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67. Covers vs Originals - Part 3
43 Plays7 months ago
In this show, we aim to determine which type of song rules supreme: The Cover or The Original!
Does writing the music and lyrics grant you immortality in having come up with the initial work? Or is it how you take those lyrics/music and develop it into something special that matters more?
In our next battle of the ‘Covers vs Originals’ war, we take a look at 4 more covers chosen by ourselves and our listeners and discuss & debate whether it is better than the original.
And so continues the game for many ‘Cover vs Original’ episodes to come to determine… which is better - the cover or the original?
Going in to Part 3 - Covers: 10 Originals: 6
This episode:
- “Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds” - Elton John
- “Love Is Strange” - Wings
- “Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door” - Guns N’ Roses
- “(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction” - Otis Redding
Episode Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7JWMIwWaBsgsvheCXIBYlc?si=76c714629b664722
LONG LIVE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Long Live Rock and Roll Podcast with your host, Slasmy Kalidi's here and on the screen opposite me, Mr Felipe Amorim. How you doing, bro? Doing great, bro. How's everyone doing? I hope you guys all right.
00:00:25
Speaker
Good, good, good. Yeah, we hope you guys are okay. Thanks for tuning into another one of the episodes. We've done quite a few albums in a row,
Format and Listener Feedback
00:00:31
Speaker
haven't we? So we thought we'd kind of split it up with a bit of topical discussion and the feedback we've had from you guys regarding these episodes has been really positive. So we're going to do another, a third part of the covers versus originals debate. And you know, I love about this Felipe, there's no end. It's not like part three. I actually thought like how many songs have been covered like by famous rock bands and it's like,
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's endless, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. We're going to be like 75 years old doing like, you know, the Welcome to Covers versus Originals Part 73. Kind of that. Yeah, I don't know why I went for like Beatles accent. But anyway, yeah, welcome back. And what we love to do with this show, with especially in these kind of episodes, is we take your suggestions as well. So in this playlist today of the four songs, we're going to look at the covers and the originals, have a debate about which one we prefer.
00:01:24
Speaker
Two of them have been chosen by you guys, which I put out stuff on our social media telling us, asking you to tell us your favorite covers and we've stuck them all in the big playlist. And when it comes to doing these shows, Felipe picks one, I pick one, and then we pick one or two as suggested by you.
Scoring Covers vs Originals
00:01:39
Speaker
So leaving the last covers versus originals episode, we have a scoreboard. So the covers are currently winning by 10 to six. Now this is purely mine and Felipe's opinions on whether we choose the cover
00:01:53
Speaker
of all the original of a song and we're going to continue this because ultimately we want to get like we said whenever this podcast ends let's hope it's another 50 60 years from now whenever it does end we want to be able to say well the final score covers 167 originals 123
00:02:12
Speaker
It would be really funny as well to just keep this going. But yeah, so that's going into this episode, covers 10 originals, six. So without further ado, let's get cracking.
Elton John's Take on The Beatles
00:02:24
Speaker
First song we're going to do is Elton John's cover of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds made famous by The Beatles. Felipe kick us off, bro. What are your first thoughts on this? So that's a John Lennon song, isn't it? Yes.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah from an album that is dominated by Paul McCartney when you think about it and you have John putting his psychedelic touch into the album and it's such a beautiful song and I
00:02:54
Speaker
I think, well, I remember listening to the Elton John version like some time ago, but I didn't pay too much attention to it. It was like, well, sounds pretty much like the original, but even the drum fill, there's a really cool drum fills. There's like three hits, boom, boom, boom, and it gets into the chorus, which is like so remarkable. He kept that thing.
00:03:15
Speaker
There's a slightly different bass line at the beginning, but the bass comes in kind of at the same time. So he didn't, when you start listening to Elton John's version of it, it doesn't sound that much different. Then he gets into a verse is when he sings about, is it the
00:03:31
Speaker
I've got the lyrics, his new newspaper tacks his appear on the shore. So that's at this part of the lyrics, he changes the melody. It's not the same melody. And he even adds a kind of a reggae beat at some point. So it does become quite different. But it's like he's preparing you for that. I feel like it's slightly slower. I didn't like check the BPM or anything like that. I think it is slower. Yeah.
00:03:59
Speaker
It's slower, but it's almost like, you know this song that you guys know really well, here's me just playing like the original kind of, you know, and then he starts changing it. And Elton John is a big fan of John Lennon, right, so he didn't, I bet he never wanted to do anything that would sound like
00:04:20
Speaker
I don't know, remotely bad. So I think it's like, try to be kind of loyal to the original version, but then at the end, he just goes nuts. I actually really enjoyed it when I actually paid attention to the arrangement. I think he put some effort into being creative on someone else's material without affecting the essence of the song. And I think he did a phenomenal job with that.
Merits of Different Versions
00:04:49
Speaker
It's a really good point. And I agree. I listened to the song. I thought it was lovely. Musically, as in music theory wise, it's down half a step. It's down a whole tone. So the key, the overall key of the song is different. And for some reason for me, when we hit the chorus, it feels like a much more dramatic key change than it does in the Beatles one. Because of the difference in the original keys. That's what I'm thinking because I mean, the only other option to describe that would be
00:05:19
Speaker
this would be a criticism of the cover, is that I think the Beatles version
00:05:26
Speaker
The flow of the song is so immaculate. It just goes from one section to another seamlessly. The song floats the whole way through. And there are three key changes, if I'm not mistaken. So you've got your intro and your verse, and then it changes where it's cellophane, flowers, or the newspaper taxi. That's a key change. And then when it goes to Lucian, that's also another key change, I believe. Someone, if you're listening, correct me if I'm wrong.
