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Episode 172: Eliminated & Embarrassed
47 Plays30 days ago
Alex and Corey react to the Cleveland Cavaliers being swept by the New York Knicks in humiliating fashion. We discuss the huge let down in game 1 by giving up a 22 point lead with 7 minutes left that ultimately started the downfall of the rest of the series. We talk about the lack of urgency and overall poor performances by the Cavs throughout the series. Then we transition to offseason talk and what the team can try to do to improve the roster. Lebron & Giannis are all the talk currently but we also discuss the pros & cons of such moves. It will be an interesting offseason!
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Transcript
Season Recap and Frustrations
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey, Cavs fans, welcome to the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast, the podcast for diehard fans, by diehard fans. I'm Alex, and I'm here with Corey. Well, Corey, it's the ending of another Cleveland Cavaliers season.
00:00:29
Speaker
are you feeling? It's um been about 72 hours, Alex, since the Cavs season came to an end. We, you know, um i won't say by choice. life Life continues get in the way, but we naturally didn't do an episode right away.
00:00:44
Speaker
And you would think by now we would have some time to assess, cool down. You know, nah, man, screw that. That was some bullshit.
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm still fired up. I know a lot of Cavs fans are still fired up. it's It's so unfortunate, Alex, because we finally broke through. We made it to the conference finals.
00:01:07
Speaker
first time without LeBron, which we've had to hear stuff down our throats by the media, right? Ever since it's happened. First time in 30 years in Cavs franchise history.
00:01:18
Speaker
We get there and we just, it's just a terrible effort, right? An embarrassing effort. as you get swept by the New York Knicks, who are the hottest team in the basketball right now, 11 straight.
00:01:31
Speaker
They're sitting here resting while Oklahoma and the Spurs are battling it out right now as we speak. Spurs are up, by the way, so the series could go seven. And man,
Impactful Trades Debate
00:01:41
Speaker
it's going to be tough to watch the Knicks if they potentially win a championship when it's all said and done.
00:01:45
Speaker
Well, well that that was the thing, right? Like New York was sitting there resting while we were playing two seven-game series. We played game after game after game. I can't remember how many weeks in a row.
00:01:59
Speaker
Once the Detroit series, once second round came, the scheduling always changes for the playoffs. In the first round, it's like three-day gaps in between, and they give you an extra day for travel when you're going back and forth. Once the second round comes, man, it's it's every other day. It's like regular season basketball. and Sure, it is a factor.
00:02:19
Speaker
you know When I look at the whole entire Cavs playoff run, Yes, successful. They made it to the next level. Yes, I can say that they learned how to win in some tough scenarios, but man, it wasn't easy.
00:02:34
Speaker
It took seven games to get out of the first round. It took seven more to get out of the second round. They really didn't give themselves any favors and allow them to be in a situation like New York where they will well rested. They basically limped into that series and Healthy, mind you. no No major injuries that we can blame this year.
00:02:53
Speaker
But, you know, a team playing every other night um just it catches up with you. Right. Yeah. It's just unfortunate. o A lot of factors, I think there. There's there's so much to unpack. Right. Like.
00:03:07
Speaker
Going back to the the Garland for Harden trade. i mean, we we basically traded one of our core players a huge piece for before you know ah ah Hall of Fame player who's on the downside of his career,
00:03:25
Speaker
um who who shouldn't have to carry the load of a team, so who... Oh, man. Like,
Coaching and Strategy Reflection
00:03:35
Speaker
you know, that they played 30 games together with Harden on the roster. So, you know, just trying to bring everyone together, you know, just the offensive plan, our offensive scheme, I think, changed a bit with the addition of Harden.
00:03:52
Speaker
man so I think that trade is going to go down as one of the huge gambles by by the Cavs organization when we look back from a historical standpoint. right they're going to you know ah People that don't understand or or aren't living this era are going to say, man, they traded away a, what was Darius, I don't know, 25, 26, whatever he was.
00:04:16
Speaker
former all-star point guard for for for James Harden at 36, going on 37. And then on top of it, they signed him in the offseason for two more years, which we'll talk about.
00:04:27
Speaker
and and and obviously, you know, got eliminated and didn't get to the finals. I think there could be a lot of, um like, negativity around that when you look at that. Yeah, sure. You know, I think there'd be a lot negativity no matter what. You know, we were basically running it back.
00:04:46
Speaker
And would we have gotten this far if we had kept Garland? You know, would Garland have been healthy? You know, was the toe still an issue? We know
Trade Analysis and Speculations
00:04:54
Speaker
that it was because when he went to the Clippers, you know The Clippers didn't make it very far into the playoffs with Garland on the roster and and Garland even afterwards said that he was still playing with only one good foot.
