Gobliiins

Transcript

Speaker: It's Quest Quest with Benny and the Gooch. All right. And now for the Gooch's goof of the week.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: Hey, Ben, how's it going? It's time for your Goof of the Week. Oh, my Goof of the Week. the Goof of the Week. This week I saw someone get out of their car and they they got clipped like by a passing car. I think they were okay. Goof them up.

Speaker: There you go. See, you asked last week. Yeah, no, it was my mistake. I wasn't ready to embody the gooch yet. You, you, you reaped the whirlwind.

Speaker: Don't worry this week. I will have my eye on the gooch.

Speaker: Um, how are doing today, Jess? You know, Ben, i'm bad I'm fantastic. I'm fantastic. How are you? um All right. I'm all right. You know how it is and these days. du It's been ah a rainy weekend.

Speaker: nice It's soggy. It's soggy feet. Oh, no. Oh, no. I also i had a earlier today. i had a terrible, a terrible situation, which was.

Speaker: so ah I looked at my calendar and this was the only thing on my calendar today was recording this podcast. So you've been prepping all day long.

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I did. i did prep today. That was, i was like, okay, well then I'll, I'll play this fucking game for this. Um, but, i

Speaker: Uh, so like, uh, I was up a little early, so i was like, oh yeah, you know, I'll, I'll go. And there's this a nice little breakfast place nearby and I'll walk over to this, this nice breakfast place. And I had a big, you know delicious egg sandwich and a big cup of coffee.

Speaker: Then I get a text, uh, from my friend who's like, all right, I'm, I'm almost, uh, uh, to the diner. I'll see you there in a little bit. And i realized I made breakfast plans oh earlier this week and i am did you double breakfast i didn't double breakfast i i said well the and this was this was my friend steve and i getting ah like our our ritual is we have breakfast and then we we write our incredible comic phil which you can read on instagram uh phil comics or you can go to have your phil phil.com um

Speaker: And so it's that we have breakfast and then we go to a coffee shop and then we we write for a while. um And so I said, whoops, not on my calendar, but I'm out and I don't have any plans. So I'll just walk over there for a coffee.

Speaker: as And you could start breakfast without me. i i'll I'll just have a coffee with you. And so I had a coffee at the breakfast place. Mm hmm. Then I go to this diner.

Speaker: and And once you got there, you realized you'd booked two breakfasts there with two different people. And you had to run back and forth yeah from one side of the restaurant to the other the entire time trying to keep both of these breakfast dates from knowing about the other. And meanwhile, I'd already had a breakfast. So I was having second. I was like having a hobbit style situation. And you're having to like run to the bathroom constantly because of having already had one. So it was like bathroom, Steve, other person, bathroom, Steve, other person.

Speaker: But anyway, so the next part, well, well, Steven, like, so I go and I have a coffee at this diner. Then our, like, ah where we write is there's this really lovely Vietnamese coffee place that we both ah love in the city.

Speaker: and We go over there to write. And I order, ah like, and I get a coffee there. And I'm, like, two sips into this coffee. And I realize...

Speaker: I've had way too much coffee today. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. And especially, like, it's like this Vietnamese coffee, which is already quite strong. So I'm, like, a couple sips into this this lovely ah coffee they they made, and I'm just like, I, like, I can't even drink this. How many cups are we talking by this point?

Speaker: Uh, it was... Honestly, it wasn't even... It was that the coffee at the first breakfast place was pretty strong. The diner coffee is generally... It's it's just diner coffee. So it has no effect. It's just hot brown water.

Speaker: Yeah. um And then... But the Vietnamese coffee is, like, extremely caffeinated. It's not goingnna mess around. And so... It's like probably the first coffee was enough coffee for the day, right? Or at least for a couple hours. And then the diner coffee was just kind of ambient thing to drink with a mild caffeinating effect.

Speaker: ah But then like this, this final coffee was like rocket fuel. And I was just like, oh, like I was starting to feel like my, you know, my whole skin started to itch.

Speaker: Oh, you're in the zone.

Speaker: You're in the Java zone. Oh, yeah. You know, just a couple of weeks ago, i made a horrible mistake, coffee related.

Speaker: oh yeah. i was i was getting ready to teach a class, and I thought to myself, I've got a little bit of low energy. i don't have a lot pep in my step. um So i go downstairs to the vending machines in my building. And and you love vending machines. Nobody loves vending machines more than me. You'd think I would have some sort of like free pass at them, but no, have to pay like every other Joe on the street. Yeah.

Speaker: So I go down and I don't, you know, I don't drink hot coffee. I don't like hot beverages in general. That's the devil's temperature. So, I do enjoy, though, a nice Starbucks double shot, like one of those nice canned double shot espresso-y. It's basically like caffeinated sweet milk.

Speaker: um Is this the one in the glass bottle? No, it's the one in like where the energy drink can. Like it looks more like an energy drink. Yes. And I don't think I was paying close attention what was doing because I overstepped and got a triple shot, which, Ben, that's 50% more shot.

Speaker: yeah And let me tell you, i got in class like 10 minutes later and it felt like I had an additional heart in my chest. It was. you became a time Lord.

Speaker: yeah Yeah, exactly. Yes. i was I was slipping in and out of this reality while teaching. And I felt like occasionally I would realize I was reaching the end of the sentence before my brain had done so. Like my mouth would just already be on to the next. Was this your fun video games class or was this, you know, just.

Speaker: No, this was a you know, but boring old politics. Yeah, this was like explaining balance of power systems in 19th century Europe, which really the faster you can go, the more students are going to appreciate it. You know, it's like, let me tell you about the Crimean War ah kind of energy. So yeah, it was, it was not good stuff, Ben. It was, yeah, I mean, can't have the triple shot, double shot.

Speaker: I'm still a human being, triple shot. um uh yeah i'm i'm in a different different different mode at that point it's not a good one i did think for a minute like god be cool if i died up here like all these students have a story for the rest of their lives about the time my perfect and as i went down i'd be like it was the triple shot yeah and yeah could have had one of those panera Oh God, I drink so many that Ben, I'm not joking. Like we had a standing dinner date with some friends at Panera Bread because their daughter really loved Panera. So we went like every weekend to Panera Bread on Sunday and met with some friends.

Speaker: And I kid you not. I bet I would go on a Sunday and have like over the course of the hour or two, we'd hang out there like three cups of that deadly lemonade from Panera bread. You know what? Never felt better in my life. ah I feel like I am living a worse life now that that has been like banned by the FDA. And also how have we not unbanned that?

Speaker: Like we we don't have bans on or regulations on anything else anymore. Why can't I get my deadly lemonade anymore? I don't know. i don't know. Jess, I'm going to press on because we've we have we've some business yeah today before before get to the game. oh is you Do you have an apology? No, I don't have an apology. But we do have we have emails. So I'm going to ask you, speaking of emails, what have you been playing?

Speaker: Ben, you blindsided me. I was like, I've got like three minutes while Ben reads this email. We typically do.

Speaker: playing first. But yeah, but you were like segueing into the other thing. Yeah, i know. I zagged you. You zagged me. ah

Speaker: Wait, was that the phantom? I don't know. I was told that the phantom was gone for good. Why, there hasn't been a phantom around here for nigh on 100 years.

Speaker: No, I've been, why have been playing? Let me tell you why been playing. I've been playing. Vampire, The Masquerade, Bloodlines

Speaker: Oh boy, yes. I have. Well, you know, that image is such a game that never existed. Absolutely. No, I mean, and actually skeeted about this on Blue Sky recently where that game had been like Schrodinger's game for me for so long in that it most simultaneously in my head had been released and completely flopped or was releasing sometime in the next four months.

Speaker: and like Both of those quantum states were a reality in my head. So I finally figured the only way will ever know if this game came out is if I purchase it and play it So I've been playing Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2.

Speaker: And you because, mean, when's the next chance I'm going to get to play like vampire, modern day vampire adventure? Those are few and far between. Yeah, no, I can't think of, I can't think of any, uh, vampire adventures. It can't be like a porn game. Like I need it to be like, acceptable.

Speaker: It can't be adults only. Um, that's, that's a non-starter for me You know, like, and the worst thing for me is my, like, you know, I'm not even into those vampire masquerade type games. I'd prefer them if it was like more like kind of a slower pace where it's like kind of like a visual novel style. That would be my ideal vampire adventure game is that if it was like, you know, really like gorgeous illustrations and then like, you know, lengthy text.

