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Episode 166: Contenders or Pretenders?
31 Plays5 days ago
Alex and Corey discuss the current state of the Cleveland Cavaliers. We talk current injury status situation with Jarrett Allen and the anticipated season debut of Max Strus which seems imminent any day now. Then we discuss the last 3 games which saw the Cavs go 1-2. We spend some time specifically on the Boston Celtics loss as Corey watched the game live at Rocket Arena. We give our concerning opinions on the loss and missed opportunity to get a huge win against a quality opponent in a measuring stick game. We wrap with our overall takes on the Cavs chances in a playoff push that is rapidly approaching with just 17 games left in the regular season.
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Transcript
Cavs vs. Magic Game Analysis
00:00:13
Speaker
Hey Cavs fans, Alex, it's Corey, it's the Cavs Pick and Roll Podcast. How's it going, Corey? Oh, i'm doing I'm doing fantastic. How are you, Alex? Oh, I'm doing all right. We yeah got some Cavs games going on. I know that you went to one here recently. Yeah, yeah, we'll get into that.
00:00:32
Speaker
um Currently, the Cavs are down in Orlando battling the Magic League. who over the last couple of years now, we've built up a little bit of history with. it It was interesting, Alex, because um first half of the game during the broadcast, um they they talked about that series with the Magic and that game seven um in the second round that saw the Cavs down 17 in the fourth quarter and the Cavs came back and won it.
00:01:02
Speaker
And of course, I remember that that was a battle of a series. it went the distance. And man, I remember being down, but 17, don't remember being down that much. like First thing I said to my wife was, man, I want to go back and watch that game now.
00:01:16
Speaker
I want to see how we clawed out of a 17 point deficit, yeah which um according to to what they said on the broadcast, again, is the largest comeback deficit in a Game 7 playoff game.
00:01:31
Speaker
Pretty cool. Pretty interesting. Yeah, that is cool. Yeah, yeah. So Cavs battling the magic right now. on The fourth quarter is just getting going. The Cavs are down five points right now. So we'll keep an eye on that score. We'll see if that game wraps up by the time we're done or not.
Impact of Injuries and New Players
00:01:48
Speaker
But Alex, I did watch the first half of this game. The Magic are kind of in a unique scenario, um kind of like the Cavs were for much of the season, kind of underperforming.
00:01:59
Speaker
And as a result, they're kind of towards the bottom end of the playoff tier, trying to work their way out of that play in game. Right. So a victory tonight against the Cavs go a long way for them. And they've come out playing pretty aggressive tonight and really look to push the pace.
00:02:15
Speaker
um Desmond Bain is back. He wasn't it wasn't available the last time the Cavs played. Jalen Suggs is back. Franz Wagner is still out. but that This Magic team, Alex, has been kind of a feisty team, but but the Cavs have had their number over the last couple years now.
00:02:32
Speaker
They are. we've had some We've had some good battles with the Magic. They're ah they're such a scrappy, tough-nosed team. ah you know I'm always worried about players getting injured and when we play them because they are so tough, especially ah you know Franz Wagner, who isn't playing, but also Jalen Suggs.
00:02:50
Speaker
Even Ben Caros gets pretty scrappy out there. So just hope we, ah you know, we can coast the rest of the the season, stay healthy, win some games.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tonight would be a big, big road game. um And, um you know, the magic are kind of similar in the Cavs in the sense of the amount of injuries that they've had.
00:03:15
Speaker
But I feel like they're a team that will be a team that could potentially make a jump here in the next year or so. Right. The chips will start to fall their way. So magic aren't going away and don't know if the Cavs will run into him in this in this playoff, you know, stint that'll be coming up here just with the way the seating is going to work out. You never know.
00:03:36
Speaker
But ah yeah, Cavs battling the magic. Harden having himself a game at 24 points already. Mitchell at 19. And see if the Cavs can pull off a victory on the road here against a quality opponent, Alex.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, i'll have to finish watching it later tonight. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So some some things that have happened since the last time we we we chatted. Some injury updates real quick.
00:04:03
Speaker
Um, unfortunately Jared Allen, think went out the next game when we recorded and, and, and
Lineup Challenges and Optimizations
00:04:10
Speaker
has been out now for, for several games. That's a huge, um, disappointment. He he had such a fantastic February and was a big part of the calves beginning to turn the tide that they were because he was playing great. Even before Harden came in, he had that 40 point game.
00:04:28
Speaker
um he He was balling, um was starting to click, right? And that that's a huge loss. I haven't heard, have you heard, Alex, any kind of timeframe? Everything just seems to be day-to-day and we're just kind of getting daily updates instead of an actual timeframe.
00:04:44
Speaker
No, i haven't I haven't heard anything. it It really caught me by surprise when he was out injured. I didn't realize... that it had even happened. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we definitely don't want flashbacks of, of, of last year and having a scenario where, you know, he he tries to come back early or isn't a hundred percent. And then all of a sudden you miss some playoff games.
00:05:06
Speaker
You know, I think the calves, you know, they have a little bit of breathing room to where if he needs a little bit of time yet, give him the time. Let's let's get everybody healthy. Um, you know, when it matters, but it still sucks that, that Jay has been out here during yeah this stretch. Yeah. And I mean, heading into the the home stretch here, the regular season, I hate that, you know, Struis is still out. Now Jared Allen's out.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yeah. Just like trying to work guys in at the last minute, it feels like. ah You know, we just got Harden, Keon Ellis, Schroeder. Those guys are still like trying to.