00:05:08
Speaker
So i you know i think I think in hindsight, ah you know at the moment, it was a good trade just because we did have a healthy all-star point guard you know on the team. you know Had he had more time to mesh with this roster, I think we could have done better. Yeah,
00:05:28
Speaker
yeah yeah there's just so many different angles to play here. Of course, there's going to be the negativity. yeah Look at the positives of it.
00:05:38
Speaker
yeah it's it's It's so easy to pick it apart after it fails, right? And the thing is, you've got to remember at that time when that trade happened, Garland hadn't played in weeks due to the injury.
00:05:51
Speaker
This is when Jalen Tyson was your number two scorer a because all it was was Mitchell out there. Struis wasn't back yet. you know Garland's out. Mobley isn't doing anything on a consistent night-to-night basis.
00:06:05
Speaker
um this was the time when Jalen Tyson was stepping up. right so and he And you got to remember, there wasn't a bunch of chatter around that, but it seemed like Mitchell blessed that trade from the few kind of reports that came out afterwards and and even said that he he wanted James Harden.
00:06:24
Speaker
So you have to wonder, you know was Mitchell getting frustrated at that point ah by not having Garland and and push the org to make that trade? I'm with you. They made that trade for this specific, find you know, this specific playoff run and they did get to the conference finals, not because of Harden, but he was an available body that was healthy.
00:06:46
Speaker
And we can't always say that in years past. Right. So it's tough. You know, he didn't have a great playoff run consistently at least. Right. And the calves got to figure out what they're going to do with him.
00:06:57
Speaker
And he's, most easily going to be the most hated player by Cavs fans, most likely for however much longer he's wearing a uniform. But he's going to be back, I hate to say He's going to be back. The Cavs didn't make that trade to just let him walk, right?
00:07:13
Speaker
Right. he He's certainly going to be back because he's an asset that you can't get rid of. Correct. Just because we wouldn't get anything for him. And then it would be, you know, we traded Garland for 30 days of Harden, which doesn't make sense. So you definitely got to keep him. You definitely got to resign him.
00:07:32
Speaker
You know what? What I've heard so far, you know what? Windy is saying, if you watch dan the Wind Horse interviews, he gets asked frequently about the Cavs because he used to be the Cavs beat reporter. And he was, you know, he's he's pretty confident that the Cavs will signed Harden to, you know, some sort of probably two plus one deal to two years with a player option, um a little less money to help get us under the second apron so we can make some moves so we can get our MLE. So, you know, you know, they're saying we're tied to Harden, but I wouldn't say that we're tied to Harden. We're, we're kind of tied to, uh,
00:08:13
Speaker
you know just the the way that the salary cap is set right now in the in the roster that we have, i I certainly think we'll make some moves. you know I don't see the front office, Mike Gansky or Kobe Altman, ah just being you know happy with running it back with the team that we have because we know we would just end up in the same situation next season that we are this season, playing New York, playing Detroit. Everyone else is going to get better. We also got to get better.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutelys absolutely. And um Windhorse also said if he did just let Harden walk, it's not like all of a sudden you have that money to play with. Right. So he he guaranteed he'll be back.
00:08:57
Speaker
um But then that also turns into an asset right at some point down the line, whether it's next year's trade deadline, next summer, whatever. I mean, you can always move off of that at some point. I think, again, this is easy to talk about in retrospective, but I think the trade that has me thinking a little bit more is the DeAndre Hunter trade.
00:09:18
Speaker
Because, sorry, both Keon and Schroeder, Keon was barely in the rotation in any of these series. Schroeder had some moments. He had a good game here or there, but really wasn't able to make a consistent impact. To where, man, when our offense was was was tall it was was stale out there, that's why you originally brought Hunter in, right? A big wing um that can score.
00:09:44
Speaker
And, you know, that's the trade I'm thinking about right now. Like, ah, man, what if we still had Hunter on this team? But again, it's easy to think that way when when things don't go your way. I don't know. Hunter...
00:09:57
Speaker
I would say Hunter kind of wasn't the same player when he was out there without Ty Jerome, though. Those two just fed off each other so well. like That was like just an awesome pairing to have those two come off the bench, and they were so familiar with each other.
00:10:11
Speaker
They knew each other's spots. They fed each other. or They could pick and roll together. and They were both great defensive players, so they both just kind of meshed so well together. Hunter, you know, Ty Jerome on his own or Hunter on his own, like,
00:10:25
Speaker
I don't know. you know i wouldn't I wouldn't bank on that too much as far as... you know and then And then you're talking about Schroeder coming off the bench to be your... Basically, you're starting your bench point guard in the second unit in his production.