00:05:56
Speaker
In the Beatles song, I just don't ever feel like you notice that. Whereas with the Elton John one, I think that the changes between the sections are quite regimented, they're quite uniform. And I suppose, you know, just to say, I'm a big fan of both of these songs. I love the Beatles one, but the Elton John cover is brilliant, but I'm nitpicking because you guys know we have to give a score, we have to choose our favourite.
Personal Preferences Debate
00:06:19
Speaker
So I have to be critical.
00:06:21
Speaker
I did like, the Elton John one, I kind of felt it went a bit more psychedelic, especially in the intro, in the production of the instruments, the effects on the instruments.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the Beatles at that time, they were experimenting a lot and we think it's kind of hard to match that. But I think it's hard to out psychedelic the Beatles. Especially with a song written in the 60s. What a task. Yeah, but you know, he was there. I mean, he accepted the challenge and did a great job on that. I think there's something really interesting about their voices.
00:07:04
Speaker
John Lennon and Elton John they have um actually Elton John his stage name like his it's Elton John if I'm not wrong uh he chose John because of John Lennon I'm not quite sure but wow I didn't that's what's in the movie I think that's in his movie and and he was you know working with the producer so I believe he wouldn't let that uh
00:07:29
Speaker
make it into the movie if it was alive. But they both have such remarkable voices and they cannot pretend to be someone else. So that's the one thing about Elton John, it's like this is me singing this song. I feel like there's less effect on his voice, it's more like his natural voice. And they just, yeah, he didn't
00:07:51
Speaker
he just can't sound like anyone else. He's got such a personality and same thing about John Lennon. So it's so funny because like I can't pick my favorite in that point. It's just like I love both interpretations in terms of vocals and I really like the changes in the beat and the melody they all tend to brought to the song. At the same time the original is so like
00:08:18
Speaker
It's just so stuck in my brain in a way that I can't get rid of it. It's there. Just like most songs on Sgt. Pepper, especially the first sort of five songs, they're perfect. And you can only, it's so hard to cover a Beatles song because how are you going to do it better than them?
00:08:41
Speaker
of the most iconic band the world has ever seen because of songs like Lucy, Getting Better, Sgt. Pepper. How do you cover them better than the most iconic band and a song from the most iconic album? So actually massive credit and props out and John Friedland attempting this. Again, for my sake, in terms of my opinion, being a bit nitpicking, a bit critical, I didn't think it needed to be that long.
00:09:07
Speaker
And you know that he, sorry, Elton John's version, you know that he changed. You're right. He changed the melody when he repeats newspaper taxis. He does it again in a bridge, doesn't it? Acts is almost like a bridge section. Didn't need that. And I don't really know, again, just being ultra critical. Don't really know if we needed that little reggae section before the final chorus. Kind of thought it took me out of the flow of the song more.
00:09:31
Speaker
I enjoyed Elton's version because it was segmented. Like I said before, the Beatles song just runs so
Wings' Interpretation of 'Love is Strange'
00:09:38
Speaker
smoothly section to section. Elton John's one, you do feel it's like, right, here's the verse. Okay. He's obviously showing us the transition to the pre-chorus, right? We've got that. Right now he's building up for the chorus and it's just, I feel it's very regimented in that sense. You can tell where each section is, whereas the Beatles one, it just flows.
00:09:58
Speaker
I kind of felt the reggae section just took me out. However, the solo in Elton John's one was really cool. I think it was a little flute solo or something, just added to the psychedelic element of it. I thought it was a flute, but I could be wrong. But the chorus of Elton John's one really, it's brilliant. The bass groove is fantastic, the backing vocals on it and the drum fills in the chorus, I thought were brilliant.
00:10:29
Speaker
so who scores on that one okay so i have to go with the original what about you you're gonna be surprised i'll go for it up and down wow really i am surprised so you're just to confirm just so the listeners also know what we do
00:10:45
Speaker
need you to confirm it and I need you to confirm it for the viewers as well. You're saying that if you could only listen to one version of this song for the rest of your life it would be Elton John's. That's for sure and I'll tell you why. Phrasing like that it's for sure because the the original one I don't need to listen to it again because it's
00:11:07
Speaker
like forever in my mind, it will never leave you. So the thing with- That's cheating. Yeah. That's it? No, no. Here's, yeah. Okay. I might, yeah. Go for it. No, go on, explain. No, no. So yeah, the Beatles police is going to arrest me, but here's my thoughts on that.