00:05:41
Speaker
you know Figure out where they fit a little bit still and guys are trying to mesh and where they need to be on the court and you know who's vocal on defense and rotations and all these things. and It just feels like we're running out of time. There's still a lot to figure out.
00:05:56
Speaker
There is. Atkinson definitely has a challenge ahead of him. I think Struis is held with with high regard. um he'll He'll be a rotational player. But yeah, you don't have much time to figure out, well, well how much of the rotation is that? Especially as Ellis and Shooter have been able to...
00:06:16
Speaker
To play solid rotational minutes, I would say both of them have have been solid. I don't see Struis just all of a sudden cutting either one of those guys minutes in half. So where do those minutes come from for for for a guy like Struis will be the interesting part.
00:06:32
Speaker
Um, ah speaking of Struz though, I will say it does sound more encouraging every day. um he, he, he recently just got assigned to the charge to practice with them.
00:06:43
Speaker
There was report a day or two or over the weekend about he's, he's about 90% now, as far as being able to practice like on court drills and stuff like that. So, He's getting closer. It definitely feels like we're going to see him sometime in March.
00:06:58
Speaker
And ah I'm excited to see Struis. Let's see him add it to the rotation. And it should be a nice little boost, I'm hoping. That that seems odd to me. you don't you don't find that odd that they...
00:07:10
Speaker
kind of put him on the charge? No. I think that's that's standard. word like That's standard. He's not going When Garland's now injured, they never like move him to the charge to practice or Jared Allen or any other player. Why Struis? Because he missed like almost a whole season of basketball. It almost makes it feel like that you know like I don't know if they're even going to...
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, but he should be practicing with the main team if he's going to play with the main team. like What good does it do to to send him to the charge and practice with a bunch of players that aren't really going to get... I don't think it's going to be weeks and weeks. I think it's... Let's see what we're out a week from now. ah I'm willing to bet he's dressed a week from now and available.
00:07:49
Speaker
that's That's what I think is going to happen. so We'll see either way that that that's good news, right? Hopefully he can come back be himself. um it It was fun when Struis would get loose, man. He had some moments and that could be a nice addition to to a pretty stacked roster, right? We've talked about that if this team is healthy, it's a stacked roster. I don't I don't know where Atkinson where do you play Tyson Struis Ellis and shooter?
00:08:15
Speaker
And Merrill, where do you play all those guys, which are all basically coming off the bench, right? Yeah, well, it never hurts to have another three-point shooter, and that's what Struis is. Exactly. So we'll welcome him back with open arms and and just hope he can pick up where he where he left off, basically.
00:08:32
Speaker
Um, in other injury news, you know, in between our last episode and this episode, Mitchell had missed a couple games with the groin injury, missed four games, five games, somewhere like that. Obviously he is back hard and missed a game or two.
00:08:45
Speaker
um he's he, he's obviously back as well, which is good. And, uh, really the cows just need to get Allen and Struis back into the mix. And, uh, you know, Atkinson will have the last several weeks here to figure out what, what is his playoff rotation going to be?
00:09:00
Speaker
But it's getting exciting, Alex. I mean, there's 17 games left in this season, about a month left of basketball. kind of Kind of crazy how quickly this is wrapping up here.
00:09:11
Speaker
I'm glad you're excited. I'm getting nervous. Nervous. Especially after that Boston game. ah We're going to talk about that. Guys being out hurt. We're going to talk about it. like i want to see I want to see the five starters playing together, like at least the last dozen games. I mean, come on. When this team when this team is fully healthy,
00:09:29
Speaker
Who is your starting five, Alex? We've seen so many different variations starting That's what I'm saying. Who is the starting five? We don't even know. We don't even see them together yet. And we're running out regular season time. I saw a stat the other day, although this might have been a game or two now, so might be a little bit higher.
00:09:48
Speaker
But it was something like Mitchell, Harden, and Mobley have only played a total of three games together so far. i don't know I don't know how accurate that is. And like i said that might be a little bit higher now. And to be fair, this is like game 12 for Harden. So it's not like that's an entire season worth.
00:10:05
Speaker
But just puts into perspective how many different lineups this team has had. And I don't know.
Cavs vs. Celtics Insights
00:10:11
Speaker
I'm torn as well. That that three spot, that's that small forward spot will always be the...
00:10:17
Speaker
ah who Who do you stick in there? Do you stick in Wade for the size? Do you stick in Merrill for the shooting? Do you stick in Tyson for the two-way play? you know When Struis comes back, to i bet that'd be pretty bold to do something like that. But do you do you put Struis in there, right like which which was his former role before DeAndre Hunter took over slightly for a while?
00:10:38
Speaker
So it'll just be interesting. And um yeah, again, that's the challenge that the team's got to figure out now. I'll say i'll say I really like Tyson there. I do too. I'll tell you why, because that starting lineup without Tyson, like if you put Merrill there, you know, any almost anybody else you put there is sort of a Defensive liability or they are. There's a downside to them with Jalen Tyson. It's kind of like he's great on defense. He's a hustle player. He brings energy. he has okay offense. Like he's a three point shooter most of the time, but he can drive.
