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Episode 173: Off-Season Shake Up
2 Plays3 seconds ago
Alex and Corey discuss off-season roster moves so far by the Cavs and around the NBA. We also talk about the Cavs 2016 Championship reunion.
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Transcript
Introduction & 10-Year Anniversary
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey Cavs fans, welcome to another episode of the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast. The podcast for diehard Cavs fans, along with LBJ wannabes. Alex rocking his LeBron James jersey. Let's go. going to talk all about that. talk all about that.
00:00:35
Speaker
Man, Alex, it has been a little bit, right? We took a little bit of a hiatus once the Cavs season ended. a whole bunch to get into, but we've got to start this episode off. With the milestone that has just passed in Cavaliers history, the 10-year anniversary of the Cleveland Cavaliers winning their first and so far only championship in franchise history, Alex.
Reflecting on the 2016 Championship Team
00:00:58
Speaker
How has it been 10 years?
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, I still have the that 2016 card poster that they gave out with like the roster on it. And I was looking at it today and just remembering all of the characters or players that are on that team. It's pretty crazy.
00:01:19
Speaker
Williams. Yeah, yeah. lot of people forget that Mo was there. Everybody thinks about LeBron and and Kyrie and Kevin Love, of course, Tristan and JR. But I just heard going down that list, you're like, oh, shit, Shasta Khan? Yeah.
00:01:33
Speaker
Mo Williams? Yeah. James Jones, James Jones, Dante Jones. Yeah, man. But 10 years, it's kind of crazy that it's been that long. And on NBA TV, of course, they played game seven.
00:01:48
Speaker
um And it was fun watching through that a bit, a little bit. And just seeing all the clips, all the love, seeing Fred and Austin calling that at the end of the game.
Reunion Event Highlights
00:01:59
Speaker
And that was both sad and happy. to You know, good to see.
00:02:02
Speaker
um it just man it felt awesome seeing and everybody just reminiscing about that the calves of course threw an event for people to come on down and and they were watching you know game seven live and they had a whole bunch of things going on down there um so that's pretty cool that the calves did that but alex man 10 years what do you think what what what what comes to mind when you think about that do you still get chills to this day Yeah, yeah, it's awesome to think back about.
00:02:30
Speaker
And I was watching some of the videos, you know, that they were posting ah crazy videos of the reunion. And there was a interview with, think it was Richard Jefferson, where he was, where they asked him that same question, you know, what, what's something that sticks out to you about that day. And he said that,
00:02:50
Speaker
You know, that day was actually Father's Day. It was. yeah And a lot of, you know, he still gets comments to this day about how great it was to have that experience of, you know, people come to him and say, i i was watching that game with my dad and just how special that moment was for Cleveland to win that championship on Father's Day.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And so many clips have come out and and you just kind of mentioned it. um There was a 10 year reunion, which was pretty cool to see that that got organized with some some key players from that team like LeBron, like Kevin Love, like RJ Channing Frye. Shump was there.
Cavs' Players Bonding
00:03:29
Speaker
J.R. Smith was there. um They did golfing, they did drinking, they did eating, they did partying. And that was also pretty cool to see Alex, just to see them still have that bond and be tight like that. You don't really see that or hear about that at least very often. Like when's the last time you've heard of some sort of reunion of of some championship team from you know even a half a decade ago of players getting together and and just kicking
Deli's Unique Presence at Reunion
00:03:57
Speaker
it.
00:03:57
Speaker
so It's pretty cool. It feels it definitely feels like they're still you know in touch. right and and that We always hear about how they have a text chain and all that kind of stuff, but it was just cool to actually see it.
00:04:09
Speaker
and Some of those clips were just freaking gold, Alex. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of hilarious stuff playing golf and drinking, you know, glasses of wine and they're just cracking jokes and rolling. And yet there's a lot of funny stuff, lot of lot of good content.
00:04:29
Speaker
I was so happy in one of the videos because at first he wasn't in them. But then a little bit later, you see ah a video with Deli in it and Deli just still looks like Deli,
Absent Players & Speculations
00:04:40
Speaker
just kind of so out of place. And he's he's smiling. He's having a good time and everything. And Oh, man, I was so happy when I when I saw him there.
00:04:49
Speaker
And we were just talking before we started recording about how how people were saying how how like ripped he looked like players like Channing and stuff like that. People might not know some Cavs fans might not know that Dele still plays. He just doesn't play in the NBA.
00:05:03
Speaker
He plays over in the Australian League, the NB, NBL, I believe it is National Basketball League. And he's well known over there. So he's doing his thing over there. He's getting ready for the season. And it was kind of funny how, you know Channing Frye, who definitely has moved on to dad bod at this point, is like, damn, Deli, you're ripped over there. Like, that's pretty cool to see them kind of giving each other a hard time. So Kevin Love had a picture of little Kev.
00:05:28
Speaker
Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Tony Bahama model that had somewhat looked like him at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And it did start off a little bit rocky because it was like, oh no, Kyrie ghosted us and all that stuff. Right. That was kind of going around social media. And then, you know, you find out a day or two later that he was just, you know, wherever he's at in the world. And he at least acknowledged and said, I'm going catch up with those guys when I get back and all that stuff. So, um, pretty cool to see that, you know, um, again, you don't see that very often when other there are championship teams, but not everybody
LeBron's Possible Return to Cleveland
00:06:04
Speaker
was there, Alex. Yeah.
00:06:06
Speaker
Not everybody was there. Who who who who was not there? Mozgov wasn't there. Do you think he really said that? Do you think he really said that or just as some troll account just start that, you think? I don't know. it's like he's not on He's not on social media, is he? Mozgov?
00:06:22
Speaker
I don't know. haven't i won't i don't know if I follow him. Part of me part of me thinking it's some some troll account. So basically ah something came out a couple of days later, quote quote unquote, from Mozgov. Put on the hat. There you go. There we go. It's got the Mozgov winter hat on, um even though it's like 90 something degrees.
