Transcript
Speaker: It's Quest Quest. Benjamin, it's me, Jareth. I've returned for the second episode in a row. Well, just straight from my labyrinth.
Speaker: We're recording. This is coming I'm the Goblin King. This is coming out, not sequential. Labyrinths are year round. We recorded the Jake episode last week, recording this episode this week, but it's coming out weeks later.
Speaker: I'm back for a second episode after a brief hiatus. You have to, all right, Jess, people were giving me shit for for for not yes-handing your Jareth.
Speaker: Jareth. Chiefly you, but but some others. You're not going to give me, like, even a smidge of a David Bowie impression? Not even, like, a whiff? I've kidnapped a baby, and I'm married to Eman, the model.
Speaker: um um um i I'm digging deep into it. The Undiscovered Country. Have you seen it, Benjamin? course I've seen Star Trek. What's your favorite scene?
Speaker: ah It's a when um he talks about ah Shakespeare in the original Klingon. Ah, Gorkon.
Speaker: Gorkon. Hey, how's it going, Ben? It's me, Jess. Actually, it's me, Jess. It's been me, Jess, all along. Welcome to Quest Quest, the a adventure game podcast. Before we introduce our guest, I do have to ask, have you finished watching Labyrinth yet?
Speaker: No, really, I didn't care for it. I don't think I'm going to finish it.
Speaker: but It's not for me. ah It's not for me. What's that? When did you stop? How far where? They just made a right turn.
Speaker: For fuck's sake, Jess.
Speaker: I don't know. Like stopped, like there was a scene where they got to a bridge and like a little freak. Cause that whole movie is just little. friday They came to a thing and there was a little freak. yeah There's a little freak at a bridge. This little freak looked like uncle traveling Matt from Fraggles. He like had the uncle traveling Matt, like bushy eyebrows and. yeah he had real fraggle energy um so they got to this bridge and as i recall like the puzzle was she just kind of simply had like ask him to politely step aside and he did and i was like yeah this is horseshit there were no stakes in that part of it just stormed out it made me pretty mad pretty you just watching labyrinth alone
Speaker: yes in my anger bubble i go there sometimes to retreat to watch movies i don't want to see um no i uh it was a neighbor's uh birthday party and you walked out of your neighbor's birth well first off why was your neighbor watching and it i mean i'm sorry francisco this is really important why were i'm sorry special don't spoil the secret our special guest could be anyone. could be Roberta Williams. It could be Ken Williams. It'd be Chris Williams. It could be Roberta.
Speaker: wait Roberta. out about. Okay. Were they? Bye. Bye Roberta. Were they? roberta please yeah have to find out about so i Okay. were they why by vera were they okay So it was your neighbor's birthday party. What age?
Speaker: ah I'm going to say like 41-ish, 42-ish. 41-ish. 42-ish. Okay. I didn't ask because I'm polite. It's a age older than Yeah. And...
Speaker: It was like ah we're watching a movie birthday party. Yeah, it was a class. I mean it was your classic birthday party where they had various flavored kettle corns and bundt cakes, individual bundt cakes for each person. And we watched Labyrinth. What is strange about that?
Speaker: It's a birthday party. multiple like multiple kettle corns like kettle corn is a genre well i mean it was all kinds of special corns uh there was like a kettle corn there was a kettle corn and cheddar mix there was salt and vinegar popcorn they had some butter popcorn they had some buffalo uh popcorn uh the salt and vinegar was delightful it's great with a white chocolate bunk cake Your own miniature individual bunks. so you got these ah bespoke snacks. And then you you hung out for about, let's say, 45 minutes of Labyrinth. Yes. and then And then you were like, I'm going to walk back to my home.
Speaker: which Yes, that's exactly why I So this is not very difficult. Yeah, i walked like the quarter mile back to my house in the middle it. I was like, I'm out of here. You know why I left? Why did you leave?
Speaker: I had to record a podcast. And that matters more to me than my friends. What a twist. put it all on the line here. Like they were just like, Jess, can you stay a little longer? We're really trying to celebrate Amanda's big day.
Speaker: and And I said, fuck you. I got to go talk to Jake Rodkin. And today we are joined by Francisco Gonzalez. Francis, do you have a Wikipedia Not anymore. footballer born in 2001 has one. i I used to have one but Wikipedia deleted it because I wasn't notable enough, apparently.
Speaker: It's better to have love and loss than to have never been on Wikipedia. Weirdly though, weirdly though, you know how like sometimes when there's multiple people with the same name, they clarify it with like their actor profession or whatever in parentheses. Mine was a voice actor, which is weird because I'm not.
Speaker: I've done voice acting, but I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, a professional voice actor. So that's probably why they got rid of it, because they were like, ah, fuck that guy, he's not really.
Speaker: um My games have Wikipedia pages, and like i i'm yeah you know i'm I'm there, but but my... So if anyone listening wants to go and make me a Wikipedia page, I know that friend of the pod, Grayson,
Speaker: is is fond of making Wikipedia pages. In fact, I think he was the one who started the Rosewater Wikipedia page. ah um if If anyone out there wants to make one for me, I wouldn't be opposed to it. But, you know, no a conflict of interest, I can't.
Speaker: ah Just to close the loop on this request, could you give us a fake bit of information about yourself that can be inserted into this new Wikipedia entry citing this episode as the origin for it so we know that if that entry does appear that it's a product of this very discussion?
Speaker: Oh, a fake fact about myself. Does that have to be a lie then? I mean, yeah, that's I mean, sure. I love pickles. Oh, there you have it. Noted pickle lover and adventure game designer. Or would you like adventure game designer to come first? I feel like ah feel like pickle lover is probably more important.
Speaker: What if your entry referred to you as Francisco Pickles Gonzalez? I would die. This is all right. So, uh, Francisco, I am looking now at, uh, your Wikipedia page and this is, uh, what it says.
Speaker: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Francisco Gonzalez game designer and Wikipedia to check for alternative, uh, titles or spellings.
Speaker: Would do you say that's accurate?
Speaker: Sure. Although, now that I click on this, I see that there's... Oh, wait, it's... ah Yeah. So, if you go to the um the disambiguation page, you'll notice that every single one of them has a link except for mine. Mine is the only one that's red, which says, American game designer, developer of Ben Jordan Paranormal Investigator, and a golden wake.
Speaker: So... Anything else? No, apparently not. ah My career started ah ended as soon as it started, apparently, according to Wikipedia, but whatever. This is actually a really interesting entry. I'm curious ah what we think about this one, because there is oh fras Francisco here. Yeah, that is identified...
Speaker: correspondent and correspondence misspelled oddly uh that's something i didn't uh didn't expect there but yeah there is a wikipedia entry for francisco gonzalez uh quest quest sandwich i didn't realize wikipedia worked like this this is not my favorite thing i've ever seen yeah um but anyway all right here i'll i'll quickly ah francisco uh gonzalez uh game uh designer Yes. yeah Sure. Of Golden Wake, Shardlight, Lamplight City, and most recently Rosewater.
Speaker: That's right. ah An announced game, ah not of this the time of this record, but at the time of this release. Well, as of the time of this release, it will have been announced two days ago. Wow. but this is People don't realize we're breaking this news. Yeah, we're, I mean we know about this you know what so much earlier than everyone It's caught the presses, just like a good Cuban sandwich.
Speaker: Whoa! Oh, man, there you have it. There you have it. um I would like to i would like to um hijack your podcast.
Speaker: ah great you've You've been very kind to have me a second time as your guest. And as your second time guest, I want to start the podcast by saying two things, two very important things that I want to commit to air.
Speaker: h Number one is, i was your sandwich correspondent. i i I self-imposed my retirement because I felt like my um getting Dominic Armato to be a special guest on my correspondence was the peak of my abilities and could not be topped. And therefore, i went out on top.
Speaker: But since then, I have acquired a book, which I found in a free library on the street, called The Encyclopedia of Sandwiches. and And it's this was destiny.
Speaker: It was destiny. And I've been looking through it. And there are so many sandwiches that I want to talk about. ah But i just I can't because it's just it's too much.
Speaker: That being said, though, Monte Cristo
Speaker: Monte Cristo. Oh my goodness. In a long time. It has been. I haven't been to Bennigan's in a very long want me tell you the last time I had one? I can tell you the exact last time I had one at Bennigan's. Yeah, there you go. um The only place to get them.
Speaker: September 11th, 2001. No way. It was a really sad day and I thought to myself, what would cheer me up more than going to Bennigan's?
Speaker: and Let me tell you, i was like, I need a calorie bomb, a dense calorie bomb, you know, and in the midst of this national tragedy. Wow. And watching like George Bush address the nation on the televisions at the bar in Bennigan's while I ate a Monte Cristo. And, know, haven't wanted one since. That makes total sense. A little sweet. little too sweet. I do know the exact. Dave. Yeah, it was. Well, you know, Jess doesn't like savory and sweet mixed in. Oh, I see. This is well-established lore. This long predates the podcast. I never used the strawberry dipping stuff with my Monte Cristo's.
Speaker: um I also had a sandwich on September 11th, actually. ah it was a Wendy's Junior Cheeseburger. Those are never bad. no Square patty? ah Yeah, but I couldn't finish them because i went to i was at I was at university and I went to lunch like if nothing had happened because I had no idea what was going on. And I sat down to eat it and I saw that everyone was watching TV and i was like, oh, what's going on? And then I was like, oh, I should go home.
Speaker: and when you finish I mean, what sandwich did I have on September 11th? Is that what we're talking about? I mean, if you want to chime in for the discussion. I was a sophomore in high school, and...
Speaker: Probably I had my sandwich that I would bring from home of choice at that time was generally probably ah roast beef and cheddar was definitely a place where I was living sandwiches at that moment. Would you slap a little horseradish on that or mustard or anything? Not at that age. Just raw dogging it.