Speaker: Where are you going to get that? as Like a choose. Who makes amazing sounding games like that here in 2026? I don't think anyone does. But wait, Jess. Wait, what? Is there breaking news coming in across the wire? Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep

Speaker: course we're talking about our friend richard

Speaker: Nighthawks game, which is out this week. Yeah, it should be out. Like, I believe it's Thursday. This has been in the future when he edited the episode.

Speaker: It's out Tuesday, which is today. All right. Goodbye. yeah the the time of this record coming in. But anyway, yeah but, but Jess, I am actually quite curious about, because all I know about vampire, the masquerade bloodlines too, is that it took forever to come out.

Speaker: Then in the lead up to it coming out, like it was one of those games that had like a little bit of a, Like, people got really upset about how it price-gated, like, factions. Yes, which they walked back. Which they walked back.

Speaker: Not doing, yes. but ah But, like, I think the damage was pretty done by private that Like, I think people... And then I remember the reviews for it being, like, kind of underwhelming.

Speaker: um And then... but but like... ah My like it it. It just so doesn't exist.

Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. It didn't make an impression on anyone like just came and went like. yeah Yeah, no. And I mean, that is. sort of the experience I've played about two hours so far. um And which I've gotten kind of like a sense of what the overarching story is starting to look like. And I will say it isn't the disaster that I think it could be made out to be. The the worst thing about the game so far is that it's called bloodlines too.

Speaker: I think if this were just released as a vampire, the masquerade game, or just a generic, vampire game without the IP, it would actually be, you know, pretty charming. It's nothing deep. Like it's really not an RPG anymore. Like it's definitely the action elements have replaced a lot of of like stats and ability leveling up sort of stuff.

Speaker: It's more like ah a standard action game now, which that alone makes it a weird thing to call a sequel to Bloodlines. If you're losing the RPG elements by and large.

Speaker: But, you know, it's stylish. It has some really great voice acting. It's a so gorgeous looking game. ah the The storyline, um curiously enough, has a little bit in common with another Wadged Eye game. There's a bit of a, what I'd call a Blackwell twist to the story in this one that is fun and unexpected in Vampire the Masquerade game. So, yeah, it's...

Speaker: it's not bad. Like I'm actually enjoying it quite bit. I think I will probably play all 20 hours of it or ever how long it is. It's, uh, yeah, better than I think it got a reputation for being, but the expectations on it, it would have been hard for anything short of like, uh,

Speaker: you know, triple A Baldur's Gate 3 Cyberpunk 2077 type game, I think, to to meet the kind of expectations that people had in their heads for a sequel to Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines.

Speaker: Which is funny, since that game's a janky mess, too. Yeah, it's really funny that that, like... But, you know, it was a Troika game, right? That was Troika. wasn't Obsidian. It was Troika, right? Correct. Yes. And all of, like, Troika's games are kind of like these, like, in early Obsidian are, like, these games ah where it's just, like...

Speaker: you know, there's there's more kind of like they're they're all kind of defined by they were almost really, really good. just The potential they represent. Yeah, no, I mean, at this point, and think it's such a cliche to suggest that the original Bloodlines was an underrated game. It's like now it may be the most overrated, underrated game in gaming history. It's funny because, like, to your point, I would not think...

Speaker: that bloodlines is a game that needs a sequel because it was to your, like, I can't imagine it sold that well because it like, but like, I bet in, I, I, I bet the, the thought process behind it was something like kind of similar to it's like, well, yeah, we'll make a Baldur's gate three, like all these years later.

Speaker: But the Baldur's Gate, you know, those two games are are still kind of like ah they like they were, you know, popular PC RPGs.

Speaker: Yeah. And bloodlines was like kind of cult hit that you needed to download like multiple fan patches. Right. And I love all those fans. I mean, I've played through bloodlines so many times with the fan patches and with the added content put back in and, you they've done updates to the textures and everything. i mean, it's a,

Speaker: The fan community around that is incredible. But yeah, I mean, the fact that there has to be a fan community around it releasing multi gigabyte patches every three or four weeks tells you a lot about the state that that game ah came out in. I mean, it I enjoyed it from the beginning. Like I bought it, released, played through it, loved it.

Speaker: um But yeah, it is curious. I mean, I understand why if you're sales department, you think we've got to call this thing bloodlines too. That's going to guarantee, like out of the gate, that's going to guarantee a sales.

Speaker: But then to deliver something that, again, is I would argue not even in the same genre as, as the, mean, it almost be like if you took one of those Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games and had called it Baldur's Gate 3.

Speaker: People have been pretty upset that now it's this weird isometric action break crates kind of game.

Speaker: Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. yeah but I've been playing Bloodlines 2. What have you been playing, man? I have been playing kind of a ah classic game that I would play for this. This is a game that was recommended to me ah a little bit ago, like a year or two ago, by a by our friend Mike.

Speaker: ah It's ah the game Die for the Economy. It's this ah indie arcade game I'm playing on Steam. um i don't know if it's on anything else. um But Die for... It is a ah Are you familiar with ah Berserk?

Speaker: The arcade game Berserk? From the early 80s? Like the run through the maze yeah and the robot guys? or yeah yes Yeah, I'm looking at yes it. has the robot It has the smiley face that kind of bounces out after you.

Speaker: And it has like the hilarious Cylon style like robotic voices. Like... coward yes and it's attract mode is like scary right like isn't that a part yeah and uh so you know die for the economy is a uh is is a like a berserk come up it's just a berserk type game um and it's a lot of fun you know And they have the the robot stuff and it has a little bit of a, you know, social satire aspect of the like a dive for the economy. Like you're, you know, have this miserable job that you're working.

Speaker: um But yeah, you know, yeah, you know, it's just your your typical indie riffing on a beloved arcade classic that's like a little bit better, a little bit more fun to play. ah I'm looking at the key art for this game and the protagonist looks kind of like...

Speaker: a doctor who if doctor who was like a vole or some sort of mole rat or something is that comment on all of the game i don't believe that the game uh brings up that uh the character uh look like looks like a doctor who it should yeah uh i'll send that note to t monster games yes alright and yes i mean absolutely i'd like just ask them if there's any chance that this is meant to be uh the long scarf doctor uh tom baker uh no uh not a baker a time lord oh okay very good all right well speaking of bakers it's time for us to read some emails we have two this week all right our first one comes from our friend quill he begins

Speaker: Hey Ben and Jess, I really enjoyed the Gabriel Knight 1 episode. Thank you. i appreciate an overview of a game that focuses on what you two are interested in even if it doesn't cover all or even most of the content.

Speaker: Wait now, wait, wait a second. Why do so many of our emails start with some sort of very hedged compliment like that, you know?

Speaker: ah It has that personal touch, plus the fact that you avoid going through the game means it's less likely to entirely spoil it for me as if it happens to be one I've never played before. As for what I liked about the game, strangely enough, I like most like the two puzzles that are very different. I like i did like the mime puzzle because it is essentially a dynamic part of the environment that was right in front of me as a player, and I was rewarded for paying attention and learning to exploit its logic.

Speaker: What liked about Goblins 2, and I want to note...

Speaker: Goblins with three eyes. Oh, which is it? Comma two, T-O-O-O. Oh, okay. So the first Goblins game, which is mostly made up of such puzzles.

Speaker: God, how amazing it would be if Goblins 2 was Goblins, T-O-O. That would make it so much more frustrating. But I also liked an inventory object puzzle that was completely inscrutable for most of the game, colon. A weird knot hole in one of the confessionals at the church.

Speaker: You explore the whole place, you mess with the priest, you locate and gather up a lot of things, but here's part of the location it seems like you should be able to interact with, but are only told how your attempts to do so fail.

Speaker: Only towards the end of the game, very, very far away, do you pick up something that fits in that knot hole, and when you use them together, you find out that the world you thought you knew was very different underneath the surface. Something about that was very satisfying despite the fact that wasn't always happy with how we got there.

Speaker: Finally, i have a third take about day old titles or the day count titles. Okay, okay, okay, okay. okay Colin, it's like red chalk.

Speaker: Or wait, no, it is. No, it's not like it is red chalk. I don't know why I added the like. it is It's red chalk like the one used for drawing the symbols on the mausoleum wall.

