all this money. I haven't seen it yet. So until our bank account expands. As my grandmother would say, what can you do? What can you do?
00:02:53
Speaker
What can you do? So, Carlton, you were gone last week. When did you leave? You went on an adventure recently, like Bilbo running into the Misty Mountains.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, I guess you could say that. I had an impromptu trip back to Pawnee, Oklahoma. I was going to go originally for Pawnee Nation Homecoming. I decided against it because I needed to get some work done, but then unfortunately, my uncle passed away, so I had to go back for the funeral.
Pawnee Nation Homecoming Experience
00:03:31
Speaker
And so, because it happened during Homecoming,
00:03:34
Speaker
a lot of my family, we all just kind of stayed for not only the funeral and the cultural practices surrounding the morning time, then went to, uh, stayed for homecoming. Cause like we were all, we were all there. So we decided to attend.
00:03:50
Speaker
What is Homecoming? Pawnee Nation Homecoming Powwow started in 1946 by my grandfather and a couple other veterans. The whole purpose of Homecoming was to, every year around July 4th, weekend, bring ponies from across the country for a Pawnee-specific powwow where a bunch of different songs and dances would occur in events.
00:04:11
Speaker
So, that's where it
Origins of Pawnee Powwow
00:04:13
Speaker
started. It was back in 1946 when all the World War II vets got together to host it. So, it's hosted by the Pawnee Nation veterans. They're the ones that are supposed to be running the Pawnee Veterans Organization. So, it's very much
00:04:29
Speaker
contemporary powwow state, there's a lot of intertribal songs and contests. No, Pawnee Nation powwow is like Pawnee, a lot of war songs, and very specific. It's all just
Pawnee Warrior Culture
00:04:41
Speaker
Pawnee music and activities, so it brings people.
00:04:44
Speaker
That's cool. I think we've talked about this. I don't know if we've talked about it directly on the podcast, but the Pawnees in general have kind of a, it's like a war like culture or there is some emphasis in it. Yeah. So, I mean, we're very much a warrior society. So, uh, how does good society is what we call it. And a lot of that happens really around
00:05:09
Speaker
like looking at the archaeological record, the developments of our warrior society really develop like during that medieval global warping period in the 1400s, but then really takes off during American or Euro-American colonization as more tribes are putting pressure onto the plains, the Lakota show up and others. And that's where we really see our warrior society tick off. And then once we are enlisted by the United States cavalry as scouts,
00:05:33
Speaker
that transforms, that form of service completely transforms into a whole different context. So like even today, veterans hold a very, especially combat veterans, like everyone else, I know Matt listens to this and he might agree, but like, if you're in a meeting and there's a combat veteran,
00:05:51
Speaker
it doesn't matter. Or if there's a veteran and you're not, you are overruled all the time. And if there's a combat veteran, like they take precedent. So that we have a kind of this rank society where definitely military service is very much put on a pedestal for the right reason. So like in part upon your culture, like when you are in general Indian culture today, if you go to a pow wow, one of the things you're supposed to do as a dancer is provide like a gift to the host or the drum.
00:06:21
Speaker
Pawnees are the only tribe of the country that don't have to do that because we've already given enough blood for this country that we don't have to give anything else. So we have this weird like status
Pawnee Recognition in Powwow Culture
00:06:32
Speaker
even within North American Indian societies is like our warrior society and our service to the United States is recognized on a different level of like, okay, they don't, we have a special status.
00:06:42
Speaker
That's pretty intense because there's way more Navajo than any other nation I'd imagine. Lakotas recently beat them. Really? Yeah, so Lakotas, I think they're both over 200,000 in rural tribal citizens each. But yeah, then there's like Pawnee Nation with like 4,000 now and we have a very...
00:06:59
Speaker
specific status within. Like a lot of powwow culture today, especially if you go, there's a Northern style and a Southern style, those are the predominant ones. Most Southern style powwows, the songs are Pawnee songs.
00:07:13
Speaker
often, more often than not. There's some other ones you can listen to, some Comanche ones and Kiowas, but like a lot of songs are Pawnee songs. Because a lot of our culture is still very much intact because of a lot of our service to the United States, but also just like how deeply organized the Pawnee Nation was even after removal and keeping these songs. Because we had
00:07:36
Speaker
It also goes in the residential school system, how we didn't have to go so far, even though it was a boarding school, it was still within the Pawnee Reserve. Some did go to Carlisle, the really horrific one in Pennsylvania, don't get me wrong, but generally we didn't have that same cultural degradation as the Navajos did who were trained out to, you know, Ogden.
00:07:53
Speaker
or the Lakotas who were all brought out. It was very much like we were close by and you can't just like beat Pawnee kids. Now some of the atrocities did occur, but like their parents are like two miles away and like, you know, the tribe is all around. Like if you're going to like systematically fuck up children, you're going to, you're going to die, right? So we have some of those, you know, cultural protections built, built in.
00:08:12
Speaker
should stay
Pawnee Code Talkers in WWII
00:08:13
Speaker
for the record. I think the statistic I was referring to was Navajo is the most spoken indigenous language in the United States, the second most of North America. I didn't, it's not population. I don't think it was though. Like recently it changed. So they, they used to have the highest population. They're like, everything you said is absolutely correct. Just like within this past year and Indian country, it's like, there's more Lakotas now. And you know, as a party that sucks, but for them, it was good for them.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah, you guys go along very well, right? Very well. But they're almost the coders. I know it's just all teasing. We don't take those things to heart. Follow-up question would be like, I know the Navajo code talkers were like a specific thing or whatever, but with the Pawnee being so involved in World War II, was there any specific roles that they filled or were they just any other combat veteran? Most of them were combat vets. Actually, my grandfather was a Pawnee code talker and so was his brother.
