Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tun ing in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: This is episode 71.
Speaker: I'm your host as always, Josh Roop, with me, my co-captain.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: I almost did that backwards.
Speaker: I almost said, I'm your co-captain, Josh Roop, with your host as always.
Speaker: I could be the co-captain today.
Speaker: Maybe I could be the host today.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: That wouldn't be bad.
Speaker: And usually I'm the Ed McMahon to your Johnny Carson.
Speaker: And someone just messaged us today and they're like, how did you get rid of all 21 sponsors that you have?
Speaker: So in fairness, we actually, we still are friends with all these people, but a lot of people said, you know, we just kind of fast forward past that stuff.
Speaker: So we are still, we're still willing to focus on people and to spotlight people.
Speaker: Still love Brad from Let Frames.
Speaker: And if you have a translate you want to illuminate, reach out to him.
Speaker: He, and he lives near the Chicago area.
Speaker: So if you're heading out to Expo, I'm sure you can figure something out.
Speaker: But as always, flipping out pinball if you're looking for that new machine.
Speaker: And I know it's hard to dig up supply right now, but Zach and Nicole will always do their best to find that machine for you.
Speaker: Either a new game or even that grail that you just haven't been able to find yourself.
Speaker: They also have a deal with Raw Thrills.
Speaker: So if you want to get that Jurassic Park environmental, go ahead and buy that and put that in the garage.
Speaker: You don't need a car.
Speaker: But definitely check out Zach and Nicole.
Speaker: And I also have a premium ordered and we'll see when we get those in.
Speaker: So we're excited to get those out.
Speaker: Rumor has it, I know they've started shipping the LEs.
Speaker: Pros are already out on location.
Speaker: And, uh, they're mixing in a little bit of pros and premiums.
Speaker: So it's not just the standard run of pros and then the premiums at the end.
Speaker: I think that's a good move by Stern.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Well, but the other problem I've heard too, though, is, is, uh, a bunch of premium stuff setting on the dock out in the Harbor and, uh, they're pushing back premiums already past the first of the year, but I could be wrong.
Speaker: It's all speculation.
Speaker: But it doesn't surprise me.
Speaker: I mean, this is nothing new for anybody who lives in America is that there are stories about cargo freights that are sitting off of Long Beach.
Speaker: And this is the world we live in.
Speaker: So we're still dealing with shortages.
Speaker: So if you are interested, get on the list because that's the best way to make sure that you have one on order.
Speaker: You can't.
Speaker: It's harder to do an impulse buy in today's day and age.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was nice.
Speaker: Was it even last year?
Speaker: It was the year before.
Speaker: They just call up Zach and be like, what you got in stock?
Speaker: He still has stock.
Speaker: He has little, but he has stock.
Speaker: He has a few.
Speaker: I talked to him recently.
Speaker: He had Avengers Pros, and I think he had some others too.
Speaker: But Avengers Pro is still a great game if you want to get that, and you can sneak that in at the early price.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, good times.
Speaker: So, Josh, Expo's coming up, but let's talk about the news.
Speaker: What's coming up?
Speaker: You know, it's been a while since we've talked about the news.
Speaker: We had our Keith Elwin episode, and then before that, we pretty much had an episode dedicated to the reveal of Godzilla, and
Speaker: And so before that was Joe Cam and Cal.
Speaker: So we really haven't talked news for a little bit.
Speaker: Not too much.
Speaker: And so I was going back over the stuff that we haven't really talked about.
Speaker: There was quite a handful of things that happened in the last month to month and a half.
Speaker: It's kind of crazy what has happened outside of even just Stern reveals, which is crazy because Stern revealed another pinball machine since we've talked about Godzilla, which is crazy in my opinion.
Speaker: You know, it's not crazy.
Speaker: I think it makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we're obviously talking about the Jurassic Park home pin edition that was designed by Jack Danger and the people at Stern.
Speaker: So I'm sure he had some help there.
Speaker: But hey, it looks fun.
Speaker: And I do find it funny, and people have brought this up, that it's under the affordable pins, which by inference says that our other pins aren't affordable.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: the bottom line is this is intended for a game room, like a homeroom.
Speaker: Um, it's, uh, I guess the target audience is the guy or the girl or the family who's making their, their family game room and they, they want a pool table and they want to, uh,
Speaker: foosball table and they want a pinball machine and it's still pretty steep it's still in the 4000 range but it's still different than like a six or eight thousand or nine thousand game yeah so that there's they are targeting that audience is what's going on
Speaker: Do you think, because people talk about how a Stern Pro five years ago, six years ago, was about this price, the $4,600.
Speaker: Do you think the pin, they're going to start producing more of those, and this is what's going to be the quote-unquote pro option at this point, even though it's not part of a larger series of pinball machines or cornerstones?
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: By definition, I would say not the pro because pro implies, or at least that implies that you can use it in a professional setting, right?
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so by pro, I would say the definition of having a pro game would be a coin mech and an ability to put it on location to make money on it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: However, it has become a little more of that entry level.
Speaker: And in the 2000s, there was all these cost-cutting measures.
Speaker: I mean, you look at a lot of those games and they were pretty sparse.
Speaker: I had an Iron Man and it was fun.
Speaker: But if you compare all the stuff on Iron Man versus what they're making now, even Tron, really.
Speaker: And Tron is a good game, but it's not as packed as what they have now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So this this is certainly in the era of, hey, if you want something that's a that's a little more scaled back, then I don't like the term stripped down, but you can say scaled back because the game looks fun.
Speaker: I would say the game looks fun.
Speaker: What do you think?
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: I think that this is very comparable to a 2000 Stern.
Speaker: Everyone's complaining that the price is going up, yet have you seen Sterns lately?
Speaker: They're pretty packed.
Speaker: So the only logical explanation is if you're going to compare them to a 2000 Stern, then you better put out a pinball machine that's like a 2000 Stern.
Speaker: So here you go.
Speaker: Well, the challenge too is there is inflation.
Speaker: And I'm going to set the Wayback Machine to 1980 something.
Speaker: And when I was a kid and homesick and watched The Price is Right, every single car on The Price is Right was under $10,000.
Speaker: And it was a big deal when they brought out the one because it was, ooh, this is above a $10,000 car.
Speaker: Sorry, did I say pinned?
Speaker: I mean car.
Speaker: So every car was around $7,000 to $8,000.
Speaker: Well, you know that cars aren't that price now.
Speaker: So this is 40 years later.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: But now cars and trucks typically are $60,000, $70,000.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you're going to get inflation.
Speaker: You're going to get an elevation of prices.
Speaker: And the bottom line is they are a business.
Speaker: This isn't a charity.
Speaker: And so Stern's going to target and find, I'm sure they've done market research to find what people want.
Speaker: And if people are willing to spend a certain price for a certain product, then that's what they're going to tailor.
Speaker: But you also have people who are
Speaker: They're not really interested in an over $10,000 machine, but they still want the experience of having a pinball machine.