00:10:42
Speaker
and it's kind of like... you don't You don't really need him to do a whole lot other than set up other players in and try to be a playmaker. He doesn't need to come in and and suddenly be the man.
00:10:54
Speaker
i think he did pretty well for what we needed him to do in the postseason, but I you know i certainly think that's a position we still could upgrade. Craig Porter Jr. don't think is is the guy yet, or if he will ever be.
00:11:11
Speaker
And I'm not as confident intruder either. So I think that's definitely a you know a backup point guard still or or second playmaker for the second unit is still kind of a position that we could chase after.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So let's let's kind of go back to this playoff series with with the Knicks and we'll talk more about offseason and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:34
Speaker
um So, Alex, ah it it was a quick series. got Got to give some props to the Knicks here, right? I mean, the Knicks are, again, the hottest team in the NBA. They swept the Hawks. They're on an 11 game win streak.
00:11:48
Speaker
And they're they're a team that's been around a little while. We talked about in last episode, they they they beat us the first time around, you know, our first kind of run into the playoffs with them back when they still had Hartenstein and and Julius Randle was pushing Mobley around and And we had ah who was a Danny Green garden. Julius Rant. Remember all that? So, you know, they've been around for a little while and they're just playing their best basketball at the right time of the season.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I give the Knicks no props. I think they suck. I think they played a Hawks team that was average. I think they played a Boston team that didn't have Tatum all season. ah And then they got to rest while we played the number one seed.
00:12:31
Speaker
We played two teams that had you know were top defensive teams in the and NBA and went seven games against both of them. I don't know. I think we'd take New York. It's all about a clicking at the right time though. And I guess my
Playoff Performance and Mindset Issues
00:12:45
Speaker
point is it props to them for clicking at the right time. And the Cavs deciding to forget how to play basketball and, you know, keep the teams like Toronto Raptors around and giving hope and and struggling just to get past them. Basically. I give you that. The Cavs did forget how to play basketball there for four games in a row. They did, but but it it it all started. And I know this has been talked about to death now by the media, but it, but it all started with that game. One, Alex, you know, one of the, one of the potential advantages you could have said that the Cavs had was they, they're not, they're not just sitting around, right. Just sitting on the couch waiting for their opponent.
00:13:21
Speaker
They had just come off the Detroit series. And in that first game, man, that second half comes, second quarter, third quarter, they're beating up on the Knicks pretty bad. Knicks offense looks terrible. Cavs are clicking on the road, up 22 points, seven minutes left.
00:13:39
Speaker
I'm starting to celebrate as a Cavs fan, like, holy, you know you know, I can't believe this is happening, as a lot of fans were. And man, in a blink of an eye, that lead was gone.
00:13:51
Speaker
And that game is, I'll say, considered controversial now, right? Because of how that ended and how Kenny coached that game.
00:14:04
Speaker
He called a one timeout during that entire run, um made no adjustments to help James Harden. Our oldest player on the team is guarded guarding their best player in Brunson and just play after play got picked apart. At one point, they started having like Sam Merrill come over for like a half-assed double team, but not really to try to force the ball out of his hands.
00:14:30
Speaker
But they just could not stop the run. And Alex, man, if they win that game, does that change the outcome of this series potentially?
00:14:41
Speaker
I think it does. i think losing that 22 point lead and, you know, losing that game after having that lead just kind of broke them. They were just never the same after that.
00:14:53
Speaker
Uh, man, that, that, that was brutal. Like, I don't know what happened. I kind of wanted to go back and rewatch that last, you know, eight minutes of that game to to analyze it and see kind of where the breakdown was. I just can't bring myself to do it. Yeah. need some alcohol or something. Watch it again. Yeah. I saw it once.
00:15:14
Speaker
Exactly. was, it was, unbelievable. I'm sitting there watching it with my wife. Kids are in bed at this point, right? We're just both in shock.
00:15:25
Speaker
And then on top of it, the Cavs still had chances to win the game. It felt like all they had to do was hit one or two shots and get a stop once or twice.
00:15:36
Speaker
And, you know, that game potentially still ends up in the Cavs in the win column. They couldn't even make a free throw. No, no, they're missing free throws. and me And i was a little bit upset that Mitchell was a little bit reserved. He didn't kind of recognize well enough to me, at least what was going on. Like they kept giving the ball to Harden to bring it up.
00:15:58
Speaker
You know, and we talked about how Harden, it's just everybody clears out and it's just ISO basketball garbage. And it's just like Mitchell needed to recognize, man, you get eat down to three minutes left. It's like, all right man, we we we can't F this up.
00:16:11
Speaker
I need to take this rock and I need to go on a six O run or something like that to force a timeout and and build that, that buffer again. And it just never happened. And overtime comes and and the cab just, you know, they just fall apart. They they couldn't hit a bucket and the game's over.