00:11:32
Speaker
I love that song so much and the album so much. And Elton John, I saw him live at his last tour and I think he was absolutely brilliant. He's such an amazing artist. I mean, I'd never realised how much he was
00:11:55
Speaker
part of my life listening to radio, even back in Brazil, because his music is everywhere all the time. And it's just phenomenal. I love him, right? And his pop, but his rock and his blues and classical, he's got everything. So I love him. But that song, yeah, the Beatles, I would even say, well, maybe the Beatles is actually better in that sense. But
00:12:16
Speaker
Because I loved the Beatles so much and I didn't remember Elton John's version of it. When I listened to it, it was so refreshing. It just gave another life to a song that I love. But I must say the picks we had for this episode were the hardest ones for me to compare.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad to hear it. It's the third time we're doing this, right? This is, yeah, third episode. And guys, you've got to let us know in the comments, either get in touch or put them in the comments below. Where are you voting? Are you going for the cover or the original? So going from the Beatles, we are going to talk about one Beatle, Mr. Paul McCartney and his band Wings. So this, this song was actually chosen for us by my brother, who showed me this song when we were at a family gathering one day and I thought,
00:13:08
Speaker
you know he actually suggested it when I said you know what songs should we do that covers and he put this one in and I'm really glad he did because when he first showed me this song I loved it and then he showed me the original and I loved it even more I mean not even more but both songs brought something sort of stirred up something within me and the song is Love is Strange by Wings and the original was done by a sort of I imagine their 50s kind of rock and roll duo called Mickey and Sylvia. I'm going to start this one off and say that
00:13:36
Speaker
When I heard the wings version, first of all, you think it's almost instrumental because the intro goes on for like a minute and a half. A minute and a half, yeah. But I heard it and I heard the groove and I heard the
00:13:52
Speaker
the the the bossa police are going to come and get me because I might get the wrong kind of genre that I'm sort of talking about here but it almost does have that kind of latino feel to it where it's just yeah I thought that groove was a bit like a bit south american yeah I think it's yeah they did something yeah that's that's really nice and then when I heard the original it was so different
00:14:21
Speaker
yet really familiar. And I know that's probably, that is what a good cover's meant to do. But yeah, why don't you carry on for a little bit? Sorry, I wasn't familiar with this song. Any of them? No, I love Wings, but I don't remember listening to this song or maybe I didn't listen to the whole album or whatever, but I don't remember the song and I don't know the original artists. I've never heard of them, believe me or not.
00:14:50
Speaker
and so when I listened to it like I've listened to the original and the feeling I had was like yeah love is strange and the song is kind of strange right the way that yeah it's it's like
00:15:07
Speaker
It's on the edge of being radio friendly because it's short, has like a really strong chorus, creative lyrics, but it's a strange, and it's not really positive, you know, cheerful, and they don't have, I didn't hear any
00:15:25
Speaker
drum beats to it. It sounds like glasses. I don't know what kind of objects they used as percussion, and I think the idea was to make an arrangement that is actually strange. And I thought the effect of that is amazing. So then I went on to listen to the Wings version, and you can hear it like, yeah, that's Wings. That's a band that I love, and I love the way they play.
00:15:50
Speaker
and you have that vibe and it's kind of a hippie take on that song yeah yeah you know kind of it's very like you know post Beatles you know McCartney vibe and and they did a great job and I think the most
00:16:12
Speaker
relevant change in the song is the drum beat you might agree with me so because the drum beat really loops itself and repeats and repeats and becomes a big part of the song. I found quite weird that I actually just like you I thought oh this they just did an instrumental take on it and no they actually just take a while to start singing it's almost like they want you to get
00:16:36
Speaker
get used to a certain groove and a certain atmosphere, and then they come singing something that you probably know, or you might have heard before. So it's like, here's this weird groove, you don't know what this is going to lead to, but then
00:16:52
Speaker
comes a song, there's a cover song. Right. I love McCartney's voice on that one. He doesn't overdo anything. It's like to the point, you know, they've got the harmonies, they got the, you know, the clever arrangements and everything. I like it, but comes about. I found really hard to make a pic, but I'll give you my opinion now on this one, because that's my conclusion is they made it less strange
Original vs Cover Dynamics
00:17:20
Speaker
the wings made it less strange okay so i prefer the original i found it interesting the original for me was like this is so unlike anything else i've heard before that you get you will get my vote and i love wings yeah that's fine i'll tell you my thoughts on it um as you said the drum beat provided a really nice groove to the song and i thought it was
00:17:47
Speaker
groovy and I just you know you want to bop and beat with it and but but the thing is is despite that there's such an obvious groove in the song it still hearkens back to the original in feel just into even in even in tempo and vibe and just the way it sits with you I love the little percussion solo that they port that they put before Paul's vocals come in
00:18:10
Speaker
I thought that was a little throwback to the original because the original has so much percussion going on. Yeah. But then there's just a little little 10 second percussion solo. You touched on a really interesting point where you said you kind of felt like wings wanted to drag it out. And then just as you're kind of getting bored, but just as you kind of need to think, right, just as you're starting to think, where is this going? They put the vocals in and they do the same thing.
00:18:37
Speaker
further on in the song because the first set of vocals is two, I mean I don't know who the singers are in Wings maybe it was Paul and himself or maybe it was Paul and the drummer or whatever but there you go so it was those two. Then the next verse is just Paul on his own and just as you start thinking right the song's dragging on a bit they always change something up and I thought that was really cool. One thing to note is that the original
00:19:04
Speaker
it had that really raw fifties vibe to it. And I enjoyed that a lot. It felt like it was recorded in one room, all the band in one room together. And the dialogue between the so-called lovers felt really authentic. And it probably complimented the fact that this song was taken or it was used in the Dirty Dancing movie, which I thought kind of, it was a really good song. I haven't actually seen the movie.