Speaker: Why is it dripping? Because it's New Orleans and it's humid. It's the heat gathers in the morning. It starts taking some the chalk with it as it flows down the wall. Questfully yours.

Speaker: Questfully yours is a great sign off. We should still bet. Now, Ben, I know we will never see eye to eye on whether or not those Well, I think it's blood. I think it's blood because it's a game about murders, but Ben and voodoo stuff. And it yeah, I mean, there's lots of good reasons why it would be blood, but I mean, there is a guy next door who is curious about a painting, right? Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh yeah. So, right. No, I mean, we'll never see eye to eye on this, but can we at least agree? It is definitely not chalk. Yeah, I don't think it's chalk, but I think chalk is, you know, not bad.

Speaker: you know So you'd say it's better than blood is a possible. oh yeah, I think it's better than blood. Okay, so your ranking would be paint, chalk, chalk, blood. blood

Speaker: And remember, paint, chalk, blood. If you want to add to this power ranking, questquestpodcast at gmail.com, do you want to hear this other email? No, I'm good.

Speaker: Well, you're gonna. um Well, thank you, Cleo. First of all, for writing in. Hey, you know, that knot hole in the confessional booth, ah yeah I think that's always a tough one for adventure game design. Like the...

Speaker: The thing that you know is there forever when the actual doodad that fits into it doesn't come until much later in the game, I think can be a maddening experience. I kind of always expect, maybe this is the Ron Gilbert rules of adventure games speaking to me. I feel like when you encounter something like that, you're a lock that needs a key.

Speaker: you kind of expect the key to be obtainable not long after you see the lock. And yeah, that that one bit is rewarding when you finally get to It's like finally something I can stick in that hole.

Speaker: All right. Email number two.

Speaker: The subject title is games for kids. Hello. Thanks for your show. I appreciate all the nostalgia and as well as the new recommendations. My first adventure game was Space Quest III, which must have gotten when was six or seven in 1989 when we got our first computer.

Speaker: I often credit the Space Quest series for teaching me to type and it was good for reading practice too. Now my own son is turning seven and I want him to learn reading and typing and unwinnable game states too.

Speaker: Do you have any recommendations on good adventure games for kids? Ones that I could just let them loose on. Ones that we could play together. It's probably not Norco, at least this year. Thanks. Yeah, that was my answer. i was going to say, well, it doesn't have typing, but you've got to get this kid on Norco.

Speaker: Well, I mean, immortality, yeah, I mean, know her story has typing. Let's let's go with that. and I think a a good evidence-based mystery like that.

Speaker: Ooh, what is a good game with typing to set it? Like if we think back to like an older parser type interface, I mean, Space Quest 3 is not a bad starting point in terms of it has bright, colorful, what now almost look like intentionally retro graphics.

Speaker: ah so So first, i think I think there's a couple parts to this question, right? well First one is, it's like, what's one to let him loose on, right? Yes. and And I don't know necessarily, like ah like, typing first. Like, just, like, what's a what's a game?

Speaker: I mean, honestly. letting kid loose in Salmon Max. Oh, I was going to say, like, any of the humongous games. Yeah, that's, ah I mean, yeah, if you really actually want to go with a kid game, those are fantastic. like they they the The humongous games are like the ones that I have played.

Speaker: ah I've played a couple the Freddy's, Freddy Fishes, and um You got stuck on Putt-Putt Goes to the Moon. And I've played a ah a Pajama Sam And those are a lot of fun.

Speaker: i really ah I really enjoyed visiting those as an adult. and i like And I thought, like playing them, I didn't play them as a kid.

Speaker: a ah Playing them, I thought, man, if I played... i like these games I think pajama Sam is is meant for like a seven-year-old yeah you take a yeah Spy Fox I think is one out of that that run that maybe reads for slightly older older kid yeah nine-year-old yeah probably so yeah but that's a great point because a those are charming games you can leave a kid with them and not have to worry about what they're likely to encounter

Speaker: and they're pretty solid adventure games. Like, but you know, in terms of learning about this genre, I think they're good for getting your feet wet with just sort of the idea of what adventure game puzzles look like. You know, they're not yeah they're not dumbed down multimedia products where you just click on stuff and, like, somebody pops out of the cupboard and waves at you and goes back behind it.

Speaker: So then... So that's like, so that's first. So that's like, you know, um you know, just what's a game like yeah for a kid. And then like, obviously for both of us and, and for, for, for Nat here, like all three of us play these like, because you know, I like, as I've said, I remember playing like King's quest, like the original King's quest, like as like a toddler.

Speaker: Um, And so it's like all of those games are are playable, but, you know, like, you know, like, I don't know if a kid's patience when other options are available now.

Speaker: Like, I don't know if I'd have the patience for it as a kid today. Right. yeah Like, I don't know. Like, I'm sure any kid could figure it out. But these days, though, Ben,

Speaker: yeah But you know what I'm saying? joe No, I do. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I was able to figure out King's Quest 2 as a nine-year-old because it could afford to become my entire existence until I figured it out. Like i I could carve out space in my life so that it's like, okay, I have to go to school for six hours a day and the remaining 18 hours can be spent thinking about King's Quest 2 because i couldn't just go on the internet or you know go down and and pop on Peacock and stream all the greatest Peacock shows that are currently out there um so yeah no I mean i think there is some appeal I think even with kids

Speaker: just to even if they are making progress in the game to walk around and explore and tap things and see what happens. But so, yeah, I mean, I'm wondering, are there Sierra parser games that are friendly entry points? Like it's probably, mean, Ben, is it the answer that we always come back to?

Speaker: you just hand that kid Heroes Quest 1? Do you just give him Quest for Glory 1 with the parser? And just say, have at it. this This is as good as it gets. It's not going get any better than this. So have fun.

Speaker: Now, doesn't have the freaky claymation, guys. Yeah, I'm trying to think, what is something with, like, is there an adventure game with, like, again, like, you know, everybody listening to this podcast is is like, I played the those games as a kid.

Speaker: fine. Right. Yeah. And you know, kids are smart and kids also have like, as you were saying, kids also have like, you know, the ability to just kind of think about like, you know, they'll play a that game and, you know, just kind of think about it all day. Then have to think about our mortgages, our golf game. Yeah.

Speaker: Just area extensive stock portfolios. Yes. I'm constantly having to check the stock app on my phone. Um, but this is This is interesting, and and I know that a couple parents listened to this as well, so i'm you know please send us an email at questquestpodcasts at gmail.com. You are a parent. Jess, have you ever played an adventure game with your daughter who is who's a little older than Nat's kid?

Speaker: Well, you know, the reason that I mentioned Sam and Max is because when she was even much younger than that, when she was probably... three or four, she was obsessed with Sam and Max hit the road and mostly really, yes. And just wanted to watch the opening and then kind of click around their office and down onto the street where the cat and the DeSoto are hanging out. I don't know that she ever met past that, but she used to ask pretty frequently if I could put on the dog and rabbit game for her.

Speaker: And That one really clicked for her. And like, she thought it was really hilarious just to watch the character, but she was much younger. I mean, just the idea that I could click on something and a funny rabbit would say a joke.

Speaker: is probably when we're thinking about a seven-year-old, you know, maybe a little bit, there may be expected a little more. and and and And your daughter always, even from a young age, appreciated the coastal sophistication that Sam and Max had to offer. Absolutely. yeah she's the Yeah, she's not like one of these hicks in a flyover state that Sam and Max would be completely lost on.

Speaker: Yeah. Now, I mean, i wonder also, If like, you know, I talked about it and i even did a whole like podcast about like playing Wishbringer with my older sister and she treated it like reading a story to me.

Speaker: Oh, now that has potential. And so I wonder, like, I think Wishbringer would be a good one. It is a little scary and it scared me, but it was like, I...

Speaker: Like, it was scary in a way that I found enjoyable as a kid. i don't, you know, mileage varies for kids, right? Yeah. um I bet that there's probably i interactive,

Speaker: like, interactive fiction that has been made, like, post-Infocom. Like, amateur interactive fiction. Yes. That... could be could be played in that manner that is a little a little easier. i mean, let me let me Google this.