00:09:04
Speaker
So they were awarded the congressional Kotaku medals in 2012. I have like a copy in my room. I have a couple of copies of those things. It's just because in part of that warrior society, back in the National Guard days, the 45th Infantry Division, the Thunderbirds was the most racially diverse
00:09:21
Speaker
National Guard unit in the country. They were all Indian units. A lot like my grandfather and a lot of Pawnees, they all went to the National Guard and they were all in the same company. They were all 45th, 179th Division, Bravo Company, all infantry. Because most of the guys are Pawnees or someone else, they were speaking code. They were just speaking. A lot of tribes, the Navajo are very
00:09:45
Speaker
well-known for their service in the Marine Corps, where the Marine Corps only used Navajo code talkers. The US Army in Europe, specifically with the National Guard units, they had access to more tribes, especially in Oklahoma. So they were using damn near each division. A lot of these units had their own codes of their own languages. So you'd have one headquarters tent that had a bunch of different Indians in it speaking to their units on the front line. So they would be speaking Pawnee or Kiowa.
00:10:15
Speaker
So, there's a lot more code talkers than people recognize, but the Navajo code is very specific to the Marine Corps, where the Marines were only using this and heavily recruited from the Navajo. I guess for the audience listening who might not know about what we're talking about, is that the United States military
00:10:32
Speaker
And I guess the English to used Native American languages to speak to each other across communications so that the Japanese and the Germans couldn't like figure out the code. Yeah. Like what they couldn't create. Yeah. Pretty cool. They didn't have, they had no idea cause they didn't have access to the, basically the anthropological records. Like.
00:10:49
Speaker
Today, I don't know if you can get away with it, but back then, these are native speakers. My grandfather, he was raised by his grandparents who came from Nebraska. He knew Pawnee, and he also knew plans in St. Louis. Those are first generation. They grew up speaking Pawnee.
00:11:05
Speaker
So they were very fluent when those co-talkers were. So yeah, we have the medals. I think my dad and uncle almost left it in the taxi in DC. There's like some story behind it. Like after the ceremony, they were in a taxi and they thought they each thought the other brother grabbed it. And they had to like chase the taxi down to get this fucking medal.
00:11:25
Speaker
So yeah, so we have this very much so that this homecoming is to recognize a lot, to recognize that. So we have, everyone hears of Indian princesses. We do have, we do actually have princesses, but they're very much a modern day thing. So we have, I think, I know we have at least two, maybe three, but we have the Pawnee nation princess, but we also have the Pawnee nation veterans princess. And so that gets awarded at the pow wow. And so there's, there's duties and responsibilities with that. So like being a princess today,
00:11:51
Speaker
that's usually a high school girl, carries a lot of weight. They're supposed to be ambassadors for our tribes. So even at our homecoming, there were other tribes, princesses there. They have to attend, and there's a section for other princesses. So it's really interesting. As an anthropologist, I look at that because princesses are not
00:12:11
Speaker
an ancestral or traditional thing. That is very much a modern, post-Western thing that we've picked up. They're pretty cool. Is there a word that they would use previously to describe that and had a similar role, or is it a completely new role that's kind of adopted from
00:12:29
Speaker
interaction with Western culture? The latter. Yeah, because it's just a latter thing. It's very much a newer thing. And like powwows themselves are also very new amalgamations. I think they really started showing up really in the 1900s.
00:12:46
Speaker
Nico Holt told me it was like because of the Buffalo Bill show and stuff like that like yeah to make Americans like if you I mean not like natives as if they're an exhibit but like you know just something that New Yorkers had never had contact with you know
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. So a lot of roots of like indigenous led, cause we also had our Wild West show was Pawnee, Bill's World. So there's Buffalo Bill and there's Pawnee Bill. Those were the two major shows. Buffalo Bill used a lot of Lakotas and what did Pawnee Bill use? A lot of fucking Pawnee's, you know, so those are the roots of it. And so that, that's why like a lot of
00:13:20
Speaker
powwow songs or Pawnee songs. So we have a very firm route into powwow culture in that way. But it was a fun time. This was the first year, granted because of the funeral and my uncle that passed away, he's a Vietnam combat vet. And out of respect for him and my family, because he was also
00:13:41
Speaker
helped run Pawnee Veterans Organization, and he helped run these things. He's also a South Band chief, and he run Kuskahadu, our Wichita visitation, which we're really worried about because no one wants to take that up anymore. The reason why he's South Band is because the guy that used to run Kuskahadu picked my uncle,
00:14:01
Speaker
And in order to do it, he had to switch bands. So he was Skeetie, and then he went to Pitt to Holly Dada, and that was a very significant choice that kind of followed him the rest of his life, because he lost all credibility within the Skeetie band. He's like, you don't want to be Skeetie anymore? Fuck it. You don't have a say in our meetings or how Skeeties run things. It was a big deal that he had to do, and I respect him for it, because he, you know, Kuskahata, we've been doing that for 300 years, at least. So he picked that up and has run it.
00:14:30
Speaker
Homecoming is supposed to run four days, but because of the funeral, it got condensed into two, which caused some issues. I don't want you to speak on behalf of all Pawnee veterans.