00:19:32
Speaker
movie people come at me. But I felt appropriate for that movie, knowing what I know about it. It's a romance film or something. But having said all that... It's a classic, Blas. I've heard, so I've heard, yeah. So having said all that... Nothing's good. That's true with a lot of classic movies, isn't it? Having said all of that, there is something
00:19:58
Speaker
that keeps me interested in the wings version. Every time I listen to it I will happily sit there for that minute and a half because I know what's coming and I like the dynamic between him and Linda's vocals. I love when he changes it up for the next verse and it's just him and I yeah so my my vote goes to the cover actually.
00:20:18
Speaker
So another 1-1, right. Just taking those from me. This is great. I love this band. So the originals for me and Cora for you.
Guns N' Roses: Dynamics and Solos
00:20:28
Speaker
So moving on to the third song of the episode, we are doing Knockin' on Heaven's Door, the cover by Guns N' Roses, the original by Bob Dylan. You kick us off with this one.
00:20:40
Speaker
That's an interesting one, right? I found this one the hardest one to choose, and I'll tell you at the end why. So this song has been covered by everyone and their mums, right? Like Eric Clapton did a cover of this, Avril Lavigne did a cover of this, obviously Guns N Roses that we're talking about. So everyone covered that song.
00:21:04
Speaker
which makes you kind of forget that Bob Dylan wrote the song. And I think the reason why so many people covered it is because it's one of those things, it's so simple. I was just gonna say that. That is a one line chorus, any band
00:21:30
Speaker
of any genre could play that song and make it sound acceptable, and make it their own. Some people can make it sound amazing. Clapton did a bit of it as a reggae, he did his own thing.
00:21:47
Speaker
I first got to know that song with the Guns N' Roses version when I was a teenager at school and someone introduced me to Guns N' Roses. I've listened to User Illusion, which is a double album. I think it was released as two separate vinyls at the time, all CDs.
00:22:05
Speaker
released at the same time, so technically like a double album. And just a note for listeners, we're going to be doing a Use Your Illusion album episode over the next couple of months, so stay tuned. Yeah, it's got a few covers in it, isn't it? So it's a phenomenal album, I believe, and they put that song in it and they made it their own. So I'll talk about the Guns N' Roses version first.
00:22:31
Speaker
So what they did to the song is basically arrangements, right? So the melody is the same. You can't change much is what it is. They did a lot more of light and shade.
00:22:47
Speaker
First of all, at that time they are the superstars of rock and roll. There's no band in the world that's making more money than the Guns N' Roses. They're super famous all over the world. They have this massive budget for the album and they have backing vocalists, they have the piano, they have orchestras and some songs in the album. They've got everything they want.
00:23:11
Speaker
And it's a big production and it sounds like big production, but the core of the arrangement is still a band, two guitars, bass, drums, vocals, and Dizzy Reed, who's a piano keyboard player, he plays a big role in that version and the whole album. So as a band, and they did a great job and the production is great, I think what they did best was like,
00:23:40
Speaker
quiet verse loud chorus. Yeah, predictable. But then they take you down for the guitar solo, the first guitar solo. Oh, by the way, that was for me, it was the first song I've learned on guitar. I've learned that song on acoustic guitar and I've learned a little bit of the solo when it was like probably unknown.
00:23:57
Speaker
14, 15 years old, you know, trying to learn guitar. And it was like, oh, super cool. But I thought there was a Guns N' Roses, or someone mentioned Bob Dylan, didn't know him, whatever. So I was listening and trying to play along with record. And the thing was like, okay, you have the way that they bring the dynamics down, and you have losing distorted
00:24:20
Speaker
solo on top of it. The second solo comes when the song is up there. It's really loud, really aggressive and the slash just goes for it. So you've got two epic guitar solos in different dynamics in the same song.
00:24:36
Speaker
And I think that's beautiful. That's one of the things they did best to the song. Now, my opinion on Bob Dylan's version. Well, hold on, hold on. Let me talk about Guns N' Roses. I agree with you completely about the Guns N' Roses. I think that the dynamic changes of the song take you on such a journey that really does. Again, I've got to be critical. I've got to essentially eliminate one or the other.
Bob Dylan vs Guns N' Roses
00:25:07
Speaker
If I could improve this cover, here's how I do it. I feel it's a little too intense and heavy straight off. Even from the opening few seconds, the drums, the snare is being hit really hard. And although they're doing the dynamic stuff and going up and down,
00:25:27
Speaker
It's just right from the start, harmonies on the vocals, drums playing heavy, the first chorus was so loud, Axel in the first chorus doing his, ow, ow, ow, you know that. I kind of feel like
00:25:42
Speaker
You just start off less, you do one vocal line, no harmony, the drums maybe click, or what's it called, click on the snare, the stick. Side stick. Side stick, whatever. No backing vocals, gax, just to sing the chorus line, no. Well, none of that stuff. And then next verse, add the vocal harmonies.
00:26:02
Speaker
Then he goes to the actual snare. Then for the solo, you know, just, I just, I love it when songs start small. The best example, Stairway to Heaven, where you start with nothing and you get to the end and you've got everything. I think what we're having here is a new segment. I'm sorry to interrupt you. You have a new segment, Last Rewrites History. Right. I love this. I'm just saying,
00:26:28
Speaker
It could genuinely be one of the greatest covers of all time. If Guns N' Roses did what I said, then they could have the bass. No. Again, this is all personal. Imagine if Guns N' Roses had listened to you last. They could have made it. They would be a famous band. Well, this is what I'm here for. My services are available. If they listened to you, they would have made so much money.