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's like 95 But he's like, I wasn't invited to the reunion. I would have liked to have gone. And it's just a sad picture of Mozgov, you know, holding the holding the the championship trophy. I'll wear this for Mozgov.
00:06:58
Speaker
I know better, Alex. It's probably fake, but I want to believe that it's truly him saying that. ah it probably it probably was. i Who knows? Who knows? But yeah, Mozgov, man.
00:07:13
Speaker
So 10-year anniversary of the Cavs winning the championship. One of the most historic championships in NBA franchise history. Will probably never be topped in our lifetime. And pretty cool to see the crew getting together and kicking it.
00:07:28
Speaker
And of course, you know, we're
Draft Concerns & Optimism
00:07:30
Speaker
going get into all this. That leads to a lot of speculation. LeBron's with the old teammates. He's in town. He's at Akron. He's... you know posting stuff on Instagram, driving around Akron and stuff like that. and um But it would be a little while until the news got juicy. So let's before we get to all that, let's talk about what else has kind of happened since the end of the season.
00:07:53
Speaker
The NBA draft did happen, Alex. The Cavs did not make any kind of trades up. They actually made a trade back. Out of the first round, they had the 29th pick to save a little bit of cash. They moved back a couple spots to pick number 34, picked up a future second rounder and made a draft selection.
00:08:14
Speaker
They selected Malik Thomas guard six, three out of Arkansas. Average 15 points, three, three rebounds, couple assists and shot 41% from three point range.
00:08:31
Speaker
Alex, we both have admitted since we started this podcast, neither one of us really call follow college basketball, right? So we're going sit here and pretend like we can give you a scouting report on him.
00:08:42
Speaker
But I will admit when the pick was announced, I was a little disappointed that it was another guard as we are very guard heavy and a small guard on top of that.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, another six foot three guard that I don't know that how we would use and... I don't know. Yeah, I just wish they would have went with like a wing or a big or. Yes, same, same. Some people seem to warm up after, you know, kind of you know, um I don't know, researching or watching some clips or whatever. Highlight clips always make somebody look outstanding, right?
00:09:16
Speaker
um He is supposed to be a pretty good shooter. We'll always welcome some shooters. And yeah, we're just guard heavy. And I don't know where everybody's going to fit or where he fits in the rotation. um if he even will be part of the rotation at some point.
00:09:29
Speaker
the The one thing I will say, though, Alex, the Cavs have had a pretty good track record of quote unquote finding the diamonds in the rough. Um, uh, you know, finding players that are drafted late or potentially even undrafted like Dele, like Dean Wade, um, like Jalen Tyson, who was, you know, you know, a later pick in the first round and, and they've had some good luck over the years. So we'll see what comes of, of, of Thomas and, we'll get to see him not too long from now with, with the summer league games, you know, starting here in
Offseason Strategy & Harden Discussions
00:10:01
Speaker
July. So we'll get our first look at them.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I read that the Cavs had Thomas ah or not Thomas Malik, Malik Thomas high on their board and they wanted him and they knew that they could trade back and still get him and still save, ah you know, one point five million.
00:10:23
Speaker
So they made the trade with the Kings and they got their guy. So let's see how he does. Like you said, they're guard heavy and they just picked up what the option on Craig Porter jr. did to pick up the option on Craig Porter jr. So yeah, we still have Tyrese Proctor under contract for two more seasons or three more seasons.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Plenty of backup, you know, small guards. Right. Right. the I think the hope is, is one of those guys blossom, kind of find a way to be in your rotation. Cause, cause between Proctor and Porter jr. Last year, sure.
00:10:59
Speaker
sure They played at times when there was injuries, but none of them really broke through to be part of the rotation. Yeah. right? Proctor barely played. He did. yeah he he He did early in the season. He was playing a bit, but that, that fizzled out. And especially after we traded for James Harden, like you didn't see him in unless it was garbage time.
00:11:17
Speaker
But again, second round pick. I mean, the expectations can't be that high, but it's just, we have obvious needs. So again, I think everybody was clamoring for a big, or like you said, a wing and just wasn't kind of expecting another guard to be added to to the roster, you know?
00:11:34
Speaker
So we'll see. But the Cavs did make a selection. NBA draft happened um and free agency opened up. And actually trade season was already there at that point.
00:11:46
Speaker
And a couple of trades ah had had happened at that point. But before we get into non-Cavs stuff, I want to quickly just go through what the Cavs have done so far. And then we'll react to some other things that are going on around the league. This has been a pretty busy start to the off season so far, Alex, with a number of transactions that have happened so far.
00:12:07
Speaker
Free agency just officially opened up four hours ago. We're recording this on on Tuesday night. so So signings can officially become official. right But a ton of verbal things happened prior. ah Probably the biggest one for the Cavs so far was James Harden declining his his player option.
00:12:27
Speaker
And this was expected. right He was owed like $42 million dollars contract. he declined it um which is going to allow the Cavs to have some flexibility in what they can do this offseason.
00:12:40
Speaker
And they're currently negotiating for a lower contract. And the latest I heard was Harden is also okay with waiting to see what kind of moves they can make before also re-signing that contract.
00:12:55
Speaker
So let's quickly talk about James Harden, Alex. Definitely a lot of mixed feelings about him. Unfortunately, after that way that his playoff kind of run ended with the Cavs, I think a lot of Cavs fans were were, you know,
00:13:10
Speaker
Not excited when we traded for him and then we saw him play in the regular season a bit, got excited because of the style of ball he was playing, especially with the bigs. Right. And then the playoffs came and it was just kind of a rocky road. And then the Knicks series came and it was just like, Holy crap.