Speaker: Interactive fiction for kids. I mean, surely there's something on, like, IFDB, the Interactive Fiction Database,

Speaker: um you know, ah that ah you know i would be i'd be interested if... in in something like in something like that i wonder if uh if any of the listeners are because like i'm looking here and it like i pulled up like iftb has a starter pack for those new to and interactive fiction but those aren't like games for kids yeah those are just people not familiar with this genre presumably like it has it has stuff and so i wonder i i would be shocked if in the the like in the

Speaker: world of interactive fiction and games like made by inform, like, like typing interactive fiction. Um, uh, that there, uh, isn't, uh, one for, all right. So here we go.

Speaker: Um, this is, uh, a, uh, a blog here uh, uh, That is top 50 IF stories for kids for people age 10 to 16 and older.

Speaker: um And let's let's read here. it's Number one, Arthur quest for Excalibur, which is a very late infocom.

Speaker: Number two lost. With the aardvark, right? Like it's. No. Number two is Lost Pig, which is a an original ah like that you can find on IFDB for free.

Speaker: Number three is Wishbringer, said. ah Number four is The Firebird. Not familiar with that one. So on, ah let me let me make a ah note of this here.

Speaker: And, ah you know, hopefully this is on... the the blog Teaching and Learning with Interactive Fiction. ah And hopefully I put that in the notes.

Speaker: We'll see. Hard to say. Impossible to say. It's impossible to say because, you know, anyway. So, yeah, because I think there might be a way. I think there might be a way to, like, play a text IF game and make it like a, you know, first you're you're telling a story, like, with your kid and then, you know, maybe there's a way to teach typing. Wishbringer might be a really good one for that, but I bet I haven't played Lost Pagan forever, but I know that's like kind of a like a starter ah interactive fiction game. that's is that like a Black Cauldron game? Isn't that the plot of that game too?

Speaker: Yes. um Henwin?

Speaker: But, like, yeah, here's the description of Lost Pig. Pig lost! Boss say that it Grunk fault. Say Grunk forget about the about closing gate. Maybe Boss right.

Speaker: Grunk not remember forgetting. But maybe Grunk just forget. Now Grunk need find Pig. Zunk Zunk. And here we go. ah ah The...

Speaker: most helpful review of this game is 10 year olds review of lost pigs it was very fun and exciting and i liked the characters especially grunk well i'm hearing a lot of good things about grunk but you know i wouldn't put him in charge of my pig ah all right well well jess Well, I think it's I think it's time.

Speaker: We've had a lot of fun talking about these these great emails and about the games that we've been playing.

Speaker: But I think it's time for us to to talk about a game which spoiler apologies ah to the the fans out there, which I feel safe saying neither of us liked.

Speaker: No, no. And I will say like doubly, this was tough on me because when Ben said, Jess, we're going to do ah cocktail game.

Speaker: I thought it was going to be one of the erotic adventures. Yeah. And I was as like, are we doing fascination? Are we doing geisha? I don't know problematic that is, but I'm willing to tackle it. Isn't there an Emmanuel?

Speaker: There's an Emmanuel. There's a Rochelle Rochelle. Yeah, no. i don't I don't think it ever occurred to me we would be talking about goblins.

Speaker: Goblins! Goblins! Goblins! Yes, we're talking about the first Goblins game. Goblins! Goblins! All right, so let's talk a little bit about our history with with this this game.

Speaker: Let me take you all the way back to September of 2026. Jess, is this the first time you ever played this game? Have you ever played any Goblins? No.

Speaker: No, never Goblin's Moon. Have you ever played a Woodruff in the Schnibble? No, no Woodruffs, no the Schnibbles, none of it. um And I will say, this is not by accident.

Speaker: Every time I saw one of these games pop up an Interaction magazine in Sierra's in-house news magazine, I couldn't flip those pages quickly enough. I was just like, don't care for whatever this is. Don't like the style.

Speaker: Don't like this genre of puzzle driven, less narrative adventures. Like everything about is like, this game is not for me. I treat it the same way. Like when Sierra would be like,

Speaker: oh, you should like see this new Sierra Home Chef software that will manage your recipes. I'd be like, all right, those are four pages of interaction that I don't need to read this month. i can just flip on through.

Speaker: You know, when I, you know what I think when I think of goblins and goblins? Mm-hmm. Ah, the French champagne. Yeah, it's it's a French game, all right.

Speaker: ah um i first played i played ah i've played the first three goblins games okay the canonical original run uh yeah so i've not played the the the latter day the the latter day trilogy i guess um i have played i i played them in the 90s i played them around their release and um And I am quite fond of Goblins 2.

Speaker: And I enjoyed Goblins 3 okay. Okay.

Speaker: ah End of sentence. Yeah, but we aren't talking about either of those games that Ben either enjoyed or kind of enjoyed. i You know, and it's it's not even that I disliked three.

Speaker: it was it was just I liked two so much more. okay um Okay. But one ah i I remember playing, and it was just very clearly not not there.

Speaker: Like, it was just not... It's so i i mean, so so goblins has a plot.

Speaker: Goblins has a plot, which is that the, the king who we love someone, some mysterious character, ah has made a voodoo doll yes of the king.

Speaker: And so these three goblins, have been sent out ah to help him. um And that's basically the plot. ah And you've got the three, you've got these three goblins i and the each of them, like, i I love this. I love the general, the thing is, is that the the general setup and idea of the game

Speaker: even though I don't care for this game at all and how it was done. e Like I can, I can see coming back and, and, and trying this again. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: I love the idea. Did you ever play the lost Vikings? Jess? I was going to say, I think the lost Vikings is an interesting refinement. This blizzard entertainments where you get, again, have three characters, each of whom has its own ability that allows you to work your way through these levels. It's a little bit more platformy yeah than that ah the the lost Vikings is a puzzle platformer.

Speaker: Yeah, that's right. And yeah, I mean, that's the game. we I feel like it sits somewhere between Lemmings and the Lost Vikings. um And I actually assumed in my head, I think I even assumed this back then.

Speaker: assumed that Goblins was directly inspired by Lemmings because Lemmings was such a huge hit and is a puzzle game with a similar vibe of adorable little guys walking across the screen and stuff like that.

Speaker: But I don't think the timetable works. I think this game, i think Lemmings came out in like February of 91. This one may count November of 91. So surely there wouldn't be time to develop this game based on the success of Lemmings, which didn't happen. Yeah, no way. Yeah. they i know there's Seems unlikely. But I think in my head, I'd always just assumed it's like this is Cocktail and then eventually ah Sierra as its U.S. s publisher just trying to cash in on the Lemmings craze.

Speaker: Which don't think is the case at all. in In goblins, you have three little goblins and each, got like, which you control and you shift control between the three.

Speaker: And each has a set of different um abilities. And not even a set. Just pretty much. one It can do one thing. One different ability. There is one that can pick up one item at a time.

Speaker: And use it. One that can cast a spell on something. That will have a random effect. And it's not a random, like a randomized to the player effect. It's just...

Speaker: randomize to the point of that something happens yeah um and then a third is violence it will punch yeah yeah let's get to your list ben tier list of the three goblins uh is it uh punchy joe yeah punchy is it is it wizard names you know yeah punchy joe wizard dan or pick them up and or pick them up i would put i i have my list pretty easy yeah uh number one punchy joe pick him up no punchy joe no punchy joe's is the bottom no yeah because pick him up like that feels like he has like the most advanced power which is like he has the most adventure gamey power which is has the power of thought yeah yeah i mean he does get to use it i mean he does allow you to like

Speaker: use inventory items, which traditionally is like the primary mechanic of a lot of graphic adventure games. So he does have the most like adventure game roots. He would be my number two after punchy.

Speaker: It's, it's the wizard and it's in it's, and it's honestly, it's, it's, you're just age, age discriminating because he's the old man. Well, I mean, also don't know if that's accurate for how Goblin like facial, just because he has a beard. i don't know if we can, a white beard doesn't mean we can assume we know everything about aging in the Goblin community. ah mean But do go on.

Speaker: know well so oh yeah That couldn't be a choice. god Goblins. ah ah Wizards the worst because it's dumb to have a puzzle game where you never know what your guy can or will do. I mean, yes, his is the most obnoxious power by a mile. Because you can't plan like, oh, I see a problem in front of me. i will send him to do it the way you can punchy Joe. Yeah, like with punchy Joe, it's pretty clear. You see something that should be punched and you haven't.