Speaker: Well, and someone pointed out to me recently that, well, Woods went down.
Speaker: You know, Wood was a 2x4x8 was almost $10 six months ago.
Speaker: Now it's down to $354.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: But the problem is, is I'm in the business of metal.
Speaker: I don't know if anyone knows that.
Speaker: And metal costs for me, before it hits the customer, has went up 125% in the last four months.
Speaker: And there is a lot of metal on a pinball machine.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: It's hard.
Speaker: It's hard.
Speaker: Well, they have factories.
Speaker: They have a giant assembly line.
Speaker: They have designers.
Speaker: There's research and development.
Speaker: There's everything that goes into it.
Speaker: And so for it to... I actually think it's fine.
Speaker: The price, I don't have a problem with it.
Speaker: Because if the price is too high, I realized long ago that the mistake people make is assuming that their price point is the price point for everybody.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because I'm Josh.
Speaker: Do you own a do you own a Tesla like an X with those fancy doors?
Speaker: Oh, no, no.
Speaker: But I see them all over.
Speaker: OK, it's not my car.
Speaker: I I I as of yet have never purchased one hundred thousand dollar car.
Speaker: The most it's been is like around 50.
Speaker: But, you know, that's, that is my, that is my price point.
Speaker: But I also understand that, you know, a pro is a price point for someone, a premium is a price point for someone.
Speaker: And I, my buddy is on the, I want every LE list.
Speaker: I'm not on that list.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But that's his price point.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I I'm okay with it.
Speaker: Cause it doesn't feel like it's a stripped down model.
Speaker: It just feels like a scaled back model.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I I'm excited to play it at expo.
Speaker: So we'll, we'll certainly do some, uh, do some flips on it.
Speaker: Um, how, okay.
Speaker: Who sells these machines?
Speaker: Josh.
Speaker: Um, well, we do know that, um,
Speaker: Distributors have to sell a couple, right?
Speaker: Like that's like, that's an agreement.
Speaker: They take their standard allotment and yes, and they can order over the top, uh, like on top of that.
Speaker: Um, I guess one challenge that people can have is that I don't think you're going to sell these to your standard pinball enthusiast.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I would say your standard pinball enthusiast for $4,500 is probably going to be looking at either
Speaker: um, ponying up the extra thousand dollars and getting a pro or they're looking at the used market for, um, you know, for like a fish tails or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I, I don't see too many people buying these machines, but I would be curious if anyone's listening and they have experience ordering these home pin additions, whether or not it's Spider-Man or,
Speaker: If you're interested in the Jurassic Park one or you got the Star Wars one, reach out.
Speaker: We have a good friend who has the Star Wars Home Edition.
Speaker: He loves it.
Speaker: So I'm just curious to see who else buys these.
Speaker: But I tend not to think it's the pinball enthusiast market.
Speaker: Once again, it's just another avenue for Stern to explore.
Speaker: I know that people were complaining about...
Speaker: Well, they already can't get to the Mandalorians and they can't get to the Godzillas that they have and all the back order that they have.
Speaker: If you guys listen to, if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend it.
Speaker: Go to the final round pinball podcast with the interview with Zach Sharp.
Speaker: And he said that they have an agreement with these licensors that they will get their product out in a certain time frame.
Speaker: Time's ticking.
Speaker: Time is ticking.
Speaker: When you sign a contract, the time is ticking.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And I don't know what the agreement was because COVID did throw a wrench in everything.
Speaker: It's still throwing a wrench in everything.
Speaker: And I mean, you can go further down the rabbit hole in that discussion, but I prefer not to.
Speaker: But I think that...
Speaker: They're doing out of necessity what they have to do as the agreement with their licensors.
Speaker: And honestly, that's what keeps them alive.
Speaker: We've talked about license is king right now, right?
Speaker: License first, design second, code third.
Speaker: You could probably even interchange those after Walking Dead proved.
Speaker: But you just...
Speaker: You have to keep the licensors happy.
Speaker: And so, like I said, if you haven't checked it out, go check out Final Round's most recent episode with Zach Sharp.
Speaker: Very insightful.
Speaker: I actually only saw or only heard...
Speaker: I can neither confirm nor deny once, I think, throughout the whole thing.
Speaker: So he was pretty open on it.
Speaker: No, he was really good.
Speaker: And well, they were also asking questions that they knew they could ask.
Speaker: I mean, they didn't say, hey, what are the next five releases?
Speaker: And so that makes it a little easier when you're not treading into dangerous territory.
Speaker: But they, it is interesting seeing it from their standpoint.
Speaker: And occasionally we'll say something and we'll get some feedback and they'll say, yeah, well, a lot of it, a lot of it's licensing.
Speaker: So just keep that in mind.
Speaker: There's the enthusiast who wants X, Y, and Z, but the licensor doesn't give you X, Y, and Z. Or there's too many to me to sign off on it and they just, they're waiting.
Speaker: You know, it.
Speaker: R2D2 topper, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now, with this, does it help or hurt, Jack, that he is going against the Keith Elwin design?
Speaker: I don't think it hurts him one bit.
Speaker: Originally, I did.
Speaker: I originally thought, you know, he's going up against a game that's considered a classic and is ranked very high on the pin side.
Speaker: I think it's number two right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But then again, like it's been said in the past, these games really aren't made for us.
Speaker: They're made for a different market.
Speaker: And I think if you're buying a pinball machine at this cost, you're not going to be doing it based off of game design and code and all that jazz.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I think it actually played into Dangerous Favor.
Speaker: And the reason being is they had a fully-fledged game.
Speaker: Stern didn't have to spend a ton on artwork because they reused some of the artwork, just kind of rearranged it.
Speaker: I mean, you've already got all the animations there.
Speaker: It's the reuse of the animation, the same sounds.
Speaker: There might be some added.
Speaker: I'm not for sure.
Speaker: But I mean, really, your bomb on this was probably a little more flexible, even though the price was brought way down.
Speaker: But it's because a lot of the assets were already there.
Speaker: They were just kind of reusing what they already had.
Speaker: And I don't know what the agreement with the licensor is.
Speaker: You're still paying for assets.
Speaker: Yeah, you're still paying for assets.
Speaker: If you put a sticker on Lunchbox, you're still paying for the assets.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: But if you're only paying to design.
Speaker: It could have been a rate.
Speaker: And I bet they probably talked with the licensor about having a lower priced option, a scaled back option, and they probably scaled back the licensing.
Speaker: This is me speculating, scaled back the licensing appropriately to fit into the cost.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: So I'm really interested to play it.
Speaker: And, you know, I think there is a market for this.
Speaker: Probably nobody.
Speaker: OK, this is my guess.
Speaker: And I would be surprised.
Speaker: I doubt people who listen to pinball podcasts are going to buy it.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: But that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
Speaker: It just means it's for a different market.
Speaker: Might as well.