00:11:16
Speaker
um But at the same time, I i i like him and where he fits in that starting lineup, but I don't really like him when he's coming off the bench as much because I feel like he doesn't contribute as much with that second unit. Like he just doesn't mesh as well. And he doesn't bring – the Cavs just don't have enough firepower coming off the bench – When you got Harden and Mitchell both in the starting lineup, then usually they sit Mitchell and they run Harden in the second lineup, or at least that's what they have done the past couple of games.
00:11:48
Speaker
So then it's just Harden, Jalen Tyson, and, you know, either J.A. or Mobley and then Dean Wade. Yeah, I 110% agree. i love Sam Merrill. He busts his butt out there.
00:12:03
Speaker
ah His effort is through the roof, but but his his his athleticism is his athleticism. His size is his size. His speed is his speed. And going to talk about that because in that Boston game, he he he did start, and and guess what happened? He got matched up with bigger players, players shot right over top of him, so on and so forth.
00:12:24
Speaker
ah Dean Wade, who who has some size andin and is a better defensive player than Sam Merrill, has a night like tonight where he's played 18 minutes and and hasn't scored a single point on the offensive end and is currently a negative 10 in this game against Orlando.
00:12:40
Speaker
Tyson, to me, he was clicking so well with Mitchell before Harden came in. like he was... unofficially almost like the second option there for a little while.
00:12:51
Speaker
Right. um And I said this before in the last episode, I think when Harden came in, it seemed like he had to take a little bit of a step back. his His rotational minutes were changed. now Now he's coming off the bench a little bit. and And I agree. He doesn't have the same impact with that second unit.
00:13:07
Speaker
That being said, he doesn't need to be a scorer per se. If he's open for a three, he's going to shoot it, right? If he has an opportunity to drive, he's going to drive it. But what I like about Tyson and why I would start him is he's the most scrappiest guy we have.
00:13:22
Speaker
That could potentially be out of anybody in your starting five. You put Struis in there, Wade, or Merrill, I'm taking Tyson over any of those guys as far as going and guarding the other team's best player.
00:13:33
Speaker
which he's willing to do. and on top of it, he he he's not afraid to chirp. Man, he'll chirp with them. Boy, that Detroit game. That Detroit game. Cade Cunningham, man. He he was body bodying up Cade Cunningham, had his shoulder pressed into him, wouldn't leave him alone. That was great. I loved it. You you need that. You need that, especially in the playoffs. Even even a couple weeks before all that, with Dylan Brooks, who who who's notorious for playing that villain role. He was tripping with him. um he He's not afraid for for that challenge.
00:14:06
Speaker
And um he just takes it more seriously, i think, than anybody else would. And again, he is capable of doing things as well on the offensive end, especially with that much firepower. You got Mitchell, Harden, and Mobley out there.
00:14:20
Speaker
Tyson's going to be open for those threes in the corner. Harden's going to find him. right so That's what I'm hoping that happens. We'll see. i want to see Tyson to be able to be put in the best spot so he can continue to elevate because he's had a hell of a season, a breakout season for Tyson.
00:14:37
Speaker
And I just don't want to see him, you know, be hampered now. We need him in this playoff run. We need him. So it'll be interesting.
Game Atmosphere and Fan Experience
00:14:45
Speaker
Maybe Tyson should just go full villain. Yeah.
00:14:48
Speaker
yeah Dylan Brooks style. Dylan style. Just go in there and try to bully people. Him and Thomas Bryant. What can their tag team be? Oh, yeah, Thomas Bryant, too. Yeah, that's a good call-out. He kind of, yeah, he gets into people's face. He does not take long. He's an emotional dude, yeah. He's a very emotional dude. But, but again, that could be a good thing come playoff time.
00:15:10
Speaker
um You know, Thomas has its moments, but, you know, some knucklehead moments, but he can knock down a three ball. He can do some things. He can protect the rim, grab rebounds. you know, so on and so forth. So ah I'm nervous as well, but I'm also excited. I'm ready for real basketball to begin and and and to see what this team's truly going to look like.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that Celtics game put the fear God in me. Yeah. Oh, man. but that was ah That was a jolt to the system. That was a shock. before Before we get to that, let's quickly talk about the game that happened before after that, I should say, um which was the the following night, actually, second night of ah a back-to-back. So that made me a little bit nervous in itself. How how are the Cavs going to come out and react?
00:15:55
Speaker
Um, after that Celtics game, uh, this was a home game against the Philadelphia 76ers who were shorthanded, no Joel Embiid, no Maxie. Um, you know, and, and really Alex, this was a fun game.
00:16:07
Speaker
The Cavs took care of business against a team that what what was inferior and really was in control the, the, the entire game here. Yeah. I mean, we got to see Cavs legend, Andre Drummond, get a few minutes there. We did. He's looking large, man. He's looking large. Yeah, he is. He's He's a big boy, dude. He's a big guy. Actually, there was two former Cavs. Should have been a linebacker.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There was two former Cavs players, Cameron Payne. can pay they They even called that out, that he was on a ah two 10-day contract with the Cavs back in 2019, somewhere around there. Crazy how long ago that was. and He's kind of been of a journeyman, but he's he's still in the league doing his thing. Yeah.