00:16:27
Speaker
And the problem with that, Alex, is like you said, it it it it probably mentally broke them. But man, it was the the next day, the Cavs were the laughingstock of the NBA.
00:16:39
Speaker
Just got crushed by everybody and anybody. And then how this the rest of this series played, the Cavs were never in any of these games and never had control of any of these games. And then you skip to the last game, which is in Cleveland, by the way.
00:16:54
Speaker
You lose by 37, get your ass kicked, and you're just the laughingstock of the NBA. You get to watch the Knicks celebrate on your home floor with their couple thousand fans that bought tickets and drove over, celebrities there and everything.
00:17:10
Speaker
And man, the Cavs, man, have just been getting beat up every which way. And that's the hardest part, Alex, is that Yes, they broke through and made to the conference finals, but they still look like the same weak team that they have that that that has been labeled on them for the last several years now. No heart, no fight, no energy, no sense of urgency.
00:17:33
Speaker
Can't get it done. Mitchell can't get it done, you know, um and just there's just a bad taste that gets left in your mouth. It's unfortunate. Yeah, I mean, i don't agree with that narrative at all because they did make it to the Eastern Conference Finals, which is farther than they've ever made it.
00:17:50
Speaker
I mean, that was our goal at the beginning of the season. I think if you would have asked 95% of people, what would the Cavs have to do to have a successful season? every Everyone would have said Eastern Conference Finals.
00:18:02
Speaker
And that's exactly what they did. And it's it's not that fact that they made it that far. it's It's the fact that the way they lost those Eastern Conference Finals that really just kind of... It hurts. It's not where
Offseason Plans and Adjustments
00:18:15
Speaker
we wanted to get to, but damn, did we get smoked in those finals. And it's hard it's hard to come back on that, right? And that's where at least if they would have won that game one on the road and lost the rest, lost in five games, at least you could say, man, the Cavs went in, they stole that first one.
00:18:33
Speaker
or Or maybe they lose in six then, right? Instead of getting swept like... I just wish there would have been some dignity, dick dignity, say that right? Dignity attached to them being eliminated. There there was absolutely none.
00:18:48
Speaker
It looked like ah a varsity squad playing and you know an eighth grade team out there. And there's just so what that you made it to the conference finals is kind of the narrative right now.
00:19:00
Speaker
And then you throw in kind of the comments that, you know, Kenny made, Harden made, you know, Harden were the better. I still think we're the better team. you just got crushed. Kenny talking about analytically, we're up two to one. He got crushed for that. Nobody, nobody wants to hear that stuff. Right.
00:19:16
Speaker
So they didn't do themselves any favors either, you know, with, with not only their play on the court, but also what they said after the games. Yeah, I mean, i I don't think that they're wrong.
00:19:29
Speaker
i just think, you know, it wasn't probably... It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, though, because it's like the LeBron and Jordan thing. LeBron will never be better than Jordan because Jordan wins 6-0. Doesn't matter.
00:19:43
Speaker
You can't, there's nothing here you can say to anybody outside of the Cavs fan base that's going to save you or spin this in a positive light. All they see is you lost 4-0, you blew a 22-point lead, and you lost by 37 in an elimination game on your home court.
00:19:59
Speaker
You had no fight, no nothing. Like, that that's that's what I hate about this run is that that's what's attached to it. We had what mattered. We had Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift sitting courtside. That's all that matters. I heard he bought my art. and but He's a minority owner of the guardians now. Yeah, I did. I heard that the other day too. That's, that's pretty wild. That is pretty wild. Maybe the guardians will actually spend some money now.
00:20:25
Speaker
and Maybe, maybe, maybe. So Alex, the Cavs, you know, their season is obviously done now, right?
00:20:35
Speaker
Now it's a time of reflecting. And, you know, now what is is the next question? dan Gilbert was very quick to come out to say we're going to do everything and anything to be aggressive and figure this out. And You know, um got to remember the Cavs are the most expensive salaried team in the NBA.
00:20:56
Speaker
um You know, and I think Dan's pockets are are still open, but, you know, they're not be open forever. And he wants to see a ah good product for what he's paying for. But at the same time, Alex, and we're going to get into it, I want to get your opinion on this.
00:21:10
Speaker
There's a whole bunch of theories and rumors and stuff that's been out there, frankly, for for for quite a while now before the Cavs got eliminated. And I just don't know how much I buy into it, how much of it actually being real, because the more I think about it, I just don't know if if if if if everything's going to line up or if the Cavs will actually have the balls to pull the trigger on some of this stuff.