00:14:42
Speaker
Have you overheard stories or like, do you know any opinions on like what it's like for indigenous Americans to fight for the country that killed them? So I'm not privy to those conversations. Okay. You know, it's like, that's, that's our warrior society. You can only be in that if you're a veteran. Sure. So like the stories that I've heard is like before the world war two guys went to war,
00:15:06
Speaker
all the Pawnee Scouts that were still alive who fought the Lakotas back in the day, they got them all together and taught them things and told them stories, which they then utilized in Italy and North Africa and Germany. They taught them the old tricks of the trade, like, this is when you do night missions. This is how you do this. This is what you need to do to prepare. And that still moved on from war to war. And the World War II guys taught it to the Vietnam guys. The Vietnam guys taught it to Desert Storm.
00:15:31
Speaker
So they've kept that knowledge. So it's still there, but it's within our warrior society. I mean, it makes sense because if the Japanese or the Germans were to take over the continent, like they would also be taken over too. So I mean, it's better to fight against them. I don't know.
00:15:47
Speaker
Well, I mean, for us, because we never went to war with the United States, our original 1818 treaty that was signed June 18th, my birthday, we agreed to fight with the United States in perpetuity. So even though the United States is backed down on that treaty, like the way that our nation looks at it is like, we are still upholding our end of the bargain. So I know some vets, that's how they cope. It's like, well, we're, we're just upholding to what we said we would do. Not necessarily these ideas of freedom or the United States or terrorism. It's like we have an obligation
00:16:30
Speaker
And we're back to episode 164. So outside of just kind of general, this background, this was the first year that Homecoming wasn't, so it's usually held at the high school football field, which is a little bit down the road, and it's off the reserve. It's not technically a reservation anymore, it's a reserve because of the district ways.
00:16:40
Speaker
as part of this treaty to fight for the United States in times before.
Relocation of Homecoming to Moe's Yellow Horse Field
00:16:48
Speaker
So we brought it, so this is the first year we had it on the reserve at Moe's Yellow Horse Field, and Moe's Yellow Horse is the first full-blooded Indian to have played Major League Baseball. He played for the Pirates.
00:16:59
Speaker
Um, so we held it there on the reserve and it was just so much nicer like actually being on the reserve and then everyone camps, you know, you, you get campsites. And so usually everyone camps.
00:17:10
Speaker
on the reserve anyway. So rather than having to drive down the street, which isn't terribly far, but you would have to drive down, you could just walk. We had to take chairs up for family, like me and my cousin. And by the time we had put the chairs in the truck, driven the truck and parked it, everyone who had walked was already there. It was nowhere. It wasn't far at all. And it's a lot more fun because you're in camp and you can hear, even if you're not up there,
00:17:37
Speaker
you can hear the drums and you can hear the music. And there's like basketball courts up there too. So like a lot of the kids were playing basketball. It was a lot more open space. It's not in the woods. And it just felt much better because the last time I was at a homecoming was as a kid. I usually go back for like dances and other like band specific things. But just cause like the past couple of years, you know, this weekend is in the middle of field season. Yeah.
00:18:02
Speaker
So, I haven't been able to go back for this in a long time just because of work. But here, because of the funeral, a lot of my family was there. It was kind of funny because we had talked about death a couple of weeks ago. So, during this morning ceremony, like M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G for my uncle, it's like a three-day event.
00:18:21
Speaker
that ends with a feast. And it's all ceremonies, so I don't want to get into it. But there is this, I mentioned this in our group chat with Shane and Jesse. A lot of us were so concerned about fucking up because we're kind of used to being yelled at as kids, especially. And a lot of us still think that way. Now they're all adults with their own kids, but we still think about when we were kids and getting yelled at for stuff. So after we buried my uncle, we have to go back to the Pawnee Nation Roundhouse for the morning feast.
00:18:44
Speaker
And we were all like, we got to go, we got to go, we got to go. There's no time to dilly-dally. And even some of my cousins wanted it, you know, their parents had passed. They wanted to visit their gravestone. So they had to be quick about it. So we're all super concerned to get back in time. Cause we, God forbid we were late, but right as the service was going to start, we heard like the door Creek open, you know, everybody in the round house is like looking towards the entrance and this woman and her family come in holding the, those Sonic route 44 mega cops.
00:19:12
Speaker
and then dragging this cooler. And the only way I can describe it, it's like that scene from Men in Black, when Will Smith is dragging the table across the room in white to do the test. That's what it sounded like. And everyone was fucking pissed. And the head man of the ceremony,
00:19:29
Speaker
You know, he gets up, the room's divided, the roundhouse is divided in two. You have family on one side, you have guests on the other. And like part of the ceremony is like, it's my uncle's last meal with everybody. And so a family, this is the coolest thing about being Indian is like, there's a family that took care of us, so we wouldn't have to do it. So a family, they fed us, like they made all the meals for my family.
00:19:50
Speaker
and for the guests and you can't say no. So like I've, you know, we were breaking out Ziploc bags. So like there's no saying no to food. You have to take it. So, but you basically get take like leftovers too at the same time. But as, as the head man is, is giving a speech, he like looks to us and he starts going on this rant about how inappropriate it was to bring him route 44s. So my, my uncle and aunt immediately get up and they start serving the rest of us to look if we had brought tea
00:20:17
Speaker
Cause we were all like, nope. And for once it wasn't us that got in trouble, but we had, we'd been talking about it when that woman came in cause it was hot down there. And I was like talking to my cousins like, man, actually like a route 44 sounds like sounds great. But after getting that person got chewed out publicly in front of the tribe for doing that, we were like, well, thank God we didn't fucking stop at Sonic on the way home. But then we just started making memes about the whole, the whole incident. Like, you know, cause that might, you know how it goes. Like my family, especially like humor is a big deal. So like after a day,
00:20:46
Speaker
we found some funny photos of my uncle and named the shit out of him. Like, you know, that face, when you bring a route 44 suite to the morning, things get caught and stuff like that. And then after that was done, we were technically done morning and we can kind of have a little bit more brevity to have quote unquote fun and just be home. Cause it was fun being able to see, you know, Matt and his role, you know, Matt is still South Bend chief who we've had on the podcast before. And at that pow wow, he's up front on center stage, you know, judging people. He's part of the whole process.