Speaker: It would have been it probably would have been mayo or were or or mustard of of some kind. You know what? I think it's important that we never forget the sandwich we had. Now, the moving on. The other thing I wanted to say is ah now that I've been canceled, um the other thing I want to commit to air is I said this off the air last I'm so sad this is not a video podcast because the various shades of red that Jess has turned right now are just... They're the matches shirt, really. But anyway, so I said this off the air last time, but I want to put it on air because I want someone to do this.
Speaker: The Quest Quest theme song Yes, yes, yes. i I get this very specific visual every time I hear it, and I want someone to do this. And I just imagine a 16-bit Sega Genesis era movie where we have of ah we have Jess in his King's Quest. Well, no, we have Jess and Ben as depicted on like the 16-color cover. thumbnail yeah and they're both in houses opposite each other right they're in this beautiful just like synth wave landscape of just like perspective grid pink you know nothing and they live in these two houses opposite each other and the music starts and like cedric the owl flies in
Speaker: and and the camera follows him and Jess and Ben both look out their respective windows and see Cedric flying and Cedric throws Jess the, the King's quest hat and he grabs it and he puts it on. And then he throws Ben the guy brush coat and he grabs it and puts it on. And they both come outside and they look at each other and they wink just as like the, the, the, the bop bu bo but bo bu bo is about to start. And then they both just like,
Speaker: come together and start like power walking down the Sonic 2 half pipe thing. This is a very specific vision I get. No, it's perfect though. But this is what I see every time I hear that wonderful theme song. So if someone out there would like to visually make this, I'm talking to Wilco Webb of all the people because I know he's the one he's going to do it. We're narrow casting to you, Kevin. Yeah, don't put it in AI because I don't make an AI slot version of this.
Speaker: But this is just this is just something I want to see. Although it probably my mind's eye is where it should stay. Anyway, hello. Thank you for having me on your podcast.
Speaker: and That's all you came here to say. That's right. Talk about sandwiches on air live in Talk about the animated. It is funny. I have, that is something I do like when you were like, oh yeah, something we we talked off, like off the record about. And I was like, I don't know. We probably talked about a lot of stuff. And then you started to talk about that. And i was like, oh yeah, I think about that every time.
Speaker: Yeah, no doubt. It's infected my brain too. I'm glad. glad I'm not feeling a lot. Yeah, what's in your mind's eye I think is accurate to what that when Ben was composing that song I suspect that's what he was envisioning as well. Wait, thought you composed that and it was a song about your daughter. Isn't that the lore?
Speaker: Wait, I forgot. That's true. um i don't have the i don't have the fan wiki up right now so it's hard for me to remember all the things we said.
Speaker: of course it's Like that tattoo song, all the things she said. all right. Hold on. Does any place serve a Monte Cristo anymore? Or did that sandwich just mostly live Bennigan's? Well, here's a funny story, which I recently got yelled at by Ben Chandler.
Speaker: Um, several years ago, Ben Chandler came to visit and he, we went to a diner. ah we went to a diner in Park Slope where Dave Gilbert was living at the time because he invited us to breakfast and they had on the menu, it said Monte Cristo.
Speaker: And I said, Oh, Monte Christos are good. You should get that. You should try it But what i didn't I didn't know was that it was a Monte Cristo style pancake, not pancake. French toast. French toast. Yes. Yeah. It Monte Cristo style French toast. So it wasn't actually a Monte Cristo.
Speaker: And Ben thought that I had been to this diner before and I was recommending it to him based on knowing that it was like a good thing that this particular diner did.
Speaker: And so when it got there and i saw that it was French toast rather than the sandwich, I was like, oh, this isn't what I was expecting. And he was like, I thought you recommended it to me. He held this grudge against me for many years. Wow.
Speaker: Many years. Yeah. And only recently was I like, no, I thought it was a sandwich, but I didn't realize it was a French toast. We need to get Ben Chandler on here to squash this beef. We need to bring him in for an episode or see if he's still mad. He probably is. Yeah. Australians hold on to sandwich grudges for a long time. That's a well-known thing. You should have thought about that. It's been little over 25 years I've had Monte Cristo.
Speaker: little over twenty five years since i've had a mane cristo But I really like the part in Rocky IV when the robot Apollo Creed is... What's that?
Speaker: When the robot makes... The robot makes Mono Christos for Polly. He's like, hey! Like that. um No, ah I really like when Apollo Creed gets introduced by the ring announcer as the Count of Monte Fisto.
Speaker: I think that is a really good, a really good bit. Monty Fisto sounds like a good, like porn star name. God does.
Speaker: Well, speaking of porn star names, oh Jess, what have you been playing? I have to remember to turn off the the replay thing since Jake isn't here anymore. Yeah, that was like a non-negotiable. Jake needed to hear this this on the loop. But Ben, what I've been playing, and right now we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to the world of Jackbox games.
Speaker: Jackbox Party Pack 12 just released, but I've been playing it. Did really just come out? It really just came out. really just came out. I got it. buy those right. I'm going to get that right now. I haven't had a chance to play yet because I usually storm out of parties early, but I have had a chance to play in early access trivia murder party three, which is released as a standalone title. This go around rather than included in of the packs. And What's interesting about if you play Trivia Murder Party, it's sort of a standard Jackbox trivia-style game with a lot of horror movie saw-type trappings around it.
Speaker: Hey, this one adds kind of neat... Friday the 13th motif where you're like campers at a at a camp where there's like a murder on the loose as opposed to like a haunted hotel or whatever some of the other things are. so it's got that change. But also, it actually offers online matchmaking.
Speaker: So instead of just playing it with your party pals, you can now go on and play against random people on the internet. And it's kind of fun...
Speaker: innovation for a Jackbox game. I like it. It still is playable in a party setting. You can make sure only local people can join the game and things like that. But it's kind of nice when you, again, you know, you've left the party early because your friends on the internet matter more than your friends down the street and you just, you know, want to play Jackbox game by yourself, Trivia Murder Party 3 is pretty fun. it's It's still good stuff. has some fun new mini games when you get questioner on and you have to avoid murder.
Speaker: Is there, uh, there's no like voice of the other people playing, right? Like you don't hear them. Not currently implemented. they Now, you know how you're like, yeah, exactly. You know how you're like the little voodoo doll, like sack boy type creatures, uh, in the game.
Speaker: That's still there, and all of them have like unlockable emotes, which are things like they can like smile and wave or fart or you know like laugh and some things like that. So you have a way of like spamming this emote between rounds that allows you to communicate a little bit, but there's no text communication element, there's no voice communication element.
Speaker: So have to trash talk your screen if you're really dunking on people.
Speaker: right. Trivia Murder Party 3. Francisco, what have you been playing? Oh, I've been playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider. Oh. haven't played any of that generation of ah Tomb Raiders. how How are you enjoying it Um, it's good. i mean, i played the original 2013 Tomb Raider on PS3 when it came out and enjoyed that.
Speaker: i really like that game too. It's only Tomb Raider games that really clicked with me. Yeah, I mean, the only other Tomb Raider I had played before that was Tomb Raider 2. um So, you know, that was... I wasn't exactly, like, a diehard fan of the series, but, I mean, i like that kind of genre of game.
Speaker: um And last Christmas, I picked up Rise of the Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and Assassin's Creed Valhalla for, like, eight bucks, all told.
Speaker: That's a lot of climbing, lot of shimmying, lot of jumping. It is, it is, ands but they've been sitting on my backlog for a while. So I played Rise of the Tomb Raider over a few months earlier this year, and then recently I was like, yeah let's let's give Shadow of the Tomb Raider a shot. And it is okay so far. I mean, it's it's more of the more of what one would expect. um It's interesting because ah Rise of the Tomb Raider was set in like Siberia and like Russia, even though everyone had American accents. ah
Speaker: So the terrain was very snowy and you know rocky. This one is very jungle because it's set in Peru. So it feels like an Uncharted game, which is a little weird because it's like...
Speaker: You know, obviously, you know, Uncharted was famous, famously called Dude Raider when it first came out. So it's kind of like the it's Tomb Raider doing Uncharted, whatever. But I mean, it's it's fine. I've heard that it can get a little problematic with its depiction of the um the cultures. People of that area.
Speaker: Yes, but I will say so far that I've at least heard people speaking Spanish. which is more than I can say about the indigenous people in Russia in Rise of the Tomb Raider, where I didn't hear anything but English. So they're at least there that's at least something.
Speaker: I've also been playing a little bit of Project Zomboid here and there, oh which had this weird sort of resurgence recently. ah I had never played it. I know it's been in early access access since like 2011 or something ridiculous like that, and it's still in early access.
Speaker: I don't even know what Project Zombo. Like, I've seen it. Yeah. That's it. Like, I just I know what the cover for it looks like. Imagine The Sims 1. But with zombies and a lot of crafting and farming and basically every other mechanic like cozy mechanic you can think of thrown in.
Speaker: And that's Project Zomboid. And it's a huge time sink, which is why I try not to play it too much because I have other things to do. That's a problem. Yeah, but that's that's mostly what I've been playing.
Speaker: Great. i mean What have you been playing? Yeah. ah Me? ah Well... Yes, you. oh Couldn't be. you know What day is it? Tuesday.
Speaker: this i You know listen, I'm going to say something you two are going to laugh at, but I'm i'm just going to say it. You know, the other night... I was in bed. i had my my Steam Deck i open up my library. I'm just kind of scrolling through.
Speaker: what do I have installed on my Steam Deck? I'm in i'm in bed. What's something I can just kind of to play, but you know, to to kind of tuck me in to sleep? You want to know what? I played the first 45 minutes of Norco. Had a great time. Fell right asleep.
Speaker: Come on, Beth. That's not real. I really he did. I told you you'd make fun. You know what I had in my head that you were going to say? i thought you were going to with the new Hellraiser game. Like that felt like a lead into maybe you played the new Hellraiser game. like know it was norco I thought you were to say dressmaker.
