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Siddhant Jatia on Pickleball's Rise in India
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Picklebay Founder Siddhant Jatia walks Founder Thesis host Akshay Datt through the full pickleball business in India model - from rooftop conversions and court construction costs to tournament prize pools and the platform layer that no one has built yet.
Siddhant Jatia grew up inside a 120-year-old Kolkata business family and started working at 16, but it took a single session of pickleball to set him on the path to building Picklebay, India's first end-to-end pickleball platform, which now lists 700 verified courts across six cities and has developed proprietary venue management and tournament software to solve what he calls a critical information asymmetry harming venue investors.
In this conversation, Siddhant unpacks three counterintuitive ideas: that the explosive growth of the pickleball business in India is fundamentally a yield-per-square-foot real estate story, that in this sport the spectators are almost entirely the same people as the players - upending conventional sponsorship logic entirely - and that the largest gap in Indian sports tech is a channel management layer that aggregates all the booking aggregators, the same way hotel software syncs rates across MakeMyTrip and Booking.com.
With the Indian Pickleball Association now officially recognised as a National Sports Federation and India actively bidding for the 2036 Olympics, this conversation sits at a genuine inflection point for the sport and the businesses being built around it.
👉How a single tennis court footprint converts into four pickleball courts, multiplying player throughput and generating ₹9-10 lakh in gross monthly revenue at 60 percent occupancy across an 18-hour operating window
👉Why the ₹20 lakh total investment required to build a four-court pickleball venue in India typically pays back in 8-10 months, making it one of the shortest real estate payback timelines in sports infrastructure today
👉What Siddhant Jatia identifies as the single biggest missing layer in Indian sports tech - a channel management system equivalent to what hotels use, that aggregates all booking platforms into one unified inventory and pricing dashboard for venue owners
👉Why Ahmedabad runs its 500-plus pickleball courts to full capacity past midnight every night, and what this demand signal reveals about where the next wave of venue investment in India's pickleball business should go
👉How the Indian Pickleball Association's recognition as a National Sports Federation in 2024 is set to unlock government funding, standardised coaching certification, and a national ranking system for the first time in the sport's India history
👉What separates a profitable pickleball venue from an expensive mistake - the specific location, construction, and community factors Jatia says most new operators overlook entirely
#PickleballIndia #Picklebay #SiddhantJatia #FounderThesis #AkshayDatt #PickleballBusiness #SportsTechIndia #IndiaStartups #PickleballCourtInvestment #SportsInfrastructureIndia #IndianSports #StartupIndia #PickleballPlatform #IndiaOlympics2036 #PickleballCommunity #IndianPickleballAssociation #HowToStartPickleballBusiness #PickleballVenueIndia #FounderInterview #realestateindia
Disclaimer: The views expressed are those of the speaker, not necessarily the channel
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Transcript
Introduction to Pickleball and its Popularity
00:00:00
Speaker
It's a hybrid sport when you compare tennis, badminton, table tennis. I've heard of pickleball becoming a rage. Help me understand why is it becoming a rage? The way the game is designed is very age-agnostic. You can find a 10-year-old play and you can find an 85-year-old play also. A lot of ex-tennis players, ex-badminton players, ex-table tennis players were actually flocking into pickleball. Ahmedabad, we called the pickleball capital of India. It seems like the alcohol ban might be responsible for this.
Pickleball's Growth in India
00:00:26
Speaker
Sidhanth Jatia is the founder of Pickleway, India's first pickleball platform. In this episode, you'll discover why the simple game is replacing gym, golf and Kali cricket for India's Gen Z. Pickleball also is evolving to become a sport like golf, which is would be a CEO sport. We are trying to get the sport into the Olympics at least by 2036. Can pickleball be like the next cricket in India? Cricket is a religion in India.
00:00:56
Speaker
Sidhan Jatia, you're the founder of Pickleway. Welcome to the Founder Thesis podcast. Thank you for having me here. So I've heard of Pickleball becoming a rage. A lot of my friends are into it. It's like the new golf, some people say. you know Just help me understand, what is this whole deal? Why is it becoming so popular in India? Where did it come from? A little bit of the origin story as well.
00:01:22
Speaker
Sure, sure, sure. So very interesting, Akshay Bail, you know, we hear so much about pickleball right now.
History and Accessibility of Pickleball
00:01:30
Speaker
The sport actually originated in the year 1965 in this island called the Bainbridge Island in the US.
00:01:37
Speaker
Started out by, you know, two friends. Just for fun, they thought, hey, you know what, let's try and come up with a new game to engage our respective families.
00:01:48
Speaker
And that's how pickleball just started. So till the 1990s, to give you perspective, or maybe I would say, yeah, 1990s. So pickleball was more or less treated like a geriatric sport, a sport for old people.
00:02:02
Speaker
ah what Help me understand what is this sport exactly for someone who's never seen it? Sure. So the simplest way to put it, Akshay, it's a hybrid sport when you compare tennis, badminton, table tennis, right?
00:02:16
Speaker
So what happens is, ah It's played on a court which is as big as a badminton court. right So it's not too big. um The things which make it very age-agnostic, the things which make it pretty simpler compared to other racket sports that are just named, are elements like, for example, the server can only serve underhand.
00:02:37
Speaker
So you serve underhand, cross-court from one side to the other. ah Now the receiver on the other side will have to wait for the ball to bounce before hitting the ball. So the receiver receives after the first bounce.
00:02:51
Speaker
Now what we call in pickleball the third shot means the third when the ball comes back on the server's end, the person hitting the ball will again have to wait for the ball to bounce once. Which is like table tennis.
00:03:03
Speaker
Kind of, yes. Right. And then you start walling, you start rallying. In pickleball, the court size is typically 44. The playing area, if I may say, is 44 feet by 20 feet.