00:16:51
Speaker
But yeah, no, this was a well-balanced scoring effort. The 76ers had no answer. Keon Ellis, best game, offensive game as a Cleveland Cavalier, knocked on four threes, finished with 19 points, too shy of his season season high.
00:17:08
Speaker
ah which was 21 points. Keon's been balling. He's having a solid night tonight as well. And just good balance scoring in this game. You had one, two, three, four, five, six players in in double-digit scoring, Alex. I mean, Cavs going to win a lot of ballgames if they can do that.
00:17:24
Speaker
Yeah, Keon Ellis, man, he's he's been playing great. He's just such an energy guy. He's so fast, so quick. He gets steals, interrupts passes. he He just seems like he's everywhere on the court.
00:17:36
Speaker
And to go along with that on the defensive end, he's got he's got a nice shot. He can get that three ball off real quick. He can drive. He can kick it. he's He's always moving when he doesn't have the ball, which is invaluable.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love to see more Keon Ellis. 26 minutes. He should be getting 26 minutes every night. Absolutely, and I'm excited to see him in in the playoffs as well. not Not necessarily from an offensive standpoint, but it feels like between between Ellis and and Tyson, I'll even throw Schroeder in there a little bit who could be pesky at times.
00:18:16
Speaker
Um, I feel like our defensive guards and even with Harden, with Harden just being a bigger body, he's not, he's not an elite defender, but he's a bigger body than the Colin Sexton's and the Darius Garland's and the undersized guards that we've historically had here for for the last several years to where, man, you know, ah ah pick and roll situation where where Tyson is guarding the ball handler and Keon Ellis switches on him, whoever that is.
00:18:45
Speaker
and Well, Keon's not going to make his life much more easier than what Tyson was and and vice versa. And if you do happen to beat him, you got Allen and Moby waiting for you. You know what mean? Like, has this team been elite defensively this year? No, they definitely have better years in the past, but I do feel with some of the pieces they brought in, heck, I'll even throw in Thomas Bryan out there as well.
00:19:06
Speaker
i i feel like we're going to be able to adjust better on the defensive end a playoff series, which is much different than than a regular season game. At least that's my hope. but That's my hope.
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah. And Keon's a big part of that for sure. Oh, I agree for sure. Yeah. Yeah, but this was a fun game to watch. um Everybody was was doing their thing out there. The 76ers didn't really have a chance in this game.
00:19:31
Speaker
So the Cavs took care of business and and and did what they were supposed to do, especially after getting kind of embarrassed on on national TV by the Boston Celtics.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, who Alex. I was worried that that Boston Celtics loss was so bad. i was worried that I was just going to spill over into the next game. I did too. I was like, man, are they going to arrest somebody? Are they just, is it just going spill over?
00:19:54
Speaker
and and so on and so forth. luck Luckily it didn't. And, uh, you know, this game against the magic, I don't know if it's going to go our way, Alex, it's cows are down about 10 with, uh, about halfway through the fourth quarter. So we'll see, but this, this Celtics game,
00:20:14
Speaker
um was a game i got to see in person alex yeah um got to take the family to the game spent about half of the kids college fund to go um so that was cool and i have submitted a letter asking for my money back because that was a
Cavs Wall of Honor and Future Inductees
00:20:29
Speaker
pretty poor showing of a basketball game by the cleveland cavaliers yeah i wouldn't blame you at all uh Turn the game on. I was super excited for this matchup.
00:20:40
Speaker
Cavs jumped out to a fast start. I mean, they got up, I don't know, by what, like 10 points? It 11-3 was the first time out of the game. Yeah, I was like, all right, Cavs, they're running on all cylinders. This is going to be a shootout. and This is going to be a great game. And then Celtics defense just kind of...
00:21:01
Speaker
kept running us off the three-point line. we couldn't we couldn't drive We couldn't get into the paint. like I just don't know what what went what went wrong, but the Celtics just turned it up on defense, and it just felt like we could never get anything going offensively.
00:21:16
Speaker
What was your kind of take in person? What was like the atmosphere in the crowd? How was it? Anxious. Excited, excited, then anxious. Waiting to erupt.
00:21:28
Speaker
Right. that That was kind of the flow of the game. I mean, the start of that game was you couldn't have asked for a better start. um But, you know, the game NBA game is very, very long. Right. And the Celtics are a good team.
00:21:41
Speaker
um And they they were quickly able to even things up. And by the end of that first quarter, it was still i think I think we were up a couple a bucket or two maybe. But it was an evenly matched game at that point.
00:21:54
Speaker
Where the Cavs got in trouble is is that second quarter. They could not buy a shot to save their lives. They took so many threes, could not hit it.
00:22:05
Speaker
What do they score? ah what What was it? 10 points. 10 points in the second quarter of an NBA basketball game. I i kid you not. um I forget exactly what time it was in the second quarter.
00:22:19
Speaker
But you know the the kids, yeah they they wanted food. so I go, i leave, i go get food. What was gone maybe six, seven minutes, maybe eight minutes tops of real time, okay, of real time.
00:22:33
Speaker
The Cavs hadn't scored a basket in that time. which is crazy. And I come back and they're they're they're chucking up. Thomas Bryant's chucking up. Everybody's chucking up threes. None of them are dropping. yeah And the Celtics kept scoring.