Speaker: And then like later life with pick them up, like you just see shit that you got to pick up. Whereas the wizard, it's just like, yeah and it's also that the wizard can cast spells on items that are kind of background looking items and also obvious interactable items. He can cast spells on both and there's no clarity of hotspots.

Speaker: Yeah, like sometimes you'll just be in a scene that has like standard clouds in the background and they're all the same sprite, like yeah copied several times to create clouds.

Speaker: But if you use Wizard Dan on one of those clouds, occasionally like there's one level where it's like, oh, he can actually interact with the clouds in the background, even though they don't have like a different outline around them to let us know that one's special.

Speaker: Yeah, Wizard Dan's too unpredictable. Like in one level, He's like making something fall off a shelf. And the next one, he's making an apple grow to three times its size.

Speaker: His most consistent power is turning rocks into steps. That's his most consistent power. That's the one that like really kind of like you, you see that one often now in this game.

Speaker: i You're it's essentially, it is kind of similar to to like a machinarium in some ways, um in the sense, like, but it is, as opposed to machinarium and also as opposed to the later Goblins games, ah the the puzzles are stuck to one screen.

Speaker: they're They're all, nothing is like one screen like you you you can go back and forth between different screens everything is you go from screen to screen uh you go like you solve all the puzzles on a screen and then you get like a a little go button like yeah like the the screen chirps at you And you click ah the go button and then you start the next one. And it doesn't even have a save system. It gives you passwords like you're playing an NES game.

Speaker: Yeah, that's great on PC. I really love password systems like this. this Yeah. Yeah, what a lot of great, yeah, for for a system with routable media, I love to jot down passwords. Now, um so this game has something that at least the other two Goblins games that I played don't have, but I would also guess...

Speaker: that four, five, and six don't have either, which is, i would say this is the absolute worst thing in this game. I would, this is what takes it from like a game that I'm just like, yeah you know, this is perfectly fine. It's just not my genre.

Speaker: You know, for an early attempt at this this sort of puzzle game, not too bad. This element of it is what takes it more in like, no. This is the thing that, to me, just kills this game. This is this is the, like, a design choice that is just terrible for the game. It seems completely anathema to the genre. genre like i we which is a health bar.

Speaker: And it's a health bar that doesn't even refresh between scenes. There's not even anything short of entering the password for a screen that you can do to ah refresh your your health.

Speaker: ah It's awful. It punishes experimentation because what it means is if you take wrong steps, if you do things incorrectly, your goblins will occasionally take a little hit to their health.

Speaker: And it's a collective health also. It's a collective health for all three. But it creates a system where you become a little afraid to experiment like, because if you start losing health, eventually you could injure run almost, yeah unless you happen to just become flawless moving forward, you can get really stuck with that, which is a strange mechanic for this genre that's typically built around experimentation it it it's also that the the the puzzles in this game are like often very strange and esoteric and operate on their own internal logic like the better ones operate on their own internal logic and so like there there's a there's a puzzle like at at a point uh i think midway through the game

Speaker: Where I think it's like ah there are ah like two, I think it's like dangling vines or maybe it's like two dangling like spider webs or something. I forget exactly.

Speaker: And all things being equal, there's no difference between them other than their location. One of them, if you tug on it, you get hurt.

Speaker: The other one is the one that you're supposed to tug on. There is no way for you to learn which is the one that you're not supposed to without doing that. Yeah, because at many of these levels...

Speaker: it's oftentimes the case that your objective isn't completely clear. Like there's no way just look it and say, it's like, I need to get through that spider web, whereas this one isn't part of what I need to do. The game requires some degree of just messing around to figure out what it needs you to do.

Speaker: But in some cases, you'll just be randomly punished for it. Yeah, it is um like, it is a design choice that just totally fucks up the game. Like, yes just completely. It is... Unforced error. Yeah, I mean, it is It, again, just is looming over entire game. And um I would love to know...

Speaker: I mean, is this just a typical again, somebody paid 49 bucks for this and they need to get their money's worth. So we'll just make it, know, add this random element of difficulty or at the time where they not confident enough in this genre, simply being a mental game without there being some sort of stakes involved. I'm not sure.

Speaker: You know, think there's part of it which is just like, well, it's this, you know, because it's kind of an adventure game. It's a point and click game.

Speaker: But it's not, you know, like it is, it's it's these it's more kind of puzzle forward. It's not very plotty. Yeah, has the fact that has levels alone suggests it's not really a traditional adventure game.

Speaker: The plot, such as it is, is either told to you via like gibberish language ah or um like just kind of what you see around, and then like you get little like still frame plot interstitials between levels, where it's just like, okay, now the goblins are going to do this.

Speaker: Now they're going to do this. Anyway, the Um, like the, the game, like in order for this game to work, it needs for you to experiment.

Speaker: And yeah, so they probably thought, well, games like this have death states and it's not just like their American publisher. and I think cocktail vision was also part, like was owned by Sierra at this point.

Speaker: yeah I think by 92 they were. um But it's like, well, you know, like all the American adventure games, like the Sierra adventure games had death in them. Infocom games had death in them.

Speaker: I'm not familiar. Like, I'm not familiar with those earlier cocktail vision games. I would assume that they have death in them. Erotic death. Yeah, erotic. A small death, if you will.

Speaker: Expeciation. Yes. Tons of erotic asphyxiations and auto erotic ones. Yeah. um Every, every variation of it And then, um but then also like, I'm just naming off American ones. I'm sure like just not being that familiar with, like there's that, that French mystery game that we discussed. I believe that has a bunch of deaths in it.

Speaker: Like, I think they, I don't think they would have thought that not having death was an option. Maybe not. Yeah, just it's such a such a cornerstone of the genre at that point in its history, with the exception of LucasArts, who is doing their whole thing.

Speaker: And like, because the thing is, is that this game is hard enough that no one's going to say if you're immortal in it, like that you're being cheated out of difficulty, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's just hard enough to put up with.

Speaker: Like that, that's the difficulty. Like it is, it's, it's hard enough. And then adding the deaths, which discourages you. And, you know, someone might say, well, you just put the password back in and then you restart the level. It's just not a pleasant experience as a player.

Speaker: Yeah. It's just, yeah. For quality of life, it's unnecessary and just creates an aggravation rather than like fulfilling that sense of danger or risk or stakes or whatever they were going for with it.

Speaker: I don't mean think it managed to do those. It just occasionally like, Oh, that's frustrating. which at the time I think we were a little bit more willing to tolerate in 1991. Sometimes games just did frustrating things to us. and It's like, yeah, that's video games.

Speaker: But looking at today through 2026 eyes, it's just like, how could you have made this choice? Surely you must've known better. I think, I think what the game really has for it, and maybe maybe ah this isn't ah your type, but I really love this.

Speaker: What this game really has going for it is its art style. It has the like very expressive cartoon characters that all have like distinct personalities, including like NPCs.

Speaker: across across the game every like each level has like it it feels like you're you're walking in kind of like these like a ah strange one panel cartoon which is something that has in common with the like machinarium and the games that that developer has made like it has a very very distinct look which they've maintained to the games that they've been doing today like, you know, whether or not it's your, like, if if it's art to your liking, it is extremely distinctive and has a very strong personality.

Speaker: Right. I mean, it is definitely consistent with this aesthetic. Like the artist that worked on this, you know, clearly imagined this world and everything you see in it feels like it's a part of this little cartoony, almost storybook looking world. I mean, in that sense, I think it's very successful in establishing a visual style and then carrying it out throughout I will say personally, i don't love the visual style as part of, I don't even know if I can, I thought a lot about this and I don't know if it's, I mean, it's just a matter of personal taste.

Speaker: It turned me off when I saw it in 91, like just the look of was like, eh, I don't like this. And it still kind of does to me today. It's like, I can appreciate what it's going for.

Speaker: But i don't love it. Part of it is it it has a problem we occasionally talk about on the podcast. I think it's a little bit... even though wasn't developed for the Amiga. um it has a ah limited, it does have a ah limited color palette. A little lot of brown, lot of browns and stuff like that. That gives is what I always associate with like a game that had Amiga in mind, which is probably a mischaracterization. I mean, I'm i'm pretty sure that the first one came out for the Amiga. Yeah, it probably did. Yeah. So that, that gets me a little bit. And then I think, you know, i' was going to be frank, Ben.

Speaker: i don't love games with tiny little guys in them. Do you not like lemmings? No, I don't like tiny little guys. don't like lemmings.