00:03:16
Speaker
Right. On both sides, there is a 7 feet non-volley zone. So, this is a point where you cannot go and hit the ball directly. Right? You have to wait for the ball to bounce. Right?
00:03:27
Speaker
So, these are the aspects because of which the sport becomes very, very ah easy to pick up, very easy to play. And... um Scoring is ah fairly simple. So there are two types of scoring. So there's one thing called the service scoring. The other one is called rally scoring. Service scoring means you can only score a point if your side or your team is serving.
00:03:49
Speaker
Rally scoring means you can score a point irrespective of whoever serves, right? The game is played, can be played till 11 points, maybe 15 or maybe 21 at times also.
00:04:01
Speaker
Formats are fairly simple. You can play singles, you can play doubles. Now doubles comes with mixed doubles where there's ah there's a boy and a girl playing against a boy and a girl or men's doubles or women's doubles.
00:04:12
Speaker
So that is how the sport typically is played. And ah this is ah like like the racket that you need for it. What kind of racket is that? ah So in pickleball, the racket that's used, we call it a paddle.
00:04:27
Speaker
And it's a much smaller, it's a little bigger than a table tennis racket, you could say. But much, much, much smaller than a badminton or a tennis racket.
00:04:39
Speaker
And is it flat like a table tennis racket or does it have the the net? No, okay it's flat. It's absolutely flat. Okay, okay. And what kind of ball is used?
00:04:50
Speaker
So it's... It's so actually a plastic ball that's used. ah So there are two types of balls typically. ah One which is suited to for outdoor games and one which is suited for indoor games.
00:05:03
Speaker
And these balls have multiple holes for the air to pass. And so an outdoor ball typically has 40 odd holes. So it wouldn't be a very bouncy kind of a ball basically.
00:05:16
Speaker
Not, non no. So the ball bounce, if you compare it to a tennis ball, it's much, much, much lesser. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So less need to run and chase the ball. Okay, very interesting. Yes, but a little more bending, a little more bending though.
00:05:33
Speaker
But because the courts are small, you don't have to run as much. In singles, yes, you do. But in doubles, not as much. So there are the different kind of shots are called... They have shots called Dinking.
00:05:45
Speaker
The non-volley zone that I was talking about is called The Kitchen. So yes, so pickleball has a world of its own right now. Okay. How big is pickleball in India right now? And typically, is this an indoor sport or an outdoor sport?
00:05:58
Speaker
and So typically speaking, at least in India right now, Akshay, it's actually an outdoor sport. But... ah It definitely can be played indoors as well. In fact, it's great if it can be played indoors. But end of the day, you know, it comes to realistic and the economics behind the sport for one to create an indoor facility.
00:06:19
Speaker
But it can be played technically both indoors and outdoors. ah If I talk about pickleball,
Urban Expansion and Economic Opportunities
00:06:25
Speaker
firstly, if I talk about the number of courts, right? So I would say we currently sitting at something around courts India.
00:06:36
Speaker
in india ah yes and the numbers have been exponentially put put that number in context like like this 2500 courts how does it compare to say how many tennis courts there are in India Hmm, don't think I'll be able to answer that. I don't think I'll be able to answer how many exact number of tennis courts or badminton courts are out there, Akshay. But let me just draw a parallel. ah If I compare, say, the number of pickleball courts which are there in India to what's there in the US, right?
00:07:11
Speaker
So India, we are sitting at about 2,500 odd. In US, they are sitting north of 70,000 quotes currently. Oh, wow. A lot of upside. So India is currently where US was a few years back, where the sport has actually gone blown up. India, it's tapped into urban India right now, if you personally ask me.
00:07:30
Speaker
And these codes that I'm talking about primarily, primarily it's, if you divide it, right, urban India or the metropolitan cities will have the larger number of codes.
00:07:41
Speaker
Tier two, tier three are very, very gradually picking up as we speak. So there's a long, long way to go, right? But, uh, yeah And I guess so every sport at the end, you know the infrastructure is created through economic incentives or government support. Now, I don't see government support coming in at such an early stage for a sport. And especially there's not like an Olympic sport or something where there will be government support. So then for the private sector, what are the incentives to create this infrastructure? And basically create infrastructure means what? Like creating courts or anything else also?
00:08:22
Speaker
So let me try and break this down for you. I'll touch upon the government bit a little later as well, because ah you'll get an insight about what's happening ah in the government side of things. First, we'll talk about talking about private players, right?
00:08:37
Speaker
See, one of the primary reasons why pickleball blew up they overseas as well as in India right is because of a very fundamental concept of yield per square feet.
00:08:50
Speaker
Now, to give you a perspective, a tennis court can typically fit four pickleball courts in. Oh, wow. Okay. So the playing area is, as I said, 44 feet by 20 feet, right? You have to leave some space outside the playing area as well.
00:09:06
Speaker
So optimally, a pickleball court, Akshay, would be 60 feet by 30 feet, a normal court. But a state-of-the-art tournament court would ideally be something around 64 feet by 34 feet, right?
00:09:19
Speaker
That being said, ah what typically happens is... Because of the kind of areas, right? And in India, if you see, currently, ah if a person goes to book a court, they'll end up paying an hourly rate of anything between, i would say, 600 rupees to maybe 1,200, 1,300 rupees per hour, right?
00:09:42
Speaker
So, even if I average out, say, 800 or 1,000 rupees ah per hour as the average benchmark, ah I'm...
00:09:55
Speaker
just draw a parallel, say a typical court has maybe
00:10:01
Speaker
say a four court facility. If I have to talk about say a four court facility, a four court facility. Now, if you do the math, right, a four court facility into a typical f facility is open for maybe 18 hours in a day, right? It starts at six in the morning, goes on till maybe 12 midnight.
00:10:17
Speaker
So 18 hours in a day. thousand rupees per hour for discussion sake, we can take as the average value per quote per hour. You multiply that by maybe a 60%, right? So 60% occupancy is what we're talking about.