00:13:25
Speaker
We cannot bring this guy back. Right. So the, the, the calves social media fan base is very divided on Harden, but he is coming back, Alex. So,
00:13:36
Speaker
What's your thoughts on James Harden? He is going to 37. Most likely the Cavs are given a multi-year deal to send him off into the sunset as far as, you know, finishing out his career.
00:13:47
Speaker
How do you feel about that? Are you okay about that? Do you hate it? What's your thoughts? um I'm okay with it. I think, you know, he joined the team so late in the season that they didn't have much time to gel or mesh and,
00:14:02
Speaker
You know, I think that they'll be a lot better after after he has a full regular season with the team next, this upcoming year. um Yeah, i'm I'm not worried at all. I think James Harden's a great player.
00:14:16
Speaker
He's a hell of a playmaker. He fits well on the team. i Yeah, i you know, I think last season was a small sample size and Yeah, i'm I'm not worried at all. I think it'll be great.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how things look with some more time with Harden and this group. Again, i was a little bit hesitant, like most Cavs fans were, when they traded for him because he just has that stigma about him, that reputation about him, just like Westbrook does, just like SGA does now as far as the style of play.
00:14:50
Speaker
But then, man, and we didn't even have both. If you remember, we didn't even have both of our bigs when he first got here. I forget if it was Allen that was hurt or if it was Mobley that was hurt. One of them was hurt. One of them was available.
00:15:00
Speaker
And again, they just clicked, right? Pick and roll, unstoppable. And I was like, man, this is great. And we talked about that on the podcast about how great he he had been in the short time he'd been here.
00:15:12
Speaker
My beef is when the playoffs come, something changed. I don't know if it was Atkinson or if it was Harden, but it was like every time he touched the ball, all the other four guys and the Cavs players cleared out instead of creating activity and pick and rolls and all that stuff like we saw in the regular season. So I hope that we get back to that with James Harden because I think that's just what's going to eat defenses alive. They're going to not be able to stop Evan Mobley and James Harden in a pick and roll.
00:15:40
Speaker
You know what i mean? So that's the kind of style of basketball I want to see him playing if he's going to be here for for the foreseeable future. um But we'll see what that number comes out to be. It sounds like he's going to be in the $30 million dollars range at minimum. And again, ultimately, it's going to help the Cavs by this happening and then bringing him back. gives the Cavs better flexibility.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of moves yet to be made for the Cavs. You know, we don't know who's even going to be on this roster yet. Yeah. So they'll be pretty picky and choosy about who they kind of build around Mitchell and Harden together, I think. I'm hoping so because they need to they're running out of time, to be honest with you, right? Donovan Mitchell, um you know he can he can re-up this summer, ah most likely won't.
00:16:31
Speaker
would have to wait till next summer. And then you had the potential to lose them for nothing. So, um, you know, the Cavs need to figure it out and, and, and this is the season to figure it out. And this off
Roster Changes & Defensive Needs
00:16:42
Speaker
season is a, is a huge part of that. Right.
00:16:45
Speaker
Um, so you kind of already mentioned it a couple of smaller transactions here. Um, they did, ah you know, Craig Porter jr. Sticking around, um, um, You know, i like Craig. He's had his moments. He's been able to take advantage of opportunities as they came, especially two years ago when Garland was hurt.
00:17:04
Speaker
He kind of started to break out, kind of similar to what Tomlin did this year and and Tyson did this year when they had some opportunities with injuries. So I don't hate that Craig Porter Jr. is coming back. Just again, we'' we're log jammed, especially with Thomas now being added there in that backup group. And you still have Schroeder on this team, but we'll we'll get into that.
00:17:23
Speaker
I know this next one has Alex excited. The Cleveland Cavaliers bring back Thomas Bryant on a one-year contract for $6.2 million. um I'm good with that.
00:17:36
Speaker
I'm good with it. Here's my only problem, though. Here's my only problem. We need a backup big that's going to actually play in the playoffs. Brian didn't play in the playoffs. Therefore, you know, you didn't have a big to just come should have played in the playoffs. He should have.
00:17:52
Speaker
He should have. He was injured. He was injured. Put him in. Let him bang. Bring around. some elbows. Yes. Yes. Let him beat up their bigs and then pull him out.
00:18:04
Speaker
Right. Right. But Thomas Bryan comes back on a one-year deal. i'm not mad at that. The Cavs do, however, and this just happened right right a little bit ago, Cavs are, however, losing Keon Ellis, who signs a two-year deal, $18 million dollars with the Brooklyn Nets.
00:18:23
Speaker
Not totally shocking. We've been hearing for a little while that it was going to be hard to retain both Ellis and Wade. um and or both of them potentially so Keon is the first one to go um man he was another guy that didn't get consistent minutes in the playoffs thought he might have been able to help as far as from a defensive perspective it's really why the Cavs brought him it seemed pretty high on him didn't they yeah I mean I was gonna say the same exact thing it's He just didn't get minutes, and I think he should have. you know But he also both him and Schroeder kind of joined the team halfway through the season, so they joined kind of late.
00:19:03
Speaker
And again, it's you know it's all about building chemistry with the rest of the team. And yeah, he just didn't get enough minutes. He didn't get enough opportunity, I didn't think. When he was in the game, I thought he made an impact. He was a great defender.
00:19:17
Speaker
You know, when I look at the roster now and how it's constructed, I think about who are our perimeter defenders. You know, you had Keon Ellis, Struis.
00:19:29
Speaker
Tyson. dean Dean Wade, Tyson. That's about it. That's about it. Keon Ellis is gone. do yeah Dean Wade might be gone. Correct. You know. Struis is being shopped, which we'll talk about, right? So, yeah, it's like if you start losing some of these bodies, okay, this is what we want, Cavs fans. Cavs fans want them to shake it up.
00:19:49
Speaker
Right. OK, well, some of these bodies are going to be going out the door. Who are you bringing in to replace them? And are they going to be able to give you more than what you lost? That's going to be the key thing here.