Speaker: Hey, Stern wouldn't be making these if there wasn't money there to be made.
Speaker: So obviously they know something we don't.
Speaker: Well, this is going along with when they started doing the pro premium in LE.
Speaker: It's the three-legged approach of having the collector or the home enthusiast or the bar.
Speaker: And you have something for everybody.
Speaker: And it's the same thing as cars.
Speaker: You're going to have cars.
Speaker: If you look at a truck, go and try to buy a truck.
Speaker: And you have like a basic truck that, hey, we are hauling air conditioners.
Speaker: We do not need all the fancy bells and whistles.
Speaker: And then you get the guys who want all the bells and whistles.
Speaker: And they're willing to pay three times as much for a truck because they want all that.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Same, same thing with pinball.
Speaker: Uh, I want to move on.
Speaker: I want to move on to cactus Canyon.
Speaker: I think, cause honestly, at this point it's, we're going to play at expo and then probably get our thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Let's move on to Cactus Canyon, which we're probably going to play at Expo and then give our thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll give our thoughts.
Speaker: A lot of this is a preview of Expo, all the things we're looking forward to at Expo.
Speaker: So since we talked last about Cactus Canyon, because it was just a slide on a piece of white sheet at some convention a month and a half ago, we didn't know everything that we'd know today.
Speaker: We're still going to get more.
Speaker: As far as I'm aware, there's still an interview coming out with Super Awesome Pinball Show with Lyman and Josh Sharpe.
Speaker: I heard it's pretty good.
Speaker: It gets pretty in-depth on some stuff and some stuff they can't talk about at all.
Speaker: So I'm looking forward to hearing that.
Speaker: I bet it's going to be great.
Speaker: The thing is, the information that was unveiled to us since the slideshow was Lyman Sheets and Josh Sharp was contracted out to do the rules.
Speaker: We do know that there is new, I don't know if I want to say new artwork, but artists have been brought in to revise the artwork.
Speaker: Yeah, they revised it, yeah.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And then the rumor is there's not going to be a classic edition like there was with the Medieval Madness, with the Monster Bash, and Attack from Mars.
Speaker: They're automatically, the base one, it's going to be the special edition, which is the one with the upgraded LED display.
Speaker: And then they'll have the limited edition, which will be obviously the limited edition, which will come with a topper.
Speaker: Supposedly the toppers interactive looks great.
Speaker: My other understanding- We haven't seen it, by the way.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: This is all-
Speaker: This has all been speculation, but rumor.
Speaker: Well, besides the Lyman sheet stuff and, and, uh, no, no, no, the Lyman cheese is confirmed.
Speaker: I'm just saying with the, uh, with the topper and everything, but that's, that's been the longstanding rumor that they're making sure that it's all set.
Speaker: And, uh, you can certainly say that Chicago gaming, they don't release a game until it is a hundred percent.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they haven't missed on any games.
Speaker: Well, and the other rumor is, so when Monster Bash, granted Monster Bash came out two years ago, three years ago, is that where we're at right now?
Speaker: About that, yeah.
Speaker: Holy crap.
Speaker: When it came out, the special edition was $7,500.
Speaker: Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker: And then the limited edition was $8,300.
Speaker: That was MSRP, if I remember correctly.
Speaker: I think that sounds about right.
Speaker: I know I got a limited edition and I paid $8,300.
Speaker: And so, but I don't know if there was, if that was MSRP or whatnot.
Speaker: Anywho, the base for the special edition, so that'd be the basic edition right now, I'm hearing is $8,000, which would be a $500 increase.
Speaker: It wouldn't shock me.
Speaker: I think it's predictable with the demand that is going on out there.
Speaker: If they can charge more for their product, they will.
Speaker: They lower prices when they're trying to move product.
Speaker: They don't have to lower prices right now.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I'm really looking forward to this.
Speaker: I'm interested to see what the new code does for it.
Speaker: The layout for Cactus Canyon, it's never been amazing for me.
Speaker: It always has fallen into that
Speaker: big bang bar category where it's rare.
Speaker: It's expensive because it's rare, not necessarily expensive because it's great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: In, in my limited knowledge of it.
Speaker: However,
Speaker: If well, now we know that Lyman is retooling and we suspected that for a long time.
Speaker: I think we even floated that as a speculation that who would you get to recode a 90s game?
Speaker: And Lyman is the guy you want to do that.
Speaker: So it'll be interesting to see how that actually takes it to the next level.
Speaker: But I do know two people who are interested in getting it and they're on that waiting list.
Speaker: And even one person selling is Indiana Jones, which he loves to get that game.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That's impressive.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's the good one.
Speaker: It's the pinball adventure.
Speaker: So, man, I got some time in on that a couple weeks ago.
Speaker: It's it is a good game.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: It's it's certainly a nostalgic game, but I think it's the nostalgic game that holds up.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Like, it's still fun.
Speaker: It's campy.
Speaker: It's not the same as a modern game.
Speaker: And when I say modern, I mean in the last 10 years.
Speaker: But it is still, you know, I will play it when I go over to his house.
Speaker: So what are you looking for with, are we not really looking for anything for Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: We're just kind of waiting to see what happens at Expo.
Speaker: I want to see what the topper is.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: That's really what, because I'm wondering how they're going to take it to the next level.
Speaker: Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Monster Bash.
Speaker: These were all well-proven, good shooting games.
Speaker: But then this one does not have the same sort of volume that the other ones did.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm curious to see how it's going to hold up when you have more availability on it.
Speaker: Because the designer on it is... I always have to look it up every time.
Speaker: But I believe that's their only game.
Speaker: Yeah, but they were with Williams for a while.
Speaker: I mean, they still help with stuff at Stern, too.
Speaker: Okay, so the game design is...
Speaker: Okay, I really am sorry about this.
Speaker: Matt Coriel and Tom Capara.
Speaker: Tom Capara, yeah.
Speaker: He's the gentleman that still works on Stern stuff.
Speaker: Which is fine, but how many other games have they designed?
Speaker: And he has worked in The Mandalorian.
Speaker: He's worked in House of Horrors.
Speaker: He's worked on Game of Thrones.
Speaker: But it's not, and that's Tom, by the way, that's not the primary designer.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so, you know, that's where I'm a little more cautious just because it doesn't have the same sort of, well, it's a, you know, it's a George Gomez design that didn't get the light of day.
Speaker: And so he's moved on, but George has a track record of designing great games.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And by the way, I don't mean that to be a slight, it's just more of a,
Speaker: there's there's less less games to compare it to i'll i'm excited to see it at expo i want to see what they've done with the code i'm just i'm excited it's um it's a good time to be in pinball that's definitely for sure yes absolutely okay one machine i want to talk about that i i'm just gonna be up front right now i was not impressed with the new pinball brothers queen that came out
Speaker: And I know it was just for show because no one can play it.
Speaker: It's just a display.
Speaker: You can look at it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's got the magic girl treatment at this point.
Speaker: Let's call it that.