00:10:32
Speaker
So what we are netting, netting, if you do the math, you will see we'll be left with anything between 9 to 10 lakh rupees a month. right? Multiply that by 30 days or 9 to 10 lakh rupees a month. Now to construct a pickleball quote, Akshay, it'll cost you anything between, you could say 5 to 7 lakh rupees for one quote.
00:10:53
Speaker
As the number of quotes increases because the economies are scared, it slightly comes on the cost per quote. So what happens, a typical investor, if the basic fundamentals are in place in respect of location, in respect of the type of fu facility one has, should be able to ah at least get your investment back in less than a year.
00:11:14
Speaker
So that is what... creates that kind of, you know, that's why private players are actually jumping into this. But at the same time, let me at least warn everyone that a lot of people look at this like a lottery ticket, right? ah Hey, you know what?
00:11:29
Speaker
Let's jump into it. and There's a lot of money to be made out here. But unless until certain fundamentals aren't in place, right, in respect of the kind of location you have, the location plays a very, very important role. Why? Because this is urban India, right? We all, it needs to, it eventually will become a neighborhood spot for a lot of people.
00:11:49
Speaker
So people will not want to travel a lot. So you need to see areas which are ah densely populated. At the same time, it should have the income group which can typically come and play the sport.
00:12:00
Speaker
ah So these are two very important fundamental factors. And third is obviously the way a quote is constructed, right? So there are a lot of these local vendors who, because there's a lot of information asymmetry out there, who take, you know, that people, like, you know, take ah people who want to build quotes, right?
00:12:16
Speaker
ah Because of which the end product is not great, which takes a toll on the player experience. so ah So, give you a perspective. So, at Pickleby, like you know infrastructure is a very, very important vertical for us.
00:12:28
Speaker
so ah And we saw this as a massive gap. So, that's why we i actually set up an infradivision in-house. So, to standardize such quotes across India so that ah eventually this information asymmetry needs to get bridged. right Otherwise, people will just end up investing money and not getting their respective returns.
00:12:49
Speaker
Right now, ah this market has what? Mostly like small operators operating single quotes or are there also like chains? There are a lot of... So a typical venue, right? You will say on an average will have anything between two to four quotes, right?
00:13:07
Speaker
That being said, Akshay, there are venues, for example, in Ahmedabad. I'll give you just give you a an example of Ahmedabad. Ahmedabad, we call the pickleball capital of India, right? It has 500 plus quotes alone.
00:13:19
Speaker
Wow. How did that happen? I'm so curious about that. right I keep having this discussion um with a lot of people, right? So I would say pickleball was, I think, one of the first sports Gurzat as a state took up to, right? There's a lot of land which was available, which could get developed quicker.
00:13:37
Speaker
Number two, it's a sport which you can play after work hours as well, right? So end of the day, as a lifestyle choice with the new generation coming up, it just became... So in fact, I was there in Ahmedabad just about a couple of weeks back.
00:13:53
Speaker
And I was shocked, Takshay. entered a facility ah around 7.38. So to give you your perspective, I was talking about number of courts, right? So this facility had 20 courts.
00:14:05
Speaker
It was a 20 court facility. I entered it. Around 8 o'clock, it had about 10 odd courts occupied. I was told, sir, if you come back at 1230 at night, you will not find a single quote available.
00:14:19
Speaker
so So that's why it makes it a lifestyle sport. Wow. It seems like the the the alcohol ban might be responsible for this. I'm not saying that. like yeah Okay, interesting.
00:14:37
Speaker
Okay, got it. so you were answering my question on whether it is small operators or chains who are currently there, like in this market right now. ah on an average while you know you get to see a lot of these ah from 2 courts to 4 courts pop up but you do have larger ah venues having 10 courts, 8 courts, 20 courts but you know let me ah for example you go to Mumbai in today's day and age right ah Real estate is so expensive, right? Number one. Number two, there is... Space is not really available. So while majority of the facilities in Mumbai, you will see, will either have one court or two courts. There are larger facilities having... Facilities which has 10 courts. There's another facility which has about 15 courts. They work with the government out there.
00:15:20
Speaker
ah But if you go to, say, Bangalore for that matter, right? So Bangalore has a maximum number of indoor courts. They have these... massive warehouses across the city because of which they are able to build six courts, eight courts, ten courts and all great state-of-the-art facilities.
00:15:36
Speaker
So it really varies from market to market but if you generalize, yeah, I think two to four courts is what a typical venue has taken home. And talking about chains, there aren't too many chains. ah ah I would say there are a couple of brands. For example, there's a brand called GoRally. They do some fab stuff when it comes to Infra. There's a brand called Global Sports. They do some great work when it comes to Infra.
00:15:59
Speaker
So there are a couple of chains who are very gradually building quotes across their respective cities. But it's generally, it operates in silos. I'm talking about the commercial facilities here. Got it, got it, got it. Somehow, this industry reminds me a lot of the co-working industry. Essentially, it sounds like a real estate player. If you have access to real estate, you can leverage that real estate, earn better. Instead of giving out an office space on rent to one company, you...
00:16:29
Speaker
break it up and unitize it and you earn more that way and then you also add on a services layer etc etc ah sounds a lot like that ah you know if i was to think of myself as an entrepreneur and i come and tell you sidanth this looks like a good opportunity how would you advise me what kind of questions would you ask me um just help me think through this as a business opportunity okay so pickleball uh Akshay has a lot of business opportunities, right? ah Now, if I have to, again, break it down. So, Infra is one such opportunity, right? Where you go out and you open up your own venues, right? Number two is you get into the business of court construction.
00:17:13
Speaker
But that's a more technical and that needs specialization. Right. Not everyone can do that. Not everyone can do it. The third avenue, which is huge in pickleball, which is tournaments and events. A lot of people jump into this.