00:26:58
Speaker
They missed the trick. Yeah, they're now like struggling to pick concert tacks. Yeah, anyway, all that aside, you know, I just felt it was so up and down. I feel like it could have been down, a little more up, a little more up, big up, big solo, you know, whatever. Having said all that, the guitar solos are sublime, unbelievable, and they really make the cover. And we know who plays it, slash, obviously, the middle jam section,
00:27:25
Speaker
wow where Axl sings a line and then out of nowhere you get these fantastic female gospel singers just that I call and response Axl sings they respond incredible. The ending a little bit abrupt I would have kind of had it bigger and have slash sort of shredding over the ending. I don't love the newscast dialogue part in it I don't know if they did that on purpose or if that was a
00:27:54
Speaker
Do you know the part of me where there's a news broadcast or a television, something or other, it kind of takes me out of the moment. But again, we very quickly go back into that middle section with the gospel singers and it is brilliant. Yeah, a really, really, really good cover and iconic for the band who covered it. Almost as famous, you know, I'd say this song, this cover,
00:28:19
Speaker
Some people would categorise it as being as famous as songs like Paradise City and Welcome to the Jungle. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah, it is. It's for some people like me, it's the first Guns N' Roses song. And I think that's fair, yeah. Anyway, Dylan, do you want to kick us off with Dylan's version, the original? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I kind of didn't remember that one because so many covers of that song. So when I started listening to it again, I was like, yeah, I always describe Dylan as a storyteller and I think that's what it is.
00:28:49
Speaker
and that was even more evident in the song because some of his lyrics are quite long, some of his lyrics are quite dense and intellectually challenging and like really clever stuff and this one's so straight to the point like a couple of lines and you go to the chorus, not a couple of lines, you go to the chorus, such a short... Can I interrupt you and just suggest why?
00:29:16
Speaker
This song was written, if I'm not mistaken, as part of a movie soundtrack. Did you know that? It's off the album. Oh my God, I didn't know that because I was about to say something. It's off the album, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, which I believe Bob Dylan wrote for... Sorry, I'm messing my words up. I believe Bob Dylan wrote the whole soundtrack to the album and it was for the movie. It wasn't like his songs were used in the movie. I think he wrote it for the movie. Let me have a photo check.
00:29:46
Speaker
that really leads into what I was about to say, won't believe me when I ever put this on my notes. I'll read from my notes, right? The song is the script from a movie. That's how I put it here. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Like a short, dramatic scene. And the thing with that, with his version of it, it's so dark and so straight to the point when
00:30:16
Speaker
I had the scene in my mind like this cop or sheriff dying so you know take the badge off me. That's crazy bro that's so cool. I saw the scene in my head I came up with a scene in my head whilst listening to it so like wow that's why so I said I could try kind of visualize it as a script
00:30:38
Speaker
you know, those lines. I'm really sorry I interrupted you because if you had said that I might have responded. No, no, no, no, no, don't be sorry. The thing for me is like if you put those lines in a movie without the music, just that guy saying, take this badge off of me, I can't use it anymore. And it's like,
00:31:00
Speaker
I feel like I'm knocking on heaven's door. So it's poetic, but it's something you could believe that someone would be saying, knowing that they are about to die. So I think he really, whatever
00:31:17
Speaker
if the scene was ready before he wrote the song, whatever the scenario was, he really takes you into that. One of the reasons it works is because as a general rule, that sometimes is the negative side of Dylan's albums, which is the production sometimes is so simple, that like everyone who covered his songs seemed to have had better production than him.
00:31:43
Speaker
and which which sometimes upsets me it's like such such great songs and sometimes like yeah just put some drums and bass and guitar and whatever and that was a Felipe Unleashed wasn't it but in this case being really really simple makes you think more it's almost like nothing
00:32:04
Speaker
matters as much as the acoustic guitar and the vocals and with those two things only those two elements only you can picture that scene in your head and it's dark and it's sad it's dramatic yeah and i think it's beautiful like that it's funny you say that because it actually looking at the track listing of the um uh the movie soundtrack it's the the only song after it is called final theme
00:32:30
Speaker
So I'm imagining that knocking on heaven's door is a pre-cut, a penultimate one. I want to watch the movie now. We should. How am I doing this episode without watching
Otis Redding's Soulful Spin
00:32:41
Speaker
it?
00:32:41
Speaker
So my take on the Dylan stuff. With Bob Dylan, as always, the sparsity is nice. The sparseness of what we've always said every time we did these episodes, we've always spoken about Dylan as a poet and a songwriter and a lyricist, not necessarily executing. As an artist, I think it's fair to say that not all of his songs have been executed as good as
00:33:11
Speaker
others could have, but the lyrics, the music in itself, as in the chords behind the song, they're always top notch. And with Dylan, his voice is the king and his words and his poetry. Dylan is the primary in every song he does because you're listening to the poet tell a story.
00:33:38
Speaker
Whereas with Guns N' Roses, the band is the primary. You can even just tell it from the opening, opening 10 seconds of both versions. Villains is just a soft acoustic guitar that's so soft, you can't actually hear how the guitarist is strumming it. Whereas Guns N' Roses, you can hear every note. I think Slash breaks the chord up, doesn't he? Like, arpeggiates it. It's not just the chord. It's like a doing game thing. Something like that.