Speaker: Oh, everyone's crazy about Dressmaker. yeah I've not played that. dressmaker I mean, the the thing is, is that like, i that did actually happen. um But also, I've just kept playing more and more Car Park Capital, especially as I've figured out how to ah make garages.
Speaker: And now I'm just like, oh, I'm unstoppable. I can make huge parking garages hi in this, in the... ah In the scenario that I was most recently playing, which takes place in Florida, it involved me purchasing large amounts of ah real estate and moving people around so I could build new things in, like, ah beaches.
Speaker: ah I did manage like at a certain point, like so many of these like kind of builder management games, like it's like the beginning of a scenario and maybe this will change over early access. The beginning of the scenario is the difficult part. And then eventually you're just making unbelievable amounts of money and becomes extremely trivial. That's generally true of a lot of these.
Speaker: um And so I revisited ah that one where I had like $2 million dollars and couldn't possibly lose money and just started buying all property and just finding anywhere where anyone was to evict them, to move them into this massive suburb I built on an island. Yeah.
Speaker: anyway but yeah i've been playing a lot of uh car park capital and uh 40 minutes of norco you know i just kind of wanted to hang out there for a little bit check in on all my favorites Like, like computer bird monster. Like, uh, I'd listen.
Speaker: I, want to play the Norco cut of playing up to the scene where a guy describes a really terrible time he was trying, uh, he had while he was trying to take a shit, which is to me the best part of the game. Uh, you know, it's funny. That's also the best part of Austin Powers, international man of mystery.
Speaker: You know how I feel about Austin Powers references? Not too much.
Speaker: Can I just say that as an avid fan of Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. Thank you. You're welcome. I feel like, I feel like you, you all are my friends because you like all the same shit I like.
Speaker: ah but Is it is it is it ah Charles Napier in Yes. Powers. Yes. Yes, it is. A hundred percent.
Speaker: ah best for yeah We don't talk enough about that performance on this podcast. London, England. It's funny. You know, I've just come back from London, in England at Adventure X, where I've just given a talk about how was it? Oh, it was fantastic.
Speaker: the night We have already established. Like the earthquake, like you were totally like weren't affected by that at all.
Speaker: Did you get a piece of of the collapsed big Ben to like, you know, just kind of hold on to like how some people. No, I'm sending it to you. the only what i didn't realize though. I mean, and now this is all old news, but.
Speaker: I guess I just didn't see that in the line of succession that Elton John was only that many steps down from the king. You know, it's shocking. Now we know, i guess. I mean, it's all a mystery to me. Well, he's still standing.
Speaker: ah Now...
Speaker: Just how dare you have a silent celebration of that joke. I've been giving you too much positive reinforcement on on the podcast lately. I don't want the, I don't want you to start getting a big head, at least not in a way that the viewers can perceive. So that was just like ah Ben nailed it. I was really proud of you because I didn't even mean to tee that up, but you know what? You got it.
Speaker: That's why they call you Big Ben around here. Now, and they they filled in the channel, which was pretty cool. Now you can just walk to France. Which one, BBC Two or BBC Three? Channel Four.
Speaker: That's where they they moved to the Great British Baking Show to, from BBC. That's why they have the different hosts. Are you watching this season? No! Nigella Lawson really eats in a...
Speaker: I don't know. Like there are moments where I'm like, is she eating centrally or eating like someone who's afraid like that her teeth will escape her mouth somehow?
Speaker: Like it's it's an upsetting but oddly compelling. You need to watch just for I'm sure there are super cuts on on daily motion video. You could probably pop over there and see that you want to see of this. But mean, you should really check out Nigella Lawson on the new season of the British Baking Show.
Speaker: Is that your plug? Yeah, that's my plug for this week. I'm on it. I didn't want to say anything, but I'm actually on it. I'm one of the contestants. I'm one of the rare American contestants. You know what? I don't know shit about baking. I was like, I was out of that tent. You're not doing your David Bowie accent the whole time you're on there.
Speaker: Actually, Paul Hollywood asked me to stop. Like it was funny. I, he like walked up after the first bake. Can you do an impression of Paul Hollywood? Can we hear you, Paul? Needs a little more proving.
Speaker: my um Yeah. No, he walked up and I thought he was to give me the Paul Hollywood handshake. He had his hand extended. was like, oh my God, he loved my chiffon cookies.
Speaker: And... he's like ran off and slapped me in the face with it like i and he said just quit doing the bowie accent it is not working and i had the costume i had the feathered hair i had the tights that left nothing to the imagination i had a weird little freak puppet sitting on my cooking station this is false valor because you did not make it far enough in labyrinth to see the tights that you could see his dick and balls in Ben, the whole movie, it's like some are worse than others. but the tights, I didn't know this about the movie. That's the grand finale. That's the grand finale of yeah Labyrinth. Yeah. No, I saw a Ziggy Stardust early in the movie. It was it was right there front and center.
Speaker: You know, I went to high school with chiffon cookies. I've just been sitting on that joke the whole time. All right. fras Francisco, queen name how was Adventure X? What was your incredible talk about? You met.
Speaker: Who was it? You said you met. Uh, everybody. Wow. Everybody who's anybody in the adventure game scene. Every November goes to London, England, uh, to, to be in swinging London to attend the premier adventure conference at Venture X. and Foggy London town. Yes. Foggy London town. i had a London fog jacket when I was a teenager.
Speaker: ah same actually i'll i'll i'll go back into some semblance of uh of of professional this is serious yes this is serious yes no i was adventrix i gave a talk about remakes reboots and remasters and why there are so many of them and i cheekily revealed that my next project is in fact a remake of a game of mine, which you may be familiar with, called a Golden Wake.
Speaker: But remake is such ah such a broad term. It's really more of a reimagining of the game. um And so, yes, I am currently getting all up in everybody's face about it, and that's why I've come on your podcast to talk about it. So...
Speaker: i'm I'm curious because i'm curious. You didn't tell us you were here to plug a product. yeah what What in the world are you doing right now? i'm I'm plugging away.
Speaker: But I'm, I'm curious. But I also want to talk about, you know, you've got, sorry, I totally interrupted the host. Yeah, yeah. but ah you did ah you did an episode once about, recently about remakes, and I was like, oh, wow, look at that. I could talk about that. So if, you know, I can i can talk about that if we want to talk about that.
Speaker: Absolutely. I, yeah, that's what I did want to ask about in in your talk. What other remakes and remasters do you talk about? did you talk about or yeah i did you well well have you talked uh one of the things that i clarify in my talk is my own personal uh definition of what a remake is what a remaster is and what a reboot is and basically a remake is any game that requires new assets so
Speaker: If it needs to be, even if it's something like painting over a background at a higher resolution, I count that as requiring a new asset. ah So basically, most games fall into the category of remake.
Speaker: So even something like ah the Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition, or rather something like the Double Fine ah Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle remasters those are really remakes because even though it's the same game they had to repaint the stuff um salmon max yeah oh yeah sorry yeah salmon max is is a true remaster because basically the only difference between a remaster is that it's 3d because a three master or a three master there's a that's a new one yeah that's yeah that's the set that's we remake it a second time exactly
Speaker: ah No, a remaster is usually just upping the fidelity of an existing texture, right? So so it's usually it usually applies to three d games. So, you know, stuff like Grim Fandango, Life is Strange, the Sam and Max remasters.
Speaker: And then reboots is something like, you know, 2015's King's Quest or Black Mirror, where it's an established thing, but it's like... reintroducing it while preserving the ah not necessarily sticking to the canonical story, but preserving characters and lore and stuff like that kind of. And then you have the fourth one, which is a re-imagining, which is where you take something and sort of preserve the core identity of the game, but you make a game that is essentially
Speaker: The same, but also very different, which is what I'm doing. um And yeah, I would say that example, I mean, the examples I gave of that are, for instance, the seventh guest remake, ah which is the seventh guest, but they changed all the puzzles.
Speaker: They recast all the characters. They changed the story. ah i mean, it's kind of still the same story. People come to a house. I haven't played it, but I've seen that like they've changed certain things. But like the scenes are different. The dialogue is different. The puzzles are different. But at at the core, it's the same thing. Same with Riven.
Speaker: a Riven was a remake By the way, i am also one of the converted. um i grew up i grew up thinking that Myst and Riven were just boring switch-pulling games, but I played both of them in succession, and I love them both, and I think Riven has one of the best puzzles in gaming.
Speaker: Fight me. ah So Riven was touted as a remake, but I would say it's more in the realm of a reimagining, because if you've played the original Riven and you play the remake,
Speaker: There is especially one scene quite very early on that's just like, it just establishes that this is a different version. It's like a, I guess it's kind of like, you know, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where the radio version is different to the book, is different yeah to the movie. They're all the same story, but they just have different,
Speaker: elements to them yeah exactly so a golden wake fits into this reimagining category could you tell the listeners if they aren't familiar with the golden wake what's the game about how does it connect to the other alan wake games does it happen before after american nightmare very good uh jess how long have you been sitting on that joke I would say four to five days. Yeah. There was also, there was, let me, let me like take you behind the scenes. I'll part the kimono here. Just for a moment. Yeah. let Give me a BTS on joke. There was an iteration of this joke where I suggested also it was tied to the golden bachelor television show, like some sort crossover between Alan White. i was like, no, that requires too much knowledge of American reality television to really follow.
Speaker: uh alan wake is going to hit better with the audience so i workshopped that i mean i did like ah set the other night at the club just to see which one played better you know i like to test a lot of this material beforehand and that one definitely got the bigger laugh once i trimmed out the fat of the golden bachelor reference i don't even know golden bachelor i've never even heard of that you know the bachelor uh yeah i've heard of it yeah what if the bachelor were old that's the golden bachelor like what if this was a disgusting person in their 50s or 60s um how horrifying exactly it it sounds terrible doesn't it cu actually they can'tly love they can't possibly be deserving of love
Speaker: Looking like that with the white hair and stuff? um No. No, course not. That's the greatest gift that we reserve for young people only.