00:17:26
Speaker
Not avenue, but they want to curate large-scale tournaments, small-scale tournaments and events, lifestyle engagement, events, Opportunities. That's three. Number four, equipment. So the equipment market is ah growing. As a sport grows, the equipment markets are bound to grow. So ah while most of the companies are from the West, which are coming to India, but there are a lot of homegrown brands as well, right? Who are creating the rackets, which you call paddles in the sport.
00:17:52
Speaker
which are creating balls, which are creating infrastructure solution when it comes to lighting. of When we talk about how do you create your fencing, fencing is the part ah which you used to, ah like, you know, ah create a code boundary, basically.
00:18:06
Speaker
So there is a lot of play there. So the first question that I would have typically asked is that which of these following lines would you want to venture into, right? Since we were talking about venues, the first thing would be, okay, so which city are you looking at?
00:18:20
Speaker
So what I would recommend someone in today's day and age to actually do is to look at an urban metropolitan city only. If to start out with, right, that's a great, it's a great place for you to learn the rules of the game before you go out and expand.
00:18:35
Speaker
Number two, do you own the land or are you going to rent the land, right? Because that completely changes the dynamic. If you own the land, when we talk opportunity cost vis-a-vis when you rent a land, right? So the overheads are obviously higher. The ah ROI is lower, right?
00:18:52
Speaker
So... ah That's there. What I would personally recommend, right? So ah just an inside, actually, so a lot what is happening with pickleball today is a lot of unutilized spaces, right, are getting converted to pickleball quotes. For example, you have a space, right?
00:19:09
Speaker
you say 1800 square feet, you're not able to make any use of it. It can be a rooftop. it can It can be ah a lot of hotels. In fact, in our infabit, we work a lot with hotels who which are creating these pickleball courts. Schools, for that matter, have started opening pickleball courts for two reasons. A, for the students during the day.
00:19:30
Speaker
And after school hours, they're making it into a pay and play facility. So... ah So it's very interesting, right? Number three, I shouldn't be saying this, but say you you have a piece of land which is disputed, right? There's a legal case which is going on.
00:19:44
Speaker
Now you either let that land sit or the other ways you want to monetize it. Hey, why don't you jump into it? Do it right. You get your monies back within a year, year and a half at most. And you could always leverage it, right?
00:19:57
Speaker
So that's how Pickleball is actually growing, is actually ah moving forward. And it's just here to stay. ah How much investment does it need to open a court?
00:20:08
Speaker
um A typical court will cost... Open a court, run it for a year, whatever like before it starts to break even. You need a few months of working capital also. Very honestly, not really, Akshay. If you do it right now, ah because mathematically speaking, ah see, a court, to build a court typically will cost you anything, a single court will cost you anything between 5 to 7 lakhs.
00:20:32
Speaker
Right now, when I say a single quote, I mean, you give me a greenfield project and you want to build one quote out there. I do not ever recommend building a single quote. I would always say build two to four quotes. If you're talking about say four quotes, so that matter, you are investing around 20 odd lakhs in the project, right?
00:20:48
Speaker
Keep a couple of lakhs or say around five odd lakhs for basic working capital and the, like, you know, the, the but like as a small kitty, as a marketing budget, Now, with the math that I just explained some time back, if you are going to net out around 9 to 10 lakh rupees a month just with pay and play, right?
00:21:10
Speaker
On top of that, there are academies that you can run. There are tournaments and events that you can have. There is something called in-venue branding, right? So there are a lot of brands which want to ah advertise within Pickleball venues.
00:21:23
Speaker
So that is also a scope, right? So when you add all of this down, and talking about overhead, your primary overhead will be rental. Number two will be electricity. Third will be manpower cost. These are your three ah primary ah expense heads.
00:21:39
Speaker
So now, if you see, you'll be netting close to I would say 3 lakh rupees, 3 to 3.5 lakh rupees a month. I would say realistically, with a forecourt facility, right?
00:21:52
Speaker
Now, if you divide 20 lakhs by 3, 3.5 lakhs, take a couple of months extra. except So 8 to 10 months is when you get your investment back. Okay. But you're saying the working capital is covered from month one onwards, you'll provided you are in a good catchment area.
00:22:08
Speaker
Generally, if you market it right. Go to catchment area and you market it. You need to create that buzz, right? See, it's a very community-driven sport, Akshay. So there are a lot of these communities across every city.
00:22:20
Speaker
So now, as a venue, one of the first thing you need to do is tap into all these communities. So there's the guy who's formed that community, get in touch with him, build a relationship with him, and invite them over, invite the community to come and try out a facility for the first time, right?
Community Engagement and Growth
00:22:36
Speaker
If you take every box, you there is no reason why these people will not come back. But yes, the location is key out here. um Okay, okay, okay. Got it. Interesting. Okay. And...
00:22:50
Speaker
How, like, you know, are there listing platforms as such? You know, like, for example, if I'm opening a restaurant, I know I will list on Zomato and Sugi. Is there something like that for discovery of quotes, etc? ah So, again, if I talk about myself, also Pickle Bay also is a sports tech platform, right? We have about 650-700 quotes listed across seven different cities in India currently.
00:23:12
Speaker
hey But ah that's just one of our verticals right now. But when we talk about end-to-end listing platform, there are a lot of other platforms which are out there which just do this. They'll discover. At the same time, they facilitate booking.
00:23:27
Speaker
ah So you have Huddle, you have a platform called KeloMore. District um District has come up with District Clear right now by Zomato. They've come up into this space in a fairly large way. But more all the platforms that I've spoken to you about right now, these are all multi-sport platforms, right? So they cater to multiple sports at a time.
00:23:49
Speaker
So it's a great way to discover venues. It's a great way to book. Okay, okay. So is there a tech angle here? You know, like there is a restaurant tech industry where you have like, say, paid puja and a couple of these, which are helping them to integrate with Zomato to order booking, managing, etc, etc, all of that billing.