00:20:01
Speaker
And what I'm interested to see, I i do feel like they are going to basically run it back from a core four perspective. And I know that's going to piss off a lot of Cavs fans. But in reality, if they shake up and, you know, three to four guys, five guys from that second unit, that can also make a big impact as well.
00:20:20
Speaker
Right. So, um, again, i i would have liked to have seen Keon get some more opportunity, right. But, but he's out the door. That's fine. and and what are you going to replace him with?
00:20:32
Speaker
I also see a lot of people and it's funny. It's, it, it always looks this way in hindsight, right. But a lot of Cavs fans were saying we should have just kept on the Hunter. Yeah. The, yeah you know, Hunter could have been great as far as providing another offensive weapon in these series. And it's always easy to pick apart trades after they've kind of played out a bit.
00:20:49
Speaker
But in reality, you really didn't get much out of Schroeder and Ellis combined you know during this playoff run. and And now both of them most likely will be out the door because the Cavs are also shopping Schroeder, right? Yeah. you can't pass Hunter for nothing.
00:21:05
Speaker
No, I mean, i was never Schroeder fan, but i have to admit, I thought he played well for us. He, ah you know, last season in the playoffs, we struggled really bad to get the ball up the court. And Schroeder got the ball up the court for us. And not only that, but he was great at driving and getting those quick little layups and cutting through the defense, which we didn't have, which we we haven't had in a long time to have a guard that that is that quick.
00:21:34
Speaker
a point guard that's that quick. You know, we have Mitchell. Mitchell kind of does the same thing or similar things. But yeah, I thought Mitchell filled a ah gap that we had.
00:21:46
Speaker
And if we let him walk, I think we're going to be back to having that, not having that quick guard that can get to the whole So I don't know what they're going to do. Yeah, yeah, you mean Schroeder, yeah. He had some moments, again, in the regular season, and he had the one good game, i forget what series it was now, where he he basically helped the Cavs get to win that game, right? So but I just don't know if he did enough to to convince you know the organization to to keep him around to kind of be your backup big team.
00:22:20
Speaker
you know, long-term. And again, he has that stigma to him too. What is it? Was he played 12 teams in 13 years or whatever, 11 and 12, whatever it is. So, um, and all the rumor, a lot of the rumors around the calves, as far as trying to shed salary, uh, to, to, to add more wiggle room to do things, you know, you, you hear shooter's name right there as, as the number one candidate with Strews right behind it. So,
00:22:43
Speaker
We'll see what happens there. But Keon is gone. and you And you already mentioned it with with Dean Wade also potentially being gone. it did sound like there was interest on both sides. The Cavs wanted to retain him.
00:22:55
Speaker
Wade was willing to see what the Cavs had to offer. But, you know, we we we kind of heard this early on in the season that watch out for Dean Wade. He could be one of the guys that you lose because the Cavs will most likely be outbid.
00:23:08
Speaker
And, um you know, Dean, Dean, Dean Wade has been solid. He's been one of those diamonds in the rough that you kind of just found out of nowhere and, and turned him into an NBA player.
00:23:19
Speaker
My opinion is he, he also has hit that Chetty Osmond wall. In my opinion, he's been here, so what, six years. Chetty was here seven years, had some moments easy to root for, but it's like, man,
LeBron's Future & Impact on NBA
00:23:32
Speaker
he never took that next step, had multiple opportunities at the starting position.
00:23:36
Speaker
and just was never able to be consistent to to hold on any kind of meaningful minutes. So if he's out the door, again, I'm not going to be crushed by that, but what are you replacing it with? Because he was a solid defender. He was a big body. He could knock down a three every once in a while and do some basic things for you.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah, what it comes down to is he was a good player that had, i mean, he had size, right? Like we didn't have, we don't have a lot of bigs outside Mobley and Allen. Like who are we putting in?
00:24:04
Speaker
Thomas Bryant and Tomlin. um So Dean Wade kind of filled that three and D role. He was a good perimeter defender. He could knock down the three. It's kind of like the only player like that that we've had that has experience as a veteran. You know, Jason or Jalen Tyson also kind of fits that that mold, too. But yeah, Dean Wade really filled a specific role for us. And, you know, in the playoffs, we could put him on.
00:24:34
Speaker
on just about anybody um and, and defend that three point line. So yeah, I'll miss Dean Wade if we lose them. But at the same time, we've got to get under the second apron so we can make some moves.
00:24:48
Speaker
I hate to lose them, but there's going to be some casualties along the way. It's the way this works. role player But he wasn't elite, you know? So no, and and here's the thing. He, he, he, he wasn't,
00:25:00
Speaker
He wasn't ever good. and He was never going to shut down Jason Tatum and in ah in ah in a playoff game. He's never going to shut down Jalen Brown. he He could do enough to bother these guys. Right.
00:25:11
Speaker
But he was never going to shut them down. Like, you know, so and he was also inconsistent and not giving you much on the offensive end. Right. So. It's just one of those things where, mean, he's on a very t he was on a very friendly contract salary-wise, but other teams recognize the value, the other things that he does that doesn't always show up in the box score, and someone is going to give him three-year deal for whatever X amount of money and and just basically outbid the Cavs most likely. They can't prioritize him over some other things that they're trying to do right now.
00:25:43
Speaker
Yeah. So but we'll see. We'll keep an eye on that. And then we also talked about Struis and Schroeder, at least of now being the names that are most likely to be offloaded if the Cavs continue to try to shed some salary.
00:25:58
Speaker
We talked about Schroeder. Struis. do you think about Struis? If Struis were to move on or the Cavs are to move on some Struis, how would you feel about that? I mean, Strews missed most of the season.
00:26:09
Speaker
He came in late in the season and just played lights out. He played fantastic, like elite. So that first game back was still magical.