00:22:46
Speaker
And the Cavs got down by it by as large as 26 points in this game. And it was just too big of a deficit to to to overcome because the Celtics never really cooled down.
00:22:59
Speaker
And holy smokes, the fact that Jason Tatum played in this game, I was not prepared for that. He he played a game before this, but it was only announced several days you know before that game, maybe the but maybe the beginning of the week, second day of the week, Tuesday, somewhere around there, maybe even Wednesday.
00:23:20
Speaker
that breaking news comes out that Jason Tice or Jason Tatum's going to, going to play his first game was going to be against whoever it was, the game before ours. And I'm like, well, wonder if he'll play in Sunday. Cause maybe they're doing this minute restriction thing or, you know, of course, Jason Tatum plays in that game, scores 20 points and look likes to Jason Tatum that, that we're accustomed to seeing. And it's just like, yeah, of course. right He looked like he didn't miss a beat.
00:23:48
Speaker
He didn't miss a beat. and And not to pick on Sam, but you know i i feel like the Celtics lick their chops, lick their lips when they see the Cavs and when they see Sam Merrill getting switched out on there. on the Either Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum, yeah he he's not going to be able to... that That's a mismatch every time. Well, it used to be Merrill and
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00:24:10
Speaker
Garland. And Garland. It's just kind of just Merrill. And Schroeder. I mean, Schroeder...
00:24:15
Speaker
They shut him down. Normally Schroeder's quick enough. He can drive and do that little scoop layup that he He couldn't even get that going in this game. no Sam Merrill, yeah, one for seven from three and then o for five from three against the Sixers in the next game. So he's he's just been off.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's been he's been a little bit off, and that definitely hurt that you didn't get anything from him. the The other thing you didn't get is is bench scoring in this game. The Celtics had several players off the bench. Hauser with 15.
00:24:50
Speaker
ah ah Pritchard, my God, Pritchard. Listen, I got it. Pritchard's got our number. i don't know what it is. Pritchard gets excited when he sees the Cavs, man.
00:25:01
Speaker
he he He lights us up every time. And you know what? He's one of those players that I hate, but I respect the hell out of because he's almost like a Ty Jerome ah you know kind of player where he's just like things that he could do is just amazing.
00:25:14
Speaker
Drops 18 points. And then another guy, ah
NBA Scoring Feats Discussion
00:25:17
Speaker
Baylor Schermann. I can't. i don't know if I'm saying his name right. 16 points off the bench. three guys that have double-digit scoring, and you look at the Cavs, Schroeder gave you two, Porter gave you zero, Ellis gave you zero, Tyson gave you eight, Bryant gave you three.
00:25:35
Speaker
Didn't even have a single, like barely even added up to double digits, you know, of bench scoring. So that was another huge factor. And the the the the other big thing I'll call out then I'll pause here that kind of stood out to me too is is the Cavs left points at at the free throw line.
00:25:52
Speaker
as well. that James Harden, you know, miss miss miss missing free throws. and Everybody seemed to be missing. 15 for 21. And that doesn't sound terrible, but man, six points is six points.
00:26:05
Speaker
And could have went a long way if if they were making their free throws as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like you said, bench scoring killed us. Just nobody on the bench could do anything.
00:26:17
Speaker
It was Mobley, Harden, Mitchell were the only players that could get anything going offensively. Yeah, and the Cavs did come out the the second half. ah They came out well in the third quarter.
00:26:30
Speaker
i was wondering how they were going to come out. Were they going to come out flat and that lead was just going to continue to to be double digits? and you know um But every time the Cavs seemed to get close, and they did get close a couple times, they got to single digits,
00:26:45
Speaker
They had their opportunities. Celtics hit a three. Celtics forced a turnover. They just would do something to balloon that lead back up again, and the Cavs just couldn't couldn't quite recover and just just ran out of time.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah. ah The Cavs, I mean, they they did play better. They they played better in the second half. Yeah,
Podcast Wrap-up and Social Media Invitation
00:27:04
Speaker
but they could just never get close. They just never got back into it. They actually outscored the Celtics in both the third quarter and the fourth quarter. It just wasn't enough.
00:27:13
Speaker
It wasn't enough. Yeah, they outscored him, what, six in the fourth, three in the... So they outscored him by nine points. um But yeah, deficit was too too too big at that point.
00:27:24
Speaker
So, you know, losing an NBA game, regular season game, you could say whatever to that. But the problem with this game and where it's sticking in a lot of people's minds, and you kind of already alluded to this, was this was a big game. This is a kind of a measuring stick game.
00:27:42
Speaker
you know, against a team where credit to the Celtics, man, because they they lost their best player And we thought it was going to be a wash of it. We thought it was going to be like an Indiana Pacers season for them.
00:27:53
Speaker
Indiana Pacers, bottom of the league, bottom the East. Celtics, two seed pretty much the whole year. And don't get Jason Tatum back until now. They make a trade for Vukic, who didn't play in this game ah with the finger Allen didn't play either.