00:24:08
Speaker
pause all of that. Is there like a similar tech angle here for managing a pickleball business? What's happening currently, all the players that I just spoke to you about, right? So they give each of the venue owners a separate backend using which they can manage their inventories, they can like, you know, a workaround.
00:24:26
Speaker
But what is missing, if you ask me Akshay today, is a layer which actually aggregates all the aggregators. right So there is a layer ah it's ah so in the hospitality industry. So you have these channel management softwares using which, for example, if you talk about travel, like the MakeMyTrip and the Booking.com and the Expedia's of the world, they are all aggregated onto one platform.
00:24:51
Speaker
And for a hotel owner, you can simply change the rate on that CMS using which all the rates get populated across the various OTAs, Online Travel Agents. So a layer like that is currently missing in the sporting, in the sports world in general. I think it's much, much needed for the ease of running the business of, for any sporting business, not only pickleball for that matter.
00:25:14
Speaker
But that being said, think, If I have to touch upon Pickle Bay right now, so this is a layer which we are currently working on. will take some time, but this is a layer which we are currently working on.
00:25:25
Speaker
But along with that, ah what we've tried to do, because we are not a multi-support platform, right? We started out with Pickleball. What we are trying to do is that we have, in fact, already developed our own, we call it the VMS, the Venue Management Software.
00:25:39
Speaker
using which ah the kind of analytics it gives a venue owner where it comes to occupancy, where it comes to, you know, lean hours but with recommendations about, hey, you know what, this is a great time to announce a community event. This is a great time.
00:25:52
Speaker
ah You want to get maintenance done. This would be an optimal time. So it's end of the day, it's like an airline, right? You're managing inventories end of the day, especially when it comes to pay and play. It's very simple. There's no rocket science out there.
00:26:05
Speaker
So optimizing that is very, very important. So there's a lot of data play, which is going to happen out here in respect of who your customers are, recurring customers, and ah how do you mess and was this getting the stickiness is very, very important for any venue to be successful.
00:26:19
Speaker
yeah okay Okay. And tell me about the tournament part of this business. how How do tournaments make money? And how do athletes... Is there like a... Like say, you know, you can do cricket as a career. ah You can do tennis as a career. Is there something similar here?
00:26:36
Speaker
um Yes. um actually So what's happening is for athletes, if you ask me, right? um There are a lot, a lot of...
00:26:48
Speaker
I would say ex-tennis players, ex-biminton players, ex-table tennis players who actually flocking into pickleball. Why? Because A, because you if you played a racket sport, right, you will always have an edge in the initial few days, right?
00:27:04
Speaker
Number one. Number two, and actually, typically, you make money through... Tournaments by going out, winning tournaments, by getting signed in a league where you get a certain fee to participate. If you compare to cricket, maybe an IPL, right?
00:27:18
Speaker
The third aspect is in respect of brand endorsements. These are the typical revenue pegs how a typical athlete gets to earn money. The way I look at it in India, so ah if you compare it to the other mainstream sports like cricket, football, tennis for that matter, I would say there's a lot happening when it comes to tournaments and events, right? So there are large-scale tournaments happening across the country.
00:27:45
Speaker
And pickleball is a sport where you go to any city, Akshay, every week you will have three to four different events happening. Now these events can range from a price pool of say 20,000 rupees to a price pool of 50 lakh rupees to you perspective.
00:28:02
Speaker
So now in a year you will see there are organizers which conduct tournaments with price pools of 50 odd lakh rupees once or twice a year.
00:28:13
Speaker
For example, as Pickle Bay, we do tournaments four times a year with a price pool of 15 to 20 odd lakh rupees. Right? So these are massive avenues for athletes to come participate and if they win, they get real monies out here.
00:28:27
Speaker
Number two, ah if I talk about the leagues, right? So India currently has, so again, leagues are of two types. The first type are the large-scale leagues, right? So in pickleball in India, if I have to talk about,
00:28:40
Speaker
there are what two, three leagues already happening, right? There's something called the Indian Pickleball League. We have the World Pickleball League. We have the Global Sports Pickleball League. So, there are three large-scale leagues already happening. At the same time, now what has started happening is a lot of venue owners have started doing weekend leagues where instead of selling a team for cross, they sell a team for 20,000, 30,000, 40,000.
00:29:01
Speaker
So ah that's again an interesting way for players to like, you know, so if you get signed in one of the larger leagues, it's a great way to get some money up front. ah The third our touch point was from brands, from sponsorship.
00:29:17
Speaker
I would say it's typically in kind right now, the kind of associations that are happening. So you'll get a paddle brand coming and sponsoring your equipment. You'll get an apparel brand coming and sponsoring your clothes, a shoe brand coming and giving you shoes.
00:29:30
Speaker
But ah somebody coming out and giving you real monies to endorse... India at least isn't there yet. ah But yeah, I would say never say never. it is As of sport matures, this is bound to happen, right?
00:29:45
Speaker
ah So, ah while I would say, yes, it's a great place for any athlete or any racket sport athlete or a pickleball athlete to think of making a career here.
00:29:56
Speaker
But again, it's a game of patience end of the day, right? ah The ecosystem will give you opportunities. It's about how you leverage it end of the day. Is it a... Watchable sport. I guess, you know, the brand association, sponsorship, even big money for at least all of that comes the moment you're on TV, right? That's where like the monetization really goes up a notch. ah Is pickleball like a watchable kind of a sport? Okay, so let me put it like this. So pickleball and I would say there's another sport called paddle. So these are sports which are great sports as participative sports or the way I put it, these are sports where your spectators are actually your players.
00:30:39
Speaker
right So now because I am so deeply rooted, I'm so deeply vested into the sport of pickleball. So today in case there's a game happening, an interesting game, I will sit and watch it. right But ah the real play because of which I said, you know, brands, etc. are still on the fence waiting for them to come in is because the entire typical notion of... ah pickleball not being a watchable sport yet is yet to change. Right now, it's a participative sport if you ask me, Akshay.