Speaker: Is the Golden Bachelor sponsored by Cialis? I mean, presumably they actually just have it out in bowls, like at the dinner table. So you just reach in and just go for it. Yeah, no. um But yeah, you see, this is why clearly audience not familiar with the Golden Bachelor, which is why i trimmed it down to just Alan Wake. Now, what's the Golden Wake about?
Speaker: Francisco. Yeah.
Speaker: a
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Do you have it? Do you have a good... don't have a Glick. I thought I had a Glick. Give me your Glick. Give me your Glick. Give me your Glick. Francisco, tell me all about the Golden Wake.
Speaker: Why are you going back to a game from 12 years ago? was so bad about it that you had to you had to get right back in there? Well, everything, quite frankly. um he so Because he has to be mean. I'm sorry. He has to be mean. No, no. 100%. So, okay. So for those not familiar, a Golden Wake was my first commercial game.
Speaker: Came out in 2014. It is a point-and-click adventure game where you play as Alfie Banks, who is a real estate salesman, who goes from New York City in the 1920s down to Miami, Florida, and he gets involved in the Florida land boom.
Speaker: And it is a historical fiction piece because it is based on actual historical events and it features actual historical characters. And it is about the founding of, or is rather, it's set against the backdrop of the founding of Coral Gables, which is a real, uh, city, uh, in Miami.
Speaker: And it's basically a rise and fall story, sort of character study about Alfie and his, uh, his, uh, sort of journey and, um,
Speaker: Yeah, that's it. um And I released it in 20, as I said, in 2014. And I felt that I was, you know, I felt proud of the game at the time.
Speaker: And i was happy with it. And it came out and it didn't do great. I mean, it didn't do terrible, but it was very much a niche thing within the already niche adventure game genre because, you know.
Speaker: it's ah It's a story about a real estate agent. How exciting can that be? um Even though, you know, I tried to make it ah as unique and interesting as possible. um And so, yeah, it's been 12 years. And, you know, I've always felt like...
Speaker: it's, i'm I'm the first to admit that it's, that it was rough around the edges because, you know, I was just getting started and it's, the graphics aren't the best and, you know, the story is a little, yeah, and it could be a little bit better. And, you know, we're all our own so we're harshest critics and, you know, you can always find faults and in the work you do. But first for for many reasons, A Golden Wake has always just kind of stuck in my craw as it were as like the game that that could have been so much better and so a few years ago i was like what if i remade it and i was just like what would i do how would i do it differently and and the more i thought about it i was like you know i have 12 years worth of experience i think one of the things that i
Speaker: you know, one of the the themes that kept popping up in a lot of the the less positive reviews were that it felt like a game with potential that wasn't fully realized. And I was like, you know what? It's true. I feel like I could make a much better version of this game that's closer to my original vision with the skills and the experience I have now.
Speaker: And so that's what I've decided to do. And that's what I'm doing. And so Yeah. before ah Before we started recording this podcast, I went back. So I played ah Golden Wake 10 years ago, according to a Gog Galaxy.
Speaker: I played it exactly 10 years ago. so ah and I completed it in in three and a half hours. that about right? is that about the length?
Speaker: You played the full game in three and a half hours? Unless I didn't use a God Galaxy for it, which is entirely possible. No, that's entirely possible. It wasn't a super long game. I mean, I would say it's like in the three five hour Dan's really good at adventure games, though. He's a professional. Yeah, and I mean, it doesn't really have any hard puzzles aside from like the air show puzzle, but that that's not even a puzzle. It's just a badly coded mini game. But yes, that sounds about right. But yeah, I played it.
Speaker: And again, I probably did not log through ah COG Galaxy for all of it so could be longer in any case it doesn't matter length isn't important um in any case I'm i'm i'm gonna let that one just go just gonna let that one go we're not that kind of podcast we're not that listen you know who you know what they say when you say developers might allow that type of schoolboy attitude naming and shaming Well, you know what they say about adventure games, right? Is that you should play them just long enough, but...
Speaker: um prompting you here. The size of your foot? No, not too much. yeah Ah! Not too much. Yay! There we go. But okay. so i was i' also played a little bit of Golden Wake in preparation. I never played it before. i missed out on it. I wasn't playing a lot of adventure games when it when it came out. I was kind of, I was, i mean, a lot of people know was living in a monastery for the better part of the 2010s and training my body into a weapon.
Speaker: um But... But I, one of the the things that I was reminded of revisiting it is that it does have a couple things that I would think of, of, like, really ambitious, this is my first commercial game things.
Speaker: and And one of the the things is, like, is that has, ah like, a couple different, like, mini games. It has the Seller's Intelligence, which is like, a L.A. Noire type.
Speaker: Yes. ah Like, kind of... you know uh where you're trying to to make a sale to to someone and you have like you know like prod and yeah a joke and stuff like that and you look at their face to see how and then um are like and and seeing the mini games i i was like oh yeah like this is an excited first it's like yeah Would you say that's an accurate read? Oh, 100%. Yeah. I mean, more than L.A. Noire, the primary influence for that particular system was Deus Ex Human Revolution.
Speaker: Oh. Because it does have that thing where you have, like, those first-person bits where you have to convince the people, and you get, like, an implant that lets you sort of, like, read them, and then it gives you the options of, like...
Speaker: You know, it doesn't tell you explicitly what you're going to say. it just kind of gives you like an adjective and then sort of a summary of what approach you're going to take. And that's kind of what I was going for at that time. But yeah, it was I was definitely i feel like, yeah, definitely was trying new things that I wasn't necessarily capable of pulling off well.
Speaker: Uh, so yeah, that's one of the things that definitely was like a questionable decision, which is not in this version. Uh, does it, one of the other things I remembered because this I do also is that like, there's, there's mild branches, right? Or mild like puzzle.
Speaker: Like you, you have some choices. Kind of. can think of at least one example, but I think that might be the only one. in the At the beginning of the game, you get to pick who the boss fires. Oh, yeah. that Ultimately, that means nothing. Yeah, no. and And, yeah, there's, like, two completely false choices, which is that one, and then later on when Alfie's like, I'm going to join the mob. Should I tell my boss or should I not? And then whether or not you do, he still joins the mob.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But, oh, so that, but yeah, I was curious, like, are any of the, so the, none of the the kind of minigame systems, those are out? No, I mean, the only thing, ah oh oh well, yeah, no, no, there's, there's no, there's no minigames in the new version.
Speaker: um But as far as like the branching stuff, because the the whole thing, the the challenge ah and one of the the flaws, and I apologize if kind of I'm going to be dunking on the original version. It's not my intent to do that. So if I get too self-deprecating, please let me know.
Speaker: But um the thing with the with those seller intuition ah or those close-up things where you could use seller intuition in the original game, was that the whole point was that you were supposed to feel like you were, you know, persuading these people, but it was entirely possible to fail each of them. And if you failed them, there was like an alternate way to get what you needed.
Speaker: um It was usually very simple, like find an inventory item or something. But one of the flaws there was that it was like it created this sort of pardon the phrase ludonarrative dissonance in that you're trying you're playing as this character who's supposed to be like a really good salesman. And yet it's possible to like completely fail at selling anybody on anything.
Speaker: So, so that was definitely something that in hindsight, I was like, I should have probably accounted for this in a different way. um So yeah, no, that that whole thing is is out the window. No, the approach this time around is something a little different, which is, um Obviously, I've talked before about like the idea of designing puzzles based on your protagonist's particular set of skills, um like Liam Neeson.
Speaker: ah So Alfie's a salesman. His whole thing is that he's good at talking to people and reading people and persuading them. So there's a lot of puzzles where you have to, in order to...
Speaker: You basically have to persuade people to do things, but you do that through what I, through research have learned is customer types. um If you, if you psychoanalyze buyer types and customer types, there's different types of people. Personas is what they they call it in the business. Yeah. Personas. Yes.
Speaker: So you have like the amiable person who is like, they will only make decisions based on other people's opinions. Yeah. You have ah the driver who is not interested in your sales baloney. They just want to feel like they're getting ahead and they're in charge of the sale.
Speaker: You have um the relator who wants to feel like they're making a personal connection with you. So these these buyer types are all like funnily summarized in a little salesman handbook that you carry with you as an inventory item.
Speaker: And a lot of you unlock all the phrases with a variation on insult sword fighting? Not quite. No. Okay. thought that's where that was going. No, no, no, no.
Speaker: No, but if you, if you, the thing is that if you run into a person, there's a small talk mechanic and throughout the game in conversation and stuff, you, you gather a list of small talk topics. Yeah.
Speaker: And when you encounter a character who can be persuaded, you make small talk with them. And the small talk is designed to kind of key you in on what kind of persona they are.
Speaker: I love that. And then once you figure out what kind of persona they are, then you realize how to deal with them. So like, you know, you'll have, and it, and it lends itself well to adventure game puzzles, because if you have someone who's like the amiable buyer, who is like they, and it's not just people buying real estate because it's, it's not, obviously it ah it wouldn't be a fun game if it was just real estate SIM 3000 or whatever.
Speaker: It's just getting people to do what you want. um So if you have someone who's like the amiable persona who relies on other people's opinions, then it's like, okay, well now I need to convince everybody else to change their opinion so that this person will do their thing.
Speaker: So it gives a really fun opportunity to subvert the usual adventure game tropes. So like I have an instance where it's like, you know, there's a guy who has a couple of inventory items you need.
Speaker: And instead of just distracting him so that you can take his stuff, you have to figure out how to relate to him because he's a relater. And so, yeah, that's that's sort of the interesting kind of stuff that I'm trying to do with this.