00:28:08
Speaker
But we also have to remember they have a pretty solid player in Vukic as well. And man, I thought this was going to be the game kind of like that Thunder game a week or two back as well, where it's like, man, it's just that measuring stick game to where yeah you want to believe that this team is a championship caliber team, but it's like, they're not proving it in these games where they have the opportunity to build back that confidence from a fan base perspective. And,
00:28:33
Speaker
if it was a close back and forth game and they just, they just lost it at the end. It's like, you know, somebody hits a game winner. Okay. But man, just to get, yeah. Ran off the court, you know, on, on, on, on your own home court, man, just doesn't give you the, the warm and the warm but warm and fuzzy feelings. No, I, yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. it It was a game that, like you said, you nailed it. It's a measuring stick.
00:28:56
Speaker
um You know, it was nice to, to get that wind in Detroit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ah Because I think Detroit, you know, if we play them in a seven game series, I feel like, yeah, we got a pretty good chance of winning that series.
00:29:10
Speaker
But if it's a seven game series against the Celtics after watching that game, I don't know if we'll get through the first four games. The Celtics sweep the season series against the Cavs and historically... And it's a mental thing too, It's a mental thing. yeah it's they've They've had our number just in general. ah we We haven't really been matched up with them in ah and a playoff series too many times here, but post-LeBron era, they've they've they've gotten the better of us um you know in regular season games and and whatever playoff matchups we've we've had. There might have been one year, I don't remember.
00:29:44
Speaker
that we were matched up with them since like acquiring Donovan Mitchell or whatever. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a little bit concerning. um But Hey, if the calves want to get there and wait make it out of the East, you're you're probably going to have to go through the Celtics. The Celtics to me are the only team I'm worried about.
00:30:02
Speaker
I respect the the Pistons for what they've done this year, but I feel like they're like last year's calves team. Right. We, we, we've had their number. Um, I, I feel good about a series with the Knicks. I think it'd be a tough series.
00:30:17
Speaker
I'm not worried about Toronto. i'm not worried about any of these first round matchups. And you and I were talking about this a little bit the other day. um A lot time left. lot can happen in these next 17 games as far as the seeding because the Cavs, Knicks, and Celtics are so close together, especially the Cavs and Knicks right now.
00:30:37
Speaker
um But we were talking about if if they were to finish in the four seed with the Pistons, Celtics, and Knicks ahead of them, That's almost a preference because the second round you would get Detroit instead of most likely the Celtics.
00:30:52
Speaker
Right. um I wish I could be more confident and say, I don't care who I play the second round, but man, can you imagine getting, getting paired up with the Celtics and then getting knocked out again in, in in round two, that'd be,
00:31:05
Speaker
they make for a not a good start to the off season. No, I don't want that. No, we don't want that. So, but be the way. Yeah. You got to figure out a way to beat the, beat the, beat the Celtics.
00:31:18
Speaker
And unfortunately the Cavs won't get another shot until, until they get another shot, which, you know, could potentially be in a playoff series. So it'll be interesting, Alex. It'll be interesting. It will be.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. Celtics have a tough team, man. Even Derek White didn't do much in this game, but he's he's pesky too. ah Like I said, Pritchard... And then Jalen Brown and Tatum, man, but I don't know what the, if you go down player by player, it almost be interesting to see like, who would you take or where is it a wash or where, where's the true advantage? Because, right you know, like a Harden and and Mitchell and a Tatum and and Brown, I could say that's a wash for the most part, right? Maybe maybe maybe a slight edge one way or another. Yeah.
00:32:03
Speaker
Allen and Vukic, we could debate about that. like but if you just go player by player, it's it's pretty evenly matched on paper. But like you said, it could be mental. It could just be the years of of experience in that team playing together and knowing how to win.
00:32:18
Speaker
That could be the deciding factor in a playoff series with with the Cavs team that still, let's be real, trying trying to get over the hump when it comes to the playoffs.
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:33
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see how how the season plays out. um It was fun going to the game, even though you know the Cavs lost. That obviously sucked.
00:32:45
Speaker
ah My youngest, in particularly, what was the most into it. She brought binoculars. She's sitting there waving. you know The towel that they handed out, which actually...
00:32:58
Speaker
I have here. Can you see that? What's not to like? with What's not to like? Oh, yeah, it was the the Nick Gilbert. Yeah. So it was the annual bow tie game, which which was which was nice. um A lot of people wearing bow ties and They had during timeouts, they had former Cavalier players, former Cleveland athletes.
00:33:25
Speaker
um Just do like ah of ah like talking about Nick Gilbert, like a video of Nick Gilbert, like their experience, what they remember about him, how he met him. There were some good ones. Kevin Love had a really good one.
00:33:37
Speaker
um Joe Hayden, former Cleveland Brown, had one. Miles Garrett had one. ah Richard Jefferson had one, which was cool because he was also calling the game, and then they cut to him on the...
00:33:49
Speaker
You know, the Jumbotron and everybody went crazy and cheered for him. ah MGK had one. no ge um So it was it was a lot of Nick Gilbert, you know, tribute stuff, which was pretty cool.
00:34:02
Speaker
And got to walk around the arena. i haven't been there in a little while. So that was fun. And one of the things I wanted to check out, Alex, because it had been a little while was was the Wall of Honor.
00:34:15
Speaker
um which I know you've seen it plenty of times. um Like I said, it's been a while since I've been there. And if you don't know, the Wall of Honor is just another place that the Cavs recognize both players, coaches, even players, out you know even even staff.