00:31:09
Speaker
ah It's a matter of, and see, very honestly, ah the way I look at pickleball, right? So there are a lot of lifestyle elements to this. In the sense, um if I had to package a large scale event, so it would actually be a lifestyle ah event having pickleball at its epicenter.
00:31:26
Speaker
Right? So you have a lot of... Like you get Shah Rukh Khan to come and play pickleball with somebody. Got it. Sure. Or maybe have a fashion show on the side. Maybe have a musical concert on the side.
00:31:38
Speaker
So it draws audience by default. the sport grows, people are are engaged. And the way I look at it, it's a great time for brands actually get into it. The ones who are sitting on the fence and watching. Why? Because...
00:31:50
Speaker
A, right now, if you compare the kind of sponsorships, a pickleball will typically demand visa be a cricket, right? There's no comparison. This will come into few decimals, I would say. It's a good, ah so the cost of entry right now is low.
00:32:04
Speaker
Number two, as we are moving forward, right, this has engaged the 400 million Gen Zs. in our country out of 1.4 billion, right? So number two, i'll ju in the beginning, you are drawing a comparison to this sport to golf, right?
00:32:18
Speaker
So pickleball also is evolving to become a sport like golf, which is would be a CEO sport. So it's a great way to get your exact target audience, hyper local marketing.
00:32:31
Speaker
It's a great way to reach your niche target audience very, very easily. ah because of which it's there's a lot of play for real estate players, a lot of play for automobile companies, apparel, lifestyle brands.
00:32:47
Speaker
Why? Because right now in India, if you personally ask me, pickleball is still a sport which is played by people in the upper middle class upwards. It's yet to come down. ah you You mentioned paddle. ah Does paddle use the same kind of coat and infra and all, just different rules or like what is paddle?
00:33:04
Speaker
No, so paddle is slightly different. So i would say that's more of a hybrid between a tennis and a squash. So it has, so it's bounded across all it sides like a squash court, right? So they have the the three glass, which is out there. The scoring is like tennis out here.
00:33:21
Speaker
Unlike badminton, which is, ah now that is generally played only in doubles. So that's a different sport altogether. ah slightly more intense, I would say, compared to pickle.
00:33:32
Speaker
But again, a sport again, which is growing like very, very fast. This is also like a very urban, Gen Z kind of a sport.
00:33:44
Speaker
It is. It is. It's just, yes, if I... It is definitely ah more urban, more Gen Z. um For example, the way... The US has taken to pickle.
00:33:54
Speaker
Europe, I would say, has taken to paddle, right? In India, if you ask me, Mumbai is a very big paddle market also, right? But pickle has taken over the other parts of the country primarily. See, this thing is very simple. yeah So, for example, the entry barrier for pickle is way, way lower.
00:34:11
Speaker
Number, like the coat construction cost for a paddle coat, vis-a-vis pickle coat is 5x. You will spend five times the amount to build a paddle coat. your rate per square, your hourly rates are much almost double of pickleball. Number three, you need to be slightly fit to play the sport, right?
00:34:29
Speaker
Pickleball, because the way the way the game is designed is very age-agnostic. You can find a 10-year-old play and you can find an 85-year-old play also. Paddle will demand a little more fitness comparatively.
00:34:41
Speaker
But yeah, both are participatory sports, both are social sports. And so, paddle also caters to a more nicher market, I would say. A slightly more fluent class as well.
00:34:52
Speaker
Okay. ah the ah So you said there's like a community-led play. ah are there ah like Is there monetization possible for people who are organizing these communities?
00:35:06
Speaker
so very So what have you seen typically, Akshay, these community owners right or these people who run these communities, they do it just for the love of the game. right and they do it just because it's a great way to network, it's a great way to socialize.
Monetization Challenges and Future Potential
00:35:21
Speaker
Very, very few communities are there which actually look at this from a monetization standpoint, at least as of now. right Okay, got it. But if I talk about it from the tournament's perspective, right? It's a very, very... The play is very different when comes to tournaments.
00:35:39
Speaker
See, typically a tournament earns money through three ways typically, right? Number one is you have player registration. So, for a player to compete in the event, they have to pay en entry fee.
00:35:49
Speaker
Number two... yeah ah is you sell tickets using ah sell tickets to spectators, right? To spectator revenue. you The third aspect of the touchpoint is when you sell media rights or with rants coming on board.
00:36:03
Speaker
So, in Pickleball currently, ah while doing, if you're a venue owner, you can do these weekend events every now and then. But for large-scale tournament play, it's a little challenging right now to actually make money. So people like us, the ones who do these large-scale events in the country, for us, it's a wait and watch. You're waiting for the sport to evolve more and more, engage the players more and more.
00:36:27
Speaker
So we get a little bit of the income from your player registrations and a little bit from brands, right? There's nothing called spectator revenue so far in the sport. There's nothing nothing called selling media rights as of now.
00:36:42
Speaker
But will we get that? I'm sure we will. It's just about packaging the events, right? Okay, okay. Very interesting. Yeah, I guess Kabaddi went through like a similar cycle. Very similar phase, right? Kabaddi is not as participative though, right? Like you you need to be really, really, really fit for that. And it's catered to, I would say pickleball is more to do with urban India as well, right? Kabaddi, I would say is more tier two, tier three downwards.
00:37:07
Speaker
So the play is very different. Can pickleball be like the next cricket in India? No. Okay. So if I have to draw a comparison between ah pickleball and cricket, right? See, cricket is a religion in India.
00:37:24
Speaker
Okay. Let's all be very realistic about that, right? I'll tell you what, if have to draw a parallel with cricket, I would say pickleball has potential to become the next gully cricketer over in India.