00:21:15
Speaker
It was a lot of fun and it was just fun to be around family, have the teepee set up and just to be fed so much food. And just to be around so many Pawnees, cause there's teepees all over the place. Everyone's pretty much in regalia and it's a really good time. And even like tribal police from other tribes, they show up to help out so that way our tribal police can participate. So it's this really cool like coming together of like Indians across Oklahoma to participate.
00:21:42
Speaker
and be there for one another. And like our homecoming is like noted as one of the top things to do in Oklahoma for July 4th weekend. And it's, it's free to anybody. Yeah, people can come all the time. Like, you know, you don't have to jump in. There's a lot of folks from other tribes that come and even some, like even some people, you know, cause they come from mixed Indian families when they dance, like they're wearing, you can tell real quickly
00:22:07
Speaker
who's not Pawnee based on their regalia. But we do have like Northern style and stuff like that. But it's just like a fun time just to be, to be Pawnee for a weekend and to be around everyone. It's just a good time. Ended like Camp Hop was always fun. Fucking Matt.
00:22:22
Speaker
set up his teepee. It's, it was funny cause you can tell why he did it. Like he set up his teepee right in the shaded part of a tree, but next to the tree was this huge lamppost. And like the first time I saw it, the lamppost just empties completely into his teepee flat. And I was making fun of him for it. He's like, he hardly got any sleep cause the whole thing was just lit from the inside. But like even the campsites, they have water and power. So like there was the camp next door, they had two rotating fans in the center of a circle so they could all get
00:22:52
Speaker
blasted with, with AC. It was just, it was just a fun, funny time. And it's like fun being able to go in those places. And I was like asking family, like, you guys ever brought friends or like dates to homecoming? And like most of them were like, no,
00:23:09
Speaker
Usually you have to be married. I'm like, is it against protocol? They're like, no, it's just like, I don't want my family to fucking like tease the fuck out of anyone I bring. You know what I mean? Like they want to be my friends or girlfriend again, if after like a weekend with the family, because everyone's just hyped up, you know? Did you ask about fellow podcasts?
00:23:27
Speaker
co-host. My uncle was asking about you two. And that was too. He's like, oh, he's like, are David and Connor here? I'm like, no. I let them sit out. Like I needed to be back first and then scope out the land. And then next year, cause I imagined, because I kept thinking like, you know, it'd be cool. Like I really wish I brought my stone toolkit. It was out of been a perfect time, especially just sitting with everybody. Cause we're all just visiting, like to sit down and make stone tools. That would have probably gone a huge way.
00:23:54
Speaker
to do that. And people were just asking, you know, what catching up and now like a bunch of more of my family are starting to get PhDs. So it got, we got into like a weird academic space at one point talking about like indigenous ontologies and teaching who was just like, dude, I don't want to talk about this right now. I just don't want to talk about academia at this moment. You want to take a step back, especially with all your last couple of years, which has been turbulent at best. Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
It was good. There's only a couple of tribes, and I think about it. There's a Potawatomi one, and you have to be Potawatomi. They check. You have to have a CIB, or you have to show proof that you're related to someone with a CIB to get in. They do the fraternity, who do you know here? CIB. Certificate of Indian Blood, the Indian card. You have to show enrollment.
00:24:44
Speaker
or a descendancy to be able to get in. But generally those things are just open to the public. But the dances are really fun. I mean, it's not just traditional stuff. Like there's the two step where all the guys are out there and then women basically choose their dance partner. Did you get picked? I did. And I felt so bad because like what had happened was there's what had happened. Like there's a friend of mine from the museum board. She's on it.
00:25:07
Speaker
we were just chatting, but I was over by her, by her family section. And I just kind of like, she's like, was everything okay with your family? And I looked over and everybody had their eyes on me and I started getting texts like, who are you talking to? I was like, Oh, fuck. And then, um,
00:25:23
Speaker
And then I just started, I just started seeing, making jokes. And then immediately it's like the two-step came on. She's like, oh, the two steps on. I was like, and I'm going to go get a lemonade and just fucking booked it and just like got out of there. And then when I was getting a lemonade, I met some folks from Colorado that I used to work with and we were all just kind of chatting and I felt so bad. I was like texting her. I was like, I, I'm so sorry. Like I went to the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:25:43
Speaker
And then went back and for the rest of the fucking weekend, that's all I heard was just like, who's your friend? Like, where's your friend at? Like, why were you late? Were you visiting your friend? I'm like, calm the fuck down. That's such a family thing to do every time, especially when you're single. It's like, who's that girl? Who were you talking to? It's like, I was talking to a female that happened.
00:26:01
Speaker
But then, but you know, that happens. But then like, that's how a couple of my cousins met their first wife, or that's who's their mom type of shit. You know what I mean? So like, it's, it's coming. But after the powwow, and this is something I learned completely new this year. Everyone kept talking about the 49. They're going to go to the, is there a 49 this year? Like who's going to go to the 49?