00:34:31
Speaker
um outside of you know the standard jersey retirements and stuff like that, which is pretty cool. i don't know if other teams do this or not. I'm assuming other teams have their own version of this. Yeah, I don't know.
00:34:42
Speaker
But it's just a way to recognize other personnel over the team's history that haven't had their number retired. And i took a bunch of pictures and stuff. But when I came home, I kind of had to look up online, like, well, who was all in it? Because it's one of those things where it's just like, you know, you're with your fam, you're just can't stand there for 30 minutes staring at the thing.
00:35:03
Speaker
I'm going to read off who's in it, Alex. And then I'm going to ask you a question or two. Oh, no. Yeah. I better pay attention. Better pay attention. So this started back in 2019 for the Cavs.
00:35:15
Speaker
um First, the players that are in the Wall of Honor. John Johnson, who played back in the early days, the 70s, with the Cavs.
00:35:26
Speaker
John Hot Rod Williams. Then we have World Be Free. Campy Russell, Terrell Brandon, Mike Mitchell, Jim Chones.
00:35:40
Speaker
um Then staff, which could be coaches and and stuff like that. Nick Maletti, Bill Fitch, Wayne Embry, Gordon Gunn, Lenny Wilkins, and Chuck Browski.
00:35:56
Speaker
ah Chuck Browski was a staff crew on the staff crew, like a statistic. one of the guys that tracks statistics started all the way back in 1970 and is still doing it today, which is pretty crazy.
00:36:09
Speaker
um Had some former head coaches in there and Bill Fitch and Lenny Wilkins. Gordon Gunn was an owner. Nick Mileni was the founder slash owner. And then Wayne Embry was the general manager during the late eighty s and 90s.
00:36:24
Speaker
So let's let's stick with players. oh I'm sorry, there are there are some more players too. um Everybody that has their jersey retired is also on the wall of of of ah honor.
00:36:34
Speaker
um So that's Bingo Smith, Big Z, Larry Nance, Mark Price, Austin Carr, Nate Thurman, an and Brad Doherty.
00:36:46
Speaker
So so a healthy amount of players, Alex, um you know, there are some some good names there. Yeah, for sure. i The last time they had an induction was in 2024.
00:36:57
Speaker
That's when Terrell Brandon finally got in, one is which I was really happy to see. I feel like they're due for another induction. i't know if they're doing every two years or so, but I feel like there's another induction coming in soon.
00:37:08
Speaker
And are there any players that come to mind for you that you can see being worthy or would make sense to to induct in the next round? a tough one.
00:37:26
Speaker
I could think of two. I could think of two that I'm like, I'll be surprised if they're not in it here hear her sooner than later. Two. Two players. I got two players for you.
00:37:38
Speaker
Vergeau. fair yeah Yeah, which I know is that one of your two, which I know you will protest outside of Rocket Arena your picket with your picket sign. Yeah, didn't he didn't even play. He didn't. He was hurt all the time. Never played a full season in his life.
00:37:54
Speaker
Anyway, he's lucky if you got him to play 40 games a season. um Mo Williams. I thought about Mo for a second. Had an all-star season.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But then I thought of a guy ahead of Mo. Tristan Thompson. Okay. Yeah. just just have yeahp Iron man. Iron man. The amount of games, part of the championship, you know, team played here afterwards.
00:38:18
Speaker
You know, I, he's not, he's not, he's not franchise leader in any category, but he's got to be in some top tens and stuff like that around rebounds and, and stuff like that. So I could see Tristan get it in there. I don't see him getting his number retired or anything like that.
00:38:34
Speaker
um And then it'll get interesting after, you know, you know, after some players retire here, I think we'll, we'll anticipate some things. You say that they'll, they'll, they'll end up being a Tristan Thompson statue outside.
00:38:46
Speaker
Jeez. Yeah. I don't know. If you ask him. Right, right, right, right, right. So yeah, had had had had fun. Checking out the Wall of Honor, going to the game. Wish it was a better game.
00:39:01
Speaker
We'll just have to write it off. Pay $40 for parking. Pay $40 for parking. They got to do something about that. so Yeah, yeah. Spend $40 on food for for a couple of pretzels and things like that. they do They do like a kid's pack, which is kind of nice. I don't know if you knew that or did that, but it's like ah a little box that comes with a drink.
00:39:22
Speaker
I want to say popcorn, hot dog and a little thing of candy. And it's like $9 or $8 or it's like actually something affordable. It's kind of like one of those box packs you get like movie theater. That would have been and that have been money better well spent because a pretzel alone was almost $9 and the thing wasn't it very big. You had a bottle of water, Gatorade or something. It's another $6 and it's like, oh, Lord. It definitely added up. It definitely added up.
00:39:51
Speaker
I see ah just talking about it's making you sit there here wiggling around sweating. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I was I was chatting with Alex a couple of weeks ago about, you know, we we kind of promised the the kid. This is actually like their big Christmas gift. Like, oh, we're going to go a Cavs game. We're to go see the Boston Celtics and all that stuff.
00:40:13
Speaker
And um man, just ticket prices are ticket prices. Right. And we didn't we didn't pull the trigger. And then it got to be like late February and I'm like, Alex, man, I i gotta find some tickets.