00:37:39
Speaker
If you remember, when people, ah when we were all growing up, right, we would have call our friends, we would come quickly play a quick game, spend an hour, hour and a half in the evening. ah You didn't really need anything, right?
00:37:52
Speaker
You would just go out in a society or you could just play on the roads. That's what gully cricket was. Pickleball, the hyper-localization of the sport. Which is no longer there now. I mean, you you don't have those opportunities in urban India. Yes, it's, um yeah, it's it's come down a lot, right?
00:38:11
Speaker
So now this is a great way if you want to ah socialize, you want to meet people, you want to, and like, you know, with the entire wellness aspect into play. right? ah It's a great way that, you know, you have your neighborhood pickleball coach. You can go there, meet your friends, book out a coach for anything between 45 minutes to 90 minutes, spend a thousand, a couple of thousand, split between 4 to 60. But you don't really need to get 11 people to come and play that sport now.
00:38:38
Speaker
Four people are enough. Right. You don't need to commit so much of time. So you can come and quickly play, have a quick coffee, you get to socialize. You know, it's just a great way. that If I have to compare, yes. So I would say I would compare it to the new gully cricket of urban India. But pickleball has potential to become the second most played sport after cricket in India. Mm-hmm.
00:39:02
Speaker
In respect of scale, etc. I don't know in respect of spectators coming and watching, in respect of tournaments, leagues. But participation perspective, right? Oh, yes. It's a matter of time. And you will see this happen.
00:39:14
Speaker
Because about how age agnostic the sport is, you don't really need to be ripped. You don't need to be an athlete to play that sport. Anyone, everyone can actually play the sport. Plus the overall move towards wellness, you know, so that also.
00:39:27
Speaker
Oh, yes, for sure.
00:39:31
Speaker
ah sure And as the new generations coming up, you will see that they're just so mindful about so many different things, right? About health, wellness. They are very particular about the calorie intake, about getting that daily movement in, right? So people are going to the gym but maybe three to four times a week in the morning. But after us just going and getting a game of pickleball, spending 45 minutes, why not?
00:39:54
Speaker
ah You mentioned something about government support and what's your take on that? Like, is ah what's happening there? ah So if I talk about India, right? So like, for example, like the BCCI, which is Devo Cricket. So there were two governing bodies typically who were wanted to become, say, the BCCI of pickleball.
00:40:15
Speaker
So one actually did get recognized in 2024 end. So it's called the Indian Pickleball Association. ah So ah I think it's a very, very yeah encouraging step in order to get structure into the sport because the National Sports Federation has actually recognized Indian Pickleball Association as the governing body ah to run the sport. So, by default, structure comes in. What does a governing body do? Like, like what's the point of a governing body?
00:40:49
Speaker
Is it mostly for tournaments? Oh, no, no, no. Tournaments is one vertical of it, right? So what happens is the entire pickleball fraternity, right? There a couple of parts to it. The entire pickleball fraternity, we are trying to get the sport into the Olympics in twa bike at least by 2036, right? So that is the goal.
00:41:06
Speaker
So for that to happen, there has to be a global body. There has to be countrywide bodies ah which will apply to the IOC. That's one aspect. Number two, for the sport to grow, right? Like a private player like me could primarily sit here and focus on urban India.
00:41:19
Speaker
But a sport doesn't develop like that. The association is the one which actually takes on the grassroots development of the sport. Number three, you need for anything to happen. For example, you have umpires for cricket. You need referees for pickleball.
00:41:31
Speaker
Who will train them? Number two, for the sport to grow, you need coaches. Who do will develop the coaches? How do you give sanctity to any event? That, hey, you know what, how do you create a structure to say that, hey, this is the best play in the country, this is not.
00:41:45
Speaker
What is the ranking system? What is the point system? Who who does that? it is all It's all done by the governing body eventually, right? So large shows to fill. And since it's been recognized by the NSF now, ah it's a matter of time before which government funding will also start coming in, right?
00:42:03
Speaker
So we will add further fuel to the fire. How did you ah get into this as an entrepreneur? like like like what what like where You spotted this earlier than most people. What made you spot this? Give me a little bit of your backstory.
00:42:20
Speaker
I'll tell you. foxes So I'll give you a perspective. So I come from a business family, which is almost 120 years old now. So i'm I would say I'm a conventional business guy. ah Started working very young. Yeah, started working when I was...
00:42:33
Speaker
just what, 16? Way back in school. ah In your family business? Like you started helping your dad? Eventually, initially, yes, and started by helping my dad. We didn't have too many working hands. So it was just a father and son team. It still is a father and son team, i would say.
00:42:51
Speaker
ah So into healthcare, care we into hospitality, we were into auto wheels for the longest time till about COVID happened into real estate. So a bunch of conventional businesses, I would say. So my ah introduction to pickleball actually happened first as a player, to give a perspective. This was almost, I would say, early...
00:43:09
Speaker
Late 2023, early 2024, right? So again, if it was i remember a friend of mine was like, hey, you know what? There's a new sport which has come up. Why don't you we go and try it? Or I've tried it once, you come with me.
00:43:21
Speaker
And I had not played sport since I got out of school, right? Because you don't get the time to really do it, right? Because for me, the real world happened pretty, pretty early. So I was like, okay, fine, let's give it a shot.
00:43:35
Speaker
so That one session, Akshay, it became two sessions a week, became three sessions a week. To a time, it I started playing tournaments. And I was like, hey, you know what? Since school, I've... Like, you know, like your social circle, if I have to talk about the social circle side of things, right it gets fairly limited. You don't get to meet new people. You are in your own world, in your own bubble.
00:43:56
Speaker
You meet your colleagues on a daily basis. You meet your childhood friends or your college friends on a regular basis. But... um What I saw was by playing the sport and by playing the participating in these events, I was making friends who were 20 years older to me. I was making friends 5 years, 10 years younger to me.