00:34:05
Speaker
It's just, and then again, that comes down to what you said about the production. So yeah, should we take a vote? Yeah. What's your favourite? Guns N' Roses. I have to say all those beautiful things about Dylan's version.
00:34:22
Speaker
For me, it's like what Guns N' Roses did to the song, it's a really dangerous approach. For me, it's like taking a scene from a Western or rebooting a Western movie and telling the same story as a sci-fi futuristic movie with CGI and still make it work.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, so that's that's why they're brilliant. That's what they do. Yeah, no, I agree as well. I think there's just something very that was the hardest one to choose probably for me.
00:34:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'd agree. Yeah. For me, the next one's harder. So let's move on to the next one. And now viewers, people, you know, YouTube listeners, or this is just a quick break where I'm just going to say to you guys that if you watch, if you listen to our podcast on Apple, on Apple podcasts, you have the option to watch us as a video. So although podcasts is normally audio, unfortunately, I don't think this is implemented for Spotify yet. I think they only do it on Joe Rogan's one because he's special.
00:35:22
Speaker
um but with uh for a lot of other podcasts i don't think you can see a video but with apple podcasts uh you can actually watch us in video form uh and if you're watching us on youtube this doesn't matter but yeah just if you want to see our faces and see what we're talking about um and i said all this because viewers will see that the felipe's background is mr keith richards um and you you might have been sitting there thinking well why is why the rolling stones behind him
00:35:47
Speaker
The fourth song and the final song we're going to do for this episode is chosen by a listener of ours who has suggested that we do I can't get no satisfaction by the Rolling Stones
00:36:01
Speaker
which is the original compared to the cover by Mr. Otis Redding. Now, disclaimer here, massive disclaimer. I screwed up. I sent Felipe the list of songs and I was like, yeah, Otis Redding did the original and the Stones covered it. Didn't do my research. I was shocked with that. Yeah, I didn't do my research. Didn't check. What a shocking information. I didn't know that. When was Otis Redding first recorded? The same year, six to five.
00:36:29
Speaker
Really, like months after. Probably, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so actually my notes are a bit, I'm gonna be winging this because my notes are about how someone, they did this after him and did this and that. But yeah, anyway, to clarify, the original is by The Rolling Stones and the cover is Biotis Redding. So I want to talk about the cover first. Again, my notes are all screwed up. I want to talk about the cover, Biotis Redding. I think the chord progression really suits the soul style
00:36:59
Speaker
Not necessarily more than the rock version, but you know, with Soul and Motown, you often have, you don't often have a lot of variety in the harmonic progression of a song. You might vamp on two chords going back and forward, which is kind of what this song does. I think the placement of the horns and the saxophone and the trumpets in this song, or in Otis' version are really cool. And more than anything, Otis Redding's voice,
Analyzing the Original Stones' Impact
00:37:26
Speaker
is always a soft spot for me. I love his voice. Like he is one of my favorite singers of all time. His voice is the definition of soul. Of soul. And anything he does you've sold me on. So hearing him doing his little, I think I read it somewhere again in the 10 minutes I had between Felipe
00:37:45
Speaker
telling me I was wrong. I actually had a quick look and Otis Redding, there's an interview with him where he says something like, you know, I couldn't even remember the lyrics when we got to the end of the song. So I was just like, when I'm riding in my car and I say, hey, how about that? And he's just scatting towards the end of the song, isn't he? And yeah, I thought that was kind of cool. It's just nice vamp, this nice improvisation part of it.
00:38:08
Speaker
But yeah, do you want to talk now about that? I was surprised by the fact that it doesn't sound that much different to me in a certain way because of the tempo, because there's a drum break in the same part. It's like it's not making an effort to sound extremely different because it doesn't need to because his voice is so unique.
00:38:38
Speaker
Right, but obviously it sounds more like Motown, more like American soul music. But the Stones had a groove with the snare on all four beats, one, two, three, four, going on, which is a very Motown vibe. So even the Stones one is not that rock, it's a bit of a Motown slash. So that's where they came from, isn't it? They had that solo kind of, yeah. They had all of that.
00:39:04
Speaker
uh so that's there um so yeah i do like uh the horns instead of uh just just the guitar riff but the guitar riff is there right the guitar riff is there i call it and it's probably none of uh uh oh these reading songs have anything uh
00:39:21
Speaker
similar to that sort of guitar sound. I might be wrong about this. No, I think you're right. I feel just that he definitely prioritized or brass and horns, I think, are much more priority. I think he just went with the guitar because he was covering the stones. Yeah. I have to keep it in.
00:39:40
Speaker
exactly you can't like if you're gonna do songs like satisfaction or smoke on the water or switch out of mind yeah you can try and eliminate the riff you can even do on keyboards or whatever but if you eliminate the riff which some people have done with some classic songs like that uh it's it's it's
00:40:01
Speaker
Yeah I would say it's too much of a risk, you might risk turning the song into something a bit boring and I think he went for like this is the riff as you know, so you know which song it is straight away but this is a voice that you love singing that song and if he released on the same year that was a really clever move.