00:40:25
Speaker
And of course this is after the hardened trade happens and the tickets go up even more. i'm like, yeah man, I should' have bought thought should have bought those tickets back in December, man, because some of those tickets I was seeing,
00:40:37
Speaker
We've been sitting a lot closer. We're now several hundred dollars higher then than what they were then. So just crazy. um But hey, it it was fun to go and and and and see a game in person with the fam.
00:40:51
Speaker
So it it was it's all good at the end of the day. Just wish it wasn't against the Celtics who creamed us on national TV. all You never know. It could have been the most incredible game or not. Yeah, yeah exactly.
00:41:07
Speaker
So, Alex, let's ah let's do a check-in. feel like ah like that game should be getting close to wrapping up. ah calves Cavs lose to the Orlando Magic Game just ended couple minutes ago,
00:41:22
Speaker
ah game just ended a couple minutes ago so Unfortunately, they don't get a win there. Big win for for the Magic. and The Knicks are playing tonight. so The Cavs had an opportunity with a win and a Knicks loss to move into that three slot.
00:41:37
Speaker
Doesn't look like that's going to happen. The Cavs will remain in in the four slot. um Looking ahead, Alex, they got a pair of games up against the Dallas Mavericks. so If you're curious about Cooper Flagg,
00:41:48
Speaker
And how he looks, he'll get an opportunity to Cavs play them Friday on the road and then a matinee on Sunday. So hopefully the Cavs can bounce back and take care of business against the Max. Hopefully we'll get a Strucer or Jared Allen sighting here soon.
00:42:04
Speaker
That'd be nice. That'd be nice, actually. That'd be nice. Did you hear about the whole Bam Adebayo 83 points matchup? eighty three points ah ah did I did. did. I woke up to the news. I don't want to say debacle, but. Yeah, yeah. So I i learned, ah I woke up this morning to it. I'm like, you gotta be shitting me. What the is this? Yeah. You know, and it's just like, man, it's kind of crazy that,
00:42:29
Speaker
Now he's number two all time. Like to pass, to pass Kobe, number two, like is the dude even going to be in the hall of fame? but Maybe he will. I don't know. But it's just like, man, it's just not the guy you would have thought to do that. Right.
00:42:43
Speaker
And then as the day's going on and I'm paying attention a little bit more and kind of learning about how it happened. And then it's like, oh man, that's kind of, there's a lot of funny stuff going on. It's kind of, kind of weak sauce right there. Kind of weak sauce. Yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
Whatever. kind of kind of this I don't know. It's kind of a, you know, they were talking about on, on and NBA radio all day. i was listening to it and they were like, you know, people remember, you know, when, when the record was set, you know, a hundred points was scored and,
00:43:16
Speaker
Like, are you going to remember where you were at, you know, when Bam Adebayo dropped 83? I think I was like i was probably asleep. I was probably asleep, to be honest with you. I was driving through a tornado on the way to the Apple store Parker Park. right Right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's just, it's crazy.
00:43:34
Speaker
And what do you shoot? 30-something free throws and just, man, just... kind of lame. um It is what it is. He's in the record books, but yeah. Yeah, man.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah. I saw it. It's Wilt Chamberlain, me and Kobe. That quote. And then the picture of him with the towel on his head holding the sign with the points, the 83 points on it. Give me a break. It was 83, right? It was 83. Yeah.
00:44:02
Speaker
So they, they, at some point I saw some, some graphic where they were showing like the top seven i'll you know, it's wilt, it's bam, it's Kobe. Then it drops down to the seventies.
00:44:14
Speaker
ah Mitchell should be in there with his 71. I don't know if he made that picture or not, but he should be right in there. Right. But was kind of crazy to me. I was thinking about, was like, man, It's kind of crazy that LeBron never got to that 70-point mark.
00:44:30
Speaker
I know he's had a couple 60-point games. I don't know exactly what his highest game ever was, but it is kind of crazy that LeBron never made a run at it or or ever got to like the 70-point mark. Yeah.
00:44:45
Speaker
but it is what it is man history made but yeah nobody's gonna remember or even really care yeah I mean he did break LeBron's Miami Heat I saw that point record I saw that yeah whatever man Yeah. not to Not to take anything away from the guy. It's ah it's a huge achievement, but I don't know. It is.
00:45:09
Speaker
Yeah. just the way Just the way it happened and just the guy that did it. It's like, don't know. It's like J.R. Smith going out there, like doing that. Like love J.R., right? But it's like J.R. J.R.
00:45:21
Speaker
should not be the number two guy all time. Let it fly. You know, let it let it fly. If anybody could do it, though, it would be J.R. Oh, man. all right, let's go ahead. Let's wrap up this episode of the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast. want to thank Cavs fans, as always, for tuning in and listening. And Alex, let them know where they can follow us and connect with us.
00:45:42
Speaker
Follow us on x at Cavs Pick and Roll. Shoot us an email, cavspickandroll at gmail.com. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr. you're listening to this, watch this episode on YouTube.
00:45:54
Speaker
Leave us a like, subscribe, rating, review. We'd appreciate it All right, Cavs fans, there it is. We will talk to you again soon. Peace out, Cavs fans.