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: See, I don't think that's true.
Speaker: I think what it looks like is magic girl looked really good.
Speaker: Well, no, that's what I'm saying is it's in the state of what Magic Girl was when it was produced.
Speaker: A box of lights.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: It's a box of lights.
Speaker: No, it's the artwork.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The artwork is... Okay.
Speaker: I'm sorry if I offend anyone or the artist.
Speaker: It is horrendous.
Speaker: It's bad.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: I wouldn't say horrendous, but what I will say is it felt like a Gottlieb.
Speaker: Like the color scheme and the layout is... It felt very...
Speaker: Um, and I, I, Hey, I hope I'm wrong.
Speaker: Every time I give these negative thoughts, I hope I'm wrong, but it didn't feel anything that would make you want to put a quarter in it.
Speaker: I don't want to put a quarter in it unless you want to hear Bohemian Rhapsody.
Speaker: Well, I want to play the game.
Speaker: The layout looks good.
Speaker: I'll give it that.
Speaker: The layout looks decent.
Speaker: It looks like something that can flip.
Speaker: It's definitely above other games that I've seen.
Speaker: But the artwork's just rough.
Speaker: Freddie Mercury's face is just so lopsided.
Speaker: I mean, this still has a long ways to go.
Speaker: Obviously, playing it and seeing the code and whatnot.
Speaker: If it's similar to Monster Bash, hey, I love Monster Bash code.
Speaker: It's a good code set.
Speaker: So that's where they're going with it.
Speaker: Again, I hope it's good and I hope the visual of it is not overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker: But, you know, that's also it's a prototype.
Speaker: So things can change and everybody has their own tastes on what works well.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: As a musician, there's just some stuff on here that just looks bad to me.
Speaker: Like the guitar upper play fill just looks bad.
Speaker: Like it doesn't look like a guitar.
Speaker: It just, I don't know.
Speaker: It just, the game itself doesn't look great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that you're, you're definitely selling off the queen name, uh, the playability, but,
Speaker: Well, and why go with basic?
Speaker: I get it's Queen's logo, but why not use the Queen's logo with the crown on it?
Speaker: Or there's other more iconic logos.
Speaker: But if you look at the side of this cabinet, it's just kind of an orange.
Speaker: It's like a yellow to orange scale crowd.
Speaker: with just Queen across it.
Speaker: It's just, it's not fantastic.
Speaker: Like, I don't know what the thought process was here.
Speaker: I don't make pinball machines.
Speaker: People, I've done podcasting for almost three years now on pinball.
Speaker: I've never worked in an industry that I've never worked behind the scenes.
Speaker: So I'm just, like I said, I'm just,
Speaker: I probably couldn't do a better pinball machine myself.
Speaker: Maybe I should take up the challenge.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But you're also not selling it.
Speaker: It's fair to, it's fair to, to give a critique on something when someone is putting it out there as a product.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, you don't have to be a car manufacturer to evaluate your car and whether or not you want to buy it.
Speaker: But I've seen homebrews that are better than looking than this thing.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, okay, remember the caveat.
Speaker: It always comes down to what the licensor wants.
Speaker: So with the image of the way it looks, you can talk about the flow, you can talk about the layout, but when you talk about what color scheme and even what caricatures or...
Speaker: or illustrations that all has to be approved by them.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I, I, I, I just, I give that a, a squint high when I see what is produced and say, well, I wouldn't have done that, but maybe they wouldn't have done that either.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that could be completely up to the licensor and really the licensor has to sign off on it.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: So, but I will say it looked pretty basic and it didn't look that interesting.
Speaker: That's, that is a great explanation.
Speaker: I will take that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So we will not see this at expo.
Speaker: Cause I know that, uh, I'm not, I'm not flying to England to the queen store.
Speaker: So, yes.
Speaker: And so my understanding was this is just the prototype, but we will be seeing more of it being produced here within the year.
Speaker: Well, not, not 2021, but 2022, May early 2023.
Speaker: So we'll see what happens there, but overall,
Speaker: Not a great first impression in my opinion.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Let's talk about this next note.
Speaker: Haggis is starting to get games out the door.
Speaker: I'm excited for this.
Speaker: Our boy Martin Robbins doing some code and they got the Celts out the doors and they're saying their fathoms next up to bat.
Speaker: They're starting to get over some of the hiccups and hurdles of manufacturing and whatnot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm hearing positive from everyone that's received their game so far.
Speaker: So what you're saying is a startup company with very limited manufacturing experience can still get a game out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting, huh?
Speaker: Yeah, weird, huh?
Speaker: Congratulations, especially with all the starting up a pinball company with all the supply shortages and especially with how locked down Australia is.
Speaker: That is a huge plus for them.
Speaker: And so that tells me they are doing something right.
Speaker: It renews faith in me.
Speaker: I didn't lose faith in Haggis, but it makes you nervous when you hear stuff like Deep Root and whatnot, being a startup company.
Speaker: And then not fulfilling promises and then falling by the wayside.
Speaker: I mean, it's happened time and time again in the pinball hobby industry.
Speaker: You know, look at Dutch, which they're starting to come back.
Speaker: You've got Highway.
Speaker: Granted, some of those licensings and rights have went to other companies, but still...
Speaker: It's refreshing to hear a startup company take responsibility for hiccups, for delays, and still then a week or two later showing, hey, we are actually producing product.
Speaker: This is what we're working on.
Speaker: Their product looks fantastic.
Speaker: I seriously cannot wait to see a haggis game at Expo to play it.
Speaker: I want to get my hands on one of these and see it.
Speaker: If they're worth it.
Speaker: I definitely want to see what their Fathom remake is, and I'm hoping they have one there.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Heck, I'm even excited to see Celts.
Speaker: I know a lot of people are like, it's just a single level game and whatnot, but hey, some of those games are fantastic.
Speaker: So it's Beatles, and I just bought it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So speaking of other companies that announced stuff and then never actually produced a dang thing.
Speaker: So let's talk about Bobby.
Speaker: Bobby.
Speaker: Oh, let's keep this under five minutes.
Speaker: So the SEC has been investigating him.
Speaker: And it sounds like even after they, it was well known that they were investigating him by Bobby.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: He still took more money and he still spent it.
Speaker: It sounds like all of it.
Speaker: So I want to pause you there.
Speaker: Cause I think,
Speaker: So what I think is, reading the article, the SEC had already concluded their investigation originally and was like they were in the, we're trying to bundle this up in a nice package with a bow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then that's when Bobby Mueller went for the pre-order money.
Speaker: So he already knew he was under investigation and went to the pinball community and was like, oh, by the way, we're doing pre-orders.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's what I think this is the money that they're talking about because he claimed it was like another $8 million.
Speaker: That would be...
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: The pre-order money.
Speaker: Bottom line, total dirt bag, total con artist, total narcissist.
Speaker: And we are better for not having him in the industry.
Speaker: And I hope we never hear from him ever again.