Speaker: and Let me say. lemming me say. Lemming me say. As a child, there was a Saturday morning cartoon.

Speaker: and During the 1980s called the littles. Are you familiar with the littles? No. Okay, they are horrific elven type creatures that like live in your cupboards.

Speaker: And i'm looking as a child, I used to have nightmares about the littles. And are you seeing them now? Yeah, yeah i'm I'm looking up the littles right now.

Speaker: Yeah, i mean, the littles are nightmare fuel. Would you agree? so little these These guys are disturbing. Yeah, like, I'm i'm daring to, they're French. hey Hey, Ben, guess what country that this originated from? Ah, the French.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's a French cartoon as well that aired here in the United States. And it freaked me out so badly as a kid. i think that a little part me just has never liked little guys since then. And goblins is a bunch of little guys. But they in in goblins, they're like, so in the littles, they're like, they're little elves, like elves, but they're meant to be like, look like.

Speaker: you know, i they, they, they're, they're kind of ragamuffin. Yeah. yeah You know, the, the goblins are little freaks, which is what I love about them. Like they're, they're odd little guys. Yeah. and And when I say little freaks, I think this being a cocktail game, we know that probably they're also little freaks. Oh yeah.

Speaker: These guys get down and dirty. You can tell. oh for sure. For sure. Yeah. Bobo. Absolutely. um but uh and so sierra bought cocktail vision in 94 really that late looking at wikipedia and several goblins wait hold on in 92 it was acquired by sierra online the deal was finalized in late october of 93 and

Speaker: That's the French court system for you. And, but according to Wikipedia, it says 94 to, its I got to call my Wikipedia guy. yes Grayson, Grayson, could you please Siri text Grayson, Grayson fixed goblin date of acquisition, please.

Speaker: But yeah, I mean, I, I, I enjoy, I, I think because it's like, it's very inventive and that's something like, and that's why that,

Speaker: the the the the choice, um like that that HP choice is is such a bummer because i love exploring these, like this this strange world and like...

Speaker: I think it's hyper detailed in some really interesting ways. Yeah. I think that the, uh, I, I love playing around in, in little worlds like this and exploring and experimenting.

Speaker: And, and I love, and I think also part of the joy of a game like this is to see violence done to these characters. True. because When, when,

Speaker: Like, you know, it's a lot of fun in goblins to do the wrong thing and then to see one of the goblins have the shit kicked out of them. Yeah, absolutely. Because they have really funny animations when they get hurt.

Speaker: Yes. And there are lots of great bespoke animations throughout this game. Again, it is lovingly crafted. There's no question about I mean, this is a game that, you know, it...

Speaker: the The artist, Pierre Quixote, I believe is probably going to be the pronunciation of that. Really distinctive style that carries over to Woodruff and the Schnibble.

Speaker: um The creator, Muriel Tramas, British designer who worked on some of those earlier ah erotic games like Geisha and Fascination. And eventually would go on to do Urban Runner for Cocktail, which I think was one of their...

Speaker: Last game. think they're the last Sierra. Yeah. um I mean, yeah. When are we going to do Emmanuel? When are we going to do Emmanuel? erotic graphical adventure game.

Speaker: That has digitized graphics, right? It's like a sexy, sexy JPEG game. Yeah, it's a sexy JPEG. um But, i i yeah, I mean...

Speaker: You know, and then I think the one of the other kind of ah annoying. So I played this all the way to the conclusion. I used to walk through, but I played it all the way to the end.

Speaker: ah tapped out. Listeners, I'm sorry. i played this all the way to the end. there There were a couple of things, even with a walkthrough that that weren't to my taste. One was that it's also very fiddly.

Speaker: It's very fiddly. like yeah, you're a step or two away from where you need to be to activate the thing you want to activate. The like, And this is this is perfectly fine for a game made in you know in the early 90s for DOS.

Speaker: The pathfinding that the goblins have isn't great. like Sometimes the pathfinding they have might be able to get them up a set of stairs, then up a ladder, then to the other side of a ledge.

Speaker: And then sometimes you have to kind of babysit them through close clicks. Absolutely. um like so so sometimes the pathfinding is a little wonky but honestly you know it is it's it's a game from you know the the early 90s for DOS like I think that's fine pathfinding you know it still can still be challenging for some games um but it's also very finicky in terms of Like there are puzzles where pick them up has to put something down.

Speaker: um and like the, uh, putting something down zone is very finicky is very, becoming mean the diamond into the wizard's hand in that early level. Um, proved a little bit frustrating for me.

Speaker: Like, yeah, like there's, there's kind of, there's, there's a level, i think a little later on where you have to get, uh, you have to have a dragon roast, a dis, like a, a foot that you picked up.

Speaker: Like, uh, and you have to place it on a rock and for this dragon to fire a fireball at. And it took me a bunch of tries to get the foot in the correct area, which would trigger the dragon. And also you have to walk away because if you stand there for too long, the dragon is going to fire its fireball and then like you on fire.

Speaker: Yeah. AOE damage. Yeah. Classic problem. Yeah, no, it's a classic fireball. um Yeah, pick him up seems to be the one that has the most fiddliness with this. Like, I mean, I had one, I can't remember what the level was, but I dropped an item near a different hotspot inadvertently. And that proof, like to either get him to pick back up the item without triggering the other hotspot or to get another goblin to come over and try to do what they need to do.

Speaker: It was just like, if I had few steps over to the side when I clicked drop, it would have been fine, but it is a little fiddly. I'd be curious. I mean, you've played the later games. Do they smooth out some of this interface once they... there are There are interface improvements in the later games. I haven't played i haven't played two or three in a little while, but...

Speaker: What I will say ah about two, which I opened up and played for a little bit like today, just to be like, huh, I wonder. um they're They are still kind of fiddly. I mean, it's also that in two, they cut it down to you have two goblins yeah instead of three, which is which makes it better. If I remember correctly...

Speaker: i there are more puzzles in two which involve like firing off both goblins doing something at the same time. That's good. Yeah. causeed And you can't do that in this game. yeah Absolutely.

Speaker: You know, i think if I could make two changes to this game, the first would be get rid of the health bar. Obviously huge mistake. Another bit of the interface that felt very clunky to me throughout was the fact that all three goblins essentially have the same use or do icon. Yes. Like all of them share, I guess, a closed fist, right? That's a closed fist is both how you get pick them up to use his items.

Speaker: It's how you get wizard Dan to cast one of his spells. And it's how you get punchy Joe to, to wail on something. Yeah. And sometimes because the characters,

Speaker: look enough alike it's easy to lose track of who you've equipped at which one you switched over to at any given point it would have been so easy just like if you had like some fingers with a lightning bolt coming out of them for the wizard or kept the fist for the punchy guy and yeah I don't know maybe an open hand for pick them up ah could have gone a long way I think toward just making this a little bit smoother experience in terms of uh just making each character not just distinct in their abilities and visually, but also within the interface of the game itself.

Speaker: So this is one thing. So here's a recollection of playing goblins when I was a little kid was I remember playing it with my older brother and he was like, I wasn't figuring any of it out, but he was like kind of soldiering through it and kind of solving it I remember when,

Speaker: the joy of so do you you you played the level where like it there's like a head like a purple head that's the screen and on one side of the screen there's like like on the bottom right of the screen, there's some kind of monster that's guarding something you need. yeah And then up at the top, there's like a ah coffin that has a monster come out.

Speaker: yeah like ah Yeah, like a mummy type thing. Yeah. Yeah. And like, as you kind of play and experiment, you're like, okay, i have to get the monster over... to I have to get the mummy to the monster to to have them scared away.

Speaker: But the problem is, is that I've got three goblins that I got to get out of that way. Yeah. And I remember like watching my brother as he like kind of eliminated, like worked through each. It's like, okay, what if I tried this? Nope, that doesn't work.

Speaker: What if I tried that? Nope, that doesn't like and a lot of restarts and something. But the joy When he finally like kind of figured out, it's like, okay, so, all right. So this guy climbs up here and then this guy, like then these two guys stand here and then this happens here. And then like, we do this, like figuring out and like the, the chain of events that yes got you from one place to the next was extremely satisfying.

Speaker: And I think that is one of the best levels in the game. I think it's like visually it's it's a gorgeous one. and i think yeah to me it's like kind of the iconic one, like the iconic shot. When I think of goblins, I think of that.