00:40:20
Speaker
do you know what they did that in the 50s and 60s often you'd have Elvis covering Simon and Garfunkel a few months after and Bob Dylan doing a Hendrix didn't he cover Watchtower like a few about a year yeah yeah he definitely covered Beatles like straight away yeah I love that just as an aside I do love that everyone in that
00:40:40
Speaker
everyone in those 60s you know we're just covering each other's songs doing it are they here on the radio screw i want to do that song it's great isn't it yeah yeah it's great and i think it's like why not having uh many different versions of the same song you know it's like it's pick and choose your favorite yeah and yeah and uh so yeah i was quite surprised uh in a good way because he didn't know his version and i love his voice say well yes i know you love him as well he's great and um
00:41:05
Speaker
And I thought, yeah, surprise me. And I think he did in such an enjoyable way. He sounds like he's just having fun. Yeah. He sounds like you wouldn't imagine that I would sing this song. So here I am doing this song. And it's just really it's good fun. It's for me as good as the original. OK, so what are your thoughts on the original? Right. Well, that's it. I mean, I can't think of
00:41:34
Speaker
A riff, again, first riff I've learned on guitar, so not the first, first song was not going to heaven's door, and first riff I've learned was that one's three notes. Simple, straight to the point, effective, like that riff is
00:41:51
Speaker
is rock and roll, that riff on its own. And his spirit, Keith Richards, is almost sloppy. It's like, you feel like the rhythm is not going to kind of work and it works. The bass line at the beginning... It's like a counter rhythm. It's great, isn't it?
00:42:10
Speaker
And it's almost like makes no sense, but it works. It's like, I don't know, that bass line is so odd and it matches. And you have Charlie Watts being Charlie Watts, like you guys go nuts. I'll be here keeping the beat. Cause if I don't do this, that's too crazy. It goes too crazy. And it's just there, you know, holding the band together like a metronome start to finish. And what I really love about the, the,
00:42:38
Speaker
recording is Mick Jagger's voice. It sounds so sarcastic all the way and it's like I'm so fed up with this, nothing works for me. Well in a point where they're actually doing well or this song actually made them loads of money and fame and you know everything that comes with it and
00:43:03
Speaker
but it's always like someone who's frustrated nothing works for them is upset with everything like even the guy on the radio trying to sell you something you just don't want to hear about it and it's like oh the one this or the one that nothing works you know i'm not happy and you you become you you get so much satisfaction from a song that says i can't get no satisfaction and it's like it's so much fun to listen to and i think mix vocals are
00:43:32
Speaker
are just fun. They have the spirit of rock music, you know, through and through. And I love it. Big fan. Your opinion on that?
00:43:47
Speaker
It's just an iconic rock song, isn't it? And because of that, and because of what you told me 15 minutes before we start recording, my opinion's completely changed.
Final Votes and Rock Influence
00:43:56
Speaker
Not my opinion, my vote has completely changed. So, you know, let's do the votes, right? I'll start off, my vote goes for the original, the Rolling Stones, because had it been the other way round, I'd have gone with Otis Redding's version, because I think it was really cool
00:44:17
Speaker
Really, you know, he got the horns. Listen, it doesn't matter because it's not the original. I need to deal with the facts. Because now I know what I know. For them to have taken that very simple melody and turn it into an iconic guitar riff.
00:44:35
Speaker
and have that bass doing a counter rhythm. And as you've said with all the lyrics talking about, you know, when life gets you down, you know, I just can't get it anymore. Can't get no satisfaction. They were quite instrumental in pushing lyrics. You know, there's a massive argument that they are the owners of the title for the first heavy metal lyrics with Painted Black.
00:44:58
Speaker
I see a red dawn, I want it painted black. There's an argument, a massive argument by metal critics and historians that those are the first heavy metal lyrics because it's just dark. That song is really dark. It's really sad. They were number one, didn't they? Yeah, I think they were number one. So they have this history of making lyrics and just like we did with The Who on the last episode where they're
00:45:19
Speaker
saying to people, you know, life isn't always great. Life does suck sometimes. It's not all about driving in your car with your love and going to the cinema and the Super Bowl and the mall and doing this and doing that, you know, love songs here and there. Life does suck sometimes and we need to acknowledge it. And so I think for all of those together, the iconic riff, the counter rhythm that the bass plays to match that riff, but yet it never doesn't feel like it matches and the lyrics and what that song
00:45:49
Speaker
stands for. I think it was literally, in my opinion, the bridge between rock and roll, what as we know it, you know, your Elvis's, your Chuck Berry's, and rock music. We know what the Stones and the Beatles did for pop, let's kind of push that aside in terms of rock music.
00:46:09
Speaker
We're still finding our way and the stones with this song kind of just really hammering it home, keeping a rock and roll vibe, keeping an element of bluesiness to it, not in the progression, but just in the feel, in the looseness of it. Like you said, Keith Richards is almost sloppy, but then hitting with a really iconic guitar riff makes it for me. The original has to take the vote this time. What about you?
00:46:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I gave the vote to this tone as well. But like, that was a really close one. Yeah, that was the closest one. Same thing. I mean, almost as close for me as knocking on heaven's door. This has been a tough episode lives. I feel like some of the others, you know, like when we do. Oh, yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
What do I want to say about this? That's my philosophical moment at the podcast. It happens from time to time. We live in a world where everyone has to pick a side.
00:47:08
Speaker
Is it red or blue? Is it like cocoa Pepsi? Is it like coffee or tea? Left-wing, right-wing. We're forced to decide on it. It's like there's no shades of anything. I feel like that. Or the people selling you ideas and products and everything, they don't want you to see any shades between anything. It's like this is right, everything else is wrong.