Speaker: And I feel sorry for everybody who has lost money with him and everybody who, even people, I don't understand it, but even people who gave him money on the hope that he's going to produce something.
Speaker: I still have sympathy for you.
Speaker: I, I,
Speaker: I think it was risky and I, I would not have made that move, but I, I understand if people feel that that was a calculated risk and they decided to take it, but he obviously played everybody as fools to facilitate his extravagant lifestyle and his two weddings and one divorce, which I still think is just unbelievable.
Speaker: But you know, good.
Speaker: Let's, uh, uh,
Speaker: Wipe, flush, move on.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I just want to thank Blueberry Johnson for all the information.
Speaker: He has been keeping up on this.
Speaker: I don't know if there's an employee that did work at DeepRoot and just – I don't know who this guy is.
Speaker: Either that or somebody who got involved or just has – I mean, he is on this.
Speaker: He or she, I guess.
Speaker: I don't know if Blueberry is a boy or a girl.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I guess when you think of Blueberry is a boy or a girl.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: But I just –
Speaker: I guess the hard part I know of just all this is we have the hobby itself or industry itself has taken a hit because of this whole situation.
Speaker: I don't think the actual industry at large has, but there's, there's some people that have been tied up in this that have really burned their reputation.
Speaker: And I feel bad for those.
Speaker: Well, and I think he used them as human shields.
Speaker: Um, I'm very,
Speaker: Great example.
Speaker: I mean, he and even Jeff Deals has talked about it.
Speaker: I mean, they hired Jeff to do some voices and they hired Steve Bowden.
Speaker: And it's still in my opinion that they hired Steve Bowden because he is well liked in the industry and everybody likes Steve.
Speaker: And so he leveraged Steve's good name to hide his sketchitude.
Speaker: And it's the same thing with Jeff.
Speaker: So he was able to pick his shots.
Speaker: I don't believe they were.
Speaker: I don't believe they were really involved in any of the behind the scenes things.
Speaker: I think they were contract workers, but that's.
Speaker: It's sad that they even are associated with his name because I know they would go back and probably not want to be associated at all with him either.
Speaker: Well, and even the article that came out with this week in pinball stating pretty much, you know, disassociating themselves from from Deep Root.
Speaker: I mean, that was a really good non non-biased, in my opinion.
Speaker: piece of media work that you could you could deal with um and obviously there's bias that creeps into any type of media i can't say that they were 100% unbiased but you know jeff had stated in his when he was leaving or putting twip on a hiatus or doing less with it one of the reasons was because of all of this yeah because he he was he was involved with robert yeah yeah well he kind of was he kind of was the mouthpiece i mean look at all the articles he did for deep root um
Speaker: I mean, he's, in my opinion, that's where a lot of the professionalism and the authenticity came from was because you're getting these articles of Deep Root and the factory walkthroughs and all the little tidbits were coming from that away.
Speaker: But again, he leveraged Jeff too.
Speaker: So again, this is what con artists do.
Speaker: They will throw everybody else in the water when the sharks are coming.
Speaker: Speaking of Patterson, let's go on another tangent.
Speaker: I want to throw this out here.
Speaker: We're hearing less and less from this week in pinball.
Speaker: We are hearing from some of the deep dives, which are still fantastic.
Speaker: Thanks, Patterson, for that.
Speaker: Do you think we still see this – not this week – the Twippies?
Speaker: Do you think we still see the awards?
Speaker: Or do you think that's too much of a financial drain on Patterson or maybe even too much of a time taker from Patterson that we don't see this anymore?
Speaker: Or is it –
Speaker: Or is it far enough off the ground that it kind of takes care of itself?
Speaker: You just click the button and go?
Speaker: No, I think it will change.
Speaker: So I think you'll see something different next year.
Speaker: It may or may not happen.
Speaker: If it happens, it's going to be in a different way.
Speaker: Um, and the Twippies are basically the people's choice awards, uh, for pinball.
Speaker: And, uh, you know, so if you, if you get enough and this is how, this is how award shows work, you try to campaign for votes and you try to get things going on.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I'm not sure in what venue it is because that was really part of his this week in pinball.
Speaker: That's what TWIP stands for.
Speaker: So is it possible that it could reinvent or be revamped?
Speaker: Maybe, but I'm, I'm holding out.
Speaker: I, I, I hope it is, but I don't, I don't know how he does that unless he continues this week in pinball.
Speaker: Dang it.
Speaker: And I had a foolproof plan to win the Twippy this year.
Speaker: Cause I know Scott, you said that you're only doing this for the awards now after winning the pinball award.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm, I'm doing it for a greatness and glory.
Speaker: That's all I'm doing it for.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Notariety.
Speaker: So, well, we'll, we wish Patterson the best.
Speaker: Um, hopefully we'll see what happens with Twippies and,
Speaker: I mean, we should be knowing soon.
Speaker: Pre-voting usually starts at the beginning of December.
Speaker: So that way he knows who to put on the list for beginning of January.
Speaker: I think it'll be different, but I actually wouldn't be surprised if there's a hiatus.
Speaker: I think that's what I think it's going to be a hiatus.
Speaker: Moving on.
Speaker: AP is releasing a new pinball machine at expo.
Speaker: That's the rumor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh, by time this is out, it probably already be unveiled because they're doing it at Jack bar.
Speaker: And, uh, what was the other location?
Speaker: There was another, uh, bang back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not official as of just yet, but what we're hearing is legends of Valhalla.
Speaker: You've probably already seen it by time.
Speaker: This comes out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh, it's, I'm really excited to play this.
Speaker: Uh, I have a friend who's, who was involved.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: with the development of the... Well, it's Tony, who was involved in the development of the homebrew.
Speaker: And it had enough following, and it's a good game.
Speaker: So I'm curious to see what they can do.
Speaker: And it is...
Speaker: It's theme-y enough, theme-adjacent, I guess, that you can do this without paying a licensing fee.
Speaker: So I think it's a good move for them.
Speaker: And there was enough goodwill for people who were able to play this homebrew.
Speaker: I think it would be a good game for American Pinball because they're not dealing in stern numbers.
Speaker: I just want to know why it took so long.
Speaker: Riot Pinball had this out and playing and flipping.
Speaker: with a Buffalo pinball showed up last year.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Uh, same with straight down the middle.
Speaker: So if this is American pinball's next game, why did it take a year?
Speaker: Like, I hope, I hope there's some kind of explanation there.
Speaker: Well, I, I think what it is, is there is a big difference between, uh, a homebrew and something that is ready for manufacturing.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: So you can do something that is a one-off that you can build yourself, uh,
Speaker: But there is a mass production component to things and making sure that's done right takes time.
Speaker: So, you know, you have to do all the, you know, the, the correct licensing and the testing on it.
Speaker: And so you can get certified.
Speaker: So there's all that that goes on, on with this.
Speaker: And so I, I'm not surprised it takes that long to make sure that it's done.