00:26:19
Speaker
I was like, what the fuck is a 49? They're like, oh, you don't know, do you? And I was like, what is it? So 49 is in reference to these 49 Apaches or something. There was like 300 of them that went on the war trail and only 49 came back and it came back. They sang these like horror songs and like love and stuff like that. But nowadays a 49 is what all the deviants do after a powwow.
00:26:40
Speaker
they pick a place and they bring a drum and they sing like love songs and everyone gets drunk and drinks and usually gets busted up by the police later that night, which is a whole part of power culture. I'd never heard of like, cause I was too little when I was a kid to know what a 49 was, but everyone kept talking about it. I kept hearing like 49 stories of different years and places that it was held. And like usually the fights that happened there or the girls that got caught, the people got, got cheating or
00:27:06
Speaker
cool stuff. But it was really weird. Because I was thinking as an anthropologist, this is based on a historical event in which these songs were sung to commemorate these 49 out of 300 coming back. And now we've turned it into something widely different to what it used to be, where it's like you can go out afterwards and drink and smoke and you sing those ridiculous, the modern day powwow songs where they're like,
00:27:27
Speaker
have the love stories and stuff in them that are in English, not in Indian. But this year they didn't have any. They had a sober one at the grounds, which were like, okay, a sober 49 fucking silly. We all just went back to camp and we were like, well, we'll just pregame the sober 49. And by the time we got up there, like 10 minutes later, it was already over. We were like, what the fuck? So it was just like, huh. That sounds like a sober gathering.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. No one really showed up. It's like, yeah, because we all went to pregame the sober 49. Like you had it immediately after the pow wow, we all had to go and take a couple of shots to come back to this. You guys just didn't wait long enough, but it was cool. You know, I'd like to have you guys come out maybe next year, the year after, cause it's just like a fun four days and
00:28:12
Speaker
a lot of food. It's a lot of fun. A lot of stories are told, and that's where a lot of people start talking about some of the older stuff that had happened, or especially younger kids are then asking their grandparents or great-grandparents, history and family facts. That's where a lot of that transfer of knowledge is occurring, is at these camps.
00:28:29
Speaker
These camps aren't like single family units of mom, dad, their kids. Like a camp is the entire extended family. Like my camp was my great uncle and my great aunt's kids. Their kids didn't like, so there's all of us are in one spot. Like everyone with the last name Gover or used to have the last name Gover is in one place at this campground.
00:28:49
Speaker
all catching up. Yeah. And that's how all the other families are, you know? So you go to these camps and there's like several dozen people that know each other. So it's an aggregation. Yeah. It's like this aggregation. It's a murder of Govers or whatever it is.
00:29:05
Speaker
And they're a fun time. And it's part of, um, like, especially in Oklahoma culture, there's the powwow summers where you could go as like a professional. If you wanted to live as a powwow dancer, you could do it all summer in Oklahoma because every weekend there's a powwow somewhere, you know, and you could just go dance at all these different powwows and make it look a lot of high school kids do it. I've always wanted to see an Apache crown dance. Those look super cool.
00:29:28
Speaker
never seen one before. That's the one that have the huge headdresses with like the sticks and stuff. It was like Oklahoma is that weird place for like old tribes from the East coast to the West coast. Like there's some like California tribes that ended up in Oklahoma. So you, you get basically, if you wanted a, a charcuterie board of powwow culture, go to Oklahoma. Cause you could see all these different, that's the name of the episode, charcuterie board of powwow culture.
00:29:55
Speaker
And then there's a lot of non-Indians there, too. There are hobbyists, is what they're called. Hobbyists will show up. Powwow hobbyists? Powwow hobbyists. It's a thing where people do it as a hobby. Usually, they have the best stuff. The Germans are huge powwow hobbyists. They have a really weird fetish with Native Americans.
00:30:15
Speaker
That's wild. There goes super hard. But like, I didn't sing it. I was like looking around, there's a lot of jewelers and silversmiths. Not, no one was flint knapping. And like we had been talking with, especially with David recently about flint knapping. There wasn't a single, I didn't see anyone working stone. Check my last video on my YouTube. Yeah, that's interesting, dude. Cause that's something I noticed. Just not a single indigenous that someone was like, I, my daddy's checked. And I was like, I doubt it.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. I'm saying to bring in the ethnocynology boss and let's pull out some stones and just start working. Yeah. And I just love to hear about dogs and stuff from those people too, if they wouldn't mind, but I did like, again, like, like I pointed out in that video though, I do feel weird.
00:30:57
Speaker
going to a very indigenous event, just being like, Hey, remember this thing you used to do? That was your way of life. Watch this white dude do it, but I'm Jewish. And then I'm part of a tribe. Wouldn't go over well.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, but you're not like, cause the, cause I've seen it. I'm not an asshole. You're not the person that's like, I'm saving your culture. You're just participant. You know, like David's not that kind of guy that shows up. Like if it wasn't for me, you'd have lost this knowledge. It's like, fuck you dude. David's not that guy. No, but everyone was kind of asking about that kind of stuff, especially recently that, uh,
00:31:34
Speaker
you know, ponding history back in the day and how things were set up and people were asking about stone tools and they're like, so what kind of arrowhead did we use? Was it different? I'm like, no, well it's a thing called plain side notch and you find it from Alberta down to Texas. It's kind of like the ubiquitous, this is the mastery of arrowhead technology right here. This is what we all used.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah. You can get that in the West too. Yeah. In the desert, what the desert try notch. The only other thing is they add a little, little thing in the bottom. But yeah, that stuff exists basically across the whole US at that time. Just imagine like a Steve Jobs pony and he's like, all right, so you had this one. We added another notch. Now the software in this one is outdated and you're going to have to buy the try notch.