00:26:23
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Magical. He was just nailing three after three after three. couldn't miss. yeah It was wild. It was crazy. Again, like I was saying before, and I can't stress it i'm stress it enough, like having some –
00:26:37
Speaker
you know, defenders on the perimeter. He's one of those guys that can defend on the perimeter. that we just don't have enough of. He's one of those guys that he's willing to accept the challenge.
00:26:50
Speaker
He's not the most athletic. He's not the biggest guy. He's not the fastest. He's not going out jump everybody, but he's always out there putting in effort. And I've, and I've felt that way since he came to the team, he's always out there on both ends, giving, giving it all that he can.
00:27:07
Speaker
And although he wasn't able to consistently give you offense throughout this playoff run, He was able to, again, give you effort out there. The Toronto series, he's guarding Scotty Barnes, right? Who is bigger, can out jump him, more athletic, more so you know more powerful.
00:27:23
Speaker
And he accepted that challenge, right? He didn't shut him down, but he bothered him, right? He peskied him. Nobody else was doing that on the calves, right? So Strews would be one of those guys where, you know, he could do some things. And when he gets hot, man, he gets hot and he'll nail some bombs, right? he be really fun to watch.
00:27:42
Speaker
But I also understand it. got You got to remember, he's he's been here, what, three years now? This would be year four. If it allows you to do some other things, to to find a way to improve somewhere else on the roster, I understand it.
00:27:55
Speaker
if If the Cavs have to move on from Max Struess, and he'll land somewhere else, right? He'll land somewhere else. He'll get a decent contract. and he'll he'll be in the NBA for many years yet. So we'll see what happens.
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah. He'll, uh, mean, he's one one of those guys that'll take the charge. That'll get the deck going for a loose ball. Yeah. He's, he's a, he's a good energy guy. A good hustle guy.
00:28:18
Speaker
Hate to see him go. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of what is the state of the calves right now, except we haven't talked about the elephant in the room, Alex. So yeah there has been rumors for,
00:28:32
Speaker
months, right, of of this offseason and what could potentially be with LeBron James, right? Yes. Will he retire? Will he continue to play? Will he stay in l L.A.? Will he come back home? Will he go to Miami? Will he start his own league? We heard all sorts of wild theories that have been speculated for weeks and months and just gets nauseating, right?
00:28:57
Speaker
Well, the time is finally here. He has decided to move on from the Los Angeles Lakers. That news broke today, and the internet is on fire, Alex. It is amazing how a 41-year-old LeBron James can still have the NBA by the ball sack. Because the NBA doesn't know what to do right now. You will not see another main major transaction happen with certain teams until the LeBron James domino falls.
00:29:30
Speaker
Because now there are teams that are going to line up to see, well, can we get him somehow? Can we sway him? Can we convince him? Oh, yeah. LeBron said, it I'm not coming back to the Lakers. And he told his agent to go out, see what teams want me, and come back, and I'll review it.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yep. He's open to any team. ah Yeah, it's it's totally the LeBron lottery. My God. It feels like it's 2009 all over again. like like there's There's three favorite teams, right? like Sure.
00:30:02
Speaker
The Golden State Warriors. ah Draymond Green basically said, i'll wait to re you know I'll opt out of my contract and wait to resign to see if we need the cap space.
00:30:13
Speaker
to bring in LeBron but and possibly ah Anthony Davis. And then the Cavs, which a Harden is holding out to re-sign his contract to see if they can make cap space for LeBron.
00:30:28
Speaker
right And then i you you know you got the dark horse, the Miami Heat. which would pair LeBron with Giannis, which has been that's gaining some traction. It's gaining some traction for a while. Like it's gaining traction only because the honest was was traded there. Right.
00:30:43
Speaker
Well, and LeBron, you know, and he played there. Right. Yeah. Right. Like or LeBron won most of his rings in Miami. Yeah. And the weather's nice. Right. And, you know, his income will be taxed as much. Correct. Correct. But there's a twist.
00:30:58
Speaker
This time around, it is not solely money driven. it is about happiness. but also about being able to play competitive basketball.
00:31:10
Speaker
So I think when Cavs fans started to hear that, considering our cap situation, gets people excited, right? It makes it feel like that door, instead of it being just a creak, you know, just barely open has, has widened a bit with, with comments like that, because What other fan base loves you more than than Cleveland? that there There isn't any other, right?
00:31:35
Speaker
He still gets embraced. He still gets loved when whenever he's here, right? that That was shown when he played here last year and when the Lakers came into town, right? The tribute video, the fans reacting, and so on and so forth. He doesn't get that love in these other places, okay?
00:31:50
Speaker
So that that could be your happiness. And then from a competitive standpoint, you look at the Warriors, you look at Miami, and you look at the Cavs, you would argue that the Cavs are the closest to being title contenders out of those three teams, at least as far as today's roster.
00:32:08
Speaker
So again, that door feels like it has swung a little bit more wide open, but I will say um there has been a lot of talk, Alex, around Golden State as well.
00:32:19
Speaker
um And man, that just makes me sick to my stomach. Yeah, I would hate to see that. If I'm being honest with you. That's the worst case scenario, like to join your... Basically your career rival, right? like That would just be the worst. it it it It really would. The end the the NBA, national media, like they would love it.
00:32:42
Speaker
They would eat it up. LeBron playing with Steph and Draymond Green, and if they had Anthony Davis, that even though that stuff's already fizzled out in the last 24 hours after that came out, just LeBron and Steph, the NBA would eat it up.
00:32:55
Speaker
they would They like, they would love that to happen. The talk show, Colin coward, although alllthough they would love it. They'd be able to talk about it all the time. Right. Um, and with Miami, they they would love that too, because he's playing with the honest and he's playing with bam and, and just, it's, it's a sexy market, you know, Cleveland is Cleveland. Right.
00:33:12
Speaker
Um, but, Yeah, that'd be the worst place for him to go because, man, it just doesn't feel right, especially after the 10-year reunion just happened. You're with your boys.