Speaker: Rather than just silly mini games with silly sellers into it. I like that as an iteration because I mean, still, you know, i think it's less interesting than both a mini game or this approach. If it's just a dialogue tree where eventually you have to click the right series of options. I like that. If you're moving away from the mini game of the original, this feels like.
Speaker: a plus up on that right like i feel like it does does a nice job of you know taking it it in a more interesting direction rather than just saying that for now we'll just talk to people and that's how it'll work you know yeah yeah yeah i mean yeah now i want to play the original and fail all of the sellers intuition things because i didn't do that yeah i was so fucking good at it that's why i finished why that's right there you go that's right and I'm going look at all of your GOG achievements and make sure you really finish. I actually don't think that achievements work on a GOG. so
Speaker: Your GOG achievements are missing. I see that now. Yeah. the ah And you know what? Like, I know for marketing, it's personas. I don't know if, like, for...
Speaker: like for for this type of like salesman, if it's personas or or something else, if any door-to-door salesmen are listening to this and getting furious,
Speaker: that's why you yeah we hear from them constantly the door-to-door insurance salesman are still mad about our space quest 2 episodes like they yeah know they're mad about not being featured enough in space quest 2 they're with us they're like it's a wasted premise they were because it was such a good premise
Speaker: it's uh kings that the the agd uh king's quest 2 speaking of that's a that's a reimagining that was also in my talk was also in your talk past that was also in my talk that is like the you get a big reaction from the crowd when you brought it up oh they all they all it was a standing o it was Wow! yeah People love it. I mean, it's a great remaster. Yeah, it really is. no Yeah, no, no, but that is actually a very good example because it's... And it's interesting, too, because like when you think about all these games that are being remade, it's usually games that did well originally or that were very well regarded originally.
Speaker: And it makes sense because, obviously, if most of most of these games are being remade by alea companies who... they're not going to pour money and time and assets into a game that wasn't that well received which is why indies are going to save the day right um because like you know obviously i'm doing this because i feel a personal connection to this game and i feel like it deserves a second chance uh the king's quest thing is a little different because obviously it was made by fans but king's quest 2
Speaker: we can all agree that there's not a lot there story-wise. Like, it's it's it's perfectly fine as a King's Quest game. it's It's a pastiche of fairy tales, and but it's basically just King Graham's horny and wants a wife and goes and solves a bunch of puzzles and gets a wife.
Speaker: But what they did with this re with that ah the Tierra remake is they expanded the the story and actually made it on par with a lot of the other king's quest games as far as like you know lore and character development and stuff and his horniness is so much more nuanced exactly the re like you really get a sense of exactly what he wants why he wants it yeah i i also went to to school with nuanced horniness
Speaker: Keep bringing up all these people I went to school with. I just write down all these names for future youth. um You know, this is... you You bring up something that I did want to talk about, which is also it's like... You know, I think one of the most appealing things i about the premise of A Golden Wake is...
Speaker: that it's this Miami story or like just outside of Miami, like Coral Gable story um set in the twenties, like not really a time that a lot of Miami fiction ah typically tends to be ah set at. I don't really know a lot about Miami's urban history or its development.
Speaker: And so I was like, you know, i think that's such a, an interesting, uh like i think that's such an interesting alley especially that's not what you think of when you think of roaring 20s you think of new york right yeah there's only one roaring 20s story to be told uh only one thing happening mean yeah or chicago yeah issue like too there too yeah yeah I mean, Capone ended up in in Florida. He did.
Speaker: He did. i used to I used to have to go to work at the courthouse where he he he had his trial. um But yeah. I assume that, like, ah be you are from Miami. I am from Miami. theyre I grew up literally across the street from Coral Gables. Oh, wow. ah Yeah.
Speaker: Very personal story in that sense. Very personal story in more ways than one. Yes. And like, so when you were a kid or growing up there, were you just really interested ah in Miami history? Or is it just that you're like, I want to show people this this side of this city that i I love so well?
Speaker: that might be explored. Both. I mean, you know, obviously one is always proud of, or or they feel a certain ah affinity to where they grow up, I think. And I always thought the history of Miami was interesting, especially because it's changed so much and grew so much in such a short amount of time.
Speaker: And now, especially more than ever, Unfortunately, Miami has become one of those cities that has just grown so much in the last few years and has this thing about like not preserving its history, like they're happy to tear things down to build new condos and things like that.
Speaker: um the courthouse I just mentioned, the historic Miami-Dade County courthouse that was built in 1925 and is on the register the National Register of Historic Places is literally up for auction right now on like eBay for like $31 million. Oh, never mind. Yeah.
Speaker: just not at thirty yes right that's yeah It's either that or a copy of the original Secret of Mikey Allen. That's fair. Yes, I'm saving for that. but um But Miami has been through so many different phases. I mean, like, obviously, you know, just working backwards, like the 80s is what everyone probably knows because of Miami Vice and like the whole, you know, Scarface and the whole drug thing because of like the Mariel boat lift in 1980. But before that, you had like the influx of all the Cubans, which is my own personal history because my family came over in the sixty s
Speaker: um actually went to Chicago first. ah My mom said too cold went to Miami. Yeah. oh hot Yeah. No, it's fine.
Speaker: ah ah But like the nineteen twenty s and it wasn't just Miami it was all of Florida. the The Florida land boom of the just insane. And I, just insane and I read a book recently, which I highly recommend if you're into like nonfiction ah history stuff. It's called Bubble in the Sun by Christopher Knowlton, and it's all about the Florida land boom.
Speaker: And just how all of these real estate developers went down to this swamp and convinced everyone in the country to just come down and buy, like, sight unseen, this tropical paradise that was just, like, mosquito-infested swamp.
Speaker: And some people made out better than others, and some people were... ah more unscrupulous than others. But like Miami in the twenties was like the place to be. It was like prohibition didn't matter. They didn't enforce it. Everyone was just drinking and having a great time. Like Cuba was right there. So they would all, you know, go down to Havana and party it up down there.
Speaker: um And yeah, that whole just insanity to me sounded just crazy. it just seemed like it would be an interesting and unique backdrop for an adventure game.
Speaker: um But I think one of the other flaws of the original was that I was so invested in um just focusing on the history and being like, look, this actually happened. Look, this happened too. That I focused more on that more than on like the character's story. So yeah,
Speaker: So that was one of the things I wanted to correct as well. Like I wanted to still have the the backdrop be the same, but I wanted to focus more on like the human element of it.
Speaker: You mentioned it was a personal story. Yeah, not just because I grew up there, but also i you know thinking about it, and this is going to be a little pretentious, but I realized like...
Speaker: The story is about a guy who is in a city and decides that he wants to just give everything up, move to another city to pursue ah ah career that he's not sure about.
Speaker: And then sort of realizes that it's not all it's cracked up to be, but tries his best to get through it. And I was like, hmm that sounds very familiar to my own journey as an indie developer uh so i was like well now that i have that experience i can sort of channel that to make a little bit more of a human relatable story about all this right so so yeah i mean i don't want to get too too into the weeds of like the themes and stuff of the story for spoiler purposes but like ultimately i think that
Speaker: the story the moral of the story is the most important thing to get across and i think that i can do ah that i'm going to do a better job of getting that across um with what i know now i'm curious what lessons would you say you've learned from the games that you've worked on in the interim that you're able to bring to bear now that you're revisiting golden wake Well, definitely character development, <unk> first and foremost. I mean, you know, and the thing, too, that I've wanted to, like, improve upon as far as my own design choices is, like, puzzle design.
Speaker: Because the original game is pretty easy. Shardlight was also puzzle-focused, but also fairly easy. Obviously, Rosewater and Lamplight City were a lot more branching narrative-focused.
Speaker: So with this game, I also want to go back to the the sort of tried and true multiple puzzle chains. ah You know, kind of like I did a series where I replayed up on YouTube. I did a series where I streamed um playing a bunch of classic adventure games whose puzzle design i wanted to study including the curse of monkey island and day of the tentacle on leisure su larry seven and and i just wanted to make a more adventure gamey adventure game but also you know have it be telling a more
Speaker: ah serious isn't quite the word because it is it's it's it's a serious story in some of the themes it's it's kind of one of those stories where i guess it's like it seems all fun and i want people to the main thing i want people to think is like oh this game seems fun and exciting and it's in the 20s and stuff but then when they play it they're like oh actually i learned something about humanity right um but i want to do that via the medium of you know traditional adventure game puzzles as well
Speaker: What, uh, of, of those games, what, what puzzles really jumped out to you? What, uh, like, I'd like, I'd love to know what you took away from Leisure Suit Larry 7.
Speaker: Well, it's not so much the puzzles themselves, but rather the structure of it and how, like, the, how the, the, the non-linearity of it and how you can, um,
Speaker: how the puzzle chains work. Leisure Suit Larry 7 is interesting because it's very much one of those, like a lot like Day of the Tentacle. It's just one of those like puzzle box games where yeah pretty much the whole thing is open to you at the at any given, at like the whole game is just out there and open to you at from the get-go.
Speaker: I mean, there's a few places that you can't get to right away because you have to solve a few puzzles to get there, but generally you can tackle everything, every puzzle chain at once.
Speaker: And again, like same with Day of the Tentacle. Curse of Monkey Island is different because obviously you have like location one, all the puzzles here, location two, all the puzzles there. So that was interesting. And I felt like in designing the game, because the original game is four chapters, this version is seven chapters.
Speaker: So i was like, okay, well, I want to... I want to balance this so that it's not just the same thing over and over and over again. So so it was interesting to see like more open design versus more closed the design and just kind of figuring out to how to pace it so that it's it still seems interesting the whole way through. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, I mean... um How, like, what is, in in your experience, what has been a, ah like, you said earlier when we were talking, ah you were talking about how, like, ah you know, giving the the main character puzzles relevant to their their skills.