00:21:35
Speaker
Obviously I'm talking about LeBron. I'm talking about Giannis. I'm talking about those types of things. Um, what are your kind of thoughts? And, and, you know, now that we're in the off season, I think I know the answer. Did did did the Cavs need to do some minor tweaks that need to make some major moves in your eyes? What what do you want to see them kind of do here?
00:21:57
Speaker
I think, uh, I think they're definitely going to make some moves. I think, um, I think that almost almost no one is safe but outside of Mitchell and Harden.
00:22:11
Speaker
That means Mobley could be moved, Allen could be moved, Struess could be moved, you know Dean Wade, um Keon Ellis, you know just about everybody. I i think Jalen Tyson will probably try to hold on to him, but...
00:22:26
Speaker
There's a lot of value there. Jalen Tyson's on a low contract. He showed flashes of brilliance during the regular season. He's such a young player. His ceiling is super high.
00:22:38
Speaker
So if, you know, I think he's a guy you need to try to hang on to. I think, I think teams, I think teams are going to try to figure out how to snatch him away because let's just, let's just go to the Giannis thing real quick. Cause that's one of the hot things, right?
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. um The calves have Evan Mobley, which, which is probably appealing to a lot of teams. What the calves lack though is draft capital, right?
00:23:05
Speaker
So what's the next best thing when you don't have draft capital? Well, what's your young talent on your team? I'm not talking about Tomlin. I'm not talking about Porter. You know, ah I want Evan Mobley and I want Jalen Tyson.
00:23:20
Speaker
Are you going to give up that much? are younna Are you giving that up for Giannis? Some people will say yes. Some people will say, hold up a second here. You already got 37-year-old James Harden. You want to bring in LeBron at 42. Giannis his now, and you're going to trade away your two youngest players.
00:23:36
Speaker
and and you're going to trade away you're you're two youngest stars buts let's just I don't know if Tyson's a star, but potentially grows into a star player, right? um And that's what I was talking about. like i just don't know if the Cavs will have the balls or not to do that.
00:23:51
Speaker
And even if they do it, Alex, I think... that age and that starting lineup is going to show itself throughout the course of the season a 42-year-old, a 37-year-old, and a 31, 32-year-old. Mitchell's approaching 30 or turn 30.
00:24:07
Speaker
You all of a sudden have just become the oldest starting lineup in the NBA if all those stars align. Would it be as exciting as hell? Absolutely. Media would go nuts. Cavs fans would go nuts.
00:24:19
Speaker
Just, man, we we know it's a long season, and that's just how much are you only give up. When you go with LeBron stuff, he he's not signing he's not he's not he's not signing for million or whatever the Cavs have.
00:24:32
Speaker
So the other thing that's been floated around a lot, and I know you heard it as well, is you might have to do a sign and trade. Are you trading Jared Allen as well to bring in LeBron, Jared Allen, Max Strews? Or maybe they try to get Tyson. like Are you are trading away all these guys to bring in two guys that are...
00:24:49
Speaker
you know up there in age. It's a huge gamble. It's a huge gamble. You have a one-year window, maybe two at max with that roster. I think we're already in that window, Corey. I think you know when we made that garland for Harden trade, that completely changed the course of the franchise. It completely changed our timeline.
00:25:11
Speaker
We're in win now mode. Like Garden's already up there. Like you said, Mitchell's 30. You know, he's in his prime. He's going to be going on the downside of his prime in, you know, four years.
00:25:23
Speaker
um So I think that they will do everything they can to get someone Giannis or someone like Giannis. I don't know about LeBron. I i think that's that's still a reach. I think a lot of Cavs fans want to see that. I think there's smoke behind that because, yeah, LeBron's about to retire. They want him to come do a retirement tour.
00:25:45
Speaker
He's still a good facilitator, still a good playmaker. He's still a great passer. He doesn't attack the hoop like he used to. He's never been that great of a three-point shooter.
00:25:56
Speaker
he His defense is suspect. you know LeBron would be an incredible veteran to have on the bench, but he's not a guy that's going to change the course of you know yeah us getting any farther in the playoffs than we are right now. I think Giannis definitely would. i think he's, you know, he's a complete on another level than Mobley is for sure.
00:26:20
Speaker
He is. Jalen Tyson, like what is Jalen Tyson ceiling? You know, Jalen Tyson, he's a great shooter. He can shoot the three. He's got some nasty defense. He's almost like a, you know, he's felt physical. You know, he's is that he's that kind of player that we need. He's almost like a non-villain version of Dylan Brooks.