Speaker: I think about something like cactus Canyon or, you know, attack from Mars.
Speaker: I mean, all those games were done.
Speaker: And it still took Chicago gaming a while to pretty them up and release them.
Speaker: So that doesn't surprise me.
Speaker: I would rather someone take more time and get it right than just releasing it before it's due.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Good point.
Speaker: So I'm excited for this game, though.
Speaker: It looks fun.
Speaker: It looks like a great...
Speaker: Man, I don't want to insult it, but it doesn't have a lot of the bells and whistles that, you know, Godzilla would have or any machine from either JJP or Stern, you know, because they're going to have something that's really cool mech-wise in there.
Speaker: So this is not going to have that, but it will have good flow or it could have good flow, I guess.
Speaker: And if it has good code behind it, then I think that they will find a market for this.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: More pun balls, always good pinball.
Speaker: And then obviously we'll be able to play it here at expo.
Speaker: So an American pinball, I would argue that American pinball has a decent reputation.
Speaker: Like I don't know too many.
Speaker: I haven't heard of people buying American pinball machines and then saying, well, they're broken down all the time or they're unreliable.
Speaker: I think people haven't been, some designs haven't, well, I guess some themes really haven't connected with people, but I don't know of anybody who said, well, it was a terrible machine.
Speaker: They just said it wasn't for them.
Speaker: So I'm really curious to see.
Speaker: This is a good step for American Pinball.
Speaker: If you remember, Rob Burke, when we were talking to him back in April, holy crap, that was forever ago.
Speaker: We were talking about Expo.
Speaker: It was April or May.
Speaker: And he said by this time, he said at Expo, they'd be revealing four new games, at least four new games from four distributors.
Speaker: So Stern's release two, uh...
Speaker: CGCs with Cactus Canyon, American Pinball with Legends of Valhalla.
Speaker: There's four games already.
Speaker: Yeah, and I would say that it's close enough that you could say, even with Godzilla there, it'll be the Godzilla show.
Speaker: Every show has one game that seems to be featured, and Godzilla is going to rule this thing.
Speaker: So is it Godzilla or do you think because the other room and rumor right now, we're hearing all these rumors guns or not guns, Rosa, sorry.
Speaker: We're hearing that Jersey Jack pinball will be unveiling toy story at expo as well.
Speaker: And on top of that, they officially announced that they had hired another designer, Mark Sedan.
Speaker: I don't know if you've watched his stuff on Facebook or on YouTube.
Speaker: He did the Metroid homebrew, which looks fantastic.
Speaker: A man after my own heart.
Speaker: I love me some Metroid.
Speaker: And the other rumor going around is this is Pat Lawler's last official game with JJP, and he will go into retirement mode.
Speaker: Whether he stays in the background and helps as more like a Gomez, we don't know.
Speaker: But that is the other rumor floating around at this point.
Speaker: So what are your thoughts on that, Scott?
Speaker: Toy Story will come out.
Speaker: I don't think it'll be announced at Expo.
Speaker: I think they're still too far behind on Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: I actually just played a Guns N' Roses last night.
Speaker: I helped my friend unbox his Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: And we played it.
Speaker: And so they are just still getting through Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: Now, I know that flies in the face of what we talked about with Stern and there are timelines to the licenses.
Speaker: So is there is it possible that they could get pressure from the license to release it sooner than later?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: However, if you look at the track record of Stern versus the track record of JJP, this track record of Stern is three cornerstones and a bonus.
Speaker: So whether or not that's a premium or a home pin.
Speaker: So Stern basically has four options every year.
Speaker: JJP has one option every two years.
Speaker: And Guns N' Roses was announced last year and they seem to be ramping up with production.
Speaker: But I would be shocked if they actually released Toy Story just because there doesn't seem to be any buildup buzz.
Speaker: And do you want to go against all these other four games that are coming out?
Speaker: I think it would be bad, but it's Christmas is coming up though.
Speaker: And that's a good family pin.
Speaker: So it's the worst kept secret other than JJP was making Guns N' Roses is that they're making Toy Story.
Speaker: I would not shock me.
Speaker: I know it would shock you, but it would not shock me.
Speaker: And the reason being Expo is like their bread and butter for reveals.
Speaker: October 2020, we saw Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: It wasn't at Expo, but then again, Expo was virtual.
Speaker: So there is that.
Speaker: the expo before that, 2019, we saw Wonka.
Speaker: That's the year that we started podcasting.
Speaker: We did the show with Martin on that, on Head to Head.
Speaker: And the year before that in 2018 was Jersey Jack's Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker: It was the year before that.
Speaker: But I know they've been consistent for almost every year now.
Speaker: They've released a pinball machine at Expo.
Speaker: Okay, but the difference is on this is that the sales on Guns N' Roses are still strong.
Speaker: The sales on the other ones were tailing off.
Speaker: With pirates, they actually showed that too early when it wasn't ready.
Speaker: And it definitely affected their sales.
Speaker: Wonka didn't seem to be a huge seller.
Speaker: I know Dialed In didn't seem to be a huge seller either.
Speaker: And so their most produced pin up to this point has been Wizard of Oz.
Speaker: But I would anticipate that Guns N' Roses will surpass that.
Speaker: I still think that they're going to release.
Speaker: And the reason being is they're producing Wonkas right now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Their other line is producing a game that, like, if it was Guns N' Roses and sales are still super strong, they'd have both lines producing Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: And granted, that means you have to have all the parts and yada, yada, yada, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker: But I strongly feel like Toy Story is going to be shown at Expo.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So I'll bet you.
Speaker: If Toy Story is shown, then I will buy you dinner.
Speaker: If Toy Story is not shown, you buy me dinner.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Sounds like a plan.
Speaker: I can go with that.
Speaker: As Pat Lawler, it being his swan song or his last one, wouldn't surprise me at all.
Speaker: I mean, Pat's getting older and eventually you have to start looking at raising new designers.
Speaker: So that's what surprised me about Richie going over there too.
Speaker: For me, I would have been more confident in Richie announcing his retirement than actually that he was switching companies.
Speaker: So that surprised me.
Speaker: That's the thing.
Speaker: You've got four designers with a company that produces one game at most once a year.
Speaker: Things are going to be switching up.
Speaker: There's got to be a guarantee.
Speaker: There's no other logical explanation at this point.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It doesn't make financial sense to hire four people and to have them design a game every four years.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That doesn't work.
Speaker: Well, if that was the case, look at Richie.
Speaker: He wouldn't be making, he's 72.
Speaker: Is that what he said on our podcast?
Speaker: 72, 73?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That makes him 75, 76?
Speaker: Yeah, so he's going to make two more games?
Speaker: I mean, come on.
Speaker: So they obviously have designs to ramp up production.
Speaker: Um, not, not the best year to ramp up production, but they have designs to do it.
Speaker: I think this is my thought process.
Speaker: I think that it's, I'm going to go to a sports analogy here.