Speaker: How, like, how do you tie that into to storytelling? like how Like, it sounds to me like your you're you're interested in having having these, if I'm hearing you correctly, like having these puzzles like kind of tie into the plot. Like, you you you you threw out the gauntlet of ludonarrative dissonance now, so we're going to have to talk about this. Yeah, talk about this. You said it.
Speaker: You said those words. Yeah, no, I did. It can't just be a series of locked doors, you know? So, no that's right like, what's your philosophy here? How you tie all this together?
Speaker: Well, one of the issues that I think ah was one of the bigger issues as far as, like, the main character's relatability in the original game was that he was basically a hopped-up errand boy.
Speaker: um He didn't have a lot of agency. he His whole thing was that he wanted to succeed, and his way of succeeding was he just did quests for everybody.
Speaker: And it was basically just, all right, if you want to do get this job, go do it. And he would go off and do these quests, right? So, and then, of course, halfway through, he's like, I should be mayor! And then he doesn't get mayor, and then he doesn't get made mayor, and he gets mad, and then he's like, screw this, I'm going to go work for the mob, because they've made me a better offer, which is...
Speaker: Yeah, that's the correct reaction. it's It's pretty silly. Many such cases. Yes, exactly. Who doesn't just go to the mob for spite, right? So so i reimag i re imagined it I reimagined it. I it. I thought about it, and I was like, all right, well, obviously i have to think about character motivations.
Speaker: And one of the main things that I wanted to do was to give the main character some agency. So now, rather than the puzzles being quests that he's given by other people, it's stuff that he himself decides to do. So this isn't a huge spoiler to talk about because it's basically the... I mean, it's not a huge spoiler talk about.
Speaker: but like so i mentioned that it's not a one-to-one remake like 95 of the story is is that the right number 95 the story beats are the same more or less um like the first chapter is essentially more or less the same like he comes to miami he gets to see the boss the boss is like oh well you you need to prove yourself And you know he does do the three trials exactly exactly yeah you got to do the real estate leaders yeah exactly impress the real estate leaders exactly But then in the second chapter in the original version it's kind of just like well here I am working for these guys I'm gonna do my boss some more favors in this version He's like well, you know what?
Speaker: it's not about who you know or rather it's not about what you know it's about who you know i need to get in with the book the big guy i need to like talk to the people around him and get them to like you know like me so that they'll put in a good word so i can climb up so he takes the initiative to like get to know the other the the confidants and then solve their various problems um And in doing that, it's an opportunity to like you know learn about the world and the issues of the of the day and stuff like that. So like there's a character named Marjory Stoneman Douglas who appears in the original version. She's the the journalist. She's the journalist, yes, yeah who was a real person.
Speaker: And in the original game, ah when you first meet George Merrick, who is the founder of Coral Gables, who's like the big boss, he's like, hey, I need a reporter. ah You know, get me a reporter.
Speaker: So he goes and he talks to Marjorie Stoneman Douglas and she's like, I need you to sneak into this men's club for me. And then you do a little quest for her and it's just kind of like, okay, whatever.
Speaker: In this version, Merrick is more like, uh you know reach out to this particular person i you know you you get you go and you talk to her and she historically was in addition to being a journalist she was like a big environmentalist and she was a big crusader for the preserv the preservation of the florida everglades so we see that in this version she's a lot more attuned to that so i wanted to show off not just like
Speaker: So I wanted to show different aspects of the time. So like I obviously wanted to show like the Roaring Twenties, the prohibition stuff. I wanted to show how there were like people who were interested in preserving the the nature of Florida and how like this whole real estate development thing was encroaching on the environment. And there were people who were against that.
Speaker: How there were people who really were into the progress. um So yeah, as far as the story, it's kind of just like a mishmash of bringing those things bringing all those things together, but then also having the puzzles be teaching you about these things or showing you these things. So you have like, ah one of my favorite puzzles is one of your co-workers who is one of the the guys that you like want to put in a good word with you. He's like, you know, I got kicked out of my favorite speakeasy, uh, and they have this one cocktail that you can only get there, so you have to, like, figure out how to get into the speakeasy and sneak the cocktail out.
Speaker: Um... Which is fun because it shows like the fun speakeasy part of of yeah you know the 20s and stuff. um So yeah, again, not to get too into the weeds, but like yeah, every puzzle, my philosophy with every puzzle was i don't want it to feel like you're being told to go on an errand. I want it to feel like you're having fun in the 20s, which is important to the story and the setting.
Speaker: Now, I don't know if you have the technology to implement this, but if you considered a truth button in the state in the style of Pepper's Adventures in Time? that way Oh, I thought you meant in the style of L.A. Noir. No, no, no, no. He could do that, too. you are i mean, maybe both. maybe and like One should be like truth, and in small type it says like Pepper's Adventures in Time, and then the other icon could say truth like... um Like L.A. Noire. But yeah, that way we can just differentiate fact from historical fiction.
Speaker: Uh, no. Um, i i don't know if this is going to succeed as an edutainment product. Uh, I've already been talking to some schools, pre-selling it.
Speaker: And I didn't promise a truth button. I said, in the tradition of peppers. I mean, that's the thing. Like I, this is not meant to be an edutainment product. Like obviously it's, you know, if you play it,
Speaker: This is not meant to be an edutainment product. Okay, and put that on the box. I mean, I do have a disclaimer at the beginning that's like, you know, it's based on historical facts and people, but it's not meant to be representative of historical accuracy. Because, I mean, I do take some artistic license with certain things. I try to be as accurate as possible.
Speaker: Do you have like a Ben Franklin in a hot tub with like love beads around his neck or anything like that? none No, I didn't have the budget for that. on fourth That's expensive. Yeah, that's true. You know how hard it is to animate bubbles?
Speaker: Man, I mean, yeah. you Yeah, you had to turn them off to save processing power. Exactly. Larry. and um yeah So you've talked, speaking of animating bubbles, you've talked a lot about how you are updating bubbles.
Speaker: the story, how you're updating the puzzles. Yes. um How about like graphics and sound? How much are you touching that? Every, oh, well, I'm glad you asked. a ah hundred percent completely from the ground up.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Yeah. Not a repaint. Not a repaint. You didn't just adjust the lighting. nope nope No, no. 100% new everything.
Speaker: um Obviously, the original game was 320 by 240. This game is 1280 by 720, just like Rosewater. and So it's 720p.
Speaker: All the backgrounds have been completely redrawn.
Speaker: Rotoscoping again. Yeah. ahinematic We love rotoscoping. Cinematic close-ups again. um and so yeah like it's it's and i'm doing 12 frame walk cycles this time oh rosewater only had 10. whoa now i'm doing 12. and you know i was studying the guy brush walk cycle from curse of monkey island which is probably the best walk cycle in adventure game history let's be honest um well well what what was what's the well yeah i mean i really like sam's walk cycle from yes at the road that's a good it's the swinging arms yeah beautiful like i said this i mean max isn't bad either i like laverne laverne's good yeah oh yeah knew
Speaker: Yeah, we're all doing it. You don't see the video. And they're all good. They're all perfect. Yeah, all all three, a perfect Laverne. tip tip Toe to tip, that's a Laverne.
Speaker: Well, yeah. Anyway, but yeah. um So yeah, fully rotoscoped, cinematic close-ups. But I'm most excited about the sound because my original composer is back, Pete Gresser.
Speaker: And he and my composer from Rosewater and Lamplight City, Mark Bennis, have joined forces to become a music department powerhouse. Oh. And not only is Pete, like, touching up some of the old tunes, because we made we went through and i was like, okay, we'll keep this one, we'll keep this one, we'll keep this one. Let's throw everything else out.
Speaker: Excuse me.
Speaker: Not only has he, he's also improved over the last few years ah as a composer, and he has relished the opportunity to revisit past work.
Speaker: So ah not only has he recomposed some of the original tunes and he's going to be doing some new ones, But we are realizing the dream that I had in the original version, which I was not able to ah to realize. There's a song in it.
Speaker: No, there's no song in it. oh Unfortunately. I want to be an archaeologist. archaeologist. I want to be a real estate agent. Keep your house listings warm. Yeah, like yeah.
Speaker: No, my originally for the original for the original score, I was like, it would be great if we could have like, at least like a live clarinet or something. ah But it wasn't in the budget. It had to be all digital samples. It was there were okay for the time. I mean, okay, it was like, you know, but let's be honest, like, digital samples, they can be a little funky.
Speaker: i mean,
Speaker: It's not midi. It's not it's not the... part From Beverly Hillbillies. Let's be honest. I mean, yeah. It's not that good. Ben, can we get a taste of that? Yeah, can Everyone, calm down. First of all, let me make it clear. This is not...
Speaker: music we're about to play from a golden wakes remake not not that at all i have to hold on i have to dig through all my my my shit to find it wow this is awkward i only came on this podcast for this moment i want you to know i don't even know where i have it jeez everyone calm down on your desktop all right here we go all right
Speaker: So, this isn't bad though. I mean, it's fine. A little shrill. If, honestly, for my game... So, let me quickly, to make my point very quickly, as this goes to improve, there's most instruments you can get away with nowadays with samples stuff, but there's a certain type of instrument, namely like brass, that just doesn't sound good.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: oh right away you just reminded me of something
Speaker: My favorite thing about that recording, and we will get to what you were reminded of, is that I have never gone back to re-record it to remove that. When I was recording it, that I got a Discord message from someone. I was just looking down at my Discord, and i was like, oh, who messaged me?
Speaker: No one. It's that I've never removed that. But anyway, Francesco, what did you remember? Yeah. Do you do you both know where Capstone, the pinnacle of adventure or of game entertainment or whatever?
Speaker: Do you know where their headquarters was? Miami? It was Coral Gables, Florida.