00:26:40
Speaker
um and And we kind of need that, but he's still so young. It could be, you know, three, four or five seasons before he reaches the level that we need him to be at. And on the timeline that we're on, I don't know that he is going to be there to to help us enough. So I think if you can trade Mobley and Jalen Tyson and maybe a pick for Giannis, you have to do it because we need to win within the next one or two seasons because of our trajectory our trajectory that we're on.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. those are all fair points. I just, man, can you do it without getting so much older? Because Giannis is the next youngest guy, right? But but you still have Harden, who'll be 37, 38, potentially 39 if he you know plays here another two seasons, whatever it is. You got LeBron in his age.
00:27:32
Speaker
um And just again, thinking about the pieces that potentially go out to bring in, you know, the Giannis, you're trading youth to continuously get get older.
00:27:43
Speaker
And again, it it'd be, man, I'd be shocked if the Cavs do it. And if the stars align, I would give them props for going for it. um It just it makes me wonder, you know, what would be left? What would our bench look like? You know, that there's a lot of factors to to consider.
00:28:01
Speaker
um But I do wonder if, if again, you know, it's all smoke and mirrors. If if anything will actually happen, I think Cavs fans will be very disappointed. If if essentially the same starting five, whatever that is, because really it's just the four and then whoever they feel like plugging in at the small four position. If we started the season next year with that same starting five, I think a lot of Cavs fans would be would be disappointed in the offseason.
00:28:28
Speaker
um But Alex, sometimes things come out of thin air too, right? like It's not like we heard about the Mitchell thing before it happened. You never know what other kind of moves are out there. It's just the LeBron and the Giannis thing is just what everybody is stuck on because it's it's just the LeBron thing we've heard about forever now and the Giannis thing we've we've we've heard for half the season. so that's what everybody's stuck on.
00:28:51
Speaker
But I just wonder if there's other options out there that are just as good without you having to get just as old or potentially giving up as much to get there. Because I don't think this team is far off, Alex. I don't think they need to flip half this roster over. I think that'd be a mistake.
00:29:07
Speaker
um It's just going very interesting to see what the Cavs are able to do and what direction they go in. I agree with you, and I don't think that you know it's necessarily the bench. you know We're always excited during the regular season that we have this so many great players and super deep team, and when we get to the postseason, yoga we're going to be able to use all these players, but the truth is, When you get to the postseason, you're only playing your top seven or eight guys no matter what. That rotation shortens. That's why you didn't see Keon Ellis hardly get any minutes. You didn't see Jalen Tyson get hardly any minutes.
00:29:41
Speaker
Tomlin got no minutes. Like all these guys that played during the regular season aren't getting minutes because you shorten that rotation down so much. So if we can upgrade guys, you know, in that top six, seven,
00:29:53
Speaker
you know, range of players that we have, like I'm not concerned about who's sitting on the bench or not. Those are just regular season players. ah They don't get you any farther than than you need.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I know that there was some criticism around that. Like if, if your guys are tired because they just went through two, seven game series, you have some, some people on your bench that can play basketball, like a key on Ellis, like a Jalen Tyson. I've even heard a Thomas Bryant, you know, why did, why didn't he get some more run just to go out there for four or five minutes, draw a couple of files, push some guys around and grab a rebound, right. Just to give these guys a couple minutes of a break or whatever.
00:30:33
Speaker
um But I get it. You know, you know, your your rotation gets skinny down. I don't I don't like it, but I understand it. And um just again, it'll be interesting to see.
00:30:45
Speaker
This year was kind of weird because it's the first time we can't say that the exit was due to you know, injuries um or anything like that. Right. um okay Sure. Everybody's kind of just limping around because of the schedule, but you didn't have anybody sitting in street clothes.
00:31:04
Speaker
And maybe that's what helped you actually get through those first two series. You know, if if Jared Allen sitting in street clothes, you probably don't get out of those series. Right. So kudos for that. um But now they just got to figure out and continue to learn from from this and figure out what other retooling can they do to make sure that they can continue to progress next season.
00:31:26
Speaker
And at the end of the day, Alex, I mean, we've we've we've had what, four or five years now of of kind of disappointing playoff runs. But this team has been relevant for four or five years now and has been a championship caliber team for at last for at least the last two seasons and will continue to be next season as well. So that's the one positive i'm trying to hold on to, Alex. It's not like they're in blow-up mode. It's not like they're about to become the Sacramento Kings and and now we've got to watch this thing rebuild over the next half a decade or something like that. There's still a relevant team
Relevancy and Expectations Debate
00:32:02
Speaker
that's right there.
00:32:03
Speaker
I want to talk about that a little bit because, you know, that is like if you read the Cleveland Cavaliers subreddit, like there's just so many comments about, you know, fire Kenny. We got to blow up this team. like It's not working. We can't run it back. And.
00:32:21
Speaker
I just wonder, like, do these people understand that only one team out of all the and NBA teams can win a championship? Like the Cavs finished. They were top four. They beat the number one team in the East.