00:33:24
Speaker
And that's like that's like Magic Johnson playing the last season of his career in Boston. Yeah. I was going to say the same thing, but with Michael Jordan, but I was going to get out of here. Are you kidding me? That's, that's weak sauce. If you do, that's lame as you know what, that ends up happening.
00:33:43
Speaker
i would be rooting against him. he He just became, he, he, he, is he Hulk Hogan, Hollywood Hulk Hogan. He's going to go back to the villain again, at least in Cleveland fan guy, you know, I have perspective if he does that.
00:33:56
Speaker
And again, you had the fan base kind of split up. Well, who cares about LeBron anyways? Listen, I've been trying to temper my expectations and kind of just tell myself it's not realistic. The stars aren't going align and I'm still okay. If he doesn't end up coming back to Cleveland, but man, if he goes back to golden state, it's's it's, it's, it's going to rub me the wrong way. It's going to bother me. It's going to taint the legacy. You're going to have all those Jordan, Jordan lovers and LeBron haters come out of the woodworks. Like Jordan would never do that. He would never go play for the Pistons, the bad boy Pistons or whatever.
00:34:31
Speaker
Like, man, that's just going to be such a weird way to end his legacy. And I would hate it with a passion. I would hate it.
00:34:42
Speaker
I would hate it with a passion. But joining your arch nemesis team. what i What I will say is 24 hours ago, man, it was Golden State, Golden State, Golden State.
00:34:53
Speaker
As today has progressed and he has told l LA that he's not coming back, you are starting to hear more Cleveland stuff as well. It is starting to become more of an even kind of race as far as just people talking about it and talking about Cleveland again.
00:35:09
Speaker
But like you said, yeah, he has Rich Paul out there doing interviews and give me your cliff notes and we'll review next week. I'm celebrating the 4th July. Jesus Christ, man. There was an interview with Dan Gilbert where the interviewer asked him about...
00:35:26
Speaker
LeBron coming back and Dan Gilbert says something like, maybe we'll see. Yeah. ah because I'm like, there's no, I saw that. And he talked about the letter being stupid. I'm just like, yeah, that was a good interview though. Just the fact that he's talking this much about it tells me there is nothing in the works. Cause if there was something in the works, he'd be, we're focusing on improving our roster. Um, we have to take that next, like he wouldn't be so like,
00:35:52
Speaker
open about talking about LeBron, I feel like, if there was already something in the works between those two. But who knows? um It just feels weird.
00:36:03
Speaker
interview was, what, a week ago or so? was It was like last week, yeah. Yeah, so so at the time, I don't think, I doubt they had talked. It just feels weird that LeBron once again is holding holding the free agency hostage.
00:36:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So many players just waiting to re resign. Now teams are waiting to see what where he goes, what happens. Right. So there's been all sorts of scenarios thrown out there, and one that I'm glad has been retracted now that he is no longer going back to Los Angeles. But all the all the news or all the the suggestions for the path for the Cavs to get LeBron back was via trade.
00:36:40
Speaker
And that was via Jared Allen going to the Lakers and LeBron coming back. That's obviously out the door now. And there has been, i have seen some people float ways that this could still work without the Cavs having to break up their core four.
00:36:55
Speaker
And this is where James Harden declining his his contract was step one. Offloading salary like Struis and Schroeder is another step. Like Windhorse has already said, if the Cavs start moving off some of these guys and not really getting much back in return, they're just salary dump deals.
00:37:12
Speaker
He said, watch for that battle. That'll tell you that they're lining up. They're lining up. they're They're aligning the stars to to make it a possibility ah to have enough room for for LeBron. So that's kind of what I'm paying attention to right now is just seeing, OK, are the Cavs going to do anything with these other guys or are they going to hold hold hold tight, you know?
00:37:32
Speaker
And I don't know, man. I don't know if I had to put a bet on it or a percentage on it. i I don't know if I could, Alex. What about you? like If you would to asked me last week, have said there's no chance. Yeah, like 10% chance, right? yeah Yeah. i mean I'm all in the lottery. yeah Yeah. I'm buying the tickets. Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
Especially again. The prices would be insane if he came back. Can you imagine that? Nah. Yeah. Like a one-year retirement tour? Yeah. Wow.
00:38:04
Speaker
Especially if the Cavs can figure out a way to do it without breaking up the core four. Man, you just you just insert him into that small starting small forward. You leave everybody else there. Like you said, another year for Harden to be integrated. This team should have matured after what they just went through the playoffs.
00:38:21
Speaker
You add in LeBron, who's battle-tested 20-plus years in the league, championships out the wazoo. like Yeah, man, it'd be it'd be pretty amazing. I feel like LeBron and Harden with with where they are right now in their careers are very close to the same player. They're very similar.
00:38:42
Speaker
They're both ball dominant playmakers. Yeah. Take the ball to the perimeter. get the get a matchup, make something happen. Right. Like or shoot a three like that is their game.
00:38:54
Speaker
So I don't I don't know how well that would work. And then you got Mitchell, who's a ball dominant shooting guard to have all three of those guys on the court at once. There's no perimeter defense, right? Well, that's that's where you're sacrificing, right? And that's where your second unit, you need to find some defenders on your second unit. you need to who who's you need to You know what I would love to see is the Cavs. I don't know who. I have no idea who it is.
00:39:21
Speaker
And I don't feel like it's somebody already on the roster. But let's say that happens. You're right. There's some concerns there.
Recent NBA Trades & League Dynamics
00:39:27
Speaker
You got two old guys in your starting lineup that aren't going to play any D for you. Right. You're going to sub in Merrill.
00:39:32
Speaker
Well, no, you doesn need you can't really need to find you need to find your sixth man. Who's your definitive sixth man on this roster that can defend or score or is ah you know a three and D guy or something like that.