00:32:16
Speaker
He's wearing a, that turtleneck too and everything. The turtleneck turtleneck, please. It'll probably, I'll probably dive heat exhaustion, but I still want.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah, it was a whole. It was just fun to be around because usually the past couple years of how I was at the intertribals, I'm up in Shoshone land, but it was cool just to see all the Pawnee swag and whatever was doing it. You guys have seen that. I showed you that picture where I got that new ribbon shirt and the sleeves are dangling off the edge. I showed that to my sisters and they fucking lost it.
00:32:50
Speaker
I was like, where's your ribbon shirt? I'm like, so funny thing. And like show them the photo and they're like, holy shit, what the fuck happened? And I was just like, they didn't understand the measurements.
00:33:00
Speaker
So they're like, give it to us. We'll fix it for you. I was like, thank you. They're supposed to be a blouse. They're based off of a French blouse. That's why they're longer in certain parts. Huh. I did not know that. One time we got, I mean, this is irrelevant, but I had to order a suit for a friend's wedding, like rent one. And the shirt measurements were so far off that the shirt came down to like past my knees.
00:33:22
Speaker
And the company was like, can you send a photo and let us know what's wrong with it? And I just held my like hands out and it was like down to my feet and I said, yes, you sent me a shirt from the nation of Islam.
00:33:35
Speaker
It's like Gimli with the chain mail. It's a little shiny around the chest. Literally. Like how do you fuck the measurement up that bad? Was this my wedding? Possibly or Sam's. I think it was your wedding. Yeah. Cause all the shirt props. Yeah. Yours was also messed up and Michael blew through his pants. And on that note, we are going to end this segment and we will be right back with episode one 64 of our life and ruins podcast.
00:33:58
Speaker
Welcome back to episode 164, Nintendo 64 with Life and Earns podcast. I'm your host, David Howe, two of my co-hosts, Connor John and Carlton Gover. Carton? That Carton. Carlton, that was a fascinating talk. I appreciate it. The Carton of Milk. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Missing child. But yeah, Connor and I wanted to talk about Warren, a mammoth site in Wyoming.
00:34:25
Speaker
And the goal of this site was to find out if it was killed by humans or not. And that is very likely a no. It died a hundred years before Clovis arrives in Wyoming. So it was like a pretty like interesting, like possible, but it just was an elephant that died. I don't know. How do you want to know about this?
00:34:46
Speaker
It's paleontological. And the story of this comes from the landowner at the time was digging, he was digging a well or a water line or something, ends up popping through something. I think he sees the tusks or he sees some part of it. The guy doing the excavator, Gerardo, he found like the femoral head and he was like, oh shit, a dinosaur bone. Yeah.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, and then they proceeded to contact the University of Wyoming and bring us out there because we are interested in mammoths or people in our department are very interested in mammoths and all that kind of stuff. So that kind of set off a series of events that brought us to there.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah. And the reason Spencer got called the state archaeologist and Todd was because the guy originally called the paleontology department and because it was a mammoth found like at that level in Wyoming, pretty close to like other mammoth sites, they were like, I don't know if they carbon dated at first there or not with the paleontology.
00:35:49
Speaker
Regardless, they were like, you need to contact the Shippo, or like the state, I was opposite of the YM state archaeologist, because it's probably archaeological if it's that young, which is why it was excavated archaeologically. Because paleontologists just kind of dig around the bone, not looking for tiny microdebitash of stone tools around it. And I think that their preservation is the same. So like, ultimately, they find almost all the elements of it. They've got missing a tusk and they've got missing a mandible.
00:36:18
Speaker
The lower mandibles? Yeah, from what I saw.
00:36:22
Speaker
Yeah, the jaw, but they have lots of elements. And I think paleontologists would do the same thing we do, which is we cast it, save it, and go deal with it in the future. But the surrounding methods are significantly different. Like you wouldn't dig one by one meter units with a shovel or anything if you were doing it paleontologically. Yeah, they would just carve right in, kind of. Just blow through it. But digging there last year,
00:36:51
Speaker
for the whole time, it was like they found the femoral head. So the trench that was opened went past that to see where like the direction of which the bone should go. And as those units kept opening up, it was just like more and more long bones, more and more verts, more and more just like everything. And it was so cool to just, I time lapsed all of it. So like just seeing.
00:37:14
Speaker
a mammoth just slowly come out of the ground was really cool. And it was a female, I think full grown elephant. And I remember standing there looking at the femur and then the tibia, the fibula, we couldn't tell which one it was at the time, but measured that and then measured the femur. And that was already taller than me. So like, like just put the tape measure next to me. So I wasn't even up to this thing's fucking shoulder. Colombian mammoths are huge.
00:37:43
Speaker
Yeah, the way it landed or the way it kind of stopped and was preserved is face down, which is not how mammoths fall, you know? Yeah. Not much early, unless they're tripping. Unless you trip on a rock real bad and go face first, you generally just fall in place and or while you're running or whatnot. I thought it was ass up the way it fell. I can't remember. Because we were looking at- It's face down, ass up. That's the way they like to preserve.
00:38:12
Speaker
Because we were looking at the bottom of the mandible, the bottom of the max low is sticking out of the ground. But that's what I took pictures of at least. But the rest of the body could have been the other way. I don't remember. You're probably right. Either way, it wasn't killed and butchered. It just died and then got flooded over and deposited in sediment.