00:32:35
Speaker
They did pretty well. And they didn't even play their best basketball. They didn't. They didn't even play their best basketball. and Absolutely. Like, like what I was saying earlier, like they, heart they added Harden at the end of the season. Like they're not even like, you know, cohesive yet. They're not meshing well yet.
00:32:51
Speaker
They don't know each other very well yet. Like they need time together. um And just so many people are like, you know, blow it up, all this, all that. And it's like, if they do that, it's not like you're going to blow up the roster and win win a championship the next season. Like, I don't know what these people are thinking. Like, sure, you're going to blow up the roster. You're going to get a new coach. and You're going to get a bunch of draft picks. You're going to be a lottery team.
00:33:15
Speaker
The Cavs may not be relevant for another 30 years, just like the Knicks were. yeah The Cavs are actually what's my mind in our lifetimes, we are spoiled as Cavs fans because although you and I were too young, folks a little bit older than us, they had the Mark Price, the bra the Brad Doherty, Cavs teams who were good. They obviously weren't able to break through similar to our Aeros team right now.
00:33:39
Speaker
You had the LeBron runs both in the you know early 2000s and then in the 2010s and all that stuff and ultimately a championship. And like I just said, the last four or five years, you've been a playoff team here with the new era, the new generation. So...
00:33:55
Speaker
When I look over the last three decades, we're spoiled as Cavs fans, right? we're very we've We've had very good fortunes. And that goes to ownership and the team making great decisions and who they draft and their trades and all that, minus Anthony Bennett.
00:34:11
Speaker
But, you know, again, this Cavs team is going to be relevant again. And if the Cavs did do that, you'd be excited for about a hot second and you'd be miserable when they would win 21 games next year if they did that.
00:34:23
Speaker
Yeah. Get out of with that. Get out of here with that. Get off subreddit, Alex. Yeah, I know. You know, I read a lot of comments. People have a lot of nostalgia for that. You know, that Colin Sexton, Darius Garland team.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yes. Yes. People comes out that team never even made the playoffs. They were in a couple play in games and didn't couldn't win either one of them. But that team never made the playoffs. And people are saying that they regret making the Donovan Mitchell trade now. And it's like, how many times have the Cavs been in the playoffs since LeBron left without Donovan Mitchell?
00:34:57
Speaker
Again, it's zero. It's it's always it's always easy to beat up past decisions when the here and the now, it doesn't work out the way you want it. And like you just said, I like what you said a couple of minutes ago about to do people realize only one NBA team you know wins this thing at the end of the year. What if you would to beat the Knicks and instead of getting swept and embarrassed in the conference finals, that would happen in the finals? Would you feel any better right now?
00:35:23
Speaker
No, you would feel the exact same way. Right. It is very difficult so to win a championship in the NBA. There's a lot of factors. And we've talked about that to death. Right.
00:35:35
Speaker
Again, the Cavs, like you said, were one of the last four teams. um And again, i that's why That's why I'm torn on do they really need to to to go home run swinging here and change out almost half the roster just to bring in two older guys? Or do they they could do something a little bit smarter. I don't know what it is. I don't have the answer.
00:35:58
Speaker
Can they go out and get somebody else that nobody's even thinking about for right now and not have to and give up only half of what they would have to give up to get these other guys that we're talking about? and is a better fit on top of it, not only here in the now, but for the future.
00:36:12
Speaker
Because LeBron going to be here for the next five years. Giannis probably wouldn't be here for the next five years. right It's a one- to two-year thing, and then you're blowing it up anyways if it doesn't work out. so I do kind of get those ah those Laker vibes of when they added Carl Malone and Gary Payton, and they just start stacking all these old all-stars, and Kobe carries them through the playoffs, but they can't ultimately win it all because it's just so much so old, you know?
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's hard to know what to believe, but I saw i saw a report come out today about LeBron saying you know him and his camp want the Lakers to make him a contract offer if if they are expecting a max contract offer, probably because of what he did in the playoffs and basically had to carry the team through that with the injuries they had.
00:37:02
Speaker
And anything less than that, he wants an explanation of why and what they plan on doing with that money. That right there tells you he's not going to come here for a home hometown discount, if that's true, by the way, right?
00:37:15
Speaker
And I forget who it was. It was either Chris Fidor or some other local beat reporter. They also made the comment that made me laugh and and and really put things into perspective. LeBron isn't coming home to make less money than Dean Wade. Okay?
00:37:31
Speaker
It's not happening. So again, if you want LeBron, and I would love to see it happen, but not by shipping out Jared Allen, not by shipping out Max, not by shipping out other rotational pieces, man, because it's, it's, man, it's, it's, it's addition, but it's also subtraction in my opinion. are you, how
Coaching Staff and Future Directions
00:37:50
Speaker
you replacing Jared Allen? How are you replacing that?