00:39:48
Speaker
Is it Jonathan Kaminga? I don't know. Is it Tobias Harris? I don't know. Thomas Bryant. i know Yeah. So that's what I would love the Cavs to see to try to offset. Cause if they do go that route, you need to have some stuff coming off the bench as well to offset that. Right.
00:40:06
Speaker
um So there's so many different ways this thing can play out. And listen, it might not happen. And the Cavs got to be ready to operate and figure out what they're going to do if they don't land LeBron. Because I will say it is still just a flip of the coin at this point. LeBron's going to do what he wants to do. you know And it might not be coming back here.
00:40:24
Speaker
And the Cavs organization needs to be ready. Okay, you just lost Keon. Maybe you lost Wade by then. How are you improving this roster? Right. So it's going very, very interesting here over the next days, weeks to see what the Cavs do.
00:40:38
Speaker
And it's already been pretty interesting around the league, Alex, as teams have already made some pretty significant trades and free agency signings. Let's get into that. Let's talk about a couple of the ones that stood out to us.
00:40:51
Speaker
We kind already talked about it for a quick, quick second, which was the first domino to fall, which was Giannis being traded to the Miami Heat. um I hear a lot of people saying, you know who cares? you know that The Heat just depleted their whole roster. They're not going any good.
00:41:07
Speaker
Well, they just went from you know ah like a play-in team to at least a playoff team, I would say. like they're at least ah they're theyre They're an seed. They're a seventh seed. if If things really click for them, they're succeed, right? They just signed Tim Hardaway Jr. today. They got Bam. They got Andrew Wiggins who just re-signed. Yeah. We'll see else comes out to that roster. I can't believe the money they spent to keep Wiggins there. Yeah. Wow, that was a colossal contract.
00:41:33
Speaker
It was. It was. But I will say, Alex, I was pretty happy that he didn't end up in Boston. I will admit that. Giannis. Giannis.
00:41:45
Speaker
This is the honest thing in Miami do anything for you. Does that worry you at all or. Not really. um I don't know. It's hard to say. he's he's really He was really checked out all of last season, and then he had that sort of injury. I think he just didn't want to play there anymore. think the Bucs didn't want to play him and didn't want him to actually be injured for real. you know I wouldn't put anything past to Pat Riley or Coach Spoh. They can motivate him. He might be more motivated in this new situation. Like you said, they got him paired with Bam and yeah Wiggins and
00:42:21
Speaker
Tim Hardaway Jr. So, yeah, I mean, we'll see we'll see how they do. You know, like, I agree with you. I think, you know, seed would be hanging around the bottom. but Right.
00:42:31
Speaker
So it's a team, it it it is a team in the East that has just improved itself. Is that is that a fair statement? I think that's fair. Yes. They have no depth, but... But they have improved. In the playoffs, you're only playing your your best six seven yeah hey guys anyway. so So another team in the East that has also improved today, in my opinion, are the Toronto Raptors, who gave us hell, who gave us a seven-game series that really could have went either way as far as who is getting out of that series.
00:43:02
Speaker
They have added Kawhi Leonard back to that roster, ship out Brandon Ingram, some picks, and and you know a bench player whatever. Kawhi at 35, I'm taking over Brandon Ingham.
00:43:14
Speaker
um Man, Kawhi would be perfect on this Cavs team, right? That have been a great guy to somehow, man, too expensive for you though. But Toronto Raptors, I feel like, have just improved by adding Kawhi to the mix. okay um Jalen Brown's name has been out there. A lot of drama about Jalen Brown.
00:43:35
Speaker
Cavs linked. That was kind of a hot story here locally about a week ago. Would you trade Evan Mobley for Jalen Brown? Alex, would you trade Evan Mobley for Jalen Brown?
00:43:45
Speaker
No, neither would I. And that's not going to happen at this point because his stock is actually falling as Boston is not getting what they're asking for, which is for first round draft picks, which is absurd.
00:43:57
Speaker
Right. um And I don't know what's going to happen with that, but I do worry about where he's going to end up. I'm hoping he goes out west. I don't want him going to Atlanta or Orlando or something like that and making yet another team in the East better going to Detroit, something like that.
00:44:13
Speaker
um ship him out west, Alex. I'd be willing to package a whole lot of players for Jalen Brown, but not Mobley. Yeah, and and and it's funny because Wynhorst mentioned that today.
00:44:25
Speaker
he's like He's like, you know, if they really want to show LeBron they're serious about making a run this year, they should do something like go out and get Jalen Brown. But he didn't say how.
00:44:36
Speaker
Right? And I don't think there's a way you can get him without moving Mobley. Right. um There was a lot of talk about Mitchell for Brown, but you don't necessarily know that Boston wants Mitchell. They want Mobley. They need a big. They want a big.
00:44:53
Speaker
Right. Not a smaller guy than the guy that they're shipping out. So I just I don't see how you do it, even with Jared Allen and whatever else you want to put together, minus Donovan Mitchell and Mobley. I don't think it's going to be enough, but we'll see that relationship might be so tainted now in Boston.
00:45:09
Speaker
I do feel like he's going to get moved somewhere. And I feel like once we see the details of that trade, we're going to be Oh my God, didn't the cats. Why did the calves go do that? Why didn't they find a white? Yeah. You should have shipped out Jared Allen and Max Drewson freaking Jalen Tyson.
00:45:25
Speaker
yeah You know? So, I agree with you. You're not wrong. Like, and Boston loves their white guys, right? Like, ah Struce, Dean Wade. you but Not Merrill. Yeah, Jalen Tyson, Merrill.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I would empty that bank for for Brown. We're in win now mode. If we don't win this next season, we might only have like one more season after that to win. Like, we got to go all in. I don't care what what it costs. And that's why people are saying. Upcoming youth, then we got to do it.
00:46:01
Speaker
and But that's also why people are saying you can't move on from Mobley. Because if you do start breaking it up and you have to move on from Mitchell, you can at least start your rebuild around Mobley, Tyson, guys like that that are still here.