00:44:13
Speaker
And I was like, okay, this is interesting. What is is going on? Number three, participating in events, I saw that, you know, there were events where I was entering at maybe 10 o'clock in the morning, leaving at 1 o'clock at night. Nobody had a clue about what was going on. It was very, very unorganized.
00:44:29
Speaker
ah Then started visiting a few facilities back then, my city had what, four to five courts. Right now, we're sitting on 100 plus courts, almost 100 courts, I would say. Quality standards were different. like It was different in different in different places. Finding where to play.
00:44:44
Speaker
The entire pickleball community was only on WhatsApp. right That's where people, hey, who wants to play today? And they these are WhatsApp groups with thousands of people. out it To give you a perspective. Right now, we ourselves are engaging at least 10,000 players across our own WhatsApp communities.
00:45:00
Speaker
Across cities. To give you a perspective. So people are finding players to play with. They're finding quotes which are are available. So what happened, i was like, okay, fine. Now, I e obviously love the sport. I have a passion for it. But, you know, if it was just that, I could have continued just play.
00:45:19
Speaker
Now what happened is that I saw a real business that is to be made out here. There was a lot of things which could get structured. And what I realized a lot of people were into sport, were into multi-sport. I wanted to go vertically down, create a tech stack which tries and solves all the pain points I personally faced as a player first.
00:45:41
Speaker
And you you know, because it's sport, it has to be fidgetal also. It means while there's a digital angle to it, there has to be a physical aspect to it. That's when tournaments happen. We started creating new benchmarks about how a good large scale organized tournament should actually happen.
00:45:55
Speaker
ah Certain fundamentals were in place. We started profiling players. ah We started building state-of-the-art facilities. To give you a perspective, right now, we are sitting on a pipeline of 750 courts in India right now where people are showed into the area you want to build a court and we talk to them the entire team.
00:46:11
Speaker
So that is the kind of demands that we are talking about currently. Large skill events. We plan to do... So I would say that we've done a lot when it comes to tournaments and events. I think Pickleby venues would be ah the thing for our squad 2026 and onwards. ah I would want to show... yeah You would do like a franchising model for venues or you will actually own operate whatever like...
00:46:35
Speaker
Oh, no, no. I would definitely operate it for sure. The owning bit is something I would take a call from city to city. it might I might get partners on board from different cities. But operate definitely would be. Because again, I'll tell you, actually the way I look at it, a vanilla pickleball facility ah will not last in India, if you ask me, right? It needs to be a lifestyle hub.
00:46:57
Speaker
it There needs to be a lot more which engages a person through the day. You know, what stops from creating a small little co-working space along with your pi pickleball courts? What stops you from creating a cafeteria, a couple of other things? So, the way we have designed our facilities, so the backend work is finally completed. Now, will we'll be going to market very soon with this. ah These are facilities which at least India, i would say, has not seen yet.
00:47:23
Speaker
So we need to take things a notch higher when it comes to a the venue play as well. Right? And engaging communities doing small scale events, large scale events is great.
00:47:34
Speaker
So there's, so it's competition, courts and community. So these are the three C's if i have to typically break it down. Okay. Okay. Do you see this becoming like a hundred crore revenue business?
00:47:48
Speaker
And how, how would the split of revenue look like at that stage? A hundred crore? Oh, yes, definitely, I would say. Because so typically, the lion's share would come from venues and infra, firstly, right? Because that is real money is out there. It's brick and mortar. And brick and mortar will buy default.
00:48:11
Speaker
Now, I'm talking pure revenue. I'm not talking valuations right now, Akshay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, revenue. It's zero revenue. So you're talking venues, you're talking infra. So these are the two revenue pegs using which you are able to achieve most of the milestones. As the sport evolves more and more, the tournament side of things, right, which we actually doubled on in year one because of which, you know, a lot of people already know us, that gets activated. So the minute, you know, brands start coming in, media rights start getting sold, right?
00:48:42
Speaker
So that's a whole different world altogether. So I would say 100 crore revenue, sure, it's a mo matter of time. We've just about completed year one right now. But as the sport evolves and I would still call myself as one of the early movers into the a business side of the sport, I think 100% there is a lot of potential there.
00:49:02
Speaker
Is this a VC fundable business? VC fundable? Yes, definitely. Why not? The tech side of things, if you are again talk about it, right? There's a lot of play there because... ah You are eventually going and essay aggregating all the codes which are out there. Firstly, as a discovery, which where we will be pushing out our VMS moving forward.
00:49:23
Speaker
Number two, talking about, so we have a solution called a tournament management software using which ah every tournament organizers can digitally run their events.
00:49:34
Speaker
without and You have like a ass revenue as part of your business. Right. So that too is there. and And I told you every week across every city in the country there where pickleball has happened, there are tournaments happening. So that's a huge market by default.
00:49:51
Speaker
ah So a lot of valuation comes from there. Third aspect is the real side of the business, which is your infra, which is your venues. So that happens. And...
00:50:02
Speaker
By infra, you mean like the the construction service? Building codes. Yes, the construction service, right? And are you also planning ah like a D2C brand with equipment and all? ah My own brand, no. I am not planning to come up with any brand as of now, at Subshare.
00:50:18
Speaker
What I plan to do is maybe create a marketplace. Why? Because we are solving everything in Pickleball as of now. And what happens, okay, see the minute this is cracked, right, for Pickleball, my tech stack is cracked. If I want to create a paddle bay tomorrow, I want to create a shuttle bay for badminton day after, nothing stops me. It is all about cracking that one model, right? So it's very easily replicable across sports.
00:50:43
Speaker
especially if you want to doubt double down on recreational and participative sports, where there's a lot of lifestyle play happening. Fascinating. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Sidant. It was a real pleasure.
00:50:56
Speaker
Likewise, Akshay. Thank you so much.