00:37:53
Speaker
You know? So I just, again, it's fun to think about, it'd be fun to play some 2K with that team and all that stuff, Alex, but I just don't know how realistic it is. I feel like Jared Allen's pretty safe. like he's ah He's a great center.
00:38:07
Speaker
He's always the guy that gets brought up, though. He's always the guy that gets brought up. He's the new Kevin Love, man. It's just not deserving. it's It's just not deserving. Andy's on a very team-friendly contract. He's only making $20 million. He makes half as much as you know three or four other players on the roster.
00:38:26
Speaker
And he is an integral piece that isn't easily replaceable. It's just not easy to go find a big man. Look at look at Bryant. He's our next big man up, and he can't fill Allen's shoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So the the good news is is there won't be any shortage of...
00:38:46
Speaker
drama this offseason as far as rumors and speculation and buzz. and you know Eventually, as some more time goes on to get past the finals, the draft you know happens and all of a sudden trades start happening.
00:39:01
Speaker
You know, there'll start to be some excitement from the Cavs fan base, you and I included, because it's like, all right, what are the Cavs going to do? Right. And I just I don't know. i'm trying to for myself, at least set some expectations of I i don't know if I'm going to realistically see this team look completely different the start of next season, just because, again, their cap situation and and a lot of stars that have to align.
00:39:29
Speaker
That's not the worst thing in the world, but I don't want them to stand pat either, Alex. So I know that's kind of condescending of itself, but um they need to make some decisions, right? they Are they going to bring back Max Struess, for example? Are they going to re re-sign Dean Wade?
00:39:43
Speaker
um you know Don't freak out Cavs fans when Donovan Mitchell doesn't re-up this summer because guess what? He can make more money if he waits till next summer. But that also puts some extra pressure on the Cavs upcoming season with him being you know ah officially a free agent in 27. There's all these things and factors that will continue to put the pressure on the Cavs to retool and increase, make this team better.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's just, I don't know what and what capacity that's going to be in. And that's That's the exciting part though, Alex, is just again to see what is this team going to do now? How are they going to react? Yeah. Yeah. Like I said earlier, I don't think anyone's safe outside of Mitchell and Harden.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. they and they shouldn't be. Everyone's fair game. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So there's lots of endless possibilities. So it'll be fun to talk about. You know, this off season, then trying to tack somebody on at the trade deadline, like we did with Harden and then you know They add three players, and you know we're we're playing good, but we're not playing championship ball because we're trying to get these new players to fit a new system and mesh and congeal. It's just a lot. You say congeal?
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, congeal. I'll have to look that up. yeah How do you spell that? Congeal. I don't know. All right, all right, all right. Don't ask me to spell words. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:13
Speaker
No, so yeah, the season ends in disappointment, but there is some silver lining there. You are still a championship caliber team, um and we'll see what the Cavs can do, Alex, and and we'll have fun this offseason following along, and we got to get through some other things, right? We got to have this finals come and go and and just...
00:41:34
Speaker
That's the hardest part, right? It's just waiting for all those things to to pass so that we can see how the Cavs are going to improve. Yeah, well, I feel like a lot of lessons were learned.
00:41:46
Speaker
A lot of experience was gained. And hopefully we'll carry that into next season. I hope so, man. God, I hope And that's all I want to say about Kenny. ah Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:04
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. right It is what it is. Kenny's coming back. I know a lot of Cavs fans don't like it, but he's coming back. I think there may be an overhaul of the staff. Like, I know Kenny's staying. The Cavs have said Kenny is our coach. They said the staff. they said They said Kobe's safe. They said everybody's safe.
00:42:22
Speaker
No, I mean, like, more yeah you know, the assistant coaches. Maybe there'll be some changes there. yeah Seems like a good good little shake up there for the staff. Maybe.
00:42:33
Speaker
Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what that really does. I don't know. Maybe one of them will call a timeout when they need to call timeout. Well, that. You need someone that just calls and manages your freaking timeouts because that's all you need to do.
00:42:46
Speaker
Call a timeout. Exactly. All right, Alex. Let's wrap up this episode of the Cavs Pick and Roll Podcast. want to thank you, Cavs fans, as always, for tuning in and listening. And, Alex, let them know they can follow us and connect with us.
00:43:00
Speaker
Follow us on X at Cavs Pick and Roll. Shoot an email, CavsPickAndRoll at gmail.com. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr. Watch this episode on YouTube. Wherever you're listening, click like, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review. We'd appreciate it. All right, Cavs fans, there it is. we will talk to you again soon.
00:43:17
Speaker
Peace out, Cavs fans.