00:47:38
Speaker
And worse, people who don't have the same taste of me or people who don't have the same visions as me, I just don't like them. I don't want them in my life. I hate them. The fun thing about doing an episode like this, I would never ever vote for those songs if you didn't ask me to.
00:47:58
Speaker
Yeah, because it's like, you know what, I like listening to a different take on something that I like. And it might be a clear case of now that I actually prefer the original or actually prefer the cover. But most of most of those cases like like both. Can I just like both? Can I can I see something positive and negative on both of them? And I think like one of so I think what we do with the episodes like
00:48:22
Speaker
I don't expect anyone to have the same opinions as me or you and or to, you know, clash for, you know, and get into an argument for, oh, you know, this has to be the best version of it. Our podcast is not about that, right? It's all about opinion. Well, this is an opinion. Yeah. And if we give us or we give you our opinion about songs,
00:48:50
Speaker
Then it's like, oh, wait a minute. I don't agree with that. Cool. Now we're talking about music. That's the whole point. Let's talk about music. If the subject is going to be what's your favorite, that's fine. That's just another great excuse to get into a conversation about the best subject in the whole world, which is music. That's what it is.
00:49:12
Speaker
Beautiful stuff, man. Lovely. I couldn't put it any better myself. And just to add to that, I'll just say I completely agree with you. This podcast, we are all about how music makes us feel, what we think about it, how lyrics make us feel, and just overall, you know, this podcast. For new listeners who haven't heard the story, myself and Felipe, when we're on tour,
00:49:32
Speaker
We'd always just talk about an album. Oh, have you listened to this one? Yeah. What did you think? Oh, I loved it. Yeah. My favorite song is this one. Really? That's your favorite song. I didn't really like that one. My one's this one because anyone who we're touring with, we've talked, how many? Four or five bands and artists we've played together.
00:49:47
Speaker
and they've all said you should you guys you should host the show you should do a podcast about this because it's intriguing even just listening to you to debate it and discussing. Some people thought we would get into a fight we were just having a laugh now you're around this
Podcast Purpose and Engagement
00:50:01
Speaker
is better. I remember the best one which we'll talk about on another episode will be was Felipe still yeah Felipe wrongly
00:50:09
Speaker
believes that Black Sabbath are a hard rock band and I think you can class them as heavy metal. And we were in the car one day in the tour van just being like, how can you say they're heavy metal lads? Use your ears, they're hard rock. It's just the artist we were playing with, he thought we were just, he thought, guys, please calm down. And we're like, oh no, mate, don't worry. Like, we just, we talk like this every day.
00:50:34
Speaker
because listen ultimately we are so passionate about music we love what we listen to we love the bands that we love and yeah it just thought it's a great place to come and discuss it with you guys as well. Anything else? Yeah be part of a conversation that we you know we uh let us have an argument with you about our favorite song or let us have an argument on your behalf so you submit yeah so you submit an opinion it's like that arrested development thing isn't it why should you be arrested for a crime that someone else
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, why should you get into an argument about your own opinion? It's like, yeah, I'm going to argue people to defend someone else's opinion. But anyway, just like, you know, bring your opinions and what happens with this sort of episodes is like when people say, oh, I love this version of it and they're like, wow.
00:51:22
Speaker
I never heard of it. And sometimes it's not going to be my favorite, but I'm really glad to listen to new stuff. And then that's a big part of what we do. We try to keep listening to rock music and finding different perspectives on the subject of rock music. There you go.
00:51:41
Speaker
So as usual, the playlist for this episode will be in the show notes below. So you can listen to both the cover and the original. And whilst you're there, Apple and Spotify users, scroll a little further down and go and give us a rating. Go and give us a review. Take 30 seconds of your time, but it does us the world of good. Because the more you guys review and say lovely words about us, the higher we go up in the charts.
00:52:02
Speaker
and we're seen by more people and so that would be hugely appreciated. YouTube viewers please hit like, subscribe so you don't miss out on an episode and please be sure to share us with anyone else you think would like our content and like the episodes we do. We're an independent podcast you know we do all of our own backs and we do it because we absolutely as you've heard in the last five minute passionate conversation we love what we do, we love that
Closing Remarks and Feedback Request
00:52:27
Speaker
we're musicians, we love that music is a massive part of our lives
00:52:30
Speaker
and we love more than anything talking about it so thank you for joining us on another episode we want to know you make sure you let us know in the comments what your favorite versions of each of these four songs are and get involved in the discussion below so thanks again for joining yeah thanks a lot for being with us again you know like subscribing all that stuff they do on the internet you know stay tuned we're here
00:52:55
Speaker
every other week for now. Maybe more in the future. Thanks a lot guys. As I normally say, I need to get used to say it every time and I can't forget. What comes first?
00:53:14
Speaker
Keep on rocking everyone, and don't do anything I wouldn't do. You might not believe it guys, but when he drums, he's fantastic. He doesn't miss or forget anything. He's brilliant. He's on it with the devil. He knows all the films. Say this on a daily basis, but I forget to say on the podcast. I'll say it again. Keep on rocking. Keep on rocking everyone, and do not do anything I wouldn't do.
00:53:39
Speaker
And as usual, take care guys, and long live Rock and Roll.