00:46:14
Speaker
At the same time, I'm trading Jared Brown or Jared, Jared Brown. Jared Allen and a Jalen Tyson in a package for Jalen Brown, if I could do that. Right. So I don't think it'll happen. i don't think the Cavs are going to end up doing something like that. But it was just interesting that when Horst threw that out there and with his stock falling, it i am curious to see where he ultimately will land. He will make a team better wherever he goes and what that package ends up being and us being like, oh, crap, can could could could we have done something like that?
00:46:43
Speaker
How about LaMelo Ball getting shipped out from Charlotte, Alex, to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who could potentially be an Eastern Conference team here very soon? How do you feel about the Wolves being in the East and then picking up LaMelo Ball?
00:47:00
Speaker
i don't I don't care. i don't i don't think Lamella Ball is any good. He's a he's a chucker, man. ah Low efficiency score. Scores in bunches, but not efficiently.
00:47:14
Speaker
i don't care. That doesn't bother me at all. they They actually they actually so they shipped out Julius Randle and Nazir Reed. Big guy, physical guy. Two good defensive physical two guys. two big They just got smaller. They got worse on defense. They got less efficient on offense. And Lomelo has his share of injuries as well.
00:47:36
Speaker
I thought that was a surprising move for the T-Wolves organization to try to convince Anthony Edwards that they're trying to do things to improve. We'll see what happens there.
00:47:48
Speaker
um The last big trade I can think of that... was like two years in the making is John Morant.
00:47:58
Speaker
Yeah. Finally, the time has come to an end with Memphis Grizzlies. They are turning over the keys to tie Jerome, who as of today is your starting point guard for the Memphis Grizzlies.
00:48:09
Speaker
I was hoping they go in a fire sale mode and we can get tie back somehow. But John Morant out in Portland with Damian Lillard. That's a weird, weird combo. That's a weird trade. It doesn't.
00:48:22
Speaker
doesn't make any sense hey it's just it's just like hardly be anything back for him well yeah at that point at that point you're just trying to move off of it like if the Cavs ever try to move off of James Harden what do you really expect them back Alex yeah but James Harden's old John Moran's still young yeah he's gotten in some law legal trouble and he seems to be a knucklehead but he's still an elite player he's we'll see if he's still elite 25 probably 26 something like that I think but 26 player. Yeah. I mean, he's I thought you meant age, not whole age. Yeah. No, I mean like he's still a top player in the NBA when he plays. He's i don't know electric. he's late like He hasn't played in a minute. When's the last time he played?
00:49:01
Speaker
I don't know. Last time he played, he looked pretty good. When's last time Damian Lillard played? i don't know. Damian Lillard's way past his prime though. Yeah. It's going to be ah interesting and, but yeah, that, that, that one has dropped.
00:49:16
Speaker
One name I haven't heard yet that I'm kind of surprised on Alex is Kevin Durant. Because it seemed like after Durant and that team was knocked out of playoffs, there was all like sorts of talk around, you know, he's they're looking to part ways like Durant wants to be somewhere else and like.
Free Agency & Cavs' Strategic Moves
00:49:36
Speaker
I haven't heard anything on Durant. He was talking trash about his teammates again on social media. Like how is he sticking around there? Right, right. So it'll be interesting to see where some of these other older star players potentially wind up and what other kind of things come out of the woodworks that we haven't even heard about yet.
00:49:54
Speaker
But this offseason has been nothing short of entertaining. Lots of moves so far. We haven't even talked about some of the free agency signings, although I don't feel like there's been any huge, huge ones, like straight up free agency signings that that are moving the needles that are jumping out to me at least. It's mainly been more on the trade side of things that have been the the biggest movers so far.
00:50:16
Speaker
there any free agency signings you can think of that are
00:50:22
Speaker
doing it for anybody? Nothing's coming to mind. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of anything either. So we'll see, but it's, it's, it's only day one. It's day one of free agency, Alex. It's going to be interesting here.
00:50:38
Speaker
All I want is a wing and another big Alex. That's all I need. Yeah. I mean, we need to, you know, some of the guys we know we're losing, we need to replace. We definitely need some to bring in some, some more shooting and
Closing Remarks & Social Media Plugs
00:50:52
Speaker
in, defense. Yeah.
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. We'll see. We'll see how they do it. I do got to point out for Father's Day, my son Bryce got me that calves. i don't know if you can see it.
00:51:06
Speaker
The calves sign right over my shoulder back here. It's a classic logo. earliers Yeah, logo plaque. 1970s logo. The original logo looks like.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yep. It says established 1970 on Cavaliers. Yeah, pretty sweet. That's awesome. That's a great Father's Day gift. Yeah.
00:51:27
Speaker
And Alex, for those who are not watching this, is rocking his LeBron James jersey. What year you think that jersey is? Let me think. 0... 07? 08? Somewhere around there? Yeah, I was going to say 06. 06? Okay.
00:51:47
Speaker
Still looking clean. I'm trying to remember. I bought it back when I was still in college at Bowling Green. see yeah... Probably around 06, 05, maybe.
00:52:00
Speaker
Okay. Well, good stuff. You have a reason to pull it out of the closet today. We'll see if you've got a reason to wear it through next season or not. But nice to see that come out of storage. won't able afford tickets to any the games. No, you won't. You won't be able to afford a damn ticket, that's for sure.
00:52:16
Speaker
All right, Alex, we've gone long enough. Let's wrap up this episode of the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast. one I want to thank you, Cavs fans, as always, for tuning in and listening. And Alex, let them know where they can follow us and connect with us.
00:52:28
Speaker
Follow us on x at Cavs Pick and Roll. Shoot an email, cavspickandroll at gmail.com. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr. Watch this episode on YouTube. Leave us a rating or review. We'd appreciate it right, Cavs fans, there it is. we'll talk to you again soon. Peace out, Cavs fans.