00:38:35
Speaker
Lots of post-ep stuff, lots of movement bones and whatnot. That's interesting. It was fun to be paleontologists for the weekend. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah, this year they had a bunch of stuff exposed. They found the tusk, which was super cool. Yeah, it was just like one of those cool things a lot of people came out that I haven't seen in years, just like, because everyone wants to come see a mammoth.
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah. Also some of the best field accommodations you could have. There's a house. Yeah. It's fantastic. Yeah. I'm always given beer or food. We got a question from someone on the ruins podcast recently. They're interested in doing archeology in graduate school and asked like, Hey, so they asked about accommodations and like just ask, like, so what can I expect? And what I had to tell them was it depends on the project.
00:39:21
Speaker
That has nothing to do with the kind of archeology you're doing or where you're located. It has everything to do with the project itself, what the funds are, what the deal is. You could be in a hotel, you could be in a tent, you could be in a car. It all just all just depends. Yeah, I feel like you could in funding can vary, but it's the way the people organize it and take into account stuff because you I've heard horror stories and especially like overseas of people not being prepared
00:39:50
Speaker
to be in that country, speak the language, or anything like that, and having a completely awful time. They had all the money in the world to do that, but they never took the steps to go actually do that. So it really is a crapshoot, and checking with people who've taken field schools before is probably the most important thing you could do. Yeah, and I guess a good way to answer the kid's question, too, would be like,
00:40:14
Speaker
if it's a historical archeological thing in the middle of a city, obviously you can't camp. So you probably get a hotel where there's some kind of like apartment, you rent the school, organize that or the project. But like where we work in the middle of desert in Wyoming, it's like you just camp out right next to the site. Cause why not? It's way cheaper. Yeah. I mean like, well in the nearest hotel is like an hour away and it's going to be like in
00:40:38
Speaker
the town of Buffalo that has maybe a motel eight. If you're lucky, you know, so it's like very much like, you know, at Helga, what are you going to do? Camping Guernsey? That's like a, you know, it's just not, uh, Harville, we're going to sunrise, man. Yeah. Yeah. That was when Lynch was weird because you guys were in like a monastery or like in an old church.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah. The first year they were out there, they did camp at the site and used the landowner's house and it quickly with like eight kids and the landowner, it was just too busy. So then we were able to set up accommodations and a Catholic maternity hospital turned into basically a bed and breakfast. It's a wild turn.
00:41:27
Speaker
Very well-turned. And then in the fucking Dominican Republic, I'm staying at a Sports Illustrated timeshare. So it's all very much like, I don't know what to say. I'm very excited to go back next week and get back in there and to live at a goddamn all-inclusive resort for a week and have a whole place to play. Is the flight and stuff paid for, too? I guess it's a question we should ask for someone listening. My research budget's covering it.
00:41:55
Speaker
Okay. If you don't have a research budget, that's the deal. It's like you got to pay the prices weren't too bad. Like I think mine total was like 800 bucks and I only booked it like a week ago. So like a three week notice to an international flight to the DR. That's usually the catch. If you can, if you can afford to get to this project in the DR, everything else is taken care of. Gotcha. And that's a pretty, pretty sweet deal. I think.
00:42:19
Speaker
I think there's a push and attempt to make these things cheaper, more affordable, have scholarships, et cetera, because they are course classes in most cases. So you have to pay the overhead of the school, which can be a lot. And then your travel, usually your food's covered, et cetera. But there is a push and there are good organizations out there that will give you scholarships and help
00:42:44
Speaker
and aid with field schools because they can be painfully, painfully expensive.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah. And it's usually food costs. Like after doing some of the budgets with Doug and Marcel, the single most expensive thing running a project is always food cost. And I know to lighten that load to make the CU Boulder field school cheaper, Doug and KC basically like breakfast is on your own, which I hate it. I think out of the, like lunch should be on your own. Like breakfast is the most important meal for field school, having a hot breakfast where you can get the day started and have that energy.
00:43:18
Speaker
You're right. My whole field school, every, every meal was on us. I didn't think about that. Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. Like breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yeah. I'd be miserable. So I mean, mostly students spent their weekends having to go cause like the town of Lynch, their supermarket going to support us, especially some of those Colorado kids that are fucking vegans. Like there's no vegan food in Lynch, Nebraska. Uh, you know what I mean? Yeah.
00:43:45
Speaker
or the vegetables that they needed so they'd have to go like Sioux Falls or somewhere to load up. So I mean... That's a good point. I saw a recent article about like ableism and archaeology and infield work and stuff and it made me think both ways on the topic, but like there's no way to get around getting into a giant trench with units and digging with a shovel in a wheelchair. Like you can't do it unless you like made a specific ramp and like, you know, I mean, I guess I shouldn't say you can't, you could do it.
00:44:14
Speaker
It's just, it's already physically demanding enough for people who are able to walk and crawl in there and dig and lift buckets and things. So I do understand though that somebody in a wheelchair that can't walk or has, you know, is missing an arm or something or somebody with just like RA, like rheumatoid arthritis that can't do too much. Like what if they want to be an archaeologist? How do they do it? And like, I guess you would just do mostly lab work, but a lot of the stuff is in the field. So that's another thing you got to think about.
00:44:42
Speaker
I think there's, and I think there are field schools that you could probably find that are less intensive in those sorts of mobility ways, maybe something historic where you're. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it seems like a really difficult topic. Like I think we want, we always want to include everyone, but the reality, sometimes the reality of our discipline is that it's backbreaking work in remote areas that are hard to get to. And
00:45:12
Speaker
I don't know. It's difficult. That's not a comment onto prejudice against disabled folks in various shapes. It can be very similar to construction work, right? If you can't physically get there or be able to move or do these things, it's like what you can't.