Speaker: Yeah. So really, I'm making a I'm making a Capstone fan game, essentially. and I know that Grundislav Games now has you know history and a presence on Steam and all these other sorts of things.
Speaker: Do you think there would be real money in licensing the name capstone for whoever holds it? Like, I'm guessing probably Microsoft has that now. And I hear they're looking to unload a little bit of stuff here and there. why I mean, I do know that it's kind of like the hip thing to do nowadays to snap up expired trademarks and pass them off. But, you know, I don't think I would want to do that.
Speaker: You can bring back, you can bring back. That's true. But, but to, to finish the thought I had before we got into this Beverly Hills tangent, um,
Speaker: The score is being recorded by a live jazz ensemble. So I'm really excited about that. In fact, we had our first recording session on Monday and it sounds fantastic. And I wish I could play some for you, but I don't know how to get it through my audio here.
Speaker: oh I mean, I'm a little, I could try. if you If you send it to me on discord right now, I could put it on. Okay. I will give you a before and I'll give you an after. Okay. Okay, this is building. Bam, bam, bam. And this is all staying in because Jess is about to blow all of our minds with one of the most original observations that anyone's ever made about anything.
Speaker: That's a really... great point that you just made ben i do have uh a really startling observation that i'm ready to be startled i'm prepared to make right now yeah and i don't think uh anyone really has touched on this before yout you don't have if i'm sending it through don't worry Okay, good. well I've just put it in the... Hold on, a did I just get... got You've just got to communicate. Did I just get a Discord message or am i listening to Beverly Hills? No, youre you just got... Why not both?
Speaker: You just got... Okay. so So I sent you a track, which is a character named Doc Dammers. is is that ah Is that a real guy?
Speaker: That was a real guy. Edward Duck Dammers. He was called Duck because apparently he was an ophthalmologist. But he was he was what you think of when you think of the word flim flam or hokum. He was basically Stan.
Speaker: That's his theme from the original version. Sounds good.
Speaker: Very jaunty, you know. This might be the kind music that would play if I walked into a room and was a video game character. Maybe. It is. is.
Speaker: It a little bit baby elephant walk to it. It does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting listening to this. Like when I was playing, ah when I was playing it earlier today, I was like, some of these, samples sound really good.
Speaker: And then some of them, they do sound like I was like little computer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it happens. All right. So that's that. That's that. And this is the... Yeah. ah Introduce. Go ahead.
Speaker: No, this is just... this is this is This was recorded by some fantastic musicians in Brazil a couple of days ago. Oh, cool. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, that's good. Yeah, right away. It's much better. Yeah.
Speaker: Just wait, he's gonna put a little mustard on it now.
Speaker: So yeah. Is this a Cuban sandwich? How dare you, sir? I'm not putting it down. It's just, you know.
Speaker: No, wait. Mustard does go in a Cuban sandwich. I'm wrong. Yeah.
Speaker: How wonderful is it? And I even know this feeling as like someone who's just made a couple of tiny games myself. Is there anything better than when you're working with such talented collaborators when just something like that arrives in your inbox and it's like, oh my God, I get to put this in the game I'm working on now and it's even better than I imagined it would be. It's just such a magical feeling.
Speaker: Yeah, and this was an especially magical feeling because it was great because, like I said, the musicians are in Brazil. So, like, we were... So, so i'm I'm in New York, which is Eastern time.
Speaker: Pete is in LA, and Mark is in the UK. so We had to like coordinate. We all sat in on this six-hour session remotely.
Speaker: like Mark was directing it. Pete and I were listening. And it was just like amazing because we... This first session was basically all the tracks from the original that got repurposed.
Speaker: So it was like, not only was it magical hearing this, but it was also like tracks that were 12 years old that are now being redone and played live for the first time. So was this...
Speaker: There may have been some crying, ah but, you know, well, allegedly. But yeah, no, it was great. It was great. And and I'm really excited about it. um Now I just worry that it's going to sound better than it looks. So I have to, like, really make sure that my... ah my graphics are up to par with making it sound right. What hearing those two right next to each other really did make me think about was you, you brought up the, uh, the monkey Island special editions and yeah like, it's like, okay, well I, this, this song, like, it's like, I know all of these tunes, like the back of my hand, I played secret of monkey Island a million times. And then I play the special edition and it like, you know, you can have whatever quibbles you have about the the special edition, but music is spectacular. I, yeah, no, I was getting that same feeling where it's like, Oh, I'm listening to And this is pretty good. And then you hear like, yeah, a real, like a for real band play it. And you're just like, Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i i know I'm 100% was on the same boat as you like I remember when they they released like a little behind the scenes featurette for ah the special edition of Monkey Island two.
Speaker: And they just kind of showed a clip of the music. And it was just like one guy on a muted trumpet, but he played the melody. And I was like, I know exactly what that is, what track that is. And that sounds amazing. And like, that is exactly the right instrument that they picked. So good on you guys.
Speaker: um so yeah it's yeah it is very exciting it's taking what is in your head and like making it higher resolution it's like oh this is what it is yeah yeah that's great no i'm really excited to to hear all that music holy shit yeah i'm excited to share it with the world but you know this is uh yeah
Speaker: Now, did you already share this at Venture X? Is this Quest Quest exclusive? This is Quest Quest exclusive. All right. Oh, man. There you go. Yeah. We like to break news around here.
Speaker: is there Is there anything else? ah that like So the the music and the art and kind of refiguring... This is it actually, okay, so seven seven chapters, but the similar kind of story beats, similar. yeah Though I assume kind of broken up and in a different way, paced out probably differently.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not as rushed as the original. A little more room to breathe. I mean, you know, you don't have to... You're you're you're being ah careful about spoilers, but I will notice, like, but again, I did my homework, and you've...
Speaker: been sharing art or like work in progress art from the game under hashtag Project Lion ah for the past year?
Speaker: ah yeah about you you about a year and a half. and you're in chain So once I found out what this was, then I was like, okay, well now I'll look back and look at the art now that I know what this is.
Speaker: And ah one of the first thoughts I had was, oh, I think we're going to spend a little more time in New York. no no because new york's pretty quick new york is quick you're gonna spend a little more time but it's about the same amount of time so okay so this is new york minute if you will yes so this is a perfect example of how the player uh is more relatable um Because as an example, in the original version, the way that the sort of inciting incident happens, which is him deciding to go to Miami, is that you know he comes out of his apartment, which happens to be next door to his office. I noticed that when I was i was like...
Speaker: that's called lack budget that's funny yeah yeah yeah he really takes his work home with him um he should have at least come out of the subway like a subway literally goes by but you know whatever hindsight's 2020 and all that uh or 1920 as it were oh by the way did you clock why i called it project lion I was actually going to ask why that was. i Because Lions Roar, and it's called Goldawake Roaring Twenties Edition.
Speaker: Oh. oh Where'd you get Project? ah ah eBay.
Speaker: Did I stay for eBay? I meant Fiverr. um yeah Jess, you've really been deploying the like the the innocent voice, why did you do this a stupid question?
Speaker: This become a real weapon in your arsenal, I think, in the last like couple weeks. Yeah, maybe it has. i don't know where that came from. mean to Again, to give some BTS ah for the members of the BTS army out there, um before we got started, i did tell Ben, it's like,
Speaker: I'm going to need you to carry this episode. I'm very juiceless. I'm juiceless. Jess, I got nothing to offer. It turns out all I have to offer are empty, innocent voiced questions. Uh, to the conversation. Oh, and my stunning David Bowie impression.
Speaker: Can we hear a little more of it, please? It is stunning. Um, um, hi, I'm Jennifer Connelly. Hot dogs. No, wait, that's different. Cool.
Speaker: My little brother, I got a babysit. I wish that the Goblin King would come and kidnap me. ah wait, no, the the baby. Take the baby.
Speaker: It's me, Jennifer. I loved your work in the Hulk. Thank you. I don't get enough. but yeah no He was wonderful to work with. that That's a flouncy blouse you're wearing, but mine's even flouncier.
Speaker: Who are you, Jareth? I'm Jareth, the Goblin King. From the book that I was reading? beyond Precisely that. Cool. and So, welcome to my labyrinth.
Speaker: It's like maze, but more grandiose. you don't bring me... Whatever. Okay. Now, come and come with me on a journey. Magical ball.
Speaker: you ever ah you ever see the outtakes where where David... like Because there was a ah guy... ah who was doing the but like a glass ball juggling, and he just had his hand like up and around David Bowie like in in front of him, and he could not see. like He was looking at a monitor, and it's just him like constantly dropping the juggling balls because he can't look at them, or like and he's really stretched out.
Speaker: That's my favorite Who's Line game. I love when Wayne Brady and Colin Mochrie do that one. Do you have any interesting Labyrinth trivia, Francisco?
Speaker: ga characters you'd like to perform as? Oh, yeah. Do you have any characters, like the little worm? Do you have the little worm at the start of Labyrinth? Oh, you don't want to go that way. This is actually an impression. I i haven't seen Labyrinth in about...
Speaker: I think the last time I saw Labyrinth was like 1994, so I don't really remember a lot of it. Hey, hey, is the big, I haven't looked at King's Quest V in a while, and I only watched part of Labyrinth, as we've established. yeah The big monster guy who, like, makes friends with Jennifer Connelly,
Speaker: um is he possibly an inspiration for, like, the monster guy in King's Quest V and the Labyrinth? in Mordak's castle. Is there any like point of connection there? Or got literally, this is not a bit like, I haven't thought about that character in a while. Are you talking about the guy that just goes, smell bad?
Speaker: Is that he says? Is it? When they go through like the smog, the eternal stench? Yeah. Oh yeah. The stench bog. Yeah. I didn't make it that far. don't think. I didn't get that. I was sick of it. was like, he can't take another minute of this. I have to practice a jerk.