Speaker: It really reminded me to when the mummy would go along the little path there of ah of Stairquest and the Yeti level. So I really excited by that. It it felt very Yeti. I don't think that was our inspiration for doing that, but i couldn't help but think he really moved around that twisty pathway a lot like the Yeti in Stairquest.

Speaker: which Could you look up on Wikipedia which came out first, Stairquest or Goblins? Oh, it's Down.

Speaker: was that down wikipedia is down yeah did you not did you not donate i was gonna get to it it's gonna get to it you not donate was gonna get to it did you not donate gonna get you couldn't take in a little bit of your clod subscription money and just kicked it over to the latest model is is is the most incredible new model yeah you've been using it for all your coding i've noticed oh yeah for all my coding yeah yeah yeah I'm letting it handle all my medical decisions.

Speaker: ah And I've never felt better. Yeah. yeah You know, that, that nosebleed that you have right now, Jess, it looks good. It's like a racing stripe for your face.

Speaker: Well, you know, asked Claude and it said that is relieving pressure on my brain. You have had a lot of brain pressure. That's right. now i have ah i have brain fog, ah you know, which, you know, and I also have whatever Tom Hanks had the game of Joe versus the volcano, ah whatever sort of brain. I had that too, you know. ah But you haven't seen Joe versus the volcano? No.

Speaker: It's great. and It's widely held as maybe Tom Hanks' best work. Oh, yeah? That's the After Dragnet. After Dragnet. After Dragnet. After Dragnet. Yeah. Well, I haven't seen that.

Speaker: I haven't seen Dragnet either. Yeah, it's really good. there's ah There's an evil cult in L.A. called Pagan, and that's an acronym for People Against like Goodness and Normalcy or something.

Speaker: Sounds like Police Quest 3. Now... It's even darker than Police Quest 3, if you can imagine. But, yeah, I mean... you know, one of the other things that's a little annoying about the game is that... And again, this would...

Speaker: be acceptable if the game, you know, didn't punish you is that there's also red herrings. Like there will be some levels where there's like inventory items that serve no purpose or things on the, the wall, like, you know, things, that interactables that you don't need to interact with.

Speaker: And that might be fun. if if you were not punished, right. for for doing something that harms, because it's not like, it's also that the the game, like sometimes there will be something and it's like, well, clearly like that's a monster of some kind. That's a guard dog in front of the wizard's house.

Speaker: He's going to fuck up one of one of the goblins. He can't wait. He can't wait. So that, okay, fine. That's a problem.

Speaker: But, Like some of the other stuff, like, it's just like, all right, well, you know, like there, there's no way to know. Ben, have we ever talked about how we feel about red herrings and adventure games?

Speaker: don't know if we have, how do we feel about, i mean, not just like red herring and items. Yeah. Like an item that you pick up that you want, like say like films for a stage lighting, uh, that you just keep picking up, uh, everywhere, uh, in, uh, in a game, but you never, no matter whether you're in the past or the present really get much use out of How do, how do we feel about a item that you pick up that goes in your inventory that you never use? Yeah.

Speaker: Like other than the hilarious hubcap in ah Day of the Tynacle. Or, you know, the the literal red herring in Secret of Monkey Island. You know, so here's the thing.

Speaker: Is that I don't think there's... ah I don't think there's anything that... you you shouldn't have an adventure game.

Speaker: There's obviously, like, the the general school of thought that produces a good adventure game, and it doesn't have red herrings, and it doesn't have, like, a lot of, like, irritating stuff in it.

Speaker: i There is probably a good way to have red herrings in a game. I don't want to say don't have, like, useless objects, but Because, like, of course, that would cut out one of the greatest games of all time.

Speaker: Tyrandia 3, Malcolm's Revenge, which has all sorts of pointless shit that just fills your inventory, which is a limited size inventory. Never a bad idea. I mean, I think we can both agree that limiting your inventory size, encumbrance in adventure games is such a fun mechanic.

Speaker: Especially when you have a lot of bullshit, red herring, pointless items. Yes. I can't wait to talk about Kyrandia 3. I've never played it. One of the, they I put it up there next to Norco. Which would you say has the better um laugh track? That or Torrin's Passage?

Speaker: Oh, easily. Malcolm's Revenge. but i mean torrent's passage just has it for that just for one or not yeah for the bitter nuts is that right nuts yeah the bitter nuts i've never played torrent's passage either honestly like i mean what we'll we'll hit it for the podcast but spoilers incredibly mid um for al low yeah i don't know what to tell you creator of alpha bop what's alpha bop not much what's alpha bop with you

Speaker: Isn't that like his early edutainment game? Did just make that up? Oh, no. I mean, maybe. I don't know. Alpha Bop. Alpha Bop?

Speaker: I think it's Alpha Bop, but then I'm like, that is not pulling up stuff. Alpha Bop.

Speaker: ah Bop-a-bat. Bop-a-bat. That's the one. Well, I don't know that either. Yes. i mean, it's still the same concept. I think you're bopping the alphabet. oh it's like Bop-A-Bet.

Speaker: I see. Yeah, like Bop-A-Bet. like that Like that bounty hunter from Star Wars, Bop-A-Bet. um Anyway, i'm not I'm not familiar with Bop-A-Bet.

Speaker: Wow, that's weird. The

Speaker: game. How about Winnie the Pooh in the Hundred Acre Woods? That's another good Al Lowe game.

Speaker: any Anyway, i think there's probably a way to do red herrings in in an adventure game that is like kind of fun or at least not like it doesn't feel like bullshitty.

Speaker: um Like i you know, i think that the generally agreed upon kind of airtight design ah ah philosophy ah that you'd find in an adventure game now is great and mostly makes good to great games.

Speaker: It's just at the same time, don't want prescribe and say like, oh, well, an adventure game shouldn't have that because I bet there's way it. Yeah, don't like sand down all the rough edges off the adventure genre.

Speaker: I'm trying to think like my idea of what a good red herring adventure game puzzle is. is giving the player an incredibly useful item that they never actually have an opportunity to use, which makes me think that's such an obvious idea. It's bound to have been done. Like it sounds like something Infocom probably did before I played my first adventure game, right? Like giving you something super useful. Like, as we all know, the most useful inventory item any adventure game character can have is a gun.

Speaker: There's no problem. You can't solve with a gun. Give King Graham a gun and he has marches through that game and he's got the three treasures back to the castle in like half an hour.

Speaker: Nobody could stand up to him. What's the leprechaun king going to do? could shoot the dragon. You could shoot the giant. You could shoot dragon. You could shoot the witch. Shoot the gnome. Yeah, shoot.

Speaker: ah You could shoot the troll at the bridge. The giant. Yeah, that's, yeah. that That dwarf that tries to rob you on the stairs. Like glass of the wolf that comes at you. The eagle.

Speaker: I mean, you don't have to shoot the eagle, but you could. After it dropped you off, you could shoot the goat, I guess. Like, I yeah i mean, you can stab that goat with the dagger. yeah You could shoot the the the moat monster.

Speaker: hey hey Ben, you could shoot King Edward and just move his body and sit down the throne. Now you're king. Yeah. Game game complete. um that but I mean, yeah, put that in somebody's inventory, but then give them no good gun situations.

Speaker: wait and so So, yeah, how do you feel about ah red herring? I like it in principle. See, that's how I feel. If it's done for comedic effect. Now, from what I understand, just what a little bit I know about Malcolm's Revenge, that sounds like an obnoxious way to do it. No. Nothing about Malcolm's Revenge is obnoxious. It's certainly not intentionally obnoxious, right? There's nothing about that game that is actively trolling its player.

Speaker: I mean, at the same time, it also feels like, God, half of the crap in Kyrandia 1 might as well be red herrings because it's all so forgettable and more. It's like, oh, wow, another gem, huh?

Speaker: Great. I'll just stick this gem somewhere. Ugh, Kyrandia 1. But yeah, I mean, the and Like there's also a screen which has a red button that you don't even have to use at any point. Like that's cruel.

Speaker: i love it, but that's cruel. But yeah. And also the objective, like there are some, there are some screens where it's like you solve where you're like, okay, well i I probably have to get off this screen in some way. And there's, there's a block.