Speaker: Um, sometimes sports teams will hire the old man to have, have a mentor, great locker room presence.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: They're just someone that kind of helps carry the torch from the old guard to the new guard.
Speaker: I see it a lot in soccer.
Speaker: Yeah, you have to know how to do it.
Speaker: And so Pat and Steve obviously know how to make pinball machines.
Speaker: Obviously.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, I played Twilight Zone a couple weeks ago.
Speaker: I still love that game.
Speaker: It makes the nostalgia in me, but it blows Adam's family out of the water.
Speaker: I don't know why Adam's family...
Speaker: is so revered compared to twilight zones.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: You could, you could put it's chopping wood.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Adams was the first that it's the first actual mode based game.
Speaker: So that that's, that was the, the inflection point when everything changed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you could technically argue that fun house was the first mode based game.
Speaker: Oh, well, you technically had modes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Adam's family was the one that actually broke it though.
Speaker: Yeah, that made it to what it should be.
Speaker: But Twilight, man, I know it's woodchoppy.
Speaker: Don't send me hate mail on because of the faults of Twilight.
Speaker: But Twilight is a good game.
Speaker: When was the last time you saw magnets used as flippers?
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, um, um, uh, whatchamacallit, uh, Ghostbusters.
Speaker: And that didn't work out so well.
Speaker: The frame.
Speaker: Those, those were for the slings and that was a terrible idea.
Speaker: That much chaos right, right above the flipper is never a good idea.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you are right on Twilight Zone in that, um, you know, Josh Sharp is on record of saying that it's his love hate game because, you know, in a tournament mode, it's, it's just, um,
Speaker: it's very straightforward.
Speaker: You do the same thing every time and it's just choppy.
Speaker: But if you play it as in, you want to go into the zone, it's, it's challenging and fun.
Speaker: So, but if you're just going for points, yeah, it's not balanced.
Speaker: Well, I want to wrap this up with, uh, I want to do a quick thoughts on our last interview.
Speaker: Since we really didn't get to talk about, we kind of wrap things up and then we shut it down.
Speaker: What were your thoughts on L1?
Speaker: Have you had any responses?
Speaker: I know we've, we've had responses.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The best thing about Elwynn is that Keith is comfortable being Keith.
Speaker: And I would say that he's not dumb.
Speaker: He knows he's a great designer.
Speaker: He knows he's a great player.
Speaker: But it doesn't feel like he is stressed out.
Speaker: He still feels like he's having fun.
Speaker: And it sounds like he is, I mean, it's all, it's always work, but he is enjoying the process of it.
Speaker: So I, I love getting his perspective and it, it still seems like he's in that honeymoon phase of, I've never done all this stuff before.
Speaker: And so everything is new territory.
Speaker: It's not like Steve Ritchie, who's been designing, you know, games for 40 years.
Speaker: You know, Keith has four games under his belt and he, he just seems to be on such a, such an accelerated course that he could probably produce a, you know, a game, every other release because he, he is that he, he seems to be having fun and driven.
Speaker: Um, that was my take home on the interview.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: But I don't know.
Speaker: What was your thought?
Speaker: I thought it was a really good interview.
Speaker: There was a lot of insight there.
Speaker: I didn't realize that Avengers was supposed to be releasing now and Godzilla was supposed to be releasing then.
Speaker: I wonder what the switch up was for.
Speaker: And I don't know, it's, I'm always curious.
Speaker: I know that they'll never say.
Speaker: Or at least they're not allowed to say at this point.
Speaker: Well, and it could be anything from licensing approval.
Speaker: It could be part shortages.
Speaker: It could be developing that one mech.
Speaker: I mean, that was the problem with Pirates of the Caribbean, right?
Speaker: Is they had this really awesome and they pushed it so hard.
Speaker: We have this triple spinning disc.
Speaker: And then they, they decided to pull it out and it became a big trap door for the sales.
Speaker: Um, so when you have any sort of mech that takes a while to develop that it could, maybe it's something like that.
Speaker: Again, speculation, but, um, that, that was interesting that he was far enough ahead that they could do that though.
Speaker: That seems amazing to me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To that you could leapfrog yourself.
Speaker: when the time to develop is about 15 months.
Speaker: So that says how much energy he has right now in developing pinball machines.
Speaker: Well, and from my understanding, Godzilla wasn't even supposed to release now.
Speaker: We were supposed to see a different pinball machine at this point.
Speaker: So like you said, that time frame, that's short.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Like he said on the episode, it's like his first time he's had a break in the last 12 months because it seriously went from Avengers directly into Godzilla.
Speaker: And just his, I mean, I feel bad for poor Rick Nagel, man.
Speaker: That man is coding constantly.
Speaker: Well, I mean, yeah, there's a team, right?
Speaker: But it's a team that works well together.
Speaker: I mean, I was playing, you know, I was playing Jurassic Park tonight and that's such a great game.
Speaker: And Avengers, I love playing that game.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Um, you know, I'm still looking forward to getting my iron maiden.
Speaker: Um, you know, at some point when, uh, I get squeezed in, uh, because of all the shortages, but you know, they, they have been making some iron maiden premium.
Speaker: So hopefully I'm just in the queue sometime.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, and like I said, it's all about the team.
Speaker: I know that we focus so much on designers this day and age.
Speaker: It really is about the full team because code takes so much up on these pinball machines now.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And design is just kind of honestly a small aspect of the whole process now compared to code and artwork and integration and just adapting the theme perfectly with the layout.
Speaker: There's a lot of irons in the fire and I'm impressed.
Speaker: It's easy to make an okay game.
Speaker: It's hard to make a great game.
Speaker: And that has been proven over the last five years easily.
Speaker: There are some games who...
Speaker: it releases and it just doesn't connect with me.
Speaker: There are other games where there is that secret sauce that's in there.
Speaker: So I, I want to know though, um, people, uh, reach out to us.
Speaker: If you are going to expo, what are you looking forward to?
Speaker: And what were your thoughts on the interview, uh, with Elwin?
Speaker: What, what are your takeaway?
Speaker: But definitely what are you, what are you looking forward to at expo?
Speaker: We had to do, we did have a couple of comments.
Speaker: Um, someone wrote us like the morning after the Elwin interview, uh, Elwin on loser kids, everything is now right with the world.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was funny.
Speaker: I had to get, I smiled.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I did, I do apologize.
Speaker: We did get a couple of emails that I did not respond back to.
Speaker: I will get, I will get to you.
Speaker: I appreciate a couple handfuls of people that have reached out to us.
Speaker: So, um,
Speaker: And tomorrow I'm going to be mailing out some stuff with product shortages.
Speaker: We were planning on doing some special hats, but there's some product shortages.
Speaker: So we're seeing what we can do.
Speaker: I can't even get our baseball hat that we're used to getting.
Speaker: It's a product shortage, man.
Speaker: It even affects loser kid hats.
Speaker: So, you know, thanks, COVID.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks COVID.