Speaker: Happy birthday, jerk. Everyone shut the fuck up. I have to talk to the main the director of fire and designer of Tales of Monkey Island and Firewatch.
Speaker: Although he seems to be in denial about Firewatch, a game that is universally praised and beloved for good reason, because don't know why you just would not let us nail down while you did on that game. Jake, just tell us what you did on Firewatch.
Speaker: Tell us. Anyway, ah is i don't think I don't think that that is a reference to ah the smell bad big monster from last. You don't think so. No, I don't. I can't remember enough. Like I've blocked out that portion of King's Quest five. I only like to play Serenia.
Speaker: You know i always say been while i'm playing it. Serenia now. i i ah I was I was about to say. Yeah. Yeah. You know me. Francisco has just been shaking his head for the past 10 minutes. Um, yeah, that's what it's all about. That's why we bring someone on is to listen to us do bits.
Speaker: And not good bits. So, uh, so New York, um, Oh, right. So, so yeah. Uh, uh, What was I talking about?
Speaker: New York. He walked out of his apartment, which is next his job. Right. So in the original version, the inciting incident is that Alfie gets fired because his coworkers frame him because he has to pick one of them to fire.
Speaker: And they're all like resentful of him. And they're like, oh, why does Golden Boy have to get because he's like his father was like the founding member of the real estate brand ah company that he works for.
Speaker: So this already creates an issue with the player and their perception of the character, which is that like, he's a guy that nobody likes and so much so that they frame him.
Speaker: And so why should I like him? Right? So that all went out the window. And in this version, we start with Alfie arriving at the house of a client of his who is going to sell his house.
Speaker: And he's like, well, this is the big, this is the big, big sale. I've been working for weeks to get this sale. All I need to do is get him to sign the contract and I'm going to get that big promotion.
Speaker: And he goes inside and the old guy's like, I can't sell my house anymore because I'm sad because my dead wife loved this place and I can't. And then Alfie's like, well, damn.
Speaker: So now it becomes your job as the player to figure out how to get this sad old man to sell his house. Still his meds. Emotional heart strings right there. So that that already is, you know, a different opening, a different different hook, as it were.
Speaker: a little bit more. And then he runs away to Miami. Exactly. We won't say how, but yeah. I i mean, he took the train and in the first game. I assume it's probably still a train. Maybe a boat.
Speaker: He's going to drive He flies under his own power. No, he's going to drive down. ah Oh, wow. Is that another exclusive? Lots of people drove. That is another exclusive. Hey.
Speaker: Is there a driving mini game? You know what? Is there a full, like, 17-hour drive simulated? You know what game? You know, that's not a bad idea, actually. It's more like 27 hours, but yeah. You should desert bus it down there. Yeah, I could. You know what game starts with the cross-country drive?
Speaker: drive Is it the Beverly Hillbillies? And you know what tune plays? That's it. You as they're driving across the country.
Speaker: Pete Dresser has not composed the opening tune yet. So... mean, this is in the public domain. Yeah, no, it's time to go to the Capstone office and knock on their door and say, hey...
Speaker: Can you imagine how great this would sound with real instruments? Oh, would great. Like, don't even know what instrument you'd use for some of the real, like, heavy brass hits. Uh, a dead cat, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. Sitting on a bagpipe? Yeah. I don't What is this? It's like... I mean, maybe a tuba?
Speaker: Tubas are pretty good. What's the current record for how many times you've played this tune in a single episode? I don't know, but it's probably like four. Okay. Opened and closed with it.
Speaker: And then I think I've played it a couple times in an episode. I mean, it would probably just be the capstone episode, but I will say that like the episodes following that one, we were so obsessed with that theme that we did keep playing it as we were talking about. I don't know, like Press for Glory 2 or whatever. Okay.
Speaker: let's Let's contrast this with another piece, which is actually not in the original game. This is another Quest Quest exclusive, but this is this is a piece because one of the one of the other ah expansions, because we never see Alfie's home life or personal life in the original game, there is a subplot about his romantic relationship in this version and a lady that he's courting who he later...
Speaker: marries and uh this is a track that plays on their first date which i also want to say if you guys want to license this for your what have you been playing music in the future i am totally up for you know call me okay all right well let's see our current version's awfully good yeah and we paid a lot to have that custom yeah we yeah paid ah king's wage too much looking back
Speaker: so i've been playing yeah red baron on the sierra network now this would be nice
Speaker: I can imagine this. It's beautiful. And this is great because it's a variation of the original theme that plays when Alfie has to persuade people.
Speaker: So we call it Persuasion of Love. It's got that nice walking bass. Yeah, P-O-L, I see. Yeah, yeah. Here's where it gets good.
Speaker: During the first date, do you get like, ah is there ah like a mini game where you like, you know, make a coffee or something? No, but ah you do have to make small talk with her to learn what she likes and then, know, talk about it.
Speaker: good
Speaker: Oh, boy. All right. Well, ah thank you so much, friends. Don't end there. That can't be the sign off. That can't be the takeaway. Be saying that an idea sounds boring facetiously. That can't be it.
Speaker: There has to be another call to action after that. Well, there will be a plug. if you don't If you think this doesn't sound boring, why don't you head on over to Steam right now and wishlist a Golden Wake Roaring Twenties edition.
Speaker: Oh. So we'll be at the by the time this is out, this will will be wishlistable? Yes. I'm pressing the big green... i've I pressed the big green button two days ago right before my talk in London, England at Adventure X.
Speaker: hey And I pressed it. I pressed it firmly, but Not too much. There we go. yeah And tell tell our listeners, Francisco. Yes.
Speaker: What is the value to wishlisting a game like this ah right away? Even if you just have really good memory and you know when I see it on Blue Sky, when it comes out, I'll buy this thing. Why should everybody get out there and wishlist this ahead of time? Well, Jess, there is allegedly an algorithm on Steam which ah is controlled entirely by how many wishlists a game has. And the more wishlists a game has, the more likely it's going to be shown to people who maybe haven't heard of it. So...
Speaker: it's ah it's like it's important for, you know, not getting buried under the constant barrage of AI slop. Yeah. Yeah, and Next Fest.
Speaker: Very depressing. um So I heard. Yeah. Well, but that was weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that that yeah weeks That's way back in the rearview mirror.
Speaker: valve already introduced all the tools necessary to filter out that sort of thing and so at least we don't have worry about that anymore yeah thank you gabe thanks hope you're enjoying your time on your yacht what gabe yeah gabe newell what are you doing here just hanging out you've been in ben's apartment the entire time yeah he just made apple bars Oh, how were they? They were great. They're a little too sweet, though. You used a little too much lemon.
Speaker: You know what i always say. What? What do you say? Yeah, that's it. That's exactly what I was saying. Well, thank you so much. It was great to talk to you.
Speaker: Thank you, Francisco, also. Thank you so much, Francisco. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate the the platform. oh this No, this is amazing. We're so happy to have you here. And thank you so much for the sandwich correspondent work that you've done for us I hope you'll get back in the game. It's been my pleasure. But yeah, you know, I'll get back in the game if I mean, I'll always eat a sandwich.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong. But I'll tell people about it when I feel like, you know, there's a there's something worth telling. um Gotcha, gotcha. You know, we've sung the praises of Rosewater on here numerous times, a game that Ben and I both loved deeply. Tell everybody about everything else they need to go out and add to their wish list to check out if they aren't familiar with it already. Give them one more time the rundown as your body of work. Well, if you have if you're not familiar with my work, we'll go backwards. My most recent release, of course, Rosewater, a Western adventure set in an alternate 19th century.
Speaker: ah Lamplight City, a detective game set in the same alternate 19th century. Shardlight, a post-apocalyptic... future dystopia game and the original a golden wake which is a fun romp in the 1920s um you can find them all on steam and gog uh you can go to my website grundislav.games that's g-r-u-n-d-i-s-l-a-v.games all of my stuff is there all of my social media links are there blue sky discord
Speaker: I do a newsletter. Now that I've announced the game, I will be resuming my weekly development streams. um Here's another Quest Quest exclusive. I used to do Wild West Wednesdays for Rosewater.
Speaker: Now I'm going to do twenty these Tuesdays. For a Golden Way Growing 20s edition. So that'll be Tuesday, probably morning, which means that I will be in direct competition. You said morning.
Speaker: I did say morning, but it's the same day. Some people can't handle more than one stream in a day. No, I got really mad when you're on Wednesday yeah or for Rosewater. just like, damn it. Now I've stepped off of your turf and now I'm encroaching on Ben's turn. Good.
Speaker: Good. so Good. It's Ben's turn. I, you know, joy and I have to sit and ah go through the library and Gabriel Knight 2 for another five hours. Oh God. You've been kind of harsh on Gabriel Knight 2. I've been having a great time. Are you kidding me? You haven't been harsh enough on Gabriel. Oh, I'm going to, okay. I'm not going to talk. oh no let's let's let's No, no, no, no, no no no no no chop it up let's chop it up let's chop it out off let's gonna be the headline on couldta tomorrow can tell us I'm being torn between an angel and a devil here, and i don't even know who who's who here. Mom and dad are fighting.
Speaker: Someone's telling me... I want people to buy my game. I don't want to make more enemies than I already did with my 9-11 joke, okay?
Speaker: You just reminded everybody of it. Yeah, well, I'm not doing myself any favors.
Speaker: Thanks for having me on. Bye!
Speaker: Oh, he's flying away. All right. Well, ah yeah, you can, you know, be sure to rate and review this podcast. um
Speaker: Send us an email at quest quest podcast at gmail.com. And of course, join us next week when we finally discuss. What is it?
Speaker: Space Quest 4. or i
Speaker: Matematch.
Speaker: Grundy, have you ever played Space Quest IV? Many times. Do you have any thoughts, profound or otherwise, on it? No.
Speaker: no