00:45:34
Speaker
But yeah, I know there's a very big more push. Mississippi State is doing a curatorial field school, so there's definitely a lot more pushes for folks who want to be engaged actively in archaeological collections and parts of the archaeological excavation process to get that training to be able to do the hands-on research, which I'm a huge proponent of. And I do know it sometimes gets tricky with
00:45:58
Speaker
Even one of the things that we faced a lot is single-parent households not being able to do field schools because what are their kids doing? You cannot bring your kid most days to, it's probably against university policy, let alone
00:46:16
Speaker
like the dangers of bringing someone out to lynch what 100 degrees and miserable. Or if you're doing school just as someone who runs a family and has to work like you can't just leave for six weeks for a field school.
00:46:30
Speaker
Yeah. Or even when it comes to the diet stuff, like don't care if you're vegan or vegetarian, but it's like you better be taking Omega-3 pills. Like if you're not taking your supplements, you will not have a fun time out here. And honestly, I love those kids because especially in hot days, they're like coal mines in the canaries. If the vegans start going down, I know I need to get everyone else drinking water.
00:46:48
Speaker
They're the first ones to go and it's like, all right, so now everyone stop what you're doing, vegans go in the shade, drink water, take your omega-3 pills, everyone else start chugging. It's like, there's that rank because they're not getting the, you know, it's just like field work. I don't care about your choices. I mean, there's one poor kid we had one year who was going through a multitude of medical issues and we're like, dude, we respect your decision to be a vegan, but you did not bring any of the supplements you needed for you. You are going to eat this fucking chicken breast.
00:47:17
Speaker
because or you will die. Yeah. If it helps, it came from down the street. It was an organic free range chicken.
00:47:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the other option is I guess he would go to town and get food or where you're going to bring it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was the supplement issue. It's like they didn't have to see those lifestyles. Supplement says in like pills. Yeah. Like they weren't taking because a vegan diet does not provide all the necessary nutrients you need. So like it showed. So they didn't bring them. That's like, you can go home, you can fail the course or like whatever the deal is, or you can just eat this chicken breast and you will be fine.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah. That also reminds me too, when I was doing, I guess I did two field schools. Like I did Topper. It was just like a month out there. And then the next month I did my actual like paid for field school at Topper though. And LaPrelle here in Wyoming and Warren, like there's always like.
00:48:14
Speaker
cook rotations. People help cook and there's a cooking tent or a cooking kitchen where everyone cooks. And then you have a buffet style. You walk down the table making your dinner essentially. And that was the same at Topper, but at the time I had to be medically... It was medically necessary. I was gluten-free and it was the south. Everything was just fried fucking
00:48:37
Speaker
like really delicious food and I couldn't eat a lot of it and especially sandwiches at lunch too so I would just have to eat you know cold cuts on its own and then gluten-free bread tastes disgusting and usually the refrigerated so that was hard but anyway the the person cooking every day would be like can you eat this can you eat this and I was just learning about gluten-free and I was like I think so and she was like corn starch is just corn and I was like
00:49:00
Speaker
I don't know, probably not. So she had to make like a specific thing for me and my friend Kelsey, who was also gluten-free and like behind her back, she would call us the celiac twins because like she just hated having to cook a separate meal. So just be aware of that. Like, and especially the one where I had to bring my own food every time. Like I had a cooler with ice in it and I just prayed that the, you know, ice wasn't melted. I think, I think you can solve that.
00:49:28
Speaker
at least initially with the communication with your professors or being upfront about these things. And sometimes you might not be able to do that field school. You might not be able to do it because of your restrictions. And that's just life. That's just the way things are. But you have to upfront tell people these things. Otherwise, they're not going to be able to prep because they have to keep you safe for the next month or so. And it's rough environments. It's hot.
00:49:55
Speaker
you're going to be miserable. They need to know these things. That also goes with CRM too. When I was doing the mountain valley pipeline project, I always had breakfast and you have to bring your lunch, bowl it around. There was one part of the project that was an hour out that we did stop at a gas station and everyone knows gas stations in the South all have kitchens.
00:50:17
Speaker
And so people started relying on that for breakfast. And then when we weren't going there, half the crew wasn't doing well in the morning because they thought they're going to get a hot chicken biscuit sandwich. And it's like, yeah, you just got to do it. Yeah. Well, on that depressing note, if you want to do a field school, check with the professors, check with the school, it should be fine. And I'd say most of them are probably fed.
00:50:41
Speaker
and you should have accommodations. But if you can't sleep outside in a tent, if you're allergic to pollen, be upfront about that and make sure you ask those questions. But yeah, be sure to rate and review the podcast. We appreciate it. Thanks for sending us the questions, Connor.
00:50:55
Speaker
I was just going to have one more thing. There is a push in in archaeology to to work with people with different abilities. So be aware and ask around. We can probably put you in touch with people. So, yeah, but thank you once again for listening. Appreciate y'all. Sorry for the Zen caster. Fuck up if it happened. You know, let us know so we can take care of it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's it. So.
00:51:29
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archaeologists in from the cold and feed them beer. And if you made it this far, you know what time it is. It is time for Connor's witty joke. I'm going to come. What do you call a number that can't keep still?
00:52:02
Speaker
A roaming world. Wow. It's pretty good. Scraping the bottom of the barrel on that one, Connor. That's where I live. Okay, I thought we were up.
00:52:30
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.