Speaker: How did that go?
Speaker: Is that right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like the thanks Obama.
Speaker: Thanks Obama.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks COVID.
Speaker: No, it's fine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I did, I did get my booster though.
Speaker: So I'm triple, uh, I, I, I get like, like, uh, 5g with my phone.
Speaker: Like no problem.
Speaker: I have like three chips in my arm now.
Speaker: It's awesome.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: You're going to come to X ball, roided up, ready to go.
Speaker: I'll have to go get my booster before I head off this weekend or next week.
Speaker: So what was the other thing I wanted to?
Speaker: Oh, we got the most random email.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I'm going to bring this up because I'm not endorsing this movie at all.
Speaker: I don't know who made this movie.
Speaker: It was released last year.
Speaker: It's a pinball movie.
Speaker: It's called Bump Kowalski and the Ten Commandments.
Speaker: Very independent.
Speaker: It's on Amazon Prime.
Speaker: Go watch the trailer and tell me what you think.
Speaker: So at least tell us what they are in for when they click on that link.
Speaker: I don't even know what you're in for.
Speaker: Like, I watched it, and I still don't know if I fully understand it.
Speaker: So apparently it's about this...
Speaker: amazing pinball player from like 1979 and something about there's pinball commandments and they kind of tell you about them during the trailer i don't know the trailer's almost three minutes long it gives you a pretty good idea i haven't watched it it doesn't look like my kind of movie i'm not gonna lie i okay but it sounds interesting
Speaker: It looks like someone tried to go Big Lebowski pinball style.
Speaker: Yeah, probably.
Speaker: That's kind of the vibes I'm getting.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like I said, will someone watch it for me and tell me yay or nay?
Speaker: First, tell me what you're into.
Speaker: So if you're really into Big Lebowski and to Jackass, maybe it gives me an idea of what kind of movie this is.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I am...
Speaker: I have missed part of my bro card.
Speaker: I, I watched big Lebowski once and I never really understood why people love that show, but you know, who knows?
Speaker: I still haven't seen Forrest Gump either.
Speaker: Obviously you don't smoke a bunch of weed and drink a lot of white Russians.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Not yet.
Speaker: Not yet.
Speaker: So pee on rugs.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I just remember the bowling scene, dude.
Speaker: One of my favorite movies of all time and people, you either a haven't heard of this or it might not be your cup of tea.
Speaker: but grind.
Speaker: Did you ever watch grind back in 2000, like 2002, somewhere on there?
Speaker: Uh, nope.
Speaker: Oh, it's about these four, it's about these four skateboarders.
Speaker: They go cross country to like go compete in this giant competition.
Speaker: Hilarious.
Speaker: No, but I did see, uh, um, I watched on a plane, Detroit rock city, which was produced by Gene Simmons about four kids who were trying to go to a rush, or excuse me, a kiss concert.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: And yeah, that it,
Speaker: It's about as not awesome as you thought it was going to be.
Speaker: Yeah, Grind is definitely acquired taste.
Speaker: So it's probably the same with his Detroit Rock City or whatever.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So if you've watched Bump Kowalski, let us know so we don't have to watch it.
Speaker: Yeah, the producer or something reached out to us, asked if we'd talk about it.
Speaker: And I was just like...
Speaker: You know, I'm curious.
Speaker: I don't really have much time, but I'm curious.
Speaker: So I need someone to review it and say, yes, go watch it.
Speaker: Or no.
Speaker: Okay, come on.
Speaker: Or we're putting it in the Elvira game as one of the B movies, B or C movies.
Speaker: It may be, but I don't think they're going for, they are not going for Oscars with this thing.
Speaker: Well, and it definitely is independent.
Speaker: It is an indie movie.
Speaker: That should explain it right there.
Speaker: It is listed as a drama, though.
Speaker: But it's pinball, so I wanted to help somewhat draw attention.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm curious.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Now I kind of wish I would have bought that clone that was made of sandalwood, so that was pinball.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Oh, all right.
Speaker: Well, if you, if you guys end up going to expo, hit us up.
Speaker: We'll, we'll certainly be wearing our loser kid hats and probably some shirts walking around expo.
Speaker: You'll probably be hanging out together most of the time.
Speaker: So, so Scott, I was talking about this with my wife and I asked her opinion on it, but I want to know your opinion before I give you hers.
Speaker: How do you feel about us wearing our own merchandise?
Speaker: Is that weird or no?
Speaker: Okay, I don't think it's weird because I don't think we're big enough to make it weird.
Speaker: It's fun.
Speaker: And that's the easiest way for someone to identify us is if we're wearing a loser kid hat or a loser kid shirt.
Speaker: It would be weird if Tom Brady wore his jersey into like a sports bar.
Speaker: But we're not really Tom Brady.
Speaker: And so I don't think it's a big deal.
Speaker: It's probably the easiest way for people to identify us.
Speaker: If two dudes are walking around Pinball Expo and they both have loser kid hats on, it's probably easy way to come and say, hey, hey, I listened to you or whatever.
Speaker: Hey, what's up?
Speaker: You should totally, if Keith Elwin's wearing his Loser Kid hat for the interview, you should walk up to him.
Speaker: I love you on the Loser Kid Pinball podcast.
Speaker: That would be hilarious, but yeah.
Speaker: I wonder how many hats we will see this at Expo.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I've shipped out more of those than I can count.
Speaker: I'm bringing a few extra, and so you can always try to hit me up for a hat.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, I don't think it's a big deal because I don't think we're big enough to make it a big deal.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: So, so what'd your wife say?
Speaker: She's like, well, if you worked at Walmart, you'd wear a world.
Speaker: Well, she didn't say Walmart.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: It's your product.
Speaker: You know, Hey, I shop at Walmart.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: I'm not an anti Walmart.
Speaker: It's part of your products.
Speaker: It's part of your company.
Speaker: So yeah, I think it's a brand.
Speaker: So I'm totally fine with wearing it.
Speaker: So, so.
Speaker: If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: If you're looking for us on the show's socials, we are at loser kid pinball on Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, and Instagram.
Speaker: We appreciate your comments and responses on there and your likes.
Speaker: If you want to message us, honestly, Facebook is the easiest way to do it is through Messenger.
Speaker: Do our personal accounts.
Speaker: At least with me, for some odd reason, it doesn't like to come through on my phone for the Loser Kid account.
Speaker: I get it, but I usually tell you about it.
Speaker: So other than that, you got anything else for us, Scott, before we sign off?
Speaker: No, it's great.
Speaker: Again, if you're going to Expo, hit us up.
Speaker: We're not scheduled for anything, so we're going to be walking around and having a good time.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: See you in two weeks.
Speaker: See you next week.
Speaker: Something like that.
Speaker: Yeah, I'll see you next week.
Speaker: See you in Chicago.
Speaker: May I do some live streaming while we're at Expo so you can chat with us.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Later.
Speaker: Later.
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