Speaker: that screen like to the window and and you know okay there's like a there's something trapped in a cage so I probably have to get that open um but like and so you do all of that and then it's just like and then you also have to just pick up there's an elixir on the table that has like the only reason you need the elixir is because you need it later yeah you need it on a different screen and it will be useful then You have no use for it in the screen that you're currently in. It's just that you have to be holding it.

Speaker: Right. And it it it never lets you advance without an item, though, right? The go doesn't pop up until you have everything you need from that level, correct? No, especially, like, you can't have a dead-end...

Speaker: stick like i mean the worst you could do is dead end on a screen that you have a password to that resets the screen and i don't know if you can dead end on one of the screens i think everything i don't think anything is finite i could be wrong um but like the um Because I remember I did one. There was one screen that I did where one of the goblins was just straight up killed. And um so it gave me the option to just restart the screen.

Speaker: And even then, it didn't reset my health. Like, it I got a health penalty, and then it reset the screen. i did it. I'm pissed. did it give you the option just to continue playing to see how the other two goblins dealt with grief and loss?

Speaker: No, you don't get that until goblins five. That's when they really get introspective. That's when, that's ah that's the dark goblins. That's the dark goblins game. It's like, like ah you know how, ah like in in the mid-aughts, you know, like Walking Dead, but also like Battlestar Galactica and all this, like, you know, the Nolan Batmans, like, you know, they did the the dark versions of of stuff, like Metroid Prime 2, like,

Speaker: uh like yeah it's it's goblins five that uh you know it's like you know we took the concept of the goblins and then we're like but what if like it really happened like that'd be pretty fucked up imagine what yeah that's right like like imagine if this was really happening now like and then goblin six of course one of them has a kid and we get to explore like the theme of fatherhood yeah through their adventure together which that's pretty powerful too it's yeah yeah the latter day goblins games can really like they they they go into some interesting uh they're also very much of the moment yeah i mean yeah then there's like the dual stick shooter one yeah that one's but also it's seven it's goblin six the most recent one that you know they they call back to ah cocktail visions uh like origins you know and some of us like true goblin heads we call that one goblin sex because it's like

Speaker: it's it's It's all erotic ah goblins puzzles. Yeah. Like at every puzzle is is is is, you know, like, oh, I twisted a nipple and then this happened.

Speaker: yeah Bop it. Twist it And then I bopped a bat.

Speaker: No. Yeah. And i didn't see the cameo from Emmanuel coming. But boy, was I glad when it did. Oh, yeah. um but ah But yeah, I mean, yeah you know, like, listen, didn't come here to bury goblins because i'm i'm ah because i do I do have very fond memories of those other goblins.

Speaker: games And this is what I'll say to you, Jess, about Goblins 2. here Here are two massive improvements. Okay. One fewer goblin. All right. So three massive improvements. Because if i don't like little men, two sounds better than three. And also they're distinct. The two goblins in Goblins 2 are like one of them has like a blue head.

Speaker: So they look like noticeably quite different. um So... no health bar in god like No health bar in Goblin. Right away, improvement.

Speaker: Here's another thing that Goblins 2 has. ah Hot spots. You mouse over and it says like what the what your mouse is over.

Speaker: That's an improvement. Absolutely. because it It's hard to explain. When we say that This art style is very distinct. It absolutely is. But also there is not much effort to distinguish hotspots from the rest of the scene in the way that we expect from adventure games, you know, like a slightly thicker outline around an item or,

Speaker: it's colored a little bit differently or it just pops from the background for some reason. Just being able to mouse over things and tell what's interactive and what isn't and not be worried that if I guess incorrectly, I may lose health is right away a massive set of improvements. so So those are, and then, you know, what like Goblins 2 also, it it gets rid of the one screen thing. So you'll have like little puzzle strings that take place on a collection of screens, like on a couple screens, which is nice.

Speaker: It also has like... dialogue the there there is like written dialogue like they it it gets rid of they do speak in like little funny noises they do speak in goblin simlish which i low-key hated um but i i don't i i don't mind it i think in in in two those little sound effects are better i think they're they're kind of funny

Speaker: bra come bra bra bra i don't know anyway um but it has like text as captions good um i don't ever become more narratively rich like any like or is that just a woodruff and the schnibble thing when they actually decide like it's more story driven correct i did not play woodruff so i cannot tell you what i can say is that Two has more of a narrative. Like, obviously, these, like, both of those games, or, like, all three of these games are, um you know, they are about, like, the little goofy puzzle things. Yeah. Like, that' that's what the game is.

Speaker: But... two and three have like characters and chat. And I, if, if I remember right, not having played three in a long time, three has an even more involved story.

Speaker: Gotcha. Three is the one they slap quest onto the title. At least here in the U S right. like Yeah. Um, odd choice. Well, yeah, they're just like the goblins bequest.

Speaker: Yeah. Fuck it. We're putting quest on there. I'll sell that will sell a couple more. um but, uh, but yeah, so it's like, I would say, Jess, I'm never going to make you a goblins fan.

Speaker: No, you we're never going to like these game I'm not built for this. No, but I think there's a possibility. I think you would more have a greater tolerance of it's like, because this first goblins game, I'm going to say this is for,

Speaker: I wouldn't recommend this as like the first goblins game you play. I would say you come back and play this. If, if, you know, if it seems interesting.

Speaker: Yeah. And again, your mileage may vary. Like I can say, and Ben knew this, like this, you know, just to beat behind the curtain. Yeah. This is a Ben suggestion and he knew I'd hate it. And he was right. Like literally before the,

Speaker: intro was finished before the opening cinematic ended, I was like, I hate this game so much. And I hadn't even gotten a chance to click on anything yet. um And I came around a little bit on it. Like, honestly, I hated it more five minutes in than I did 45 minutes in.

Speaker: it was I was warming to it a little bit once I figured out its sort of unique style of how it expected me to play it and began to appreciate little bit of its humor and things like that little bit more so i did begin just like don't think i can do this there's not gonna be a i mean i thought we might just have to skip straight to next week's episode which we were i mean were planning on talking about space quest i haven't played space quest 4 yet so yeah so we have to give ben time to play space quest 4 so yeah so it's goblins and know what

Speaker: By the end of it, I liked it more than I started. So for a game that's very much about my, not my genre, not my style. And it's not very good. It's not great. It's not great example of a genre. spell It's the first one and it introduces all sorts of really great ideas.

Speaker: Right. um And I can see how you would see but like, this is worth another pass. a lot of potential here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He fit a lot of goblins inside this thing. Yeah, I can put like a million goblins in this fight. But yet they choose to put fewer goblins each time.

Speaker: um Do you think that they were just right now goblins? Oh, that's why it was down to ah to one for goblins. Yeah. Three.

Speaker: Let's see. How many goblins are there in Goblin's Four?

Speaker: It resets. It goes back to 99. Let's see here. ah Goblins 4. oh it's the the original 3. Oh, man. Pick'em Up's back?

Speaker: Pick'em Up comes back. and then i and then so does Goblins 5.

Speaker: And then Goblins 6 is a sequel to Goblins 2.

Speaker: Oh, so it's like series within series. It's like a, it's like fucking, it's like disc world. I was going to say it's like disc world. It's like disc world, like disc world.

Speaker: It's like disc world. Kind of like disc world. I'd say you want, it reminds me me of more than anything else though. What disc world. Oh yeah. Well, anyway, this has been quest quest, the adventure game podcast. Thank you so much.

Speaker: for joining us this week. Please, you know, especially if you have any any adventure games that you think would be enjoyable to play with a kid, like, especially one that involves typing, perhaps, do let us know. Send us an email questquestpodcast gmail.com.

Speaker: dot to ah You can ah please rate and review. It helps ah people find us.

Speaker: it helps me find us too. Because like when I search for Quest Quest, like it brings up stuff about like VR rigs and it brings up like medical diagnostic companies and things like that.

Speaker: But you can put us on top. you know It's possible we could be more popular than a Quest VR rig if you'll just rate and review us. we can We can beat we can be meta in ah SEO.

Speaker: But thank you so much. And we'll see you in one week when we discuss Space Quest.

Speaker: right, so Jess, if Sludge Vahal were to defeat Roger Wilco while in his son's body, wouldn't he disappear via the forces of a paradox?

Speaker: Oh, Ben, you haven't read my fan fiction where I make it very clear that if Roger Wilco Jr. is anyone's son, it's certainly not Roger Wilco's.